Overview -> Counters of each class

Hey guys,

I want to create an overview in which you can see certain specs countering other specs. I know, it is basically all about the individual playstyle and it doesn't matter which class you play, a better player always counters a worse one. Also, many classes are not supposed to go 1 vs 1, instead being a +1. But I know that there are certain weaknesses, and it is more LIKELY to counter them with a specific class. But I need opinions. I hope I listed all relevant classes / specs for pvp below...

The already filled out counters are not necessarily right, feel free to correct. I will adapt and edit this post regularly. Hope enough will participate. I had in mind mostly 1 vs 1, but not exclusively, as already said some classes / specs are better / prefered for teamfights, like Scourge.

I've read this thread https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65003/thoughts-post-season-14-from-different-class-perspectives#latest multiple times to get some idea about the weaknesses of each class, but because I want a simple overview, this one is supposed to be a separate thread.

Below takes the form of:

CLASS PLAYED <---------------- CLASSES WHO COUNTER THE CLASS (like in a 1 vs 1)(not the other way round!)

COUNTER TO...

MESMERCore Mesmer <- Core Guard, Core ThiefMirage <- Core Guard, Core ThiefChronomancer <-

ENGINEERCore Engi <- Soulbeast, Mirage, in general NecrosScrapper <- Soulbeast, Mirage, Spellbreaker, in general Guards, Necros, esp. ReaperHolosmith <- Soulbeast, Mirage, in general Necros, esp. Scourge

THIEFCore Thief S/D <-Soulbeast, Core Guard, Weaver, in general Engineer, esp. HolosmithDeadeye <- Soulbeast, Core Guard, Weaver, in general Warrior, Engineer, esp. HolosmithD/P Daredevil <- Soulbeast, Core Guard, Weaver, in general Engineer, esp. Holosmith

RANGERBoon Beast<- MirageDruid <- Holosmith, Spellbreaker, Shatter Mesmer, in general ThievesCore Ranger <-

ELEMENTALISTCore Ele S/F <- Soulbeast, Daredevil, Holosmith, in general Wariors, Thieves, Revenants, NecrosS/D Mender's Sword Weaver <- Soulbeast, Daredevil, Holosmith, Core Guard, in general Warriors, Thieves, Revenants // contradiction, some say no real counters?!Fresh Air Weaver <-Tempest <- Soulbeast, Daredevil, Holosmith, in general Warriors, Thieves, Revenants, Necros

NECROMANCERCore Necro <- Soulbeast, Core Warrior, in general ThievesReaper <- Soulbeast, Herald, in general Thieves, WarriorsScourge <- Core Guard, Ranger, Soulbeast, S/D Mender's Sword Weaver , Revenant, in general Thieves

WARRIORCore Warrior <- MirageSpellbreaker <- Mirage

GUARDIANCore Guard <-Reaper, SoulbeastFirebrand <- Reaper, Scourge, SoulbeastDragon Hunter <- any duelist build in current meta

REVENANTHerald (Power Shiro) <- Holosmith, Soulbeast, Mirage, in general ThievesRenegade <- Holosmith, Soulbeast, Mirage, in general Thieves

@Serenity.6304 said:COUNTER TO...THIEFDeadeye -> Soulbeast, Core Guard, all Warriors, HolosmithWARRIORCore Warrior -> all Thiefs, MirageSpellbreaker -> all Thiefs, Mirage

just a little contradiction in your list.

My only addition to the list is that core necro builds (almost always are boon corrupt) counter spellbreakers.

I'd also ask that you specifically write out (for those who might not be following along):

"Below takes the form of: CLASS PLAYED > CLASSES COUNTERED"

Lastly, there are various builds within each spec. For example, I have a holosmith spec that is countered by mirages, but doesn't follow the standard counters. I don't use it all the time, but it's situationally useful. You might note that there are various builds within each class, so this list isn't an end-all-be-all.

Good luck!

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Serenity.6304 said:

COUNTER TO...

THIEF

Deadeye -> Soulbeast, Core Guard,

all Warriors

, Holosmith

WARRIOR

Core Warrior ->

all Thiefs

, MirageSpellbreaker ->

all Thiefs

, Mirage

Wondering if he meant thieves outside of deadeyes.

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Serenity.6304 said:

COUNTER TO...

THIEF

Deadeye -> Soulbeast, Core Guard,

all Warriors

, Holosmith

WARRIOR

Core Warrior ->

all Thiefs

, MirageSpellbreaker ->

all Thiefs

, Mirage

well seen it alot lateley that when people talk about 'thieves', they mean everything but deadeyes. but you can never be sure and technically deadeye is just a thief spec.

i would also like you to specify the circumstances in wich those professions counter the other. 1 vs 1 is just the teamsize, but what also matters is envoirement like open space / limited space, are there obstacles? is the fight over a node or do you win it by killing that profession etc.for example if the deadeye has space and no node to take just to kill the target, than no warrior will be a counter to a deadeye.

On the thief section you've added core guard, but I know another clasic counter to dp drd as being DH too, while in some way I feel DE gets countered by dp drd, but it's debatable, I guess.

guard counters mesmernecro counters engireaper counters firebrandcore warrior counters core necronecro counters eleguard and spellbreaker counters scrapper

Any weaver with Primordial Stance (PS) can beat a thief or daredevil. They rely too much on melee combat, which PS counters hard, and any other burst can be evaded easily on Weaver.

Very few Soulbeasts have I come across as counters. They usually rely too heavily on damage, which is just evaded, or too much on sustain, which Weavers can outplay if they're smart.

