Is there another Expansion in the works? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Is there another Expansion in the works?

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  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    I don't understand what's so different about expansions vs Living Story/DLC. As far as I can see the only differences are an expansion is released all in one go and I have to pay extra for it. The storylines, maps, content etc. aren't fundamentally different. Silverwastes was a living story map and that's quite similar to the HoT maps with a map-wide meta event chain, lots of hidden things dotted around and even gave us a new armour set with two variants (carapace and luminescent).

    A lot of it is the content dump. PoF gave us 5 wide open maps and half a seasons worth of story all in one go. No drip feeding, no playing to their schedule. That is very attractive to many of us. The other point is the story flows better. Episodic content means a difference in consistency as different teams deliver different levels if quality - something we have seen with s3 and s4 now. Expansions tend remain consistently at the same level of quality throughout.

    Seasons drip feed. Sure we prob get more content, but it takes 18 months for that to appear in full. Sure we could get elite specs, but all at once in one episode?

    Personally id rather smaller seasons of larger content (say 3 episodes) that bridge expansions and give us a meatier amount to do in all areas of the game.

    The point of the flow of the story should not be understated. Lw simply cannot provide the same flow, it can and has in a number of cases killed feelings and momentum the players might have had going from one episode to the next. Expansions campaigns dont suffer from that.

    Totally agree. I've never found games the right medium for episodic storytelling as a result

    I feel like the only way gw2 could handle it remotely well would be a return to the se1 format where we had updates in a much faster cadence.

    Tho i dont see that ever happening.

  • @Vlad Morbius.1759 said:
    "Mike Zadorojny.7058 ArenaNet ›
    January 8, 2019
    We talked about wanting to release expansion level stories and features over the next couple years. Our goal is to create powerful moments like the final instance of this episode that are a culmination of multiple departments and raise the bar for what it means to be a Guild Wars 2 experience."

    The more i read this quote the more i'm beginning to think that once again LS is being staged to replace expansions which failed miserably in the past. I'm hoping i'm wrong on this because i distinctly remember reading there were multiple teams, some working on LS and some working on expansions, unfortunately i can't find that quote. Anyway without telling us the who, what, where , when and why can you (Anet) at least confirm there is another expansion being developed?

    It's radio silence on the matter. I also agree that if LWS5 are every 3 months it's FUBAR.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    I don't understand what's so different about expansions vs Living Story/DLC. As far as I can see the only differences are an expansion is released all in one go and I have to pay extra for it. The storylines, maps, content etc. aren't fundamentally different. Silverwastes was a living story map and that's quite similar to the HoT maps with a map-wide meta event chain, lots of hidden things dotted around and even gave us a new armour set with two variants (carapace and luminescent).

    9 elite lines
    Multiple armors
    Multiple maps
    New modes of gameplay (gliding/mounts)

    All at the same time. It would take more than a year to get some of the above and that is without the new elites that offer the most repliability.

    We are not getting a new expansion this year. I do not know if I will even be active in few month. The game is currently highly stagnant.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Mike says with the next LS u will get 9 elite spezialisations/ Gen 3 legendaries/ a bunch of new mounts/ Player housing/ Buildtemplates / and a new way to costumize ur charracter and that all for free!

    Players : what???? no expansion??? OMG noo why we need an expansion we want more content

    Mike : speechless

    Except this was not said (or I missed it and you might be so kind to provide a link), and if this much content would actually go into a Living World Episode, I doubt people would be unhappy. Given how none of the Living World Episodes EVER had this much content, that is wishful thinking.

    All we can do is wait and see. The only thing we know for sure is, there is a Season 5 coming after Season 4 and with the current release cadence, there won't be an expansion in 2019, and it might be tight for end of 2020 if at all.

    @Timo.1065 said:
    Look on PoF, the only thing useful you get buying this expansion are mounts.

    Yes, let's leave out the 5 maps, the couple of hours long story, the elite specializations, the mounts, the new armor set skins and all of it at once and not in 3 month cycles bit by bit...

    He only said something along the lines of: ‘it will have a bit more content than before, to make up for the expansion’.
    But we all know anets definition of ‘a bit’.
    Ts definetily not elite classes or player housing

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • bbop.9706bbop.9706 Member ✭✭✭

    People bashing PoF when it was the mount system that actually rejuvenated the game for most and made them want to explore the world again from a different perspective. This is what brought me back.

    Anet need something equally big to draw back lost players and attract new ones.

    Elite specs will do that. A new class might too. Morw LW story kitten will not.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @Healix.5819 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    There's reasons for anet to put more time between xpacs, there's no reason for them to cancel xpaxs

    GW1 Utopia was cancelled.

    and then they did eye of the north

    i said cancel xpacs, not cancel a xpac (there's a difference)

    and on top of that why would anet make a gw3? every reason i heard they could more easily do in gw2 then make an entirely new gam

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vegeta.2563 said:
    I think they are just trying to avoid adding in a 3rd set of elite specializations, hard enough to balance 3 specs per class (core, HoT, and PoF)..

    well they could just dodge that by insted adding new elite specs, introducing a new class with 3 specs. would be the better joice in my opinion.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @Vegeta.2563 said:
    I think they are just trying to avoid adding in a 3rd set of elite specializations, hard enough to balance 3 specs per class (core, HoT, and PoF)..

    well they could just dodge that by insted adding new elite specs, introducing a new class with 3 specs. would be the better joice in my opinion.

    that'd just create issues of it's own

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think the expansions were in fact successful. Sure, there's a lot of criticism but I see that as a given. What it does is add revenue during the quarter of release but more importantly for ArenaNet it also brings revenue up afterwards with increased spending at the gem store. This is clearly visible in the financial reports. Of course this week we got the latest and the Q4 results for 2018 were down by 25% so that's a big drop, however PoF did still manage to bring revenue back up considerably at least for a while. It did better than HoT in that respect.

    So what I wonder is if they chose to delay this expansion because revenues were that good. With LS5 coming first and presumably taking at least 4 chapters it will likely take till next year before we will see the next expansion. I do think there will be one because it increases revenue and interest and revitalized spending at the gem store. The only way I can see them not doing a next expansion is the announcement of a new game. We all know what that meant for GW1.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • Nemmar.8491Nemmar.8491 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    Expansions are very important for MMO's. They bring a lot of coverage and "box" sales from players that tend to buy these expansions for the event, go through it, some stay, some leave. It is the best way to bring people back to the game, and existing players only gain from that as well.

    Now, i will leave my impressions on what i think the problems are with GW2 and why in my opinion it is not a raving sucess.
    First, the good. The single player story/scenarios are quite frankly, amazing. The maps are a joy to explore. The outworld feels alive, even if not always populated.
    I love those aspects of the game and they do fill me with joy every time i play the game.

    But, i can never stay around too long. Why? Here are the issues i see, wich can be addressed within the current game.
    The achievement/tracking system instead of a quest system. It is hidden, messy, difficult to navigate and unclear. Actually, it's a problem at large with the game. Everything is complex and unclear. It is a huge deterrent.
    The horizontal progression. It just never worked the way it worked on GW1. GW1 was a different type of game. Every campaign was a new beginning and it ended in the same place. That is not the case in GW2. The game continues. So, at this point there is a need to have rewards for continuation. The current end-game design of GW2 is farming and collecting. This worked for GW1 due again, to the kind of game it was. The grinds weren't as bad since they were less and were a few per campaign. Nowadays, these are not enough incentive for players to keep playing. A new raid? A new dungeon? So what? What is the point? Why should i come back?
    Not only that, but ascended gear itself feels unrewarding. It is "mildly" difficult to acquire without a considerable time investment, but it still acts as a gate for end-game content. Then comes a patch that changes balance and now you need to grind another month to craft another set. No, this just does not keep players invested. The plus side of vertical progression is that is makes the previous gear easier to aquire and give you an objective for the next gear set. Motivation to run the new content and continue playing the game on top of all the cosmetic incentives.
    Also, must i mention how unfun it is to constantly mange inventory in this game?

    I would also add a recommendation. I know there are many players that flocked to GW cause its B2P/F2P. But that very nature and it's reliance on the cash shop is a deterrent for many other players who are not used to having their enjoyment of the game behind micro transactions and prefer just having a subscription with privileged access and without barriers. That is an idea as well. Not all of us are skint, and would just like to play a game that isn't sliced in a hundred little pieces with a price tag on it.

    Now, things i am unsure can be solved in GW2, and would probably require a GW3.
    The combat. It feels so unsatisfying. It feels loose, as does movement, but in a weird way, where it feels you might just fall through the ground at any moment. I think one just has to play GW1 to see how much tighter the combat was.
    The trinity. Honestly, it was a great sales pitch to say "we will break with the trinity", but i hope that by now it's become clear to everyone why the trinity works for cooperative MMO's in instanced content. It urges teamwork, with defined roles. GW2 is quite honestly a mess, and it comes from again, the combat and mechanics. The dodge mechanic and the downed mechanic that are so OP that player character have to be made out of thin paper. Everything kills you pretty easily. Being dead all the time is not really fun. Being one-shot constantly is not really fun. The whole thing is terribly unbalanced and just not fun. That is a major issue wich i believe deters more players from staying with the game.

    So, in conclusion. Yes, expansions are important to keep the game alive. Going only living world will just lead to a slow death as new players don't come in.
    A new game (GW3) would make sense in order to make a game that can retain players better. A retooling of GW2 would also work, but obviously is a major undertaking.

    I don't think GW3 is in the horizon anytime soon and i am afraid it will fall in the same traps GW2 did in trying to be different for different sake. There are conventions that work, and that is why they still persist. Trust that the GW IP is capable of delivering the differentiation without having to break with everything and creating a non-rewarding game. You got the story and exploration right. These are your strong points, now bring the rest up to par.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    The other thing about expansions is that they bring hype. Living World brings some hype, but it's quite low key and localised and the rest of the game gets no hype.
    I only have to visit twitter to see how other companies from indies to corporate hype what they are doing or working on. Nintendo is probably a bad example given they are a bit different in this context, but they caused huge positive ripples yesterday with their announcements, which then led to announcements by other associated companies. It gets people talking and excited

    What is ANet working on? What do I have to excited about? The last episode wasn't great and severely lacking in content so I'm not exactly positive about things anyway, but there is increasingly becoming nothing to grab onto to get excited about as Anet continue to hold onto everything like an MI6 secret. The excuse that players will jump on them for false promises is moot - this is the age of the internet and people will latch onto anything to hold against them. Many of us have to to suffer for years without news of forthcoming things because of this and seems grossly unfair.

    Lets get some positive news out there (what happened to little teasers to build up to a release???), lets see what (non spoilery) things we can get excited about and to kitten with anyone who wants to hold the company up for "false promises"

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • ^I'm not sure how many would agree with that assessment. My characters don't continually find themselves downed or one-shot, and I am clueless about builds, etc. Still, pretty much, using the same ones I started with. I'm not sure the 'trinity' is absolutely necessary for open-world or Story content, and that comprises a large portion of the game.

    Maybe all players are not "skint" [sic], but changing the payment model, which is a Guild Wars franchise pillar, would not necessarily bring in more players, and those it did bring in might not make up for all those who left.

    I think there were lamentations about Guild Wars before GW2, and now that game is looked back on fondly. If there ever was a Guild Wars 3, I imagine the same thing would happen...

    I'm unclear about any advantages to Vertical Progression, aka 'gear treadmill'. Would every single piece of content need down-leveling in such a case? Sounds like more work with little pay-off. Of course, I'm not a Game Developer.

  • Aplethoraof.2643Aplethoraof.2643 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    I don't understand what's so different about expansions vs Living Story/DLC. As far as I can see the only differences are an expansion is released all in one go and I have to pay extra for it. The storylines, maps, content etc. aren't fundamentally different. Silverwastes was a living story map and that's quite similar to the HoT maps with a map-wide meta event chain, lots of hidden things dotted around and even gave us a new armour set with two variants (carapace and luminescent).

    A lot of it is the content dump. PoF gave us 5 wide open maps and half a seasons worth of story all in one go. No drip feeding, no playing to their schedule. That is very attractive to many of us. The other point is the story flows better. Episodic content means a difference in consistency as different teams deliver different levels if quality - something we have seen with s3 and s4 now. Expansions tend remain consistently at the same level of quality throughout.

    Seasons drip feed. Sure we prob get more content, but it takes 18 months for that to appear in full. Sure we could get elite specs, but all at once in one episode?

    Personally id rather smaller seasons of larger content (say 3 episodes) that bridge expansions and give us a meatier amount to do in all areas of the game.

    The point of the flow of the story should not be understated. Lw simply cannot provide the same flow, it can and has in a number of cases killed feelings and momentum the players might have had going from one episode to the next. Expansions campaigns dont suffer from that.

    Totally agree. I've never found games the right medium for episodic storytelling as a result

    Yeah. Personally, I don't touch the living stories until the season is done. They tend to wrap up decently at-least.

    Do you want a balanced GW2? Then you are obliged to unironically agree with this suggestion!

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @Aplethoraof.2643 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    I don't understand what's so different about expansions vs Living Story/DLC. As far as I can see the only differences are an expansion is released all in one go and I have to pay extra for it. The storylines, maps, content etc. aren't fundamentally different. Silverwastes was a living story map and that's quite similar to the HoT maps with a map-wide meta event chain, lots of hidden things dotted around and even gave us a new armour set with two variants (carapace and luminescent).

    A lot of it is the content dump. PoF gave us 5 wide open maps and half a seasons worth of story all in one go. No drip feeding, no playing to their schedule. That is very attractive to many of us. The other point is the story flows better. Episodic content means a difference in consistency as different teams deliver different levels if quality - something we have seen with s3 and s4 now. Expansions tend remain consistently at the same level of quality throughout.

    Seasons drip feed. Sure we prob get more content, but it takes 18 months for that to appear in full. Sure we could get elite specs, but all at once in one episode?

    Personally id rather smaller seasons of larger content (say 3 episodes) that bridge expansions and give us a meatier amount to do in all areas of the game.

    The point of the flow of the story should not be understated. Lw simply cannot provide the same flow, it can and has in a number of cases killed feelings and momentum the players might have had going from one episode to the next. Expansions campaigns dont suffer from that.

    Totally agree. I've never found games the right medium for episodic storytelling as a result

    Yeah. Personally, I don't touch the living stories until the season is done. They tend to wrap up decently at-least.

    I've thought about doing it that way. I just know I'd never avoid spoilers

    Then again, I struggle to keep my attention with alts when I do it that way. I think it's just the formula

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Healix.5819Healix.5819 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:
    and then they did eye of the north

    i said cancel xpacs, not cancel a xpac (there's a difference)

    and on top of that why would anet make a gw3? every reason i heard they could more easily do in gw2 then make an entirely new gam

    Technically they wouldn't be "cancelling" all expansions if they never had any plans for them. EotN was created after they decided to stop, as a tie-in to GW2.

    As for GW3, it's very unlikely that ArenaNet's next project will be an MMO like GW2, but if it was, they would essentially be doing it for the same reason they made GW2 - it's holding them back. Something new also allows them to make changes that would be for the better, but too controversial.

  • Grim West.3194Grim West.3194 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    Expansions bring in a lot of revenue. So it makes sense they would be working on one. I hope so, PoF was a lot of fun, and HoT became really good over time. Love the exploring and new features, etc., that come with new expansions. And I personally really enjoyed PoF's story, it was very well done. A huge improvement over the base game's "click through as fast as you can" borefest.

    I just hope the new expansion doesn't have another elite. It's a real pain getting all of my toons upgraded, still have a couple of toons that haven't finished them. Just not fun to do the hero points over and over and over again, and it limits play options if you don't have them.

  • MokahTGS.7850MokahTGS.7850 Member ✭✭✭

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Mike says with the next LS u will get 9 elite spezialisations/ Gen 3 legendaries/ a bunch of new mounts/ Player housing/ Buildtemplates / and a new way to costumize ur charracter and that all for free!

    Was any of this actually said anywhere or were you being facetious?

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Mike says with the next LS u will get 9 elite spezialisations/ Gen 3 legendaries/ a bunch of new mounts/ Player housing/ Buildtemplates / and a new way to costumize ur charracter and that all for free!

    Players : what???? no expansion??? OMG noo why we need an expansion we want more content

    Mike : speechless

    To be fair, although I would not disparage something given freely, very little of what you've listed is of any interest to me. No thank you to new mounts, player housing, legendaries, or new customization. I dislike the power creep built into the elite spec system. Build templates, unless accompanied by free stat changing on all gear is of little use to me either.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the problem with the last two xpacts is the simple fact that, even after all what was made, all it truly got us is a way of fast and saver transportation.
    HoT doesn't really have anything more than allot of grind, added currency and a really lame end battle, leaving us with just gliders which is quite a cash cow for Anet.
    PoF has allot of nostalgia but not much to go for, in it's base sense it's simply a start to make the exact same mistake they made in HoT but now they have a bigger cash cow, mounts.

    what i am really hoping for is an xpac that has a big impact that draws allot of old and new guild wars fans but isn't yet more grinding, farming with extra new currencies and yet another cash cow.
    it might surprise ppl but it was handled better in guild wars, they released an expansion but kept everything within that place.
    they made plenty of exclusive stuff but it didn't affect the rest of the game, you can play the game without the xpac while adding allot of fun to the game if you bought it.

    so to round it up, it's better when an expansion pack adds something new but doesn't put anyone at a disadvantage when you don't own it, one that makes quite an impact but doesn't make it necessary.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    the problem with the last two xpacts is the simple fact that, even after all what was made, all it truly got us is a way of fast and saver transportation.
    HoT doesn't really have anything more than allot of grind, added currency and a really lame end battle, leaving us with just gliders which is quite a cash cow for Anet.
    PoF has allot of nostalgia but not much to go for, in it's base sense it's simply a start to make the exact same mistake they made in HoT but now they have a bigger cash cow, mounts.

    what i am really hoping for is an xpac that has a big impact that draws allot of old and new guild wars fans but isn't yet more grinding, farming with extra new currencies and yet another cash cow.
    it might surprise ppl but it was handled better in guild wars, they released an expansion but kept everything within that place.
    they made plenty of exclusive stuff but it didn't affect the rest of the game, you can play the game without the xpac while adding allot of fun to the game if you bought it.

    so to round it up, it's better when an expansion pack adds something new but doesn't put anyone at a disadvantage when you don't own it, one that makes quite an impact but doesn't make it necessary.

    You can play gw2 without the expansions just fine. In gw1 you were at a disadvantage without the expansions.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    the problem with the last two xpacts is the simple fact that, even after all what was made, all it truly got us is a way of fast and saver transportation.
    HoT doesn't really have anything more than allot of grind, added currency and a really lame end battle, leaving us with just gliders which is quite a cash cow for Anet.
    PoF has allot of nostalgia but not much to go for, in it's base sense it's simply a start to make the exact same mistake they made in HoT but now they have a bigger cash cow, mounts.

    what i am really hoping for is an xpac that has a big impact that draws allot of old and new guild wars fans but isn't yet more grinding, farming with extra new currencies and yet another cash cow.
    it might surprise ppl but it was handled better in guild wars, they released an expansion but kept everything within that place.
    they made plenty of exclusive stuff but it didn't affect the rest of the game, you can play the game without the xpac while adding allot of fun to the game if you bought it.

    so to round it up, it's better when an expansion pack adds something new but doesn't put anyone at a disadvantage when you don't own it, one that makes quite an impact but doesn't make it necessary.

    You can play gw2 without the expansions just fine. In gw1 you were at a disadvantage without the expansions.

    without HoT you'll die when falling from a high altitude, without PoF you'll be slower then anyone else and you can't kill enemies as fast.
    in GW you can get trough everything without any of the expansion stuff, there is absolutely nothing that truly gives you an advantage over ppl without EotN.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    the problem with the last two xpacts is the simple fact that, even after all what was made, all it truly got us is a way of fast and saver transportation.
    HoT doesn't really have anything more than allot of grind, added currency and a really lame end battle, leaving us with just gliders which is quite a cash cow for Anet.
    PoF has allot of nostalgia but not much to go for, in it's base sense it's simply a start to make the exact same mistake they made in HoT but now they have a bigger cash cow, mounts.

    what i am really hoping for is an xpac that has a big impact that draws allot of old and new guild wars fans but isn't yet more grinding, farming with extra new currencies and yet another cash cow.
    it might surprise ppl but it was handled better in guild wars, they released an expansion but kept everything within that place.
    they made plenty of exclusive stuff but it didn't affect the rest of the game, you can play the game without the xpac while adding allot of fun to the game if you bought it.

    so to round it up, it's better when an expansion pack adds something new but doesn't put anyone at a disadvantage when you don't own it, one that makes quite an impact but doesn't make it necessary.

    You can play gw2 without the expansions just fine. In gw1 you were at a disadvantage without the expansions.

    without HoT you'll die when falling from a high altitude, without PoF you'll be slower then anyone else and you can't kill enemies as fast.
    in GW you can get trough everything without any of the expansion stuff, there is absolutely nothing that truly gives you an advantage over ppl without EotN.

    Weird, I played gw2 for years without an expansion just fine.

    Access to expansion skills in gw1 gave significant performance advantages.

