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WvW Frontline Staff DD Build Guide + Gameplay with commentary!

RisenHowl.2419

By RisenHowl.2419
in Thief

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reddie.5861

reddie.5861

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nice vid, playing same crap just different runes and some skills but the stamina sigil is pure love found it long time ago already and fell in love with it :D

tho i kinda dislike scholar runes dunno why every1 is using it.i found my self doing far better in https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Eagle these runes it gives u perma +10% dmg bonus above 50% hp from crit strikes below 50% hp from runes.

while scholar gives only 5% when ur above 90% hp which is when? first attack :P then its gone..my base attack is higher then yours tho dunno how cant be arsed to login right now but it give me the push to lose scholar runes and try eagle.plus i use powerfood for +200 power on kill so i dont really miss the power from scholar + the signet gives shit load + might stack.didnt wanna think much but i believe at that point u gain more out of precision/fero then power i might be wrong but i would say if ur low on gold go for eagle runes same shit alot cheaper ;).

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RisenHowl.2419

RisenHowl.2419

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@"reddie.5861" said:nice vid, playing same kitten just different runes and some skills but the stamina sigil is pure love found it long time ago already and fell in love with it :D

tho i kinda dislike scholar runes dunno why every1 is using it.i found my self doing far better in https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Eagle these runes it gives u perma +10% dmg bonus above 50% hp from crit strikes below 50% hp from runes.

while scholar gives only 5% when ur above 90% hp which is when? first attack :P then its gone..my base attack is higher then yours tho dunno how cant be kitten to login right now but it give me the push to lose scholar runes and try eagle.plus i use powerfood for +200 power on kill so i dont really miss the power from scholar + the signet gives kitten load + might stack.didnt wanna think much but i believe at that point u gain more out of precision/fero then power i might be wrong but i would say if ur low on gold go for eagle runes same kitten alot cheaper ;).

The main reason for scholar runes over eagle is the main stat power. the only time where ferocity is better than power is if you have over 2250 power more than ferocity at 100% crit rate. Giving up 175 power for precision costs you a lot of damage as it's much easier to switch out berserker pieces for marauder if you need more precision for minimal power loss. Ideally when you're building for damage, you start by using everything that increases power or condition damage first, then figure out what the smallest loss of each is for the amount of precision/defense you need. The 5% damage on the runes is a nice bonus, but isn't reliable which is why it doesn't factor into the equation, it's all about the power/precision combo =D

That's the power shown with 200 power on kill food on. with the build linked it sits at 2928 power without might or bloodlust stacks, 3928 with.3958 with minor borderlands bloodlust4058 with +200 power food4418 with all of the above and the signet's active effect

it all adds up pretty quickly lol

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RisenHowl.2419

RisenHowl.2419

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@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Awesome guide!I'll be giving your build a roll when I get back.Looks real fun.I think staff DDs are the most underrated frontline Zerg class in the game.

Glad you liked it, might spend the first few days running back from spawn but once you get a feel for it it's a lot of fun lol

I was a bit iffy about trying it out, but after the last couple weeks of working on it I'm convinced it's viable for raid slots just for the spike damage

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RisenHowl.2419

RisenHowl.2419

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@"Xenji.4907" said:Awesome guide and tips. When I play staff I would take "Uncatchable" instead of "Thrill of the Crime". Because you dont steal as often but you bound a whole lot so why not have people cripple while you jump on them? :D For me it makes it so much easier.Thank you!

I debated swapping those but ended up taking thrill of the crime to help support the group with fury+might+swiftness. if your group reliably maintains them at 100% anyways then uncatchable is the better trait, good call man!

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RisenHowl.2419

RisenHowl.2419

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@Turk.5460 said:I think Ogre Runes might be more consistent for an (almost) glass Thief in the frontline. A lot of your attacks were while you were under 90% hp. Have you tried fooling around with those instead?

I checked them out with gw2 power vs scholar both under and over 90% hp. It's barely stronger under 90% and much weaker over 90%.

