Where is the Mursaat City? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Where is the Mursaat City?

Gern.2978Gern.2978 Member ✭✭

Did they ever say where the Mursaat city that Saul D'Alessio saw is? It's got to be close to Kryta, given that he walked to it. But I certainly don't know of any Mursaat cities nearby, certainly none that look like he described with "golden towers that reach to the heavens."

Comments

  • It's never stated. But given where we've explored, the only possible location would be the Woodland Cascades (makes sense Saul would be exiled up there rather than the Maguuma as folks so long thought) or Saul somehow wandered through a mursaat teleporter while delirious and the city was someplace much further (like Janthir).

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  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gern.2978 said:
    Did they ever say where the Mursaat city that Saul D'Alessio saw is? It's got to be close to Kryta, given that he walked to it. But I certainly don't know of any Mursaat cities nearby, certainly none that look like he described with "golden towers that reach to the heavens."

    I would think possibly around the area of Bastion of the penitent. During the raid it’s advised that they could be phasing in and out of Tyria.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    It's never stated. But given where we've explored, the only possible location would be the Woodland Cascades (makes sense Saul would be exiled up there rather than the Maguuma as folks so long thought) or Saul somehow wandered through a mursaat teleporter while delirious and the city was someplace much further (like Janthir).

    Not surprised if was through a teleporter / portal

    the only clues were got were

    1. he got caught by the local authority for robbing merchants traveling on the road from Beetletun to Shaemoor, so this gives clues to where the local authority could be.
    2. the local authorities blindfolded him and rode him out three full weeks before leaving him to fend for himself; 3 weeks on horse back could be pretty far west / south west.
    3. Saul wandered through a dense forest for several days, surviving on only roots and berries. (and possibly pretty naked on the feet as well, so may not have gone far) On the fourth day, delirious with hunger, Saul emerged from the trees to see what he thought was a hallucination—a city of massive towers reaching into the heavens.
    4. Although the Mursaat were alive long before the Exodus of the Gods, it wasn't until after the Guild Wars they were discovered in a "dense forest", likely somewhere near the Ullen River by the Krytan exile Saul D'Alessio.

    i would not be surprised if Saul told lies to conceal the real location of Mursaat city

    • either he could be killed by Mursaat
    • the only point of contact Mursaat leaderships, thus he's a VIP, no one would want to challenge his position within the White Mantles


    but... I would not be surprised if Tarir was the Mursaat city

    • The majority of Mursaats were killed by the end of the Krystan Civil War, which ended during 1079 AE
    • After creating the first Exalted (about 200 years ago before HoT), the Forgotten split into two groups. One group traveled to the Heart of Maguuma
    • Exalted went into hybernation about 150 years prior to HoT, so the time for them to build Tarir isnt very long, about 50-100 years
    • There were only few Forgottens, and isnt a lot of Exalted, building of Tarir from ground up would have a long time

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  • @crepuscular.9047 said:
    4. Although the Mursaat were alive long before the Exodus of the Gods, it wasn't until after the Guild Wars they were discovered in a "dense forest", likely somewhere near the Ullen River by the Krytan exile Saul D'Alessio.

    The Ullen River bit comes purely from a very, very vague sentence:

    "Its real name is Ullen River, but those of us who know it best never call it that. It's the Dark River to us. Dark as in absence of light, yes but that's only part of it. A shadow lies over that region, and it is cast by something...unseen, I suppose you could say."
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Old_Joness
    Which doesn't really amount for much.

    Besides which, we cover the Ullen River in GW2's Metrica Province, and no structures exist.

    i would not be surprised if Saul told lies to conceal the real location of Mursaat city

    • either he could be killed by Mursaat
    • the only point of contact Mursaat leaderships, thus he's a VIP, no one would want to challenge his position within the White Mantles

    At the time, Saul had believed the mursaat to be benevolent saviors, not backstabbing tyrannical murderers. So there would be no reason for Saul to lie.

    but... I would not be surprised if Tarir was the Mursaat city

    • The majority of Mursaats were killed by the end of the Krystan Civil War, which ended during 1079 AE
    • After creating the first Exalted (about 200 years ago before HoT), the Forgotten split into two groups. One group traveled to the Heart of Maguuma
    • Exalted went into hybernation about 150 years prior to HoT, so the time for them to build Tarir isnt very long, about 50-100 years
    • There were only few Forgottens, and isnt a lot of Exalted, building of Tarir from ground up would have a long time

    Tarir was built by the Forgotten/Exalted after the events of GW1, by at least 50 years. This is canon lore. We even visit the areas in GW1, and there is no city. 50 years is plenty of time to build a city and several outposts when you're not constructing by hand but by magically molding stone into pyrite.