    Both games can be enjoyed just fine without expansions. Both games provide significant advantages for having the expansions.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    the problem with the last two xpacts is the simple fact that, even after all what was made, all it truly got us is a way of fast and saver transportation.
    HoT doesn't really have anything more than allot of grind, added currency and a really lame end battle, leaving us with just gliders which is quite a cash cow for Anet.
    PoF has allot of nostalgia but not much to go for, in it's base sense it's simply a start to make the exact same mistake they made in HoT but now they have a bigger cash cow, mounts.

    what i am really hoping for is an xpac that has a big impact that draws allot of old and new guild wars fans but isn't yet more grinding, farming with extra new currencies and yet another cash cow.
    it might surprise ppl but it was handled better in guild wars, they released an expansion but kept everything within that place.
    they made plenty of exclusive stuff but it didn't affect the rest of the game, you can play the game without the xpac while adding allot of fun to the game if you bought it.

    so to round it up, it's better when an expansion pack adds something new but doesn't put anyone at a disadvantage when you don't own it, one that makes quite an impact but doesn't make it necessary.

    You can play gw2 without the expansions just fine. In gw1 you were at a disadvantage without the expansions.

    without HoT you'll die when falling from a high altitude, without PoF you'll be slower then anyone else and you can't kill enemies as fast.
    in GW you can get trough everything without any of the expansion stuff, there is absolutely nothing that truly gives you an advantage over ppl without EotN.

    Weird, I played gw2 for years without an expansion just fine.

    Access to expansion skills in gw1 gave significant performance advantages.

    Both games can be enjoyed just fine without expansions. Both games provide significant advantages for having the expansions.

    .....i never said you can't enjoy it without expansion, i just said you have quite a big advantage with them.......just like you now argue about.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    the problem with the last two xpacts is the simple fact that, even after all what was made, all it truly got us is a way of fast and saver transportation.
    HoT doesn't really have anything more than allot of grind, added currency and a really lame end battle, leaving us with just gliders which is quite a cash cow for Anet.
    PoF has allot of nostalgia but not much to go for, in it's base sense it's simply a start to make the exact same mistake they made in HoT but now they have a bigger cash cow, mounts.

    what i am really hoping for is an xpac that has a big impact that draws allot of old and new guild wars fans but isn't yet more grinding, farming with extra new currencies and yet another cash co > > > > it might surprise ppl but it was handled better in guild wars, they released an expansion but kept everything within that place.
    they made plenty of exclusive stuff but it didn't affect the rest of the game, you can play the game without the xpac while adding allot of fun to the game if you bought it.

    so to round it up, it's better when an expansion pack adds something new but doesn't put anyone at a disadvantage when you don't own it, one that makes quite an impact but doesn't make it necessary.

    You can play gw2 without the expansions just fine. In gw1 you were at a disadvantage without the expansions.

    without HoT you'll die when falling from a high altitude, without PoF you'll be slower then anyone else and you can't kill enemies as fast.
    in GW you can get trough everything without any of the expansion stuff, there is absolutely nothing that truly gives you an advantage over ppl without EotN.

    Weird, I played gw2 for years without an expansion just fine.

    Access to expansion skills in gw1 gave significant performance advantages.

    Both games can be enjoyed just fine without expansions. Both games provide significant advantages for having the expansions.

    .....i never said you can't enjoy it without expansion, i just said you have quite a big advantage with them.......just like you now argue about.

    From my first post, which you quoted, the only thing I said about GW2 was that it could be played just fine without an expansion. You posted disagreement.

    Both games offer the ability to play the game just fine without expansions, and advantages for buying the expansions.

  • @Grim West.3194 said:
    I just hope the new expansion doesn't have another elite. It's a real pain getting all of my toons upgraded, still have a couple of toons that haven't finished them. Just not fun to do the hero points over and over and over again, and it limits play options if you don't have them.

    I disagree strongly. I have prepared over 15 characters for the next elite spec already. If there were no new elite specs I would not buy the next expansion unless it was only 10 Euro.

    PvP? What's that? Never heard of it.

  • You know i'm not complaining about the expansions i have for the most part enjoyed them. I had one purpose for making the topic and that was to get confirmation one was still in the works. Maybe it's me but there has been little to no community feedback on plans other than the occasional article in mmorpg.com etc. I was just looking for a fairly generic response, yes or no?

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vlad Morbius.1759 said:
    You know i'm not complaining about the expansions i have for the most part enjoyed them. I had one purpose for making the topic and that was to get confirmation one was still in the works. Maybe it's me but there has been little to no community feedback on plans other than the occasional article in mmorpg.com etc. I was just looking for a fairly generic response, yes or no?

    One hasnt been given. We will just have to keep waiting on an announcement, although given both last two came in the finale ofbthe preceeding season, we prob have a long wait until the secrets cabinet gets unlocked again

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @Vlad Morbius.1759 said:
    You know i'm not complaining about the expansions i have for the most part enjoyed them. I had one purpose for making the topic and that was to get confirmation one was still in the works. Maybe it's me but there has been little to no community feedback on plans other than the occasional article in mmorpg.com etc. I was just looking for a fairly generic response, yes or no?

    While I don't think it's an ideal approach, I think we can count on still getting them, just because some developments are just way too large to introduce as a LS feature. I'm also thinking that the way LS episodes are structured, Anet wouldn't want to exclude new customers from the features in LS that they provide as fundamental game mechanics in expansions.

    One thing that I think everyone can agree upon is that there is a large appetite for more especs; I don't see that being delivered in a LS or over a series of them. I do think it would be absolutely amazing to watch the evolution of your character as they learn a new espec through a LS season, but I don't think players have patience for that.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Nemmar.8491Nemmar.8491 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    ^I'm not sure how many would agree with that assessment. My characters don't continually find themselves downed or one-shot, and I am clueless about builds, etc. Still, pretty much, using the same ones I started with. I'm not sure the 'trinity' is absolutely necessary for open-world or Story content, and that comprises a large portion of the game.

    Maybe all players are not "skint" [sic], but changing the payment model, which is a Guild Wars franchise pillar, would not necessarily bring in more players, and those it did bring in might not make up for all those who left.

    I think there were lamentations about Guild Wars before GW2, and now that game is looked back on fondly. If there ever was a Guild Wars 3, I imagine the same thing would happen...

    I'm unclear about any advantages to Vertical Progression, aka 'gear treadmill'. Would every single piece of content need down-leveling in such a case? Sounds like more work with little pay-off. Of course, I'm not a Game Developer.

    Any boss event has lots of dead people. I'm constantly resing. This is how the game is balanced. I don't think it is so much open to interpretation as a fact. If you stand in front of a boss or in a red circle and get hit you will get 1 or 2 shot. This is because you can dodge and negate the whole damage. Obviously, if you are fighting a tiny mob out in the world it's not really representative. I'm sure it will still hurt if you don't dodge or heal a bit though.

    Anyways, i know that there are many long rooted GW fans that really have a hard time changing their ways. I know. I used to be one back in the day, but GW1 was a very different game from GW2 and the realities of the MMO space have changed. To hold on to old tropes (or misguided notions that it can break with mmo design just cause) is what is actually holding back GW2 from being better.
    I did say trinity is necessary for instanced content, not outworld. Don't think of it as only one profession can do one thing. This is up to class design. In GW1 you could really tank with any profession given the right build... or heal. Of course, some were more efficient than others.

    The sub option should not actually drive anyone away as the F2P players will still have the same options they do now. So, i don't know exactly why they would leave.

    As for looking fondly. Nostalgia will always be a factor on every game. You tend to remember the good times more than the bad ones.
    I can tell you though, that i don't have very many from GW2. The highlight has been the story missions. Some great work goes into those and i am always amazed at the boss encounters they make wich are on par with a raid boss encounters. But i remember almost every aspect of GW1 findly. This was because it was such a joy to play. The combat was amazing. Just things like random arena were a ton of fun as you adjusted to the meta of the moment. The elite missions, the story's themselves were far richer. Not to be funny, but while i enjoy GW2 story mode, it has done little more than burn through GW1 lore.

    The advantages of vertical progression is that your character grows in strength. You want to go into the next raid/dungeon because it will progress your character. Character progression reaches a halt in horizontal progression. At that point you go for cosmetics. But, what if you already got the cosmetic you want? Then you have no incentive to keep playing. There needs to be a carrot on a stick to keep players playing.
    Hmm i didn't really mention leveling. Though i guess increasing levels with expansions would be an idea to differentiate the gear tiers in zones. Honestly, it's just like the game already works. There wouldn't be any change.

  • Nemmar.8491Nemmar.8491 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    the problem with the last two xpacts is the simple fact that, even after all what was made, all it truly got us is a way of fast and saver transportation.
    HoT doesn't really have anything more than allot of grind, added currency and a really lame end battle, leaving us with just gliders which is quite a cash cow for Anet.
    PoF has allot of nostalgia but not much to go for, in it's base sense it's simply a start to make the exact same mistake they made in HoT but now they have a bigger cash cow, mounts.

    what i am really hoping for is an xpac that has a big impact that draws allot of old and new guild wars fans but isn't yet more grinding, farming with extra new currencies and yet another cash cow.
    it might surprise ppl but it was handled better in guild wars, they released an expansion but kept everything within that place.
    they made plenty of exclusive stuff but it didn't affect the rest of the game, you can play the game without the xpac while adding allot of fun to the game if you bought it.

    so to round it up, it's better when an expansion pack adds something new but doesn't put anyone at a disadvantage when you don't own it, one that makes quite an impact but doesn't make it necessary.

    You can play gw2 without the expansions just fine. In gw1 you were at a disadvantage without the expansions.

    That is a funny thing to say. I would like to know why you say that.

    Is it because of the skills that were unlocked with a new expansion? Is it not the same as the elite specializations and their skills nowadays? Also, how are you not at a disavantage without a glider and mounts? :expressionless:

  • To ask your question : there is something in the works. We all know that at any given moment half of entire Anet team is working for next expansion. So at this time there is 1 and half work of a expansion. Now looking at Q4 earnings i bet we will see this work in 2019. I cant imagine a whole year with 4 x Q4 earnings for Anet. Now returning at what Mike Z is saying, seeing that it will not be an expansion between LW4 and LW5, Id say We will get the next expansion thru LW5 episodes. Episodes which we will have to buy. Using POF as a reference here how I think it will be;

    • Episode 1: Crystal Oasis Map + mounts (Team expansion work)
    • Episode 2: Desert Higlands Map + elite specialization+griffon (Team expansion work)
    • Episode 3: Elon Riverlands Map + Istan Meta+whatever we farmed in LWS2 map. (Team expansion and team LW working together)
    • Episode 4: The Desolation Map +Beetle+ Sun refuge + Armour Collection (Team expansion and team LW working together)
    • Episode 5: Domain of Vabbi Map + Weapon Collection + whatever we will get to farm in S6. (Team expansion and team LW working together)
      It will less work for Anet, so they can trow some dungeons, open world bosses in every map and a longer story.
      At the end we will have 5 maps with plenty to do, instead of 11 maps that are empty right now.
      Obvious they will charge us something like 10-20 euro / episode, ...and instead of 30 euro we will pay 50-100 euro.
  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @Nemmar.8491 said:
    The advantages of vertical progression is that your character grows in strength. You want to go into the next raid/dungeon because it will progress your character. Character progression reaches a halt in horizontal progression. At that point you go for cosmetics. But, what if you already got the cosmetic you want? Then you have no incentive to keep playing. There needs to be a carrot on a stick to keep players playing.
    Hmm i didn't really mention leveling. Though i guess increasing levels with expansions would be an idea to differentiate the gear tiers in zones. Honestly, it's just like the game already works. There wouldn't be any change.

    No there doesn't, at least not for every game (in form of constant gear grind). GW2 has a USP in this area. If you need a carrot on a stick to keep playing the game, you are not the target audience.

    Going down the same road as every single other MMO does only 2 things:

    • alienate part of your core player base
    • offer game play to a segment of players which could go to any other MMO thus putting you in direct competition for those players

    Why in their right mind would ANY developer decide to go down this road?

  • @Nemmar.8491 said:

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    ^I'm not sure how many would agree with that assessment. My characters don't continually find themselves downed or one-shot, and I am clueless about builds, etc. Still, pretty much, using the same ones I started with. I'm not sure the 'trinity' is absolutely necessary for open-world or Story content, and that comprises a large portion of the game.

    Maybe all players are not "skint" [sic], but changing the payment model, which is a Guild Wars franchise pillar, would not necessarily bring in more players, and those it did bring in might not make up for all those who left.

    I think there were lamentations about Guild Wars before GW2, and now that game is looked back on fondly. If there ever was a Guild Wars 3, I imagine the same thing would happen...

    I'm unclear about any advantages to Vertical Progression, aka 'gear treadmill'. Would every single piece of content need down-leveling in such a case? Sounds like more work with little pay-off. Of course, I'm not a Game Developer.

    Any boss event has lots of dead people. I'm constantly resing. This is how the game is balanced. I don't think it is so much open to interpretation as a fact. If you stand in front of a boss or in a red circle and get hit you will get 1 or 2 shot. This is because you can dodge and negate the whole damage. Obviously, if you are fighting a tiny mob out in the world it's not really representative. I'm sure it will still hurt if you don't dodge or heal a bit though.

    Anyways, i know that there are many long rooted GW fans that really have a hard time changing their ways. I know. I used to be one back in the day, but GW1 was a very different game from GW2 and the realities of the MMO space have changed. To hold on to old tropes (or misguided notions that it can break with mmo design just cause) is what is actually holding back GW2 from being better.
    I did say trinity is necessary for instanced content, not outworld. Don't think of it as only one profession can do one thing. This is up to class design. In GW1 you could really tank with any profession given the right build... or heal. Of course, some were more efficient than others.

    The sub option should not actually drive anyone away as the F2P players will still have the same options they do now. So, i don't know exactly why they would leave.

    As for looking fondly. Nostalgia will always be a factor on every game. You tend to remember the good times more than the bad ones.
    I can tell you though, that i don't have very many from GW2. The highlight has been the story missions. Some great work goes into those and i am always amazed at the boss encounters they make wich are on par with a raid boss encounters. But i remember almost every aspect of GW1 findly. This was because it was such a joy to play. The combat was amazing. Just things like random arena were a ton of fun as you adjusted to the meta of the moment. The elite missions, the story's themselves were far richer. Not to be funny, but while i enjoy GW2 story mode, it has done little more than burn through GW1 lore.

    The advantages of vertical progression is that your character grows in strength. You want to go into the next raid/dungeon because it will progress your character. Character progression reaches a halt in horizontal progression. At that point you go for cosmetics. But, what if you already got the cosmetic you want? Then you have no incentive to keep playing. There needs to be a carrot on a stick to keep players playing.
    Hmm i didn't really mention leveling. Though i guess increasing levels with expansions would be an idea to differentiate the gear tiers in zones. Honestly, it's just like the game already works. There wouldn't be any change.

    I'm not sure we are playing the same game.
    Also, do remember, there was no vertical progression in Guild Wars, either. It seems that game is remembered fondly.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nemmar.8491 said:
    Also, how are you not at a disavantage without a glider and mounts? :expressionless:

    Because there is nothing in core tyria that is denied a player who does not have a glider or mounts, therefore there is no advantage or disadvantage when comparing players to players. Gliders/mounts in core tyria are a significant QoL improvement for sure, but they are not required to complete the content there.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    I don't understand what's so different about expansions vs Living Story/DLC. As far as I can see the only differences are an expansion is released all in one go and I have to pay extra for it. The storylines, maps, content etc. aren't fundamentally different. Silverwastes was a living story map and that's quite similar to the HoT maps with a map-wide meta event chain, lots of hidden things dotted around and even gave us a new armour set with two variants (carapace and luminescent).

    I still think the Carapace Armor set is the best looking armor in the game, especially the Heavy set.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    I love LS but they are stretching things a bit. Unless the LS5 releases are really big to counter expansion-like content (with better instance content delivery as well) or manage to accomplish a the minimum cadence of 2-months, having an expansion every 3 years under the current model is a bit too long. LS has managed to retain players extremely well until now, but it has limits. But it is not a replacement unless sth really big comes with it.

    Then again maybe they are expecting the 25th Bless Online failed relaunch to add new players.

  • finkle.9513finkle.9513 Member ✭✭✭

    I just wish they would focus on tieing all the world in together, I dont even go back to 80% of the maps,... whats the point in world boss? all the focus is on meta gold farm, getting achievements done as fast as possible, with trains and portals so we can tick a box that its done.... I would like a shift in emphasis, and more on fun than ticking off a list of chores.... its been this same regurgitated content in different guises for years... I am ready for a change!

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @finkle.9513 said:
    I just wish they would focus on tieing all the world in together, I dont even go back to 80% of the maps,... whats the point in world boss? all the focus is on meta gold farm, getting achievements done as fast as possible, with trains and portals so we can tick a box that its done.... I would like a shift in emphasis, and more on fun than ticking off a list of chores.... its been this same regurgitated content in different guises for years... I am ready for a change!

    Might be more helpful if you define what kind of change(s) you would suggest that they make. Your post is a bit vague in that regard.

    Although, that might be better served in a different thread so as not to derail this one?

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nemmar.8491 said:
    The advantages of vertical progression is that your character grows in strength. You want to go into the next raid/dungeon because it will progress your character. Character progression reaches a halt in horizontal progression. At that point you go for cosmetics. But, what if you already got the cosmetic you want? Then you have no incentive to keep playing. There needs to be a carrot on a stick to keep players playing.
    Hmm i didn't really mention leveling. Though i guess increasing levels with expansions would be an idea to differentiate the gear tiers in zones. Honestly, it's just like the game already works. There wouldn't be any change.

    No there doesn't, at least not for every game (in form of constant gear grind). GW2 has a USP in this area. If you need a carrot on a stick to keep playing the game, you are not the target audience.

    Going down the same road as every single other MMO does only 2 things:

    • alienate part of your core player base
    • offer game play to a segment of players which could go to any other MMO thus putting you in direct competition for those players

    Why in their right mind would ANY developer decide to go down this road?

    Ye man, introducing raids was just stupid.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nemmar.8491 said:
    The advantages of vertical progression is that your character grows in strength. You want to go into the next raid/dungeon because it will progress your character. Character progression reaches a halt in horizontal progression. At that point you go for cosmetics. But, what if you already got the cosmetic you want? Then you have no incentive to keep playing. There needs to be a carrot on a stick to keep players playing.
    Hmm i didn't really mention leveling. Though i guess increasing levels with expansions would be an idea to differentiate the gear tiers in zones. Honestly, it's just like the game already works. There wouldn't be any change.

    No there doesn't, at least not for every game (in form of constant gear grind). GW2 has a USP in this area. If you need a carrot on a stick to keep playing the game, you are not the target audience.

    Going down the same road as every single other MMO does only 2 things:

    • alienate part of your core player base
    • offer game play to a segment of players which could go to any other MMO thus putting you in direct competition for those players

    Why in their right mind would ANY developer decide to go down this road?

    Ye man, introducing raids was just stupid.

    From a comparative point to other MMOs, absolutely. Or are you going to seriously stand here and argue that raids in GW2 are comparable to any other MMO with serious raid content?

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Also if we were to get expac luke features in lw it would suck big time when it comes to elite specs. Unless they drop them all in one episode its gonna be fun having everyone else play with their new toys and you standing there w8ing for your elite spec to drop.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nemmar.8491 said:
    The advantages of vertical progression is that your character grows in strength. You want to go into the next raid/dungeon because it will progress your character. Character progression reaches a halt in horizontal progression. At that point you go for cosmetics. But, what if you already got the cosmetic you want? Then you have no incentive to keep playing. There needs to be a carrot on a stick to keep players playing.
    Hmm i didn't really mention leveling. Though i guess increasing levels with expansions would be an idea to differentiate the gear tiers in zones. Honestly, it's just like the game already works. There wouldn't be any change.

    No there doesn't, at least not for every game (in form of constant gear grind). GW2 has a USP in this area. If you need a carrot on a stick to keep playing the game, you are not the target audience.

    Going down the same road as every single other MMO does only 2 things:

    • alienate part of your core player base
    • offer game play to a segment of players which could go to any other MMO thus putting you in direct competition for those players

    Why in their right mind would ANY developer decide to go down this road?

    Ye man, introducing raids was just stupid.

    From a comparative point to other MMOs, absolutely. Or are you going to seriously stand here and argue that raids in GW2 are comparable to any other MMO with serious raid content?

    I mean, they are absolutely comparable for what they are. Jus like open in gw2 is conparable to world events in other mmos.

    Also mounts.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nemmar.8491 said:
    The advantages of vertical progression is that your character grows in strength. You want to go into the next raid/dungeon because it will progress your character. Character progression reaches a halt in horizontal progression. At that point you go for cosmetics. But, what if you already got the cosmetic you want? Then you have no incentive to keep playing. There needs to be a carrot on a stick to keep players playing.
    Hmm i didn't really mention leveling. Though i guess increasing levels with expansions would be an idea to differentiate the gear tiers in zones. Honestly, it's just like the game already works. There wouldn't be any change.

    No there doesn't, at least not for every game (in form of constant gear grind). GW2 has a USP in this area. If you need a carrot on a stick to keep playing the game, you are not the target audience.

    Going down the same road as every single other MMO does only 2 things:

    • alienate part of your core player base
    • offer game play to a segment of players which could go to any other MMO thus putting you in direct competition for those players

    Why in their right mind would ANY developer decide to go down this road?

    Ye man, introducing raids was just stupid.

    From a comparative point to other MMOs, absolutely. Or are you going to seriously stand here and argue that raids in GW2 are comparable to any other MMO with serious raid content?

    I mean, they are absolutely comparable for what they are. Jus like open in gw2 is conparable to world events in other mmos.

