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Cannot enter soulbeast form if pet is dead


Ruufio.1496

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Would make sense, no? Also feels off that you can just stay in soulbeast form. Every other type of transform has some downside around it. Engineer is the heat mechanic in forge and life force for necromancer. Berserker is adrenaline. Whether they are well designed or not is another discussion but soulbeast has nothing like the other transforms.

A good way to balance this would be to make your pet health and player health interact with each other. For example, if you enter soulbeast form when your pets health is full, then your health bar is changed to that of the pets full health. If you enter soulbeast when your pets health is 50% then your health becomes your pets' 50% health pool. Incoming heals while in soulbeast heal your pets health pool (your current health) while your actual player health is unaffected by anything unless you leave soulbeast form. This would mean that you could enter soulbeast while your player health is, say, 2,000 and have the full health pool of your pet. This would also allow you to get cooldowns back while in soulbeast and the counterplay is that when you leave soulbeast you are vulnerable.

"Dying" while in soulbeast should also put pet swap on cooldown,, leaving you with a dead pet until the cooldown is off.

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@"Ruufio.1496" said:Would make sense, no? Also feels off that you can just stay in soulbeast form Every other type of transform has some downside around it. Engineer is the heat mechanic in forge and life force for necromancer. Berserker is adrenaline. Whether they are well designed or not is another discussion but soulbeast has nothing like the other transforms.

A good way to balance this would be to make your pet health and player health interact with each other. For example, if you enter soulbeast form when your pets health is full, then your health bar is changed to that of the pets full health. If you enter soulbeast when your pets health is 50% then your health becomes your pets' 50% health pool. Incoming heals while in soulbeast heal your pets health pool (your current health) while your actual player health is unaffected by anything unless you leave soulbeast form. This would mean that you could enter soulbeast while your player health is, say, 2,000 and have the full health pool of your pet. This would also allow you to get cooldowns back while in soulbeast and the counterplay is that when you leave soulbeast you are vulnerable.

"Dying" while in soulbeast should also put pet swap on cooldown,, leaving you with a dead pet until the cooldown is off.

The downside is that to get the most out of soulbeast, entering soulbeast for the pet that is needed is double time gated.

Imagine if the engineer had a time gate between being in holo and another time gate between switching to a weapon in your kit.

If Rangers had their way, there would only be a cd with Soulbeast Pet switching.

As to the rest of your suggestions, no thanks.

Do you play Ranger?Is your 'concern' from a pvp, WvW or PvE viewpoint?

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The most elegant change that would tone down soulbeast is to replace petswap with beastmode.

This way you need to make a choice between a more offensive pet, more mobile pet or a more tanky pet.

All would rage obviously, but thats something that Anet did to themself. Nobody would bat an eye if this would have been the original design but now it would be a straight up salt source.

For Core the dead penalty should be removed though. Its an outdated design for an allready flawed class mechanic and base ranger and druid would benefit from it greatly.

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You only appear in the ranger forums when posting "nerf this" threads: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64059/everything-that-needs-to-be-nerfed-on-soulbeast-ranger-and-a-few-other-classes, https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65892/insanely-overpowered-ranger-skills-eg-whirling-defense-does-more-damage-than-hundred-blades, and now https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67650/cannot-enter-soulbeast-form-if-pet-is-dead.

As to this latest nerf idea, Anet will never implement it. Imagine how much the game engine would have to keep track of to try and link the health pools of ranger and pet. Soulbeast has immortal pets precisely because the engine doesn't keep track of the pet's state.

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I do think it strange that you can merge/unmerge freely regardless of the pet's state. Before soulbeast, having a dead pet meant incurring a 60 second waiting time between being able to use it again.

And now? A 10 sec waiting time to revive it fully? Doesn't seem quite right.

Something that could work (or not) is to have the merged health amount be an average of both health States, so merging with a dead pet leaves you at 50% life, and when unmerging the pet starts with a percentage of life mirroring the ranger's.

Who knows what ANet was thinking when leaving it the current way.

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Dealing with a dead pet is one of the most annoying things to deal with on a ranger.

That being said, I'd say that this would be a fair change. Beastmode is an instant cast and you only have a 10 second window max where you can't transform, so this would give players a reason to watch their pet's health when not transformed.

