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Raids and discrimination.

So I'm new to this raiding thing and wanted to try it out so i can get the "Hateful Sworl" precursor. So There I was after a long day joining a squad doing Hall of Chains and doing my best with my Barrier + Heal Scourge build (I'm a Necro main) ya know keeping people healthy and safe till we got up to Dhuum. So I was like "oh boy this the finally" and I'm being asked what my skill level is... So I told them I was new and got kicked instantly. Ok no biggy I'll find another group, so I joined another one and got kicked within 10 sec just for being a Necro and this happened with 3 other groups as well within 10 min of time. As a person with severe Social Anxiety this is not very motivating. I get insults thrown at me like "Noob go train" or "No Necros, Thieves..." and if I ask them if there is any problem they feel the need to humiliate me even more. Where did I think that interacting with people would go well. It causes me to eat myself up and ask "what did I do wrong ?" or "what could I have done to make it better". I'm just a person that tries to make something out of life after every setback and curve ball, but I guess if you're treated like an outcast in real life it also reflects online and there is no point trying to be something else. Anyone else in the same pandemonium ?

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Comments

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:
    So I'm new to this raiding thing and wanted to try it out so i can get the "Hateful Sworl" precursor. So There I was after a long day joining a squad doing Hall of Chains and doing my best with my Barrier + Heal Scourge build (I'm a Necro main) ya know keeping people healthy and safe till we got up to Dhuum. So I was like "oh boy this the finally" and I'm being asked what my skill level is... So I told them I was new and got kicked instantly. Ok no biggy I'll find another group, so I joined another one and got kicked within 10 sec just for being a Necro and this happened with 3 other groups as well within 10 min of time. As a person with severe Social Anxiety this is not very motivating. I get insults thrown at me like "Noob go train" or "No Necros, Thieves..." and if I ask them if there is any problem they feel the need to humiliate me even more. Where did I think that interacting with people would go well. It causes me to eat myself up and ask "what did I do wrong ?" or "what could I have done to make it better". I'm just a person that tries to make something out of life after every setback and curve ball, but I guess if you're treated like an outcast in real life it also reflects online and there is no point trying to be something else. Anyone else in the same pandemonium ?

    Were the groups you were joinng listed as exped or ping X kp?

  • Nothing about exp but there were a couple with ping kp , but my point is how can you even gain exp if no one wants you in the group

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Depends on the context of the kick OP. If there’s shaming involved send a report to Anet, especially since there’s evidence in the chat logs. Eventually those types will get a short ban or time out.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    More than that, tells nothing. Don't know the full story or reason aside a player was kicked just from that.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You getting kicked had nothing to do with being on necromancer but more with not pinging the relevant kill proof and/or LI.

    I've seen people kicking necros for the simply sake of being necros tho... Problably not a daily occurancy, but certainly not as uncommon as people make it to be.

    In a sick way it's comforting I'm not the only one in this situation... Anet really hates Necros don't they ?

    Not really, it might not be the class I would recommend for someone who starts raids and they might not be top tier for most bosses on dps, but outside of speed runs, necros see play.

    Getting kicked in the situation Jeknar describes are far and seldom in todays GW2 (also a result of players being able to check performance).

    Just to be clear, you were not kicked due to being a necro.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You getting kicked had nothing to do with being on necromancer but more with not pinging the relevant kill proof and/or LI.

    I've seen people kicking necros for the simply sake of being necros tho... Problably not a daily occurancy, but certainly not as uncommon as people make it to be.

    Hmmm haven't seen that in a while, but I won't disagree that it might occur. Then again, that would be a clear sign for me to not stick with the squad for long, since the very least one should give a player who "passes" entry requirements is: see how they perform (and not doing so is showing lack of understanding).

    Unfortunately though, you are right, some people will go with their "gut feeling", no matter how misplaced or wrong it might be.

    Thats the thing. I got in and I was pulling my weight you know keeping people healthy and a permanent barrier uptime, but as soon as we got to Dhuum the Squad leader said "This is not for your kind". I get that he's hard and all that but atleast give me a chance to prove myself. I did some research before entering and used a build from snowcrows. I never died (made some minor mistakes true)

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You getting kicked had nothing to do with being on necromancer but more with not pinging the relevant kill proof and/or LI.

