nerf boonbeast when you nerf mirage

both these spectaculars are nasty nasty nasty

Funny enough ,nobody care here for soulbeast and anything else. All want mirage to get deleted :lol:

mirage is just a tad more overtuned

They both need tuned down,holo included

@Odik.4587 said:Funny enough ,nobody care here for soulbeast and anything else. All want mirage to get deleted :lol:

Boonbeast is strong but Mirage is strong AND annoying.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:They both need tuned down,holo included

Yeah lets not forget the holo's sustain on a non-healing amulet. Its fine if they want to do that much damage, but they gotta blow as quickly.

Also while we are at it, buff eles damage but nerf the upfronted damage from FA builds, give them means to dish RELIABLY the damage a little more over time without blowing to a stiff breeze, and please for the love of the six do not do it by buffing healing, we do not need more self-healing point-stall troll builds.

I don’t play ele but iirc in the early days they were among top dps. It seems a shame that there underperforming right now cuz arenet did a good job on the visuals etc of all their skills,must have been a lot of work

ugh even the visuals got nerfed hard on ele..

If you tone down soulbeast then even holo will need more nerfs. Siamoth plasma change is all we need to tune soulbeast.

@BadMed.3846 said:If you tone down soulbeast then even holo will need more nerfs. Siamoth plasma change is all we need to tune soulbeast.

Nerfing boonbeast and condi mirage burst damage is needed, the problem is people don't realise holo has 2-3 builds that would easily excel in that environment and that's even after they've had a hefty damage nerf in PvP. It'll be even worse in WvW.

@apharma.3741 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:If you tone down soulbeast then even holo will need more nerfs. Siamoth plasma change is all we need to tune soulbeast.

Yep, holo has a lot more variety than people recognize.

@Fortus.6175 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:They both need tuned down,holo included

The problem is the sustain comes from other traitlines(Alchemy) and skill slots(Elixir S, Elixir C). If you nerf the other traitlines that hurts base engi and scrapper which are both poor atm, same if you nerf Elixir S and Elixir C.

And this is part of the core problem with holo vs scrapper atm. I honestly do not notice any difference in survivability between the two given same stat sets. But the DPS of holo is in a different ball park compared to Scrapper.

The Shock shield and Adaptive armour vs holo leap. I think I would take the leap because of the crazy 2sec CD, this skill is amazing for kiting around the general melee and away from dmg. It would be a 70-30 split between how often I use this for distance/mobility compared to offense.

@Chorazin.4107 said:

@Fortus.6175 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:They both need tuned down,holo included

A fair chunk of the healing also comes from Heat Therapy (a minor trait), it's nearly a 1k heal with Thermal Release Valve and can give a 6k heal for going from 90-100% heat all the way back to 0. In the current build heat therapy and the ability to combo a water field at will because Holo Leap is on a spammable 2s CD are two of the biggest offenders for it's healing capabilities in a damage spec.

I would personally increase the range on Holo Leap to move you actually 600 range and increase the CD to at least 6s. One change I was thinking of was reduce the healing of Heat Therapy and then increase Compounding Chemicals healing coefficient so 560 healing power should put you back up to the same sustain. Then you have to choose, if you want sustain you need healing power.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heat_Therapyhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thermal_Release_Valvehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vent_Exhausthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Compounding_Chemicals

Holo simply needs damage reduction across Holo mode skills. It's needed if boonbeast is touched. Mirage needs nerfs irrespectively.

@apharma.3741 said:

@Chorazin.4107 said:

@Fortus.6175 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:They both need tuned down,holo included

those are great suggestions, and do sort of address the issue.

I think Anet needs to adopt the same balance decisions they took with eles with the rest of the cast:

Low base value on damage and healing skills, high scaling coefficient.

That is one of the reasons why eles can only do one or the other; the way their scaling was done is that amulets dictate what you can, or cannot do. Want to do damage as holo? Fine, equip a maruader/berserker amulet and go crazy, but expect someone to blow you up as quickly. Want to be a little more sustainy? Go mender/cele/sage , lose some power, but gain some sustain. Eles have to pick, so should everyone else, thats a good start to balance.

The problem with mirage, boonbeast and holo is the stupid balance between damage and sustain.

