Remove "top" stats — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Remove "top" stats

Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭
edited February 8, 2019 in PVP

Thread is the title, but I'm going to explain why I think this is needed.

There are far too many people who don't fully understand the game/conquest who think that getting "top stats" matter. Don't get me wrong — I really like seeing the statistics page after the game ends, as well as the percentage of team damage, healing, kills, revives, but I don't believe there should be misleading awards for being the leader in them, especially when the counting of these stats is flawed in some regards.

For example, there are revive skills (Scrapper) that don't grant credit for a revive, while the temporary Mesmer revive does grant credit for a revive. Similarly, credits for "offense and defense" seem to be arbitrary/flawed.

Lastly, I think the less knowledgable people, who think the top stats mean anything, are actually very misled based on how these stats are awarded. For example, with top kills, you have lower tier players trying to cleave down bodies, even if they're being bled out, because they want that top stat! Additionally, it doesn't reinforce that there is equal value in different roles. A roaming thief is going to get very few top stats awards, when somebody who bunkers home all game is going to get a bunch, if he's attacked a few times. I've seen countless thieves get chewed out because lower tier players have an incorrect idea in their head that they are doing something correctly — all because they've been awarded top stats for it time and time again.

What's the solution? Ez — keep everything as is, don't change any UI, just remove the awarding of any top stats/icons. (EDIT: To be clear, keep the stats page so you can review what you did that game, but everybody can glean what they will from it.)

GG.

Comments

  • I wouldn't mind them removing the top stats, so long as I can see if I did the best in x or y in the match. It is true, though, that most of the time, teamfighters get the top stats and say "I carried this game, you guys are all bad" (remaining PG13 here lol) where the Thief/Mesmer actually carried by taking the right fights, decapping, and overall having a presence in the match. The problem with top stats is that they currently are misleading though, and having them reworked in "who was the most efficient with his abilities" would be the better option.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2019

    Nah. I deserve to know games where I do 40-60% of the entire team's damage as a roamer so I can rub it in my garbo teammates faces.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭

    Totally agreed, Will.

    @DigiQWill.6378 said:
    I wouldn't mind them removing the top stats, so long as I can see if I did the best in x or y in the match. It is true, though, that most of the time, teamfighters get the top stats and say "I carried this game, you guys are all bad" (remaining PG13 here lol) where the Thief/Mesmer actually carried by taking the right fights, decapping, and overall having a presence in the match. The problem with top stats is that they currently are misleading though, and having them reworked in "who was the most efficient with his abilities" would be the better option.

    Did you read the status or just see title and comment, mort? Lol I say nothing should change, you should still see stats and stats page, just get rid of awarding nubs a "top stat" they didn't truly earn.

    I, too, think it's important to know if I was slacking or slaying when it comes to my damage.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Nah. I deserve to know games where I do 40-60% of the entire team's damage as a roamer so I can rub it in my garbo teammates faces.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2019

    top damage for sure doesn't matter. maybe kills and healing can go. keep the others.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Teammate: "omg go back to PvE, ur garbage"
    Game ends
    You have every top stat, including revives

    Although they mean nothing, they do come in handy for the same reason mentioned here:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Nah. I deserve to know games where I do 40-60% of the entire team's damage as a roamer so I can rub it in my garbo teammates faces.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    top damage for sure doesn't matter. maybe kills and healing can go. keep the others.

    And why on Earth would Top Revives count :lol: Top Offence, Top Defense and Top Rotations should be what we look at, though.

  • Twilight Tempest.7584Twilight Tempest.7584 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    And, and we won't have to feel so embarrassed when we're the only one without top stats! x)

    Yeah stats can be misleading (but that's kind of the nature of stats in life). It's up to people to interpret them correctly and to educate those who don't.

    In some roles and matches our contributions are spread out rather than concentrated so we get no top stats even though we mattered. Eh, nubs will be nubs and will do and say nub things.

    I suppose one mitigating factor is stats aren't limited to one of each type per team. If multiple people all got top kills, they all get that stat, etc. But... by the same token, I guess if one person got 12 kills and another 11, the first person gets top kills while the second doesn't. That hardly means the second didn't contribute. Same applies for all stats.

    Re OP's suggestion, yeah I guess it would be better if top stats weren't awarded as such, as long as we could still privately see our own stats to evaluate our own performance. As it stands, top stats are too readily used for meaningless bragging rights. However, what would replace Top Stats for the dailies, guild missions, and associated rewards?

    Edit: Added last paragraph.

  • @McPero.3287 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Nah. I deserve to know games where I do 40-60% of the entire team's damage as a roamer so I can rub it in my garbo teammates faces.

    But you play mesmer. Thats like braging about winning a 100m sprint against people with one leg when you have two.

    That is a totally unfair statement. Would playing chronomancer make me a better PvPer? not at all. Don't get in the flame about any classes in a thread without any actual reasonning behind it, it is avoidable and better.

  • McPero.3287McPero.3287 Member ✭✭✭

    @DigiQWill.6378 said:

    @McPero.3287 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Nah. I deserve to know games where I do 40-60% of the entire team's damage as a roamer so I can rub it in my garbo teammates faces.

    But you play mesmer. Thats like braging about winning a 100m sprint against people with one leg when you have two.

    That is a totally unfair statement. Would playing chronomancer make me a better PvPer? not at all. Don't get in the flame about any classes in a thread without any actual reasonning behind it, it is avoidable and better.

    No playing a mesmer would make you a worse PvPer because you spoil yourself with its overloaded kit that breaks all the game mechanics. What playing a broken class does is make you seem better and can play against better players that don't play mesmer even though you are really not. Now stop pretending that mesmer is not broken.

  • @McPero.3287 said:

    @DigiQWill.6378 said:

    @McPero.3287 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Nah. I deserve to know games where I do 40-60% of the entire team's damage as a roamer so I can rub it in my garbo teammates faces.

    But you play mesmer. Thats like braging about winning a 100m sprint against people with one leg when you have two.

    That is a totally unfair statement. Would playing chronomancer make me a better PvPer? not at all. Don't get in the flame about any classes in a thread without any actual reasonning behind it, it is avoidable and better.

    No playing a mesmer would make you a worse PvPer because you spoil yourself with its overloaded kit that breaks all the game mechanics. What playing a broken class does is make you seem better and can play against better players that don't play mesmer even though you are really not. Now stop pretending that mesmer is not broken.

    Mesmer is NOT broken. It is at best performing. Mirage is a whole new topic, and your lack of understanding about the main difference between a class and its elite specialization is saddening. I've posted a thread about how come people think Mirage is overpowered, about how come it is seen so much in ranked, and why people have issues with it. This thread is about top stats in general, not about your egotistic manners and too-proudful demeanour to accept that you cannot counter a certain class with your current main. I main Mesmer (and all its elites) in PvP, yes. I do not deny the fact that condition Mirage is overperforming yet again, but saying that Mesmer is overtuned is a false statement that shows lack of understanding of the game, even if you are a veteran in PvP or not. Back to top stats though: removing them overall would help people like the one I just quoted to not get hot-headed because they didn't get a top stat and a mirage got 3.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    Id like the old stats page back..
    that was very useful for build crafting being able to see how many condi clears you did for allies or how many boons you supplied and so forth.

    But yea top stats doesn't mean much, only thing that's really important (to me) is my kills and deaths..
    If I go 27 kills and 1 death by spawn camping all game but 0 in offensive and defensive, I might get flamed by allies for not capping anything but I honestly feel like im being more useful by keeping half a team in spawn until allies triple cap and we all spawn camp.
    Most of my games (and I can post pics or vids) usually result with /sit in front of enemy spawn with allies waiting for the round to end.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • @DigiQWill.6378 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    top damage for sure doesn't matter. maybe kills and healing can go. keep the others.

    And why on Earth would Top Revives count :lol: Top Offence, Top Defense and Top Rotations should be what we look at, though.

    cuz ppl don't revive enough.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • I'd rather they put back amount of boon strips and condition cleanses. And added a couple of new ones just for statistic purposes.