This wouldn't fix any balance issues with Soulbeasts, but it would at least add a layer of skill to playing the spec.

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@"Dahkeus.8243" said:Dealing with a dead pet is one of the most annoying things to deal with on a ranger.

That being said, I'd say that this would be a fair change. Beastmode is an instant cast and you only have a 10 second window max where you can't transform, so this would give players a reason to watch their pet's health when not transformed.

This wouldn't fix any balance issues with Soulbeasts, but it would at least add a layer of skill to playing the spec.

Is not ONLY 10 seconds max and that's it ... because when you can instant cast into beastmode it is possible that your beastmode skills are on CD. So when Anet thought about the thing a Ranger can go into beastmode even when the pet is dead, they thought also from POV of ability CD.

When you agree with what OP asking for, you must be more open mind than him who every week he didn't do nothing else than put another post "how to nerf ranger" , just because he was beaten so many times by rangers.You should think of this: if pet die and Soulbeast couldn't go in beastmode anymore, basically, you become a core ranger without the 3rd traits line. So you will become a class with only 2 traits lines.

The other idea "If you enter soulbeast when your pets health is 50% then your health becomes your pets' 50% health pool." it is not only nonsense, but it is a stupid idea.Even the concept of merging means two things getting combined which should result in something better than each thing or even more than those things together.But because he didn't understand many things, he doesn't understand that merge thing doesn't mean you (player) transform into your pet, but in something who combine the pet and your body (plus abilities) ... Beastmode doesn't mean the ranger become a pet!

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@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Little off topic: Did he change his avatar so we dont recognoze him as that engineer dude from the other thread? Or did he honestly switched to soulbeast for PvP and roaming?

I noticed that too, but I didn't asked him about this because I don't want make him think I'm watching him.Anyway it is his business, still what he is doing continuously started to be rude and disrespectful vis-a-vis of rangers comunity. Unfortunately no one can stop him and he is free to do whatever he want.I'm still sad I don' have an option to block him, so I can't see his posts anymore.

Its actually a feature missing on these forums. I know some ppl i cant stand either on the forums, just because they never, really never bring any constructive to the table.

Back on Topic:Dont burn me on the stake here when i say that OP is somehwat justified to think that ranger is overtuned, i mean soulbeast is S tier in Competitive duelling and has so many sustain tools.But that lies solely in soulbeast and not in core and definetly not the weaponskills.Shaving down moa in duration and efficacy would bring the build a bit in line with others and i think most rangers agree that this would be the case.

Punishing rangers even further when the pet dies is just freakishly stupid though.I think soulbeast is not so strong because they can revive their pet but rather because they have acces to 4 pets (2 normal and 2 beastmode) which gives them tremendous versatility. They can be fully offensive with a smokescale and evasive at the same time, go in beastmode and smack down like a truck. Get pressured swap to owl, escape and reheal.Or use siamoth to get stealth to skirmish your opponent, get plasma and go absolutely ham while your immune to dmg.F3 on CD? Swap out and swap pets. Reheal, merge and escape.

Its just so adaptive to any situation that i can understand that so many are upset about it.

IMO these things are the reasonable points to be adressed:-Moa stance-Siamoth plasma probabbility (change forage though please)-quadruppeling your boon duration with heal and merge. Fixed duration increade would be a better choice, maybe depending if soulbeast is equipped or not-just the raw stats you gain when being merged is quiet bonkers and maybe need to be split better or just better balanced in general.

In contrast to other opinions though i think that WD needs more mobilty. Vuln and retal can go IMO.Target cap up to 5 would also help (this would mainly affect PvE so why bother not implementing it?)Dagger MH sux and has not real synergy with many soulbeast aspects it needs to be improved.A boon condition playstyles in soulbeast should be possible and currently isnt because of horrible condition traits that perform better in power builds (including predators cunning).Improved marksmanship and sleeker bow play. LB is sluggish comoared to SB and SB just sux due to the lack of range.Overhaul SB, MH weaponry, Dagger OH and OH traits.

I could go on but boi weapons need to be better and dont you dare touch core.

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@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Little off topic: Did he change his avatar so we dont recognoze him as that engineer dude from the other thread? Or did he honestly switched to soulbeast for PvP and roaming?

