Mesmer and the baby dingus — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Mesmer and the baby dingus

Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

Perhaps the community is trying to tell you something Anet.
Ignore?
Fine....

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67509/we-nerfed-mirages-in-the-recent-patch#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67574/countless-pvp-mesmer-suggestions#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67839/anet-the-mirage-cloak-mechanic-should-be-against-your-combat-philosophy#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66881/how-do-people-decide-that-mirage-is-op-its-not-op-a-defense-of-the-cyber-bullied-class#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67829/the-problem-with-condi-mirage-is-not-any-one-thing-its-all-the-things#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57248/condi-mirage-feedback-merged#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67729/stop-mesmer-never-ending-nerfs-rework-save-mesmer#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67745/thoughts-on-power-mirage-vs-condi-mirage#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67258/any-tips-versus-mirage#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67324/condi-mirage-has-an-unfair-advantage-over-renegade#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67238/17k-power-damage-from-confusing-images#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67204/mirage#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66848/day-2-mirage-power-skill-dont-need-it#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67267/mesmer-is-still-freecasting-by-the-way#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66961/often-seeing-4-mirages-per-game#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67075/when-you-select-mesmer-on-character-creation#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67068/mirage-reveal-removal#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66687/mesmer-just-got-passively-buffed-o-o#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66417/mirage-should-be-able-to-dodge-while-downed#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65455/mesmer-utility-and-damage#latest

Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Bring back Impending Dhuum.
No FotM for me, only thief, weak or strong.

<1

Comments

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2019

    I haven’t looked at all of them but did you also post the mirage topics that got posted in the WvW and General Forum?

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Perhaps it isn't being ignored and there is a reason there is a merged topic? It's hard to read feedback is scattered in the 10+ threads that pop up daily.

    More new threads doesn't make anything go faster.

  • 12 stacks of confusion and 24 torments in a matter of seconds. NICE DODGE BAITS YOU GUYS HAVE. Sigh.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It's hard to read feedback is scattered in the 10+ threads that pop up daily.

    tbh it's easier to find things in 10 different threads than to try and read a 100 page megathread.

    I wouldn't be so sure when almost all of those 10 threads don't offer constructive feedback and are people venting.

    It also clogs up the forum and finding something interesting becomes difficult since a majority everything is non constructive feedback about why a class is OP.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It's hard to read feedback is scattered in the 10+ threads that pop up daily.

    tbh it's easier to find things in 10 different threads than to try and read a 100 page megathread.

    I wouldn't be so sure when almost all of those 10 threads don't offer constructive feedback and are people venting.

    It also clogs up the forum and finding something interesting becomes difficult since a majority everything is non constructive feedback about why a class is OP.

    Ultimately, the knowledgable portion of the community has identified 3x problems:

    • Infinite Horizon
    • Illusionary Ambush
    • Axes of Symmetry

    Just ignore discussion that hovers outside of these 3 things.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I thought infinite horislzon was far better than un-nerfed illusive mind, and I don't even play mesmer/mirage

  • rank eleven monk.9502rank eleven monk.9502 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2019

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    I thought infinite horislzon was far better than un-nerfed illusive mind, and I don't even play mesmer/mirage

    Very situational. It's not a this-or-that question. The same was true before and after the nerf.
    Personally in most cases I also preferred IH.

    Also thread is pointless, why open a thread about a lot of spammy threads anyway?

  • Abazigal.3679Abazigal.3679 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It's hard to read feedback is scattered in the 10+ threads that pop up daily.

    tbh it's easier to find things in 10 different threads than to try and read a 100 page megathread.

    I wouldn't be so sure when almost all of those 10 threads don't offer constructive feedback and are people venting.

    It also clogs up the forum and finding something interesting becomes difficult since a majority everything is non constructive feedback about why a class is OP.

    Ultimately, the knowledgable portion of the community has identified 3x problems:

    • Infinite Horizon
    • Illusionary Ambush
    • Axes of Symmetry

    Just ignore discussion that hovers outside of these 3 things.

    These are problems that would be solved by numbers, i'm not sure it's going to have that a big impact on the average gold player when we look at scourge or reaper for example.
    People still drop like flies to conditions. If they simply removed crippling/snare condition, this would have been much less annoying, without really nerfing scourge potential at all.

    That's the same related to mesmer, i'm convinced keeping the build like it is, but removing the distorsion, will have it's impact without touching so much at mechanics/build.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭

    after much suffering I joined the team, I thought it would be hard to catch up, but really, it's super easy to pay. I went from 50% winrate to 90% with condi mirage. You know you will all your duels against any other class aside from soulbeast and holos, sometimes core guardian, all the other match ups is like 95% chance against those classes is 50-60% as I still win more than I lose. Grabbing a new class should be hard at first, but mesmer is so broken that you just run on ppl. The only duels I lose is for more exp mesmers.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    I haven’t looked at all of them but did you also post the mirage topics that got posted in the WvW and General Forum?

    Oh Coni Mirage is 10x more busted marginally in comparison to other classes in wvw than it is in spvp.

    • Food that grants +40% passive endurance regeneration
    • Energy Sigils that still grant +50% endurance on swap
    • Adventure Rune granting full +50% endurance on heal use
    • Trailblazer stats
    • PvE sigil options

    Usually resulting in a sheer 60+ seconds of literally complete immunity to all forms of damage, due to this endless pit of endurance regen and mirage cloaks, along with clone ambush skill usage that is far too frequent even begin to consider is anywhere in the realm in the balance. You can't 1v1 this spec in wvw. Most people can't even kill it 3v1, and it isn't because they are bad, it's because the endless well of endurance & mirage cloaks and trailblazer stats, buys plenty of time to teleport around and disengage into a keep.