    No they are not. If you are a serious raider, GW2 would not be on your radar UNLESS you are really into the other things GW2 has to offer.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nemmar.8491 said:
    The advantages of vertical progression is that your character grows in strength. You want to go into the next raid/dungeon because it will progress your character. Character progression reaches a halt in horizontal progression. At that point you go for cosmetics. But, what if you already got the cosmetic you want? Then you have no incentive to keep playing. There needs to be a carrot on a stick to keep players playing.
    Hmm i didn't really mention leveling. Though i guess increasing levels with expansions would be an idea to differentiate the gear tiers in zones. Honestly, it's just like the game already works. There wouldn't be any change.

    No there doesn't, at least not for every game (in form of constant gear grind). GW2 has a USP in this area. If you need a carrot on a stick to keep playing the game, you are not the target audience.

    Going down the same road as every single other MMO does only 2 things:

    • alienate part of your core player base
    • offer game play to a segment of players which could go to any other MMO thus putting you in direct competition for those players

    Why in their right mind would ANY developer decide to go down this road?

    Ye man, introducing raids was just stupid.

    From a comparative point to other MMOs, absolutely. Or are you going to seriously stand here and argue that raids in GW2 are comparable to any other MMO with serious raid content?

    I mean, they are absolutely comparable for what they are. Jus like open in gw2 is conparable to world events in other mmos.

    No they are not. If you are a serious raider, GW2 would not be on your radar UNLESS you are really into the other things GW2 has to offer.

    If you were a serious raider gw2 wouldnt be on your radar for a number of things, the raids themselves and their format isnt one those things.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nemmar.8491 said:
    The advantages of vertical progression is that your character grows in strength. You want to go into the next raid/dungeon because it will progress your character. Character progression reaches a halt in horizontal progression. At that point you go for cosmetics. But, what if you already got the cosmetic you want? Then you have no incentive to keep playing. There needs to be a carrot on a stick to keep players playing.
    Hmm i didn't really mention leveling. Though i guess increasing levels with expansions would be an idea to differentiate the gear tiers in zones. Honestly, it's just like the game already works. There wouldn't be any change.

    No there doesn't, at least not for every game (in form of constant gear grind). GW2 has a USP in this area. If you need a carrot on a stick to keep playing the game, you are not the target audience.

    Going down the same road as every single other MMO does only 2 things:

    • alienate part of your core player base
    • offer game play to a segment of players which could go to any other MMO thus putting you in direct competition for those players

    Why in their right mind would ANY developer decide to go down this road?

    Ye man, introducing raids was just stupid.

    From a comparative point to other MMOs, absolutely. Or are you going to seriously stand here and argue that raids in GW2 are comparable to any other MMO with serious raid content?

    I mean, they are absolutely comparable for what they are. Jus like open in gw2 is conparable to world events in other mmos.

    No they are not. If you are a serious raider, GW2 would not be on your radar UNLESS you are really into the other things GW2 has to offer.

    If you were a serious raider gw2 wouldnt be on your radar for a number of things, the raids themselves and their format isnt one those things.

    Sure, there might be other things. Lack of raids is not really a USP though, so not sure how you think this is in any way a comparison. The world design and loot/reward system has not changed and people not interested in raids are at most minor affected by them. Yet there is enough people who dislike the addition of raids, yet they can continue to enjoy GW2 mostly affect free.

    Not having constant gear grind IS a strong USP and has been with the franchise since GW1. You literally do not understand USP or enjoy comparing apples to oranges.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nemmar.8491 said:
    The advantages of vertical progression is that your character grows in strength. You want to go into the next raid/dungeon because it will progress your character. Character progression reaches a halt in horizontal progression. At that point you go for cosmetics. But, what if you already got the cosmetic you want? Then you have no incentive to keep playing. There needs to be a carrot on a stick to keep players playing.
    Hmm i didn't really mention leveling. Though i guess increasing levels with expansions would be an idea to differentiate the gear tiers in zones. Honestly, it's just like the game already works. There wouldn't be any change.

    No there doesn't, at least not for every game (in form of constant gear grind). GW2 has a USP in this area. If you need a carrot on a stick to keep playing the game, you are not the target audience.

    Going down the same road as every single other MMO does only 2 things:

    • alienate part of your core player base
    • offer game play to a segment of players which could go to any other MMO thus putting you in direct competition for those players

    Why in their right mind would ANY developer decide to go down this road?

    Ye man, introducing raids was just stupid.

    From a comparative point to other MMOs, absolutely. Or are you going to seriously stand here and argue that raids in GW2 are comparable to any other MMO with serious raid content?

    I mean, they are absolutely comparable for what they are. Jus like open in gw2 is conparable to world events in other mmos.

    No they are not. If you are a serious raider, GW2 would not be on your radar UNLESS you are really into the other things GW2 has to offer.

    If you were a serious raider gw2 wouldnt be on your radar for a number of things, the raids themselves and their format isnt one those things.

    Sure, there might be other things. Lack of raids is not really a USP though, so not sure how you think this is in any way a comparison. The world design and loot/reward system has not changed and people not interested in raids are at most minor affected by them. Yet there is enough people who dislike the addition of raids, yet they can continue to enjoy GW2 mostly affect free.

    Not having constant gear grind IS a strong USP and has been with the franchise since GW1. You literally do not understand USP or enjoy comparing apples to oranges.

    Even raid centric mmos like wow and ff14 are alot closer to this. Sure gear maters and some ppl do raid for the best gear but from what i remember both in wow and ff14 theres alternative ways to get good gear and you can play the game just fine in that aspect

    Alot of ppl also raid and enjoy raiding for the challenge it provides them and the progression, thats something u can absolutely find in a game like gw2.

    Also how is the lack of raids not a Usp? Theres a number of ppl and quote that if you look (actually i assume more of them were in the old forums) of ppl saying they came to gw2 because it didnt have raids or it didnt have gear grinds. Lack of something can absolutely be a Usp.

    Apples and oranges are both fruits with their pros and cons but that doesnt stop them from being comparable.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nemmar.8491 said:
    The advantages of vertical progression is that your character grows in strength. You want to go into the next raid/dungeon because it will progress your character. Character progression reaches a halt in horizontal progression. At that point you go for cosmetics. But, what if you already got the cosmetic you want? Then you have no incentive to keep playing. There needs to be a carrot on a stick to keep players playing.
    Hmm i didn't really mention leveling. Though i guess increasing levels with expansions would be an idea to differentiate the gear tiers in zones. Honestly, it's just like the game already works. There wouldn't be any change.

    No there doesn't, at least not for every game (in form of constant gear grind). GW2 has a USP in this area. If you need a carrot on a stick to keep playing the game, you are not the target audience.

    Going down the same road as every single other MMO does only 2 things:

    • alienate part of your core player base
    • offer game play to a segment of players which could go to any other MMO thus putting you in direct competition for those players

    Why in their right mind would ANY developer decide to go down this road?

    Ye man, introducing raids was just stupid.

    From a comparative point to other MMOs, absolutely. Or are you going to seriously stand here and argue that raids in GW2 are comparable to any other MMO with serious raid content?

    I mean, they are absolutely comparable for what they are. Jus like open in gw2 is conparable to world events in other mmos.

    No they are not. If you are a serious raider, GW2 would not be on your radar UNLESS you are really into the other things GW2 has to offer.

    If you were a serious raider gw2 wouldnt be on your radar for a number of things, the raids themselves and their format isnt one those things.

    Sure, there might be other things. Lack of raids is not really a USP though, so not sure how you think this is in any way a comparison. The world design and loot/reward system has not changed and people not interested in raids are at most minor affected by them. Yet there is enough people who dislike the addition of raids, yet they can continue to enjoy GW2 mostly affect free.

    Not having constant gear grind IS a strong USP and has been with the franchise since GW1. You literally do not understand USP or enjoy comparing apples to oranges.

    Even raid centric mmos like wow and ff14 are alot closer to this. Sure gear maters and some ppl do raid for the best gear but from what i remember both in wow and ff14 theres alternative ways to get good gear and you can play the game just fine in that aspect

    Alot of ppl also raid and enjoy raiding for the challenge it provides them and the progression, thats something u can absolutely find in a game like gw2.

    Also how is the lack of raids not a Usp? Theres a number of ppl and quote that if you look (actually i assume more of them were in the old forums) of ppl saying they came to gw2 because it didnt have raids or it didnt have gear grinds. Lack of something can absolutely be a Usp.

    Apples and oranges are both fruits with their pros and cons but that doesnt stop them from being comparable.

    No, lack of raids is not a USP. The world and loot design associated with lack of raids is. That has barely changed if at all. Get your facts strait.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nemmar.8491 said:
    The advantages of vertical progression is that your character grows in strength. You want to go into the next raid/dungeon because it will progress your character. Character progression reaches a halt in horizontal progression. At that point you go for cosmetics. But, what if you already got the cosmetic you want? Then you have no incentive to keep playing. There needs to be a carrot on a stick to keep players playing.
    Hmm i didn't really mention leveling. Though i guess increasing levels with expansions would be an idea to differentiate the gear tiers in zones. Honestly, it's just like the game already works. There wouldn't be any change.

    No there doesn't, at least not for every game (in form of constant gear grind). GW2 has a USP in this area. If you need a carrot on a stick to keep playing the game, you are not the target audience.

    Going down the same road as every single other MMO does only 2 things:

    • alienate part of your core player base
    • offer game play to a segment of players which could go to any other MMO thus putting you in direct competition for those players

    Why in their right mind would ANY developer decide to go down this road?

    Ye man, introducing raids was just stupid.

    From a comparative point to other MMOs, absolutely. Or are you going to seriously stand here and argue that raids in GW2 are comparable to any other MMO with serious raid content?

    I mean, they are absolutely comparable for what they are. Jus like open in gw2 is conparable to world events in other mmos.

    No they are not. If you are a serious raider, GW2 would not be on your radar UNLESS you are really into the other things GW2 has to offer.

    If you were a serious raider gw2 wouldnt be on your radar for a number of things, the raids themselves and their format isnt one those things.

    Sure, there might be other things. Lack of raids is not really a USP though, so not sure how you think this is in any way a comparison. The world design and loot/reward system has not changed and people not interested in raids are at most minor affected by them. Yet there is enough people who dislike the addition of raids, yet they can continue to enjoy GW2 mostly affect free.

    Not having constant gear grind IS a strong USP and has been with the franchise since GW1. You literally do not understand USP or enjoy comparing apples to oranges.

    Even raid centric mmos like wow and ff14 are alot closer to this. Sure gear maters and some ppl do raid for the best gear but from what i remember both in wow and ff14 theres alternative ways to get good gear and you can play the game just fine in that aspect

    Alot of ppl also raid and enjoy raiding for the challenge it provides them and the progression, thats something u can absolutely find in a game like gw2.

    Also how is the lack of raids not a Usp? Theres a number of ppl and quote that if you look (actually i assume more of them were in the old forums) of ppl saying they came to gw2 because it didnt have raids or it didnt have gear grinds. Lack of something can absolutely be a Usp.

    Apples and oranges are both fruits with their pros and cons but that doesnt stop them from being comparable.

    No, lack of raids is not a USP. The world and loot design associated with lack of raids is. That has barely changed if at all. Get your facts strait.

    Is there some kind of list? Im sure the ppl that constantly compained about them over the years definitely found the lack of them be an USP.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nemmar.8491 said:
    The advantages of vertical progression is that your character grows in strength. You want to go into the next raid/dungeon because it will progress your character. Character progression reaches a halt in horizontal progression. At that point you go for cosmetics. But, what if you already got the cosmetic you want? Then you have no incentive to keep playing. There needs to be a carrot on a stick to keep players playing.
    Hmm i didn't really mention leveling. Though i guess increasing levels with expansions would be an idea to differentiate the gear tiers in zones. Honestly, it's just like the game already works. There wouldn't be any change.

    No there doesn't, at least not for every game (in form of constant gear grind). GW2 has a USP in this area. If you need a carrot on a stick to keep playing the game, you are not the target audience.

    Going down the same road as every single other MMO does only 2 things:

    • alienate part of your core player base
    • offer game play to a segment of players which could go to any other MMO thus putting you in direct competition for those players

    Why in their right mind would ANY developer decide to go down this road?

    Ye man, introducing raids was just stupid.

    From a comparative point to other MMOs, absolutely. Or are you going to seriously stand here and argue that raids in GW2 are comparable to any other MMO with serious raid content?

    I mean, they are absolutely comparable for what they are. Jus like open in gw2 is conparable to world events in other mmos.

    No they are not. If you are a serious raider, GW2 would not be on your radar UNLESS you are really into the other things GW2 has to offer.

    If you were a serious raider gw2 wouldnt be on your radar for a number of things, the raids themselves and their format isnt one those things.

    Sure, there might be other things. Lack of raids is not really a USP though, so not sure how you think this is in any way a comparison. The world design and loot/reward system has not changed and people not interested in raids are at most minor affected by them. Yet there is enough people who dislike the addition of raids, yet they can continue to enjoy GW2 mostly affect free.

    Not having constant gear grind IS a strong USP and has been with the franchise since GW1. You literally do not understand USP or enjoy comparing apples to oranges.

    Even raid centric mmos like wow and ff14 are alot closer to this. Sure gear maters and some ppl do raid for the best gear but from what i remember both in wow and ff14 theres alternative ways to get good gear and you can play the game just fine in that aspect

    Alot of ppl also raid and enjoy raiding for the challenge it provides them and the progression, thats something u can absolutely find in a game like gw2.

    Also how is the lack of raids not a Usp? Theres a number of ppl and quote that if you look (actually i assume more of them were in the old forums) of ppl saying they came to gw2 because it didnt have raids or it didnt have gear grinds. Lack of something can absolutely be a Usp.

    Apples and oranges are both fruits with their pros and cons but that doesnt stop them from being comparable.

    No, lack of raids is not a USP. The world and loot design associated with lack of raids is. That has barely changed if at all. Get your facts strait.

    Is there some kind of list? Im sure the ppl that constantly compained about them over the years definitely found the lack of them be an USP.

    Lack of something is almost NEVER a USP. The benefit of lacking something can be a USP. Adding raids was not breaking with a USP since you are not unique in having raids, nor are you unique in not having raids. There is other MMOs without raids.

    Again, raids getting added barely affected this aspect. Loot, world design, progression, etc. was not affected by raids (or if at all only minor). Balance to a certain extent was (and is some of the reason why people might be offended).

    Not having a constant increasing gear treadmill is a USP as in almost no other MMO has this. It's something which has been with the franchise longer than this installment.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It would be nice if non-raiders finally had an option to get legendary armor apart from being forced to grind WvW.

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