They're the perfect budget option, but I liked being able to bomb hard on the first couple vaults or whenever the zerg is in melee range. Dealer's choice =D

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Xenji.4907

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@RisenHowl.2419 said:I checked them out with gw2 power vs scholar both under and over 90% hp. It's barely stronger under 90% and much weaker over 90%.

Yes but you don't put in account the number of attacks under 90% compare to over 90s. It could be weaker on the initial amount of time but over time it will add up a lot more on the focus on under 90%. Judging your game play I usually see under 90%. However, if I see you oneshot or get in and get out within 10 secs then I would focus on over 90% health benefits.

Edit - Nevermind I see your blob keeps healing you and giving you barriers... Keep doing what you are doing. XD

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RisenHowl.2419

RisenHowl.2419

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@Xenji.4907 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:I checked them out with gw2 power vs scholar both under and over 90% hp. It's barely stronger under 90% and much weaker over 90%.

Yes but you don't put in account the number of attacks under 90% compare to over 90s. It could be weaker on the initial amount of time but over time it will add up a lot more on the focus on under 90%. Judging your game play I usually see under 90%. However, if I see you oneshot or get in and get out within 10 secs then I would focus on over 90% health benefits.

Edit
- Nevermind I see your blob keeps healing you and giving you barriers... Keep doing what you are doing. XD

XD

I find that weaving in and out of our group yields the best results, this build is pretty positioning and CD reliant for survival and once roll for initiative is on CD you have to play a little more carefully

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Turk.5460

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@bluri.2653 said:New pack rune in wvw is good too. Valk and drd rune as well

Not so much for what OP is doing. With Pack runes he loses the Ferocity and flat damage bonus, and he already has enough precision, plus the boons are useless since he's in the middle of a zerg gaining them from his allies. Valk and DrD would lose out on tons of damage from both the Ferocity and no longer critting on most dodges or auto's he may feel safe to throw out - definitely not worth the extra 5k hp.

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kash.9213

kash.9213

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@Turk.5460 said:

@bluri.2653 said:New pack rune in wvw is good too. Valk and drd rune as well

Not so much for what OP is doing. With Pack runes he loses the Ferocity and flat damage bonus, and he already has enough precision, plus the boons are useless since he's in the middle of a zerg gaining them from his allies. Valk and DrD would lose out on tons of damage from both the Ferocity and no longer critting on most dodges or auto's he may feel safe to throw out - definitely not worth the extra 5k hp.

I'll take those boons and boon duration then if you're not using them. I agree most thieves can get by with not as much health even in frontline, about 20k is a nice lame base line, but I'd like to build for that half second of time in a circle reviving someone or for when I have to burn anti cc before I bounce real quick so we're also building around what we know about our squads. We want to stick around to do our damage, hitting power is important but so is making whoever you're focusing on burn their anti cc and to dismantle their mitigation like one and done boons and all that, it's a quick burn after that (at least usually in squad play) even with only passable Power/Ferocity. No disagreement, just wanted to stretch the thought out a little.

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RisenHowl.2419

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@kash.9213 said:

@bluri.2653 said:New pack rune in wvw is good too. Valk and drd rune as well

Not so much for what OP is doing. With Pack runes he loses the Ferocity and flat damage bonus, and he already has enough precision, plus the boons are useless since he's in the middle of a zerg gaining them from his allies. Valk and DrD would lose out on tons of damage from both the Ferocity and no longer critting on most dodges or auto's he may feel safe to throw out - definitely not worth the extra 5k hp.

I'll take those boons and boon duration then if you're not using them. I agree most thieves can get by with not as much health even in frontline, about 20k is a nice lame base line, but I'd like to build for that half second of time in a circle reviving someone or for when I have to burn anti cc before I bounce real quick so we're also building around what we know about our squads. We want to stick around to do our damage, hitting power is important but so is making whoever you're focusing on burn their anti cc and to dismantle their mitigation like one and done boons and all that, it's a quick burn after that (at least usually in squad play) even with only passable Power/Ferocity. No disagreement, just wanted to stretch the thought out a little.

You really shouldn't be going for resses wit a frontline dd, your role in the zerg is spike damage and soft CC.

Critical strikes already provides 100% uptime on fury, amd you should get might and swiftness fron your squad. Getting to 20k hp, or even 18k hp, is a huge damage loss. You're looking at going from 10-12k average vaults to 6-8k due to multiplicitive scaling. If you're only hitting for that much you'd do more for your group by running a Herald instead, even if you play Herald poorly =s

The big advantage to a glass melee class with high mobility is taking out the enemy group's weavers and heralds in 1-2 hits, neutralizing their damage completely very quickly

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kash.9213

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@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@bluri.2653 said:New pack rune in wvw is good too. Valk and drd rune as well

Not so much for what OP is doing. With Pack runes he loses the Ferocity and flat damage bonus, and he already has enough precision, plus the boons are useless since he's in the middle of a zerg gaining them from his allies. Valk and DrD would lose out on tons of damage from both the Ferocity and no longer critting on most dodges or auto's he may feel safe to throw out - definitely not worth the extra 5k hp.

I'll take those boons and boon duration then if you're not using them. I agree most thieves can get by with not as much health even in frontline, about 20k is a nice lame base line, but I'd like to build for that half second of time in a circle reviving someone or for when I have to burn anti cc before I bounce real quick so we're also building around what we know about our squads. We want to stick around to do our damage, hitting power is important but so is making whoever you're focusing on burn their anti cc and to dismantle their mitigation like one and done boons and all that, it's a quick burn after that (at least usually in squad play) even with only passable Power/Ferocity. No disagreement, just wanted to stretch the thought out a little.

You really shouldn't be going for resses wit a frontline dd, your role in the zerg is spike damage and soft CC.

Critical strikes already provides 100% uptime on fury, amd you should get might and swiftness fron your squad. Getting to 20k hp, or even 18k hp, is a huge damage loss. You're looking at going from 10-12k average vaults to 6-8k due to multiplicitive scaling. If you're only hitting for that much you'd do more for your group by running a Herald instead, even if you play Herald poorly =s

The big advantage to a glass melee class with high mobility is taking out the enemy group's weavers and heralds in 1-2 hits, neutralizing their damage completely very quickly

You caught the part where I said I didn't disagree? Being dead or being babysat is also a huge damage loss, if you're good with that build then ya, push it as far as you can. You can plan what you're going to do but you don't get to chose what's going to happen after you log on, you're just going to have to revive people more than you'd like. If you're saying forget you see you at the waypoint and you can't take a hit on top of that, what you doing there?

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RisenHowl.2419

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@kash.9213 said:

@bluri.2653 said:New pack rune in wvw is good too. Valk and drd rune as well

Not so much for what OP is doing. With Pack runes he loses the Ferocity and flat damage bonus, and he already has enough precision, plus the boons are useless since he's in the middle of a zerg gaining them from his allies. Valk and DrD would lose out on tons of damage from both the Ferocity and no longer critting on most dodges or auto's he may feel safe to throw out - definitely not worth the extra 5k hp.

I'll take those boons and boon duration then if you're not using them. I agree most thieves can get by with not as much health even in frontline, about 20k is a nice lame base line, but I'd like to build for that half second of time in a circle reviving someone or for when I have to burn anti cc before I bounce real quick so we're also building around what we know about our squads. We want to stick around to do our damage, hitting power is important but so is making whoever you're focusing on burn their anti cc and to dismantle their mitigation like one and done boons and all that, it's a quick burn after that (at least usually in squad play) even with only passable Power/Ferocity. No disagreement, just wanted to stretch the thought out a little.

You really shouldn't be going for resses wit a frontline dd, your role in the zerg is spike damage and soft CC.