I noticed that too, but I didn't asked him about this because I don't want make him think I'm watching him.Anyway it is his business, still what he is doing continuously started to be rude and disrespectful vis-a-vis of rangers comunity. Unfortunately no one can stop him and he is free to do whatever he want.I'm still sad I don' have an option to block him, so I can't see his posts anymore.

Its actually a feature missing on these forums. I know some ppl i cant stand either on the forums, just because they never, really never bring any constructive to the table.

Back on Topic:Dont burn me on the stake here when i say that OP is somehwat justified to think that ranger is overtuned, i mean soulbeast is S tier in Competitive duelling and has so many sustain tools.But that lies solely in soulbeast and not in core and definetly not the weaponskills.Shaving down moa in duration and efficacy would bring the build a bit in line with others and i think most rangers agree that this would be the case.

Punishing rangers even further when the pet dies is just freakishly stupid though.I think soulbeast is not so strong because they can revive their pet but rather because they have acces to 4 pets (2 normal and 2 beastmode) which gives them tremendous versatility. They can be fully offensive with a smokescale and evasive at the same time, go in beastmode and smack down like a truck. Get pressured swap to owl, escape and reheal.Or use siamoth to get stealth to skirmish your opponent, get plasma and go absolutely ham while your immune to dmg.F3 on CD? Swap out and swap pets. Reheal, merge and escape.

Its just so adaptive to any situation that i can understand that so many are upset about it.

IMO these things are the reasonable points to be adressed:-Moa stance-Siamoth plasma probabbility (change forage though please)-quadruppeling your boon duration with heal and merge. Fixed duration increade would be a better choice, maybe depending if soulbeast is equipped or not-just the raw stats you gain when being merged is quiet bonkers and maybe need to be split better or just better balanced in general.

In contrast to other opinions though i think that WD needs more mobilty. Vuln and retal can go IMO.Target cap up to 5 would also help (this would mainly affect PvE so why bother not implementing it?)Dagger MH sux and has not real synergy with many soulbeast aspects it needs to be improved.A boon condition playstyles in soulbeast should be possible and currently isn't because of horrible condition traits that perform better in power builds (including predators cunning).Improved marksmanship and sleeker bow play. LB is sluggish compared to SB and SB just sucks due to the lack of range.Overhaul SB, MH weaponry, Dagger OH and OH traits.

I could go on but boi weapons need to be better and don't you dare touch core.

agree with most of what you said except with Moa being overtuned, without plasma on siamoth it wouldn't bring nearly as many benefits ranger can't pump boons out like a guardian and you could have perma fury, regen and high might/protection uptime even without it.

From a PVP perspective Dolyak could be tuned down a bitremove forage completely please, pigs where basically never used prior to boonbeast and if plasma gets nerfed they never will be again

i'd like to see raw merged stats increase and remove damage modifiers on traits. if the idea of the spec is to promote pet merging then let that be the most beneficial.

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@""Prophet.1584"Well moa gives just huge amounts of boon duration and lasts very long.I think with 33% its still in a good spot with current duration and boons.Anet actually didnt had to buff dolyak stance last latch. Dont know why they did that. I think removing the condition dmg reduction again would be better for balance but yeah nerfing a recent buff isnt really likely. Maybe remove the condition immunity so stout oets have a better niche.

The increased stats when merged would be a nice idea. Instead of being good at everything you kinda soecialize into the archetype.Would be interesting IMO and beastmastery wouldn't be a must pick.

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@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@"Dahkeus.8243" said:Dealing with a dead pet is one of the most annoying things to deal with on a ranger.

That being said, I'd say that this would be a fair change. Beastmode is an instant cast and you only have a 10 second window max where you can't transform, so this would give players a reason to watch their pet's health when not transformed.

This wouldn't fix any balance issues with Soulbeasts, but it would at least add a layer of skill to playing the spec.

Is not ONLY 10 seconds max and that's it ... because when you can instant cast into beastmode it is possible that your beastmode skills are on CD. So when Anet thought about the thing a Ranger can go into beastmode even when the pet is dead, they thought also from POV of ability CD.

When you agree with what OP asking for, you must be more open mind than him who every week he didn't do nothing else than put another post "how to nerf ranger" , just because he was beaten so many times by rangers.You should think of this: if pet die and Soulbeast couldn't go in beastmode anymore, basically, you become a core ranger without the 3rd traits line. So you will become a class with only 2 traits lines.

The other idea "If you enter soulbeast when your pets health is 50% then your health becomes your pets' 50% health pool." it is not only nonsense, but it is a stupid idea.Even the concept of merging means two things getting combined which should result in something better than each thing or even more than those things together.But because he didn't understand many things, he doesn't understand that merge thing doesn't mean you (player) transform into your pet, but in something who combine the pet and your body (plus abilities) ... Beastmode doesn't mean the ranger become a pet!

1) Pet death has nothing to do with beastmode cooldowns. If your pet dies, it doesn't put your beastmode abilities on cooldown. If your badly worded sentence is trying to imply that you might enter beastmode in order to prevent a pet death and result in you being in beastmode before your cooldowns have reset, then yea, that's possible and that's a fair nerf.

2) Your blatant ad hominem attack has nothing to do with the argument and is a poor attempt to spin an argument. It doesn't matter what the OP suggested elsewhere or why they suggested it. I am simply responding to the idea of a dead pet preventing beastmode nerf on its own merits and nothing else. You should do the same and take your personal vendetta elsewhere.

3) Yes, causing your health to drop based on your pet's health is a terrible idea.

4) Rangers have always been based around relying on their pets for a substantial amount of their performance. Yes, a lock out of beastmode would make a bigger impact against Soulbeast than a core ranger, but it would be much, much harder to occur because of pet swap.

For a Soulbeast to be completely locked out of beastmode, they would have to have someone kill both of their pets within the 10 second cooldown of beastmode. Otherwise, you could simply swap pets and avoid the penalty entirely. Even if you made the mistake of allowing someone to kill your first pet within beastmode cooldown, you could simply hit swap pet and then immediately go into beastmode.

The only way a Soulbeast could ever get completely locked out of beastmode for more than 10 seconds would be if there was drastic incompetence on the Soulbeast's part. The real penalty to this system is that enemies attacking a pet would produce counterplay that forces a Soulbeast to either enter Beastmode at an inopportune time or to use a different pet than they prefer due to needing to swap pets.

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@Dahkeus.8243 said:1) Pet death has nothing to do with beastmode cooldowns. If your pet dies, it doesn't put your beastmode abilities on cooldown. If your badly worded sentence is trying to imply that you might enter beastmode in order to prevent a pet death and result in you being in beastmode before your cooldowns have reset, then yea, that's possible and that's a fair nerf.

Please read more carefully:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:Is not ONLY 10 seconds max and that's it ... because when you can instant cast into beastmode
it is possible
that your beastmode skills are on CD. So when Anet thought about the thing a Ranger can go into beastmode even when the pet is dead, they thought also from POV of ability CD.

I pointed and mention that, because even when our pet is dead and we go into beastmode, doesn't mean that all the time we will fight at full capacity. That's why I said Anet give us the opportunity to go in beastmode even when the pet is dead, otherwise, for 60 sec till the pet come back, basically, we are a Core Ranger without the 3rd traits line. Simple!

2) Your blatant ad hominem attack has nothing to do with the argument and is a poor attempt to spin an argument. It doesn't matter what the OP suggested elsewhere or why they suggested it. I am simply responding to the idea of a dead pet preventing beastmode nerf on its own merits and nothing else. You should do the same and take your personal vendetta elsewhere.

It is not my personal vendetta, it is just an observation because this guy has nothing else to do than ask for a nerf to the ranger. And if his arguments were ok, I would agree, but as you agree his arguments are bad.

Don't get me wrong, I am agree that all classes must be fixed, but, I do not agree to nerf a class when others would not be nerfed.

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@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Little off topic: Did he change his avatar so we dont recognoze him as that engineer dude from the other thread? Or did he honestly switched to soulbeast for PvP and roaming?

I noticed it too... ;)

That's hillarious.

HES A SOULBEAST NAO!!

Yanno what? I've suddenly changed my mind!

If Pet dies all soulbeasts should be dropped to half healthand if the soulbeast dies while in soulbeast--soulbeast skips downstate!Upon respawn all pets are on a 1 minute cooldown and all dmg while unmerged is halved for 5 minutes.

Anyone else have any amazing ideas?

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