    This isn't entirely true and certainly not 10x let alone 10x compared to other classes. All classes can (and do) run these sigils and food giving them more dodges too.

    What is truly busted in WvW small scale are rangers.

    You know how druids were extremely obnoxious with CA on 10s CD and ancient seeds on 10s CD? They're still like that in WvW so you can never kill a tanky one and it will lock you down eventually with the pet killing you.

    Soulbeast actually got buffed, moa stance is still 25s CD and Dolyak stance is still 30s CD and saw the buffs PvP received too. It's at a point where if a soulbeast is using the above sigils, food and runes they can be in an evade frame almost as much as mesmer while enjoying -54% damage taken every 30s.

    Also trailblazer stats? LUL that's like paper with the amount of damage going around atm or have you missed the people complaining about being hit for 7k+ on minstrels guardians that have 3.4k armour.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Stance
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance

    I will agree condition mirage is stronger in WvW, I'll agree it's a strong 1v1 spec (loses value in fights of 3+) but it is by far not alone in how strong it is where soulbeasts, warriors and holosmiths actually dominate the roaming scene in T1-T2 EU with revs coming in with duos and above. Remember revs might stacking isn't nerfed, photon forge damage is significantly higher and likewise stance nerfs weren't brought to WvW.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Soulbeast actually got buffed, moa stance is still 25s CD and Dolyak stance is still 30s CD and saw the buffs PvP received too. It's at a point where if a soulbeast is using the above sigils, food and runes they can be in an evade frame almost as much as mesmer while enjoying -54% damage taken every 30s.

    First of all you're ruining Trevor's narrative, what kind of a heartless man are you?

    Secondly sb has a potential vigor uptime higher than chaosless mirage and on top of it has natural vigor trait.

    Edit: scrap chaosless, even with chaos sb still has more vigor

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2019

    Delete please

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Soulbeast actually got buffed, moa stance is still 25s CD and Dolyak stance is still 30s CD and saw the buffs PvP received too. It's at a point where if a soulbeast is using the above sigils, food and runes they can be in an evade frame almost as much as mesmer while enjoying -54% damage taken every 30s.

    First of all you're ruining Trevor's narrative, what kind of a heartless man are you?

    Secondly sb has a potential vigor uptime higher than chaosless mirage and on top of it has natural vigor trait.

    Edit: scrap chaosless, even with chaos sb still has more vigor

    The worst part is I already had to post this in response to him once before. I will keep posting this till we see PvP balance brought entirely to WvW or it changes significantly enough to not be true.

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mirage has been busted even before the rework they gotten.

    The fact they can kitten out so much confusion and torment is what makes them really aid to fight against. You Can have Posion, Confusion, Burning and torment on you every 10-15 seconds. It Doesn't Matter how Fast You cleanse them before they start to really stack up on you eventually they are going to beat you into losing the node or die for trying to hold it. WAY to much condi pressure within a SHORT period is what makes it annoying to deal with this class.

    On the right side of hands this class can kitten on almost any other class..... however on the hands of an idiot that's just spamming everything without really paying attention it wont be as bad to deal with but at this point it doesn't really matter. No condi class should be able to have this much pressure . Look at how bad scourge was when they had the same issue as mirage with the amount of condi pressure they can spit out. Why Not just do the same exact thing to mirage?

    They been ignore for way to long in terms of actually resolving the issue with their condi dps out put, and the nerf to portal was 100% the worse thing they could of done for the game imo. Not only did it kill team play strategies but it openly gave mirage an entire new slot to be stronger overall for fights. I would happily love to see portal back and some traits reworked a bit on Core mesmer such as Chaos and Illusion.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2019

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    They been ignore for way to long in terms of actually resolving the issue with their condi dps out put, and the nerf to portal was 100% the worse thing they could of done for the game imo. Not only did it kill team play strategies but it openly gave mirage an entire new slot to be stronger overall for fights. I would happily love to see portal back and some traits reworked a bit on Core mesmer such as Chaos and Illusion.

    They've been ignored in terms of condi dps output because clueless people derailed the attention to some other aspects that were not the cause of the "opness" while mesmers being saying for ages that the problem is that condi output you speak about.
    And you already aknowledged that with the portal nerf example that was one of the latest (pre-nerf patch) demands of those clueless people.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It's hard to read feedback is scattered in the 10+ threads that pop up daily.

    tbh it's easier to find things in 10 different threads than to try and read a 100 page megathread.

    I wouldn't be so sure when almost all of those 10 threads don't offer constructive feedback and are people venting.

    It also clogs up the forum and finding something interesting becomes difficult since a majority everything is non constructive feedback about why a class is OP.

    Ultimately, the knowledgable portion of the community has identified 3x problems:

    • Infinite Horizon
    • Illusionary Ambush
    • Axes of Symmetry

    Just ignore discussion that hovers outside of these 3 things.

    Honestly I'd like if they just removed Torment from Mesmer.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    Honestly I'd like if they just removed Torment from Mesmer.

    I cant remember who posted the idea but it was along the lines of classes having main conditions.
    I also dont understand why they didnt just use bleeding. As that to me fits more with the illusions and glass theme. Torment should honestly be exclusive to Necromancer imo

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    Honestly I'd like if they just removed Torment from Mesmer.

    I cant remember who posted the idea but it was along the lines of classes having main conditions.
    I also dont understand why they didnt just use bleeding. As that to me fits more with the illusions and glass theme. Torment should honestly be exclusive to Necromancer imo

    It honestly fits Revenant too. I consider Torment a lesser version of things like Agony/Spectral Agony that are Mists-based.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    Honestly I'd like if they just removed Torment from Mesmer.

    I cant remember who posted the idea but it was along the lines of classes having main conditions.
    I also dont understand why they didnt just use bleeding. As that to me fits more with the illusions and glass theme. Torment should honestly be exclusive to Necromancer imo

    It honestly fits Revenant too. I consider Torment a lesser version of things like Agony/Spectral Agony that are Mists-based.

    I can subscribe to that +1 sir

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • @Solori.6025 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It's hard to read feedback is scattered in the 10+ threads that pop up daily.

    tbh it's easier to find things in 10 different threads than to try and read a 100 page megathread.

    I wouldn't be so sure when almost all of those 10 threads don't offer constructive feedback and are people venting.

    It also clogs up the forum and finding something interesting becomes difficult since a majority everything is non constructive feedback about why a class is OP.

    Ultimately, the knowledgable portion of the community has identified 3x problems:

    • Infinite Horizon
    • Illusionary Ambush
    • Axes of Symmetry

    Just ignore discussion that hovers outside of these 3 things.

    And this is why things never get fixed properly. The knowledgeable side of the community also thought torch was a problem. Then vigor. Then blurred frenzy. Oh and. 2s stability on shatters.
    Still hasnt fixed the issue of condi mirage having the ability to frequently condi burst someone to oblivion has it?

    Maybe this knowledgeable community isn't so knowledgeable.

    Torch was an issue though. Every class got their burns toned down in terms of burst except mesmer, so it was only fair.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2019

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    Honestly I'd like if they just removed Torment from Mesmer.

    I cant remember who posted the idea but it was along the lines of classes having main conditions.
    I also dont understand why they didnt just use bleeding. As that to me fits more with the illusions and glass theme. Torment should honestly be exclusive to Necromancer imo

    Think it was apharma.
    The idea is undoubtedly good but requires a huge nerf to condi cleanses as well.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It's hard to read feedback is scattered in the 10+ threads that pop up daily.

    tbh it's easier to find things in 10 different threads than to try and read a 100 page megathread.

    I wouldn't be so sure when almost all of those 10 threads don't offer constructive feedback and are people venting.

    It also clogs up the forum and finding something interesting becomes difficult since a majority everything is non constructive feedback about why a class is OP.

    Ultimately, the knowledgable portion of the community has identified 3x problems:

    • Infinite Horizon
    • Illusionary Ambush
    • Axes of Symmetry

    Just ignore discussion that hovers outside of these 3 things.

    And this is why things never get fixed properly. The knowledgeable side of the community also thought torch was a problem. Then vigor. Then blurred frenzy. Oh and. 2s stability on shatters.
    Still hasnt fixed the issue of condi mirage having the ability to frequently condi burst someone to oblivion has it?

    Maybe this knowledgeable community isn't so knowledgeable.

    Torch was an issue though. Every class got their burns toned down in terms of burst except mesmer, so it was only fair.

    Three stacks of burn vs an easy 15-20 stacks of torment and confusion.
    What seems like a more pressing issue to you.
    Yes other classes had their condition output nerfed. Which is what I thought last year and this new year would be the main thing people were concerned about. It's looking like we'll be waiting another year for this singular issue to be fixed.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • @apharma.3741 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It's hard to read feedback is scattered in the 10+ threads that pop up daily.

    tbh it's easier to find things in 10 different threads than to try and read a 100 page megathread.

    I wouldn't be so sure when almost all of those 10 threads don't offer constructive feedback and are people venting.

    It also clogs up the forum and finding something interesting becomes difficult since a majority everything is non constructive feedback about why a class is OP.

    Ultimately, the knowledgable portion of the community has identified 3x problems:

    • Infinite Horizon
    • Illusionary Ambush
    • Axes of Symmetry

    Just ignore discussion that hovers outside of these 3 things.

    And this is why things never get fixed properly. The knowledgeable side of the community also thought torch was a problem. Then vigor. Then blurred frenzy. Oh and. 2s stability on shatters.
    Still hasnt fixed the issue of condi mirage having the ability to frequently condi burst someone to oblivion has it?

    Maybe this knowledgeable community isn't so knowledgeable.

    Torch was an issue though. Every class got their burns toned down in terms of burst except mesmer, so it was only fair.

    Funny thing, I said when people complained about the torch and the burns that they weren't that big of an issue. I told them if it gets nerfed it won't solve any of the problems. Know what happened? They nerfed the stacks on the torch. It changed nothing because the torch was never the problem.

    Nerfing in the wrong place only leads to what happens now where you have players waving their hands in the air, creating rant videos and acting like the monkeys they like to call other people because it's been 6 months and the real issues aren't being addressed. They aren't being addressed because people on the forums don't properly articulate, define and specifically state what is their problem with the class. Instead they say "too many evades" or "too much damage".

    I've clearly stated multiple times on the forum what I think the issue with mirage is. That being said, the torch changes did tone down the burst ever so slightly.
    Judges Intervention burns or ranger torch wasn't an issue either, but they still got nerfed.

    Mirage can't be toned down with mere number changes alone. The issues run deeper than that.

    There has been a couple of in depth posts and videos of good changes to mirage during the past year, nothing is changed. And as much as I personally dislike @Trigr.6481 , he did post a pretty decent analysis on what can be changed without gutting the entire spec.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Jojo.6590Jojo.6590 Member ✭✭
    edited February 6, 2019

    Please delete, response keeps coming up yellow.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Condis like confusion and torment should not even exist in a game like this

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    sees buff teef link in signature
    HMMMM

    shoulda clicked the link

    lol

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    Bring back Impending Dhuum.
    No FotM for me, only thief, weak or strong.

  • @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    Perhaps the community is trying to tell you something Anet.
    Ignore?
    Fine....

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67509/we-nerfed-mirages-in-the-recent-patch#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67574/countless-pvp-mesmer-suggestions#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67839/anet-the-mirage-cloak-mechanic-should-be-against-your-combat-philosophy#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66881/how-do-people-decide-that-mirage-is-op-its-not-op-a-defense-of-the-cyber-bullied-class#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67829/the-problem-with-condi-mirage-is-not-any-one-thing-its-all-the-things#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57248/condi-mirage-feedback-merged#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67729/stop-mesmer-never-ending-nerfs-rework-save-mesmer#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67745/thoughts-on-power-mirage-vs-condi-mirage#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67258/any-tips-versus-mirage#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67324/condi-mirage-has-an-unfair-advantage-over-renegade#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67238/17k-power-damage-from-confusing-images#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67204/mirage#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66848/day-2-mirage-power-skill-dont-need-it#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67267/mesmer-is-still-freecasting-by-the-way#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66961/often-seeing-4-mirages-per-game#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67075/when-you-select-mesmer-on-character-creation#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67068/mirage-reveal-removal#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66687/mesmer-just-got-passively-buffed-o-o#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66417/mirage-should-be-able-to-dodge-while-downed#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65455/mesmer-utility-and-damage#latest

    Just consider all these threads clones and you'll have a slight taste of what dealing with mirage is like.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jojo.6590 said:
    "Knowledgeable Community"?! Here comes a good bit of irony. A little bit of homework for the "Knowledgeable Community" that uses objective reasoning.

    Look at each balance patch, specifically the nerfs to Mesmer (referring to Mirage too). Pay close attention to the date of each patch. Now if you go back through the forums and read each and every Mesmer QQ thread/ comment using subjective fabrications against Mesmer, you'd (hopefully) notice that each nerf to Mesmer was in response to what the "Knowledgeable Community" felt was causing Mesmer to be "OP". (Wagging finger) tsk, tsk, tsk, on Anet's end for continuing to give the mouse a cookie.

    The irony (a years worth, if not more ) is that the Mesmer mains have stated objectively what was/is causing Mesmer to over perform, while also correcting the subjective fabrications made by the "Knowledgeable Community". Yet the "Knowledgeable Community" goes crazy each and every time this happens, calling out people for being Mesmer mains, that they're biased towards their main class, and then the more toxic "QQ Mesmer main spotted, your opinion no longer matters." The irony is that the Mesmer mains were and STILL ARE correct and most of them are using objective reasoning to make suggestions on how to correctly balance Mesmer. Unlike the "Knowledgeable Community" that is still currently using subjective fabrications. Yes, its surprising that for a change the mains of a class for the most part are being extremely transparent with what needs to be done to balance Mesmer.

    Now don't let me stop you from continuing to use subjective fabrications as to why Mesmer needs to be balanced. By all means, keep complaining in this childish fashion. It won't fix anything, the "Knowledgeable Community" has been incorrect for the past year. The fact that Mesmer is still over performing is more then enough objective reasoning to support this.

    As a bonus bit of irony, for those that haven't been following this masquerade, there is a specific person currently here whom spear headed the bandwagon nerf for torch for Mesmer. This is not an exact quote but its close enough, this person stated that "Mirage would be perfectly balanced", they'd even be "fine with the way EM functions, once torch is nerfed." Yet they're still here, still using subjective fabrications to warrant nerfs for Mesmer.

    Last, for those using fairness as a false equivalence to justify their requested nerfs for Mesmer, this one is for you. Fairness does NOT equal balance. Each class functions in its own way. This lack of understanding on how a class functions and how each piece (traits, skills, etc) affects this is again why the "Knowledgeable Community" ( this is defiantly a meme now) is and has been for the most part (95% of the time) incorrect as to how to correctly balance Mesmer. To make this a bit more simple, If you need your car fixed you're going to go to a mechanic, not a veterinarian. Because the veterinarian would not understand how your car functions and what piece need fixing. Just like how the "Knowledgeable Community" still does not understand how Mesmer and in tandem Mirage functions, thus lacking an understanding of whats actually causing Mesmer to over perform.

    Savage, but well said. /tip hat

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It's hard to read feedback is scattered in the 10+ threads that pop up daily.

    tbh it's easier to find things in 10 different threads than to try and read a 100 page megathread.

    I wouldn't be so sure when almost all of those 10 threads don't offer constructive feedback and are people venting.

    It also clogs up the forum and finding something interesting becomes difficult since a majority everything is non constructive feedback about why a class is OP.

    Ultimately, the knowledgable portion of the community has identified 3x problems:

    • Infinite Horizon
    • Illusionary Ambush
    • Axes of Symmetry

    Just ignore discussion that hovers outside of these 3 things.

    And this is why things never get fixed properly. The knowledgeable side of the community also thought torch was a problem. Then vigor. Then blurred frenzy. Oh and. 2s stability on shatters.
    Still hasnt fixed the issue of condi mirage having the ability to frequently condi burst someone to oblivion has it?

    Maybe this knowledgeable community isn't so knowledgeable.

    Torch was an issue though. Every class got their burns toned down in terms of burst except mesmer, so it was only fair.

    Funny thing, I said when people complained about the torch and the burns that they weren't that big of an issue. I told them if it gets nerfed it won't solve any of the problems. Know what happened? They nerfed the stacks on the torch. It changed nothing because the torch was never the problem.

    Nerfing in the wrong place only leads to what happens now where you have players waving their hands in the air, creating rant videos and acting like the monkeys they like to call other people because it's been 6 months and the real issues aren't being addressed. They aren't being addressed because people on the forums don't properly articulate, define and specifically state what is their problem with the class. Instead they say "too many evades" or "too much damage".

    I've clearly stated multiple times on the forum what I think the issue with mirage is. That being said, the torch changes did tone down the burst ever so slightly.
    Judges Intervention burns or ranger torch wasn't an issue either, but they still got nerfed.

    Mirage can't be toned down with mere number changes alone. The issues run deeper than that.

    There has been a couple of in depth posts and videos of good changes to mirage during the past year, nothing is changed. And as much as I personally dislike @Trigr.6481 , he did post a pretty decent analysis on what can be changed without gutting the entire spec.

    There's a big difference though, core mesmer doesn't have anywhere near the burn access that core guardian or ranger has so the stacking is less of an issue as the skills main use is as a cover condi. An argument can be made mirage gets more on chaos vortex but that's very well telegraphed and you can strafe it pretty well. I said in the threads I'd be all up for removing the extra burn on the pledge so it was a simple 20% CDR as I think traits do too much.

    3 stacks on the prestige with a 3s warning which is more warning than most skills and 2 stacks from the mage, hardly setting the world on fire when you consider the burn access mesmer has but w/e it's done and mirage is still and issue despite people vehemently declaring burns were the issue.

    Edit: OK to expand and it's not aimed at you AngelLovesFredrik.

    The reason why I was a bit annoyed by the burn change is that it was hard to quantify and really establish if the burns being 3 and 2 stacks was really an issue given the counterplay that exists or not. There's other factors that affect and amplify the ability to apply the burns. For example the AI clutter of 3 clones and 2-3 phantasms even assuming 1 mesmer is around makes figuring out how many and what attacks are coming challenging. So while the skill may actually be balanced it's telegraph is being masked by the other factors of the AI limit being exceeded.

    Likewise with the prestige, I saw plenty of damage logs where it did 3-4k with burning OMFGANETNERFTHIS!!!1 but if you were watching carefully the prestige hit on their downed body, they died to the insane torment and 6k confusion first.

    This is why the biggest issues need tackling first, the sheer amount of torment coming out needs reducing if not changing to bleeds or poison, a slower ramping up condition that isn't going to shut down your ability to avoid further damage through kiting. What also needs addressing is the AI clutter, this is especially a problem on chronomancer but if there's ever 2 mesmers around it's a nightmare figuring out what's going on even for experienced players (I would remove phantasms btw). Finally and this is a multi class issue, the pace of the game needs slowing down a bit, that means increasing cool downs. One of the biggest problems about mirage is they have 3 ways to detarget in a 20s cycle and that's not including stealth. If Illusionary Ambush and Axes of Symmetry were closer to core level of cool downs they would be 25-30s and 15s respectively, significantly reducing the problems of detargetting.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Jojo's post should get fixed on top of pvp forums.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    I haven’t looked at all of them but did you also post the mirage topics that got posted in the WvW and General Forum?

    Oh Coni Mirage is 10x more busted marginally in comparison to other classes in wvw than it is in spvp.

    • Food that grants +40% passive endurance regeneration
    • Energy Sigils that still grant +50% endurance on swap
    • Adventure Rune granting full +50% endurance on heal use
    • Trailblazer stats
    • PvE sigil options

    Usually resulting in a sheer 60+ seconds of literally complete immunity to all forms of damage, due to this endless pit of endurance regen and mirage cloaks, along with clone ambush skill usage that is far too frequent even begin to consider is anywhere in the realm in the balance. You can't 1v1 this spec in wvw. Most people can't even kill it 3v1, and it isn't because they are bad, it's because the endless well of endurance & mirage cloaks and trailblazer stats, buys plenty of time to teleport around and disengage into a keep.

    This isn't entirely true and certainly not 10x let alone 10x compared to other classes. All classes can (and do) run these sigils and food giving them more dodges too.

    What is truly busted in WvW small scale are rangers.

    You know how druids were extremely obnoxious with CA on 10s CD and ancient seeds on 10s CD? They're still like that in WvW so you can never kill a tanky one and it will lock you down eventually with the pet killing you.

    Soulbeast actually got buffed, moa stance is still 25s CD and Dolyak stance is still 30s CD and saw the buffs PvP received too. It's at a point where if a soulbeast is using the above sigils, food and runes they can be in an evade frame almost as much as mesmer while enjoying -54% damage taken every 30s.

    Also trailblazer stats? LUL that's like paper with the amount of damage going around atm or have you missed the people complaining about being hit for 7k+ on minstrels guardians that have 3.4k armour.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Stance
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance

    I will agree condition mirage is stronger in WvW, I'll agree it's a strong 1v1 spec (loses value in fights of 3+) but it is by far not alone in how strong it is where soulbeasts, warriors and holosmiths actually dominate the roaming scene in T1-T2 EU with revs coming in with duos and above. Remember revs might stacking isn't nerfed, photon forge damage is significantly higher and likewise stance nerfs weren't brought to WvW.

    Warriors dominate? Lol, you might see a few of them, but they are not effective solo roamers. Thief, mesmer, holo and ranger are far superior.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It's hard to read feedback is scattered in the 10+ threads that pop up daily.

    tbh it's easier to find things in 10 different threads than to try and read a 100 page megathread.

    I wouldn't be so sure when almost all of those 10 threads don't offer constructive feedback and are people venting.

    It also clogs up the forum and finding something interesting becomes difficult since a majority everything is non constructive feedback about why a class is OP.

    Ultimately, the knowledgable portion of the community has identified 3x problems:

    • Infinite Horizon
    • Illusionary Ambush
    • Axes of Symmetry

    Just ignore discussion that hovers outside of these 3 things.

    Ehhh, not really no.

    Infinite Horizon I agree with.

    Illusionary Ambush I don't really have too many problems with outside of the target breaking, its not a necessary component to the skill considering they can already stealth while vomiting clones. Not a severe issue honestly.

    Axes of Symmetry is debatable. Yes it puts a lot of Confusion when it hits but Scourge spits out similar amounts of other conditions with its skills yet doesn't decimate everyone. A big part of that is that Scourge doesn't have as much of an ability to just shrug off CC.

    Which brings me to what one of my biggest issues with Mirage, especially Condi Mirage, is; The ability to use Mirage Cloak (aka activate dodge) even while CC'd. No this is not in reference to Elusive Mind, that is irrelevant now, I am talking about them getting CC'd and tapping the dodge button and it applies Mirage Cloak to them. This is what makes Condi Mirages such a pain to fight. You could be surviving and sustaining through everything they throw at you, and you get an opportunity to land a CC after waiting or timing around their defenses and then the Mirage just taps their dodge button and poof, Mirage Cloak applied. No stun break, they just evade even while knocked onto the ground or while stunned.

    That above is why I'd say leaving Axes of Symmetry alone for now is completely fine, because they need to take a look at making Mirages unable to apply Mirage Cloak to themselves while CC'd. That is the biggest problem, and second I'd say is Infinite Horizon, it just needs an ICD. Mirages don't like that? Tough. Silent Scope for DE needs an ICD too, so don't worry you're not alone.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    I haven’t looked at all of them but did you also post the mirage topics that got posted in the WvW and General Forum?

    Oh Coni Mirage is 10x more busted marginally in comparison to other classes in wvw than it is in spvp.

    • Food that grants +40% passive endurance regeneration
    • Energy Sigils that still grant +50% endurance on swap
    • Adventure Rune granting full +50% endurance on heal use
    • Trailblazer stats
    • PvE sigil options

    Usually resulting in a sheer 60+ seconds of literally complete immunity to all forms of damage, due to this endless pit of endurance regen and mirage cloaks, along with clone ambush skill usage that is far too frequent even begin to consider is anywhere in the realm in the balance. You can't 1v1 this spec in wvw. Most people can't even kill it 3v1, and it isn't because they are bad, it's because the endless well of endurance & mirage cloaks and trailblazer stats, buys plenty of time to teleport around and disengage into a keep.

    This isn't entirely true and certainly not 10x let alone 10x compared to other classes. All classes can (and do) run these sigils and food giving them more dodges too.

    What is truly busted in WvW small scale are rangers.

    You know how druids were extremely obnoxious with CA on 10s CD and ancient seeds on 10s CD? They're still like that in WvW so you can never kill a tanky one and it will lock you down eventually with the pet killing you.

    Soulbeast actually got buffed, moa stance is still 25s CD and Dolyak stance is still 30s CD and saw the buffs PvP received too. It's at a point where if a soulbeast is using the above sigils, food and runes they can be in an evade frame almost as much as mesmer while enjoying -54% damage taken every 30s.

    Also trailblazer stats? LUL that's like paper with the amount of damage going around atm or have you missed the people complaining about being hit for 7k+ on minstrels guardians that have 3.4k armour.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Stance
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance

    I will agree condition mirage is stronger in WvW, I'll agree it's a strong 1v1 spec (loses value in fights of 3+) but it is by far not alone in how strong it is where soulbeasts, warriors and holosmiths actually dominate the roaming scene in T1-T2 EU with revs coming in with duos and above. Remember revs might stacking isn't nerfed, photon forge damage is significantly higher and likewise stance nerfs weren't brought to WvW.

    Warriors dominate? Lol, you might see a few of them, but they are not effective solo roamers. Thief, mesmer, holo and ranger are far superior.

    say the specs not just the professions

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    Bring back Impending Dhuum.
    No FotM for me, only thief, weak or strong.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    I haven’t looked at all of them but did you also post the mirage topics that got posted in the WvW and General Forum?

    Oh Coni Mirage is 10x more busted marginally in comparison to other classes in wvw than it is in spvp.

    • Food that grants +40% passive endurance regeneration
    • Energy Sigils that still grant +50% endurance on swap
    • Adventure Rune granting full +50% endurance on heal use
    • Trailblazer stats
    • PvE sigil options

    Usually resulting in a sheer 60+ seconds of literally complete immunity to all forms of damage, due to this endless pit of endurance regen and mirage cloaks, along with clone ambush skill usage that is far too frequent even begin to consider is anywhere in the realm in the balance. You can't 1v1 this spec in wvw. Most people can't even kill it 3v1, and it isn't because they are bad, it's because the endless well of endurance & mirage cloaks and trailblazer stats, buys plenty of time to teleport around and disengage into a keep.

    This isn't entirely true and certainly not 10x let alone 10x compared to other classes. All classes can (and do) run these sigils and food giving them more dodges too.

    What is truly busted in WvW small scale are rangers.

    You know how druids were extremely obnoxious with CA on 10s CD and ancient seeds on 10s CD? They're still like that in WvW so you can never kill a tanky one and it will lock you down eventually with the pet killing you.

    Soulbeast actually got buffed, moa stance is still 25s CD and Dolyak stance is still 30s CD and saw the buffs PvP received too. It's at a point where if a soulbeast is using the above sigils, food and runes they can be in an evade frame almost as much as mesmer while enjoying -54% damage taken every 30s.

    Also trailblazer stats? LUL that's like paper with the amount of damage going around atm or have you missed the people complaining about being hit for 7k+ on minstrels guardians that have 3.4k armour.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Stance
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance

    I will agree condition mirage is stronger in WvW, I'll agree it's a strong 1v1 spec (loses value in fights of 3+) but it is by far not alone in how strong it is where soulbeasts, warriors and holosmiths actually dominate the roaming scene in T1-T2 EU with revs coming in with duos and above. Remember revs might stacking isn't nerfed, photon forge damage is significantly higher and likewise stance nerfs weren't brought to WvW.

    Warriors dominate? Lol, you might see a few of them, but they are not effective solo roamers. Thief, mesmer, holo and ranger are far superior.

    Warriors can outrun anything that isn't soulbeast, thief, shiro rev, sword mirage and rocket boots holo, even then thief, mirage and rev will be wary of using up resources to chase a warrior as 1 stunlock and they're dead. You tend to see them in small numbers duo to 5 a lot too because of the sustain with MMR, Adrenal healing, mobility and sheer amount of CC.

    As I say this is my experience in T1-T2 EU, your mileage may vary.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    I haven’t looked at all of them but did you also post the mirage topics that got posted in the WvW and General Forum?

    Oh Coni Mirage is 10x more busted marginally in comparison to other classes in wvw than it is in spvp.

    • Food that grants +40% passive endurance regeneration
    • Energy Sigils that still grant +50% endurance on swap
    • Adventure Rune granting full +50% endurance on heal use
    • Trailblazer stats
    • PvE sigil options

    Usually resulting in a sheer 60+ seconds of literally complete immunity to all forms of damage, due to this endless pit of endurance regen and mirage cloaks, along with clone ambush skill usage that is far too frequent even begin to consider is anywhere in the realm in the balance. You can't 1v1 this spec in wvw. Most people can't even kill it 3v1, and it isn't because they are bad, it's because the endless well of endurance & mirage cloaks and trailblazer stats, buys plenty of time to teleport around and disengage into a keep.

    This isn't entirely true and certainly not 10x let alone 10x compared to other classes. All classes can (and do) run these sigils and food giving them more dodges too.

    What is truly busted in WvW small scale are rangers.

    You know how druids were extremely obnoxious with CA on 10s CD and ancient seeds on 10s CD? They're still like that in WvW so you can never kill a tanky one and it will lock you down eventually with the pet killing you.

    Soulbeast actually got buffed, moa stance is still 25s CD and Dolyak stance is still 30s CD and saw the buffs PvP received too. It's at a point where if a soulbeast is using the above sigils, food and runes they can be in an evade frame almost as much as mesmer while enjoying -54% damage taken every 30s.

    Also trailblazer stats? LUL that's like paper with the amount of damage going around atm or have you missed the people complaining about being hit for 7k+ on minstrels guardians that have 3.4k armour.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Stance
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance

    I will agree condition mirage is stronger in WvW, I'll agree it's a strong 1v1 spec (loses value in fights of 3+) but it is by far not alone in how strong it is where soulbeasts, warriors and holosmiths actually dominate the roaming scene in T1-T2 EU with revs coming in with duos and above. Remember revs might stacking isn't nerfed, photon forge damage is significantly higher and likewise stance nerfs weren't brought to WvW.

    Warriors dominate? Lol, you might see a few of them, but they are not effective solo roamers. Thief, mesmer, holo and ranger are far superior.

    Warriors can outrun anything that isn't soulbeast, thief, shiro rev, sword mirage and rocket boots holo, even then thief, mirage and rev will be wary of using up resources to chase a warrior as 1 stunlock and they're dead. You tend to see them in small numbers duo to 5 a lot too because of the sustain with MMR, Adrenal healing, mobility and sheer amount of CC.

    As I say this is my experience in T1-T2 EU, your mileage may vary.

    Ok.
    „One stunlock = dead“
    And how can a warrior archive this stunlock without help from someone else?

    Sure a Warrior could do that to a zergling but that doesn’t really count because zergling builds are not made for small scall fights.

    You should only compare roaming build against roaming build.

    Tell me.
    On equal skill level, who would win:
    Mirage Vs Warrior
    Soulbeast Vs Warrior
    Deadeye Vs Warrior
    Holo Vs Warrior

    Also: How on earth can a Spellbreaker do this much dmg without discipline and berserker power?

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    I haven’t looked at all of them but did you also post the mirage topics that got posted in the WvW and General Forum?

    Oh Coni Mirage is 10x more busted marginally in comparison to other classes in wvw than it is in spvp.

    • Food that grants +40% passive endurance regeneration
    • Energy Sigils that still grant +50% endurance on swap
    • Adventure Rune granting full +50% endurance on heal use
    • Trailblazer stats
    • PvE sigil options

    Usually resulting in a sheer 60+ seconds of literally complete immunity to all forms of damage, due to this endless pit of endurance regen and mirage cloaks, along with clone ambush skill usage that is far too frequent even begin to consider is anywhere in the realm in the balance. You can't 1v1 this spec in wvw. Most people can't even kill it 3v1, and it isn't because they are bad, it's because the endless well of endurance & mirage cloaks and trailblazer stats, buys plenty of time to teleport around and disengage into a keep.

    This isn't entirely true and certainly not 10x let alone 10x compared to other classes. All classes can (and do) run these sigils and food giving them more dodges too.

    What is truly busted in WvW small scale are rangers.

    You know how druids were extremely obnoxious with CA on 10s CD and ancient seeds on 10s CD? They're still like that in WvW so you can never kill a tanky one and it will lock you down eventually with the pet killing you.

    Soulbeast actually got buffed, moa stance is still 25s CD and Dolyak stance is still 30s CD and saw the buffs PvP received too. It's at a point where if a soulbeast is using the above sigils, food and runes they can be in an evade frame almost as much as mesmer while enjoying -54% damage taken every 30s.

    Also trailblazer stats? LUL that's like paper with the amount of damage going around atm or have you missed the people complaining about being hit for 7k+ on minstrels guardians that have 3.4k armour.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Stance
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance

    I will agree condition mirage is stronger in WvW, I'll agree it's a strong 1v1 spec (loses value in fights of 3+) but it is by far not alone in how strong it is where soulbeasts, warriors and holosmiths actually dominate the roaming scene in T1-T2 EU with revs coming in with duos and above. Remember revs might stacking isn't nerfed, photon forge damage is significantly higher and likewise stance nerfs weren't brought to WvW.

    Warriors dominate? Lol, you might see a few of them, but they are not effective solo roamers. Thief, mesmer, holo and ranger are far superior.

    Warriors can outrun anything that isn't soulbeast, thief, shiro rev, sword mirage and rocket boots holo, even then thief, mirage and rev will be wary of using up resources to chase a warrior as 1 stunlock and they're dead. You tend to see them in small numbers duo to 5 a lot too because of the sustain with MMR, Adrenal healing, mobility and sheer amount of CC.

    As I say this is my experience in T1-T2 EU, your mileage may vary.

    Ok.
    „One stunlock = dead“
    And how can a warrior archive this stunlock without help from someone else?

    Sure a Warrior could do that to a zergling but that doesn’t really count because zergling builds are not made for small scall fights.

    You should only compare roaming build against roaming build.

    Tell me.
    On equal skill level, who would win:
    Mirage Vs Warrior
    Soulbeast Vs Warrior
    Deadeye Vs Warrior
    Holo Vs Warrior

    Also: How on earth can a Spellbreaker do this much dmg without discipline and berserker power?

    You might want to check the context, I was saying those builds aren't going to chase a warrior because 1 stunlock = dead, many do not have passive save my bacon traits within their builds.

    Thief uses initiative and would have to use shadowstep usually it's only stunbreak to catch the warrior.
    Mirage will have to use blink and most of if not all it's endurance to chase the warrior leaving it low on defences.
    Rev would need to chase in shiro and use all it's energy, would have to legend swap on engage leaving 1 stunbreak only.

    Like it or not chasing a warrior for many classes is a lot more risky than it's worth because of the amount of resources needed to keep up. It's not risky for a soulbeast because they can pew pew it to death from far out of it's range while keeping up via double swoop (12s and 10s CD) and holo only can keep up with rocket boots. For holo they usually just don't bother but in the event they have rocket boots it's 1 cool down.

    It's about resources needed to chase vs resources you'd have in combat, the warrior is less restricted in it's use of mobility skills while generally having a low cool down on the ones it uses like whirlwind.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    I haven’t looked at all of them but did you also post the mirage topics that got posted in the WvW and General Forum?

    Oh Coni Mirage is 10x more busted marginally in comparison to other classes in wvw than it is in spvp.

    • Food that grants +40% passive endurance regeneration
    • Energy Sigils that still grant +50% endurance on swap
    • Adventure Rune granting full +50% endurance on heal use
    • Trailblazer stats
    • PvE sigil options

    Usually resulting in a sheer 60+ seconds of literally complete immunity to all forms of damage, due to this endless pit of endurance regen and mirage cloaks, along with clone ambush skill usage that is far too frequent even begin to consider is anywhere in the realm in the balance. You can't 1v1 this spec in wvw. Most people can't even kill it 3v1, and it isn't because they are bad, it's because the endless well of endurance & mirage cloaks and trailblazer stats, buys plenty of time to teleport around and disengage into a keep.

    This isn't entirely true and certainly not 10x let alone 10x compared to other classes. All classes can (and do) run these sigils and food giving them more dodges too.

    What is truly busted in WvW small scale are rangers.

    You know how druids were extremely obnoxious with CA on 10s CD and ancient seeds on 10s CD? They're still like that in WvW so you can never kill a tanky one and it will lock you down eventually with the pet killing you.

    Soulbeast actually got buffed, moa stance is still 25s CD and Dolyak stance is still 30s CD and saw the buffs PvP received too. It's at a point where if a soulbeast is using the above sigils, food and runes they can be in an evade frame almost as much as mesmer while enjoying -54% damage taken every 30s.

    Also trailblazer stats? LUL that's like paper with the amount of damage going around atm or have you missed the people complaining about being hit for 7k+ on minstrels guardians that have 3.4k armour.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Stance
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance

    I will agree condition mirage is stronger in WvW, I'll agree it's a strong 1v1 spec (loses value in fights of 3+) but it is by far not alone in how strong it is where soulbeasts, warriors and holosmiths actually dominate the roaming scene in T1-T2 EU with revs coming in with duos and above. Remember revs might stacking isn't nerfed, photon forge damage is significantly higher and likewise stance nerfs weren't brought to WvW.

    Warriors dominate? Lol, you might see a few of them, but they are not effective solo roamers. Thief, mesmer, holo and ranger are far superior.

    Warriors can outrun anything that isn't soulbeast, thief, shiro rev, sword mirage and rocket boots holo, even then thief, mirage and rev will be wary of using up resources to chase a warrior as 1 stunlock and they're dead. You tend to see them in small numbers duo to 5 a lot too because of the sustain with MMR, Adrenal healing, mobility and sheer amount of CC.

    As I say this is my experience in T1-T2 EU, your mileage may vary.

    Ok.
    „One stunlock = dead“
    And how can a warrior archive this stunlock without help from someone else?

    Sure a Warrior could do that to a zergling but that doesn’t really count because zergling builds are not made for small scall fights.

    You should only compare roaming build against roaming build.

    Tell me.
    On equal skill level, who would win:
    Mirage Vs Warrior
    Soulbeast Vs Warrior
    Deadeye Vs Warrior
    Holo Vs Warrior

    Also: How on earth can a Spellbreaker do this much dmg without discipline and berserker power?

    I'll let apharma answer that but I like a lot where this is going and since you're one who wants the hardest mirage nerfed
    Tell me.
    On equal skill level, who would win:
    Boonbeast vs Mirage
    Conv Holo vs Mirage
    S/D Thief vs Mirage
    S/D Weaver vs Mirage
    Firebrand vs Mirage

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