Keep getting kicked out of squada for being a thief/deadeye in wvw....

Second day trying to get into WvWvW again, since release year, my first day was pretty good, and then today I kept getting kicked out of the squads today because i'm a thief/deadeye....Is this normal or is my server just being dicks? like it doesn't make any sense because the squad isn't even close to maxing out. They just don't want me in there for being a thief/deadeye. Is this how it is now? It's no fun playing alone, but at the same time, I don't want to make another character because my deadeye is my main. :(

do they just kick you out or also tell you not to follow them?

deadeye doesnt need a squadslot. even if the squad is not full, being in it means you have a higher priority for support from the squad in terms of boons/heals etc., but you do not need them as much. when i decide to follow a squad with my deadeye, i usually also do not even try to get in, i can snipe the opposing commander or off position players just fine without it. that being said, a deadeye does excell in solo and chaotic smallscale fights. a daredevil is usually more accepted in squads as they do need the squads support to perform better, so if you have a staff with you, you may try that out a bit. (there is also a rather new guide in the thief profession forum for it)

oh and yes it is 'normal'

What most thieves/deadeye do is roam anywhere from 1-5 people disrupting and ticking off other players a good one does quite a bit of damage and are feared by many. Grouping up with a squad is not what they do. If you want to do that use another profession of course do some research

@Chyanne Waters.8719 said:What most thieves/deadeye do is roam anywhere from 1-5 people disrupting and ticking off other players a good one does quite a bit of damage and are feared by many. Grouping up with a squad is not what they do. If you want to do that use another profession of course do some research

There are no rules on how anyone should or shouldn't, must or mustn't.. it is simply just the squad leaders silliness. I would hazard a guess that same squad leader was crying out for people to join squad when no one was bothered.Every class has the ability to be good or bad because much of it comes down to the person behind the pixels.OP if out it continues to happen, simply don't join the squad, do your own thing or just follow the zerg train, and when it wipes just go stealth, get out of the way of the train wreck and /laugh in chat... or swap servers and go pick them off for fun and karma.

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Chyanne Waters.8719 said:What most thieves/deadeye do is roam anywhere from 1-5 people disrupting and ticking off other players a good one does quite a bit of damage and are feared by many. Grouping up with a squad is not what they do. If you want to do that use another profession of course do some research

The „ silliness“ is called common sense.The Squad Leaders job is not only to command the fight but also to create a zerg that had the highest possible win chance.

A Deadeye inside the squad is simply not worth much.

Outside he is gold worth ( the good ones atleast).

And no.Not every class has the potential to be usefull in Zerging.

At this point, even Weaver can be seen are borderline usefull.As it is just a second choice Scourge.

People need to except that not every class is good at everything.

Thief/Rangers make unbelievable good roamers.

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@"Chyanne Waters.8719" said:What most thieves/deadeye do is roam anywhere from 1-5 people disrupting and ticking off other players a good one does quite a bit of damage and are feared by many. Grouping up with a squad is not what they do. If you want to do that use another profession of course do some research

I think you misunderstand, it's not about how good you are with any particular class, it's about what you bring to the group. Comped squads are all about each class in a particular group synergizing with each other, as far as sharing boons, healing each other, big aoe damage, clearing condis, etc. Generally if you are on a comped class it is very hard to survive on your own without help from the others in your group. They need to be in the group, and on top of the commander, because a lot of abilities only share with the others in that group. Thieves don't need help surviving, and can't stay on the tag during pushes against larger groups, thus those boons, heals, condi clears, etc are being "wasted."

Now, I'm not saying thieves can't be put in their own sub-group in a squad, which is what most commanders do anyway, but I'm just pointing out the reason behind why a lot of commanders just don't take thieves into their groups. It's the same with rangers and engis (for the most part), so don't feel too bad.

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Chyanne Waters.8719 said:What most thieves/deadeye do is roam anywhere from 1-5 people disrupting and ticking off other players a good one does quite a bit of damage and are feared by many. Grouping up with a squad is not what they do. If you want to do that use another profession of course do some research

I main a deadeye.. have mained a thief in wvw since day 1..It comes down to how you build it, how you play it. Sure we are excellent roamers, but a rabblefest requires very little skill other than stay tight, do your dmg, dodge the circles and pressure the blob to force them to unload cleanses, heals and dodges early before reeking havoc... Then again intelligent zergs don't just run in regardless, a good thief will loiter on the backline and pick targets, often key targets, then when the opportunity arises a quick shadow step dmg spike and maybe a clusterbomb or shadowflare/binding shadow then back out. Not every player or class rushes in clueless just cos its a zerg. I would hazard a guess most good roamers know how to play their class and be more than just a number in any zergwar.