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  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭

    Building off the Ullen River being in what is now Metrica Province and the Caledon Forest, I think I have the answer.

    When the Asura were early in their development, they were prone to taking over existing Mursaat structures. The wiki notes that Rata Sum was built over the "ruins of some previous civilization" which were "already fortified". Could Rata Sum now be where Saul's Mursaat city used to be? Suddenly the "Mursaat = Rata Sum" anagram seems like it might be actually meaningful...

    Checking dates, the Mursaat were mostly gone after the Krytan Civil War ended around 1079 CE; Primordus awakened in 1120 CE and forced the Asura up and out, and they founded Rata Sum some relatively short time after that. So there's roughly a 40-50 year gap between the fall of the Mursaat and the rise of Rata Sum -- plenty of time for the Mursaat city to have fallen to ruins before the Asura arrived.

    Further reinforcing that, the White Mantle's Temple of the Unseen in GW1, is now the Ruins of the Unseen in Caledon Forest, right next door to Metrica and again around the Ullen River. Geographic proximity suggests a connection, perhaps the White Mantle wanting to be as close to their gods as they were allowed.

    I think that's it. Saul's Mursaat city was abandoned after the Krytan Civil War, then the displaced Asura moved into the ruins and obliterated them by building Rata Sum.

    Thoughts?

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2019

    @Jimbru.6014 said:
    Building off the Ullen River being in what is now Metrica Province and the Caledon Forest, I think I have the answer.

    When the Asura were early in their development, they were prone to taking over existing Mursaat structures. The wiki notes that Rata Sum was built over the "ruins of some previous civilization" which were "already fortified". Could Rata Sum now be where Saul's Mursaat city used to be? Suddenly the "Mursaat = Rata Sum" anagram seems like it might be actually meaningful...

    Checking dates, the Mursaat were mostly gone after the Krytan Civil War ended around 1079 CE; Primordus awakened in 1120 CE and forced the Asura up and out, and they founded Rata Sum some relatively short time after that. So there's roughly a 40-50 year gap between the fall of the Mursaat and the rise of Rata Sum -- plenty of time for the Mursaat city to have fallen to ruins before the Asura arrived.

    Further reinforcing that, the White Mantle's Temple of the Unseen in GW1, is now the Ruins of the Unseen in Caledon Forest, right next door to Metrica and again around the Ullen River. Geographic proximity suggests a connection, perhaps the White Mantle wanting to be as close to their gods as they were allowed.

    I think that's it. Saul's Mursaat city was abandoned after the Krytan Civil War, then the displaced Asura moved into the ruins and obliterated them by building Rata Sum.

    Thoughts?

    The Asura made a surfacing in 1078 during EOTN where we encountered those ruins and they started to take over that area and establish an early Rata Sum. Its been long speculated to be a Mursaat city ever since GW1, but I feel like ive read a debunking of this theory a few times over the years. I just cant place what that is.

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  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would say it’s likely he wandered along the coastlines of the woodland cascades and “emerged from the trees” when he started heading toward janthir. If he traveled far enough north (like the very edge of our map or maybe even a little further) he could have crossed on foot.

    Ultimately though I wouldn’t imagine them in the woodland cascades. If we ever get that region as an expansion (please Anet), I would expect/want to see some centaurs, but mostly whatever threat is pushing them out. Probably a new race we haven’t seen yet, or could be demons leaking out of the mists, made worse by kralk’s activities.

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  • Gern.2978Gern.2978 Member ✭✭

    @Jimbru.6014 said:
    Building off the Ullen River being in what is now Metrica Province and the Caledon Forest, I think I have the answer.

    When the Asura were early in their development, they were prone to taking over existing Mursaat structures. The wiki notes that Rata Sum was built over the "ruins of some previous civilization" which were "already fortified". Could Rata Sum now be where Saul's Mursaat city used to be? Suddenly the "Mursaat = Rata Sum" anagram seems like it might be actually meaningful...

    Checking dates, the Mursaat were mostly gone after the Krytan Civil War ended around 1079 CE; Primordus awakened in 1120 CE and forced the Asura up and out, and they founded Rata Sum some relatively short time after that. So there's roughly a 40-50 year gap between the fall of the Mursaat and the rise of Rata Sum -- plenty of time for the Mursaat city to have fallen to ruins before the Asura arrived.

