Soulbeast Feedback - Beast Abilities — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Soulbeast Feedback - Beast Abilities

ProtoMarcus.7649ProtoMarcus.7649 Member ✭✭✭
edited October 6, 2017 in Ranger

Following my one week later feedback thread for the Soulbeast Dagger, here's my commentary on the current iteration of the Soulbeast Beastmode [F3] Beast Abilities

SOULBEAST FEEDBACK - BEAST ABILITIES

The Beastmode Beast abilities are currently pretty interesting as they perfectly fit their archetype - only issue is responsiveness of the beast ability traits and some cast time and numbers. I believe they are in a good spot but a little tweak can put them in an optimal position.

Trait interaction

I strongly believe all beast ability traits should have their effects applied at the start of the cast and not at the end, like it currently works on the pets - if the pet is interrupted, the unique ability is interrupted and the trait effect goes on cooldown as it was activated - simply do the exact same for the Soulbeast

The reason behind this is that some cast times are rather lengthy, and it would add better synergy to some of the Skill vs Trait combos - Beastly Warden followed by Worldly Impact would force the enemy to the player to succesfully land the impact, or even Invigorating Bond proc'ing just before the 1s cast time Spiritual Reprieve, or yet again Go for the Eyes denying the enemy an interrupt while castin a beast skill due to blindness.

Special Mention: LIVE FAST

For starters, this trait only works in Beastmode - out of Beastmode, it doesn't apply boons to the ranger, nor to the pet. I suspect most players expect the boons to be applied to the ranger when out of Beastmode due to the tooltip description, but I believe it should behave differently, but also with a reworked tooltip (I know most people won't support this idea but wait for the reasoning)

SUGGESTION:

  • Change description to "Beast abilities grant fury and quickness to the caster"
  • Add a 12s cooldown
  • Make it so it actually behaves like the reworked description >> in Beastmode, it behaves exactly as it does right now. But out of beastmode, the pet will receive the boons when it casts it's F2 - The main thing here is that the quickness bug absolutely has to be fixed on pets.

The reasoning behind this is well, to make it work with pets when out of beast mode. Before you all go crazy about the suggested cooldown, know that in effect, it already has that cooldown - You can get out of beastmode after 2s of entering it, and re-entering beastmode takes 10s, so technically, there is a 12s cooldown already. It's also in line with Go For the Eyes 12s cooldown. Remember you can also still access part of those boons when running We Heal as One. Like other beast ability trait, it should also be activated at the start of a beast ability cast - the fury gained from it would greatly enhance Worldly Impact in remorseless builds, and the quickness being applied at the start of the cast would help at casting the beast skill faster.

Now let's move on to the skills themselves


Deadly Archetype - PRIMAL CRY

The condition beast ability.

Power scaling is good as it is not power focused, the cooldown is acceptable, but it could use a little boost not in stack numbers (as they feel good) but in condition duration numbers, and for some reason, the underwater version has a super lengthy 2.5s cast time - normalise that cast time to the land version.

SUGGESTION:

  • Augment base condition duration of both vulnerability and bleeding from 6s to 8s (33% increase)
  • Augment bleed stacks per pulse from 1 stack to 2 stacks
  • Normalise the underwater cast time to the land version, from 2.25s to 1s

The reasoning behind this is that it is a rather lengthy cooldown for a base 6s duration, and the skill itself applies conditions per pulse, so enemies can evade or move out of his effective area rather easily (this is mainly from a PvP/WvW perspective.) For the underwater cast time, it is simply because 2.25s takes FOREVER to cast. Enemy players have time to swim away from you.


Ferocious Archetype - WORLDY IMPACT

The power beast ability.

This skill feels extremely rewarding when it lands - paired with specific traits and effects, it can be pretty deadly. In terms of numbers, they are perfect. Solid damage, adequate cooldown. The ONLY thing I see popping in terms of feedback for this skill, is the finisher type

SUGGESTION:

  • Change the leap finisher to a blast finisher
  • Lower the activation time from 1s to 0.75s

The reasoning behind this is that we already have a lot of access to leaps in Beastmode, and leaps are selfish finishers - changing the finisher to a blast finisher would add more utility to the skill - combo'ing itself with Smokescale's Smoke Cloud for AoE Stealth for example, or combo'ing with Healing Spring for AoE Heal, etc. Also, a blast finisher on 25s cooldown sounds more than fair.


Versatile Archetype - PRELUDE LASH

The crowd control beast ability.

This one is in a good spot. Little damage but it's role is pulling enemies to you, not damaging them. The extra 2s of immobilize is a nice touch and the range is not underwhelming.

SUGGESTION:

  • None

Stoic Archetype - UNFLINCHING FORTITUDE

The damage mitigation beast ability.

This one is also in a good spot - 35s cooldown for a 4s immune to direct damage skill? Absolutely! Oh wait, you say there's more to this skill? It's a stun breaker? Nice! Wait, still more? Renders you immune to soft crowd control skills? Just perfect. Just for clarification (as some people were confused) - the stun break aspect is instant, the 0.25s activation is for the stance itself. It is a solid Get The Flip Out of here skill - excellent synergy with Beastly Warden if you wanna tank a bit of a tank role.

SUGGESTION:

  • None

Supportive Archetype - SPIRITUAL REPRIEVE

The healing beast ability.

I love it. The healing base value is amazing, the 3s of resistance is excellent to mitigate some conditions and let's not forget that it synergizes with the achetype itself - On 0 healing power, the healing is effectively 5293 thanks to the 25% healing efficiency bonus. That's a solid burst heal. Paired with Invigorating Bond, it makes for a solid extra burst heal for yourself and allies.

SUGGESTION:

  • Lower activation time from 1.5s to 1s

The reasoning behind this is that in a condition-heavy meta, relying on this skill to get a reprieve from conditions still means you have 1.5s of condition ticks before it kicks in. It would also seem that the animation of the skill plays about 0.4s earlier than the actual heal, perhaps fix that? Gives a false graphical tell, it's a bit confusing. The range, cooldown, healing value and healing coefficient are ace.

Special Mention: MOA FAMILY & archetypes

The moa family offers a skill that grants AoE healing to you and allies, and despite the moa being a support-oriented pet, none of its 4 family members are categorised as supportive, which is really counterintuitive when you think one of its skills is a healing skill. I'd heavily suggest moving the White Moa to the Supportive Category so that harmonic cry can benefit from the bonus 25% healing efficiency. I won't start extensive pet review, that's for its own thread (keep your eye open)


How do you think the melded Beast abilities should behave? Do you think they fit their category well enough? I'm curious to hear your comments.

See also:

Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

Comments

  • Great summary,
    I just wanted to add that "LIVE FAST" should also be applied at the start of the cast, like you suggested for the other beast skill traits. With the suggested ICD , it cannot be abused by skill canceling. This will answer some of issues we have with the soulbeast F3 skills(long cast time, remorseless synergy etc..)

    Also, some of beast skill traits ATM got separate ICD in and out of beast mode. I'm not sure it's intended but I think it's great, giving more incentives to go in and out of beastmode and managing your game play to be less clunky(You know you will get the traits working for sure when you will use the F3).

  • @LughLongArm.5460 said:
    Great summary,
    I just wanted to add that "LIVE FAST" should also be applied at the start of the cast, like you suggested for the other beast skill traits. With the suggested ICD , it cannot be abused by skill canceling. This will answer some of issues we have with the soulbeast F3 skills(long cast time, remorseless synergy etc..)

    Also, some of beast skill traits ATM got separate ICD in and out of beast mode. I'm not sure it's intended but I think it's great, giving more incentives to go in and out of beastmode and managing your game play to be less clunky(You know you will get the traits working for sure when you will use the F3).

    Thanks, I should probably clarify my post - I also definitely want Live Fast to be activated at the beginning of the skill cast and not at the end - like you mentionned, it would greatly help casting the skill itself much faster, as most have lengthy cast times, and fury would'd definitely give a good damage boost to Worldy Impact with remorseless builds

    And yes, it seems the beastmode beast ability traits work on different ICDs than the pets, and I also find it pretty good! Not sure if they'll keep it that way but I'm sure they can find balance

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It'd be nice if swoop was actually 900-1200 instead of the pathetic 400 range it is.

  • ProtoMarcus.7649ProtoMarcus.7649 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2017

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    It'd be nice if swoop was actually 900-1200 instead of the pathetic 400 range it is.

    Also working on a pet skill commentary, gonna be a different thread - going through all 36 skills, whew!
    But I agree, I think 900 range is a sweet spot - on 10s, it's comparable to Greatsword's Swoop which is 1000 range on 12s CD (but also an evade)
    EDIT - Changed the original post and title to Beast Abilities not to confuse with the melded F1-F2 pet skills

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • I get the faster underwater activation of Primal Cry, but I'm surprised by only a 2s duration increase suggestion of the conditions. A 20s cooldown isn't bad, but the thing most players noted was - for a Beast ability representing an archetype - it didn't have nearly enough pay off.

    I'd rather see a reduction of vulnerability for an increase of bleeding for an even 2 stacks of Bleed & Vulnerability per pulse.

    PET PRECISION & DPS DATA (DPS outdated)
    Back in Black... Desert Online.

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    Also have the taunt from beastly warden start at the beginning of the cast of a beast ability not the end.

  • Sedlina.1097Sedlina.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @ProtoMarcus.7649 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    It'd be nice if swoop was actually 900-1200 instead of the pathetic 400 range it is.

    Also working on a pet skill commentary, gonna be a different thread - going through all 36 skills, whew!
    But I agree, I think 900 range is a sweet spot - on 10s, it's comparable to Greatsword's Swoop which is 1000 range on 12s CD (but also an evade)
    EDIT - Changed the original post and title to Beast Abilities not to confuse with the melded F1-F2 pet skills

    I wouldn't bother with a F1 and F2 list. At least not yet. It is plain obvious that those got a cut for 'some core functionality' to cut a timing corner for the PoF release.
    They obviouisly need a number tuning, But before that they need to at least provide the basic listed functionality.
    Half of my bugged non functional bug report list is filled with F1 and F2 abilities not doing what their tooltips suggest.

    Not to mention that there is still hope that the animations for those abilities are just placeholders. (a silly hope i know)

  • @Eleazar.9478 said:
    Also have the taunt from beastly warden start at the beginning of the cast of a beast ability not the end.

    Yes, all beast ability traits should activate at the start

    Beastly Warden is no exception - popping Worldly Impact or Primal Cry while the enemy is on you, or even tanking with Unflinching Fortitude, the synergy would be amazing

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • Dojo.1867Dojo.1867 Member ✭✭

    I don't think your suggestion makes Primal Cry good enough. All the other ones are fine as they are imo (and powerful) but this one really lacks behind.

    As it is clearly supposed to complement condi specs I suggest making it pulse 3 bleed (as it does now) but also 3 poison (instead of the vulnerability). Right now this doesn't feel worth the animation time to be honest.

  • @Dojo.1867 said:
    I don't think your suggestion makes Primal Cry good enough. All the other ones are fine as they are imo (and powerful) but this one really lacks behind.

    As it is clearly supposed to complement condi specs I suggest making it pulse 3 bleed (as it does now) but also 3 poison (instead of the vulnerability). Right now this doesn't feel worth the animation time to be honest.

    The vulnerability complements both power and condition builds, I'd like it to stay - it is after all a 9% damage and Condi damage increase

    I agree it somewhat lacks in the damage department, doubling the bleed stacks could make it more appreciated.

    2 bleeds per pulse for a total of 6 bleeds for 8s

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2017

    These are all solid and thoughtful suggestions and I really like them.

    I love Primal Cry for the animation mostly, but there's something about it that still feels lacking to me whenever I use it, and that goes beyond just the damage. Increasing the bleeding would be helpful, but the fact that a _cry _ causes bleeding is a bit strange to me. I've been trying to think of tweaks that would give it more of an identity:
    -Torment would be more appropriate for the theme of a cry, but it doesn't fit into condi builds like bleeding/poison/burning do, so it would feel out of place to the "Ranger Identity" (Iboga being an exception as its AA snyergizes with additional condis), so I would say no for that--maybe bleeding is the best choice. Is the cry literally ear-piercing, so is therefore why it inflicts it? Vulnerability makes thematic sense so I like it there too, and as you mentioned, synergizes with both power and condi.
    -Fear would make great thematic sense, but would make it clunky to use in PvE in AoE and group settings. So probably no to this. Especially if they make Beastly Warden apply when the cast time starts, which it _seriously needs to. _
    -A daze would make sense to me as a cry would be distracting and disorienting. This would also synergize well with Twice as Vicious and make it more formidable in both PvE and PvP. Maybe 1/2s at the beginning? A pulsing 3x 1/4s daze would probably be too powerful.
    -A cry to me would be not only intimidating to foes, but empowering to allies, furthering the thirst for blood. Perhaps pulsing stacks of might? I believe it pulses 3x, so maybe 1-2 stacks per pulse, totaling to 3-6 stacks of might. This wouldn't really do much in raid settings where might is easily capped, but would be helpful elsewhere.

    Just some ideas I thought I'd lay out. I may be looking too much at the thematic feel of the class, but I like abilities to have that flavor, which Primal Cry lacks (in my opinion). What do you think?

    A personal note/issue on your suggestion for Live Fast:
    I have been playing around with Invigorating Bond in both PvE and PvP (love the healing modifier when I merge with my Jacy), but I have found myself refraining from using my pets' F2 skills because I don't want them to trigger Invigorating Bond (say at a start of a fight with a Lynx, or when I am using a Smokescale F2 away from allies to reposition/stealth) so I can save it for while I'm merged. The 20s cooldown on that feels punishing and clunky, and I'd find it frustrating to have a similar thing happen to Live Fast. Ideally for the trait, I would like for the ICD on the pet F2 skills to be separate from that of the Beastmode F3. If Fresh Reinforcement stays where it is, you wouldn't be able to capitalize on the boons your pet receives unless you take WHaO due to both it and Live Fast being major adept traits.

    Again, I love your suggestions and I think they reflect how a lot of us feel the Soulbeast lacks. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the melded pet skills, because those to me feel like the most unfinished, sloppy, and half-baked aspect of the entire spec. Frankly, I am disappointed that ANet released some of them in their current implementation.

    (Edited for grammar)

  • ProtoMarcus.7649ProtoMarcus.7649 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2017

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    -snip-

    You make me realise how the simple addition of a boon for all Beast Abilities would greatly enhance them, but then I think it's asking too much... But if they'd consider it, I feel those would match:

    • Fury on Worldy Impact - Matches the Ferocious theme, synergizes with fury traits which are all about power damage
    • 3 Might on Primal Cry - Might affects both condition damage and direct damage, fits with the Deadly theme
    • Swiftness on Unflinching Fortitude - Thought of stability too, but that goes to the next suggestion - Swiftness fits the movement theme of the skill, protection wouldn't make sense as you're immune to direct damage for 4s
    • Stability on Prelude Lash - Goes with the versatile aspect, it's also the counter boon to the pull effect of the skill itself
    • Resistance on Spiritual Reprieve - Welp, it's already there!

    To answer the rest of your post, I'm thinking the bleed is from perforated eardrums, I also fail to see the explanation so I go with that one!

    Was thinking of 2s weakness per pulse as additional condition, would also fit the intimidating aspect.
    As you said, CC can be traited with Beastly Warden and although Fear would make sense thematically, it would also push the opponents away, so they'd have reduced stacks applied on them.

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • Would really love to see some more versatility to the versatile pets, maybe some boon rip? Gives soulbeast a way to compete with the Stability and resistance spam.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2017

    Fantastic ideas all of them.

    Just with one caveat: Primal Cry could benefit from some confusion or torment (or both). Right now is a very underwhelming skill which does less damage during the channelling than using dagger MH.

    And Prelude slash from some Daze. You bring your enemies close so they can knock the kitten out of you it doesn't really work well for the soulbeast. Daze should make the skill not a suicide note.

  • cafard.8953cafard.8953 Member ✭✭
    edited October 2, 2017

    Not a fan of the Live Fast cooldown to have it work on pet F2. I like being able to merge and know that it's predictably there and available. It'd be annoying having to think that I won't get my fury/quickness because I hit F2 not long ago, just like when Clarion Call was out of sync with pet swap timer.

    Otherwise I mostly use:

    • Prelude Lash and find it just right too. On a side note, it takes Electric Wyvern to a different level altogether in breakbar terms between the wyvern's wing flap, its F2, then the merged F2 and F3 (plus whatever the ranger brings, such as LB4 or Axe4).
    • Spiritual Reprieve and yeah, the casting time feels like forever in condi bombs, haha. Wouldn't mind having it cut a bit but at any rate it's a fantastic skill. Moa stance makes for an even longer Resistance buff, and unlike stances, it's not halved in duration for allies, yay.
    • Wordly Impact, and find it great too. A blast finisher would be the icing on the cake, but ah, not the end of the world if it doesn't come to that. It crits like I expected merged Tail Swipe to crit, basically...

    No real opinion on the others, haven't really played much with them. And yeah, I've been looking for a supportive Moa too, it does feel like an oversight.

  • OGDeadHead.8326OGDeadHead.8326 Member ✭✭✭

    @cafard.8953 said:
    Not a fan of the Live Fast cooldown to have it work on pet F2.

    There's absolutely no need for an ICD on Live Fast, whether or not they allow it to work on pets as well when using their F2. Most of the 'hidden' ICDs on traits needs to go anyway, or at least show an icon when they are available (looking at for example Invigorating Bond, to name but one).

    Speaking of which, small icons to show which beast abilities are available and off of cd would also be a nice qol improvement, so that you know when your Worldly Impact is ready to use.

  • @ProtoMarcus.7649 said:

    • Swiftness on Unflinching Fortitude - Thought of stability too, but that goes to the next suggestion - Swiftness fits the movement theme of the skill, protection wouldn't make sense as you're immune to direct damage for 4s

    Retaliation would be a better fit.

    PET PRECISION & DPS DATA (DPS outdated)
    Back in Black... Desert Online.

  • @Wondrouswall.7169 said:

    @ProtoMarcus.7649 said:

    • Swiftness on Unflinching Fortitude - Thought of stability too, but that goes to the next suggestion - Swiftness fits the movement theme of the skill, protection wouldn't make sense as you're immune to direct damage for 4s

    Retaliation would be a better fit.

    Brilliant. If it was a thing, it'd be amazing with Beastly Warden too

    One can dream

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • @OGDeadHead.8326 said:

    @cafard.8953 said:
    Not a fan of the Live Fast cooldown to have it work on pet F2.

    There's absolutely no need for an ICD on Live Fast, whether or not they allow it to work on pets as well when using their F2. Most of the 'hidden' ICDs on traits needs to go anyway, or at least show an icon when they are available (looking at for example Invigorating Bond, to name but one).

    Speaking of which, small icons to show which beast abilities are available and off of cd would also be a nice qol improvement, so that you know when your Worldly Impact is ready to use.

    Live Fast would need ICD to stop skill-cancelling 'abuse' - and the 12s CD is basically the CD it has right now, as leaving Beastmode has a 2s CD and re-entering it is 10s. Also, if it works like any other beast ability traits, they have seperate CDs from Pet vs Player

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills