All or Nothing: Requiem — Guild Wars 2 Forums

All or Nothing: Requiem

edited January 30, 2019 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

I really enjoyed Rytlock's story today.

What did you think of the tale?

Note: There is a very thoughtful thread on this subject in the Lore Subforum, but I believe having this also available is a good thing, as not everyone would think to/choose to go to the Lore Subforum to share their thoughts, and we'd really like to read them!

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager: ArenaNet
Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live

Tagged:
<1

Comments

  • Intriguing! Nice to see a character more fleshed out through their thoughts and getting to learn their unspoken motivations and feelings.

    I wonder what's here.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Was good to get some more insight on the character. Word limits in LS releases are such a shame, I'd love to have that kind of experience ingame too.

    Logging out forever.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So, the Commander crying is now canon, huh? Would have thought s/he would have hardened up after the first 1000 NPCs were killed off. Where are Tybalt's tears, you kitten?

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    I really enjoyed Rytlock's story today.

    What did you think of the tale?

    It was pretty amazing, too bad that the mystery of how he got Sohothin was told in such a short form... Would have been so much better as a Novel, or some sort of in-game content like a Fractal or something.

    Other than that it was really nice... He has CUBS!!

  • TheOrlyFactor.8341TheOrlyFactor.8341 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    I really enjoyed Rytlock's story today.

    What did you think of the tale?

    Gonna copy/paste the post I made in the Lore section here because I'm too lazy to type it all out again. :P

    @TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:
    I thought it was a well-told story. It really doesn't make me more sympathetic towards Rytlock though. If anything, it's made me less so. For all this talk about warbands and families and having cubs, he didn't (and in my opinion still doesn't) act like someone who has their priorities straight. It was all about him and his life. To Hell with everyone else. He talks about how important Destiny's Edge was to him, how he was loyal to them, how they were his warband/family yet it was him who decided to dissolve them and (from my perspective) abandon them in LWS3.1. It was him who decided to peace out and form Dragon's Watch with the Commander. He flees and retreats at actual failure rather than picking himself back up and pushing on, rather than check on those who managed to survive the confrontation with Mordremoth. I don't find that respectable in fictional characters or in real life.

    Rytlock being bullied as a cub is no excuse or justification for his behavior either. Instead of rising above his experiences, he let them control him. In an ironic twist, he kind of became a bully himself in the process, from my perspective. Him holding onto that tough guy shtick even at the end of the story is also concerning as I certainly think that's a harmful social byproduct of him being bullied. By making it about him, by having this tough guy/gruff facade up all the time, he hurt everyone around him: Destiny's Edge, Dragon's Watch, his cubs, etc.

    Sure, he's admitting now that the whole thing with Balthazar was his fault but many of us know what they say about hindsight. The metaphorical horse is already out of the barn. Why wasn't he thinking of his cubs or Destiny's Edge - his supposed warband at the time - when he went after Sohothin, when he was stomping around the Mists trying to find that dumb sword and reignite it? (This is meant to be a rhetorical question, by the way. It's stated several times in the story why he wasn't thinking about anything or anyone else. I even mentioned why a few times in my own post.)

    If stories - good stories at that - are supposed to entice a reaction from the reader, then I give kudos to whoever wrote this because it did just that. I didn't like Rytlock before this story and I hate him even more now after reading this.

    Hopefully the next two stories will be just as good considering they're also for characters I don't care for.

    ( For those of you who are in the pro-Rytlock camp who happen to read this and want to try to change my mind, don't. I don't mind discussing things I may have missed/overlooked in this story but my negative opinion and loathing for Rytlock as a character won't be changing. Save your keystrokes and time. )

    While the game has issues, the absolute worst thing about Guild Wars 2 has less to do with the game itself and everything to do with the community.
    Asura fanatic.
    World's largest Zojja fan.
    Illconceived Was Na fanboy.

  • Well, that was enlightening. Looking forward to the other two.