    Further reinforcing that, the White Mantle's Temple of the Unseen in GW1, is now the Ruins of the Unseen in Caledon Forest, right next door to Metrica and again around the Ullen River. Geographic proximity suggests a connection, perhaps the White Mantle wanting to be as close to their gods as they were allowed.

    I think that's it. Saul's Mursaat city was abandoned after the Krytan Civil War, then the displaced Asura moved into the ruins and obliterated them by building Rata Sum.

    Thoughts?

    I really like this theory. I know people have often claimed that Rata Sum is itself a Mursaat city, but I never bought that because it's clearly built by the Asura. It looks nothing like something the Mursaat would have built based on what we've seen of their architecture. But it would make sense if Rata Sum was built ON TOP of the Mursaat city. This is kind of reinforced by the Asura really not wanting anyone to go below the cube. If you try, you get instantly teleported into jail.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2019

    @Jimbru.6014 said:
    Building off the Ullen River being in what is now Metrica Province and the Caledon Forest, I think I have the answer.

    When the Asura were early in their development, they were prone to taking over existing Mursaat structures. The wiki notes that Rata Sum was built over the "ruins of some previous civilization" which were "already fortified". Could Rata Sum now be where Saul's Mursaat city used to be? Suddenly the "Mursaat = Rata Sum" anagram seems like it might be actually meaningful...

    Checking dates, the Mursaat were mostly gone after the Krytan Civil War ended around 1079 CE; Primordus awakened in 1120 CE and forced the Asura up and out, and they founded Rata Sum some relatively short time after that. So there's roughly a 40-50 year gap between the fall of the Mursaat and the rise of Rata Sum -- plenty of time for the Mursaat city to have fallen to ruins before the Asura arrived.

    Further reinforcing that, the White Mantle's Temple of the Unseen in GW1, is now the Ruins of the Unseen in Caledon Forest, right next door to Metrica and again around the Ullen River. Geographic proximity suggests a connection, perhaps the White Mantle wanting to be as close to their gods as they were allowed.

    I think that's it. Saul's Mursaat city was abandoned after the Krytan Civil War, then the displaced Asura moved into the ruins and obliterated them by building Rata Sum.

    Thoughts?

    There would actually only be a 6 year difference. The mursaat were mostly wiped out in 1072 AE, while the asura surfaced in 1078 AE. Primordus did wake in 1120 AE, but it was the Great Destroyer who forced the asura to surface; Primordus just kept them from their resettling attempts.

    In addition to that, there are no ruins near the Ullen River; they were further south, quite a bit away from the Krytan influences in the Tarnished Coast (namely Tarnished Haven, which was a settlement established by Krytan exiles). However, there's a major thing countering the belief that the ruins are of mursaat origin - in addition to the fact that it doesn't come close to the designs of the Ring of Fire structures or Bastion of the Penitent there is also, as I say to Randulf down below:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    The Asura made a surfacing in 1078 during EOTN where we encountered those ruins and they started to take over that area and establish an early Rata Sum. Its been long speculated to be a Mursaat city ever since GW1, but I feel like ive read a debunking of this theory a few times over the years. I just cant place what that is.

    AFAIK, there is no explicit confirmation either way, but the GW1 ruins used the same exact art assets as we saw with the Central Transfer Chamber, and Rata Pten, a pre-Cataclysm surface asura city, uses the same designs as the few similar ruins in GW2 left (which are also present in the cave in eastern Straits of Devastation).

    In addition, it's stated in the EotN manual that the asura had once been on the surface "centuries ago" which would match the TC ruins being, well, ruins if they were asura in origin.

    It's very likely the structures are asura in origin given these three facts.

    @Fenom.9457 said:
    I would say it’s likely he wandered along the coastlines of the woodland cascades and “emerged from the trees” when he started heading toward janthir. If he traveled far enough north (like the very edge of our map or maybe even a little further) he could have crossed on foot.

    Ultimately though I wouldn’t imagine them in the woodland cascades. If we ever get that region as an expansion (please Anet), I would expect/want to see some centaurs, but mostly whatever threat is pushing them out. Probably a new race we haven’t seen yet, or could be demons leaking out of the mists, made worse by kralk’s activities.

