Looking for build feedback (Celestial Renegade for WvW Roaming)

There's 2 builds i've used for the past few months, core condi Revenant and power Renegade. I'm trying to merge them into one hybrid Renegade build.

Currently i've made it into a full Celestial build. (Never thought i'd use this stat combo again.)

• Template uses Rune of Surging, in-game it's Rune of Fireworks for the movement speed buff. (They use the same stats but different bonus.)
• Add 5 stacks of Kalla's Favor for extra crit damage. (Base 192.6%, stacks: 209,72%)
• Add 15-25 Might stacks for general power range. (2076 base, might: 2500-2800 range) (Condi 700 base, might 1100-1400 range)
• Crit chance is ~35% base. ~68% at 100% endurance. Fury is traited 40%. An opening burst at 100% endurance will be overcapped >100% crit chance. Usual chance will be ~75%.

Stat spread:Power: 2092 base (up to 2842 with might.)Armor: 2910 (1639 Toughness)Health: 22312 (1639 Vitality)Crit Chance: 35,43% base (+40% fury, +33% at 100% endurance. >100% overcapped with both buffs.)Crit Damage: 192,6% base (209,27% with Kalla's Fervor.)Condition Damage: 709 base (up to 1459 with might.)Condition Duration: 0% base (Torment +20%, Poison +50%)Healing Power: 639Boon Duration: 15%

Condition management is taken care of through Ventari and traited Legend Swap transfer. Sustain is mostly handled through Ventari and a small bit of regeneration on evade. Damage is sort of 60/40 split between power and condition damage, the condition part supplements the power portion and helps keep enemy sustain in check through poison & torment. Mobility through Shiro utilities and Rune of Fireworks movement speed buff.

Specific feedback i'm looking for:

• On Weapons:Staff is pretty mandatory imo. I'm conflicted on Sw/Sw vs Sw/A. Offhand sword feels uncomfortable to me after the recent cast time increase, axe misses out on Deathstrike but has a solid AoE CC. I've tested shortbow previously, and it just wasn't up to par honestly.

• On Sigils:Hydromancy seemed like a no-brainer with Abyssal Chill, but i'm conflicted on the secondary sigils. Torment on staff vs Absorption to deal with boons. (Staff 5 + Ventari elite for interrupts.)Sigils i'm considering: Earth, low cooldown bleed cover condition. Blight, AoE poison 50% uptime. Torment, AoE damage. Air, more power damage.

• On Food:Went for generic power utilities and +power+condi food. Alternatives; +power/-10% dmg food (Makes a real impact in outnumbered fights.) +power+healing. Open to suggestions.

If you have any suggestions on the general stat spread/other aspects, that's also welcome!

I'm pretty set in stone on the legends, Shiro + Ventari. Mallyx/Kalla are alternatives to Ventari, but it's a legend i try to force in everything. The stat spread looks good to me on paper, i'll start testing it out soon. Will have to think about some damage combo's. :P

Thanks for sharing this Obelix.

I would go with Energy/Absorption on Staff + Hydro/Torment on Sw/Sw. The opening with Shiro off-hand sword is killer.Depending on might uptime, I would go with Spirit Boon instead of Incensed Response.Rest is fine looking to me. Definitely something I will try short term.

Good luck!

You might miss out on some fun if you give up on shortbow. I've got a similar build with some grieving stats mixed in and I've downed quite a few players by just auto-attacking.

@Kossuth.2168 Absorption will probably replace Torment. I'm not sure on Energy vs Hydromancy yet, i should have near perma vigor uptime. With off-hand sword i used to love phase traversal + shackling wave as opener but the cast time increase makes it a feel a bit wonky to me. I think i'll just try both sword and axe again and see what works.

Thanks :)

@Clownmug.8357 The AA is pretty solid, especially with Rampant Vex torment on crit added into the mix. As well as Impossible Odds / Kalla utilities with the fast attack rate. The issue for me is that the rest of the skills make me drop the weapon usually. #2 misses moving targets too often, #3 misses too often period. (I do like shooting it behind me while kiting away, good hit rate for all 7 projectiles.) Mabey i'll try it some more though. :P

Hmmm, interesting build, but I think you’re going to be disappointed with it in the end. You don’t have enough condi output sine you’re not using Malyx or SB or Mace.

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:Hmmm, interesting build, but I think you’re going to be disappointed with it in the end. You don’t have enough condi output sine you’re not using Malyx or SB or Mace.

Basically this, you have a pretty solid stat investment into Condi Damage, and the only condi damage you're getting is from your chill/poison and crit procs and I guess anything you transfer back.

Ventari seems like a wasted legend choice as well for what you're trying to do... The hybrid builds that are strong and work (cele weeber, hybrid druid/scourge/fb) do so because they can dish out steady, somewhat respectable damage via aa's and assorted condi applications, while being able to have more sustain than they probably should for that level of damage. Basically, they weigh the loss of dps from using a full dps build against the amount of survivability they're gaining and deem it worth it. The problem with Ventari and celestial stats is that when you're in Ventari, and even somewhat Shiro, you'll be putting out very little pressure.

Like, with what you're trying to do, it would honestly work better if you just went Zerker/Clerics or Minstrel mix or something, and dropped the Corruption line for Devastation. That way, at least when you're in Ventari heal mode, you're still putting out soooome damage? Because with celestial stats, swords/staff, and a 100% defensive legend, all those condi stats are pretty wasted.

Or, you should just drop Ventari for Mallyx. Mallyx's heal is actually pretty monster and scales really well with a little bit of healing power. UA's chill field provides a lot of steady damage reduction and condi application and BE is actually pretty good vs your typical roaming classes... Since you can just constantly confusion bomb away their boons.

I dunno, I'm not gonna say any of that would work, and it's definitely not as strong as a typical power herald roaming build... But, at least it has some elements of what works for other hybrid builds.

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 @narcx.3570

Just spent a couple of hours with the build in WvW yesterday. Condition output is indeed on the lower side for hybrid damage builds, primarily due to the fact that i use Ventari over Mallyx. :P

The total combined damage felt pretty decent though. Sounds silly but with full might this has the same amount of condition damage as my pure condition build, about 500 less power than a full power renegade build with 25 might. Rampant Vex + Chill Procs + Poison is obviously not as high as pure condi using Mallyx, but a combined 900-1900 damage tick + ~1400 confusion pops and lowering heal effectiveness with minimal investment is still pretty good, especially when you're also putting out solid power damage.

The benefit of not relying on utility skills for damage is that trait/sigil procs & weapon skills land much more reliably imo. (Excluding BE on Mallyx, that lands 90% of the time.) It's not as bursty as power herald and lacks some of the sustained damage of a pure condition build, but it takes a reasonable amount of both.

Ventari on a roaming build is a bit hard to explain to people, on paper it looks pretty trash for it i'll admit. I mostly use it for the elite skill (Knockback + Cleanse + the orbs healing ~1300 ea.), the rest of the skills provide some sustain/projectile hate while kiting basically. I will try Shiro/Mallyx & Mallyx/Ventari again as well in the next few days for fun's sake. But i don't think i'll have enough sustain using Mallyx without runes of torment/steadfast rejuvenation. IMO Mallyx requires you to be somewhat of a tank to get damage out, and most of the big damage requires targets to stand in fields / PBAoE range.

I have more experience playing Mallyx than Shiro honestly, and while UA Leap/Field is really good in outnumbered/team fights, outside of those you primarily use BE. (I usually use UA for kiting ,with the damage being a bonus.) BE is a great skill by the way, and pretty much what i miss playing this current build. Too many boons these days! (Saying this knowing i have perma might/fury/vigor :P)

Definitely gimping myself with something like this, but i don't really enjoy playing bursty builds anymore. Even when i lose it's nice when the fights last a bit longer or are more interesting than using the same combo over and over :-)

@WraithOfStealth.1624 said:@Lonewolf Kai.3682 @narcx.3570

Just spent a couple of hours with the build in WvW yesterday. Condition output is indeed on the lower side for hybrid damage builds, primarily due to the fact that i use Ventari over Mallyx. :P

The total combined damage felt pretty decent though. Sounds silly but with full might this has the same amount of condition damage as my pure condition build, about 500 less power than a full power renegade build with 25 might. Rampant Vex + Chill Procs + Poison is obviously not as high as pure condi using Mallyx, but a combined 900-1900 damage tick + ~1400 confusion pops and lowering heal effectiveness with minimal investment is still pretty good, especially when you're also putting out solid power damage.

The benefit of not relying on utility skills for damage is that trait/sigil procs & weapon skills land much more reliably imo. (Excluding BE on Mallyx, that lands 90% of the time.) It's not as bursty as power herald and lacks some of the sustained damage of a pure condition build, but it takes a reasonable amount of both.

Ventari on a roaming build is a bit hard to explain to people, on paper it looks pretty trash for it i'll admit. I mostly use it for the elite skill (Knockback + Cleanse + the orbs healing ~1300 ea.), the rest of the skills provide some sustain/projectile hate while kiting basically. I will try Shiro/Mallyx & Mallyx/Ventari again as well in the next few days for fun's sake. But i don't think i'll have enough sustain using Mallyx without runes of torment/steadfast rejuvenation. IMO Mallyx requires you to be somewhat of a tank to get damage out, and most of the big damage requires targets to stand in fields / PBAoE range.

I have more experience playing Mallyx than Shiro honestly, and while UA Leap/Field is really good in outnumbered/team fights, outside of those you primarily use BE. (I usually use UA for kiting ,with the damage being a bonus.) BE is a great skill by the way, and pretty much what i miss playing this current build. Too many boons these days! (Saying this knowing i have perma might/fury/vigor :P)

Definitely gimping myself with something like this, but i don't really enjoy playing bursty builds anymore. Even when i lose it's nice when the fights last a bit longer or are more interesting than using the same combo over and over :-)

Hmm, I’ll have to talk to you sometime about your methods. I use a more damage focused hybrid build myself and am not seeing quite the same condi numbers you are, and I have about 400 more in condi stats. I also use shortbow and Malyx so I’m a bit puzzled by your numbers.

As far as changing the build, I would try out a few things first. I think you’d be more happier with Malyx/Ventari rather than Shiro/Malyx since you’re one of the few who are comfortable with using it. I personally use S/M myself probably 60% of the time, but I also go from solo to group, to Zerg play quite a bit. I also change my legends frequently when with the Zerg or havoc group depending on what I am predicting will happen before a fight begins, like using Jalis for more tanking needs for example when taking a keep or tower. I just started recently using Ventari on occasion again because of the same reasons you do, for the Elite. I love throwing the tablet right into the middle of the enemy Zerg and causing a lot of interruptions. I still wish the tablet would follow and have a stun breaker though.

Nothing special really, i haven't played Shiro/Sword MH in a while so figuring out stuff as i go.

Sword 2 or 3 + Impossible odds gives out a lot of strikes that can potentially trigger rampant vex. + some chill>torment on Sword 2. Hydromancy/Torment sigil procs add some more low cooldown AoE torment as well. I'd say generally i'm at between 6-12 stacks, proccing about 1000-2000 torment ticks while moving.

I have some minor retaliation too, not 100% sure if those hits can proc rampant vex as well.[edit] nvm retal can't crit. :P