Yet another suggestion to improve the wardrobe and transmutation charges — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Yet another suggestion to improve the wardrobe and transmutation charges

One of the issues that come up every now and then is the cost of changing your looks and how it ties to the gemstore so that transmutation charges aren't going away.

Currently, changing a piece of armor's skin costs a charge, regardless, which makes changing your look a total no-go for characters that are levelling (players suggest you stick to outfits because of this).

I was wondering, what if there were an option in the wardrobe to "free" a skin, so that this specific skin no longer costs charges when being applied. This would, of course, have a cost. It could be a "wardrobe freedom ticket" which could cost.... let's say, 10 transmutation charges.

Is that too high? Then make those freedom tickets tradeable in the TP. I hear some players are drowning in charges and would love a way to make money out of that. Combine that with those players who love making alts and would love even more no longer worrying about charges for your levelling characters, and you've got a market.

Depending on how the market balances out, it's possible it wouldn't remove at all the demand for charges.

Comments

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How long will it be free 24h 48h 72h?
    Dont joke and say forever for just 10 charges.

  • ANet's stance has consistently been that they don't think the cost is high, that transmutation charges are given as rewards from a variety of content, and anyone that wants can obtain more by converting gold to gems or buying them for RL cash.

    So instead of proposing a solution that undermines that, why not focus on the issue raised in the second paragraph, paraphrased as:

    Can we make it cheaper to play fashion wars while leveling?

    The obvious existing answer is Outfits (which ANet will happily sell to you for a modest fee ;) ). But the OP wants to reskin armor and weapons. There is a (limited) precedent for this, which I still make use of: AP rewards (Zenith Weapons), HoM rewards (Heritage armor and specialty weapons), plus a few others. These all require something from the player first, and after unlocking, these are all free to reskin as often as the player likes.

    tl;dr I can see ANet considering a request some future set to be made free-to-reskin; I have trouble imagining any other scenario. It's not the comprehensive solution for which the OP asked, but I think a lot of people would be pleased to have an earnable-via-achievement set that didn't have a reskin cost.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    Here is the issue with any suggestion based on such "problems". The perceived problem, when broken down to its roots, is cost. You don't feel as though the cost is justified, as such you propose a solution which reduces the cost to the player. Reducing the cost to the player usually means reducing the revenue/income to Arenanet.

    Unless you can show that a system is absolutely dysfunctional or there is an absolute benefit to Arenanet, why should they willingly take a cut to their revenue/income?

    A possible solution would be:
    A.) Visual sets, aka entire sets which you can "save" and when changing a character to this look, you get to save 1-3 transmutation charges (say an entire look consists of 6 armor pieces, then you get to transmute exactly to that look for 4). This puts new limitations in place, yet allows people who often change appearance to swap between appearances at less cost.

    B.) A different approach could be an optional visual monthly fee (maybe even in form of a consumable item which can be traded on the TP). A sort of subscription which costs X per month, but allows all transmutation to happen without transmutation charge cost during that period of time (either per account or character). Again, this would have to be calculated based on how much expected additional revenue this might generate (from people using the feature versus people who buy tons of transmutation charges).

    It's a give and take. Don't expect changes on revenue generating items from Arenanet without giving something back.

    Your suggestion was along those lines, but the 10 transmutation charges per skin would be far to cheap if permanent.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭

    Well, the ticket would work per skin, so I wonder how cheap it really is when you'd need to use six tickets (60 charges) just to have a look you can apply while levelling a single character, without weapons.

    Depending on the habits of a persons that wants to change their fashion more frequently, they probably want to unlock many skins so they can change freely between them, so that would lead to a high demand of charges.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Unless you can show that a system is absolutely dysfunctional or there is an absolute benefit to Arenanet, why should they willingly take a cut to their revenue/income?

    For a levelling character whose gears don't last more than 10 levels, I'd say one must be absolutely mad to think of wasting transmutation charges while levelling. I wonder what else is needed to show that the current system is dysfunctional for such case scenarios?

    As long as the price is set right, this shouldn't cause a loss to ANet's income. As long as it's bothersome enough to accumulate charges, there will be an incentive to outright buy them.

    In another thread, someone mentioned the psychological barrier that prevents a player from using up their charges (knowing they are limited and how quickly they get used when changing a whole look) and how this could be hurting the "fashion wars". A player being offered a chance to unlock and freely use all their favourite skins would incentive them to free all their favorite skins. If the TP price is high enough, they may as well just go to the gemstore and buy them.

    The idea is to cause an increase in demand for charges while giving an illusion of owning for free the skins (frankly, how many people will actually switch to a certain skin over 10 times to justify the price I proposed?).

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    One of the issues that come up every now and then is the cost of changing your looks and how it ties to the gemstore so that transmutation charges aren't going away.

    Currently, changing a piece of armor's skin costs a charge, regardless, which makes changing your look a total no-go for characters that are levelling (players suggest you stick to outfits because of this).

    I was wondering, what if there were an option in the wardrobe to "free" a skin, so that this specific skin no longer costs charges when being applied. This would, of course, have a cost. It could be a "wardrobe freedom ticket" which could cost.... let's say, 10 transmutation charges.

    Is that too high? Then make those freedom tickets tradeable in the TP. I hear some players are drowning in charges and would love a way to make money out of that. Combine that with those players who love making alts and would love even more no longer worrying about charges for your levelling characters, and you've got a market.

    Depending on how the market balances out, it's possible it wouldn't remove at all the demand for charges.

    It could also result in a rebalancing of acquisition so that current prices are reduced in addition to increased gem cost.

    Meanwhile looking at the play time of my most played character I've spent about 1.5% of the time at below level 80 and 98.5% at 80. That is assuming I am leveling slowly with the 1 hour per level rate which is below reality so at the point it is probably already below 1% and that will only decrease.

    That only real argument to be made about leveling is retention but a new account won't have many skins unlocked anyway so the primary beneficiary of this would be new players who happens to really like the starting armor and dislike the others that they get. That seems incredibly niche.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    That only real argument to be made about leveling is retention but a new account won't have many skins unlocked anyway so the primary beneficiary of this would be new players who happens to really like the starting armor and dislike the others that they get. That seems incredibly niche.

    or they could just remove charge cost for sub 80 gear.... reminds of how at launch the charges we have now were meant for sub 80 content while they had gemstore exclusive transmutation crystals to change level 80 gear... pretty much against fashion wars, that was. D:

    Well, the other group that would benefit are people who have a few select skins they really like, as they would be able to freely change between them as they please, after paying the price to free said skins.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    Well, the ticket would work per skin, so I wonder how cheap it really is when you'd need to use six tickets (60 charges) just to have a look you can apply while levelling a single character, without weapons.

    Depending on the habits of a persons that wants to change their fashion more frequently, they probably want to unlock many skins so they can change freely between them, so that would lead to a high demand of charges.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Unless you can show that a system is absolutely dysfunctional or there is an absolute benefit to Arenanet, why should they willingly take a cut to their revenue/income?

    For a levelling character whose gears don't last more than 10 levels, I'd say one must be absolutely mad to think of wasting transmutation charges while levelling. I wonder what else is needed to show that the current system is dysfunctional for such case scenarios?

    As long as the price is set right, this shouldn't cause a loss to ANet's income. As long as it's bothersome enough to accumulate charges, there will be an incentive to outright buy them.

    In another thread, someone mentioned the psychological barrier that prevents a player from using up their charges (knowing they are limited and how quickly they get used when changing a whole look) and how this could be hurting the "fashion wars". A player being offered a chance to unlock and freely use all their favourite skins would incentive them to free all their favorite skins. If the TP price is high enough, they may as well just go to the gemstore and buy them.

    The idea is to cause an increase in demand for charges while giving an illusion of owning for free the skins (frankly, how many people will actually switch to a certain skin over 10 times to justify the price I proposed?).

    60 charges is nothing. Theres ppl that have thousands through casual play, not focusing on farming them.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    Well, the ticket would work per skin, so I wonder how cheap it really is when you'd need to use six tickets (60 charges) just to have a look you can apply while levelling a single character, without weapons.

    Depending on the habits of a persons that wants to change their fashion more frequently, they probably want to unlock many skins so they can change freely between them, so that would lead to a high demand of charges.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Unless you can show that a system is absolutely dysfunctional or there is an absolute benefit to Arenanet, why should they willingly take a cut to their revenue/income?

    For a levelling character whose gears don't last more than 10 levels, I'd say one must be absolutely mad to think of wasting transmutation charges while levelling. I wonder what else is needed to show that the current system is dysfunctional for such case scenarios?

    As long as the price is set right, this shouldn't cause a loss to ANet's income. As long as it's bothersome enough to accumulate charges, there will be an incentive to outright buy them.

    In another thread, someone mentioned the psychological barrier that prevents a player from using up their charges (knowing they are limited and how quickly they get used when changing a whole look) and how this could be hurting the "fashion wars". A player being offered a chance to unlock and freely use all their favourite skins would incentive them to free all their favorite skins. If the TP price is high enough, they may as well just go to the gemstore and buy them.

    The idea is to cause an increase in demand for charges while giving an illusion of owning for free the skins (frankly, how many people will actually switch to a certain skin over 10 times to justify the price I proposed?).

    60 charges is nothing. Theres ppl that have thousands through casual play, not focusing on farming them.

    so because there are some ppl with so many charges, it's excused while millions barely have some left at all?
    that's rich talking, only thinking of the few fortunate while ignoring the majority.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    Well, the ticket would work per skin, so I wonder how cheap it really is when you'd need to use six tickets (60 charges) just to have a look you can apply while levelling a single character, without weapons.

    Depending on the habits of a persons that wants to change their fashion more frequently, they probably want to unlock many skins so they can change freely between them, so that would lead to a high demand of charges.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Unless you can show that a system is absolutely dysfunctional or there is an absolute benefit to Arenanet, why should they willingly take a cut to their revenue/income?

    For a levelling character whose gears don't last more than 10 levels, I'd say one must be absolutely mad to think of wasting transmutation charges while levelling. I wonder what else is needed to show that the current system is dysfunctional for such case scenarios?

    As long as the price is set right, this shouldn't cause a loss to ANet's income. As long as it's bothersome enough to accumulate charges, there will be an incentive to outright buy them.

    In another thread, someone mentioned the psychological barrier that prevents a player from using up their charges (knowing they are limited and how quickly they get used when changing a whole look) and how this could be hurting the "fashion wars". A player being offered a chance to unlock and freely use all their favourite skins would incentive them to free all their favorite skins. If the TP price is high enough, they may as well just go to the gemstore and buy them.

    The idea is to cause an increase in demand for charges while giving an illusion of owning for free the skins (frankly, how many people will actually switch to a certain skin over 10 times to justify the price I proposed?).

    60 charges is nothing. Theres ppl that have thousands through casual play, not focusing on farming them.

    so because there are some ppl with so many charges, it's excused while millions barely have some left at all?
    that's rich talking, only thinking of the few fortunate while ignoring the majority.

    I dont do any of the content that gives them easily and i have enough to go by. Also please, do show me said millions that barely have any.

    The point of them is to early majorly from playing the contemt that provides them, even woth small amounts of play u can get far more than u will ever need.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    Well, the ticket would work per skin, so I wonder how cheap it really is when you'd need to use six tickets (60 charges) just to have a look you can apply while levelling a single character, without weapons.

    Depending on the habits of a persons that wants to change their fashion more frequently, they probably want to unlock many skins so they can change freely between them, so that would lead to a high demand of charges.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Unless you can show that a system is absolutely dysfunctional or there is an absolute benefit to Arenanet, why should they willingly take a cut to their revenue/income?

    For a levelling character whose gears don't last more than 10 levels, I'd say one must be absolutely mad to think of wasting transmutation charges while levelling. I wonder what else is needed to show that the current system is dysfunctional for such case scenarios?

    As long as the price is set right, this shouldn't cause a loss to ANet's income. As long as it's bothersome enough to accumulate charges, there will be an incentive to outright buy them.

    In another thread, someone mentioned the psychological barrier that prevents a player from using up their charges (knowing they are limited and how quickly they get used when changing a whole look) and how this could be hurting the "fashion wars". A player being offered a chance to unlock and freely use all their favourite skins would incentive them to free all their favorite skins. If the TP price is high enough, they may as well just go to the gemstore and buy them.

    The idea is to cause an increase in demand for charges while giving an illusion of owning for free the skins (frankly, how many people will actually switch to a certain skin over 10 times to justify the price I proposed?).

    60 charges is nothing. Theres ppl that have thousands through casual play, not focusing on farming them.

    so because there are some ppl with so many charges, it's excused while millions barely have some left at all?
    that's rich talking, only thinking of the few fortunate while ignoring the majority.

    I dont do any of the content that gives them easily and i have enough to go by. Also please, do show me said millions that barely have any.

    There are people who have plenty of alts and would like to change their looks in perhaps, even a daily matter. Those kind of people are the type that'll never have enough.

    Sometimes I think of changing a character's look, but it takes me quite some convincing to do so since I have less than 10 charges.

    Once upon a time, when I didn't care about changing looks, I managed to reach around 120 charges.

    The point of them is to early majorly from playing the contemt that provides them, even woth small amounts of play u can get far more than u will ever need.

    if this were really so, then why does the store sell charges? Who are those meant for?

  • @Skotlex.7580 said:
    There are people who have plenty of alts and would like to change their looks in perhaps, even a daily matter. Those kind of people are the type that'll never have enough.

    Yes, and the system is set up so it's essentially free for everyone except that fraction of the community that "will never have enough."

    The point of them is to early majorly from playing the contemt that provides them, even woth small amounts of play u can get far more than u will ever need.

    if this were really so, then why does the store sell charges? Who are those meant for?

    It's meant for the people who can never get enough.
    That's how the gem shop was designed from the start: basics are included in the game; convenience, fashion, and other luxuries are sold in the gem shop.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    Well, the ticket would work per skin, so I wonder how cheap it really is when you'd need to use six tickets (60 charges) just to have a look you can apply while levelling a single character, without weapons.

    Depending on the habits of a persons that wants to change their fashion more frequently, they probably want to unlock many skins so they can change freely between them, so that would lead to a high demand of charges.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Unless you can show that a system is absolutely dysfunctional or there is an absolute benefit to Arenanet, why should they willingly take a cut to their revenue/income?

    For a levelling character whose gears don't last more than 10 levels, I'd say one must be absolutely mad to think of wasting transmutation charges while levelling. I wonder what else is needed to show that the current system is dysfunctional for such case scenarios?

    As long as the price is set right, this shouldn't cause a loss to ANet's income. As long as it's bothersome enough to accumulate charges, there will be an incentive to outright buy them.

    In another thread, someone mentioned the psychological barrier that prevents a player from using up their charges (knowing they are limited and how quickly they get used when changing a whole look) and how this could be hurting the "fashion wars". A player being offered a chance to unlock and freely use all their favourite skins would incentive them to free all their favorite skins. If the TP price is high enough, they may as well just go to the gemstore and buy them.

    The idea is to cause an increase in demand for charges while giving an illusion of owning for free the skins (frankly, how many people will actually switch to a certain skin over 10 times to justify the price I proposed?).

    60 charges is nothing. Theres ppl that have thousands through casual play, not focusing on farming them.

    so because there are some ppl with so many charges, it's excused while millions barely have some left at all?
    that's rich talking, only thinking of the few fortunate while ignoring the majority.

    I dont do any of the content that gives them easily and i have enough to go by. Also please, do show me said millions that barely have any.

    There are people who have plenty of alts and would like to change their looks in perhaps, even a daily matter. Those kind of people are the type that'll never have enough.

    Sometimes I think of changing a character's look, but it takes me quite some convincing to do so since I have less than 10 charges.

    Once upon a time, when I didn't care about changing looks, I managed to reach around 120 charges.

    The point of them is to early majorly from playing the contemt that provides them, even woth small amounts of play u can get far more than u will ever need.

    if this were really so, then why does the store sell charges? Who are those meant for?

    The people who dont play much but still want to change their looks.
    Or people like you who want to change them daily.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    if this were really so, then why does the store sell charges? Who are those meant for?

    The people who dont play much but still want to change their looks.
    Or people like you who want to change them daily.

    Just a clarification, I don't want to change them daily, I just know there are others who'd like to.

    The topic to remove transmutation charges comes up every now and then, which makes me think there could be improvements made to the system, without actually invalidating them as a source of sales for ANet.

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    There are people who have plenty of alts and would like to change their looks in perhaps, even a daily matter. Those kind of people are the type that'll never have enough.

    Yes, and the system is set up so it's essentially free for everyone except that fraction of the community that "will never have enough."

    I wonder how accurate this statement is. One could also say that people just don't change more often than they can afford to, because they really don't want to pay up for charges. As such, people are adjusting their demand to the free supply, to what could be the detriment of the fashion industry, so to speak.

    A change that could tie into the market would also benefit those people who have excess charges so they can get something more useful out of it. Granted, I think the only thing you can get from the gem store and can be sold on the TP are the random prizes from bltc chests, so I guess the chance of this wardrobe suggestion making it to the TP section will be null. Perhaps the closest we'll get is ANet selling "wardrobe freedom" tickets to get the same utility.

    Isn't there some site where we can get statistics from linked GW2 accounts? I would like to run a query that could show just how many charges players have in average... because I am pretty sure "casual players" don't have hundreds of them. :P

  • Can only seeing this being ok'd by Anet if the Free wardrobe tickets cost 1000 transmutation charges each lol.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2019

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    There are people who have plenty of alts and would like to change their looks in perhaps, even a daily matter. Those kind of people are the type that'll never have enough.

    Yes, and the system is set up so it's essentially free for everyone except that fraction of the community that "will never have enough."

    I wonder how accurate this statement is. One could also say that people just don't change more often than they can afford to, because they really don't want to pay up for charges. As such, people are adjusting their demand to the free supply, to what could be the detriment of the fashion industry, so to speak.

    Unlikely or the system would have seen changes by now. Evidence? The keyfarm change to allow 1 key per week from the initial personal story. While we could assume that the transmutation system might not be generating revenue, that would be very unlikely.

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    A change that could tie into the market would also benefit those people who have excess charges so they can get something more useful out of it.

    Which benefits the players but in no way benefits Arenanet (besides maybe happier players, which could be a factor but very hard to financially pinpoint). Allowing excess transmutation charges to get traded on the TP just opens up an avenue to share unused charges, which would directly reduce charges purchased. As is right now, excess charges on players who do not use them (or gain more than they use) are essentially not valued. This would change when they become trade able.

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    Isn't there some site where we can get statistics from linked GW2 accounts? I would like to run a query that could show just how many charges players have in average... because I am pretty sure "casual players" don't have hundreds of them. :P

    https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/statistics.transmutationCharges

    That is obviously only for registered accounts.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    Isn't there some site where we can get statistics from linked GW2 accounts? I would like to run a query that could show just how many charges players have in average... because I am pretty sure "casual players" don't have hundreds of them. :P

    https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/statistics.transmutationCharges

    That is obviously only for registered accounts.

    Thanks!

    well, generally speaking, registered accounts can be expected to be somewhat more savvy of the game, so for the average player, the numbers of charges should be even lower.

    The medium number of charges is ~50 for the registered population, which is quite low (or worse, ~20 for players with less than 500 hours of playtime).

    Even on average the playerbase has 138 charges, so... if a market were opened for trading charges as the OP suggests, well, we would have a shortage of charges pretty soon and people may start doing city runs to farm and sell charges. x_x

    And here I was thinking some people would set up the task to "free" up as much of their wardrobe as they can.

    anyway, it's unlikely ANet would directly mix the TP with the gem store, so if these vouchers became available (or some alternative with the same target functionality) it would remain on an account bound design. :(

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Holly molly the number 1 have alot of charges over so few hours
    1
    23,715
    Played for 3,169h

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Holly molly the number 1 have alot of charges over so few hours
    1
    23,715
    Played for 3,169h

    Might be a pure pvp or WvW player.

  • Etria.3642Etria.3642 Member ✭✭✭

    Or a whale that bought that many.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭

    @Etria.3642 said:
    Or a whale that bought that many.

    Must be a rich man's mentality: "oh.. it costs charges to change my looks? I don't want to have to worry about it. buys 32k charges" I don't think you can even buy that many on a single go... and wouldn't even a whale just stop after having a few hundred charges?

    Back to the topic, there are a few skins which have free application already, so the idea behind the OP could simplify the issue of how said skins are acquired and applied. It could be as simple as drawing a star on the upper right corner in the wardrobe entry.

  • Reanne.5462Reanne.5462 Member ✭✭
    edited February 12, 2019

    I think, giving me a way to trade my surplus of charges to someone who wants them, is a good idea. What do the fashionistas have a surplus of, that I might want?
    Maybe a skin, they don't want anymore - charges for consignments - I ll give you 100 charges for your chaos axe skin, or something like that.

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Really its an issue of playing different game modes. In pve you earn far more money than wvw or pvp, but both wvw and pvp get you loads of trans charges. So for pve you just have to buy them with your extra gold (or do more map completion).

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

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