[suggestion] mesmers shatters

So what if F1 and F2 shatters would require for Mesmer to AIM at special place - after using F1 or F2, clones are running to choosen place, and there they blow up. It would prevent clones through running the half of a map after target , and force Mesmer to plan they shatters more, instead of just shattering when 3 clones are up. I think it would be more healthy and skillfull mechanic.Not gonna post it on mesmer forum, cuz I will be eaten alive

Bad idea. It takes away some of the carrying ability and that's just not acceptable for mesmer mains.

@Safandula.8723 said:So what if F1 and F2 shatters would require for Mesmer to AIM at special place - after using F1 or F2, clones are running to choosen place, and there they blow up. It would prevent clones through running the half of a map after target , and force Mesmer to plan they shatters more, instead of just shattering when 3 clones are up. I think it would be more healthy and skillfull mechanic.Not gonna post it on mesmer forum, cuz I will be eaten alive

You knew this was a terrible suggestion that's why you arent posting it in the relevent forum.

@Safandula.8723 said:So what if F1 and F2 shatters would require for Mesmer to AIM at special place - after using F1 or F2, clones are running to choosen place, and there they blow up. It would prevent clones through running the half of a map after target , and force Mesmer to plan they shatters more, instead of just shattering when 3 clones are up. I think it would be more healthy and skillfull mechanic.Not gonna post it on mesmer forum, cuz I will be eaten alive

You shouldn't have posted it here because a bad idea is a bad idea no matter what.

Don't exaggerate claims because if you really want to have a fruitful discussion, at least be specific, don't generalize, and at least come with ideas that make sense.

Now if you must, here's why this is a terrible idea:1) Pathing - AI pathing is absolutely terrible in this game. If shatters are ground targeted then I expect them to teleport to my location ignoring LOS and pathing.2) Zombies - illusions move at a zombie pace if you shatter from a distance then it'd be more even easier to dodge them.3) You didn't even explain why this would be healthy or at least skillful other than adding more clunk on top of clunk.

@"phokus.8934" said:

3) You didn't even explain why this would be healthy or at least skillful other than adding more clunk on top of clunk.

"Mesmer to plan they shatters more, instead of just shattering when 3 clones are up." Mesmer have to mark the target where clones will detonate, sooo when someone from far sees, clones are running at him, he can just sidestep. Sooooo, Mesmer is forced to to use it on close targets or the stunned, immobilised ones.Abouth ur patching issues - are ranger pets randomly teleporting to you?

@"Solori.6025" " said:

Thanks for constructive criticism, ur deep thoughts made me wonder about my idea once again!

@"Solori.6025" " said:

Their are not only downsides of this, now after making clones, u can shatter them on other enemies, than they are targeted on

I see this was moved.Guess my first comment no longer applies now :D

GL OP

Shatters already have counterplay, 'instant cast' is just a misleading pithy remark made by people who can't recognize when clones are lazily meandering after them or haven't yet figured out that the shatter is going to immediately follow Axe 3 or IA. Seriously can we focus on actual problems like Mirages overtuned sPvP condi output and the dodge while cc'ed bit?

@Safandula.8723 said:Their are not only downsides of this, now after making clones, u can shatter them on other enemies, than they are targeted on

So on the one side, clones remain target dependant, but now people are supposed to aim them.

Let me see:

• makes this convoluted, Mesmer are already required to manage a very clunky class mechanic
• how are you going to deal with people stacking up clones on one target, then sending them at other targets?
• also Mesmer would shatter just as much, since you didn't touch clone generation and sitting on 3 clones while producing more is inefficient, even more so when you can now send them at totally unrelated targets

I can already see the nerf Mesmer threads when people initiate fights with 3 clones they prestacked on some npc just to waiting to get the jump on someone. With all their cool downs up.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Their are not only downsides of this, now after making clones, u can shatter them on other enemies, than they are targeted on

• makes this convoluted, Mesmer are already required to manage a very clunky class mechanic
• how are you going to deal with people stacking up clones on one target, then sending them at other targets?
• also Mesmer would shatter just as much, since you didn't touch clone generation and sitting on 3 clones while producing more is inefficient, even more so when you can now send them at totally unrelated targets

This is just an issue of balance☺️and making any lifetime/range treshhold

I'm absolutely fine with this, if, like phokus said, the clones insta teleport to the location and blow up.But seeing this is just a nerf thread dressed as an idea I know you're against this because the reason you want the change is to have an easier time reacting to shatters.

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Their are not only downsides of this, now after making clones, u can shatter them on other enemies, than they are targeted on

• makes this convoluted, Mesmer are already required to manage a very clunky class mechanic
• how are you going to deal with people stacking up clones on one target, then sending them at other targets?
• also Mesmer would shatter just as much, since you didn't touch clone generation and sitting on 3 clones while producing more is inefficient, even more so when you can now send them at totally unrelated targets

Actually it's not, since your idea directly leads to a Mesmer having more clones available to initiate a fight.

You are offering an idea which in no way addresses the issue you are talking about. Clone generation is not reduced, it is in fact increased and as such, the problem you try to address, mindless shattering, does not get solved. On the contrary.

At the same time you want targeted F1+F2 which besides making things more convoluted, creates very own issues which currently are not present.

If range was an issue, then a balance and lifetime threshold would make way more sense with the current system than with added ground targeting.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Their are not only downsides of this, now after making clones, u can shatter them on other enemies, than they are targeted on

• makes this convoluted, Mesmer are already required to manage a very clunky class mechanic
• how are you going to deal with people stacking up clones on one target, then sending them at other targets?
• also Mesmer would shatter just as much, since you didn't touch clone generation and sitting on 3 clones while producing more is inefficient, even more so when you can now send them at totally unrelated targets

The main issue I'm thinking about are mesmers not even facing target and pressing their shatters waiting for ui to do their job, it's the skill issue, I didn't say it before mb. But yea as ur saying, just a lifetime of clones would also be good.

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" " said:If ur fighting in melee range, u will not have any time to react, it just require Mesmer actually more skills(cuz some specs of Mesmer requires half of brain to be effective Tbh), and it prevents mesmers from harassing enemies from far away. It would simply reduce the threat of mesmers, cuz right now this class is just stupidly strong, and it's not just issue of balance - numbers, but design.All my new friends that start to play are highly discouraged becouse they met few mesmers and had no idea wtf is happening. Im in plat1 and sometimes I also got no fking idea what is going on, cuz of visual clasterfuck of pof. To many everything on map. To many mesmers to many shades, to many wavesBTW I know not to many ppl will like the idea on this forum, I just want some constructive feedback

Alright, shall we make thief require more skill too? Stealth attacks are now location based, still one character range of course, you press the button, your character moves to the location by its own and executes the action, on range skills they're fired at the location. I think its a cool change because let's face it thieves are pretty lacklustre in terms of skill.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Alright, shall we make thief require more skill too? Stealth attacks are now location based, still one character range of course, you press the button, your character moves to the location by its own and executes the action, on range skills they're fired at the location. I think its a cool change because let's face it thieves are pretty lacklustre in terms of skill.

I think there is a difference between melee auto attacks or backstabs and skill that orders ur clones to follow ur target with the little help of ui, but I'm not rly sure.About the end of ur frustrated post, thiefs, mesmers and revs has highest skill cap, but I didn't say about it. If u want to be effective on thief without brain u just need to play deadeye, which of course needs to be nerfed, other specs of thief requires u to use brain and know the class to be effective (usually 1 stupid decision and ur dead). With Mesmer it's kinda as I previously said. Especially mirage. U fucked up? Dodge, than spam some other skills to make clones, de target, insta stealth and blink away. (BTW thief can't just insta stealth anymore)

@Safandula.8723 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Alright, shall we make thief require more skill too? Stealth attacks are now location based, still one character range of course, you press the button, your character moves to the location by its own and executes the action, on range skills they're fired at the location. I think its a cool change because let's face it thieves are pretty lacklustre in terms of skill.

Yes there is a difference, shatters are more predictable and easier to dodge.I'm not frustated, it's rather the opposite, I'm joyful, why you ask? Because as soon as gw paprika leak came out I said to my friends "if mirage has as much evade as dd people will complain like there's no tomorrow, especially thieves". And tied to this you can't imagine the satisfaction that gives me thieves, who predated mesmers since release, complaining the hardest because althought we're still countered, we're not an easy prey anymore.About skill, this game since HoT requires none on any profession.

Thief can't insta stealth true, but can stealth for days, on demand, without cds attached to stealth.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Alright, shall we make thief require more skill too? Stealth attacks are now location based, still one character range of course, you press the button, your character moves to the location by its own and executes the action, on range skills they're fired at the location. I think its a cool change because let's face it thieves are pretty lacklustre in terms of skill.

Yea autoattacks are very hard to predict. About backstab, I'm used to land 2-4k backstabs, last time I made 313 backstab on boonbeasts, I'm not rly sure if u find them problematic.Thief counters Mesmer, but it's not a hard counter in case of most builds, chaos mirage and chrono bunker have just to much sustain.Edit i fked up evade timesMirage has 2 evades, each 1 sec. Dd has 3 dodges, each 0,75 s. 2,25s>2s but, time of recahring 1s dodge is the same as recharging 0,75 s dodge, not talking about the ability to free cast on the mirage dodges. But it's whole another thing, that's going away from main topic

Wait - you mean ground targeted shatters? Hell no I'd insta quit gw2. I hate excessive ground targeting - leave that stuff for necros etc

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Alright, shall we make thief require more skill too? Stealth attacks are now location based, still one character range of course, you press the button, your character moves to the location by its own and executes the action, on range skills they're fired at the location. I think its a cool change because let's face it thieves are pretty lacklustre in terms of skill.

So you're telling me that a skill done from an undetermined stealth amount is more predictable than one which is done after a determined skill and in which 3 clones run to you.Thief counters mes still, chaos is not an issue when you can steal the boons which is what provides sustain (sd thief here).If we're counting just dodges right, if not, mirage as 2 dodges, 1 sec, 1 extra from heal mirror and 1 more from IA. DD has 3 dodges, 25 endurance gain from steal, 50 endurance from signet, 45 endurance gain from heal, so a little more than 5 dodges, on the vigor part, thief has as much on just steal than a mirage blowing all shatters and healing.As for the 1sec dodge yet again, is so mirage has the same distance travel as a normal dodge, otherwise, as in beta, you wouldn't evade dodge out of aoe with 1 dodge.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Alright, shall we make thief require more skill too? Stealth attacks are now location based, still one character range of course, you press the button, your character moves to the location by its own and executes the action, on range skills they're fired at the location. I think its a cool change because let's face it thieves are pretty lacklustre in terms of skill.

We could talk about it for a long time, but it has no sense, bad idea.I'm playing chrono in pve, and imo this change would be rly funny. Same in pvp, u have more possibilities to spike another target, but yea. Hard part is, u need to start thinking

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Alright, shall we make thief require more skill too? Stealth attacks are now location based, still one character range of course, you press the button, your character moves to the location by its own and executes the action, on range skills they're fired at the location. I think its a cool change because let's face it thieves are pretty lacklustre in terms of skill.

No, hard part is that a skill that's easily dodgeable becomes even more easy to dodge.

@Safandula.8723 said:So what if F1 and F2 shatters would require for Mesmer to AIM at special place - after using F1 or F2, clones are running to choosen place, and there they blow up. It would prevent clones through running the half of a map after target , and force Mesmer to plan they shatters more, instead of just shattering when 3 clones are up. I think it would be more healthy and skillfull mechanic.Not gonna post it on mesmer forum, cuz I will be eaten alive

It takes an auto attack to kill a clone. Who cares if they follow you? Just kill them