Critical strikes already provides 100% uptime on fury, amd you should get might and swiftness fron your squad. Getting to 20k hp, or even 18k hp, is a huge damage loss. You're looking at going from 10-12k average vaults to 6-8k due to multiplicitive scaling. If you're only hitting for that much you'd do more for your group by running a Herald instead, even if you play Herald poorly =s

The big advantage to a glass melee class with high mobility is taking out the enemy group's weavers and heralds in 1-2 hits, neutralizing their damage completely very quickly

You caught the part where I said I didn't disagree? Being dead or being babysat is also a huge damage loss, if you're good with that build then ya, push it as far as you can. You can plan what you're going to do but you don't get to chose what's going to happen after you log on, you're just going to have to revive people more than you'd like. If you're saying forget you see you at the waypoint and you can't take a hit on top of that, what you doing there?

I'm afraid I am disagreeing, if you can't play the profession to best possible effect you could do more for your group by switching to something else. If played well, dd requires very little babysitting and has a high impact on fights

You should not be reviving on any glass build, the opportunity cost of reviving is that you aren't generating downs for your group to capitalize on, downs which you can use to rally your own downs. Your squad's support classes and roles have traits and utilities along with the innate bulk to successfully revive downs when required. Squads are built around these specialized roles in wvw just as they are in pve, staying in your role is what gives your squad the best chances of success

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kash.9213

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@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@bluri.2653 said:New pack rune in wvw is good too. Valk and drd rune as well

Not so much for what OP is doing. With Pack runes he loses the Ferocity and flat damage bonus, and he already has enough precision, plus the boons are useless since he's in the middle of a zerg gaining them from his allies. Valk and DrD would lose out on tons of damage from both the Ferocity and no longer critting on most dodges or auto's he may feel safe to throw out - definitely not worth the extra 5k hp.

I'll take those boons and boon duration then if you're not using them. I agree most thieves can get by with not as much health even in frontline, about 20k is a nice lame base line, but I'd like to build for that half second of time in a circle reviving someone or for when I have to burn anti cc before I bounce real quick so we're also building around what we know about our squads. We want to stick around to do our damage, hitting power is important but so is making whoever you're focusing on burn their anti cc and to dismantle their mitigation like one and done boons and all that, it's a quick burn after that (at least usually in squad play) even with only passable Power/Ferocity. No disagreement, just wanted to stretch the thought out a little.

You really shouldn't be going for resses wit a frontline dd, your role in the zerg is spike damage and soft CC.

Critical strikes already provides 100% uptime on fury, amd you should get might and swiftness fron your squad. Getting to 20k hp, or even 18k hp, is a huge damage loss. You're looking at going from 10-12k average vaults to 6-8k due to multiplicitive scaling. If you're only hitting for that much you'd do more for your group by running a Herald instead, even if you play Herald poorly =s

The big advantage to a glass melee class with high mobility is taking out the enemy group's weavers and heralds in 1-2 hits, neutralizing their damage completely very quickly

You caught the part where I said I didn't disagree? Being dead or being babysat is also a huge damage loss, if you're good with that build then ya, push it as far as you can. You can plan what you're going to do but you don't get to chose what's going to happen after you log on, you're just going to have to revive people more than you'd like. If you're saying forget you see you at the waypoint and you can't take a hit on top of that, what you doing there?

I'm afraid I am disagreeing,
if you can't play the profession to best possible effect you could do more for your group by switching to something else
. If played well, dd requires very little babysitting and has a high impact on fights

You should not be reviving on any glass build, the opportunity cost of reviving is that you aren't generating downs for your group to capitalize on, downs which you can use to rally your own downs. Your squad's support classes and roles have traits and utilities along with the innate bulk to successfully revive downs when required. Squads are built around these specialized roles in wvw just as they are in pve, staying in your role is what gives your squad the best chances of success

Get out of here with that attitude, not even sure what point you're arguing there, unless you're trying to make yourself sound super serious about the game mode. We're not on opposite sides of an argument so calm down a bit. In a half dying game mode where your squad is made up of anyone willing you build and play for the best outcome but you know you're going to get shook so be ready for that to or save your money to transfer your guild to where servers still have enough to do it right.

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RisenHowl.2419

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@kash.9213 said:

@bluri.2653 said:New pack rune in wvw is good too. Valk and drd rune as well

Not so much for what OP is doing. With Pack runes he loses the Ferocity and flat damage bonus, and he already has enough precision, plus the boons are useless since he's in the middle of a zerg gaining them from his allies. Valk and DrD would lose out on tons of damage from both the Ferocity and no longer critting on most dodges or auto's he may feel safe to throw out - definitely not worth the extra 5k hp.

I'll take those boons and boon duration then if you're not using them. I agree most thieves can get by with not as much health even in frontline, about 20k is a nice lame base line, but I'd like to build for that half second of time in a circle reviving someone or for when I have to burn anti cc before I bounce real quick so we're also building around what we know about our squads. We want to stick around to do our damage, hitting power is important but so is making whoever you're focusing on burn their anti cc and to dismantle their mitigation like one and done boons and all that, it's a quick burn after that (at least usually in squad play) even with only passable Power/Ferocity. No disagreement, just wanted to stretch the thought out a little.

You really shouldn't be going for resses wit a frontline dd, your role in the zerg is spike damage and soft CC.

Critical strikes already provides 100% uptime on fury, amd you should get might and swiftness fron your squad. Getting to 20k hp, or even 18k hp, is a huge damage loss. You're looking at going from 10-12k average vaults to 6-8k due to multiplicitive scaling. If you're only hitting for that much you'd do more for your group by running a Herald instead, even if you play Herald poorly =s

The big advantage to a glass melee class with high mobility is taking out the enemy group's weavers and heralds in 1-2 hits, neutralizing their damage completely very quickly

You caught the part where I said I didn't disagree? Being dead or being babysat is also a huge damage loss, if you're good with that build then ya, push it as far as you can. You can plan what you're going to do but you don't get to chose what's going to happen after you log on, you're just going to have to revive people more than you'd like. If you're saying forget you see you at the waypoint and you can't take a hit on top of that, what you doing there?

I'm afraid I am disagreeing,
if you can't play the profession to best possible effect you could do more for your group by switching to something else
. If played well, dd requires very little babysitting and has a high impact on fights

You should not be reviving on any glass build, the opportunity cost of reviving is that you aren't generating downs for your group to capitalize on, downs which you can use to rally your own downs. Your squad's support classes and roles have traits and utilities along with the innate bulk to successfully revive downs when required. Squads are built around these specialized roles in wvw just as they are in pve, staying in your role is what gives your squad the best chances of success

Get out of here with that attitude, not even sure what point you're arguing there, unless you're trying to make yourself sound super serious about the game mode. We're not on opposite sides of an argument so calm down a bit. In a half dying game mode where your squad is made up of anyone willing you build and play for the best outcome but you know you're going to get shook so be ready for that to or save your money to transfer your guild to where servers still have enough to do it right.

That last sentence is very confusing man lol

best outcome for DD in a zerg is generating downs and breaking chokes, why play it if you aren't trying to do so? If what you want to do is damage with tankiness and good group utility, you would probably enjoy playing herald more than DD. That's the point i'm trying to make

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kash.9213

kash.9213

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@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@bluri.2653 said:New pack rune in wvw is good too. Valk and drd rune as well

Not so much for what OP is doing. With Pack runes he loses the Ferocity and flat damage bonus, and he already has enough precision, plus the boons are useless since he's in the middle of a zerg gaining them from his allies. Valk and DrD would lose out on tons of damage from both the Ferocity and no longer critting on most dodges or auto's he may feel safe to throw out - definitely not worth the extra 5k hp.

I'll take those boons and boon duration then if you're not using them. I agree most thieves can get by with not as much health even in frontline, about 20k is a nice lame base line, but I'd like to build for that half second of time in a circle reviving someone or for when I have to burn anti cc before I bounce real quick so we're also building around what we know about our squads. We want to stick around to do our damage, hitting power is important but so is making whoever you're focusing on burn their anti cc and to dismantle their mitigation like one and done boons and all that, it's a quick burn after that (at least usually in squad play) even with only passable Power/Ferocity. No disagreement, just wanted to stretch the thought out a little.

You really shouldn't be going for resses wit a frontline dd, your role in the zerg is spike damage and soft CC.

Critical strikes already provides 100% uptime on fury, amd you should get might and swiftness fron your squad. Getting to 20k hp, or even 18k hp, is a huge damage loss. You're looking at going from 10-12k average vaults to 6-8k due to multiplicitive scaling. If you're only hitting for that much you'd do more for your group by running a Herald instead, even if you play Herald poorly =s

The big advantage to a glass melee class with high mobility is taking out the enemy group's weavers and heralds in 1-2 hits, neutralizing their damage completely very quickly

You caught the part where I said I didn't disagree? Being dead or being babysat is also a huge damage loss, if you're good with that build then ya, push it as far as you can. You can plan what you're going to do but you don't get to chose what's going to happen after you log on, you're just going to have to revive people more than you'd like. If you're saying forget you see you at the waypoint and you can't take a hit on top of that, what you doing there?

I'm afraid I am disagreeing,
if you can't play the profession to best possible effect you could do more for your group by switching to something else
. If played well, dd requires very little babysitting and has a high impact on fights

You should not be reviving on any glass build, the opportunity cost of reviving is that you aren't generating downs for your group to capitalize on, downs which you can use to rally your own downs. Your squad's support classes and roles have traits and utilities along with the innate bulk to successfully revive downs when required. Squads are built around these specialized roles in wvw just as they are in pve, staying in your role is what gives your squad the best chances of success

Get out of here with that attitude, not even sure what point you're arguing there, unless you're trying to make yourself sound super serious about the game mode. We're not on opposite sides of an argument so calm down a bit. In a half dying game mode where your squad is made up of anyone willing you build and play for the best outcome but you know you're going to get shook so be ready for that to or save your money to transfer your guild to where servers still have enough to do it right.

That last sentence is very confusing man
lol

best outcome for DD in a zerg is generating downs and breaking chokes, why play it if you aren't trying to do so? If what you want to do is damage with tankiness and good group utility, you would probably enjoy playing herald more than DD. That's the point i'm trying to make

Then I'll just leave it, threads in here get long and wordy.

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Dawdler.8521

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@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:Ever roam or smallscale with it?

No, it's very lacking in defensive CDs. Staff DD is very easy to kill in 1v1s because vault locks you in an animation =/Most thieves I see just... blow up... because they think marauder is going to protect them. It doesnt really do that. Unless they are insanely good, roflstompers doesnt fair well against other sustain roamers. The simple trick for flexible roaming on such a build is probably to build for more sustain than going full on dps and keep cycling evades rather than aiming for that one good stomp or die trying. Seen a few of those without stealth, they can be quite hard targets. Even met one this evening a couple times, was a while ago (most run the bog standard stealthing DE or d/p builds). I killed him with both of us in downed state and I think it was literally on my last attack before he would have killed me, lol.

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RisenHowl.2419

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:Ever roam or smallscale with it?

No, it's very lacking in defensive CDs. Staff DD is very easy to kill in 1v1s because vault locks you in an animation =/Most thieves I see just... blow up... because they think marauder is going to protect them. It doesnt really do that. Unless they are insanely good, roflstompers doesnt fair well against other sustain roamers. The simple trick for flexible roaming on such a build is probably to build for more sustain than going full on dps and keep cycling evades rather than aiming for that one good stomp or die trying. Seen a few of those without stealth, they can be quite hard targets. Even met one this evening a couple times, was a while ago (most run the bog standard stealthing DE or d/p builds). I killed him with both of us in downed state and I think it was literally on my last attack before he would have killed me, lol.

Agreed. If someone wanted to use this as a roamer on their way back to the zerg it'd be easiest to swap out the bow for d/p and blow CDs to vault one shot from stealth. This is definitely not a roaming build lol

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