Knowing the meta

Anyone can help us new player understand the « meta ».Whats good and bad, whats needed.I personally like playing dps/support.

My friend are warrior,guardian and thief.So i was thinking going chronomancer or soulbeast for boon/dps.

Are those good choices? Whats is needed in a group? What to avoid? Thanks!

Meta raid builds:https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

I knew one of you would come here.Snowcrow or metabuild.I know what your are trying to show me but its not really the info im looking for ( thanks anyways )

I’m not gonna reroll based on boss and it dosent take comp into consideration. That is based on number alone which is little stupid.I see weaver and renegade top, lets go 3xweaver 2x renegade!

Can we have a DISCUSSION about the meta and classes in raid/ fractal? Thanks

@Tataienstein.7581 said:Anyone can help us new player understand the « meta ».Whats good and bad, whats needed.I personally like playing dps/support.

My friend are warrior,guardian and thief.So i was thinking going chronomancer or soulbeast for boon/dps.

Are those good choices? Whats is needed in a group? What to avoid? Thanks!

Chronomancers sacrifice some DPS when playing support, but can do both roles well. In general PvE, I use mine for DPS and then swap a few skills and traits around for support - I use the same gear for both (berserker/diviner). There will always be a place for them in the raid and upper fractal meta as they provide quickness and alacrity and can increase the length of every boon on everyone in the squad. People tend to either love or hate them.

Soulbeast is a popular DPS build, with boon support as a secondary feature. They're very powerful in PvP.

@"Tataienstein.7581" said:I knew one of you would come here.Snowcrow or metabuild.I know what your are trying to show me but its not really the info im looking for ( thanks anyways )

I’m not gonna reroll based on boss and it dosent take comp into consideration. That is based on number alone which is little stupid.I see weaver and renegade top, lets go 3xweaver 2x renegade!

Can we have a DISCUSSION about the meta and classes in raid/ fractal? Thanks

As you say, reading the damage benchmark list is useless information.However, you can click on the buttons with the boss names and see the optimal composition for each boss.Then you can go to each profession's build and guide to find alternatives to the optimal ones. It takes a bit of searching, but the information is there, don't just look on the benchmarks.

For example, this is the info for Vale Guardian:

Power Dragonhunter provides extremely high burst DPS and allows your group to split three ways during each split phase.Two Power Dragonhunters should go to the Blue Guardian with the Support Chronomancer. The other two Power Dragonhunters, and the Heal Druid should go to the Green Guardian.Vulnerability is provided by the Condition Holosmiths and Power Dragonhunters which allows your Healing Druid to take an extra spirit.The Condition Holosmiths are brought to help speed up the Red Guardian during the split phase due to the needed condition damage.

And you find useful variations next to it:

Power based DPS classes are strong at Vale Guardian due to the low Toughness.Classes like Power Soulbeast, Power Daredevil and Power Deadeye are still extremely strong at Vale Guardian and can be used to replace the Power Dragonhunters.Replacing the Power Dragonhunters will mean that you will not be able to split three ways during the split phase.

Edit: That's for Raids of course

The "solid" picks are Chronomancer, Druid and Banner Warrior, unless your Warrior friend can play that, then Chronomancer or Druid are your best options to help your friends.

meta is combination of clases wiht some traits/profs.Bet forget about snowcown site, it was never standart, and smell for me some cheating, and and nowadays in fractal this is worst solution at all.metabattle ? sometimes yes, sometime no. The value is complete, but not make big numbers on training golem.

Currently we can say that meta like we have understand it is die after last fractal update. And born again, wiht setup: 2 heal, sup or hybryd, + 2 dps.

soulbeast is good as dps + spirit owner, why not ?thief - not best choose nowadays.

For example meta can be something like:one soulbeast wiht spiritsheal firebrand,heal renegate2 dps scourges

if we not have soulbeat, and have chrno:heal druidheal renegadechrno2 dps scourges

I know for fact my friends won’t switch classes that’s why i want to learn the meta and adapt

@lare.5129 said:meta is combination of clases wiht some traits/profs.Bet forget about snowcown site, it was never standart, and smell for me some cheating, and and nowadays in fractal this is worst solution at all.metabattle ? sometimes yes, sometime no. The value is complete, but not make big numbers on training golem.

Currently we can say that meta like we have understand it is die after last fractal update. And born again, wiht setup: 2 heal, sup or hybryd, + 2 dps.

soulbeast is good as dps + spirit owner, why not ?thief - not best choose nowadays.

For example meta can be something like:one soulbeast wiht spiritsheal firebrand,heal renegate2 dps scourges

if we not have soulbeat, and have chrno:heal druidheal renegadechrno2 dps scourges

Sorry, but i dont get what you are trying to tell us.

and smell for me some cheating,

what?

Chrono, soulbeast/druid and renegade would be the best choices.

Chrono has great burst for content like dungeons and has great mobility/stealth options there combined with thief, making it easy to skip some parts. It also has strong hybrid/support builds in case everyone else wants to play dps.

Soulbeast has strong burst as well and can bring frost spirit for extra damage. In case you're lacking heals and everyone else plays dps, druid would also be a great pick.

Renegade has quite strong hybrid/support builds which both work great with hybrid/support firebrand (but full support build is great on its own as well due to strong heals and alacrity uptime).

Meta consists of builds that can provide as many offensive boons (might, fury, quickness, alacrity) and offensive buffs (banners, empower allies, assassin's presence, spirits etc) as possible. Boons like protection, regen, swiftness, vigor can also help a lot. Your friends can currently provide like half of these (assuming guard plays more supportive build for at least quickness, but it can also give might and some defensive boons) so if you want to be more effective with your dps you'll need some of the classes I mentioned. In general, druid+chrono or firebrand+renegade (+warrior in both situations) can provide all necessary boons and effects for the biggest damage potential.

@steki.1478 said:Chrono, soulbeast/druid and renegade would be the best choices.

Chrono has great burst for content like dungeons and has great mobility/stealth options there combined with thief, making it easy to skip some parts. It also has strong hybrid/support builds in case everyone else wants to play dps.

Soulbeast has strong burst as well and can bring frost spirit for extra damage. In case you're lacking heals and everyone else plays dps, druid would also be a great pick.

Renegade has quite strong hybrid/support builds which both work great with hybrid/support firebrand (but full support build is great on its own as well due to strong heals and alacrity uptime).

Meta consists of builds that can provide as many offensive boons (might, fury, quickness, alacrity) and offensive buffs (banners, empower allies, assassin's presence, spirits etc) as possible. Boons like protection, regen, swiftness, vigor can also help a lot. Your friends can currently provide like half of these (assuming guard plays more supportive build for at least quickness, but it can also give might and some defensive boons) so if you want to be more effective with your dps you'll need some of the classes I mentioned. In general, druid+chrono or firebrand+renegade (+warrior in both situations) can provide all necessary boons and effects for the biggest damage potential.

@steki.1478 said:Chrono, soulbeast/druid and renegade would be the best choices.

Chrono has great burst for content like dungeons and has great mobility/stealth options there combined with thief, making it easy to skip some parts. It also has strong hybrid/support builds in case everyone else wants to play dps.

Soulbeast has strong burst as well and can bring frost spirit for extra damage. In case you're lacking heals and everyone else plays dps, druid would also be a great pick.

Renegade has quite strong hybrid/support builds which both work great with hybrid/support firebrand (but full support build is great on its own as well due to strong heals and alacrity uptime).

Meta consists of builds that can provide as many offensive boons (might, fury, quickness, alacrity) and offensive buffs (banners, empower allies, assassin's presence, spirits etc) as possible. Boons like protection, regen, swiftness, vigor can also help a lot. Your friends can currently provide like half of these (assuming guard plays more supportive build for at least quickness, but it can also give might and some defensive boons) so if you want to be more effective with your dps you'll need some of the classes I mentioned. In general, druid+chrono or firebrand+renegade (+warrior in both situations) can provide all necessary boons and effects for the biggest damage potential.

@steki.1478 said:Chrono, soulbeast/druid and renegade would be the best choices.

Chrono has great burst for content like dungeons and has great mobility/stealth options there combined with thief, making it easy to skip some parts. It also has strong hybrid/support builds in case everyone else wants to play dps.

Soulbeast has strong burst as well and can bring frost spirit for extra damage. In case you're lacking heals and everyone else plays dps, druid would also be a great pick.

Renegade has quite strong hybrid/support builds which both work great with hybrid/support firebrand (but full support build is great on its own as well due to strong heals and alacrity uptime).

Meta consists of builds that can provide as many offensive boons (might, fury, quickness, alacrity) and offensive buffs (banners, empower allies, assassin's presence, spirits etc) as possible. Boons like protection, regen, swiftness, vigor can also help a lot. Your friends can currently provide like half of these (assuming guard plays more supportive build for at least quickness, but it can also give might and some defensive boons) so if you want to be more effective with your dps you'll need some of the classes I mentioned. In general, druid+chrono or firebrand+renegade (+warrior in both situations) can provide all necessary boons and effects for the biggest damage potential.

Thanks thats exactly what i was looking for!

@"Tataienstein.7581" said:My friend are warrior,guardian and thief.So i was thinking going chronomancer or soulbeast for boon/dps.

I'm going to make a few assumptions and then based on those recommend different course of actions.

1.) I'll assume your friends are willing to play within their class and elite specializations2.) you will want to have something which is able to do as much instanced content as possible (dungeons, fractals and raids)

3. You are referring to 3 friends, one of which plays a warrior, one a guardian and one a thief

First off, Warrior, Thief and Guardian have solid power builds. The condition builds for warrior are great, for guardian and thief okay (this is relevant for raids).

Only guardian can run a healing build for fractals from those 3 classes, so unless your guardian friend is willing to gear a heal Firebrand, you will either have to play one yourself or get a random for fractals. Heal Firebrand and chrono are solid, or quickness Firebrand and heal revenant.

Dungeons and fractals are ideally run with power builds.

Raids require power and condition damage. If your guardian friend is unwillig to create a support build, your friends are filling up 3 dps spots. If they are unwilling to switch classes, they will have to have power and condition builds for their class. Chrono would once again be a great supplement.

@lare.5129 said:meta is combination of clases wiht some traits/profs.Bet forget about snowcown site, it was never standart, and smell for me some cheating, and and nowadays in fractal this is worst solution at all.metabattle ? sometimes yes, sometime no. The value is complete, but not make big numbers on training golem.

Currently we can say that meta like we have understand it is die after last fractal update. And born again, wiht setup: 2 heal, sup or hybryd, + 2 dps.

soulbeast is good as dps + spirit owner, why not ?thief - not best choose nowadays.

For example meta can be something like:one soulbeast wiht spiritsheal firebrand,heal renegate2 dps scourges

if we not have soulbeat, and have chrno:heal druidheal renegadechrno2 dps scourges

Can't say if you are serious or trolling. That comp is just way too bad.

On topic:You can't play meta if you don't want to switch between bosses. Some raidbosses need condi, others need power damage.SnowCrows does take comp into consideration.

You can break it down into the following: You want all the offensive boons and as much defensive support as needed to survive without losing too much dps.In raids you achieve this mostly with chronos for alacrity + quickness and a druid for might and spirits. Warrior for banners.You could also replace a chrono with a FB + Ren combo. Renegade has 10target alacrity and both can go either dps or heal while providing these boons.In fractals you only want power damage because burst is king. Heal is also not always needed but most casual groups take one.You still want most of the boons though. Meta is FB + Ren + Warr + Weaver + SLB or Chrono + Soulbeast + Warr + 2 dps. You can always let the FB/Ren/SLB switch to their healing builds if needed but it slows down everything a lot.Chrono + Heal FB + Warr + 2 DH is probably the easiest one but way lower damage than the meta options.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"Tataienstein.7581" said:My friend are warrior,guardian and thief.So i was thinking going chronomancer or soulbeast for boon/dps.

3. You are referring to 3 friends, one of which plays a warrior, one a guardian and one a thief

yes the warrior is power BS, guardian is currently firebrand supportish and the thief i don,t know which direction she gonna go (probably the easiest build so deadeye power ?)Also im asking for general knowledge but if we are talking about my specific case, i don't think we gonna run raids alot (if at all)

@Tataienstein.7581 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Tataienstein.7581 said:My friend are warrior,guardian and thief.So i was thinking going chronomancer or soulbeast for boon/dps.

3. You are referring to 3 friends, one of which plays a warrior, one a guardian and one a thief

Well all power Thief builds are very similar gear wise, so your friend can go Deadeye and Daredevil with the same gear (berserker or Marauder).

If you are set on not doing raids, things become very easy:

• Firebrand support can carry through any content, even without an alacrity providing class
• both chrono or Renegade will provide alacrity to this group
• any additional dps will be useful to this group, Soulbeast would be my top pick
• you'll want to go with a power setup for dungeons and fractals

So your class of choice would be either chrono (probably my recommendation for portals and other utility), renegade (alacrity or support Renegade for when the Firebrand wants to go dps) or Soulbeast (for ranger buffs and good additional dps or as druid heal for when the Firebrand wants to go dps). As long as your guardian (Firebrand) friend is willing to play support, you can do w/e.

Meta in this game is rarely comparable to meta in a lot of other games.

Say, in SWL, you have Assault Rifle meta and it has been there for a long while. It will ALWAYS perform better than any other DPS at the same item level and comparable skills.

This is usually not the case for GW2 - this is why people optimise for encounter rather than go for one meta to rule them all. AND this is why you get pretty uninformed comments like "thief is not good nowadays."

There is a list of good suggestions here and I honestly won't be adding much to it aside from saying you have a good core group with the essentials, to be honest. I would definitely spend some time reading the snowcrow guides though - not to learn about the raids but to learn about your profession, learn their rationale as to why they suggest a certain composition, to get a general idea as to what profession capabilities are and how they mix and match.

I mean, it is the reality that, based on the group, you can go into any fractal and lawnmow through it with 5 Dragonhunters or, say, Daredevils, for instance, if you know what you are doing. Meta in this game usually means "will kill in 30 seconds instead of 75."

@Tataienstein.7581 said:I knew one of you would come here.Snowcrow or metabuild.I know what your are trying to show me but its not really the info im looking for ( thanks anyways )

I’m not gonna reroll based on boss and it dosent take comp into consideration. That is based on number alone which is little stupid.I see weaver and renegade top, lets go 3xweaver 2x renegade!

Can we have a DISCUSSION about the meta and classes in raid/ fractal? Thanks

Benchmarks are not the thing that you should look from SC. Anyways, you know the site so you can get ur answers from there.

Thanks alot everyone! Thats educate me alot on « meta » and personal comp.Now i know that alarcity and swiftness and thing like that are really important.

I’ll be testing all of those out! I alredy have the upper hand on my friend since I’ve been playing. I want a GS class (i can’t get rid of twilight) so chrono or soulbeast! I’ll probably be switching in between

Quick question, is power druid viable? Ill gear both but ill gear soulbeast (so berserker). If i wanna use nevermore can i sill druid as power? Doing t4 (not talking about being the best of the best)

@Tataienstein.7581 said:Quick question, is power druid viable? Ill gear both but ill gear soulbeast (so berserker). If i wanna use nevermore can i sill druid as power? Doing t4 (not talking about being the best of the best)

Not played anymore. Was played a lot when weavers were super op but nowadays its not really worth it anymore. You either go power dps soulbeast or heal druid as a ranger in fractals.

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Tataienstein.7581 said:Quick question, is power druid viable? Ill gear both but ill gear soulbeast (so berserker). If i wanna use nevermore can i sill druid as power? Doing t4 (not talking about being the best of the best)

dammit i wanted to craft nevermore :(

@Tataienstein.7581 said:Quick question, is power druid viable? Ill gear both but ill gear soulbeast (so berserker). If i wanna use nevermore can i sill druid as power? Doing t4 (not talking about being the best of the best)

Well you still can play power druid if you want, it's still work in low tier fractal(scale 1~50 ) , dungeon and open world map. But above 50, especially 75~100, or raid one day, you'll find out that your power druid become useless. (cant keep your friends alive all time , cant keep up boons and you hit like wet noodles)

Remember these hard content doesn't allow people to always play what they want. Creatures and bosses hit like truck, you and your friend have to focus on their own duty and do it well -- healer, boons support and pure fighter.

Zerker druid still has its own place ,which is boon support melee fighter(only ranger's sword/greatword and off hand axe can bring some nice damage, not including staff). About healing , Anet adjust druid to make sure any non-healing build are unable to heal others.

To sum up, it's ok to play power druid with staff in easy content, and switch to heal build for hard content.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Tataienstein.7581 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Tataienstein.7581 said:My friend are warrior,guardian and thief.So i was thinking going chronomancer or soulbeast for boon/dps.

3. You are referring to 3 friends, one of which plays a warrior, one a guardian and one a thief

• Firebrand support can carry through any content, even without an alacrity providing class
• both chrono or Renegade will provide alacrity to this group
• any additional dps will be useful to this group, Soulbeast would be my top pick
• you'll want to go with a power setup for dungeons and fractals

Don’t think he will full support. He’s doing hybrid right now (full berserker FB) and maby gonna switch dh? What are we missing in this case? Big healer?

@Tataienstein.7581 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Tataienstein.7581 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Tataienstein.7581 said:My friend are warrior,guardian and thief.So i was thinking going chronomancer or soulbeast for boon/dps.

3. You are referring to 3 friends, one of which plays a warrior, one a guardian and one a thief

• Firebrand support can carry through any content, even without an alacrity providing class
• both chrono or Renegade will provide alacrity to this group
• any additional dps will be useful to this group, Soulbeast would be my top pick
• you'll want to go with a power setup for dungeons and fractals

Depends on how good you are, but in general most non speed clear or very high skill groups run 1 dedicated healer, yes.

Top suggestion: heal renegeade.Alternatives: heal druid (group will lack alacrity), heal Firebrand (make your friend go dps DH) or heal scrouge (group will lack fury and might which could be provided via the warrior).

Going back to the original question about meta, DPS is currently the role that require the most switching of class depending on the boss. Not doing that results in the person being effectively 1/3 to 2/3 of the other DPS players in the squad. Good groups can carry but it not something which should be relied on. A good criteria I use is that the DPS should have damage that is significant higher than the BS.

As a overall rule it is best to view DPS meta as a simple question about the boss. Does the boss has mechanics that create short DPS phase where player can damage the boss? If yes then power should be used over condi since condi take time to ramp up and power can more easily burst damage in short durations. If the boss has no mechanic phases or very long damage phase, then condi damage is significant better.

At minimal I would say a DPS player in raid need one condi and one power class in order to do full wing clears. In practice however I would say a minimum of one mirage since condi rev is not particular great in all cases where mirage is used. For power I would go daredevil, where it currently shine in many fights. Dragonhunter is nice addition to have. Weaver/DPS chrono get a mentioning as a speed run optimization, but I have seen very few of them in normal runs.

For fractals this is mostly a question about the team. Will the boss die fast or slow. A fast kill means power, and a slow kill means condi. A slow kill however might mean that the team is struggling so you then might want to have a more self-sustained build like scourge condi build with healing trait.

The DPS classes I would avoid gearing in current meta, in spite of benchmarks, is soulbeast, all engineer builds, deadeye, and weaver.

Support is a very different beast and involve a lot of question about composition, much which has been explored in above comments. The only thing I will add is that BS has only needed two builds for the last few years, and is in my view the most relaxed role in raiding and fractals.