I love the power creep, but can we get it gone!

Okay this is how the power creep can get removed. First nerf everything with 60% in PVP and WVW(If i say everything i mean everything boon durations, power damage, condi damage, healing power effect, condi damage effect, all the skills of every class). So the power creep is gone. Then we will look to the biggest outliers. At this point in time it the biggest are condi mirage and Boon beast. There are enought post that will point out what the problems are. Nerf those 2 classen and don't give anyother a buff. See with class then the problem is and nerf that 1. This is the only way that guild wars 2 will be still around in 5 years pvp wise. Because power creep destorys games. Only buff things if it really need get buffed. Gemerally other thing need a nerf and buffs are not often the solution, if 1 klass is over performing. Like in the curent meta condi Mirage and boon beast are over performing.

i am not the only dreamer :D

@Safandula.8723 said:i am not the only dreamer :D

Not a dreamer. If this doesn't happen the game will die.(pvp and wvw)

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:i am not the only dreamer :D

Yep a lot of my friends left because of the power creep and they don't log in.

Many people will also point to a study about gambling and use it to say nerfs hurt twice as much as buffs. Firstly the study was about how much a prize had to be worth for people to risk losing what they had to gamble on winning so is less applicable here. Secondly these people fail to realise that buffs, often in the wrong place or done incorrectly are similar to nerfing as you further increase the value or perceived power difference between options.

We need nerfs.

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:i am not the only dreamer :D

my friend recenlt left, if they wont do anything in this direction in next patch, im gonna leave pvp/wvw. deadeyes and rangers oneshoting u in 1s from 1500 range(this is just today frustration from wvw, there is many many other examples)

Sadly, the powercreep won't be removed. Simply because this is their market strategy, somewhat like how Apple intentionally slows down their iPhones with updates so that people will be forced to buy a new one. Cannibalizing the game is bad if it can't capture new clients and current clients (like your friends) leave due to this reason.

I learned something, if you cant beat them, join them and get em nerfed.I have somewhere around 55-60% win rate with ele most of the season, until I reach mid P1 over many games, then it seems to equilibrate, so I figured, well, if Im getting that much done with ele, then what about soulbeast? I played only one day, out of ~21 games, lost 3, and had 2 afk so no SR lost, basically I landed at nearly P2 after a single play session, at some point nearly at P2 I was losing 15 SR and winning only 8, so matchmaking was probably putting me in G1-2 (possibly lower?) games. At the current rate I see myself simply landing top 100 within my next gaming session over the weekend. I'm hoping Anet sees that discrepant +75% winrate on soulbeast and starts comparing individual player's stats based on class.I feel this is all you can do at the moment. Once I get it done with soulbeast, mirage and holo are to follow (although I just cant picture myself playing holo, it kinda "breaks" my "immersion", but I'll do what I can to see it come to acceptable levels).No but seriously, Im playing power soulbeast and currently the only 2 things that can give me trouble are mirages and spellbreakers, everyone else is pretty much free food or a stall, the level of "power" is immense:

23k hp, 2,453 toughness, 230% crit damage multiplier, 78% crit chance with fury, 2400 power (without might!), 30% mov speed without swiftness, 33% immunity vs condi and direct damage, 25% increased dodge uptime coupled with decent healing from protection when you dodge/moa/receive protection from ally. I hit like a truck too; wait for a dodge or two, maybe a defensive cooldown: Moa > Horn 5 > Wolf pack > sick'em > merge > horn 4 > smoke assault > pet knockdown attack > WI > Axe 3 > switch LB with quickness sigil > LB 2 or LB 5 (if they using LoS if somehow they arent dead already) > autoattack for 3-5k > stomp.

@Isle of Stars.3049 said:Sadly, the powercreep won't be removed. Simply because this is their market strategy, somewhat like how Apple intentionally slows down their iPhones with updates so that people will be forced to buy a new one. Cannibalizing the game is bad if it can't capture new clients and current clients (like your friends) leave due to this reason.

