S/F lightning rod weaver WvW viability — Guild Wars 2 Forums

S/F lightning rod weaver WvW viability

Padd.1479Padd.1479 Member ✭✭
edited February 11, 2019 in Elementalist

Hey ele community. I am a WvW player, solo roamer 1v1 player and thief main.

I want to get some opinions on Sword/Focus lightning rod weaver with air/water/weaver traitlines, mostly marauder gear and some healing power pieces. I played it in the beginning of PoF since weaver sounded interesting and I felt like it being a balanced and viable playstyle.

Now, since I am bored of thief gameplay, I thought of giving weaver another try, but I feel like the mentioned build variation is non existing in the ele community, no current youtubers as well afaik.
the only build coming close to it is the burstier version of phantaram with arcane traitline instead of water where I don't see it being really better than water.

So my question is:
Why is practically no one playing s/f lightning rod (air/water/weaver) in WvW roaming scenarios and what is the current state of such builds?

Comments

  • shinta.8906shinta.8906 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2019

    cause dev team decided not to listen to the ele community and kept the global atunement on the current lvl which is to high. u need arc line for protection and esp global cd reduction.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shinta.8906 said:
    (...) u need arc line for protection and esp global cd reduction.

    This basically. Without protection, you would need to burst down your opponent before you get killed. You could sustain a little with focus, water will help you resustaining a bit (if you can kite) and survive longer against mirage. You might adjust your gear to counter some builds (offense countering scourges, defense countering... maybe non rifle thieves, guards?), but you will probably lose to many others.

    I am just talking from an academical perspective though, didn't play it with water so give it a shot and let us hear how it went. :smile:

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2019

    Specializing for Air indicates going for burst damage, since sustained damage for anything out of PvE, is nothing ele can manage to have because of how squishy they are and the lack of the tools that address that squishiness. Arcane allows you to have that short lived duel and help you have 2/3 shots at bursting down your opponent before things get worse. Water is for long duels as it provides sustain, but you won't be able to fully make use of Water line unless you attune to water a lot, because ele trait lines mostly do not function outside their respective element. If you have to attune for water a lot to sustain and make use of the line, then you lost the burst of Air, better pick Arcane over Air or vice versa (Arcane over Water). This would differ nothing than normal bunker weaver except you will have that burst that lasts 2-3s at the beginning before your sustain is inferior to the bunker build as you lack boons and constant faster rotation through attunements because as said: Global CD.

    Also having Fire/Water or Air/Water spec'd at the same time doesn't feel right, I don't know but it just isn't something I am used to or know of as ele.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Arkaile.5604Arkaile.5604 Member ✭✭✭

    @shinta.8906 said:
    u need arc line for protection and esp global cd reduction.

    But you can reduce attunement cds to 2sec with Weave Self and get all the prot you need from Unravel! Come on, guys, you just need to git gud. The team which made the decision to keep the global attunement cd at 4sec must have been drunk or something to think those two skills, which are a waste of utility slots, would make up for such a drawback without giving Weaver better sustain/defences without having to rely on a cheesy build.

    Something to keep in mind about a Lightning Rod weaver, and I may be wrong about this, is that trait only triggers when a target is disabled, which means anything with stability makes Lightning Rod almost completely worthless. If ele had reasonable access to boon rip, however...

    SHINIES!

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well my friend and I have played this build in a variety of stat combos and I've personally found that full marauder with scholar runes gives you a lot of damage and is fairly survivable. Add in barrier on dodge and vigor on dual skill and you can take arcane abatement for a bit more sustain however if you find vigor uptime is an issue take renewing stamina and you will have no issues.

    Here's a build to start you off, the damage isn't as high as it would be for what I personally run but it's much more tanky with room for mistakes but will still deal reliable damage. Also don't listen to those complaining about attunement swap CD, they haven't grasped the concept of elite specs changing the way you play.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsdncMAdOg9MA+4CM5ilGAr4QeFmC3Z6PdpWoCEAihA-j1xHQBLRpHDVC+PlBvT9HAcCA+megwt/AZAqGDA-w

    If you want a more high risk build try this:

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsdncMAdOg9MA+4CM5ilGAr4QeFmCCVgAQM8OT/pL1A-j1xHQBCRpXP2f4dq/wQlgA4EA8N9A/TZAZAqGDA-w

    You will have trouble with soulbeasts, condition mirages and holos but that's because they're completely overtuned in WvW. If you need more cleansing you can go cleansing sigil, antitoxin runes and never fear a condi mirage.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Its way too easy to clear the weakness for class as ele has no real cover condis like every other class in the game due to what few condis ele has being locked behind atuments.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • thank you all very much for your input. I get the bigger image now and see the main issues. I will try apharma's builds and hope I find my own playstyle on the road.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arkaile.5604 said:
    (...)
    Something to keep in mind about a Lightning Rod weaver, and I may be wrong about this, is that trait only triggers when a target is disabled, which means anything with stability makes Lightning Rod almost completely worthless. If ele had reasonable access to boon rip, however...

