nerf boonbeast when you nerf mirage — Guild Wars 2 Forums

nerf boonbeast when you nerf mirage

both these spectaculars are nasty nasty nasty

<1

Comments

  • Kumouta.4985Kumouta.4985 Member ✭✭✭

    mirage is just a tad more overtuned

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    If you tone down soulbeast then even holo will need more nerfs. Siamoth plasma change is all we need to tune soulbeast.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    If you tone down soulbeast then even holo will need more nerfs. Siamoth plasma change is all we need to tune soulbeast.

    Nerfing boonbeast and condi mirage burst damage is needed, the problem is people don't realise holo has 2-3 builds that would easily excel in that environment and that's even after they've had a hefty damage nerf in PvP. It'll be even worse in WvW.

    Yep, holo has a lot more variety than people recognize.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Chorazin.4107Chorazin.4107 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    They both need tuned down,holo included

    Yeah lets not forget the holo's sustain on a non-healing amulet. Its fine if they want to do that much damage, but they gotta blow as quickly.

    The problem is the sustain comes from other traitlines(Alchemy) and skill slots(Elixir S, Elixir C). If you nerf the other traitlines that hurts base engi and scrapper which are both poor atm, same if you nerf Elixir S and Elixir C.

    And this is part of the core problem with holo vs scrapper atm. I honestly do not notice any difference in survivability between the two given same stat sets. But the DPS of holo is in a different ball park compared to Scrapper.

    The Shock shield and Adaptive armour vs holo leap. I think I would take the leap because of the crazy 2sec CD, this skill is amazing for kiting around the general melee and away from dmg. It would be a 70-30 split between how often I use this for distance/mobility compared to offense.

    [lion] - [tRex] - [nâh]

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    They both need tuned down,holo included

    Yeah lets not forget the holo's sustain on a non-healing amulet. Its fine if they want to do that much damage, but they gotta blow as quickly.

    The problem is the sustain comes from other traitlines(Alchemy) and skill slots(Elixir S, Elixir C). If you nerf the other traitlines that hurts base engi and scrapper which are both poor atm, same if you nerf Elixir S and Elixir C.

    And this is part of the core problem with holo vs scrapper atm. I honestly do not notice any difference in survivability between the two given same stat sets. But the DPS of holo is in a different ball park compared to Scrapper.

    The Shock shield and Adaptive armour vs holo leap. I think I would take the leap because of the crazy 2sec CD, this skill is amazing for kiting around the general melee and away from dmg. It would be a 70-30 split between how often I use this for distance/mobility compared to offense.

    A fair chunk of the healing also comes from Heat Therapy (a minor trait), it's nearly a 1k heal with Thermal Release Valve and can give a 6k heal for going from 90-100% heat all the way back to 0. In the current build heat therapy and the ability to combo a water field at will because Holo Leap is on a spammable 2s CD are two of the biggest offenders for it's healing capabilities in a damage spec.

    I would personally increase the range on Holo Leap to move you actually 600 range and increase the CD to at least 6s. One change I was thinking of was reduce the healing of Heat Therapy and then increase Compounding Chemicals healing coefficient so 560 healing power should put you back up to the same sustain. Then you have to choose, if you want sustain you need healing power.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heat_Therapy
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thermal_Release_Valve
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vent_Exhaust
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Compounding_Chemicals

    those are great suggestions, and do sort of address the issue.

    I think Anet needs to adopt the same balance decisions they took with eles with the rest of the cast:

    _Low base value on damage and healing skills, high scaling coefficient. _

    That is one of the reasons why eles can only do one or the other; the way their scaling was done is that amulets dictate what you can, or cannot do. Want to do damage as holo? Fine, equip a maruader/berserker amulet and go crazy, but expect someone to blow you up as quickly. Want to be a little more sustainy? Go mender/cele/sage , lose some power, but gain some sustain. Eles have to pick, so should everyone else, thats a good start to balance.

