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  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Minor adjustments to Siren's Reef which would go a long way to make it more fun (notice I don't have any issues with the current difficulty since I have no problem clearing it, but I do agree that compared to other normal T4s, certain instabilities can make this very class restrictive and un-fun):

    Pre-Ship phase:

    • limit add spawn on the mini boss.
    • de-spawn adds once having passed the maze. This serves no purpose besides being annoying. The fractal is long enough to not have to draw out its duration.
    • possibly remove birds from the maze area (I believe this would increase "fun" of the fractal a lot more).

    Ship phase:

    • make adds de-spawn on the pre bosses. It's not fun to have to cleave down infinite adds while the next canon phase already started (or make add spawns finite). If a /gg results in faster mechanics for many players, something is off.

    Final Boss:

    • change add spawns on the final boss to a similar nature as with Mai Trin: spawn adds every 25% of boss life, keep add spawns limited and finite.

    All of these changes would obviously drastically change the difficulty of the fractal. More importantly though, it would change many mechanics in a way which works better with new instabilities as well as open up more strategies to overcome content dps wise (focus down adds and then go for the boss with strong single target damage or just cleave everything down). It would put the fractal more in line with other fractals.

    The suggested ideas would make this visual noise nightmare more playable, specially for last fight. Also, outflanked should be removed from this fractal, cause the spawning pirates put players in outflanked state permanently.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Minor adjustments to Siren's Reef which would go a long way to make it more fun (notice I don't have any issues with the current difficulty since I have no problem clearing it, but I do agree that compared to other normal T4s, certain instabilities can make this very class restrictive and un-fun):

    Pre-Ship phase:

    • limit add spawn on the mini boss.
    • de-spawn adds once having passed the maze. This serves no purpose besides being annoying. The fractal is long enough to not have to draw out its duration.
    • possibly remove birds from the maze area (I believe this would increase "fun" of the fractal a lot more).

    Ship phase:

    • make adds de-spawn on the pre bosses. It's not fun to have to cleave down infinite adds while the next canon phase already started (or make add spawns finite). If a /gg results in faster mechanics for many players, something is off.

    Final Boss:

    • change add spawns on the final boss to a similar nature as with Mai Trin: spawn adds every 25% of boss life, keep add spawns limited and finite.

    All of these changes would obviously drastically change the difficulty of the fractal. More importantly though, it would change many mechanics in a way which works better with new instabilities as well as open up more strategies to overcome content dps wise (focus down adds and then go for the boss with strong single target damage or just cleave everything down). It would put the fractal more in line with other fractals.

    The suggested ideas would make this visual noise nightmare more playable, specially for last fight. Also, outflanked should be removed from this fractal, cause the spawning pirates put players in outflanked state permanently.

    That was the main goal behind the ideas. The main thought process being: some of the new instabilities do not synergize well with infinite re-spawning enemies. Outflanked being one of the very heavily affected instabilities.

    Birds I've commented on in a different thread and I believe removing the birds enemy spawn or removing the blind from the condition would go well in bringing that instability more in line with others. At this point it's not the damage which causes issues with birds, it's the blind AND additional targets which simply do not work well with the skill and target limit design in the game causing exclusion of certain classes.

    Let's see what Tuesday brings.

  • Hoodie.1045Hoodie.1045 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Hoodie.1045 said:
    The best way to play Siren's Reef regardless of tier is to have a support player in your group. Whether it's a druid, a support scrapper, a support tempest or any other healing build, as long as you have at least one support player, you shouldn't have any problems. Groups without a support tend to struggle a lot, especially on the final fight with Captain Crowe.

    In my opinion, Crowe becomes unfairly difficult on higher tiers without a support in your group. The amount of things you have to keep in mind, such as the flux bomb, the unavoidable shark attack, piranhas in the water etc, it can be overwhelming for some players. So your best bet is to have a support player in your group, especially a support player who focuses on keeping allies alive.

    About the blanket part, I tried to dodge it many times in many ways but I always failed, is it really unavoidable? If yes that's a really kitten mechanic....

    It's unavoidable in the sense that even if you time it perfectly and dodge, you'll still take a lot of damage, not to mention if it hits you in the water and you have low health, it instantly kills you. But you can counter it by stacking with other players. If everyone stacks on the player with the green field, it won't damage you and instead it damages the enemies around you.

    Karras

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hoodie.1045 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Hoodie.1045 said:
    The best way to play Siren's Reef regardless of tier is to have a support player in your group. Whether it's a druid, a support scrapper, a support tempest or any other healing build, as long as you have at least one support player, you shouldn't have any problems. Groups without a support tend to struggle a lot, especially on the final fight with Captain Crowe.

    In my opinion, Crowe becomes unfairly difficult on higher tiers without a support in your group. The amount of things you have to keep in mind, such as the flux bomb, the unavoidable shark attack, piranhas in the water etc, it can be overwhelming for some players. So your best bet is to have a support player in your group, especially a support player who focuses on keeping allies alive.

    About the blanket part, I tried to dodge it many times in many ways but I always failed, is it really unavoidable? If yes that's a really kitten mechanic....

    It's unavoidable in the sense that even if you time it perfectly and dodge, you'll still take a lot of damage, not to mention if it hits you in the water and you have low health, it instantly kills you. But you can counter it by stacking with other players. If everyone stacks on the player with the green field, it won't damage you and instead it damages the enemies around you.

    Nice thanks, I would have never figured out the stacking part.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • I did it a few times now on t4.

    The black peter with the cannon is okay so long we don't have birds but if the group isn't 100% there and know what they are doing you wipe at least once.

    The labyrinth phase no random group can do that in the way it should be done and I admin I can't either I'm not for stealth play in gw2 result we are dying 1..2..3 times.

    When we need to defend the ship from the ghost pirates with 4 canons the transit is too sudden most of the time we wipe here because ghosts from the phase before are still on the ship.

    Crow with the 5 aoes and the ghosts which help her are really hard to manage but her despawning and respawing is extremely annoying even when she is marked as target the marker disappear with the whole despawning and respawing thing . Its not that I don't know where she will be(she has some pattern and I can see her) but its more about getting her into the target again.

    So the minimum I would wish for in this fractal is : no birds(or a bubble skill for the canons), able to use stealth and Mesmer portals in the Labyrinth, a clean the deck phase before the ghosts attack, and that Crow keeps here target marker even when getting invisible /despawning

  • Ojimaru.8970Ojimaru.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    After having gone through this Fractal again, I think the biggest problem it has is simply clarity; that is to say, the three end bosses are essentially red herrings, and the main threat are actually the adds. Groups that fail to control the add spawns one way or another will typically be overwhelmed by the enemies' boon stacking (including Quickness from the Lightning Wraiths, Protection, and Aegis from the Elite Quartermasters), CC (dazes from Charr Phantom Raiders), and Conditions (lots of poison from the Asura Ghostly Grenadiers). I would wager that there would be far fewer problems with the Fractal if the add spawns throughout the ship events were taken down a tier (i.e. Elites reduced to Veterans, Veterans reduced to normal).

    "Thief? How rude! I'm a Procurement Specialist." -Glenn Gynnafante

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Pre-Ship phase:

    • limit add spawn on the mini boss.
    • de-spawn adds once having passed the maze. This serves no purpose besides being annoying. The fractal is long enough to not have to draw out its duration.
    • possibly remove birds from the maze area (I believe this would increase "fun" of the fractal a lot more).

    Ship phase:

    • make adds de-spawn on the pre bosses. It's not fun to have to cleave down infinite adds while the next canon phase already started (or make add spawns finite). If a /gg results in faster mechanics for many players, something is off.

    Final Boss:

    • change add spawns on the final boss to a similar nature as with Mai Trin: spawn adds every 25% of boss life, keep add spawns limited and finite.

    These are all great ideas.

    The fractal is long enough as it is. I would not oppose removing the two bring the treasure from the beach events and just have defend the ship event with all 4 cannons active. Once you have control of the ship. Go straight to the three boss fights back to back to back. Have a set number of adds on the first two fights and then go to the trigger a set number of adds every 25% on the final boss. If your team wipes on a particular boss that is where you begin when you come back to the boat.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Here is a complete guide to Siren's Reef last boss fight.
    Kill this guy,just stop what you doing and kill it, wherever it appears, that is it.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Stalkingwolf.6035Stalkingwolf.6035 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2019

    @Hoodie.1045 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Hoodie.1045 said:
    The best way to play Siren's Reef regardless of tier is to have a support player in your group. Whether it's a druid, a support scrapper, a support tempest or any other healing build, as long as you have at least one support player, you shouldn't have any problems. Groups without a support tend to struggle a lot, especially on the final fight with Captain Crowe.

    In my opinion, Crowe becomes unfairly difficult on higher tiers without a support in your group. The amount of things you have to keep in mind, such as the flux bomb, the unavoidable shark attack, piranhas in the water etc, it can be overwhelming for some players. So your best bet is to have a support player in your group, especially a support player who focuses on keeping allies alive.

    About the blanket part, I tried to dodge it many times in many ways but I always failed, is it really unavoidable? If yes that's a really kitten mechanic....

    It's unavoidable in the sense that even if you time it perfectly and dodge, you'll still take a lot of damage, not to mention if it hits you in the water and you have low health, it instantly kills you. But you can counter it by stacking with other players. If everyone stacks on the player with the green field, it won't damage you and instead it damages the enemies around you.

    what? so you have to block it? because with my guardian i was instant down with one hit.

    Edit :

    Stack in green circle to spread damage from shark attack

    Ok i got it.

    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster

  • Hoodie.1045Hoodie.1045 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2019

    @Stalkingwolf.6035 said:

    @Hoodie.1045 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Hoodie.1045 said:
    The best way to play Siren's Reef regardless of tier is to have a support player in your group. Whether it's a druid, a support scrapper, a support tempest or any other healing build, as long as you have at least one support player, you shouldn't have any problems. Groups without a support tend to struggle a lot, especially on the final fight with Captain Crowe.

    In my opinion, Crowe becomes unfairly difficult on higher tiers without a support in your group. The amount of things you have to keep in mind, such as the flux bomb, the unavoidable shark attack, piranhas in the water etc, it can be overwhelming for some players. So your best bet is to have a support player in your group, especially a support player who focuses on keeping allies alive.

    About the blanket part, I tried to dodge it many times in many ways but I always failed, is it really unavoidable? If yes that's a really kitten mechanic....

    It's unavoidable in the sense that even if you time it perfectly and dodge, you'll still take a lot of damage, not to mention if it hits you in the water and you have low health, it instantly kills you. But you can counter it by stacking with other players. If everyone stacks on the player with the green field, it won't damage you and instead it damages the enemies around you.

    what? so you have to block it? because with my guardian i was instant down with one hit.

    Just to be clear, you can't block it or dodge it, you must stack with other players. That's the only way to counter the Captain Crowe's shark attack. The more players stack, the less damage you take and if every player stacks then nobody takes damage and instead it damages the enemies around you with the exception of Crowe. Not having a single player stacking on the player with the green field is guaranteed to be instantly downed especially if that player is playing a low health profession like elementalist, guardian and thief.

    Karras

  • Deepcuts.9740Deepcuts.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    Wiped 10 times last night.
    No matter how many times I told my party to try to cleave and kill adds, don't just focus the boss, nobody listened.
    Actually, some were adamant about it. "lol, just focus boss".
    I agree that instabilities play a big part, but too many people are trying to skip as much content and mechanics as they can. I could understand even that, but when you see that some strategies don't work, one should adjust and try something else. Don't just bang your head against the wall ad infinitum.
    Also, SR sux.

  • Player with shark gets blown off ship because out of energy and snaerd > certain death with no possibility of rez due to adds + poison
    it's like a huge bag of big kitten-yous to any RNG fuckery/mistake, over which my pugs have wiped countless times. And no chance of recovery after a death is AIDS.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just remove this kitten boon-spam. All pof fractals has built in no pain no gain which imo is pretty annoying. U strip boons from boss? U will have to strip it again in no time. On amala with npng as rev u can pretty much sit on demon whole fight. It's just stupid

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • VanWilder.6923VanWilder.6923 Member ✭✭✭

    Kitten this Frac, its easily the worst one after all. Just endlessly spawned mobs as a real challenge, with many new instabs, all groups I ran into, they hate this Frac so much and always respond with "Ehhh, This kitten frac" when enter the instance. We were able to clear it but We hate this Frac. Well to be specific, endlessly spawned mobs.

  • The best experience I had was I played a healerbrand with a viper scourge then the rest doesn't matter but DPS. I found that's the best combo because healerbrand offers lots of aegis heals and boons while a viper scourge uses the Epi and adds closeby are just deadmeats, on the other hand the scourge offers barriers when doing shards, a major relief when the healer is on the cooldowns. And the rest DPS monsters just do what they are born to do, fast and neat. Even with birds, slippery, or outflanked. This boss cannot be full DPS unless you are a group of SnowCrows. Aegis actually can counter the shark, and the boss's wind blow (not the side blows), then one thing to consider is, if your pug cannot do good with the wind blows, the best way is let it blow you from the middle of the ship, just the adds but you won't get down to the water and get eaten lol.

  • GWMO.4785GWMO.4785 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2019

    In all fairness i think that the fractal itself is a nice one. However the instabilities that come with it on tier 4 makes it rather annoying. Well... a few specific ones at that. ANet has blacklisted certain instabilities in certain fractals. And Siren's Reef needs that too:

    • Outflanked. I think this is the evil here. Given the mechanics and billion mobs coming from different corners this instability should not link with this fractal.
    • We bleed fire. This not necessarily a killer. I dont think it should go on the blacklist. However it needs tweaking. With so many mobs triggering so many of this instability it rather makes it a real pain to deal with in the fractal. Generally i think this instability should trigger on every foe at the same time.
    • Social. The ship platform is just too small to keep 5 players on there given the mechanics. Tho manageable if players dont have movement paired classes like daredevil or mirage
    • Slippery Slope. Who ever came up with this seriously deserves a slap. It functions so clumsy. I get the idea behind the instability, I know it is suppose to hinder your movement. But if you dodge AWAY and then immediately try to walk back. Then you got rocket shot to front. instead of slipping away and needing to build velocity to move up again. Not really working as intended. Is it? Especially in tight/small areas.
  • If you want an easy experience play on Tier 1. Done.

  • Even after months the fail rate on this fractal is still abnormal high on this fractal feel like 50-70% of all tries fails. People starts to leaving when this fractal comes up even guild mates.

  • Did it yesterday with my power reaper on T4 (We bleed fire insta). Just use GS 5 to drag mobs to you, then cleave them all at once, use gas cloud whenever possible for projectile destruction - guardian had many projectile reflects as well as mesmer... ezpz.

  • VDAC.2137VDAC.2137 Member ✭✭✭

    Probably my least favorite fractal because of the ship fight. There is so much going on and so many effects on the ground and worse, it is not at all intuitive what the different circles mean. :confused:

    Nightmare, my most favorite fractal, also has lots of ground targeting effects but they are all aoes you need to avoid and Arkk is even so kind as to clue you in on “toxic sickness” in case one had any doubts about the projecting cone!

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VDAC.2137 said:
    Probably my least favorite fractal because of the ship fight. There is so much going on and so many effects on the ground and worse, it is not at all intuitive what the different circles mean. :confused:

    Nightmare, my most favorite fractal, also has lots of ground targeting effects but they are all aoes you need to avoid and Arkk is even so kind as to clue you in on “toxic sickness” in case one had any doubts about the projecting cone!

    Orange = Avoid, Green = Stack in.

    That's uniform across the game, from Vale Guardian to Arkk to Siren's Reef.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2019

    @VDAC.2137 said:
    Probably my least favorite fractal because of the ship fight. There is so much going on and so many effects on the ground and worse, it is not at all intuitive what the different circles mean. :confused:

    Nightmare, my most favorite fractal, also has lots of ground targeting effects but they are all aoes you need to avoid and Arkk is even so kind as to clue you in on “toxic sickness” in case one had any doubts about the projecting cone!

    Not sure how much clearer the circles can be. At this point it's on the player for having poor pattern recognition skills. Flux bomb has the exact same expanding timer to dropping deadly aoe circle schema. Green circles are universally good circles you want to stand in. Vale guardian greens, unbound guardian greens, Arkk cm greens and now sirens reef shark greens.

    Also not true. In nightmare you want to be catching the blue bullets in bullet hell.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2019

    Its possible to just facetank this fractal if you have an Engineer with turret reflect shield and condition to boon conversion, its very hard on them micro-management wise though because it needs a precise rotation to pull off a single support here.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW) | ♀♥♀

  • VDAC.2137VDAC.2137 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @VDAC.2137 said:
    Probably my least favorite fractal because of the ship fight. There is so much going on and so many effects on the ground and worse, it is not at all intuitive what the different circles mean. :confused:

    Nightmare, my most favorite fractal, also has lots of ground targeting effects but they are all aoes you need to avoid and Arkk is even so kind as to clue you in on “toxic sickness” in case one had any doubts about the projecting cone!

    Not sure how much clearer the circles can be. At this point it's on the player for having poor pattern recognition skills. Flux bomb has the exact same expanding timer to dropping deadly aoe circle schema. Green circles are universally good circles you want to stand in. Vale guardian greens, unbound guardian greens, Arkk cm greens and now sirens reef shark greens.

    Also not true. In nightmare you want to be catching the blue bullets in bullet hell.

    Okay, fair points! I guess I’ve been doing Nightmare so long it seems self explanatory by now. Somehow I didn’t notice that one of the circles was green... One of the player-targeted circles is green? I don’t recall anything that looked like the circles from Vale Guardian, but if one appeared on the floor, yes, I would assume I need to stand in it.

    Thank you! I will look for this next time! I haven’t done many fractals for a while.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Not sure how much clearer the circles can be. At this point it's on the player for having poor pattern recognition skills. [...] Vale guardian greens, unbound guardian greens, Arkk cm greens and now sirens reef shark greens.

    And if the player in question hasn't ever done raids or CMs before? Can't just assume players know something because they experienced it in top tier content only played by a minority of players. :hushed:

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Not sure how much clearer the circles can be. At this point it's on the player for having poor pattern recognition skills. [...] Vale guardian greens, unbound guardian greens, Arkk cm greens and now sirens reef shark greens.

    And if the player in question hasn't ever done raids or CMs before? Can't just assume players know something because they experienced it in top tier content only played by a minority of players. :hushed:

    Yeah, but there is usually someone in the party who can explain this. Or if the party wipes multiple time, a simple google search can explain this.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kasoki.5180 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Not sure how much clearer the circles can be. At this point it's on the player for having poor pattern recognition skills. [...] Vale guardian greens, unbound guardian greens, Arkk cm greens and now sirens reef shark greens.

    And if the player in question hasn't ever done raids or CMs before? Can't just assume players know something because they experienced it in top tier content only played by a minority of players. :hushed:

    Yeah, but there is usually someone in the party who can explain this. Or if the party wipes multiple time, a simple google search can explain this.

    You're making an assumption, and while sure you can google it, or just read it on the wiki, neither point refutes the statement made by the poster above:

    @VDAC.2137 said:
    it is not at all intuitive what the different circles mean. :confused:

    Just arguing against this notion that what the circles do should be widely known because they have already been used in raids and CMs. :wink:

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Not sure how much clearer the circles can be. At this point it's on the player for having poor pattern recognition skills. [...] Vale guardian greens, unbound guardian greens, Arkk cm greens and now sirens reef shark greens.

    And if the player in question hasn't ever done raids or CMs before? Can't just assume players know something because they experienced it in top tier content only played by a minority of players. :hushed:

    Then you die to it, learn, and do it better next time.
    Now you know to stand in Green.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Not sure how much clearer the circles can be. At this point it's on the player for having poor pattern recognition skills. [...] Vale guardian greens, unbound guardian greens, Arkk cm greens and now sirens reef shark greens.

    And if the player in question hasn't ever done raids or CMs before? Can't just assume players know something because they experienced it in top tier content only played by a minority of players. :hushed:

    Yeah, but there is usually someone in the party who can explain this. Or if the party wipes multiple time, a simple google search can explain this.

    You're making an assumption, and while sure you can google it, or just read it on the wiki, neither point refutes the statement made by the poster above:

    @VDAC.2137 said:
    it is not at all intuitive what the different circles mean. :confused:

    Just arguing against this notion that what the circles do should be widely known because they have already been used in raids and CMs. :wink:

    You do know that the green circles are used in open world aswell, last boss in bloodstonefen for example.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    There really is a secret to Siren's Reef on the boat:

    Target the trash before the bosses. And switch back to the trash when new ones arrive.

    Trash spawns a lot, but they don't RE-spawn. Once dead, they don't come back. The ones that come on a clock will still come, but that was going to happen anyhow. Kill them, and you have the boss alone for around thirty seconds at a time.

    Yeah, there are other rules (like bring the green circle to your team, but run the red circle away), but the trash-first rule tops them all. Do it, and the bosses are easy to kill. Don't do it, and you will wipe on tier four unless you have a coordinated and/or very good team.

    NOTE: It's perfectly fine to pull the trash to the boss and use AOE on them both. But, the trash needs to be the party's priority, not the boss.