    Janthir is an island. The GW2 world map doesn't show it, but the GW1 map does pretty clearly. It also looks fairly barren, being colored similarly as the Ring of Fire but without red for lava. So there'd be no forests on the island more than likely, thus countering Saul finding the city through foliage.

    Not sure why you wouldn't imagine them in the Woodland Cascades when they have a prison built there. If they have one structure there, there's a good chance of a second.

    As for what's pushing the centaurs out of their lands: Jormag pushing south and humans (thanks to Zhaitan) pushing north are the listed causes. This suggests there are no centaurs in Woodland Cascades, and arguably that the area is not very fit for centaurs (dense jungles probably aren't ideal for horses so likely probably not ideal for centaurs). Certainly wouldn't be demons made worse by Kralkatorrik given that the centaur issue is older than Kralkatorrik's time awake, let alone the time he had the ability to enter the Mists.

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  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenom.9457 said:
    I would say it’s likely he wandered along the coastlines of the woodland cascades and “emerged from the trees” when he started heading toward janthir. If he traveled far enough north (like the very edge of our map or maybe even a little further) he could have crossed on foot.

    Ultimately though I wouldn’t imagine them in the woodland cascades. If we ever get that region as an expansion (please Anet), I would expect/want to see some centaurs, but mostly whatever threat is pushing them out. Probably a new race we haven’t seen yet, or could be demons leaking out of the mists, made worse by kralk’s activities.

    Janthir is an island. The GW2 world map doesn't show it, but the GW1 map does pretty clearly. It also looks fairly barren, being colored similarly as the Ring of Fire but without red for lava. So there'd be no forests on the island more than likely, thus countering Saul finding the city through foliage.

    Not sure why you wouldn't imagine them in the Woodland Cascades when they have a prison built there. If they have one structure there, there's a good chance of a second.

    As for what's pushing the centaurs out of their lands: Jormag pushing south and humans (thanks to Zhaitan) pushing north are the listed causes. This suggests there are no centaurs in Woodland Cascades, and arguably that the area is not very fit for centaurs (dense jungles probably aren't ideal for horses so likely probably not ideal for centaurs). Certainly wouldn't be demons made worse by Kralkatorrik given that the centaur issue is older than Kralkatorrik's time awake, let alone the time he had the ability to enter the Mists.

    I know janthir is a barren island, but the Mursaat could have built a fortress there. And as for the trees I meant he was in the woodland cascades for a while but him emerging was him heading towards janthir. Maybe it doesn’t match up perfectly but on the other hand Saul’s story could be exaggerated or false anyway...

    And regarding the demons, I meant that they had been there for a long time (probably more of what was in bastion), but kralkatorrik messing up the mists grabbed the attention of more. Although on second thoughts, demons being provoked because of kralk and demons from bastion/Mursaat related would be better off as different invasions.

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  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    In addition to that, there are no ruins near the Ullen River; they were further south, quite a bit away from the Krytan influences in the Tarnished Coast (namely Tarnished Haven, which was a settlement established by Krytan exiles). However, there's a major thing countering the belief that the ruins are of mursaat origin - in addition to the fact that it doesn't come close to the designs of the Ring of Fire structures or Bastion of the Penitent there is also, as I say to Randulf down below:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    The Asura made a surfacing in 1078 during EOTN where we encountered those ruins and they started to take over that area and establish an early Rata Sum. Its been long speculated to be a Mursaat city ever since GW1, but I feel like ive read a debunking of this theory a few times over the years. I just cant place what that is.

    AFAIK, there is no explicit confirmation either way, but the GW1 ruins used the same exact art assets as we saw with the Central Transfer Chamber, and Rata Pten, a pre-Cataclysm surface asura city, uses the same designs as the few similar ruins in GW2 left (which are also present in the cave in eastern Straits of Devastation).

    “I spoke with Jeff Grubb about this and here is what we have to say: The architecture of the Tarnished Coast is a combination of preexisting architecture with Asuran modifications. Who that preexisting architecture belonged to? We don't yet know. It could have been Orrian, the Seers or even the Mursaat. That is yet to be discovered, but one thing is for sure, there was once a civilization situated in the Tarnished Coast before the Asura arrived there. :D - User Linsey Murdock sig.jpgLinsey talk 22:54, 2 June 2008 (UTC)”

    That’s the quote from Lindsey regarding the ruins.

  • @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    In addition to that, there are no ruins near the Ullen River; they were further south, quite a bit away from the Krytan influences in the Tarnished Coast (namely Tarnished Haven, which was a settlement established by Krytan exiles). However, there's a major thing countering the belief that the ruins are of mursaat origin - in addition to the fact that it doesn't come close to the designs of the Ring of Fire structures or Bastion of the Penitent there is also, as I say to Randulf down below:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    The Asura made a surfacing in 1078 during EOTN where we encountered those ruins and they started to take over that area and establish an early Rata Sum. Its been long speculated to be a Mursaat city ever since GW1, but I feel like ive read a debunking of this theory a few times over the years. I just cant place what that is.

    AFAIK, there is no explicit confirmation either way, but the GW1 ruins used the same exact art assets as we saw with the Central Transfer Chamber, and Rata Pten, a pre-Cataclysm surface asura city, uses the same designs as the few similar ruins in GW2 left (which are also present in the cave in eastern Straits of Devastation).

    “I spoke with Jeff Grubb about this and here is what we have to say: The architecture of the Tarnished Coast is a combination of preexisting architecture with Asuran modifications. Who that preexisting architecture belonged to? We don't yet know. It could have been Orrian, the Seers or even the Mursaat. That is yet to be discovered, but one thing is for sure, there was once a civilization situated in the Tarnished Coast before the Asura arrived there. :D - User Linsey Murdock sig.jpgLinsey talk 22:54, 2 June 2008 (UTC)”

    That’s the quote from Lindsey regarding the ruins.

    Not explicit confirmation one way or the other, still. Besides, asura could have been there there before the asura of 1078 AE arrived.

    Doesn't contradict the fact that the ziggurat discovered during O Brave New World quest is the exact same as the ziggurat of the Central Transfer Chamber, and that ArenaNet had different-but-similar art assets to use which they did throughout the rest of the Depths of Tyria. Given the asura's tendency to keep their knowledge and inventions secret, a colony could have easily been built, developed a slightly different style, died out, and long forgotten by the rest of asurankind.

    Besides, we know that the asura were on the surface once before 1078 AE. Aside from Rata Pten, we don't know where they might've been, and the Tarnished Coast is surely possible.

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  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    In addition to that, there are no ruins near the Ullen River; they were further south, quite a bit away from the Krytan influences in the Tarnished Coast (namely Tarnished Haven, which was a settlement established by Krytan exiles).

    Not entirely- there's another Krytan village in the Magus Stones, west of Rata Sum. That positioning makes it unlikely that the site would've gone unnoticed, though; even if they couldn't see the inhabitants, a city like Saul described would've set rumors going like wildfires.

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  • I don't recall a Krytan village in Magus Stones. And according to the wiki, the only humans in Magus Stones were dead Shining Blade.

    There were hylek villages, though. And some more of those ruins.

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  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019

    Right. In the south-east corner, near the Alcazia Tangle exit, there's a village populated with dead Shining Blade and live krait. (Pretty clear-cut environmental storytelling there.) There's also a crazy spider lady off in the south-west, but there's nothing linking her to the site save proximity.

    While the structures are, as far as I know, unique models- they look like someone took the foundations of the ruins in the region and built human-style huts on them- they certainly aren't close to the hylek or asura styles, and the krait didn't have architecture in GW1. And while the only corpses there are Shining Blade, unless the rebels started resettlement initiatives in the middle of the civil war, they didn't build it either. The most likely answer seems to be that it was a Krytan-origin village, like Tarnished Haven and like Ronan's village before the war, that the Shining Blade got involved with defending and/or retaking.

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  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:
    Right. In the south-east corner, near the Alcazia Tangle exit, there's a village populated with dead Shining Blade and live krait. (Pretty clear-cut environmental storytelling there.) There's also a crazy spider lady off in the south-west, but there's nothing linking her to the site save proximity.

    While the structures are, as far as I know, unique models- they look like someone took the foundations of the ruins in the region and built human-style huts on them- they certainly aren't close to the hylek or asura styles, and the krait didn't have architecture in GW1. And while the only corpses there are Shining Blade, unless the rebels started resettlement initiatives in the middle of the civil war, they didn't build it either. The most likely answer seems to be that it was a Krytan-origin village, like Tarnished Haven and like Ronan's village before the war, that the Shining Blade got involved with defending and/or retaking.

    Ah yes, I remember that area and always found it a little odd.

  • alcopaul.2156alcopaul.2156 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019

    Saul D' Allesio resonates the Story of Saint Paul of Tarsus. He was blind then Jesus Christ [Head of the Mursaats] showed himself to him and he was a changed man.

    and yeah, Saint Paul's previous name, yeah, was Saul.

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  • @alcopaul.2156 said:
    Saul D' Allesio resonates the Story of Saint Paul of Tarsus. He was blind then Jesus Christ [Head of the Mursaats] showed himself to him and he was a changed man.

    and yeah, Saint Paul's previous name, yeah, was Saul.

    I knew Jesus was evil.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:

    @alcopaul.2156 said:
    Saul D' Allesio resonates the Story of Saint Paul of Tarsus. He was blind then Jesus Christ [Head of the Mursaats] showed himself to him and he was a changed man.

    and yeah, Saint Paul's previous name, yeah, was Saul.

    I knew Jesus was evil.

    That’s not really what you’re supposed to take from that...

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  • @Fenom.9457 said:

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:

    @alcopaul.2156 said:
    Saul D' Allesio resonates the Story of Saint Paul of Tarsus. He was blind then Jesus Christ [Head of the Mursaats] showed himself to him and he was a changed man.

    and yeah, Saint Paul's previous name, yeah, was Saul.

    I knew Jesus was evil.

    That’s not really what you’re supposed to take from that...

    That's the joke.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:

    @alcopaul.2156 said:
    Saul D' Allesio resonates the Story of Saint Paul of Tarsus. He was blind then Jesus Christ [Head of the Mursaats] showed himself to him and he was a changed man.

    and yeah, Saint Paul's previous name, yeah, was Saul.

    I knew Jesus was evil.

    That’s not really what you’re supposed to take from that...

    That's the joke.

    sorry that totally flew over my head. I've been feeling slower the last few days

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  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2019

    Something just clicked in my head about Saul's description of the city he found: massive golden towers "reaching to the heavens". That doesn't match Mursaat architecture as we know it in game, but leaving aside aesthetics for a more practical point: a structure "reaching to the heavens" as Saul describes would be visible pretty much from the horizon. Difficult to believe such a huge structure could go unnoticed for ages, even in a forest. Obviously one could say the Mursaat concealed it with magic, and/or that the city didn't entirely exist in Tyrian reality, and/or poor Saul was just out of his mind and saw what he wanted to see. But even so, the basic point is that it's hard to imagine such a huge thing just being "discovered" by a starving madman wandering through a forest. Which means it was either incredibly remote, or it wasn't really in Tyria as some of you have suggested.

    Speaking of which, the Krytan authorities took him three weeks out into what they thought was a remote forest and turned him loose in "exile" for what was effectively a death sentence, so safe to say he probably wasn't equipped for wilderness survival. Doing a 20 mile hike in one day following roads is relatively easy; I've done that myself in Boy Scouts. But hiking up hill and down dale through unpathed forest, especially if you're not equipped for it and barely surviving off the land, is way different. Safe to say he didn't get very far from where he was dropped off. Which makes it doubly strange that the Mursaat city would be completely unknown, since it apparently would have only been a few miles at most from the reaches of Krytan civilization.

    Another thing that bugs me: in Saul's description, he specifically uses the word "forest". Not "jungle" or "Maguuma" or anything like that. That would seem to imply that he was somewhere more temperate, albeit warm enough to survive outside in scrounged shelter. The Caledon FOREST has that name today, but it's part of the Maguuma Jungle and the terrain is definitely jungle and swamp, not the common definition of coniferous or deciduous "forest" to most people. Same with Metrica, or even Brisban Wildlands. All of which are really too close to Kryta to hide a city -- especially not one "reaching to the heavens" that might be visible for miles.

    Based on all that, I'm now buying into the Woodland Cascades idea. The Bastion of the Penitent is said to be located far north of Central Tyria, and the gate to it is in Bloodstone Fen. Possibly then, is the Bastion of the Penitent actually the dungeons of Saul's city in the Woodland Cascades? Just a thought...

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jimbru.6014 said:
    Based on all that, I'm now buying into the Woodland Cascades idea. The Bastion of the Penitent is said to be located far north of Central Tyria, and the gate to it is in Bloodstone Fen. Possibly then, is the Bastion of the Penitent actually the dungeons of Saul's city in the Woodland Cascades? Just a thought...

    Bastion of the Penitent is on our World Map in-game btw. It is in the Woodland Cascades, on the coast directly north from Lake Doric.

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