If that is the case the game will die in the next couple of years. More and more people are leaving the game becuase of power creep. I'm playing this game fore more then 5 years, from beta tests. Even i am getting annoyed because of the power creep. The skill is getting removed more and more from the game.

Powercreep is one thing and i doubt it can be fixed at this point, the problem is that the around isn't fun neither..

I mean, i ended my placement games this season, and i get games at 1400 where my teammates are going to solo lord at 100-100, who keep dying in half a second to any reaper or mirage in 1v1 situations, who complain at you for dying 1v3 though they cannot hold other 2 nodes, who aren't playing on capping. Every single season begin, you have to experience all the random matchs. At least, they should get rid of the season system, and implement AT's swiss round.

Also, i'm not going to blame them for doing what happens in every single game. However, these are exactly the same complaints in every single games.

Honestly I would increase the base health pool by 3000-4000. This would bring a paper ele up to 14-15k rather than 11k, which is a death sentence in most content.

Then I would remove all of the traits/sigils/bonuses that reduce condition duration, and replace them with traits/sigils/bonuses that reduce condition damage taken. The condition duration reduction is 0% effective if you are cleansing conditions. This would actually create builds that were tanks against condition damage, with the health to back it up.

I'd probably also make toughness more effective (and abundant) because it barely seems to do anything anyway.

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@Isle of Stars.3049 said:Sadly, the powercreep won't be removed. Simply because this is their market strategy, somewhat like how Apple intentionally slows down their iPhones with updates so that people will be forced to buy a new one. Cannibalizing the game is bad if it can't capture new clients and current clients (like your friends) leave due to this reason.

I could be wrong with that, so take my opinion with a large sack of Himalayan pink salt.

If I may add, another possible reason why there is an inevitable gridlock in power creep can be traced on their introduction of the specialization classes when HoT came about. From a business's perspective, it may appear cheaper to introduce sub-specs from pre-existing classes with weapons that were not previously available (i.e., rifle on Thief, Shield on Mesmer, etc.) than introducing a new class into the game (after rev).

This is where the power creeping eventually came, as the designers create more complex specs for the game, it renders other previous specs obsolete. There is a slight chance that the power creep that we have now may be the result of lack of foresight in terms of development.

Introducing a new class, rather than giving all pre-existing classes new specs -was- detrimental in controlling the power creep in this game. The devs should have seen the success of the original Guild Wars for this reason and took it as a lesson. Simply because a new class can be designed to be countered by some of the previously existing classes, or be toned down with nerfs immediately when needed without hurting its intended design (in GW2's case, the core traits/specs).

With the status quo that we have, it is difficult to tone down the present power creep without hurting the original specs (Core). For instance, they nerfed Lead Attacks with an initial intent of lessening the burst of Deadeye, but then again it's not only Deadeye that was affected, as almost every Thief build requires Trickery traitline. But then again, why make all Core builds too powerful, or at least included in the meta when they are f2p, right? Hence, why you see very limited Core builds in play.

What we can only do is wait for ANet to throw small bones that we can gnaw. In reality, removing the power creep by nerfing/buffing the numbers these specs generate is just a band-aid solution towards the problem. A huge rework is needed. But, judging by the company's business model, I don't see that happening until the game bleeds out.

When you take the red pill you'll go through this game pleasantly surprised.

@"will de grijze jager.6594" said:Okay this is how the power creep can get removed. First nerf everything with 60% in PVP and WVW(If i say everything i mean everything boon durations, power damage, condi damage, healing power effect, condi damage effect, all the skills of every class). So the power creep is gone. Then we will look to the biggest outliers. At this point in time it the biggest are condi mirage and Boon beast. There are enought post that will point out what the problems are. Nerf those 2 classen and don't give anyother a buff. See with class then the problem is and nerf that 1. This is the only way that guild wars 2 will be still around in 5 years pvp wise. Because power creep destorys games. Only buff things if it really need get buffed. Gemerally other thing need a nerf and buffs are not often the solution, if 1 klass is over performing. Like in the curent meta condi Mirage and boon beast are over performing.

Yes because what'll really revive this game's PvP is for everyone to run around impotently and limpwristedly swatting at each other for sub 600 damage per crit for literally minutes on end until one of them finally keels over and boy you better hope no one is smart enough to actually revive them.

I know this is a troll post, but can you imagine a freaking meta where skills that provide boons like guardian shield 4 provide less of the boons they're intended to provide than it takes to actually cast them because of a nerf like this? Like literally imagine how many skills would be loaded with "1 second cast time. 1.5 seconds of boon for your trouble" with stuff like this XD

@Isle of Stars.3049 said:it is difficult to tone down the present power creep without hurting the original specs

Nerfing elites and not core is difficult? Hello?

@XenoSpyro.1780 said:

@Isle of Stars.3049 said:it is difficult to tone down the present power creep without hurting the original specs

Indeed, some of them proved to be challenging as their mechanics are ingrained with the designs of the classes itself. Toning down the numbers these elite specs generate isn't enough to get rid of the power creep.

Meanwhile, I am also interested in your input on how we can address the power creep issue on this game. All views are welcome.

I always wondered what would happen if they blanket reduced all damage on in pvp/wvw by 50%.

You can make suggestions all day long. There is just not much interest in competitive game modes anymore. Its all about PvE. When it comes to balancing its about raids. Whether some specs or the overall direction is good or bad for PvP/WvW doesn't matter.

@Marxx.5021 said:You can make suggestions all day long. There is just not much interest in competitive game modes anymore. Its all about PvE. When it comes to balancing its about raids. Whether some specs or the overall direction is good or bad for PvP/WvW doesn't matter.

Yes, we are aware of that. Thanks.

To the people that keep saying the game will die without PvP.

No it won't.It actually won't.You are being crowdfunded by the PVE whales.To think that PvP and WvW matters that much is a joke that people seem content on living in when they finally leave.

News flash.You and your friends leaving floating gamemodes won't even make Anet bat an eyelash.

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:Okay this is how the power creep can get removed. First nerf everything with 60% in PVP and WVW(If i say everything i mean everything boon durations, power damage, condi damage, healing power effect, condi damage effect, all the skills of every class). So the power creep is gone. Then we will look to the biggest outliers. At this point in time it the biggest are condi mirage and Boon beast and Holo. There are enought post that will point out what the problems are. Nerf those 2 classen and don't give anyother a buff. See with class then the problem is and nerf that 1. This is the only way that guild wars 2 will be still around in 5 years pvp wise. Because power creep destorys games. Only buff things if it really need get buffed. Gemerally other thing need a nerf and buffs are not often the solution, if 1 klass is over performing. Like in the curent meta condi Mirage and boon beast are over performing.

Fixed it for ya ;)

@Isle of Stars.3049 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@Isle of Stars.3049 said:Sadly, the powercreep won't be removed. Simply because this is their market strategy, somewhat like how Apple intentionally slows down their iPhones with updates so that people will be forced to buy a new one. Cannibalizing the game is bad if it can't capture new clients and current clients (like your friends) leave due to this reason.

removing power creep is ez, but they need to add restrications to elite specs. Like if you are a high dps class like mirage you are not getting mobility (stealth) and defensive options also high. A class should only have like 2 of the 3 high options not all. You have high damage okay, you will have low defence options, traits and so on. Or you have high damage sure you have also high defence but no mobility. They need to cut parts of the class out. Mirage is high dps so they shouldn't have high mobility, damage and defence. Take weaver, high defence, medi mobility and damage, that is good balance.

I think you get where i'm going with it.

If you can't get rid if power creep than just identify which classes are over the top like mesmer, soul beast and Deadeye and keep them the same. Then take all the lesser classes and add like 20k hp to their current hp.

That should level the field. By at least not being 1 shotted.

@Crackmonster.2790 said:I always wondered what would happen if they blanket reduced all damage on in pvp/wvw by 50%.

Duelists would still always win, fights would last entire matches and bunkers would be unkillable. Essentially the games would consist of 2 bunkers rotating to support their 3 duelists - meaning there would be no nodes to decap so even thieves would be useless.

Matches would mostly be decided by which team managed to stay in the mid circle the most until one of them caps it.