New Race as an instant 80

Let's say that the next Expansion is actually Cantha. I'm also going with Tengu as the fan favorite for a new race and a race that fits the Cantha story best since that's where they're from, so we'll just assume this is the one we get.

What if, rather than building them up like the other races they're an instant 80. Skip starter story, make part of character creation to be to choose which Order they were a member of, then skip most of the low level story, possibly even skip straight to making the pact. Or make the first three starter story chapters all level 80.

The Dominion of the Winds could be introduced as part of the expansion as a level 80 zone, instead of a standard starter zone. But the race itself is a merged instant 80, extra character slot and new race all in one. The expansion comes with one free Tengu, but it's also possible to purchase a Tengu for Gems, if you purchase a Tengu you get their home city and the Dominion of winds, even if you don't have the expansion, you just can't do the story parts that take place there (except Tengu starter story, if there are any.) You don't unlock the ability to have Tengu, you literally purchase the ability to make a single Tengu. It might be too complicated for them, and I don't know how deleting characters would work, but I'm not a programmer, so it's not up to me to flesh out all the bits.

I know the concept of new races comes up all the time, in fact someone else just started another new race post just before I finished this, and also Tengu, and that they said they weren't going to, but I don't believe I've seen this particular idea before, and an expansion needs a hook. It's not an unheard of concept to introduce an auto max level character. This would also allow them to do some old things they had intended, while also moving forward. Obviously the biggest issue with a new race is voice acting. All the lines of old material would have to be redone, twice. That would be a pain, and that might still negate the whole thing. But I think it might be worth it if we have to pay every time we want to make one. They could also just make it so a Tengu literally starts at the expansion, whether you have it or not. If you want to play the personal story, HoT, PoF or any of the previous LS chapters, play it with something else. I'm not sure if that would work either, but it's a possible option.

im always insta lvl 80 with shit load of tome of knownledge being thrown at your face

@reddie.5861 said:im always insta lvl 80 with kitten load of tome of knownledge being thrown at your face

Not really relevant, but cool, thanks for the input

no, let's not add half a new race just so ppl can have a new cosmetic option

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/search?Search=new+race

These thread will never stop, will they?

Having them start at 80 and just select which order they join is not a bad idea. Although I feel like having at least some sort of personal story would be nice to have for lore/RP reasons.

Of the fraction of people that really like playing a new race, what's the appeal?

• Fashion wars — one of the biggest short- and long-term expenses of a new race; the OP's suggestion doesn't address this.
• New lore — another big expense and the OP addresses it by removing all the parts of the game that would go into the most depth about it.
• New voices and dialogue options/variations — another significant expense (likely less than the other two); not addressed by the OP
• Something new that is character specific — there's few ways to appeal to this sort of niche; it's an indirect value with indirect expenses. This is the only aspect of "new race" that benefits from the suggestion, but only because anything that would bring a new race in any form would do so.

I don't believe I've seen this particular idea before,It's come up multiple times. People have suggested nerfing all the various aspect of what defines a new race, a little or a lot. People are so interested in the idea that they mostly give no thought to what it means in the long run to leave those things out.

The short of it is that new races have a niche appeal, although that subset of players is very, very passionate about the idea. But it's unfortunately among the most expensive things to offer, at least if it's going to be done in the manner to which we have become accustomed.

I would be very pleased if the game could afford a new race. But I can't imagine enjoying it if the things I like about playing non-humans were removed, just so we could say, "yeah, new race." That seems like the worst sort of compromise: we get a lot of the expense and lose the sense of why it even matters.

Would certianly make my weekly key running easier since I can just do 3 level 80 chapters of tengu story for the 10, 40 and 60 with my account bound ascended stuff in boxes collecting dust.A bonus would be other living world map completing I might bother with aswell.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Of the fraction of people that really like playing a new race, what's the appeal?