    One minor gripe, though: I think I would have preferred to have the whole thing presented as one continuous document instead of having to click to a new page every few paragraphs. Or at least not have the one instance of 'Balthazar' link to further ahead in the story, which then looped back before that part came up again anyways.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    Gaile - maybe merge with https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67300/thoughts-on-all-or-nothing-requiem-spoilers#latest

    To repeat my comment there until then - yes much improved on the rubbish short stories we once had which were embarrassing. These were much better, with an improved format. The only downside was the poor choice of artwork showing an image that looked absolutely nothing like Rytlock or expressive towards his character. I'm all for community artwork and some out there are exceptional, but this didn't fit at all.

    More of these lore stories in the same format, in the same quality would work well in expanding the World - something the game really would benefit from (as long as they stay canon and not dismissed later). I've come to realise not everything can be fitted into the game and that is fine. Other games expand the lore and stories across other media and as long as they are well written and compliment the existing lore, then more is good.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Fraghound.5730Fraghound.5730 Member ✭✭✭

    I utterly adore it. I'm a huge fan of all the different short stories Anet has given us over the years and I really, really enjoyed this one. I can't wait for the other two parts!

  • Sojourner.4621Sojourner.4621 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    @TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    I really enjoyed Rytlock's story today.

    What did you think of the tale?

    Gonna copy/paste the post I made in the Lore section here because I'm too lazy to type it all out again. :P

    @TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:
    I thought it was a well-told story. It really doesn't make me more sympathetic towards Rytlock though. If anything, it's made me less so. For all this talk about warbands and families and having cubs, he didn't (and in my opinion still doesn't) act like someone who has their priorities straight. It was all about him and his life. To Hell with everyone else. He talks about how important Destiny's Edge was to him, how he was loyal to them, how they were his warband/family yet it was him who decided to dissolve them and (from my perspective) abandon them in LWS3.1. It was him who decided to peace out and form Dragon's Watch with the Commander. He flees and retreats at actual failure rather than picking himself back up and pushing on, rather than check on those who managed to survive the confrontation with Mordremoth. I don't find that respectable in fictional characters or in real life.

    Rytlock being bullied as a cub is no excuse or justification for his behavior either. Instead of rising above his experiences, he let them control him. In an ironic twist, he kind of became a bully himself in the process, from my perspective. Him holding onto that tough guy shtick even at the end of the story is also concerning as I certainly think that's a harmful social byproduct of him being bullied. By making it about him, by having this tough guy/gruff facade up all the time, he hurt everyone around him: Destiny's Edge, Dragon's Watch, his cubs, etc.

    Sure, he's admitting now that the whole thing with Balthazar was his fault but many of us know what they say about hindsight. The metaphorical horse is already out of the barn. Why wasn't he thinking of his cubs or Destiny's Edge - his supposed warband at the time - when he went after Sohothin, when he was stomping around the Mists trying to find that dumb sword and reignite it? (This is meant to be a rhetorical question, by the way. It's stated several times in the story why he wasn't thinking about anything or anyone else. I even mentioned why a few times in my own post.)

    If stories - good stories at that - are supposed to entice a reaction from the reader, then I give kudos to whoever wrote this because it did just that. I didn't like Rytlock before this story and I hate him even more now after reading this.

    Hopefully the next two stories will be just as good considering they're also for characters I don't care for.

    ( For those of you who are in the pro-Rytlock camp who happen to read this and want to try to change my mind, don't. I don't mind discussing things I may have missed/overlooked in this story but my negative opinion and loathing for Rytlock as a character won't be changing. Save your keystrokes and time. )

    It's fine to dislike Rytlock. I think you can be understanding and sympathetic towards a character, however, without necessarily liking them. Rytlock wasn't raised the way you were raised or I was raised. Charr values are not Human values, and you can't look at them that way. I am sympathetic towards Rytlock from the perspective of how he was raised, and glad that Rytlock is showing that despite everything he actually does have the ability to evolve and mature as a character. That doesn't mean I like who he is, and certainly not who he was. Rytlock very much has always been a selfish character, and this story reinforces that. I am certainly interested to see how he evolves as a character from here, now that he has had a bit of an epiphany about himself. The story did a good job of instilling that imo. Just have to see if it sticks. The story also provided some interesting insights that were implied but not necessarily outright stated about charr culture as well.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    Its a very nice bit of exposition.