But yeah, Warrior and Holosmith are hard counters. Any heavy condi builds are troublesome too, unless the Weaver specced full sustain

DH doesnt counter current meta Mirage. Its the other way around

@Serenity.6304 said:

MESMERCore Mesmer ->Core GuardMirage -> Core Guard, DragonhunterChronomancer ->

For mirage I would add core Thief and Soulbeast but remove Dragonhunter.

There is a secret counter to all classes and builds. . . Bearbeast :P

@Serenity.6304 said:COUNTER TO...Scrapper -> Reaper, Soulbeast, MirageScrapper does not counter reaper. It's the other way around. Scrapper is extremely susceptible to corruptions. If any engineer spec has decent chances against a reaper, it's holo, when he manages to land the stunlock burst.

D/P Daredevil->Soulbeast, Core Guard, HolosmithI doubt D/P daredevil counters soulbeast.

Reaper -> Soulbeast, all WarriorsReaper counters soulbeast? Is this a joke? Soulbeast and deadeye are THE hardcounters to any possible reaper build. The reaper can only win against these specs by superior skill.

And warriors... you can beat warriors on reaper if you slot corrupt boon, but it's still a tough matchup. A softcounter at best.

Core Guard ->Reaper, SoulbeastOn reaper I have absolutely no issues fighting core guards. Dragonhunters are way more of a threat, if they time their leaps and blocks well.

Herald (Power Shiro) ->Holosmith, all Thiefs, Soulbeast, ElePower Shiro softcounters reaper as long as the reaper is not running demolisher or paladin.

bait thread lol

this is way too subjective

Engineer as a general principle is countered by necro.Necro as a general principle is countered by thief.Thief as a general principle is countered by engineer.

This is true for core and the elite specs.

Counters of the herald power shiro are all wrong: any thief can win easily a 1v1 against herald and harass it everytime herald is not in a team fight (wich leaves the idea of in-out fight of the main herald's gameplay totaly countered); herald doesnt counter soulbeast in any scenario; herald should counter holosmith in team fight, by choosing right timings in attack, but i suggest to not ever engage an holosmith in a 1v1 cap point, you will lose with herald, or be forced to run away. To me this matchup is pretty even. And the last one... yes the last one is correct, herald counter elementalist in any of his forms.You can add necros to herald's counter, and also warriors in general, but please remove soulbeast/thief/holosmith because this is totaly missleading for pvp players who want to have an idea on how a revenant should rotate and how to take advantage from a revenant teammate.

@sephiroth.4217 said:bait thread lol

this is way too subjective

But it's so fun.

Gonna edit and answer everything tomorrow, but it is important to know that the list says

counters TOe.g. Mirage -> Core Guard

So the last one is the spec that counters, like in 1 vs 1, but as already mentioned in the first comment, my description / form was misleading, no worries.

But already a big thank you everyone for sharing your knowledge and correcting wrong information!

@Serenity.6304 said:

ELEMENTALISTCore Ele S/F -> 8 all other classesWeaver -> 8 all other classesTempest -> 8 all other classes

Hmm, yah, sounds about right.

@Fortus.6175 said:

@Serenity.6304 said:

ELEMENTALIST

Core Ele S/F -> 8 all other classesWeaver -> 8 all other classesTempest -> 8 all other classes

Nah... Pretty sure Renegade don't counter Ele.

The thing with this that you probably are going off of standard "meta" copy paste builds. In reality the only class I have a issue with as a reaper is the uncontrollable conditions of mirage and chrono.

Why don't we play more DH? It has no counters, E Z game. All in all, might be the most inaccurate list I've ever seen. Which on this forum, says a lot.

Warrior counters Mirage?

Hard Warrior nerfs next Balance Patch then.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Why don't we play more DH? It has no counters, E Z game. All in all, might be the most inaccurate list I've ever seen. Which on this forum, says a lot.

Ofc it is inaccurate, full of mistakes and incomplete, DHs counters are still missing completely, as you’ve seen, for example. That does not mean that DH had no counters!

The idea was that the list should be completed over time and with help of the forum members.

It us just a try after all, if you all think it doesn‘t make sense I won‘t continue. But I will try to work with your contributions. It is fun for me as a fan of lists though ;)

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Warrior counters Mirage?

Hard Warrior nerfs next Balance Patch then.

No, it‘s the other way round,Class played —> counters to this classBut if it‘s wrong that Mirage can be seen as a counter to warrior, let me know

@"Ziggityzog.7389" said:The thing with this that you probably are going off of standard "meta" copy paste builds. In reality the only class I have a issue with as a reaper is the uncontrollable conditions of mirage and chrono.

Yes, you are correctThat‘s interesting, yeah maybe a list doesn‘t make sense. As I have already said individual skill is what matters most. Still fun though :D

@Serenity.6304 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Warrior counters Mirage?

Hard Warrior nerfs next Balance Patch then.

@"Ziggityzog.7389" said:The thing with this that you probably are going off of standard "meta" copy paste builds. In reality the only class I have a issue with as a reaper is the uncontrollable conditions of mirage and chrono.

OHHHHH! Sorry then.

I'd say Druid is countered by anything with heavy CC like Holo and Spellbreaker.Also by high Power roamers like all manner of thieves and Shatter Mesmer. Sure they have SoS but when that's gone they need to back off or they die.

Also, DH is pretty much countered by any and all duelist builds in the current meta. They just do more damage, have better stability and sustain and are more mobile.