    Yepp, this is the case. :smile: Or, well: :disappointed:

    No, I think the trait is okay like this. Could use some more damage, maybe some CCs could be made more reliable (air 2 regularly fails with terrains, CDs on range issues and stuff), but it is fun!

    @OP: Go for it! Have fun!

  • Update:
    I played a variation of @apharma.3741s build over the last few days and was very successful with it! :) so thanks a lot for that!

    because i'm a thief main and missed the superior mobility i use runes of speed now with the 66% swiftness speed. it helps a lot when chasing enemies or disengaging. with sigil of cleansing as well i also dont struggle against condi pressure which is great cause i used the water traitline to have condi cleanse before.

    overall the build now has everything i need and actually a lot of sustain as well!

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsdncMA94idOA+MAM5ilGAr4QeFmCCVgAQM8OT/pL1A-jFyHABfrH4d1foTJ4RKhaZ/BAeAA/r8R5TAAZAqGDA-w

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Padd.1479 said:
    Update:
    I played a variation of @apharma.3741s build over the last few days and was very successful with it! :) so thanks a lot for that!

    because i'm a thief main and missed the superior mobility i use runes of speed now with the 66% swiftness speed. it helps a lot when chasing enemies or disengaging. with sigil of cleansing as well i also dont struggle against condi pressure which is great cause i used the water traitline to have condi cleanse before.

    overall the build now has everything i need and actually a lot of sustain as well!

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsdncMA94idOA+MAM5ilGAr4QeFmCCVgAQM8OT/pL1A-jFyHABfrH4d1foTJ4RKhaZ/BAeAA/r8R5TAAZAqGDA-w

    Glad you're enjoying it, takes some practise and you have to jump in, jump out but can be a lot of fun.

  • Padd.1479Padd.1479 Member ✭✭
    edited February 17, 2019

    another update:
    I can't kill power mirages... just too much kiting and evades of them as well as constant ranged GS pressure which isn't stoppable like projectiles :/

    And there are probably more builds out there that dominate me in a similar fashion.

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2019

    because eles suck in wvw roaming and is right down there in the trash tier along with necros no matter which build you play and balance team will nerf staff again next balance patch while giving shatterstone 0.5s extra duration of vuln but increase its cast time by 5s. Also, the Final Shielding trait gets reworked into increasing the pull distance of ele skills by 33% as part of the blanket changes to teach people the idea of good gameplay (i.e. non of that passive bs)

  • I used to play this spec since weaver release,it take so much nerf for no reason,the worst is the Stromsoul nerf,now you can be instagib by thief,great.
    Anet don't have a clue about balance,living story thu...

  • I prefer d/f. More range, more cc; Schocking aura, Katabatic Wind, Mud slide.
    I also take the sigil which steal 3 boons, very low ICD, it's good to remove protection or get some extra might/fury.

  • fuzzyp.6295fuzzyp.6295 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019

    As for your original topic of why no one runs Sword/Focus for Lightening Rod... I mean, why? Lightening Rod excels with interrupts. Sword has 1 (Air 2). Focus has 2 (Water 5, Air 5). Is that really worth building your entire build around? No, not really. If you want to take Air with Sword, both Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart feel better for damage. That's not to say you can't run it with other weapon sets though.

    I used to run a Scepter/Focus Weaver that focused on using Lightening Rod. It did decent damage with the stuns and it was a nice change of pace from Fresh Air. Damage wasn't as bursty, but it felt good. You have stuns on Scepter/Focus that could proc the ability but can also keep your distance unlike sword. And you could combo with a quick Tornado 5 for a powerful lightening rod proc that most people never saw coming. It felt really good.

    The nerd to Tempest Defense however just kinda.. killed it for me. That extra Shocking Aura helped a lot in the sustain and damage of it. I think Lightening Rod right now just isn't worth making the focus on your build. If you have high damage, Fresh Air is just overall better. The extra damage Lightening Rod pops out just doesn't really feel worth it anymore since you can burst people down faster with FA.

    Lightening Rod on D/D Weaver is also fun. Lots of interrupts there too! Unfortunately, Weaver D/D is clunky and you almost certainly would need to take Water/Arcane/Weaver to be able to survive. If you run in a group it might be fun to try though!

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @fuzzyp.6295 said:
    As for your original topic of why no one runs Sword/Focus for Lightening Rod... I mean, why? Lightening Rod excels with interrupts. Sword has 1 (Air 2). Focus has 2 (Water 5, Air 5). Is that really worth building your entire build around? No, not really. If you want to take Air with Sword, both Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart feel better for damage. That's not to say you can't run it with other weapon sets though.

    I used to run a Scepter/Focus Weaver that focused on using Lightening Rod. It did decent damage with the stuns and it was a nice change of pace from Fresh Air. Damage wasn't as bursty, but it felt good. You have stuns on Scepter/Focus that could proc the ability but can also keep your distance unlike sword. And you could combo with a quick Tornado 5 for a powerful lightening rod proc that most people never saw coming. It felt really good.

    The nerd to Tempest Defense however just kinda.. killed it for me. That extra Shocking Aura helped a lot in the sustain and damage of it. I think Lightening Rod right now just isn't worth making the focus on your build. If you have high damage, Fresh Air is just overall better. The extra damage Lightening Rod pops out just doesn't really feel worth it anymore since you can burst people down faster with FA.

    Lightening Rod on D/D Weaver is also fun. Lots of interrupts there too! Unfortunately, Weaver D/D is clunky and you almost certainly would need to take Water/Arcane/Weaver to be able to survive. If you run in a group it might be fun to try though!

    Sword has 2 interrupts actually. Air 2 (8s cd traited if i remember) and Air/Earth 3 (18s cd but hard to land).
    I prefer LR on SW/D though because you can chain damaging combos faster and the interrupts are AoE. But you're more vulnerable to kiting and ranged pressure. DD is nice too but more clunky, and gap closers locked behind double attuning. And without water you melt easily to any condi build. So much trade offs for being an ele...

  • fuzzyp.6295fuzzyp.6295 Member ✭✭✭

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    Sword has 2 interrupts actually. Air 2 (8s cd traited if i remember) and Air/Earth 3 (18s cd but hard to land).
    I prefer LR on SW/D though because you can chain damaging combos faster and the interrupts are AoE. But you're more vulnerable to kiting and ranged pressure. DD is nice too but more clunky, and gap closers locked behind double attuning. And without water you melt easily to any condi build. So much trade offs for being an ele...

    You're right I completely forgot about Air/Earth 3, I guess that shows how often I hit people with it. I did once get an angry whisper from someone asking how in the world an Ele was able to "float" him without Weave Self. Haha.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @fuzzyp.6295 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    Sword has 2 interrupts actually. Air 2 (8s cd traited if i remember) and Air/Earth 3 (18s cd but hard to land).
    I prefer LR on SW/D though because you can chain damaging combos faster and the interrupts are AoE. But you're more vulnerable to kiting and ranged pressure. DD is nice too but more clunky, and gap closers locked behind double attuning. And without water you melt easily to any condi build. So much trade offs for being an ele...

    You're right I completely forgot about Air/Earth 3, I guess that shows how often I hit people with it. I did once get an angry whisper from someone asking how in the world an Ele was able to "float" him without Weave Self. Haha.

    I like to air/earth 3 followed by tailored victory. It's so pretty and hard to pull off, and yet 0 reward. Too bad they don't take fall damage.

  • MoriMoriMori.5349MoriMoriMori.5349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2019

    edited
    edited

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Padd.1479 said:
    another update:
    I can't kill power mirages... just too much kiting and evades of them as well as constant ranged GS pressure which isn't stoppable like projectiles :/

    And there are probably more builds out there that dominate me in a similar fashion.

    Yeah anything that can kite at range is a hard fight, for best results run with someone who can pressure them. If you can't do that then try to fight where there's plenty of LoS. Mesmer will shut you down on the non tanky sword weaver builds but tanky weavers can largely ignore mesmers.

  • But hey it was definetly necessary to stop skills like water/earth 3 from being cast while kiting and not facing your target .-.

  • Helicity.3416Helicity.3416 Member ✭✭✭

    I really tried to like sword, but the damage just isn't really there with lightning rod compared to something like scepter fresh air :(

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭

    It's not the same build, not the same equipment. One is "hit and RUUUUUN" the other asks you to be able to tank a little and keep melee pressure.

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