For example if someone plays fresh air ele you can oneshot people, but you get oneshotted as well because you are so damn squishy.

Those 3 builds have high burst damage very similar to being oneshot with crazy stupid sustain.

You can afford 10 mistakes before actually dying.

That's why even a monkey can abuse one of those specs to climb ranks, they are simply too forgiving to use.

Make them more high risk and you really see the good and the bad players based on skill level.

@Fortus.6175 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Chorazin.4107 said:

@Fortus.6175 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:They both need tuned down,holo included

You're asking for unbiased balance.....easier to win the lottery...the latter may actually happen

@Odik.4587 said:Funny enough ,nobody care here for soulbeast and anything else. All want mirage to get deleted :lol:I dunno manI'd say most of P3-Leg players know that Soulbeast is the stronger spec. Mirage has a slight edge in straight up 1v1, but the fact that Soulbeast can do 1vX much better in higher tiers and performs better in teamfights is undeniable. Mirage still feels worse to fight though. A build with evadespam and condis both is never going to be fun to fight regardless of which profession it's tied to.

Both need to be hammered down into the ground with nerfs until they are beneath Renegade and Berserker.

@Aktium.9506 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Funny enough ,nobody care here for soulbeast and anything else. All want mirage to get deleted :lol:I dunno manI'd say most of P3-Leg players know that Soulbeast is the stronger spec. Mirage has a slight edge in straight up 1v1, but the fact that Soulbeast can do 1vX much better in higher tiers and performs better in teamfights is undeniable. Mirage still feels worse to fight though. A build with evadespam and condis both is never going to be fun to fight regardless of which profession it's tied to.

One of the best ways to deal with condi mirage is to swap all torment from mirage abilities to bleeds which will increase the ramp up time a fair bit while reducing it's ability to punish you for trying to kite.

Additionally you can look at changing the distribution of conditions to be more equal between mirage and clones but I think swapping torment to bleeds would sort out the issue for the most part. In PvE you would almost double all the bleed stacks applied.

Scepter would need adjusting too, but at this point I think it needs a rework.

Edit: To clarify what I mean by double the bleed stacks for PvE I mean if lingering thoughts became 3 bleeds you would need to skill split it to be 6 bleeds for PvE otherwise mirage would become a useless spec in all PvE as it's currently it's effectiveness is through torment on moving targets.

@apharma.3741 said:One of the best ways to deal with condi mirage is to swap all torment from mirage abilities to bleeds which will increase the ramp up time a fair bit while reducing it's ability to punish you for trying to kite.

Additionally you can look at changing the distribution of conditions to be more equal between mirage and clones but I think swapping torment to bleeds would sort out the issue for the most part. In PvE you would almost double all the bleed stacks applied.

Scepter would need adjusting too, but at this point I think it needs a rework.

Edit: To clarify what I mean by double the bleed stacks for PvE I mean if lingering thoughts became 3 bleeds you would need to skill split it to be 6 bleeds for PvE otherwise mirage would become a useless spec in all PvE as it's currently it's effectiveness is through torment on moving targets.

Torment into bleeds would be a nice change. I would like to see Confusion get fixed so it doesn't trigger skill activation damage before cleanse as well. Today it's Mesmer, could be in a year or two it's Ele or Necro putting big stacks of Confusion on people and getting chunked for using your condi cleanse on Confusion is still going to feel really bad.

there are plenty of good ideas on the forums. balancing would be super easy if anet took off the gloves and got serious.

@Odik.4587 said:Funny enough ,nobody care here for soulbeast and anything else. All want mirage to get deleted :lol:

Because it takes skills to get killed by a soulbeast ....too easy to kite and barely one skill to watch for which is a self-rooting obvious skill with a 25s CD, furthermore the average ranger is worth less than a badly programmed bot able to only wasd, if you get killed by a ranger..it's because the player beyond is several times better..my humble opinion

@Chorazin.4107 said:

@Fortus.6175 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:They both need tuned down,holo included

FA weaver was a problem because of stupid burst. They nerfed air traitline. :wink:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Chorazin.4107 said:

@Fortus.6175 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:They both need tuned down,holo included

Ele is not meant to be viable or threatening outside PvE ( where you still need more skill than the rest)

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Funny enough ,nobody care here for soulbeast and anything else. All want mirage to get deleted :lol: