My Balance wishlist (brace yourselves, it's a wall) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

My Balance wishlist (brace yourselves, it's a wall)

Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited February 12, 2019 in PVP

So this is MY list(basically a nerf list) for what I'd like the next balance patch to include. I'm not against buffing unused aspects of the professions but honestly almost none of the classes need buffs to them at this point. With a few notable exceptions. On another note, I realize I don't know all the classes inside and out so if anything stands out to you, feel free to notify me. Be civil though. I know it's a hard ask in this particular sub-forum but do try.
One more thing, all numeric nerfs should be considered PvP only so don't comment if this would IYO nerf your raid build as it probably wouldn't.
I'll go in alphabetical order.


Elementalist:
It's hard for me to assess what S/D Weaver would need as on paper it looks alright. Maybe the only thing needed is for the competition to come down a notch. So I focused on improving the Earth traitline to create more synergies for Tempest to utilize. I had more ideas but decided to exclude them as they were a bit too large to implement within the scope of balance.

  • Blinding Ashes: This trait has been redone. Now inflicts Blind on foes you strike with a Leap Combo Finisher. Cleanse a condition from yourself whenever you Blind a foe. This trait has a 3 second internal cooldown. Cancelled.
  • Electric Discharge: Increased the base damage inflicted by this trait by 30%.
  • Raging Storm: Fury duration has been increased to 4 seconds from 2 s. Bonus Ferocity gained has been reduced to 150 from 250. NEW, REVISION B
  • Elemental Shielding: Increased the duration of Protection gained from 2 second to 3.
  • Earthen Blast: This trait now also inflicts 2 stacks of Bleeding for 5 seconds. I still think this would bring it to the same level of the other minor master traits. REV C.
  • Rock Solid: Increased the duration of Stability gained from 2 seconds to 3.
  • Geomancer's Defense: When you have Protection on you, now also inflicts 1 stack of Bleeding for 3 seconds on foes that strike you. Cancelled.
  • Harmonious Conduit: Increased Stability gained from 1 stack to 2.

Engineer:
Mainly I want Photon Forge to have more clearly cut damage skills and utility skills instead of everything just doing a ton of damage.

  • Light Strike: Increased the damage of this skill by 25%.
  • Holo Leap: Decreased the damage of this skill by 40%. Increased the cooldown from 2 to 3 second. Swiftness duration increased from 3 to 5 seconds. Reduced the Heat generated from 7% to 5%.
  • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced the damage of this skill by 25%. This skill will also no longer be a guaranteed critical hit. Heat generated is reduced from 25% to 20%.
  • Thermal Release Valve: Heat lost by dodging is reduced from 15% to 10%.
  • Emergency Elixir: Baseline Barrier gained is increased by 50% from 3000 to 4500.
  • Elixir U: Reduced the duration of all boons gained from 6 seconds to 4.
  • Prime Light Beam: Reduced the direct damage of this skill by 20%.

Guardian:
I'll admit I'm slightly biased here, Guardian is what I consider my main. I think Greatsword is slightly overtuned at the moment, and if I'm to suggest damage nerfs to most classes, Firebrands healing and support needs to come down a notch too. I also want to buff Shouts and their related trait to be slightly more competitive.

  • Whirling Wrath: Reduced the damage of all parts of this skill by 15%. Binding Blade: Reduced the over time damage of this skill by 20%. Initial damage remains the same. Mighty Blow: Reduced the damage of this skill by 10%. Cancelled.
  • Tome of Resolve: Chapter 4: Cooldown of this skill has been increased to 12 seconds from 10.
  • Chapter 5: Cooldown of this skill has been increased to 15 seconds from 12.
  • Tome of Courage: Chapter 4: Cooldown of this skill has been increased to 12 seconds from 10. The duration is increased from 4 seconds to 5.
  • "Retreat!": This skill now uses the ammo mechanic, and has 2 charges. Grants 5 seconds of Aegis and 12 seconds of Swiftness. Has an 8 second cooldown between charges and the count recharge is 30 seconds.
  • "Feel My Wrath!": This skill now also grants Retaliation for 8 seconds. (This purely for PvE, RF will still rule supreme in PvP)
  • Righteous Instincts: Bonus critical chance gained from this trait has been reduced to 33% from 50%. NEW, REVISION B
  • Pure of Voice: Shouts can now affect 10 targets, and grant you Aegis for 3 seconds when used.
  • Ray of Judgment: This skill will now turn the Guardian to face their target before casting.

Mesmer:
I'm going to support some of @Trigr.6481 suggestions regarding these but I have things to add. Not gonna repeat them so just gonna link it here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67574/countless-pvp-mesmer-suggestions#latest What my changes boil down to is I want to remove any mass application of Torment from Mesmer, and replace it with either Bleed or Confusion. What I think Mirages biggest transgression is, is the fact that it can load you up with both Torment and Confusion which heavily punishes any action you do afterwards. While replacing Torment with Bleed/Confusion might make Mesmer do more baseline condition damage and reduce "counterplay", if you seriously consider not moving counterplay, it won't punish you as much for kiting or running away.

  • Maim the Disillusioned: 6 seconds of Torment is replaced by 6 seconds of Bleeding. Cancelled.
  • Illusionary Counter: 5 stacks of Torment for 8 seconds is replaced by 5 stacks of Bleeding for 8 seconds. The cooldown of this skill has been increased from 6 seconds to 8 seconds. EDIT, REVISION C
  • Ethereal Chop: 2 seconds of Torment is replaced by 2 seconds of Bleed. EDIT, REVISION C
  • Mirror Strikes: 6 seconds of Torment is replaced by 6 seconds of Bleed. EDIT, REVISION C
  • Lingering Thoughts: 3 stacks of Torment for 4 seconds is replaced by 3 stacks of Bleeding for 4 seconds. Count recharge has been increased to 15 seconds from 10. EDIT, REVISION B
  • Ether Barrage: 2 seconds of Torment is replaced by 2 seconds of Bleeding.
  • Imaginary Axes: Each stack of Torment that would be applied for 4 seconds is now 2 seconds of Bleeding and Confusion per stack.
  • Confusing Images: Reduced the damage done by this skill by 15%. NEW, REVISION C
  • Chaos Vortex can keep its Torment for all I care, staff is the least problematic weapon of all.

Necromancer:
I feel like Necromancer is in a good spot in regards to PvP. It has a powerful presence in teamfights but falls easily if under focus or alone. I think there should be better builds for sustaining on your own without support but I don't have any good suggestions towards that end. However I do have a few suggestions regarding some weapons as well as unused Elite Spec skills and traits.

  • Necrotic Slash: This skill now grants 2% Life Force.
  • Necrotic Stab: Increased the damage of this skill by 20%.
  • Life Siphon: Increased the base damage and healing of the skill by 20%.
  • Dark Pact: Increased the range of this skill to 900 from 600.
  • Reaper's Touch: The cooldown of this skill has been decreased to 10 seconds from 15. The casting time has been reduced to 0,25 seconds from 0,75 seconds.
  • "Suffer!": Now transfers 2 conditions per foe struck.
  • "Rise!": This shout gains a secondary skill called "Fall!". When used, you sacrifice all your minions that were raised by "Rise!". Each minion explodes for damage and heals you for a yet undetermined amount. Somewhere between 400 - 700 should be fine.
  • Dessicate: Reduced the casting time of this skill from 1 second to 0,25 seconds. (The casting time on this skill makes no sense considering what it does which is basically nothing)
  • Relentless Pursuit: Reduced durations are now 50% and 100%. Entering Shroud does not remove these conditions.
  • Feed from Corruption: You now also gain a small amount of health from Boons gained by corruption.
  • Reaper's Onslaught: Bonus Ferocity gained has been reduced to 150 from 300. PvP only. NEW, REVISION B
  • Death Perception: Bonus Ferocity gained has been reduced to 150 from 300. PvP only. NEW, REVISION B

Ranger:
So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

  • Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.
  • Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names. Cancelled.
  • Jackal Essence: This item has been added to the list of items that can be found by using Forage. Teleport forward(range 600), gaining Barrier(1000ish) at your destination. This ability is instant but does not break stuns. NEW, REVISION C
  • Potion of Freedom: This item has been added to the list of items that can be found by using Forage. Break stuns and remove movement-impairing conditions. Gain 1 second of Superspeed for each condition removed. NEW, REVISION C
  • Sic Em: The damage bonus added by this skill has been split. It now grants you 20% more damage when in Beastmode instead of 40%. EDIT, REVISION C
  • Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s. EDIT, REVISION B
  • Griffon Stance: Increased Endurance recovery rate has been reduced to 50% from 100%. NEW, REVISION C
  • One Wolf Pack: Individual strike damage has been reduced by 20%.
  • Fresh Reinforcement: This trait has swapped places with Eternal Bond, and is now in the Grandmaster tier. NEW, REVISION C
  • Eternal Bond: This trait has swapped places with Fresh Reinforcement, and is now in the Adept tier. NEW, REVISION C

Revenant:
I don't have a whole lot of things to throw here. Some re-balancing and reduction of burst damage while emphasizing a slightly more pressuring kind of damage.

  • Shackling Wave: Casting time is reduced to 0,75 seconds from 1. Additional strike damage has been reduced by 15%.
  • Deathstrike: Secondary strike damage has been reduced by 15%.
  • Renewing Wave: Increased the healing gained by 20%. Added skill fact: If you Blast a field with this skill, cleansed conditions are turned into boons instead.
  • Impossible Odds: Increased secondary strike damage by 20%.
  • Jade Winds: Decreased energy cost to 40 from 50.
  • Hardening Persistence: Damage reduction gained is increased from 1% to 2%. NEW, REVISION B

Thief:
Damage reductions for Deadeye and undoing some mistakes from the previous patch.

  • Death's Judgment: Reduced the bonus damage from Malice from 15% to 10%.
  • Binding Shadow: Knockdown duration has been reduced to 1 second from 3. Poison and vulnerability duration have been reduced from 10 to 5 seconds. This skill no longer removes boons. EDIT, REVISION B
  • Blinding Powder: This skill now casts instantly. No longer grants Stability.
  • Dagger Storm: The duration of this skill has been reduced to 3 seconds from 4 seconds while the attack interval and animation speed have been increased by 25%.
  • Lead Attacks: This trait can now be stacked out of combat again.
  • Silent Scope: This trait now has a cooldown of 5 seconds.

Warrior:
Many of warriors current issues can be solved by just bringing down the powercreep of the other classes. I think it's fairly well balanced. I do have a few things in mind though. Mainly some things to reduce reliance on Warrior's Sprint for MS, and give Berserker more ways to sustain as it doesn't gain full benefits from traits like Adrenal Health.

  • Signet of Rage: This skill now passively grants you 25% Movement Speed.
  • Fatal Frenzy: Swiftness granted by this trait has been increased to 6 seconds from 3.
  • Bloody Roar: Added to the trait: 25% of Primal Burst skills direct damage is returned to you as health. This effect is limited to 3 targets struck.

Well, that got out of control fast. :lol:
This list is by no means comprehensive nor is it realistic thinking it's going to happen any time soon. So settle down, little monkeys!
I'm open to adding more suggestions if I feel like they are realistic and cater to balance. Also if you think I haven't thought something through, feel free to point that out as well.

<1

Comments

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My Tl;dr wishlist:

    Engineer:
    Buff Medi Kit.
    Fix the Medi kit auto attack animation.
    Little support love for scrapper.

    Warrior:
    Buff (in PvE only): Greatsword, Longbow, Rifle.
    (Longbow needs a bit QoL and no real dmg buff.)

    Make Power Berserker great again.

    Thats all i want!

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nice idea. :smile: And do not worry, the wall is not too big (yet)!

    I would like to add a little to my main professions. I will focus on main points, not adjusting details, numbers or bigger reworks, which still might be needed here and there. But number tweaks are easier and much more realistic to change.

    The cursive ones are only for a general condi application AND condi cleanse tune down! I want these for much much more build diversity and less oppressive condi builds, but they would require much more changes to other builds (firebrand, prot holo, scourge condi application, etc.). I doubt this will be realistic, so maybe just stick to the non cursive ones.

    Elementalist:
    1. Give weaver sword dual attacks higher range: Pyro Vortex and Twin Strike, normalize to Gale Strike: Range 170, increase radius to 120 (at least).
    2. Make Shearing edge and Natural Frenzy castable behind you again.
    3. Increase barrier from Elemental Refreshment significantly.
    4. Reduce CD of Riptide and Earthen Vortex to adjust sustainability (~15s).
    5. Increase Electric Discharge damage, as you said.
    6. Introduce internal CD to FA of 1s.
    7. Arcane Prowess gives fury instead of might again or increase number of might to 3.
    8. Tempest: Make stability baseline, add AoE stab to Harmonious Conduit.

    9. Put in an internal CD for Woven Stride's reg on swiftness application. 3s should be fine.

    Mesmer:
    1. Make evade during stun (and maybe immobilize) not baseline, give it to EM and get rid of stunbreak and exhaustion.
    2. Not sure about mirage cloak for clones with Infinite Horizon. Maybe just keeping the ambush skills, but I would wait with this if it was still needed.
    3. Increase Axes of Symmetry's CD to 15s and let it spawn one additional clone.
    4. Delete clone generation of Lingering Thoughts.
    5. Revert change to Confounding Suggestions (Make power mes great again!).
    6. Either reduce damage of Confusing Images by ~20% or increase CD to 15s.
    7. Increase CD of Illusionary Counter to 8s. Let it spawn only one clone.

    8. Give axe access only to two conditions instead of 4: Bleed and confusion, no torment, no cripple. Replace on axe 2.
    9. No confusion from Phantasmal Mage, daze can remain then.
    10. Not sure about staff's cover condi fest... maybe no vulnerability from Phantasmal Warlock.
    11. Ambush skills: Chaos Vortex reduced condi application for clones. Make it only two conditions.

    I would like to add some things about classes I know, but am no expert on.

    Guardian:
    1. Decrease additional crit chance of Righteous Instincs to 33% (normalize with srhoud from necro).
    2. Increase some symbol damage coefficients for DPS, maybe also AA damage. Idea is to increase DPS instead of burst.

    Thief:
    1. Daggerstorm duration down to 3s. It can keep cripple, but delete the movement speed increase so people can at least kite it. If CD was to be reduced to 60s, it would need a decrease in damage as well (~30-40%).

    I like some of your holo suggestions, necro I agree is kind of fine (scourge might need condi reductions if a general condi rework would happen). Warrior I don't know enough about to make resonable suggestions, and I am too angry about boonbeast, so I will leave this to others. I do think it would need more changes than you suggested though. And rev could use the same changes like core guard, away from burst to DPS (a little).

    One more suggestion: Some combo fields are extremely underwhelming and could need a buff. Not water fields, but explo finishers in fire could use 5 might instead of 3 for example. Make stacking might a) harder for everyone apart from fields or b) easier for builds needing the fields.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    Mesmer:
    4. Delete clone generation of Lingering Thoughts.

    On this one, how would you generate clones with axe?

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yikers on those Revenant changes.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019

    @Yannir.4132
    (Why would you even nerf guardian GS?Because radiance boost damage beyond belief ? Why not nerf stupid 50% crit chance trait and buff other traitlines to be more viable ? While you are there nerf smite condition in damage(slightly,or just remove boosted damage when condition cleansed) , smells like break enchantment)
    I dont want to list everything but lets look on dolyak stance 40s cd 33% damage reduction that stack with other damage reducing effects that gives stability and condition immunity for 9s(traited) and some utility that also stunbreak like blinding powder or mesmer decoy .40s cd but they dont get all those crazy benefits while on same cooldown.
    Binding shadow have 6 different effects which include soft and hard CC along side with boon removal, 15% damage increase damage ,poison and damage 1200 range and only 30s.
    Daggerstorm need to be smitersbooned and never allowed to be recharged by improvisation . In fact its need a rework . RNG shouldnt affect your gameplay.
    Oh lol , I just seen necro buff list , I think he lied that he guardian main,he is a necro main in disguise
    Can we have a better wishlist? :disappointed:

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019

    @Yannir.4132
    Disagree with your nerfs to whirling wrath and mighty blow.

    1. If you nerf whirling wrath by as much as you suggested, it will essentially return to what it was two years ago which was literally hitting 1.5-4k on average (not landing all hits), and mayyyyybe 5-7k if all hits are landed. This is far too low. The last time GS received buffs they were well deserved and GS damage should stay where it is, both pvp and pve.

    2. I agree with bringing down the ridiculous burst of core guard build, however I believe 10% damage nerf to MB would effectively neuter it and make any non-radiance hammer builds useless (although no one really cares about this). This may be the bias in me talking but I believe the better changes would be compensatory buffs in tandem with nerfs. For example: Nerf MB by 10% but increase the range to 450 (makes it a more reliable attack), AND, decrease damage from Shield of Wrath (Focus 5) by 20% but decrease cooldown to 30s from its current 35s.

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019

    I disagree with a few of the rev changes, I'd rather see this happen:

    • Root removed from shield 5 so it becomes a viable defensive choice (can combine with hardening persistance to gain condi removal)
    • Target splits for sword 2, 3, and 4 removed (4 has damage nerfed by 10-20% but will act as a large aoe attack that can hit multiple targets without splitting damage which increases it's viability in teamfights while removing it's overperforming damage from a skirmish/1v1 scenario)
    • Sword 5 redesigned to basically work like guard's spear of justice that instead of burn pulses life siphon and cripple, cycles to a secondary pull skill so each of rev's OH weps serves a different playstyle (shield for defense, sword for isolating a target from their allies via pull, and axe for porting into the fray and providing cc)

    I have some other changes to suggest but those are more on the rework side for rev and are really better suited for another thread.

    Also deadeye first and foremost needs to not have stealth on dodge. After that is changed you can adjust the class to function better, but that is a balance atrocity that needs to be gone.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    I like those thief changes. They do a better job of cutting down on Deadeye burst without hamstringing other builds and they also cut down on the cheesiness of things like stealth dodge.

    I'd love to see those go live, but I don't expect them to backtrack on the lead attacks nerf 100% on the very next balance patch, sadly.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    So this is MY list(basically a nerf list) for what I'd like the next balance patch to include. I'm not against buffing unused aspects of the professions but honestly almost none of the classes need buffs to them at this point. With a few notable exceptions. On another note, I realize I don't know all the classes inside and out so if anything stands out to you, feel free to notify me. Be civil though. I know it's a hard ask in this particular sub-forum but do try.
    One more thing, all numeric nerfs should be considered PvP only so don't comment if this would IYO nerf your raid build as it probably wouldn't.
    I'll go in alphabetical order.

    {snip of large wall O text, you can read it, it's first post}

    Well, that got out of control fast. :lol:
    This list is by no means comprehensive nor is it realistic thinking it's going to happen any time soon. So settle down, little monkeys!
    I'm open to adding more suggestions if I feel like they are realistic and cater to balance. Also if you think I haven't thought something through, feel free to point that out as well.

    I too would like a unicorn and Mr Robot to wipe out all my debt.

    However, I do agree on the remove Torment from Mesmer thing. I think the biggest problem with Boons and Condi's are that everyone has access to most all of them, almost all the time. I think the game would be better balanced if they went back to the idea of some boons and conditions are restricted to a few specific classes.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    Mesmer:
    4. Delete clone generation of Lingering Thoughts.

    On this one, how would you generate clones with axe?

    You mean how it is done currently with axe 2? Or how I would like to see it? As I wrote, with axe 3 on a longer CD. I was also thinking about deleting the ammunition of axe 2, but I think it is good to have two of them as a burst variant. But spawning clones on each axe 2 just enhances all the visual clutter, ambushes, body blocking. A main advantage of condi mirage compared to power builds is the extreme clone generation possibilities (axe 2, staff 3, clone on dodge). I would like to adjust this issue without touching power mesmer.

    The same thought was behind "only one clone for scepter 2", but of course, if you have better solutions for axe to reduce this issue, I would be happy for ideas - or, well, if you don't think it is an issue at all (which would be interesting, because the clone generation and power of condi mesmer is a main advantage over power builds - in my view).

    €: I would also like more constructive input instead of "oh jeez, I don't like that". Maybe different suggestions, maybe for more classes, other issues you see. :smile:

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    Mesmer:
    4. Delete clone generation of Lingering Thoughts.

    On this one, how would you generate clones with axe?

    You mean how it is done currently with axe 2? Or how I would like to see it? As I wrote, with axe 3 on a longer CD. I was also thinking about deleting the ammunition of axe 2, but I think it is good to have two of them as a burst variant. But spawning clones on each axe 2 just enhances all the visual clutter, ambushes, body blocking. A main advantage of condi mirage compared to power builds is the extreme clone generation possibilities (axe 2, staff 3, clone on dodge). I would like to adjust this issue without touching power mesmer.

    The same thought was behind "only one clone for scepter 2", but of course, if you have better solutions for axe to reduce this issue, I would be happy for ideas - or, well, if you don't think it is an issue at all (which would be interesting, because the clone generation and power of condi mesmer is a main advantage over power builds - in my view).

    €: I would also like more constructive input instead of "oh jeez, I don't like that". Maybe different suggestions, maybe for more classes, other issues you see. :smile:

    How you would like to see it. Didn't saw it on axe 3, I wouldn't be sad, but people already complain axe 3 does too much. And it would allow a faster burst.
    Axe 2 without the clones would be lacklustre, it's only purpose is precisely the clone spawn tho.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019

    @Odik.4587 said:
    (Why would you even nerf guardian GS?Because radiance boost damage beyond belief ? Why not nerf stupid 50% crit chance trait and buff other traitlines to be more viable ? While you are there nerf smite condition in damage(slightly,or just remove boosted damage when condition cleansed) , smells like break enchantment)

    Those changes may have been in bad judgment. Clearly Righteous Instincts should be on the block for nerfs. I'll revise my suggestions later, still wanna see some more comments.

    I dont want to list everything but lets look on dolyak stance 40s cd 33% damage reduction that stack with other damage reducing effects that gives stability and condition immunity for 9s(traited) and some utility that also stunbreak like blinding powder or mesmer decoy .40s cd but they dont get all those crazy benefits while on same cooldown.

    Blinding Powder or Decoy are convenient comparisons but you forgot the most obvious skill to compare it to. Balanced Stance, which has the same cd, on warrior. Dolyak Stance really isn't that much stronger. That said, Soulbeast does need more nerfs in addition to the ones I suggested. It's just a starting point.

    Binding shadow have 6 different effects which include soft and hard CC along side with boon removal, 15% damage increase damage ,poison and damage 1200 range and only 30s.

    Having a lot of effects isn't too bad if they are all minor effects so what I did was nerf the strongest aspects of Binding Shadow. I'm still debating if I should throw the Boon removal out of the skill entirely in addition. Would seem reasonable.

    Daggerstorm need to be smitersbooned and never allowed to be recharged by improvisation . In fact its need a rework . RNG shouldnt affect your gameplay.
    Oh lol , I just seen necro buff list , I think he lied that he guardian main,he is a necro main in disguise

    Whole lotta hyperbole here. If Dagger Storm would still be too strong after a duration nerf, we can look at it again.

    @Ario.8964 said:
    I disagree with a few of the rev changes, I'd rather see this happen:

    • Root removed from shield 5 so it becomes a viable defensive choice (can combine with hardening persistance to gain condi removal)
    • Target splits for sword 2, 3, and 4 removed (4 has damage nerfed by 10-20% but will act as a large aoe attack that can hit multiple targets without splitting damage which increases it's viability in teamfights while removing it's overperforming damage from a skirmish/1v1 scenario)
    • Sword 5 redesigned to basically work like guard's spear of justice that instead of burn pulses life siphon and cripple, cycles to a secondary pull skill so each of rev's OH weps serves a different playstyle (shield for defense, sword for isolating a target from their allies via pull, and axe for porting into the fray and providing cc)

    You're welcome to your opinion but I disagree with it. Most of those change suggestions are ones I've seen in the rev forum for years now. If they were ever going to unroot shield 5, it would've happened already. While I like your suggestion for sword 5, I find it unlikely they'll redesign the skill a second time so I don't see it as a realistic change to ask.

    I have some other changes to suggest but those are more on the rework side for rev and are really better suited for another thread.

    I'll look forward to that then.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2019

    mine are:
    engi
    holo 2 - increased cd to 4 sec.
    holo 3 - increased cd to 8 sec. reduce radius to 240.
    holo 5 - reduced aoe from 600 to 450. removed ability to hit people on higher or lower elevations.
    mes
    riddle of sand - removed.
    axe 3 - take off 2 confuse stax.
    nerf torment on shatter from 4 sec to 2 sec.
    nerf torch burn from 9 sec to 3 sec.
    necro
    gs 3 - 600 range leap.
    wurm - instant cast, summons on first activation.
    traited dagger gives dagger 3 a teleport.
    ranger
    nerf the massive stat boosts from beastmastery when going into beastmode.
    sic em to 25% sounds good.
    nerf protection uptime of soulbeast.
    rev
    remove some unnecessary energy costs.
    make renegade good.
    teef
    nerf dagger storm range.
    5 sec cd on silent scope sounds good.
    war
    give kick 450 range lol and make the animation faster.
    make mace aa chain faster.
    give mace burst 450 range leap.
    unsuspecting foe - changed to get 2 might stax for 3 sec when hitting a disabled foe.
    burst precision - changed to burst skills are automatically critical hits, gain 100% critical hit chance for 2 seconds after using a burst skill.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    Mesmer:
    4. Delete clone generation of Lingering Thoughts.

    On this one, how would you generate clones with axe?

    You mean how it is done currently with axe 2? Or how I would like to see it? As I wrote, with axe 3 on a longer CD. I was also thinking about deleting the ammunition of axe 2, but I think it is good to have two of them as a burst variant. But spawning clones on each axe 2 just enhances all the visual clutter, ambushes, body blocking. A main advantage of condi mirage compared to power builds is the extreme clone generation possibilities (axe 2, staff 3, clone on dodge). I would like to adjust this issue without touching power mesmer.

    The same thought was behind "only one clone for scepter 2", but of course, if you have better solutions for axe to reduce this issue, I would be happy for ideas - or, well, if you don't think it is an issue at all (which would be interesting, because the clone generation and power of condi mesmer is a main advantage over power builds - in my view).

    €: I would also like more constructive input instead of "oh jeez, I don't like that". Maybe different suggestions, maybe for more classes, other issues you see. :smile:

    How you would like to see it. Didn't saw it on axe 3, I wouldn't be sad, but people already complain axe 3 does too much. And it would allow a faster burst.
    Axe 2 without the clones would be lacklustre, it's only purpose is precisely the clone spawn tho.

    It still is a whirl finisher and adds conditions (whatever conditions that would be). But I admit, I kind of like the "leave behind a mirror which becomes a clone if an enemy is nearby"-mechanic. It is just completely guaranteed a clone when fighting on point. But would a higher recharge time on axe 2 be better? Or getting rid of the ammunition completely? Or reduce the "spawn range" by 50% from 450ish to 200 or so?

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arcaedus.7290 said:
    Disagree with your nerfs to whirling wrath and mighty blow.

    1. If you nerf whirling wrath by as much as you suggested, it will essentially return to what it was two years ago which was literally hitting 1.5-4k on average (not landing all hits), and mayyyyybe 5-7k if all hits are landed. This is far too low. The last time GS received buffs they were well deserved and GS damage should stay where it is, both pvp and pve.

    2. I agree with bringing down the ridiculous burst of core guard build, however I believe 10% damage nerf to MB would effectively neuter it and make any non-radiance hammer builds useless (although no one really cares about this). This may be the bias in me talking but I believe the better changes would be compensatory buffs in tandem with nerfs. For example: Nerf MB by 10% but increase the range to 450 (makes it a more reliable attack), AND, decrease damage from Shield of Wrath (Focus 5) by 20% but decrease cooldown to 30s from its current 35s.

    Here I was thinking I did a minor nerf to it. Did you read the part where I mentioned that these numeric nerfs would not extend to PvE? I really can't think of any other build that ever really used hammer other than PvE ones.
    But I think I'm subbing out all the weapon damage nerfs in favor of adjusting Righteous Instincts which is the real offender.

    My personal opinion is that there have been far too many buffs to skills without compensating nerfs. Or the compensation has been taken out of defenses which has put the game into a state where there is far too much damage.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Original post has been updated with some edits and a few new ideas.
    MARKED AS REVISION B, LIKE THIS

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    Original post has been updated with some edits and a few new ideas.
    MARKED AS REVISION B, LIKE THIS

    Interesting balance wishlist

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Regarding axe ambush - it had confusion on it at the beginning and this was in some ways more powerful than it is now. I'm all for reducing the torment spam, but not sure if adding back more confusion spam is appropriate here.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    Here I was thinking I did a minor nerf to it. Did you read the part where I mentioned that these numeric nerfs would not extend to PvE? I really can't think of any other build that ever really used hammer other than PvE ones.
    But I think I'm subbing out all the weapon damage nerfs in favor of adjusting Righteous Instincts which is the real offender.

    My personal opinion is that there have been far too many buffs to skills without compensating nerfs. Or the compensation has been taken out of defenses which has put the game into a state where there is far too much damage.

    I did read that. Sorry I wasn't clear, but was talking more from a pvp standpoint. WW especially was pretty bad in pvp before they buffed GS nearly two years ago. I remember watching one of mrauls' pvp compilations of him running GS & sc/f DH build back before GS got buffed, and I saw at one point, he was outplaying his opponent, landed whirling wrath on an someone who just blew a dodge, and they were able to simply run out of range (since WW slows your own movement) and only ended up taking 2.8k damage (no protection on). I think I remember him trying to combo GS 5 pull --> whirling wrath at one point and the opponent only ended up taking 4.5k damage before dodging out. Seeing those low numbers made me feel a bit sad...

    Core guard in pvp right now uses hammer. People complain about it quite a bit and the scenario of a core guard +1ing or side-swiping someone who is unaware and essentially one-shotting them isn't all that uncommon in pvp which is why I think it should be nerfed to some degree.

    Definitely agree with you though - RI is the real offender and I'd much rather smash that trait than any of the weapons (which I think are in a good spot for various other non-radiance builds). Haven't really thought about how it should be nerfed though.

    I'd like to clarify though: If your goal was to nerf damage wholesale for every single class, I'd totally approve of whirling wrath returning to what it was 2 years ago, and MB getting a hefty nerf to the point of only critting 4-5.5k max. It seems though you're trying to cast a wide net here with changes to every class which is GREAT to see, but it looks like you're trying to do minimal work to balance the outliers in our current meta. At least that's what I assumed when I said I'd be opposed to those two damage nerfs.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    @Yannir.4132 This is a pretty balanced well thought out nerf list.

    I don't know if I agree with the nerf to Deaths Judgement as I want this to keep it's current level of impact, and I would have made the same comments regarding guardian as others made and you edited/amended.

    But I am pleased to see this level headed expectation of balance that doesn't call for smiters boons to classes.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Good thoughts imo, but my own thoughts:
    Soulbeast in paladins hits as truck with axe, and it needs to get toned down. If ur in paladin, u should do very little dmg.
    I think deadeye is trash spec, but binding shadows nerf is to big. Problem with this skill is with the insta burst combo with DJ, and it needs to be nerfed somehow.
    Also ranged attacks should get nerfed, both soulbeast(in this scenario its all these buffs that make it op but still), and deadeye. Deadeye auto rifle from 1500 range has similar dps to dagger autoattacks, which is just stupid. Ranged weapons should just give u slight advantage over enemies that are running in your direction, so u can win melee later, not 1 shot them.
    And my favorite topic mirage. Someone posted this idea on forum. It should not be possible to evade while stunned. U can do it only if u take trait(em), of course it would apply exhaust. Imo being able to freely dodge while stunned is 1 of the worst ideas of developers, and I'm rly not sure if they were taking pvp into consideration, while applying this kitten

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Regarding axe ambush - it had confusion on it at the beginning and this was in some ways more powerful than it is now. I'm all for reducing the torment spam, but not sure if adding back more confusion spam is appropriate here.

    Need to remember here that Confusion used to have a higher base damage back then, this was changed at the same patch as Imaginary Axes gained its Torment so that was actually a pretty hefty buff to the skill back then.

  • these are basically the things I strongly disagree with:

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    Ranger:

    • Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.

    yet again, this utility is not OP at all for non soulbeast builds, it's not even remotely viable for core or druid tbh, so why nerf it instead of nerfing soulbeast or the ability scaling on soulbeast merge

    Revenant:
    - Shackling Wave: Casting time is reduced to 0,75 seconds from 1. Additional strike damage has been reduced by 15%.

    cast time reduction not needed, it used to be too fast

    • Renewing Wave: Added skill fact: If you Blast a field with this skill, cleansed conditions are turned into boons instead.

    too situational to make any difference: you don't usually use it during team fights as power rev to blast a random field (some skirmishes mb, like when a druid cast CAF 4 on you or thief is trying to stealth you via BP) and you're not gonna start playing ventari sup just because of that.

    • Impossible Odds: Increased secondary strike damage by 20%.

    really uncalled for

    Thief:
    - Silent Scope: This trait now has a cooldown of 5 seconds.

    needs a rework, not just icd. the mechanic is not healthy for the game imo

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    Ranger:
    So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

    • Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.
    • Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.
    • Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.
    • Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.
    1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.
    2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.
    3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

    Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Regarding axe ambush - it had confusion on it at the beginning and this was in some ways more powerful than it is now. I'm all for reducing the torment spam, but not sure if adding back more confusion spam is appropriate here.

    Need to remember here that Confusion used to have a higher base damage back then, this was changed at the same patch as Imaginary Axes gained its Torment so that was actually a pretty hefty buff to the skill back then.

    Yes good point I accept that.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • AngelLovesFredrik.6741AngelLovesFredrik.6741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    Ranger:
    So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

    • Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.
    • Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.
    • Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.
    • Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.
    1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.
    2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.
    3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

    Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

    Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

    It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

    Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    I'd like to see Necro Signets get looked at, Plague Signet is good as is, but the rest are really underwhelming. I mean I hated the old Signet Necro from pre-HoT. But that's because it was such a stupid kitten build where you mainly just smashed the signets for boonrips and might. Maybe baseline signets working through shroud at reduced effectiveness as well?

    Signet of Spite
    I think it would be pretty funny if it literally did apply every single condition in the game, with durations and stacks adjusted so its not ridiculously overpowered. Even if it's adjusted to the point where it's not very dangerous in and of itself due to low enough stacks and durations, the mindgames from people seeing all the condis at the same time would be pretty fun.

    Signet of the Locust
    I dunno. Some manner of conditional Locust Swarm autocast for the passive? Maybe boon steal for the active. 25% move speed signets are the most boring thing in the game. I'd like to see all of them for all classes have the 25% MS removed and replaced with some other form of mobility.

    Signet of Undeath
    Slap Renewal of Fire's effect on the active. Make the passive 1% per second when your health is over 50% and 2% when under 50%.

    Signet of Vampirism
    Just remove the internal cooldowns.

    Apart from Signets, well, this still exists. It might as well not, but it does.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Serpent_Siphon

    But I have no clue what you would even do with it.

  • @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    Ranger:
    So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

    • Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.
    • Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.
    • Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.
    • Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.
    1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.
    2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.
    3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

    Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

    Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

    It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

    Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

    I guess it might sound fair to argue that soulbeast's burst - though pretty fast - still isn't instant and is telegraphed (unless stealth one shot), so you can react.
    The modifiers are completely nuts tho indeed: you can legit double your damage by picking one trait line + one utility. Not to mention that aside from damage you also get unblockables, reveal; then detarget evade with los verticality, cc and nuke on smokescale merge and mobility, sustain on owl for instance.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miles Smiles.8951 said:
    yet again, this utility is not OP at all for non soulbeast builds, it's not even remotely viable for core or druid tbh, so why nerf it instead of nerfing soulbeast or the ability scaling on soulbeast merge

    This is true to a degree. Problem is there's no other real way to nerf the damage from a Sic Em Sniper build. What else is there to nerf when the goal is to reduce damage? Nerfing longbow itself is a terrible option as that would affect core and druid builds more than nerfing Sic Em. Traits like Twice as Vicious or Furious Strength are marginal damage increases at best, and if Oppressive Superiority was nerfed, the build would just swap to Leader of the Pack. Having the skill split between merged and unmerged is not really a realistic thing to ask for as they did away with that for a reason. If you disagree with that, that's your right.
    Sic Em is the reason why this build over performs so we nerf Sic Em. It sucks for core or druid players that(if) want to use it but it really is IMO the best way to do it.

    cast time reduction not needed, it used to be too fast

    Which is why I didn't completely revert it. The skill feels bad to use without Quickness. I was going for a lateral change in which the damage goes down but in return it gets more fluid to use. Not a 100% necessary though.

    too situational to make any difference: you don't usually use it during team fights as power rev to blast a random field (some skirmishes mb, like when a druid cast CAF 4 on you or thief is trying to stealth you via BP) and you're not gonna start playing ventari sup just because of that.

    This was indeed not aimed at Power Shiro builds. I see some potential for using Retribution which I think this change would synergize with.

    really uncalled for

    Maybe. I'm on the fence with this one, I just see that using IO doesn't justify the energy cost currently. Maybe I'll just reduce that instead.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.

    Forage as a disengage skill seems doable. The elixirs I threw there weren't really well thought out. They were more to illustrate the intention of the change. Wholly new skills would be more work for the devs at anet whereas elixirs would probably simple enough to implement.

    1. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.

    That was aimed at the Sic Em Sniper build more than Boonbeast. See my comments above for Miles.

    1. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

    The stability nerf is more about counterplay. For example, I could see warriors competing more easily against Boonbeast if their Stability was nerfed. I might be misguided in that expectation.
    My expectation is that ANet would not remove the damage reductions from the skill in the next patch after they implement it. Which is why I touched on its duration instead.

    FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me.

    I'll get back to you on that. It's not a simple change as it's not just a question of adjustments, it would be something completely new.

    I'm probably revising the suggestion again on Monday, take some of these new ideas into consideration.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aktium.9506 said:
    Signet of Spite
    I think it would be pretty funny if it literally did apply every single condition in the game, with durations and stacks adjusted so its not ridiculously overpowered. Even if it's adjusted to the point where it's not very dangerous in and of itself due to low enough stacks and durations, the mindgames from people seeing all the condis at the same time would be pretty fun.

    I was actually looking at this when thinking about the necro changes. From a different angle though. More about clarifying what this skill is about, power or condi.

    Apart from Signets, well, this still exists. It might as well not, but it does.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Serpent_Siphon

    But I have no clue what you would even do with it.

    Same thing here, and neither do I. :lol:
    Probably delete it and make an entirely new skill.

  • @Miles Smiles.8951 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    Ranger:
    So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

    • Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.
    • Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.
    • Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.
    • Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.
    1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.
    2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.
    3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

    Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

    Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

    It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

    Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

    I guess it might sound fair to argue that soulbeast's burst - though pretty fast - still isn't instant and is telegraphed (unless stealth one shot), so you can react.
    The modifiers are completely nuts tho indeed: you can legit double your damage by picking one trait line + one utility. Not to mention that aside from damage you also get unblockables, reveal; then detarget evade with los verticality, cc and nuke on smokescale merge and mobility, sustain on owl for instance.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    So this is MY list(basically a nerf list) for what I'd like the next balance patch to include. I'm not against buffing unused aspects of the professions but honestly almost none of the classes need buffs to them at this point. With a few notable exceptions. On another note, I realize I don't know all the classes inside and out so if anything stands out to you, feel free to notify me. Be civil though. I know it's a hard ask in this particular sub-forum but do try.
    One more thing, all numeric nerfs should be considered PvP only so don't comment if this would IYO nerf your raid build as it probably wouldn't.
    I'll go in alphabetical order.


    Elementalist:
    It's hard for me to assess what S/D Weaver would need as on paper it looks alright. Maybe the only thing needed is for the competition to come down a notch. So I focused on improving the Earth traitline to create more synergies for Tempest to utilize. I had more ideas but decided to exclude them as they were a bit too large to implement within the scope of balance.

    • Blinding Ashes: This trait has been redone. Now inflicts Blind on foes you strike with a Leap Combo Finisher. Cleanse a condition from yourself whenever you Blind a foe. This trait has a 3 second internal cooldown.
    • Electric Discharge: Increased the base damage inflicted by this trait by 30%.
    • Raging Storm: Fury duration has been increased to 4 seconds from 2 s. Bonus Ferocity gained has been reduced to 150 from 250. NEW, REVISION B
    • Elemental Shielding: Increased the duration of Protection gained from 2 second to 3.
    • Earthen Blast: This trait now also inflicts 2 stacks of Bleeding for 5 seconds.
    • Rock Solid: Increased the duration of Stability gained from 2 seconds to 3.
    • Geomancer's Defense: When you have Protection on you, now also inflicts 1 stack of Bleeding for 3 seconds on foes that strike you.
    • Harmonious Conduit: Increased Stability gained from 1 stack to 2.

    Mesmer:
    I'm going to support some of @Trigr.6481 suggestions regarding these but I have things to add. Not gonna repeat them so just gonna link it here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67574/countless-pvp-mesmer-suggestions#latest What my changes boil down to is I want to remove any mass application of Torment from Mesmer, and replace it with either Bleed or Confusion. What I think Mirages biggest transgression is, is the fact that it can load you up with both Torment and Confusion which heavily punishes any action you do afterwards. While replacing Torment with Bleed/Confusion might make Mesmer do more baseline condition damage and reduce "counterplay", if you seriously consider not moving counterplay, it won't punish you as much for kiting or running away.

    • Maim the Disillusioned: 6 seconds of Torment is replaced by 6 seconds of Bleeding.
    • Illusionary Counter: 5 stacks of Torment for 8 seconds is replaced by 6 stacks of Bleeding for 6 seconds.
    • Ethereal Chop: 2 seconds of Torment is replaced by 3 seconds of Confusion.
    • Mirror Strikes: 6 seconds of Torment is replaced by 2 stacks of Confusion for 5 seconds.
    • Lingering Thoughts: 3 stacks of Torment for 4 seconds is replaced by 3 stacks of Bleeding for 4 seconds. Count recharge has been increased to 15 seconds from 10. EDIT, REVISION B
    • Ether Barrage: 2 seconds of Torment is replaced by 2 seconds of Bleeding.
    • Imaginary Axes: Each stack of Torment that would be applied for 4 seconds is now 2 seconds of Bleeding and Confusion per stack.
    • Chaos Vortex can keep its Torment for all I care, staff is the least problematic weapon of all.
      Well, that got out of control fast. :lol:
      This list is by no means comprehensive nor is it realistic thinking it's going to happen any time soon. So settle down, little monkeys!
      I'm open to adding more suggestions if I feel like they are realistic and cater to balance. Also if you think I haven't thought something through, feel free to point that out as well.

    Well, that got out of control fast. :lol:
    This list is by no means comprehensive nor is it realistic thinking it's going to happen any time soon. So settle down, little monkeys!
    I'm open to adding more suggestions if I feel like they are realistic and cater to balance. Also if you think I haven't thought something through, feel free to point that out as well.

    OK so I'll just talk about ele and mesmer as those I play more than others and know much better.

    Ele:
    Blinding Ashes - This isn't a good change, core abilities have barely any leap finishes, buff to weaver but nerf to core drastically. Please no.
    Electric Discharge - The problem with this skill was always it's instant damage nature that has 0 counterplay. Yeah it sucks it was nerfed but I'd rather see the skill changed.
    Raging Storm - It's already fine as is, arguably too strong for a minor, I'd reduce it to just giving fury and increase it to 3s.
    Elemental Shielding - I think after the boon duration nerfs it could go back to 3s now.
    Earthen Blast - It's a minor so I don't really think it's that big a deal. I would leave as it, it's simple and true to core values.
    Rock Solid - Agreed 3s would actually allow it to be useful, I can think of a bit of a meme build with perma stab though.
    Geomancer's Defence - It's a minor, stop trying to make minors do as much as major traits. Fine as is.
    Harmonious Conduit - I think a better avenue is to increase cool downs on CC that have progressively been lowered and reduce stability that's been increased in access since expansions tbh.

    Mesmer:
    Maim The Disillusioned - I don't see this trait as being too problematic in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't change especially if changing all torment on mirage.
    Illusionary Counter: Not addressing 6s CD? Needs to be 8s. Bleeds change is fine though, I'd say 5 for 8s though, bleeds are meant to be long duration but weak.
    Ethereal Chop: Confusion is a bad idea, it's a really really bad idea on auto. People already have issues playing around it on select skills. No. Make it bleed or poison if you have to.
    Mirror Strikes: See above.
    Lingering Thoughts: Bleeds are weak but last a long time, the bleed duration should be 6-8s. Count recharge at 15s is out of line with even core values which would be 10s.
    Ether Barrage: 2s of bleed is questionable, bring it up to 3s.
    Imaginary Axes: Really? Confusion? Really? Switch it to 1 stack of bleed per axe for 6s. Also get rid of the extra axe from Mirrored Axes? No-one thought maybe this is too strong a trait giving -20% CD AND a 25-50% buff to most axe skills?
    Chaos Vortex: Yeah I agree it's easily side stepped. I would implement the changes above first then revise it, maybe reducing the duration of the conditions a little.

    I don't agree with half of them, especially adding confusion to mirage attacks, many already have problems dealing with confusion despite it having plenty of counterplay. All in all straight up swapping torment for bleeding across all mirage weapons and skills is the first thing I would do and then evaluate from there before changing maim the disillusioned.

    Ele doesn't need buffs at all, what it needs is the power creep from classes like holo, firebrand, soulbeast reducing and rev's easy might stacking to be dealt with so it's not killing them in seconds. Ele has really good builds in weaver that just aren't competitive either because everyone has too much stab, does too much damage or has really high uptime of defence.

    If I had to suggest 2 buffs for ele I'd say increase the duration of the water field on steam surge to 4s and then reduce Ashen Blasts radius to 240 but make it a PBAoE while cleaning up the aftercasts a tad.

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    @Aktium.9506 said:
    Signet of Spite
    I think it would be pretty funny if it literally did apply every single condition in the game, with durations and stacks adjusted so its not ridiculously overpowered. Even if it's adjusted to the point where it's not very dangerous in and of itself due to low enough stacks and durations, the mindgames from people seeing all the condis at the same time would be pretty fun.

    I was actually looking at this when thinking about the necro changes. From a different angle though. More about clarifying what this skill is about, power or condi.

    Now that you mention it, maybe go the hybridization route and make it give 90 Power, 90 Condition Damage so that it's more clear that it's meant for builds of both damage types.

  • @Yannir.4132 said:

    @Miles Smiles.8951 said:
    yet again, this utility is not OP at all for non soulbeast builds, it's not even remotely viable for core or druid tbh, so why nerf it instead of nerfing soulbeast or the ability scaling on soulbeast merge

    This is true to a degree. Problem is there's no other real way to nerf the damage from a Sic Em Sniper build. What else is there to nerf when the goal is to reduce damage?

    well, they did split the damage modifier on Attack of Opportunity after Maul (GS2) between merged and unmerged (pet attack), didn't they? why not do the same to Sic Em?

    really uncalled for

    Maybe. I'm on the fence with this one, I just see that using IO doesn't justify the energy cost currently. Maybe I'll just reduce that instead.

    IO is insane, you basically just activate it with your multi hitting skills then turn it off.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    IO should be changed to its pve counterpart of -6 energy rather than -8 in pvp.

  • @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Miles Smiles.8951 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    Ranger:
    So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

    • Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.
    • Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.
    • Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.
    • Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.
    1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.
    2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.
    3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

    Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

    Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

    It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

    Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

    I guess it might sound fair to argue that soulbeast's burst - though pretty fast - still isn't instant and is telegraphed (unless stealth one shot), so you can react.
    The modifiers are completely nuts tho indeed: you can legit double your damage by picking one trait line + one utility. Not to mention that aside from damage you also get unblockables, reveal; then detarget evade with los verticality, cc and nuke on smokescale merge and mobility, sustain on owl for instance.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz

    yeah, I mentioned stealth. this is why you random dodge, core guard's burst often needs to be random dodged as well. same as fresh air burst and some other specs too

  • AngelLovesFredrik.6741AngelLovesFredrik.6741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    @Miles Smiles.8951 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Miles Smiles.8951 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    Ranger:
    So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

    • Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.
    • Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.
    • Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.
    • Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.
    1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.
    2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.
    3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

    Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

    Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

    It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

    Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

    I guess it might sound fair to argue that soulbeast's burst - though pretty fast - still isn't instant and is telegraphed (unless stealth one shot), so you can react.
    The modifiers are completely nuts tho indeed: you can legit double your damage by picking one trait line + one utility. Not to mention that aside from damage you also get unblockables, reveal; then detarget evade with los verticality, cc and nuke on smokescale merge and mobility, sustain on owl for instance.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz

    yeah, I mentioned stealth. this is why you random dodge, core guard's burst often needs to be random dodged as well. same as fresh air burst and some other specs too

    Core guard and rev has very obvious tells, unless casting behind a wall. But both of them suffer in that they are melee based, the prior doesn't even have any form of disengage.

    This damage was also done by Earth runes + dolyak on his bar. Which is borderline insane.

    Edit; if you can't react to a 4 second wind up ability, you deserve to die.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • From a rev perspective, I think your suggestions are pretty reasonable. I especially like the Renewing Wave and Hardening Persistence suggestions.

    It's also good to see mostly nerfs except for weaver.

    good lord i am absolute trash at this video game

  • @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Miles Smiles.8951 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Miles Smiles.8951 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    Ranger:
    So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

    • Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.
    • Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.
    • Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.
    • Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.
    1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.
    2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.
    3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

    Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

    Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

    It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

    Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

    I guess it might sound fair to argue that soulbeast's burst - though pretty fast - still isn't instant and is telegraphed (unless stealth one shot), so you can react.
    The modifiers are completely nuts tho indeed: you can legit double your damage by picking one trait line + one utility. Not to mention that aside from damage you also get unblockables, reveal; then detarget evade with los verticality, cc and nuke on smokescale merge and mobility, sustain on owl for instance.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz

    yeah, I mentioned stealth. this is why you random dodge, core guard's burst often needs to be random dodged as well. same as fresh air burst and some other specs too

    Core guard and rev has very obvious tells, unless casting behind a wall. But both of them suffer in that they are melee based, the prior doesn't even have any form of disengage.

    Edit; if you can't react to a 4 second wind up ability, you deserve to die.

    Yes, I agree, but in conquest there are lots of opportunities to LoS before focus 5 + JI or be otherwise sneaky with it. Everyone knows it but people still get hit by it a lot even on higher tiers or am I wrong? And if you weapon swap into agility hammer 2 or GS 2 + JI it is faster than quickness rapid fire.

    This damage was also done by Earth runes + dolyak on his bar. Which is borderline insane.

    Yep, like I said, the modifiers are insane alongside the extra stats you get when merging with power pet with Beastmastery line equipped (400 ferocity, 350 power, 150 precision/toughness/vitality)

  • @Miles Smiles.8951 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Miles Smiles.8951 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Miles Smiles.8951 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    Ranger:
    So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

    • Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.
    • Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.
    • Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.
    • Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.
    1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.
    2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.
    3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

    Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

    Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

    It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

    Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

    I guess it might sound fair to argue that soulbeast's burst - though pretty fast - still isn't instant and is telegraphed (unless stealth one shot), so you can react.
    The modifiers are completely nuts tho indeed: you can legit double your damage by picking one trait line + one utility. Not to mention that aside from damage you also get unblockables, reveal; then detarget evade with los verticality, cc and nuke on smokescale merge and mobility, sustain on owl for instance.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz

    yeah, I mentioned stealth. this is why you random dodge, core guard's burst often needs to be random dodged as well. same as fresh air burst and some other specs too

    Core guard and rev has very obvious tells, unless casting behind a wall. But both of them suffer in that they are melee based, the prior doesn't even have any form of disengage.

    Edit; if you can't react to a 4 second wind up ability, you deserve to die.

    Yes, I agree, but in conquest there are lots of opportunities to LoS before focus 5 + JI or be otherwise sneaky with it. Everyone knows it but people still get hit by it a lot even on higher tiers or am I wrong? And if you weapon swap into agility hammer 2 or GS 2 + JI it is faster than quickness rapid fire.

    This damage was also done by Earth runes + dolyak on his bar. Which is borderline insane.

    Yep, like I said, the modifiers are insane alongside the extra stats you get when merging with power pet with Beastmastery line equipped (400 ferocity, 350 power, 150 precision/toughness/vitality)

    You need to be in combat already for agility to work though, so the sneaking up isn't really a thing. I don't know why I'm arguing though, considering we're in an agreement. ^_^

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    So this is MY list(basically a nerf list) for what I'd like the next balance patch to include. I'm not against buffing unused aspects of the professions but honestly almost none of the classes need buffs to them at this point. With a few notable exceptions. On another note, I realize I don't know all the classes inside and out so if anything stands out to you, feel free to notify me. Be civil though. I know it's a hard ask in this particular sub-forum but do try.
    One more thing, all numeric nerfs should be considered PvP only so don't comment if this would IYO nerf your raid build as it probably wouldn't.
    I'll go in alphabetical order.


    Elementalist:
    It's hard for me to assess what S/D Weaver would need as on paper it looks alright. Maybe the only thing needed is for the competition to come down a notch. So I focused on improving the Earth traitline to create more synergies for Tempest to utilize. I had more ideas but decided to exclude them as they were a bit too large to implement within the scope of balance.

    • Blinding Ashes: This trait has been redone. Now inflicts Blind on foes you strike with a Leap Combo Finisher. Cleanse a condition from yourself whenever you Blind a foe. This trait has a 3 second internal cooldown.
    • Electric Discharge: Increased the base damage inflicted by this trait by 30%.
    • Raging Storm: Fury duration has been increased to 4 seconds from 2 s. Bonus Ferocity gained has been reduced to 150 from 250. NEW, REVISION B
    • Elemental Shielding: Increased the duration of Protection gained from 2 second to 3.
    • Earthen Blast: This trait now also inflicts 2 stacks of Bleeding for 5 seconds.
    • Rock Solid: Increased the duration of Stability gained from 2 seconds to 3.
    • Geomancer's Defense: When you have Protection on you, now also inflicts 1 stack of Bleeding for 3 seconds on foes that strike you.
    • Harmonious Conduit: Increased Stability gained from 1 stack to 2.

    Mesmer:
    I'm going to support some of @Trigr.6481 suggestions regarding these but I have things to add. Not gonna repeat them so just gonna link it here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67574/countless-pvp-mesmer-suggestions#latest What my changes boil down to is I want to remove any mass application of Torment from Mesmer, and replace it with either Bleed or Confusion. What I think Mirages biggest transgression is, is the fact that it can load you up with both Torment and Confusion which heavily punishes any action you do afterwards. While replacing Torment with Bleed/Confusion might make Mesmer do more baseline condition damage and reduce "counterplay", if you seriously consider not moving counterplay, it won't punish you as much for kiting or running away.

    • Maim the Disillusioned: 6 seconds of Torment is replaced by 6 seconds of Bleeding.
    • Illusionary Counter: 5 stacks of Torment for 8 seconds is replaced by 6 stacks of Bleeding for 6 seconds.
    • Ethereal Chop: 2 seconds of Torment is replaced by 3 seconds of Confusion.
    • Mirror Strikes: 6 seconds of Torment is replaced by 2 stacks of Confusion for 5 seconds.
    • Lingering Thoughts: 3 stacks of Torment for 4 seconds is replaced by 3 stacks of Bleeding for 4 seconds. Count recharge has been increased to 15 seconds from 10. EDIT, REVISION B
    • Ether Barrage: 2 seconds of Torment is replaced by 2 seconds of Bleeding.
    • Imaginary Axes: Each stack of Torment that would be applied for 4 seconds is now 2 seconds of Bleeding and Confusion per stack.
    • Chaos Vortex can keep its Torment for all I care, staff is the least problematic weapon of all.
      Well, that got out of control fast. :lol:
      This list is by no means comprehensive nor is it realistic thinking it's going to happen any time soon. So settle down, little monkeys!
      I'm open to adding more suggestions if I feel like they are realistic and cater to balance. Also if you think I haven't thought something through, feel free to point that out as well.

    Well, that got out of control fast. :lol:
    This list is by no means comprehensive nor is it realistic thinking it's going to happen any time soon. So settle down, little monkeys!
    I'm open to adding more suggestions if I feel like they are realistic and cater to balance. Also if you think I haven't thought something through, feel free to point that out as well.

    OK so I'll just talk about ele and mesmer as those I play more than others and know much better.

    Ele:
    Blinding Ashes - This isn't a good change, core abilities have barely any leap finishes, buff to weaver but nerf to core drastically. Please no.
    Electric Discharge - The problem with this skill was always it's instant damage nature that has 0 counterplay. Yeah it sucks it was nerfed but I'd rather see the skill changed.
    Raging Storm - It's already fine as is, arguably too strong for a minor, I'd reduce it to just giving fury and increase it to 3s.
    Elemental Shielding - I think after the boon duration nerfs it could go back to 3s now.
    Earthen Blast - It's a minor so I don't really think it's that big a deal. I would leave as it, it's simple and true to core values.
    Rock Solid - Agreed 3s would actually allow it to be useful, I can think of a bit of a meme build with perma stab though.
    Geomancer's Defence - It's a minor, stop trying to make minors do as much as major traits. Fine as is.
    Harmonious Conduit - I think a better avenue is to increase cool downs on CC that have progressively been lowered and reduce stability that's been increased in access since expansions tbh.

    Mesmer:
    Maim The Disillusioned - I don't see this trait as being too problematic in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't change especially if changing all torment on mirage.
    Illusionary Counter: Not addressing 6s CD? Needs to be 8s. Bleeds change is fine though, I'd say 5 for 8s though, bleeds are meant to be long duration but weak.
    Ethereal Chop: Confusion is a bad idea, it's a really really bad idea on auto. People already have issues playing around it on select skills. No. Make it bleed or poison if you have to.
    Mirror Strikes: See above.
    Lingering Thoughts: Bleeds are weak but last a long time, the bleed duration should be 6-8s. Count recharge at 15s is out of line with even core values which would be 10s.
    Ether Barrage: 2s of bleed is questionable, bring it up to 3s.
    Imaginary Axes: Really? Confusion? Really? Switch it to 1 stack of bleed per axe for 6s. Also get rid of the extra axe from Mirrored Axes? No-one thought maybe this is too strong a trait giving -20% CD AND a 25-50% buff to most axe skills?
    Chaos Vortex: Yeah I agree it's easily side stepped. I would implement the changes above first then revise it, maybe reducing the duration of the conditions a little.

    I don't agree with half of them, especially adding confusion to mirage attacks, many already have problems dealing with confusion despite it having plenty of counterplay. All in all straight up swapping torment for bleeding across all mirage weapons and skills is the first thing I would do and then evaluate from there before changing maim the disillusioned.

    Ele doesn't need buffs at all, what it needs is the power creep from classes like holo, firebrand, soulbeast reducing and rev's easy might stacking to be dealt with so it's not killing them in seconds. Ele has really good builds in weaver that just aren't competitive either because everyone has too much stab, does too much damage or has really high uptime of defence.

    If I had to suggest 2 buffs for ele I'd say increase the duration of the water field on steam surge to 4s and then reduce Ashen Blasts radius to 240 but make it a PBAoE while cleaning up the aftercasts a tad.

    Core guardian damage is now over the roof and core warrior dmg is not far off, a bull's charge can hit an ele for 8k while warrior has demolisher amulet, of all the classes that currently oppress the ele....ranger-rev and holo are the less offenders with warrior, guardian, thief and necro being the main culprits.

    You can hold a holo at bay even with a tempest...a core guardian can crit you for 8k+ dmg out of nowhere and it has the sustain of a bruiser despite being a burst build, the herald is a +1 at most and it's quite weak to condi dmg of which ele has got plenty to offer.

    Ha I think you're talking about s/d .everything else doesn't hold a candle to guardian, warrior and necro:

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Ranger- sic em and stance toned down

    Necro- mobility increased via worm insta tele.slightly.scourge Condi spam dealt with,not sure how.

    Thief- back stab damage reduced,stealth duration reduced or stealth on dodge changed.small over all damage buffs on core/dd weapon skills.

    Holo- reduction in sustain and slight nurf to cc

    Mirage- reduction in amount of Condi’s They can inflict in such little time.the ability to attack while evading should have some drawback even if it is a spec mechanic.

    Guard- dh bow improved.ally restriction removed from MI

    Ele- buffed to once again exist

    Warrior-never played so cant comment.

  • Mirage

    • Change Mirage Cloak to not be able to evade while immobilized or CCd if not traited to do so.
    • Exchange Desert Distortion and Dune Cloak in the traitline so that Desert Distortion becomes a grandmaster trait. Change Dune Cloak (possibly) to remove a condition when Mirage Cloak is applied (or when you evade, still to be determined).
    • Change Elusive Mind to make it a CC break stun only, removing the condition management. Reduce Exhaustion gained to 4 seconds.
    • Make Detargetting skills counterrable with Revealed.
      These suggestions would affect only how Mirage can chain damage mitigation, and would improve usual quality of life by not pairing performing traits with other performing traits.

    You could still per say evade when CCd if you teleport to your Mirror, but would allow more general counterplay.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Blinding Ashes - This isn't a good change, core abilities have barely any leap finishes, buff to weaver but nerf to core drastically. Please no.

    That's what I get for not double-checking. Totally remembered that Burning Speed and Burning Retreat were Leaps. They are not.
    What I want to do here is give the player more control over when this trait procs instead of it proccing from a random Burn. I'll revise the idea to make it better for core.

    Electric Discharge - The problem with this skill was always it's instant damage nature that has 0 counterplay. Yeah it sucks it was nerfed but I'd rather see the skill changed.

    This could be made into a projectile to give it more counterplay chances.

    Earthen Blast - It's a minor so I don't really think it's that big a deal. I would leave as it, it's simple and true to core values.

    Yes but it's a pretty pathetic minor when you compare it to Elemental Attunement, Sunspot, Healing Ripple or Electric Discharge, which are all in the same tier of traits.

    Geomancer's Defence - It's a minor, stop trying to make minors do as much as major traits. Fine as is.

    I'm pushing the Earth traitline because it doesn't do enough IMO. So I'm infusing it with something that it already has, which is synergy with Bleeding.
    The changes I mentioned leaving out of the OP have to do with a re-shuffling of the GM traits. I was going to merge Stone Heart and Diamond Skin into a single GM trait that's neither directly but catches the idea of both. Although I'm not even sure Earth needs to have an anti-condition trait at all.
    The open slot would have space for a GM that is more offensively oriented. I don't exactly know what that is which is why I left the suggestion out.

    Harmonious Conduit - I think a better avenue is to increase cool downs on CC that have progressively been lowered and reduce stability that's been increased in access since expansions tbh.

    Sure. But doing that doesn't change the fact that this trait was too weak from the start. What is probably the most common class/weapon combination to try and interrupt your Overload? It's a D/P Thief with their Headshot, a skill which is still exactly the same as the day the game launched. Having 2 stacks of Stability means that the thief would have to use more resources to interrupt you if their Steal is on cd.

    Maim The Disillusioned - I don't see this trait as being too problematic in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't change especially if changing all torment on mirage.

    Sure. We can leave the current implementation in. It wasn't a problem before Mirage.

    Illusionary Counter: Not addressing 6s CD? Needs to be 8s. Bleeds change is fine though, I'd say 5 for 8s though, bleeds are meant to be long duration but weak.

    Sure, let's change that cd.

    Ethereal Chop: Confusion is a bad idea, it's a really really bad idea on auto. People already have issues playing around it on select skills. No. Make it bleed or poison if you have to.
    Mirror Strikes: See above.

    Yeah, that wasn't thought through well enough. Confusion on auto is a pretty bad idea.

    Lingering Thoughts: Bleeds are weak but last a long time, the bleed duration should be 6-8s. Count recharge at 15s is out of line with even core values which would be 10s.

    Well, it's either that, or we remove the ammo and lower the cd a bit. It's doing too much currently.

    Imaginary Axes: Really? Confusion? Really? Switch it to 1 stack of bleed per axe for 6s. Also get rid of the extra axe from Mirrored Axes? No-one thought maybe this is too strong a trait giving -20% CD AND a 25-50% buff to most axe skills?

    Confusion isn't too bad when Torment is absent. It's the combination of those 2 that people have issues with, not either one separately.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    That's what I get for not double-checking. Totally remembered that Burning Speed and Burning Retreat were Leaps. They are not.
    What I want to do here is give the player more control over when this trait procs instead of it proccing from a random Burn. I'll revise the idea to make it better for core.

    This could be made into a projectile to give it more counterplay chances.

    Yes but it's a pretty pathetic minor when you compare it to Elemental Attunement, Sunspot, Healing Ripple or Electric Discharge, which are all in the same tier of traits.

    I'm pushing the Earth traitline because it doesn't do enough IMO. So I'm infusing it with something that it already has, which is synergy with Bleeding.
    The changes I mentioned leaving out of the OP have to do with a re-shuffling of the GM traits. I was going to merge Stone Heart and Diamond Skin into a single GM trait that's neither directly but catches the idea of both. Although I'm not even sure Earth needs to have an anti-condition trait at all.
    The open slot would have space for a GM that is more offensively oriented. I don't exactly know what that is which is why I left the suggestion out.

    Sure. But doing that doesn't change the fact that this trait was too weak from the start. What is probably the most common class/weapon combination to try and interrupt your Overload? It's a D/P Thief with their Headshot, a skill which is still exactly the same as the day the game launched. Having 2 stacks of Stability means that the thief would have to use more resources to interrupt you if their Steal is on cd.

    Sure. We can leave the current implementation in. It wasn't a problem before Mirage.

    Sure, let's change that cd.

    Yeah, that wasn't thought through well enough. Confusion on auto is a pretty bad idea.

    Well, it's either that, or we remove the ammo and lower the cd a bit. It's doing too much currently.

    Confusion isn't too bad when Torment is absent. It's the combination of those 2 that people have issues with, not either one separately.

    I can respect wanting more control over the blind for weaver but it's very manageable on core/tempest so I'd leave as is on blinding ashes tbh.

    I was thinking electric discharge could be like PI is tbh.

    Damage and cripple is more or less similar to sunspot, I'd maybe increase the targets to 5 and an argument can be made for 4s cripple but it's not needed imo. -10% damage taken on geomancers defence is quite nice, as I say it's a minor and it adds up nicely with prot. I do agree that earth as a trait line is rather lacking but I think it's an issue with the major traits tbh. I'd personally rather see serrated stones lose it's 5% damage mod and say you take less damage from bleeding targets 5-10%.

    Harmonious Conduit is always going to be awkward, it's a damage buff in a support spec, I think removing the damage buff would be in order then maybe have the extra stack of stab. At the same time though being 1 stack means it has counterplay, use a CC then another, yes it's weak to DP thief but builds need weakness. I know there's a lot of builds out there without clear weaknesses anymore but still I'd rather we step off the gas everywhere else and see.

    I'd be fine with removing the ammo from lingering thoughts tbh but I think ANet want it to be a PvE DPS spec so it needs it to get the clones out fast enough. Unilaterally I think switching torment to bleeds across the mirage skills is probably enough to sort out mirage and it's a pretty big change to get a handle on so see how it goes and add in confusion on some skills later and look at lingering thoughts.

    Watch as ANet bring out a balance patch tomorrow and it halves torment duration on maim the disillusioned, touches the axe ambush by -1s on all the torment for PvP only and then nerfs mirage defences all over xD

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:
    I'd personally rather see serrated stones lose it's 5% damage mod and say you take less damage from bleeding targets 5-10%.

    I wouldn't do that. On Necromancer that trait is called Putrid Defense and it's arguably the worst major trait on the class.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    I'd personally rather see serrated stones lose it's 5% damage mod and say you take less damage from bleeding targets 5-10%.

    I wouldn't do that. On Necromancer that trait is called Putrid Defense and it's arguably the worst major trait on the class.

    Yeah but they don't have permanent protection and stone heart to reduce damage down to 500-1000 from even the strongest DPS classes :D

    It's more fitting than a 5% damage mod tbh, earth is a defence and condition line, why does it have a power mod in it? I don't mind what it becomes I don't see 5% damage to bleeding foes as conducive with the theme of the line.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    New revision. Marked as REVISION C
    Changes from the previous revision are mainly in the Mesmer and Ranger sections.

    @Arcaedus.7290 said:
    I'd like to clarify though: If your goal was to nerf damage wholesale for every single class, I'd totally approve of whirling wrath returning to what it was 2 years ago, and MB getting a hefty nerf to the point of only critting 4-5.5k max. It seems though you're trying to cast a wide net here with changes to every class which is GREAT to see, but it looks like you're trying to do minimal work to balance the outliers in our current meta. At least that's what I assumed when I said I'd be opposed to those two damage nerfs.

    Just saw this now.
    Yes, that's exactly what I'm going for. I may have missed some of the offenders initially but I'm hoping to catch most of them by the time I'm done with this.
    I'm going to leave the Core Guard changes as they currently are until someone convinces me otherwise. I think nerfing RI to 33% will either force a glassier amulet or the build becomes much more unreliable. GS will suffer less from this than Hammer though because multihits give more opportunity for crits.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Revert phantasms - phantasm now count to the 3 limit illusions and can be shattered. All phantasms animations and skills reverted.
    The torment to bleed sounds good but seeing as bleed is more of an ramp up condi you either will give more bleeds for torments or more uptime.
    Mirage cloak no longer allows to evade while cced.
    EM - exhaustion removed, stunbreak removed, now cleanse 1 condi and one mic.
    IH - baseline, rework all ambushes taking this into account. Reason being ambushes are either bad or strong depending if IH is present on build.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    The torment to bleed sounds good but seeing as bleed is more of an ramp up condi you either will give more bleeds for torments or more uptime.

    That seems to be a common misconception. 1 for 1, Bleeding does more damage than Torment does if you stand still but Torment does more damage if you move. Some skills could get some more Bleeding duration like the auto chain. We shouldn't aim to match either end of Torments damage variance but aim for it to land somewhere in the middle. But I think the first step here should be to swap them with a 1 to 1 ratio, and see what happens. Then adjust as necessary.

    For PvE you could aim more to the top end, the numbers here represent only PvP.

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