    If only I could experience these in game. Anything that makes me go onto a website instead of experience in the game, I just disassociate from the material. Current Events team, go!

    Looking forward to the rest.

  • @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    If only I could experience these in game. Anything that makes me go onto a website instead of experience in the game, I just disassociate from the material.

    Would you prefer no lore if there wasn't time to add it to the game? Or prefer at least this, rather than nothing?
    What about if it were read (without cutscenes) by the voice actor?
    What if the same exposition was available in game, via a book or 'talking' to the character (without voice)?

    I'm torn. I prefer to experience things in game. However, if it's just text, I don't feel more immersed by clicking through dialogue screens.
    So I prefer some lore rather than none.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would. But someone wrote it so its there now.
    Something in the game would be preferred even without voice acting like they did with Caithe in December.

    Having to interact with something out of the game is infinitely less immersive than being in the game, no matter how anyone tries to reason it.

  • @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    Having to interact with something out of the game is infinitely less immersive than being in the game, no matter how anyone tries to reason it.

    "Immersion" is not a matter of reason; it's an emotional connection and I'm glad that clicking on books works for others. I hope you can understand that it does nothing for some players, including myself. If anything, it reminds me that I'm playing a game.

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    I would. But someone wrote it so its there now.

    My question was about the preferences you have in the future, if it turns out that ANet has more stories to tell and not enough time to include them as a side story (let alone a main one).

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Love the idea, and the story is great.
    I hope we get more of these down the road not just these three characters as I feel I will be missing them very much once these three have told their tale.
    Although the artwork looks a little weird for me, Rytlock has a more mousy feel to me over cat. But the story was great to show his thought process and how he took the loss at first to coming and understanding on others actions.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    I think it was really great, and I hope the Marketing and Narrative Teams will keep it up. Plus Alex Kain, that wrote Rytlock's story, well done!
    I really liked it's like a chapter from a book, not like dry dialogues. Books stir our imagination, and it gives us more room to imagine the environment, characters and what they feel, what Aurene's death has caused to them, that it made them share with their stories they tried to hide since forever.

    It was absolutely worth to prepare this series, and I don't even know what Zafirah and Caithe will bring, but Rytlock's story expands this character to a new level, puts him in a different angle. So I cannot wait for Caithe's and Zafirah's stories.

    For Caithe I hope she will tell about her relation to the Dream, who caused her to steal the Egg - was it the Dream/the Nightmare/Mordremoth/someone else? It's still not clear so I hope I'll get an answer to that. :)
    For Zafirah I hope she will give more context to Balthazar - why did she follow him, why his words are so meaningful for her? How Balthazar was before he went rogue? And maybe she will bring some insight to the relationship that Balthazar and Lyssa had - why did she give him the Mirror, and did she help him to escape? He didn't curse Lyssa when he was dying, so I'm really interested if their relationship was really close, or maybe they were just best friends, and Lyssa was FORCED to join the other Gods, because she would have been imprisoned as well.

    So those two stories can be really huge. I think they will be much more deep and mindblowing than that Rytlock has cubs. :)

  • Who is Rytlock? Oh, wait...is he the tough-talking guy who does very little damage to the enemy and flees from battle every 7 seconds to be near me? Hehe, yeah...that guy is worthless! If he were a regular player he would be instantaneously kick from even the worst PUG teams! :D

    Why would I be interested in the story of a guy like that?

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    Rytlock just look like a mouse/rat seriously... xD that's the main issue with the fact you have to click on the blue text to change page, I haven't figured that at the beginning! Would be better to put all of them on the same page, it's more clear! Apart that the story I guess is okay... dunno.

    But definitely a good source of lore, thanks for that! Waiting impatiently for Caithe, Zaphirah, and maybe Taimi, Gorrik? :)
    Gorrik should have many things in mind just like blish, they left Inquest, passed some times with Taimi and all the crew, maybe he has changed. Also it's pretty strange that Gorrik/Blish don't know R3D-RCR, since they were working in the same complex.

    +++Number ONE fan of I.N.Q.U.E.S.T, don't worry, I'm chaotic-neutral. I like baddies in general. +++

  • I felt so bored reading it ... nothing really interesting there honestly. A website "wall" of text. I didn't feel anything special reading it ...

  • @perilisk.1874 said:
    So, the Commander crying is now canon, huh? Would have thought s/he would have hardened up after the first 1000 NPCs were killed off. Where are Tybalt's tears, you kitten?

    I have to disagree ......and I'll bring as example WWII
    It gave birth to a generation of God like Titans of Steel who fought killed loved and built. While rest of Europe was under submission to kitten within days they fought died like heroes and other like dogs but they fought until achieved victory.
    I seen old men who lost their entire families to this monster but they kept fighting ,and every year on the day we celebrate victory thousands of grandfathers gather to remember to give a tribute of memory to those who still lay the in ground ...to their family members friends of comrades that this monster devoured.....
    And I never seen a more sincere tears of grief from some one they been throw hell and returned home but still had more compassion for humans then modern people even in comparison to generation after war not to mention sociopath generation of today ....

    I think the Rytlock story was amazing very interesting emotional development for character.
    Defiantly want more of that and hope for some big sacrifice from him in next Season

  • brenda.9723brenda.9723 Member ✭✭✭

    I really liked it. I prefer to have more lore like this. In my opinion it is a good choice to have some content between the two episodes, especially when the end is a very emotional clifhanger. I like that it gives some interesting backstory, without continuing the story too much. While I would have liked to see this in-game; I understand that creating a scene in game (with voiceacting and stuff) is way more expensive then this, so getting this all in game would be too much to ask for. Also: Thanks for breaking it up into smaller parts, that makes it more easily to read :).

  • Cerioth.7062Cerioth.7062 Member ✭✭✭

    I loved it. I could hear Rytlock's voice in my head as I read through it, and I could really feel for him and empathize with him. He has always been my favourite character, ever since I made my little charr ranger and started this game.

    I can't wait for more of these and this format is amazing. It's not realistic to expect devs to be able to deliver all this ingame - I think people who struggle with this format are just lacking imagination or are people who dont generally enjoy reading. I am very happy with the answers and depth we got - Rytlock is a great character.

  • Donari.5237Donari.5237 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm very happy to have some real lore answers. Players have been asking for a very long time how the heck Rytlock ended up with Sohothin. I've been in the camp of website stories > no stories (and much more info can be packed into a website story), so I'm pleased with this release and excited for the next two entries.

    Feedback on presentation:
    Rytlock art weird as others have noted. But otoh I didn't notice it until I saw others point it out, somehow my eye didn't focus in on the art even though normally I pay attention to these things.
    Hyperlinks not obvious to me. I read the first page, it seemed to conclude, I told my friends "well, that was short." Then said friends mentioned the tangents you could take and I thought to mouse over the blue text, ahah! A link! In retrospect it's obvious that colored text is probably clickable but it did take me a moment, since it just looked like Rytlock's self-loathing was set in bold.
    Those tangents looped oddly. I ended up seeing the same blocks of text a few times. At one point I wanted to go back a page and clicked the big left < and found myself back at the three journals page. So navigation is somewhat strange, but I'm not sure what would fix it to make a smooth flow without missing any of the text.

  • zeldara.4127zeldara.4127 Member ✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    I liked it. Adds a bit more depth to or at least understanding of the character. Not that I like Rytlock anymore as a person knowing this. Perhaps even less, as I never quite got how selfish he was, the given reason/origin of it coming into expression isn't an excuse for it. But it is an explanation and those help put things in perspective. And atleast he seems to understand himself finally he's a bit of a >censored into kitten<. I do like him more as a character due to understanding him more. So yeah I think this written extra is a nice bonus. Though like many others I would have preferred to have gotten (part of) this info in game somehow. Without this thread I would not even have seen it. But website extra info > no lore info

  • @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    What did you think of the tale?

    I really missed these background stories and would certainly like **more ** of them to flesh out and support the in-game content !!!

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭

    Such a good read ^^

    And finally some actual backstory answering questions we've wanted answers to for many years :D
    Very well done although it would be nice if these kinds of things happened in the game itself.

    As some keep asking.. we really do need some kind of lorebook library system in the game so we can account bind books and letters of importance etc and read them whenever we like.
    As much as I enjoyed Rytlocks story here I can't promise I'll read the others.. not because I don't want to.. I do, but i'll probably forget about them and end up missing them :(

    That wouldn't happen if they were put into the game as readable diaries we could collect.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think it's definitely a good source of lore for any topic, if they don't have enough time to add it within maps, writers can develop several mysterious points / dead end of stories using those short-tales. A good thing maybe, will see.

    +++Number ONE fan of I.N.Q.U.E.S.T, don't worry, I'm chaotic-neutral. I like baddies in general. +++

  • @Arden.7480 said:

    @Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:
    I felt so bored reading it ... nothing really interesting there honestly. A website "wall" of text. I didn't feel anything special reading it ...

    Then you haven't read Edge of Destiny. This "wall of text" resolves the whole Rytlock's and Logan's plot from the book - Rytlock actually tells how he got Sohothin, and hearing Logan that says "Your sword" is just so powerful! If you'd read the book, you would be really amazed by this line, because it's just everything! Also it gives more dialogues from the Mists that he had with Balthazar. It's just a massive lore bomb. Seeing that as a chapter from a book is just soo much better, it's such a great idea.

    actually i did :) but maybe I just don't like the way the last episode has been handled by the narrative team ^^

  • Endless Soul.5178Endless Soul.5178 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I thoroughly enjoyed it. At last we finally know how Rytlock found Sohothin. I'm also fine with it not being in-game. While I would have preferred it, I can understand the reasons why it isn't.

    I'm looking forward to more of these!

    Asura characters: Zerina | Myndee | Bekka | Akee | Feyyt | Nuumy | Tylee | Rissa | Jaxxi | Sixx | Claara | Conii | Jymm | Synn

    Your skin will wrinkle and your youth will fade but your soul is endless

  • edited January 30, 2019

    Folks interested in additional conversation or perhaps different viewpoints about this story might want to check out or join a lively discussion in the Lore Subforum!

    Gaile Gray
    Communications Manager: ArenaNet
    Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    I'm surprised he didn't mention how soft his fur is though. I mean, we're all thinking it

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    I'm surprised he didn't mention how soft his fur is though. I mean, we're all thinking it

    No point in bringing up what we already know, honestly. He kows that we know how soft that fur of his is.

  • I just wanted to log on here and say THANK YOU to the people who brought us this story, Alex Kain and I'm sure many other talented people working at Arenanet.
    It was fantastic! Perhaps the format could use some tweaking (like the Balthazaar link loop thing that was a bit odd) but other than that minor nitpick I LOVED it. I'm so happy to see Rytlock get some much-deserved characterization! Not to mention the other themes and story lines this shed light on.
    I look forward to the next two stories.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    Will never cry for aurene and never considered her as our daughter, it's mind parasitism. We only used her as a weapon. Whereas Tybalt was always a great pal, he clearly deserved some tears. Joko was awesome too, playing with us. Okay with scarlet but a bit cliché. Agent Batanga is very nice too.

    +++Number ONE fan of I.N.Q.U.E.S.T, don't worry, I'm chaotic-neutral. I like baddies in general. +++

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    So.. When is Master splintugh i mean Ratlocughhh Rytlock, yes Rytlock. When is Rytlock gonna start telling kitten dad jokes?

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    @hugo.4705 said:
    Will never cry for aurene and never considered her as our daughter, it's mind parasitism. We only used her as a weapon. Whereas Tybalt was always a great pal, he clearly deserved some tears. Joko was awesome too, playing with us. Okay with scarlet but a bit cliché. Agent Batanga is very nice too.

    Precisely. Aurene was never anything more than a tool to be used for the Commander (or at best a begrudging pet) and rarely did the story establish the connection as anything more. Caithe had more of that familial bond although it wasn't overly explored. By the time she "mind melded" with Aurene in ep5, it was lost almost immediately after and it lost any real impact.

    Whilst I liked the 'thought train', I would have preferred that "daughter" line to have been left out given it didn't fit at all

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @zealex.9410 said:
    So.. When is Master splintugh i mean Ratlocughhh Rytlock, yes Rytlock. When is Rytlock gonna start telling kitten dad jokes?

    You asked for it:

    Rytlock: "Our cat is getting old, guess I will start calling him grandPAW"

    (dodges the rotten tomatoes)

  • thanks for explaining why rytlock is a biggity ole bish. very insightful. I have 2 requests (listed in order of importance)

    1) can we pls get a tears of runtlock themed glider and mini-pet in the 💎 store?

    2) can you actually start working on a balance patch now?

    Thanks!

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:
    Will never cry for aurene and never considered her as our daughter, it's mind parasitism. We only used her as a weapon. Whereas Tybalt was always a great pal, he clearly deserved some tears. Joko was awesome too, playing with us. Okay with scarlet but a bit cliché. Agent Batanga is very nice too.

    Precisely. Aurene was never anything more than a tool to be used for the Commander (or at best a begrudging pet) and rarely did the story establish the connection as anything more. Caithe had more of that familial bond although it wasn't overly explored. By the time she "mind melded" with Aurene in ep5, it was lost almost immediately after and it lost any real impact.

    Whilst I liked the 'thought train', I would have preferred that "daughter" line to have been left out given it didn't fit at all

    What, don't you remember that one time we carried her egg around for five minutes and then dropped her off at Eggcare, or the time we showed up for her hatching, and left her in the care of Caithe, or the time we played hide and seek a little and she failed to be of any help in fighting oozes and a boss, and then we left? I guess we also got to say hi a sec while being murdered, and we teamed up for a big fight. Oh, and who can forget the time she ate a dude?

    Seriously, the Commander is like the worst dragon parent ever. At best, the PC treats Aurene as a powerful but serially absent guildmate.

  • This feels really out of character for Rytlock, especially when it comes to cubs. There's been a decade worth of content related to that charr and the whole 'family' business was never a concern for the character. I'm not even going to read Caithe's... I'd rather avoid another assassination of character.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RandomWolf.3986 said:
    This feels really out of character for Rytlock, especially when it comes to cubs. There's been a decade worth of content related to that charr and the whole 'family' business was never a concern for the character. I'm not even going to read Caithe's... I'd rather avoid another assassination of character.

    It states why its wasnt a "concern" to the character, why it still largely isnt.

  • I don't have much to say except THANK YOU! I really enjoyed the writing and love that you guys are adding to the characters in this way. I don't always have time to game but reading is more often an option.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • It was great to read about Rytlock's past and how he got hold of Sohothin, but the part about his cubs was a little out of the blue imho.

  • Sojourner.4621Sojourner.4621 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tom Abernathy II.5241 said:

    @Sojourner.4621 said:

    @TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    I really enjoyed Rytlock's story today.

    What did you think of the tale?

    Gonna copy/paste the post I made in the Lore section here because I'm too lazy to type it all out again. :P

    @TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:
    I thought it was a well-told story. It really doesn't make me more sympathetic towards Rytlock though. If anything, it's made me less so. For all this talk about warbands and families and having cubs, he didn't (and in my opinion still doesn't) act like someone who has their priorities straight. It was all about him and his life. To Hell with everyone else. He talks about how important Destiny's Edge was to him, how he was loyal to them, how they were his warband/family yet it was him who decided to dissolve them and (from my perspective) abandon them in LWS3.1. It was him who decided to peace out and form Dragon's Watch with the Commander. He flees and retreats at actual failure rather than picking himself back up and pushing on, rather than check on those who managed to survive the confrontation with Mordremoth. I don't find that respectable in fictional characters or in real life.

    Rytlock being bullied as a cub is no excuse or justification for his behavior either. Instead of rising above his experiences, he let them control him. In an ironic twist, he kind of became a bully himself in the process, from my perspective. Him holding onto that tough guy shtick even at the end of the story is also concerning as I certainly think that's a harmful social byproduct of him being bullied. By making it about him, by having this tough guy/gruff facade up all the time, he hurt everyone around him: Destiny's Edge, Dragon's Watch, his cubs, etc.

    Sure, he's admitting now that the whole thing with Balthazar was his fault but many of us know what they say about hindsight. The metaphorical horse is already out of the barn. Why wasn't he thinking of his cubs or Destiny's Edge - his supposed warband at the time - when he went after Sohothin, when he was stomping around the Mists trying to find that dumb sword and reignite it? (This is meant to be a rhetorical question, by the way. It's stated several times in the story why he wasn't thinking about anything or anyone else. I even mentioned why a few times in my own post.)

    If stories - good stories at that - are supposed to entice a reaction from the reader, then I give kudos to whoever wrote this because it did just that. I didn't like Rytlock before this story and I hate him even more now after reading this.

    Hopefully the next two stories will be just as good considering they're also for characters I don't care for.

    ( For those of you who are in the pro-Rytlock camp who happen to read this and want to try to change my mind, don't. I don't mind discussing things I may have missed/overlooked in this story but my negative opinion and loathing for Rytlock as a character won't be changing. Save your keystrokes and time. )

    It's fine to dislike Rytlock. I think you can be understanding and sympathetic towards a character, however, without necessarily liking them. Rytlock wasn't raised the way you were raised or I was raised. Charr values are not Human values, and you can't look at them that way. I am sympathetic towards Rytlock from the perspective of how he was raised, and glad that Rytlock is showing that despite everything he actually does have the ability to evolve and mature as a character. That doesn't mean I like who he is, and certainly not who he was. Rytlock very much has always been a selfish character, and this story reinforces that. I am certainly interested to see how he evolves as a character from here, now that he has had a bit of an epiphany about himself. The story did a good job of instilling that imo. Just have to see if it sticks. The story also provided some interesting insights that were implied but not necessarily outright stated about charr culture as well.

    Yeah, keep in mind that, from our POV at least, exploring a character doesn't necessarily mean getting you to like them more. In fact, some of the time it definitely doesn't. Our philosophy on storytelling is that it's driven by character and conflict, and by conflicts WITHIN characters: every character has something fundamental they want, and something they need, and the distance between the two of those things provides the road map of how they get from the first to the second. Sometimes they don't, of course, and that's tragic--but also, hopefully, moving. What we want is for you to care, good or bad.

    The comments regarding Rytlock and his selfishness are well-taken; historically he's been pretty self-involved. In talking about him, our Narrative team has also come to feel that that cynical affect is also covering up some other, more complicated stuff, some of which Alex explores in the Twine piece. We actually jumped off of the Behind the Voice video Rubi did with Steve Blum,

    in which he talked about how he can relate to Rytlock because he was small and got bullied growing up too, just like Rytlock. We thought that was a marvelous insight and window we could enter to start exploring Rytlock's psychology more deeply than we had before. For us, the contrast between the huge warrior Rytlock is and the small, vulnerable, picked-on cub he feels like inside was the perfect contrast to work with. He is an anti-hero with some deep issues, and that's catnip for storytellers.

    Senpai noticed me!

    Anyway, really cool stuff and thanks to all the writing team. I am a huge lore junkie and regardless of how it makes me feel about the characters, one way or another I want to read more. I am sure we all have our own vision of what each character is really like, but I for one love seeing whether that image is confirmed or even when it's thrown out and something new comes to light that I hadn't considered.

  • Cyanchiv.2583Cyanchiv.2583 Member ✭✭✭

    I enjoyed Rytlock's story. It was great to learn more about how his personality was shaped and to learn about what he really values in life.

  • trixantea.1230trixantea.1230 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2019

    I was expecting the story to be voiced and animated with the usual beautiful GW2 art style. That could have helped Anet to introduce the game to other new players and make the story look more immersive.

    Going into walls of text to know more about a video game's lore wasn't worth the effort for me and I don't think that many players will be intrested in that too.

<1
©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.