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Chyanne Waters.8719 said:What most thieves/deadeye do is roam anywhere from 1-5 people disrupting and ticking off other players a good one does quite a bit of damage and are feared by many. Grouping up with a squad is not what they do. If you want to do that use another profession of course do some research

you are still not getting the point and by this time, I´d say deliberately. What OP described is probably not even a hostile action against him.

@Algreg.3629 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Chyanne Waters.8719 said:What most thieves/deadeye do is roam anywhere from 1-5 people disrupting and ticking off other players a good one does quite a bit of damage and are feared by many. Grouping up with a squad is not what they do. If you want to do that use another profession of course do some research

Oh I got your point, I just disagree with it. We see all day tags shouting out for FB, necro's and whatever else they perceive meta to be, but when it comes down to a zergfest its just a numbers game.Organised squad fights will largely be guild runs, but large number squads is just that.. numbers.Sure the tag can do what they want, which is why I say don't run in squad stay out and run with it or yeah roam if you wish, but to say one class or another is of no use in wvw zergs is just rubbish.I still remember some of the tags on my server shouting out, open tag but only want hammer guards and ele's, without knowing why they wanted them, but other tags had shouted a need so it must be gospel and then cried when squad sizes were too small to even make a dent... fun times.By the way.. I never said I was a hostile act played on the OP, but then again a decent Comm seeking specific group organisation would likely not run with an open tag to avoid this very issue. If you run open and shout for joiners, your going to get whatever comes along seeking a Dorito to follow, good player or bad no matter what the class.

The position that any player should be booted for not playing a standard prof/build is ridiculous. It's based on the presumption that every slot in the squad is precious and that both sides in any encounter will each have a full squad, so evenly balanced that even a slightly less effective single player will cause inevitable loss. Absurd. Doesn't happen.

@MUDse.7623 said:oh and yes it is 'normal'

Normal implies universality, which is not accurate. Some, perhaps even 'many', commanders insist on Meta builds for squad/zergs, so they will reject/eject any thieves, along with Holos, non-Medi Scrappers, non SB Warriors, Renegades, Reapers, and any guardian not playing FIrebrand. Mesmers tend to get a pass because of portals, veil, gravity well/pulls, and because Mesmers get a free pass in GW2 all the time anyways ever (not bitter, I promise).

BUT, there are commanders who run open squads and will accept any profession, the only requirement being to stay on tag. Maybe I'm just uber lucky on my server - I dunno - but I'd say about 30% of the commanders who run open squads on my server will take anyone. The other 70%? Yeah, they go for meta builds.

But even out of the squad, you can play a vital role in fights, and you are ideally equipped to ambush and pick off enemy reinforcements as they run back to their tag during a fight. Any zerg DPS is likely full glass so they will be easy pickings for a DE.

they might let you in if youre a daredevil staff teef.

i play guard and stopped joining squads in wvw no need for that anyway to many wanna be commanders try to force ur build to what they "read" somewhere is right.

than the WVWer wondering why nobody want join the wvw mode and with less ppl doin so anet has less motivation to improve wvw...

win win i guess

You guys give me headaches with this continuous topic by diff. people every few weeks.Read up on previous forum post on this topic with the replies sigh...anyways gl in WvW and tip squirrel = find a havok grp/guild youll be loved alot more...i dont say no to deadeyes in my gangs havok raids.Cheers

You don't need to be in squad, just float around and make the fight easier for your side, just read the room so you don't mess up a squads stealth or whatever. You'd just end up in a group with rangers and other thieves anyway and you'll probably eventually start playing in and out sort of tethering anyway and you still get enough friendly stuff on you.

You don't bring anything useful to the squad.

That's not the same as not being useful to the group, mind you. Squads are more for proper boon sharing and directing of AOE bomb damage. Thief does not contribute to either, and doesn't need either to work the same.

What people fail to realize is that squad comps are mostly melee because boons have a short range. This is why deadeyes and rangers that pew pew don't need to be in a party; they aren't even going to benefit from it.

But then again, if you're on comms and don't immediately die, chances are people will sometimes make allowances for you. Daredevil would have a higher chance though. You still don't need a squad slot, but you can certainly run with them.

@Biff.5312 said:The position that any player should be booted for not playing a standard prof/build is ridiculous. It's based on the presumption that every slot in the squad is precious and that both sides in any encounter will each have a full squad, so evenly balanced that even a slightly less effective single player will cause inevitable loss. Absurd. Doesn't happen.

actually it does.

@"Biff.5312" said:The position that any player should be booted for not playing a standard prof/build is ridiculous. It's based on the presumption that every slot in the squad is precious and that both sides in any encounter will each have a full squad, so evenly balanced that even a slightly less effective single player will cause inevitable loss. Absurd. Doesn't happen.

1 player may not. Problem is it's never just 1 player. More like half the group is typically deadweight, and those might already be on meta classes. Which is why the baseline is "join x class". A really bad revenant will still do much better than a really bad ranger or base engi.

It's also about rule consistency. If you allow any class to join your squad, then you will literally get people playing "any class".

Basically, it's not that every dot is precious. It's more like one is hoping any of the dots is going to do anything besides die immediately.

@Biff.5312 said:The position that any player should be booted for not playing a standard prof/build is ridiculous. It's based on the presumption that every slot in the squad is precious and that both sides in any encounter will each have a full squad, so evenly balanced that even a slightly less effective single player will cause inevitable loss. Absurd. Doesn't happen.

Have fun playing without an optimal comp vs EU servers like RoS, WSR or Kodash and you see how precious these spots can be - oh I forgot! WvW is about flipping little towers and running head-first agains keep gates / running from enemy zergs so you can PPT in peace - the real fun in WvW!

@Squirrel.6318 said:Second day trying to get into WvWvW again, since release year, my first day was pretty good, and then today I kept getting kicked out of the squads today because i'm a thief/deadeye....Is this normal or is my server just being kitten? like it doesn't make any sense because the squad isn't even close to maxing out. They just don't want me in there for being a thief/deadeye. Is this how it is now? It's no fun playing alone, but at the same time, I don't want to make another character because my deadeye is my main. :(

You should try roaming. Deadeyes are one of the best roaming classes. Since they can stealth indefinitely at any time, it's almost impossible to actually lose a fight as a deadeye. If you can't win, just stealth away! But at the same time, pretty much nobody can escape from a fight with a deadeye unless they let you. That gives you a lot of control. On top of that, you can deal insane burst from stealth! It's a pretty complete package for roaming.

Get to know some other roamers from your server and team up! The great thing about deadeye in a pairing is that you can remain in stealth so the enemy doesn't know you're there (or at least doesn't know where you are!). Then you fade in with a timely burst they weren't expecting while they're focused on your teammate! I had a deadeye team up with me yesterday and we were able to harass and eventually take down much larger groups, at one point winning a 2v6 by picking them off one by one while repeatedly engaging/disengaging. It's a very frustrating spec to deal with and you can use that to force mistakes, especially from overconfident enemies.

But if you want to run with the zerg, just follow the squad and snipe. You don't actually need to be in the squad to do this.

Im usually running DD and my server is pretty accepting and almost every Zerg train I follow shortly sends an invite, I always decline to not take the spot cuz I’m all over the place lol just follow the Zerg train and use ur mobility to help ur allies by being a +1,revive others and spam weakening fields on enemy groups to make them easier to down for ur group. Been fun for me and atleast feel like I’m contributing. Bring lots of blue prints and supplies as well lol

You don't need to be in squad on a deadeye, I mean if you are playing it properly then a lot of the time you shouldn't even be near your squad you should be out flanking / behind the opposing zerg, so it is rather pointless being in a squad given that.

However that aside, a big part of the problem of classes not being wanted in squads is simply the balance is the most atrocious I have ever seen in a game. It is not uncommon for 80-90% of a 50 man squad to be made up of the same 3 elites (I don't even need to name them), 3 out of 18 elites, it is laughable and people wonder why WvW is dead. (and let's not even go into how dull the combat is with these three as the meta).

@Sylosi.6503 said:You don't need to be in squad on a deadeye, I mean if you are playing it properly then a lot of the time you shouldn't even be near your squad you should be out flanking / behind the opposing zerg, so it is rather pointless being in a squad given that.

However that aside the balance is the most atrocious I have ever seen in a game, it is not uncommon for 80-90% of a 50 man squad to be made up of the same 3 elites (I don't even need to name them), 3 out of 18 elites, it is laughable and people wonder why WvW is dead. (and let's not even go into how dull the combat is with these three as the meta).

I brought this up in state of wvw thread and got replies explaining to me that fb/scourges are fine and nothing needs to be done with them as all classes are designed to skill spam just as fb/scourge is so their fine and in no way overshadowing most other classes.

Make your own squad.