    I've seen people kicking necros for the simply sake of being necros tho... Problably not a daily occurancy, but certainly not as uncommon as people make it to be.

    In a sick way it's comforting I'm not the only one in this situation... Anet really hates Necros don't they ?

    Not really, it might not be the class I would recommend for someone who starts raids and they might not be top tier for most bosses on dps, but outside of speed runs, necros see play.

    Getting kicked in the situation Jeknar describes are far and seldom in todays GW2 (also a result of players being able to check performance).

    Just to be clear, you were not kicked due to being a necro.

    So in other words, people in Raids want pure DPS and not someone that keeps em healthy since they can retry from a checkpoint anyway. Maybe i'll make a chronomancer or stay clear of this all together

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You getting kicked had nothing to do with being on necromancer but more with not pinging the relevant kill proof and/or LI.

    I've seen people kicking necros for the simply sake of being necros tho... Problably not a daily occurancy, but certainly not as uncommon as people make it to be.

    Hmmm haven't seen that in a while, but I won't disagree that it might occur. Then again, that would be a clear sign for me to not stick with the squad for long, since the very least one should give a player who "passes" entry requirements is: see how they perform (and not doing so is showing lack of understanding).

    Unfortunately though, you are right, some people will go with their "gut feeling", no matter how misplaced or wrong it might be.

    Thats the thing. I got in and I was pulling my weight you know keeping people healthy and a permanent barrier uptime, but as soon as we got to Dhuum the Squad leader said "This is not for your kind". I get that he's hard and all that but atleast give me a chance to prove myself. I did some research before entering and used a build from snowcrows. I never died (made some minor mistakes true)

    That's not your job on Dhuum as healer though.

    Your job as healer on Dhuum (as stack necro) is:

    • boons (which necro provides almost none)
    • healing (which necro is fine for)
    • condition cleanse on phases
    • proper positioning
    • know how to deal with specific mechanics like the bomb and shackles (both of which can either wipe the raid, or kill 1-2 people within 3-4 seconds)

    If an experienced group had you tag along for B1-3, then they had figured by now you are lacking experience for Dhuum. Boss 1 is no biggy since all you have to do as support scourge is tag along with the group (no risk what so ever to wipe the raid), river and statues are mini boss events who absolutely do not matter, Dhum is probably the hardest raid boss in the game (depending on if you consider Dhuum or Qadim harder). That's how wing 5 is built up.

    What you described so far is: an experienced group decided to have you tag along and carry you through the first 3 bosses on wing 5, since all the mechanics were covered and a bit of barrier from the second healer is all that is needed. THen when reaching Dhuum they had to replace you.

    That's the most honest comment i've been given, I had no idea he was THAT hard. Maybe I'll roll a chrono or druid. I'll make it work

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:
    So I'm new to this raiding thing and wanted to try it out so i can get the "Hateful Sworl" precursor. So There I was after a long day joining a squad doing Hall of Chains and doing my best with my Barrier + Heal Scourge build (I'm a Necro main) ya know keeping people healthy and safe till we got up to Dhuum. So I was like "oh boy this the finally" and I'm being asked what my skill level is... So I told them I was new and got kicked instantly. Ok no biggy I'll find another group, so I joined another one and got kicked within 10 sec just for being a Necro and this happened with 3 other groups as well within 10 min of time. As a person with severe Social Anxiety this is not very motivating. I get insults thrown at me like "Noob go train" or "No Necros, Thieves..." and if I ask them if there is any problem they feel the need to humiliate me even more. Where did I think that interacting with people would go well. It causes me to eat myself up and ask "what did I do wrong ?" or "what could I have done to make it better". I'm just a person that tries to make something out of life after every setback and curve ball, but I guess if you're treated like an outcast in real life it also reflects online and there is no point trying to be something else. Anyone else in the same pandemonium ?

    If you are still looking for group to Raid with, i think i might got something for you.

    Our guild [WIPE] does training runs and kill runs for every wing. We have lots of experienced raiders in our guild who Will lead trainings.
    Our most important tool is discord(with or without mic) as our Raid sign-ups and other announcements are there. Our guild use tier system to rank players so we can offer right content for said players while they get better and are ready to move for harder wings. Usual Raid times are 19st--> and 21St-->.
    Let me know If this is something that suits you. :)
    EU

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • A bit of a side note regarding Barrier Scourge. It is a great class for static raid runs, because you know your fellow teammates and they know they can rely on your barrier and condi cleanse. However you will have hard time getting with it in any other group.
    I am raid training with Crossroads Inn group and they dont allow scourge healers simply because they allow negating (thus learning) mechanics, which beats the purpose of training. And pugs tend to stick with druids because of the spirits and extra buffs even if druid healing is far from highest in the healer category.

  • @Nemezijus.6851 said:
    A bit of a side note regarding Barrier Scourge. It is a great class for static raid runs, because you know your fellow teammates and they know they can rely on your barrier and condi cleanse. However you will have hard time getting with it in any other group.
    I am raid training with Crossroads Inn group and they dont allow scourge healers simply because they allow negating (thus learning) mechanics, which beats the purpose of training. And pugs tend to stick with druids because of the spirits and extra buffs even if druid healing is far from highest in the healer category.

    That makes a lot of sense, I was hoping support scourge would become a thing... but stick to the meta I guess

  • @CountMozenrath.7631 said:

    @Nemezijus.6851 said:
    A bit of a side note regarding Barrier Scourge. It is a great class for static raid runs, because you know your fellow teammates and they know they can rely on your barrier and condi cleanse. However you will have hard time getting with it in any other group.
    I am raid training with Crossroads Inn group and they dont allow scourge healers simply because they allow negating (thus learning) mechanics, which beats the purpose of training. And pugs tend to stick with druids because of the spirits and extra buffs even if druid healing is far from highest in the healer category.

    That makes a lot of sense, I was hoping support scourge would become a thing... but stick to the meta I guess

    Unfortunately I don't see it happening. Despite the MightyTeapot showing how scourge barrier can carry pugs in raids, it simply is not looked at seriously in real-life pugs. That being said, sometimes I play my barrier scourge in my guild raiding (and raid training) and it is very fun and useful class. If you get serious in raiding and end up doing it it (semi-)static group, give another shot at scourge barrier, Im sure you will have great time with it :)
    Good luck

  • Belorn.2659Belorn.2659 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You getting kicked had nothing to do with being on necromancer but more with not pinging the relevant kill proof and/or LI.

    I've seen people kicking necros for the simply sake of being necros tho... Problably not a daily occurancy, but certainly not as uncommon as people make it to be.

    In a sick way it's comforting I'm not the only one in this situation... Anet really hates Necros don't they ?

    Not really, it might not be the class I would recommend for someone who starts raids and they might not be top tier for most bosses on dps, but outside of speed runs, necros see play.

    Getting kicked in the situation Jeknar describes are far and seldom in todays GW2 (also a result of players being able to check performance).

    Just to be clear, you were not kicked due to being a necro.

    So in other words, people in Raids want pure DPS and not someone that keeps em healthy since they can retry from a checkpoint anyway. Maybe i'll make a chronomancer or stay clear of this all together

    A note here: there is no checkpoints inside each boss fight. A team composition need to fill all roles that the specific boss encounter has and will often switch around roles between bosses depending on unique encounter requirements. With dhuum, your 10 man squad is usually:
    1 kiter.
    1 tank.
    1 banner warrior.
    1 pure boon support.
    1 group healer.
    The rest is DPS.
    Out of those, the boon support, banner warrior and either the kiter or healer will do greens with the other being backup. A Barrier Scourge would need to take up that mechanic.

    Dhuum is a mechanic heavy boss that is also extremely unforgiving. A missed bomb will wipe the group. A missed green and the encounter auto-fail. A missed shackle will often kill 2 players, and the last 10% require that most of the group is alive. The boss also teleports to a random player at intervals and drop a field, which if that player happen to be standing too close to a reaper will also cause an encounter fail. To make matters worse, dhuum has the worst pre-event that exist in raiding which means reseting cost a lot of time, and the kiting mechanics make people dizzy after a spending too much time on dhuum.

    This is why groups at dhuum tend to be quite unforgiving to new raid players. It is not uncommon to see either very higher kill proofs requirements or instant kick after a single mistake. Even very experienced raiders will get kicked if for reasons they fail mechanics, like if they get hit by high ping. It has the worst combination of being difficulty and having bad game design, and has likely caused more static groups to disband than any other raid encounter.

  • Nothing more disgusting than meta slaves who follow only 1 composition, not realizing the carry potential of a Heal Scourge.

    Funny how they ask you your skill level while taking their builds off of SnowCrows huh?

    2 Druids is also unnecessary and stupid. SnowCrows' visitors need to realize there are A LOT of good healers that can swap 1 of those druids. (Tempest, Scourge, Scrapper, FB, etc.)

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    Im necro main. Read carefully. Im farming gold to buy my own tag just because my experience was somewhat same as yours.

    So basically the thing is the community in this game is casual and its hard for them to clear dhuum boss so even the training groups ask for lot of li and other kp's(kill proofs of other bosses) to make sure you are skilled enough. But sometimes (one or twice a week) some madlad opens a squad for everyone without any requirement. You wait for that opportunity and when it comes you execute the top f'in dps/heal and you hope that others are also competent enough to clear whole w5 to reach dhuum. I cleared w5 SH/River first with a training group consisting of 8 new players with 0 knowledge of encounter and 2 people who knew mechanics in 4-5 tries.

    A more easier way would be to fake li/kp and study doing kiting+greens on dhuum. I dont do it because i dont like the idea of faking li/kp but people do it regularly untill they have enough li.

    Also kiting is stupidly easy on dhuum, the only challenge is not letting the dps who faked li in dhuum not take messenger aggro(there is always someone who faked li). I think kiting is the easiest role in dhuum. Just watch video on yt and go join pugs and keep your spidy senses up for green aoe you have to attend and thats it.

  • Amineo.8951Amineo.8951 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    One kill should be enough to prove that you're good enough to do the content, why asking for 15-30 kills? This is just exageration on the player skill level in this game, even more so when a group of them get screwed even though they got a lot of LI/Legendary armor/CM rewards from other wings, this alone proves that they are dedicated.

    If it wasn't for that team of players who accepted me in Hall of Chains without killproofs, I would've never cleared it, people should be way less obnoxious with their requirements depending on the role, you shouldn't ask that many KPs if the guy only has to drop the bomb far away or break the chain when tied to another guy if this ever happen (speaking of Dhuum btw as a DPS).

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    @Amineo.8951 said:
    One kill should be enough to prove that you're good enough to do the content, why asking for 15-30 kills? This is just exageration on the player skill level in this game, even more so when a group of them get screwed even though they got a lot of LI/Legendary armor/CM rewards.

    If it wasn't for that team of players who accepted me in Hall of Chains without killproofs, I would've never cleared it, people should be way less obnoxious with their requirements depending on the role, you shouldn't ask that many KPs if the guy only has to drop the bomb far away or break the chain when tied to another guy if this ever happen (speaking of Dhuum btw as a DPS).

    People do not believe in adapting. They believe in getting it over with. This game is like a job to them. That's why they want to play with people like them and anything that increases their chance of getting it over with fast, they take it. I dont mind this behaviour but i surely judge people for having so high requirements for such easy content and not having a static group after playing raids for so long if they have such specific gameplay needs.

    They shouldve been the minority and the people who just wanted to play the content without the need to put entry filter for other players shouldve been the majority but the lack of population and content has resulted in most of the people in the experienced category. These people want "smooth clears" for which they will sacrifice their gamemode and purposely make it harder for new players without giving them a chance and I do not agree with this.

    I think a group can clear well enough with good mix of experienced people and new players with no li or kp requirements on lfg. If you are experienced, you ping your li+kp yourself without anyone asking so commander knows how many exp players are there and is it possible to clear boss considering their experience , comp, mechanics of encounter, etc. Yes there will be downs and maybe 1-2 resets but raid will be cleared and in comparable time to how much time it takes to find people to complete a pug. And completely scrap the concept of training raids. This will also put more concern on learning mechanics before coming to raids(As raids should be hard content). Right now, If you are new player=you are bad player. But if what i said was the situation then, if you dont know mechanics=you are bad player. This spares all the new players who work hard to learn mechanics before coming in instance from getting flamed and getting pushed away from gamemode. And people who fake li or who get carried to be revealed.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    PUG PvE community is very unwelcoming to new/inexperienced players. Its not just raids, its also present in fractals.

    Best advice is to start your own LFG or join a LFG that in its description is inviting to new people. No worry, things are way better in Guilds or groups of people that usually play together.

    Also, if you are in EU, you might wanna check this out
    https://rti.enjin.com/

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Reality checks in video games. Yup...

  • You're supposed to be playing the hardest content the game has to offer.
    People have the right to have experienced people in their groups.
    Sucks you feel like that in real life, but it has nothing to do with the game like it or not.

    Get over It.

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Reality checks in video games. Yup...

    you play with real people though. if this would be a singleplayer game i would agree with you.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    They allowed you to stay till Dhuum which is already more than what most people would have done once they realized you are completely new. Pretty sure people could have complained about a lot of things you did or didn't do on the way there but they were nice. You believe you carried your own weight but that means very little and about as much as us assuming you did not like most newbies.
    That said, Dhuum is supposed to be the toughest boss there is. Brining along a newbie Healing Scourge is close to low-man'ing the encounter with 9 players. In fact, it is actually harder considering how the mechanics work, how much room there is for you to wipe the group with Bombs, Greens, Links and bad positioning on Dhuum teleports. Telling you this kind of boss isn't for someone like you (yet) is not toxic or mean it is just a fact.
    There are a lot of ways to get started on raiding and places where you get to practise. Form your own "all-welcoming squad" for Dhuum if you want to see why people tell you it probably won't work out well. There are of course people who are able to kill anything with less than ten players while you are dead on the ground but what reason would they have to bring you along if they are just looking to clear the raid quickly?
    And any of your private issues are your own. I don't see why anyone should give you special treatment no matter how terrible that sounds.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Agrippa Oculus.3726Agrippa Oculus.3726 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    I'm not sure if it's all true, and I can probably even understand the first group he was with, but it is crazy still that he mentions he was kicked out of other groups just because he played a Necro! And people that say that this never happens, know they're lying, because it does! In general (raiding scenarios) it pretty much only happens with that profession, as well. And imo that's just wrong, and is also something that won't change in the (pugging) community unless ANet does something about that!

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:
    I'm not sure if it's all true, and I can probably even understand the first group he was with, but it is crazy still that he mentions he was kicked out of other groups just because he played a Necro! And people that say that this never happens, know they're lying, because it does! In general (raiding scenarios) it pretty much only happens with that profession, as well. And imo that's just wrong, and is also something that won't change in the (pugging) community unless ANet does something about that!

    You kind of did not read the thread did you?

  • Agrippa Oculus.3726Agrippa Oculus.3726 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    I did, but I was exactly wondering the same about you some comments ago:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You getting kicked had nothing to do with being on necromancer but more with not pinging the relevant kill proof and/or LI.

    Again, I'm not saying that what the OP says is all true, but he literally says (and I quote):

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:
    Ok no biggy I'll find another group, so I joined another one and got kicked within 10 sec just for being a Necro and this happened with 3 other groups as well within 10 min of time.

    And a lot of that what you say afterwards, and maybe I'm reading through the lines here, is information that's all fine, and maybe even the main purpose of his post (maybe, I don't know for sure what his real intentions were), but still, and may I add, quite conveniently for you, undersells another real big problem! Imo (and that of other big guilds, etc.) the Necro is in the worst spot right now compared to all other professions when it comes to striving for optimal performance within the PvE endgame. Which strangely enough (not really, cause hey, who doesnt want to be optimal) is what most of the pugging community goes for!
    So we can address his literal complaint (be it just or not), or sweep it under the rug (which imo you were doing).

    My question to you is, how many times have you tried pugging in raids with a Necro (scourge, reaper, core, doesn't matter), and although it's kitten that there's a 100% pre-kick involved with playing Necro, it is, and I'm sure about that, the number one profession out there that receives the most -just because you choose this profession- kicks! And I don't believe posts/threads like these are going to help the community change in that sense. I believe it came to a point only ANet can.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:
    I did, but I was exactly wondering the same about you some comments ago:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You getting kicked had nothing to do with being on necromancer but more with not pinging the relevant kill proof and/or LI.

    Again, I'm not saying that what the OP says is all true, but he literally says (and I quote):

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:
    Ok no biggy I'll find another group, so I joined another one and got kicked within 10 sec just for being a Necro and this happened with 3 other groups as well within 10 min of time.

    And a lot of that what you say afterwards, and maybe I'm reading through the lines here, is information that's all fine, and maybe even the main purpose of his post (maybe, I don't know for sure what his real intentions were), but still, and may I add, quite conveniently for you, undersells another real big problem! Imo (and that of other big guilds, etc.) the Necro is in the worst spot right now compared to all other professions when it comes to striving for optimal performance within the PvE endgame. Which strangely enough (not really, cause hey, who doesnt want to be optimal) is what most of the pugging community goes for!
    So we can address his literal complaint (be it just or not), or sweep it under the rug (which imo you were doing).

    You got the part where he is a new player and did not ping anything right? Where basically an experienced group had him tag along for B1-3 in Wing 5?

    I did not sweep anything under the rug. I specifically explained to TC why he was kicked, and it had nothing to do with being on a necro. On the contrary, support necro kite is very useful on Dhuum. What you are doing though is using TCs completely unrelated kick from groups to complain about necromancer.

    @Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:
    My question to you is, how many times have you tried pugging in raids with a Necro (scourge, reaper, core, doesn't matter), and although it's kitten that there's a 100% pre-kick involved with playing Necro, it is, and I'm sure about that, the number one profession out there that receives the most -just because you choose this profession- kicks! And I don't believe posts/threads like these are going to help the community change in that sense. I believe it came to a point only ANet can.

    Had a support Scrouge for the entire 2 hour 45 minute training run yesterday as second healer next to druid. Cleared VG, almost Gorse and Carin, MO and Samarog (we had 4 new players whos damage was just not high enough for Gorse). I've played my share of necromancer in raids (very likely a lot more than you) even if it's not among my main raid classes. Then again, I tend to use builds which are in demand, say like support Scourge currently.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    (we had 4 new players whos damage was just not high enough for Gorse).

    Was not high enough, or was not high enough to ignore the updraft mechanics?

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  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    (we had 4 new players whos damage was just not high enough for Gorse).

    Was not high enough, or was not high enough to ignore the updraft mechanics?

    Was not high enough at all. We did updrafts to get to 33% without issues.

    We are literally talking new players who went into raids for the first time (and some without T4 fractal experience) . One with only condi Mirage, etc.

    This was a relaxed raid guild run to introduce people to both the guild and raids. This guild is more of a welcome all friendly players type guild.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    (we had 4 new players whos damage was just not high enough for Gorse).

    Was not high enough, or was not high enough to ignore the updraft mechanics?

    Was not high enough at all. We did updrafts to get to 33% without issues.

    We are literally talking new players who went into raids for the first time (and some without T4 fractal experience) . One with only condi Mirage, etc.

    This was a relaxed raid guild run to introduce people to both the guild and raids. This guild is more of a welcome all friendly players type guild.

    Oh ok... It was a legit question because people think is a Sin doing mechanics nowadays...

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Squire (Rank 5001) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 30k Achievement Points
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  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    (we had 4 new players whos damage was just not high enough for Gorse).

    Was not high enough, or was not high enough to ignore the updraft mechanics?

    Was not high enough at all. We did updrafts to get to 33% without issues.

    We are literally talking new players who went into raids for the first time (and some without T4 fractal experience) . One with only condi Mirage, etc.

    This was a relaxed raid guild run to introduce people to both the guild and raids. This guild is more of a welcome all friendly players type guild.

    Oh ok... It was a legit question because people think is a Sin doing mechanics nowadays...

    Oh absolutely, it was actually fun to have to do mechanics on Gorse for once.

  • Iris Ng.9845Iris Ng.9845 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    (we had 4 new players whos damage was just not high enough for Gorse).

    Was not high enough, or was not high enough to ignore the updraft mechanics?

    Was not high enough at all. We did updrafts to get to 33% without issues.

    We are literally talking new players who went into raids for the first time (and some without T4 fractal experience) . One with only condi Mirage, etc.

    This was a relaxed raid guild run to introduce people to both the guild and raids. This guild is more of a welcome all friendly players type guild.

    Oh ok... It was a legit question because people think is a Sin doing mechanics nowadays...

    Oh absolutely, it was actually fun to have to do mechanics on Gorse for once.

    I don't know about you but having Gorseval powered up extra 50% (by eating all the spirits) at 20%HP is painful as hell. I almost always flip out when all the noob DPS deal less damage than the off chrono. In the end, the training organizer is advised to pre-screen their trainees' golem-DPS before raids.

  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You expect to be treated differently because you have social anxiety?
    PuGing is a toxic environment in a badly balanced game like GW2. Dont pug. Join a guild and play the game youre supposed to. I dont have social anxiety and Id rather watch paint dry than pug a raid.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Every successful run I did in VG involved a scourge support healer. They're clutch to beginner groups, more so than druids in my opinion, despite being overal more complex to use. I think that says Something. More so because most of those scourges were random players who joined in on our guild runs and played very well in spite of not knowing anyone in the team or their playstyle. I cant speak for all groups and all situations, but I'd say scourges are perfectly fine material for raids depending on the circumstances, just like pretty much every other class.

  • stone cold.8609stone cold.8609 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2019

    OP - So many things going on in your post. Your experience highlights a number of issues with this part of the game that new players face, IMO.

    First, GW2 PUG CM T4 and raid groups can be very intolerant of new players. There are many mechanics and details to the encounters to know and one person failing one of them can wipe the entire group. So, the PUGs put requirements in place to help ensure a successful run. Whether or not these requirements make sense is subject for another discussion. The way it currently is, it can be difficult to step up to CMs or raid groups because it can be hard to find training groups (especially for CMs). So it is a barrier to entry into this content and can be discouraging.

    Second, it is highly likely that in your successful run you didn't perform all of the mechanics correctly and were not performing to the level expected by someone who is more experienced. This is natural - there is a lot going on in this content. It takes more than 1 or 2 runs to sort all of this out, what the mechanics are, how to perform your rotations optimally in an actual raid situation. While you are sorting things out you are asking the other members of your party to cover for you to some extent and risk failing the encounter, and many PUG groups don't want to take this risk.

    Third, some PUGs at this level can be unaccepting of "non-meta" builds. This does not reflect the larger community and is not a reflection of the capability of your profession. Necros if played well are great in all of this content. It seems that much of the old dungeon speed runner elitism/toxicity (4 warrior/1 mesmer/zerk/5K AP/ping gear or kick - remember these?) ended up here.

    You either have to deal with things as they are and continue to PUG, try to find a good guild group to run with, or stop doing the content.

  • @Mikali.9651 said:
    well, if in real life

    And this post immediately means nothing

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:
    Nothing about exp but there were a couple with ping kp , but my point is how can you even gain exp if no one wants you in the group

    The KP and LI is the demand for proof of experience. Or at least successful boss kills.

    Especially Dhuum and Qadim are bosses where you will not just get to tag along. Way to many mechanics which unless practiced will wipe your entire raid.

    You getting kicked had nothing to do with being on necromancer but more with not pinging the relevant kill proof and/or LI.

    It has to do with necro.
    I recently joined some groups as necro, because I got kps on him.
    Instantly got kicked before I even had the chance to ping kps.

    Well, who is to blame?
    -necro has low single target DPS
    -and only average support
    The only thing necro is good at is rezzing people, but in my opinion, if you need to rezz someone, you failed your job as a support/healer

    Problem:
    If scourge gets more DPS, scourge stacking will be a thing again, so you don't need healers due to barrier overflow. Well there would be solutions

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:
    Nothing about exp but there were a couple with ping kp , but my point is how can you even gain exp if no one wants you in the group

    The KP and LI is the demand for proof of experience. Or at least successful boss kills.

    Especially Dhuum and Qadim are bosses where you will not just get to tag along. Way to many mechanics which unless practiced will wipe your entire raid.