  • or make visible team wide, top stats are meaningles but a general performance table could be more significant, and sometimes the most significant player to game not receive any one but is "silver" / "bronze" medal in all, and their job has to be show to other teammates

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:
    Teammate: "omg go back to PvE, ur garbage"
    Game ends
    You have every top stat, including revives

    Although they mean nothing, they do come in handy for the same reason mentioned here:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Nah. I deserve to know games where I do 40-60% of the entire team's damage as a roamer so I can rub it in my garbo teammates faces.

    >

    Here’s my thing. Top stats are arbitrary. You may feel like you carried the game, and because you fought on mid all game in a perpetual 3v3 (for example) you will definitely have a lot of “top stats,” but you might be missing your roamers who plussed all your fights and harassed far all game, keeping it manageable. The roamer won’t have any top stats.

    Post-game stats should be available and visible, they just shouldn’t have arbitrary and visible awards, which can reinforce bad gameplay. This would achieve the goal of “top stats” to a greater effect. If you see you had 9% of team damage and 50% of team deaths, you will know you need to improve.

    Also, yikes. We can’t even keep a class-neutral thread free of mirage hate lol. Please don’t get this thread closed or merged with mirage megathread, y’all.

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    top damage for sure doesn't matter. maybe kills and healing can go. keep the others.

    See, and this is another thing I’m talking about. Nobody can even agree on what stats are important. If you’re the team support, hopefully you have top healing and maybe top defense? If they’ve figured out how defensive points are earned lol.

    If you’re a roamer, a whole different set of statistics are applicable to you, including number of decaps, number of seconds spent trolling an outnumbered fight, number of +1 kills achieved.

    And in my mind, the only stat worth a badge in this meta is top damage, because at least it means if you’ve done 30% of your team’s damage and your team won, you know you did something right.

    That sparks a whole second part of my thinking. Why are top stats awarded for losing teams?? It just gives the nub Necro who suicided onto the middle node all game a laurel on which to rest their hat, because maybe they will have a few top stats, and say, “I have top stats! I don’t need to improve my gameplay, my team sucks!” When really if they played efficiently and didn’t continue a stagger, they would have been a component of a winning team.

    Just a few thoughts.

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭

    when im doing most dps, heal and rezzes as jalis rev I WANT to know that for sure

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    Even top damage stat is hard to interpret. I rather have a thief with 0 top stats who capped/decapped the whole game compared to a holo who was ganking a fb/weaver the whole game without even decapping the node he was fighting on.

    edit: why not add some gold silver bronze "levels" for top stats so that it will show clearly who was the most usefull in team when we compare a gold top damage stat holo to a silver top damage, heal, cap, decap stats thief.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Top reviver main here.

    Though sometimes I wish they'd change it to "only reviver".

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was cool.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • @Mbelch.9028 said:
    Here’s my thing. Top stats are arbitrary. You may feel like you carried the game, and because you fought on mid all game in a perpetual 3v3 (for example) you will definitely have a lot of “top stats,” but you might be missing your roamers who plussed all your fights and harassed far all game, keeping it manageable. The roamer won’t have any top stats.

    Post-game stats should be available and visible, they just shouldn’t have arbitrary and visible awards, which can reinforce bad gameplay. This would achieve the goal of “top stats” to a greater effect. If you see you had 9% of team damage and 50% of team deaths, you will know you need to improve.

    That is true. A thief isn't likely to get anything nowadays. Honestly, if they went ahead and removed top stats I don't think anyone would be very upset. If they did, there would still have to be some indicator to see how well your teammates are doing at fulfilling their role is important, especially in a game where people commonly throw games for virtual money and clout. When it comes to assisting in pointing this out, you're right to say top stats are absolutely useless there.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @Mbelch.9028 said:
    Here’s my thing. Top stats are arbitrary. You may feel like you carried the game, and because you fought on mid all game in a perpetual 3v3 (for example) you will definitely have a lot of “top stats,” but you might be missing your roamers who plussed all your fights and harassed far all game, keeping it manageable. The roamer won’t have any top stats.

    Post-game stats should be available and visible, they just shouldn’t have arbitrary and visible awards, which can reinforce bad gameplay. This would achieve the goal of “top stats” to a greater effect. If you see you had 9% of team damage and 50% of team deaths, you will know you need to improve.

    That is true. A thief isn't likely to get anything nowadays. Honestly, if they went ahead and removed top stats I don't think anyone would be very upset. If they did, there would still have to be some indicator to see how well your teammates are doing at fulfilling their role is important, especially in a game where people commonly throw games for virtual money and clout. When it comes to assisting in pointing this out, you're right to say top stats are absolutely useless there.

    You just encapsulated this thread lol. Thank you. I agree. I think the best thing would be to diversify what stats are displayed based on common roles.

    I don’t think they should be displayed in badges, but I do think stats should be displayed. Ya kno?

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    Oh ye...please remove all topstats.
    They are misleading and mostly arbitrary.

    If I play a bunker spec and fight another bunker in a never-ending 1v1 on THEIR node, I still will get top offense and probably top healing while still being an absolute burden to my team.

    Also, as mentioned several times already...there are many factors that can't really be processed as a numeric values and still carry a team. Map awareness, Peeling for teammates, Kiting / keeping 2 enemies busy etc.etc. Those things can have quite the positive effect on the outcome of a match, even without awarding any form top-stat.

  • @Mbelch.9028 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    top damage for sure doesn't matter. maybe kills and healing can go. keep the others.

    See, and this is another thing I’m talking about. Nobody can even agree on what stats are important. If you’re the team support, hopefully you have top healing and maybe top defense? If they’ve figured out how defensive points are earned lol.

    If you’re a roamer, a whole different set of statistics are applicable to you, including number of decaps, number of seconds spent trolling an outnumbered fight, number of +1 kills achieved.

    And in my mind, the only stat worth a badge in this meta is top damage, because at least it means if you’ve done 30% of your team’s damage and your team won, you know you did something right.

    That sparks a whole second part of my thinking. Why are top stats awarded for losing teams?? It just gives the nub Necro who suicided onto the middle node all game a laurel on which to rest their hat, because maybe they will have a few top stats, and say, “I have top stats! I don’t need to improve my gameplay, my team sucks!” When really if they played efficiently and didn’t continue a stagger, they would have been a component of a winning team.

    Just a few thoughts.

    ye true about different set of statistics and I see your point about doing 30% damage and team won. what if your team didn't win? what if youre a bunker 1v1ing on home the entire match, or jump into every team fight with lots of aoe? being a burn guard lol, or staff ele, and whatnot. theres too many scenarios where top damage means zilch. I think it could be a good idea to remove top stats for losers. noticed plenty of times what your last sentence is talking about.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    top damage for sure doesn't matter. maybe kills and healing can go. keep the others.

    They all matter. Generally speaking, the team that out heal and out damage the other team typically wins. It is absolutely relevant.

    Comparing different classes/builds is not accurate. Disregarding negativity, stats are extremely useful to analyze specific build performance. It can be utilized to create bench marks for performance, which are very useful for players to know where they stand and how to improve.

    I would go to the other extreme and say that we should have full details for every player in the game results. Every single stats. In my opinion, Anet does not show the stats cuz these can be easily aggregates to indicate class balance descripencies.

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    top damage for sure doesn't matter. maybe kills and healing can go. keep the others.

    They all matter. Generally speaking, the team that out heal and out damage the other team typically wins. It is absolutely relevant.

    Comparing different classes/builds is not accurate. Disregarding negativity, stats are extremely useful to analyze specific build performance. It can be utilized to create bench marks for performance, which are very useful for players to know where they stand and how to improve.

    I would go to the other extreme and say that we should have full details for every player in the game results. Every single stats. In my opinion, Anet does not show the stats cuz these can be easily aggregates to indicate class balance descripencies.

    I think you might be going a bit too far into my suggestion, which is: Show all current stats + more if possible, just remove badges, as they're certainly misleading. And 100% remove badges for the losing team, as nobody needs a reason to think they shouldn't be improving.

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