    You're asking for unbiased balance.....easier to win the lottery...the latter may actually happen

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:
    Funny enough ,nobody care here for soulbeast and anything else. All want mirage to get deleted :lol:

    I dunno man
    I'd say most of P3-Leg players know that Soulbeast is the stronger spec. Mirage has a slight edge in straight up 1v1, but the fact that Soulbeast can do 1vX much better in higher tiers and performs better in teamfights is undeniable. Mirage still feels worse to fight though. A build with evadespam and condis both is never going to be fun to fight regardless of which profession it's tied to.

    Both need to be hammered down into the ground with nerfs until they are beneath Renegade and Berserker.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2019

    @Aktium.9506 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    Funny enough ,nobody care here for soulbeast and anything else. All want mirage to get deleted :lol:

    I dunno man
    I'd say most of P3-Leg players know that Soulbeast is the stronger spec. Mirage has a slight edge in straight up 1v1, but the fact that Soulbeast can do 1vX much better in higher tiers and performs better in teamfights is undeniable. Mirage still feels worse to fight though. A build with evadespam and condis both is never going to be fun to fight regardless of which profession it's tied to.

    Both need to be hammered down into the ground with nerfs until they are beneath Renegade and Berserker.

    One of the best ways to deal with condi mirage is to swap all torment from mirage abilities to bleeds which will increase the ramp up time a fair bit while reducing it's ability to punish you for trying to kite.

    Additionally you can look at changing the distribution of conditions to be more equal between mirage and clones but I think swapping torment to bleeds would sort out the issue for the most part. In PvE you would almost double all the bleed stacks applied.

    Scepter would need adjusting too, but at this point I think it needs a rework.

    Edit: To clarify what I mean by double the bleed stacks for PvE I mean if lingering thoughts became 3 bleeds you would need to skill split it to be 6 bleeds for PvE otherwise mirage would become a useless spec in all PvE as it's currently it's effectiveness is through torment on moving targets.

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:
    One of the best ways to deal with condi mirage is to swap all torment from mirage abilities to bleeds which will increase the ramp up time a fair bit while reducing it's ability to punish you for trying to kite.

    Additionally you can look at changing the distribution of conditions to be more equal between mirage and clones but I think swapping torment to bleeds would sort out the issue for the most part. In PvE you would almost double all the bleed stacks applied.

    Scepter would need adjusting too, but at this point I think it needs a rework.

    Edit: To clarify what I mean by double the bleed stacks for PvE I mean if lingering thoughts became 3 bleeds you would need to skill split it to be 6 bleeds for PvE otherwise mirage would become a useless spec in all PvE as it's currently it's effectiveness is through torment on moving targets.

    Torment into bleeds would be a nice change. I would like to see Confusion get fixed so it doesn't trigger skill activation damage before cleanse as well. Today it's Mesmer, could be in a year or two it's Ele or Necro putting big stacks of Confusion on people and getting chunked for using your condi cleanse on Confusion is still going to feel really bad.

  • there are plenty of good ideas on the forums. balancing would be super easy if anet took off the gloves and got serious.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2019

    @Odik.4587 said:
    Funny enough ,nobody care here for soulbeast and anything else. All want mirage to get deleted :lol:

    Because it takes skills to get killed by a soulbeast ....too easy to kite and barely one skill to watch for which is a self-rooting obvious skill with a 25s CD, furthermore the average ranger is worth less than a badly programmed bot able to only wasd, if you get killed by a ranger..it's because the player beyond is several times better..my humble opinion

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chorazin.4107 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    They both need tuned down,holo included

    Yeah lets not forget the holo's sustain on a non-healing amulet. Its fine if they want to do that much damage, but they gotta blow as quickly.

    The problem is the sustain comes from other traitlines(Alchemy) and skill slots(Elixir S, Elixir C). If you nerf the other traitlines that hurts base engi and scrapper which are both poor atm, same if you nerf Elixir S and Elixir C.

    And this is part of the core problem with holo vs scrapper atm. I honestly do not notice any difference in survivability between the two given same stat sets. But the DPS of holo is in a different ball park compared to Scrapper.

    The Shock shield and Adaptive armour vs holo leap. I think I would take the leap because of the crazy 2sec CD, this skill is amazing for kiting around the general melee and away from dmg. It would be a 70-30 split between how often I use this for distance/mobility compared to offense.

    FA weaver was a problem because of stupid burst. They nerfed air traitline. :wink:

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    Funny enough ,nobody care here for soulbeast and anything else. All want mirage to get deleted :lol:

    Because it takes skills to get killed by a soulbeast ....too easy to kite and barely one skill to watch for which is a self-rooting obvious skill with a 25s CD, furthermore the average ranger is worth less than a badly programmed bot able to only wasd, if you get killed by a ranger..it's because the player beyond is several times better..my humble opinion

    I can say exactly the same about average mesmer. You wont stop cry because of that , right ?

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Seems like everybody agrees on elefication of main offenders. I'm picturing mirage/holo/boonbeast parents telling tales about turning into ele if their kids don't behave.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Seems like everybody agrees on elefication of main offenders. I'm picturing mirage/holo/boonbeast parents telling tales about turning into ele if their kids don't behave.

    Better include revs in that list as they're one of if not the best roaming +1 atm....

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Seems like everybody agrees on elefication of main offenders. I'm picturing mirage/holo/boonbeast parents telling tales about turning into ele if their kids don't behave.

    Better include revs in that list as they're one of if not the best roaming +1 atm....

    Either you continued the joke and I dont get it or you missed the joke.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Seems like everybody agrees on elefication of main offenders. I'm picturing mirage/holo/boonbeast parents telling tales about turning into ele if their kids don't behave.

    Better include revs in that list as they're one of if not the best roaming +1 atm....

    Either you continued the joke and I dont get it or you missed the joke.

    Rev mains cry like little babies over any nerf, they're kinda like the little brother of the oh kitten I'm having to explain it FeelsWeirdMan.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Seems like everybody agrees on elefication of main offenders. I'm picturing mirage/holo/boonbeast parents telling tales about turning into ele if their kids don't behave.

    Better include revs in that list as they're one of if not the best roaming +1 atm....

    Either you continued the joke and I dont get it or you missed the joke.

    Rev mains cry like little babies over any nerf, they're kinda like the little brother of the oh kitten I'm having to explain it FeelsWeirdMan.

    ah I see yea I missed that joke, think its time for my coffee lol

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Seems like everybody agrees on elefication of main offenders. I'm picturing mirage/holo/boonbeast parents telling tales about turning into ele if their kids don't behave.

    Better include revs in that list as they're one of if not the best roaming +1 atm....

    Either you continued the joke and I dont get it or you missed the joke.

    Rev mains cry like little babies over any nerf, they're kinda like the little brother of the oh kitten I'm having to explain it FeelsWeirdMan.

    It's pretty funny. One skill's cast time goes from 0.5 seconds to 1.0 seconds and revs act like they got completely obliterated.

    Remember what happened when a few berserker skills went from 0.5 seconds to 0.75 second cast times? There were other factors that lead to the fall of berserker but rev has lost sustain since POF too and considering the class has had 1 viable build that performs a fairly specific role for since season 2 and has fallen out viability for prolonged periods of time twice, we had reason for concern. BTW sword 4 is now barely higher DPS than straight auto attacks now and is a DPS loss if it cleaves 2 or more targets since it splits damage. The only reasons it is still worth using is that it has a bit longer range than melee, that you can precast it during an enemies i-frame so it hits right as they become vulnerable again, and that it is tied to sword offhand where sword 5 is still much better than what axe or shield offer. Now sword 4 is like all the old rev "burst" skills where you are better off just auto attacking for max damage unless you can't for some reason. But hey rev is still viable for being able to win fights by outnumbering their opponent, that's too op.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Seems like everybody agrees on elefication of main offenders. I'm picturing mirage/holo/boonbeast parents telling tales about turning into ele if their kids don't behave.

    Better include revs in that list as they're one of if not the best roaming +1 atm....

    Either you continued the joke and I dont get it or you missed the joke.

    Rev mains cry like little babies over any nerf, they're kinda like the little brother of the oh kitten I'm having to explain it FeelsWeirdMan.

    It's pretty funny. One skill's cast time goes from 0.5 seconds to 1.0 seconds and revs act like they got completely obliterated.

    In pve they did which is what most sane Rev player was arguing. In pvp it’s a fine change as it still baits dodges early on activation.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Seems like everybody agrees on elefication of main offenders. I'm picturing mirage/holo/boonbeast parents telling tales about turning into ele if their kids don't behave.

    Better include revs in that list as they're one of if not the best roaming +1 atm....

    Either you continued the joke and I dont get it or you missed the joke.

    Rev mains cry like little babies over any nerf, they're kinda like the little brother of the oh kitten I'm having to explain it FeelsWeirdMan.

    It's pretty funny. One skill's cast time goes from 0.5 seconds to 1.0 seconds and revs act like they got completely obliterated.

    Remember what happened when a few berserker skills went from 0.5 seconds to 0.75 second cast times? There were other factors that lead to the fall of berserker but rev has lost sustain since POF too and considering the class has had 1 viable build that performs a fairly specific role for since season 2 and has fallen out viability for prolonged periods of time twice, we had reason for concern. BTW sword 4 is now barely higher DPS than straight auto attacks now and is a DPS loss if it cleaves 2 or more targets since it splits damage. The only reasons it is still worth using is that it has a bit longer range than melee, that you can precast it during an enemies i-frame so it hits right as they become vulnerable again, and that it is tied to sword offhand where sword 5 is still much better than what axe or shield offer. Now sword 4 is like all the old rev "burst" skills where you are better off just auto attacking for max damage unless you can't for some reason. But hey rev is still viable for being able to win fights by outnumbering their opponent, that's too op.

    So what you're saying is nerf sword autos then? Couldn't agree more!

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Seems like everybody agrees on elefication of main offenders. I'm picturing mirage/holo/boonbeast parents telling tales about turning into ele if their kids don't behave.

    Better include revs in that list as they're one of if not the best roaming +1 atm....

    Either you continued the joke and I dont get it or you missed the joke.

    Rev mains cry like little babies over any nerf, they're kinda like the little brother of the oh kitten I'm having to explain it FeelsWeirdMan.

    It's pretty funny. One skill's cast time goes from 0.5 seconds to 1.0 seconds and revs act like they got completely obliterated.

    In pve they did which is what most sane Rev player was arguing. In pvp it’s a fine change as it still baits dodges early on activation.

    In PvE power is always supposed to under perform condition on longer engagements. And renegade is in a better spot last patch than it ever has been before with the capability to do heavy heavy condition damage as well as a viable power dps support that pumps out alacrity to the entire raid with literally one push of a button. I wouldn't exactly call that "Rev obliterated in PvE."

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Seems like everybody agrees on elefication of main offenders. I'm picturing mirage/holo/boonbeast parents telling tales about turning into ele if their kids don't behave.

    Better include revs in that list as they're one of if not the best roaming +1 atm....

    Either you continued the joke and I dont get it or you missed the joke.

    Rev mains cry like little babies over any nerf, they're kinda like the little brother of the oh kitten I'm having to explain it FeelsWeirdMan.

    It's pretty funny. One skill's cast time goes from 0.5 seconds to 1.0 seconds and revs act like they got completely obliterated.

    In pve they did which is what most sane Rev player was arguing. In pvp it’s a fine change as it still baits dodges early on activation.

    In PvE power is always supposed to under perform condition on longer engagements. And renegade is in a better spot last patch than it ever has been before with the capability to do heavy heavy condition damage as well as a viable power dps support that pumps out alacrity to the entire raid with literally one push of a button. I wouldn't exactly call that "Rev obliterated in PvE."

    In context, power herald was wiped off the map. That's really the point of the comments about shackling wave nerf as you're not taking it for condi rev so... ? And Alacrity Renegade is used exactly for that along with SS elite. You're there for the group support mainly and any damage is a huge step up from say, a druid. Point being, shackling wave increasing 100% in its cast time moved out power herald and with the introduction of diviners, moved in alacrity renegade.

    I find alacrity renegade pretty fun and having SS keep the group topped off with rolling alacrity. Coming from playing chronomancer, it's a little refreshing.

  • Abazigal.3679Abazigal.3679 Member ✭✭✭

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    Unfortunately the ranger community is insistent the soulbeast is fine and needs buffs if anything.

    Mirage can never be balanced without just outright deleting Mirage Cloak. I said EM wasn't the issue - MC is - and everyone disagreed. Look where we are. Unfortunately ANet will never do that because that'd actually be a design change.

    Half of why Holo is so overtuned is boon spam and is heavily influenced by the concentration stat, and a good chunk of why it's OP in WvW is it runs dodge foods which procs TRV 50% more often letting it combo with its non-nerfed numbers over and over. Unfortunately the community also insists dodge food is fine and balanced because it's only "a few seconds less per dodge."

    I've pushed the idea that these professions - and stealth stacking on DE - are bad of give way too much reward for their very low skill requirements/risk for what I'm pretty sure is longer than a year now. Nobody will admit these builds are overly-effective for how easy they are or are just downright OP for the real culprits. ANet doesn't want to promote a fun PvP experience and I don't think this community at large does, either. I doubt anything will change.

    At some point, i doubt you can adjust anything to be honest, which is probably why they function into nerfing 1 build and buffing an other. PoF specializations are mostly all OP, and if anything could be done, it would be revamping core and HoT builds since you cannot delete PoF.

    What's pretty annoying is when you play with core guards and core thieves and get rolled by scourges soulbeasts and mirages, who do not seem to do much effort.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2019

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    both these spectaculars are nasty nasty nasty

    Nerf Mesmer; Don't even think about it!!- until redesign / re-work but Ranger Boon Beast; most certainly Yes

  • @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    Unfortunately the ranger community is insistent the soulbeast is fine and needs buffs if anything.

    Mirage can never be balanced without just outright deleting Mirage Cloak. I said EM wasn't the issue - MC is - and everyone disagreed. Look where we are. Unfortunately ANet will never do that because that'd actually be a design change.

    Half of why Holo is so overtuned is boon spam and is heavily influenced by the concentration stat, and a good chunk of why it's OP in WvW is it runs dodge foods which procs TRV 50% more often letting it combo with its non-nerfed numbers over and over. Unfortunately the community also insists dodge food is fine and balanced because it's only "a few seconds less per dodge."

    I've pushed the idea that these professions - and stealth stacking on DE - are bad of give way too much reward for their very low skill requirements/risk for what I'm pretty sure is longer than a year now. Nobody will admit these builds are overly-effective for how easy they are or are just downright OP for the real culprits. ANet doesn't want to promote a fun PvP experience and I don't think this community at large does, either. I doubt anything will change.

    maybe you should be balance president instead

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    vote for me for balance president
    I have all the answers people

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    Unfortunately the ranger community is insistent the soulbeast is fine and needs buffs if anything.

    Mirage can never be balanced without just outright deleting Mirage Cloak. I said EM wasn't the issue - MC is - and everyone disagreed. Look where we are. Unfortunately ANet will never do that because that'd actually be a design change.

    Half of why Holo is so overtuned is boon spam and is heavily influenced by the concentration stat, and a good chunk of why it's OP in WvW is it runs dodge foods which procs TRV 50% more often letting it combo with its non-nerfed numbers over and over. Unfortunately the community also insists dodge food is fine and balanced because it's only "a few seconds less per dodge."

    I've pushed the idea that these professions - and stealth stacking on DE - are bad of give way too much reward for their very low skill requirements/risk for what I'm pretty sure is longer than a year now. Nobody will admit these builds are overly-effective for how easy they are or are just downright OP for the real culprits. ANet doesn't want to promote a fun PvP experience and I don't think this community at large does, either. I doubt anything will change.

    maybe you should be balance president instead

    Already giving up? Thought we were going to have some cool elections...

  • The very best pvp conquest build is s/d core theif and was buffed to deal with pof specs. Umm what?

  • incisorr.9502incisorr.9502 Member ✭✭✭

    why would you nerf mirage which is already underperforming?

    gw2's community is so ridiculously spoiled, instead of learning how to play you go to the forum and whine about perfectly okay class with counterplay possible (unlike a certain other classes which barely get mentioned cause most of you can't even get out of platinum1 which is not the game's fault by the way) until anet gives into the peer pressure and nerfs it

    mirage = no representation in tournaments
    = trash in wvw cus condi is trash in wvw
    = not the best 1v1 class
    = requires insane amount of skill on high level, that's why good mirages kill easily and bad ones fail spectacularly
    = is cute and fluffy and fair

  • @shinta.8906 said:
    ugh even the visuals got nerfed hard on ele..

    feelsbadman

  • @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    They both need tuned down,holo included

    Yeah lets not forget the holo's sustain on a non-healing amulet. Its fine if they want to do that much damage, but they gotta blow as quickly.

    The problem is the sustain comes from other traitlines(Alchemy) and skill slots(Elixir S, Elixir C). If you nerf the other traitlines that hurts base engi and scrapper which are both poor atm, same if you nerf Elixir S and Elixir C.

    And this is part of the core problem with holo vs scrapper atm. I honestly do not notice any difference in survivability between the two given same stat sets. But the DPS of holo is in a different ball park compared to Scrapper.

    The Shock shield and Adaptive armour vs holo leap. I think I would take the leap because of the crazy 2sec CD, this skill is amazing for kiting around the general melee and away from dmg. It would be a 70-30 split between how often I use this for distance/mobility compared to offense.

    FA weaver was a problem because of stupid burst. They nerfed air traitline. :wink:

    how long did that take them to nerf?

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2019

    Mirage is more annoying because of the condi spam, soulbeast does physical damage which is much easier to counter and less frustrating to experience
    not being able to do anything because of 20 stacks of confusion and 20 stacks of torment on you is frustrating. at the same time you can not do much damage back because the mirage is doging or invuln most of the time

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cicada.6298 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    They both need tuned down,holo included

    Yeah lets not forget the holo's sustain on a non-healing amulet. Its fine if they want to do that much damage, but they gotta blow as quickly.

    The problem is the sustain comes from other traitlines(Alchemy) and skill slots(Elixir S, Elixir C). If you nerf the other traitlines that hurts base engi and scrapper which are both poor atm, same if you nerf Elixir S and Elixir C.

    And this is part of the core problem with holo vs scrapper atm. I honestly do not notice any difference in survivability between the two given same stat sets. But the DPS of holo is in a different ball park compared to Scrapper.

    The Shock shield and Adaptive armour vs holo leap. I think I would take the leap because of the crazy 2sec CD, this skill is amazing for kiting around the general melee and away from dmg. It would be a 70-30 split between how often I use this for distance/mobility compared to offense.

    FA weaver was a problem because of stupid burst. They nerfed air traitline. :wink:

    how long did that take them to nerf?

    Less than 2 seasons I believe..or it was 3?! Anyway not only the build was rather hard to pull off but got also obliterated in no time

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Abazigal.3679Abazigal.3679 Member ✭✭✭

    @incisorr.9502 said:
    why would you nerf mirage which is already underperforming?

    gw2's community is so ridiculously spoiled, instead of learning how to play you go to the forum and whine about perfectly okay class with counterplay possible (unlike a certain other classes which barely get mentioned cause most of you can't even get out of platinum1 which is not the game's fault by the way) until anet gives into the peer pressure and nerfs it

    Thing is it does require a lot of effort to beat a team of mirages and scourges, even more in a 5v5 vision. Alternatively, i'm not sure it does require a lot of effort for the team of mirages and scourges to win.
    I've already went into details about this in many posts, I would simply advice you to give a whole season in gold division, you will probably get the point of many players. Not OP build and not that you can't get out of gold, but too frustrating and boring when you have to face these over and over.

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