    You getting kicked had nothing to do with being on necromancer but more with not pinging the relevant kill proof and/or LI.

    It has to do with necro.
    I recently joined some groups as necro, because I got kps on him.
    Instantly got kicked before I even had the chance to ping kps.

    Well, who is to blame?
    -necro has low single target DPS
    -and only average support
    The only thing necro is good at is rezzing people, but in my opinion, if you need to rezz someone, you failed your job as a support/healer

    Problem:
    If scourge gets more DPS, scourge stacking will be a thing again, so you don't need healers due to barrier overflow. Well there would be solutions

    No it doesn't. If you do not have the raid experience as to why TC got kicked, read my explanation above.

    TC was not kicked due to being necromancer in this instance. If you want to make this about necro in general, fine. But that has nothing to do with this specific instance and situation.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:
    Nothing about exp but there were a couple with ping kp , but my point is how can you even gain exp if no one wants you in the group

    The KP and LI is the demand for proof of experience. Or at least successful boss kills.

    Especially Dhuum and Qadim are bosses where you will not just get to tag along. Way to many mechanics which unless practiced will wipe your entire raid.

    You getting kicked had nothing to do with being on necromancer but more with not pinging the relevant kill proof and/or LI.

    It has to do with necro.
    I recently joined some groups as necro, because I got kps on him.
    Instantly got kicked before I even had the chance to ping kps.

    Well, who is to blame?
    -necro has low single target DPS
    -and only average support
    The only thing necro is good at is rezzing people, but in my opinion, if you need to rezz someone, you failed your job as a support/healer

    Problem:
    If scourge gets more DPS, scourge stacking will be a thing again, so you don't need healers due to barrier overflow. Well there would be solutions

    No it doesn't. If you do not have the raid experience as to why TC got kicked, read my explanation above.

    TC was not kicked due to being necromancer in this instance. If you want to make this about necro in general, fine. But that has nothing to do with this specific instance and situation.

    Ok your post sounded more like: it's only his fault, but it's clearly not all the time this players fault.

    The community (and anet) in general is pretty much ignoring a lot of things

    (Yes normally I'm also more like: I want to do my kills fast, but then, I'm not allowed to play my favourite class because it benches 4-6k below meta classes)

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2019

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:
    Nothing about exp but there were a couple with ping kp , but my point is how can you even gain exp if no one wants you in the group

    The KP and LI is the demand for proof of experience. Or at least successful boss kills.

    Especially Dhuum and Qadim are bosses where you will not just get to tag along. Way to many mechanics which unless practiced will wipe your entire raid.

    You getting kicked had nothing to do with being on necromancer but more with not pinging the relevant kill proof and/or LI.

    It has to do with necro.
    I recently joined some groups as necro, because I got kps on him.
    Instantly got kicked before I even had the chance to ping kps.

    Well, who is to blame?
    -necro has low single target DPS
    -and only average support
    The only thing necro is good at is rezzing people, but in my opinion, if you need to rezz someone, you failed your job as a support/healer

    Problem:
    If scourge gets more DPS, scourge stacking will be a thing again, so you don't need healers due to barrier overflow. Well there would be solutions

    No it doesn't. If you do not have the raid experience as to why TC got kicked, read my explanation above.

    TC was not kicked due to being necromancer in this instance. If you want to make this about necro in general, fine. But that has nothing to do with this specific instance and situation.

    Ok your post sounded more like: it's only his fault, but it's clearly not all the time this players fault.

    The community (and anet) in general is pretty much ignoring a lot of things

    (Yes normally I'm also more like: I want to do my kills fast, but then, I'm not allowed to play my favourite class because it benches 4-6k below meta classes)

    Go read what I wrote. This is a very specific situation. If you do not understand how Wing 5 works and what the fights require, I explained that up top.

    If you can find a wing 5 group which is looking for experienced players and is willing to take a fully inexperienced heal scourge to Dhuum, great. I doubt that will ever be the case. Dhuum is among the 2 hardest bosses with the most instant wipe mechanics in the game. It makes no difference with which class you join when you have no experience, you will get removed. Ergo, it was not due to him being on necromancer.

    He wasn't there as dps, he was on a support slot. