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Theft within a guild


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Hello everybody, Just yesterday my guild bank was raided by an officer right before he ditched the guild and blocked everybody in game and on discord. Keep in mind that this was not just a normal member or even a new officer...he has been an officer for at least 6 months or so and waited until we had a good amount gold and valuable items before taking action. We reached directly out to Anet for answers, and they were kind enough to hit us with the good old "We don't get involved with guild politics" speech. Though it is not what we wanted to hear, we have an amazing player base that helped us get back on track in less than 6 hours. That is nice and all, but the thought is still on my mind...what about the person who did the crime? Will he do it to another guild? Why does Anet not take action against players who can pull of a slick crime like this?

What do you all think about this kind of situation and the GMs pretty much saying "You're on your own"?Do you feel like Anet should step up and take actions against these thieves if presented with a clear case and plenty of evidence to go with it?

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You shared your stuff with him, as far as ANet is and should be concerned you effectively gave him all the stuff when he was elevated to a point where he had access to it. Him and anyone else who did. It's entirely etiquette that stops someone from doing that regularly. It's not ANet's responsibility to choose who can take the things you've given them access to.

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This is true, but do you not find the system flawed? You cannot run a guild that takes up multiple guild slots on your own. you have to get help from others, essentially making it a guild to begin with. They give you the option of giving certain permission to certain ranks but they do not let you regulate how much is removed by said rank. Being in a trusted officer position for 6 months before turning on the guild and taking everything we have says more about the person than it does the guild management. and I feel that Anet should be able to look into cases as such.

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I think the policy is good. We would not want nor need ArenaNet to be involved in all the drama that can occur in Guilds. If someone has access to the Guild Bank, then the Guild has effectively stated that those goods/items/Gold are up for grabs. One can always change the way the Guild Storage is set up; maybe set it up that only the Guild Leader has access to the Treasure Trove and/or Deep Cave.

Good luck.

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Easier to do on smaller guilds, but guilds that hit cap with constant active members need at least a few hands to keep an eye on things like this, otherwise it fills up and gets out of hand...especially guilds like ours that take up multiple guild slots and items need to be transferred from bank to bank. As of this incident we are on full lockdown lol

They need a system where you can regulate how many items or how much gold can be removed at one time.

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srs guilds mean that you already know each other by the time spent among yourselves. and by that, you already know some of his personal info, like his face, his voice, (skyping and comms and fb account or instaG) and his email addresses. and most likely his real name and home address. and from those and his/her interactions with your guild, you can weigh in if you can give guild bank privileges to her/him.

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@"Girbilcannon.8259" said:This is true, but do you not find the system flawed? You cannot run a guild that takes up multiple guild slots on your own.It's your decision to run multiple guilds. If you can't handle it, or don't have people you trust to do it with you, you probably shpuldn't try to in the first place. If you give too much privileges to people you are not 100% sure of, you're running a risk, but it's still your decision to do so.

Understand, that Anet cannot really get involved in such cases. There's way too much variables involved - starting with who the stuff in the guild bank really belongs to.Hint: depending on situation, an officer getting away with loot from the guild bank can sometimes be less bad than the guild leader kicking someone from the guild after that person did some investments for the guild. And if the guild is split in game into multiple guilds, possibly even with different founders, it all gets messy really fast. If anet were to be involved in all those cases, they would be doing nothing else, and would drown under tons of "explanations" from everyone involved, as well as their friends, guildmembers, neighbours, family and house pets. Everyone swearing that their version of the event is the right one.

Yes, probably guild interface and permissions could use a bit of a rework. Still, with what you have now, if you decide to take a risk it's 100% on you. Devs will not get involved. Which is a good thing, considering the million of ways such intervention could easily go south.

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IIRC, there is a 500 gold weekly cap that can be moved. Items are a free for all.

I can give you the same recommendation as others but...I have 2 guildies I trust and we have been together since release. Any new members are locked out of the bank but they they are specifically told they are welcome to anything in it, just ask or send a mail.

I've had the same thing happen as you did and this was our answer to it. But as you stated, you're a large guild and ours is smaller and more manageable.

Hope you have better luck in the future...

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@Girbilcannon.8259 said:Easier to do on smaller guilds, but guilds that hit cap with constant active members need at least a few hands to keep an eye on things like this, otherwise it fills up and gets out of hand...especially guilds like ours that take up multiple guild slots and items need to be transferred from bank to bank. As of this incident we are on full lockdown lol

They need a system where you can regulate how many items or how much gold can be removed at one time.

Why do your guild take up multiple slots all the guilds I have been in have been 1 slot each.

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Think of him like a teacher, he taught you to think twice before making a stranger offficer and if you do, know that it has its own risks and law (Anet) can't help you if bad things happen.
I know this sounds bad but there are no ways to avoid this kind of situations atm.

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@Girbilcannon.8259 said:This is true, but do you not find the system flawed? You cannot run a guild that takes up multiple guild slots on your own. you have to get help from others, essentially making it a guild to begin with. They give you the option of giving certain permission to certain ranks but they do not let you regulate how much is removed by said rank. Being in a trusted officer position for 6 months before turning on the guild and taking everything we have says more about the person than it does the guild management. and I feel that Anet should be able to look into cases as such.That's exactly why it's a people problem and not a system problem. It sucks when someone betrays your trust but it can always happen. That's the risk of dealing with people and sometimes it goes wrong. So you move on after you've given yourself some time to deal with the hurt and anger. It's a loss, rebuild or stop running a guild. That's all you can do really.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@"Girbilcannon.8259" said:Easier to do on smaller guilds, but guilds that hit cap with constant active members need at least a few hands to keep an eye on things like this, otherwise it fills up and gets out of hand...especially guilds like ours that take up multiple guild slots and items need to be transferred from bank to bank. As of this incident we are on full lockdown lol

They need a system where you can regulate how many items or how much gold can be removed at one time.

Why do your guild take up multiple slots all the guilds I have been in have been 1 slot each.

There are two definitions of "guild" in play here:

  • A (large) group of real-world humans
  • An in-game structure.

The "guild slots" in question are the in-game structure, and the OP is a member of more than one of them. Why so many? Well, because that group of real-world humans is so large they don't all fit in one "guild slot", and the OP is involved in managing the "group of humans" guild by managing (being leader/officer in) the "in-game structure" guilds. Other terminology I've seen is things like "sister guilds" or "allied guilds", although in SWTOR, "sister guilds" often refers to a pair of guilds, one on the Empire side and one on the Republic side, with approximately the same humans in both.

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Policy is just that. Any company will tell you. Exceptions to the policy only muddy the water further.

You can’t give one guild help, and ignore another.

Policies are in place to protect the company and therefore the game as a whole.

The person who took items is an opportunist. And a thief.

Limit the access is your options and it’s a cautionary tale to others.

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@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:I think the policy is good. We would not want nor need ArenaNet to be involved in all the drama that can occur in Guilds. If someone has access to the Guild Bank, then the Guild has effectively stated that those goods/items/Gold are up for grabs. One can always change the way the Guild Storage is set up; maybe set it up that only the Guild Leader has access to the Treasure Trove and/or Deep Cave.

Good luck.

That's true, but it isn't the only way of arranging things. SWTOR has other issues with its guild system, but it mitigates this particular problem by having per-rank limits on how much stuff people can remove from the bank (measured in items per week or credits (gold) per week. That said, even with those limits, there are still problems with people going "off the rails" and emptying the bank after a significant period of being trusted officers.(1)

(1) The "best" such episode that I ever saw was an eBay seller rather than an MMORPG guild member. The guy sold an assortment of stuff, and had a very positive reputation with thousands of satisfied customers over a period of several years, then one day he just did a bunk with money from a bunch of buyers, including my late wife. The guy eventually got three and half years in Club Fed, but the look on my wife's face when I told her, "Hey, you have a letter from the FBI!"(2) was priceless.

(2) Of the "You may have been the victim of a federal crime" variety, duh.

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@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:I think anet should fix it for you, it's not like they can't look at all the evidence. Everyone is just citing policy as to why anet shouldnt do anything, but the reality is those policies were only put in place so anet can be lazy on the issue and not have to lift a finger. (Ie. Not really any good reason at all)

It also keeps ANet from stepping into a he said, she said situation between two of its customers.

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This does suck but I'm sure, from Anet's perspective, they really don't want to end up having to act as a divorce court when there's a falling out in a guild and one side claims things were stolen and the other insists they just took their fair share of contributed resources and left. Once they've set the precedent that they're willing to investigate and rule on such things, there's a high chance that they'll have opened some very time-consuming floodgates.

@Girbilcannon.8259 said:They need a system where you can regulate how many items or how much gold can be removed at one time.

I imagine they'll be much more open to good suggestions of ways to improve the guild management system to lessen the risk of this happening, instead of intervening on an individual case.

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I certainly sympathise. It makes you reluctant to trust people. Plus there's the issue that because gems are purchasable by cash and can be exchanged for goods/gold, the virtual property within the game has real-life value and therefor imo you were genuinely a victim of a crime. I have no solution to offer, but I think increasingly as gamers invest real time/money/value in their games, these are issues that need to be addressed.

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The ex-guildie thief can easily make an alibi, saying "I emailed them and permitted me to take all the items in the bank."

and you say otherwise.

The chat log can only say that much.

the thing that can be acted upon by a.net though if someone hi-jacks your account (a non-guildie) sells your items and the items in the guild bank. that's a whole different issue since it was an intrusion from totally anonymous person.

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@"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:(1) The "best" such episode that I ever saw was an eBay seller rather than an MMORPG guild member. The guy sold an assortment of stuff, and had a very positive reputation with thousands of satisfied customers over a period of several years, then one day he just did a bunk with money from a bunch of buyers, including my late wife. The guy eventually got three and half years in Club Fed, but the look on my wife's face when I told her, "Hey, you have a letter from the FBI!"(2) was priceless.

Would that have been "Liquidation Universe" as the seller?

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One thing that I would like to add to this. I am not an officer in a Guild in this game but I have been in other games. One thing that we made a habit of is asking new members for references. We ask them for the names of other Guilds that they had been in and we talked to the Leader/Officers of those Guilds to get their opinion of the person. You asked them when the person in question left their Guild and why. It helped that in one game in particular a lot of the Officers in the main Guilds knew each other.

As for this particular incident I think, and this is just my opinion, if any Guilds get any new members in the recent future I would ask the OP if it is the same person. It may keep the same from happening to another Guild. Another option would be to ask him now and write down the name for future reference. I understand the reasons that it cannot be posted here but I don't think that there is any reason that the name cannot be shared privately.

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@"alcopaul.2156" said:The ex-guildie thief can easily make an alibi, saying "I emailed them and permitted me to take all the items in the bank."

and you say otherwise.

The chat log can only say that much.

the thing that can be acted upon by a.net though if someone hi-jacks your account (a non-guildie) sells your items and the items in the guild bank. that's a whole different issue since it was an intrusion from totally anonymous person.

Unless things have changed dramatically, you would still be out of luck in that situation as well. Anet could restore your account if someone hacked it and deleted/sold your items but guilds could not be restored so anything taken from a guild bank was gone forever. This may have changed, but if it has I have not heard of it yet.

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@ShiningSquirrel.3751 said:

@"alcopaul.2156" said:The ex-guildie thief can easily make an alibi, saying "I emailed them and permitted me to take all the items in the bank."

and you say otherwise.

The chat log can only say that much.

the thing that can be acted upon by a.net though if someone hi-jacks your account (a non-guildie) sells your items and the items in the guild bank. that's a whole different issue since it was an intrusion from totally anonymous person.

Unless things have changed dramatically, you would still be out of luck in that situation as well. Anet could restore your account if someone hacked it and deleted/sold your items but guilds could not be restored so anything taken from a guild bank was gone forever. This may have changed, but if it has I have not heard of it yet.

well i remember way way back when i was in a wvw guild that the account of a guildie got compromised and took some things in the bank. her husband explained to the guild leader the situation. idk if she contacted a.net CS (most likely yeah) and i noticed that there has been no fusses between our guildie and the guild leader (so i assumed that the things the account hijacker took from the bank was restored)

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