• Fashion wars — one of the biggest short- and long-term expenses of a new race; the OP's suggestion doesn't address this.
• New lore — another big expense and the OP addresses it by removing all the parts of the game that would go into the most depth about it.
• New voices and dialogue options/variations — another significant expense (likely less than the other two); not addressed by the OP
• Something new that is character specific — there's few ways to appeal to this sort of niche; it's an indirect value with indirect expenses. This is the only aspect of "new race" that benefits from the suggestion, but only because anything that would bring a new race in any form would do so.

I don't believe I've seen this particular idea before,It's come up multiple times. People have suggested nerfing all the various aspect of what defines a new race, a little or a lot. People are so interested in the idea that they mostly give no thought to what it means in the long run to leave those things out.

(Warning, ramblings ahead)

As one of the people who want a new playable race, I must say the fashion wars and lore are top reasons for me (lore being my number one). I am well aware of how much work and money they would cost to add. Which is why when I talk about a new race I make sure to say things more along the lines of "It would be nice to have a new race" and "I think playing a new race would be fun" as opposed to "Anet needs to add another race" and "New race when???" I don't want to demand something that I know would be a lot of work and possibly might not bring in enough money to cover the expenses.

When it comes to fashion wars I would be okay if they made the default armour sets for them and then made all the older armor skins look like those to start with and slowly change and add the older skins over time. Like each patch have it be like "updated the dark templar armour skins for Tengu/whatever new race". And at least Tengu would be able to use some of the charr armour skin assets.But at the same time I could see why that might upset people. Someone might make an outfit and then have something change because they didn't know that was one of the skins that wasn't done yet, the forum would probably get flooded with people pushing to have a specific armor set worked on next, or, probably the bigger issue, would be the people complaining and saying anet is releasing unfinished content.

Also I thought of something your list is lacking and that is role play. I am not a role player myself, but I am certain there is plenty of people out there who really badly want to role play as some of these other races, and trying to fashion wars to look like them can only go so far.

When it comes to story they could have a couple chapters that explain why the character left their homeland and join the order they join. Essentially a streamlined version of the normal personal story which only covers what would be different because of the race and finish up with cutscenes that explain the gist of the story up until whatever expansion they add the race with. It might be seen as a cop out to some, but it would keep the devs from having to go back and record voicelines for everything. For living story it should just be that as long as you finished the story with one character you can click a button to unlock a waypoint on that map with the new race (or at least still be able to use the portal scrolls/tomes), so you don't get locked out of locations, just story.

But, in the end, all I can do is express an interest and toss around ideas. I know how big of a project this would be for anet. And I know that what I want may never happen. And I am still okay with that because I still love the game, even if I never get to experience it through the eyes of a different race.

@"Mewcifer.5198" said:Also I thought of something your list is lacking and that is role play. I am not a role player myself, but I am certain there is plenty of people out there who really badly want to role play as some of these other races, and trying to fashion wars to look like them can only go so far.I thought of making a separate line for it; it just seemed to overlap with "character specific new stuff" and "lore."

in the end, all I can do is express an interest and toss around ideas.Sure. That seems sensible.

Unfortunately, posts like the original one here keep coming up in which folks ignore cost & effort issues (including ones that ANet has highlighted). Worse is when people want to gut the core of an idea to get a watered down version of ... something, without realizing that even then it's still not necessarily "affordable." Reducing spending is good; eliminating core concepts at the same time makes the cost:benefit analysis worse, not better :(

@derd.6413 said:no, let's not add half a new race just so ppl can have a new cosmetic option

+1 we need more tome sinks /sTo the op, imo starting at around lvl 75 or so is better, have a sorta starting zome of lvl 75-80 in catha where an indtance or 2 tale part then throw the tengu cjaracter back tk the dominion of winds which acts like city for the tengu race/player hub.

Personally I'd be very disappointed if they added a new race without a new personal story and at least a starter zone because that skips the biggest opportunity to learn about the race, get some of their lore into the game and to make them feel unique from the other races instead of just a cosmetic option.

I understand the thinking that it will make it much easier to do, but to me it's like saying if you can't afford a meal at your favourite restaurant you could go and just order a portion of chips to share. Sure it sounds like you're still getting a little bit of what you like, but in practice I think it would be more disappointing than waiting for the full experience. Especially if it delays (or in this case completely removes) the possibility of getting the full experience later - the chances of them adding a new race are low, the chances of them adding one where you can start at level 80 and then going back and changing that and adding a starter zone, personal story etc. later on are zero.

And if you don't care about the personal story and just want to start at level 80 you have that option by saving up Tomes of Knowledge. I mainly just get them from login rewards and I use them frequently but even I've always got enough to instantly level a character to 80. (Either using just tomes or combining tomes and birthday scrolls.)

I wouldn't object to it, but I'm not sure why this is so in-demand. We have so many race/prof combinations available already. The main problem I see is having to re-model ALL the existing armor items to fit the new race (particularly if it's Tengu, which I'd like but don't think is realistic). If they were able to do it, I'd definitely make one or two Tengu. But I'm not holding my breath.

As much as I want playable Tengu...Even with an instant-80 that skips the main story...

There would still need to be Season 2/HoT/3/PoF/4 and beyond voice acting. Or a lock-out on being able to select those story chapters. They would still have to voice dungeons. And re-fit everything from Charr to Tengu.

It really sucks to admit, but just shaving off some story won't be enough to justify all the persistent costs: 8-12 new voice actors (region x m/f), more time spent on armor sets when they're already slow to produce.

Best I could hope for is an Outfit that looks like Tengu and I'll just pretend. -v-

before i start, let me say i really hate the tengu as a new race, if Anet wants GW2 to stay unique it's better to add a whole new race rather then simply shit an existing one out and allow players to play it.

anyway, i think that, if they add a race, a lower level but close to max would be a better choice.when simply looking at WoW (yes, i know) when they added the demon hunter they start at lvl 98 and have quite an interesting story, they can do the same thing with the new race.in the time you get out of this story you're already lvl 80, allowing you to start right in the thick of battle.the pre story allows for allot of room to tell the story of this race, so it has a personal story but more in a form that fit's this new race.

now some things need to be considered before adding a new race.

1. they need their own custom voice acting that lines up with the others, doesn't have to be a different line of text entirely but they can have the same as others but said differently. (like if i would say "ok people, it's time to kill a dragon" this race could say "it is time to vanquish this foo")
2. don't make the same mistake as the charr, because of the charr we can not have certain things like tail back pieces and cape like pieces, it also disallow the ability to make an outfit and fit it globally. (except for the charr, all outfits are easily adjustable to fit said race)
3. make their home city within the open world, this allows for a more streamlined gameplay and their city doesn't have to be so closed.
4. improvement within the character creation screen, we really need to be allowed to change body features and further customize the face.

Will say it again. MAKE THEM AS COMBAT TONICS all done, I enjoy a lot the endless kodan tonic.

I can probably instant level 12-15 characters to level 80 if I want to. In fact, I probably only leveled 5-6 characters and my roaster has 22 characters at level 80.

Howvever, that would not solve the issue for a new race, with the exception of Tengu. A new race must have all the same stuff the 5 other races currently have. They also have to fit with overall personal story.

Tengu city, Domain of Wind, boarders multiple low level areas. Domain of Wind itself can host a 1-10 leveling area. Also, Tengu nova already exist in the Tyria maps and as enemies. Most of their animations are already in existence.

I think that adding them as a race is a low hanging fruit for Anet. It still requires effort. I think the next major expansion would be prime for such addition.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Unfortunately, posts like the original one here keep coming up in which folks ignore cost & effort issues (including ones that ANet has highlighted). Worse is when people want to gut the core of an idea to get a watered down version of ... something, without realizing that even then it's still not necessarily "affordable." Reducing spending is good; eliminating core concepts at the same time makes the cost:benefit analysis worse, not better :(

That's unfair, I definitely did not come into this ignoring costs. I'm pretty sure I specifically addressed the potential costs in one making it as part of the expense of a new expansion, as well as providing a continuing revenue stream for it, while simultaneously pointing out that the audio alone continues to be a major inhibition. Also, mostly because I wasn't thinking about it, the issue of adjusting all the armors to fit the new body. If Tengu are done that might be easier, assuming the transition from human to norn isn't difficult and so the transition from Charr to Tengu might be similar. But that's an assumption I'm loath to make. I also intentionally threw in several potential options, reducing "core concepts" being only one possible path. Regardless, I'm not even asking for it, I just had an idea I wanted to put down and that I personally hadn't seen expressed before. But I certainly wasn't ignoring it.

@Danikat.8537 said:Personally I'd be very disappointed if they added a new race without a new personal story and at least a starter zone because that skips the biggest opportunity to learn about the race, get some of their lore into the game and to make them feel unique from the other races instead of just a cosmetic option.

I find I get significantly more lore out of starter zones than I do starter story. Of all the personal stories, I think only the Charr ones gave me a better understanding of the race in question. Even still, the Charr starter zone gives me all of that and then some. That is why I introduced the starter zone, even if it's a level 80 starter zone, and even if the story was left out, because that's where the lore really shines.

And if you don't care about the personal story and just want to start at level 80 you have that option by saving up Tomes of Knowledge. I mainly just get them from login rewards and I use them frequently but even I've always got enough to instantly level a character to 80. (Either using just tomes or combining tomes and birthday scrolls.)Also, yes, any long time player has lots of tombs. I could delete all 21 of my characters remake them and have them all level 80 again instantly. I'm honestly not even sure if that's an exaggeration or not. Someone who gets the new expansion as their introduction to the game doesn't have that. Also, no matter how easy it is to level up there are always those who don't even want to do that much. This is just one more option that could be available to that end.

@hugo.4705 said:Will say it again. MAKE THEM AS COMBAT TONICS all done, I enjoy a lot the endless kodan tonic.

Combat tonics do not cover the majority of the reasons people want a new race.

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@hugo.4705 said:Will say it again. MAKE THEM AS COMBAT TONICS all done, I enjoy a lot the endless kodan tonic.

The main thing they have going for them is the amount of work to produce them. So the cost:benefit ratio is good, even though there's little benefit.

Still, if ANet insists (and they do) that a new race isn't happening any time soon, wouldn't tonics be better than nothing at all?

@hugo.4705 said:Will say it again. MAKE THEM AS COMBAT TONICS all done, I enjoy a lot the endless kodan tonic.

I might have been happy with this idea, until mounts happened. Can't mount while using a tonic, so now the whole thing is just a bother.

The way Blizzard did it in WoW and reskin current models and animations kodan=norn, tengu =char, sylvari=largos. Modulate the voices of the current actors so no extra cost there for new ones, they already do that for norn and char. And make the starting area living world episode , who said they should be always max level. Might even make it like a flashback so the new race start as a personal and the ones that are not that race are given the story like someone is retelling it.

I prefer them paying attention and fleshing out the existing playable races before they add new ones. Kitten knows they need it.

@Vancho.8750 said:The way Blizzard did it in WoW and reskin current models and animations kodan=norn, tengu =char, sylvari=largos. Modulate the voices of the current actors so no extra cost there for new ones, they already do that for norn and char. And make the starting area living world episode , who said they should be always max level. Might even make it like a flashback so the new race start as a personal and the ones that are not that race are given the story like someone is retelling it.

Yeah, the Tengu would just use the charr model. They would only need to edit shoes and helmets for the most part, maybe a few other skins that have tail-bits. Same with the kodan and norn, except instead they would change gloves and helmets for claws and bear face. Then it's just a matter of a few sets of cultural armor (if they decide to give them some)

At this point, Anet is better off trying to add combat tonics in the game and allow players to earn skins for these combat tonics.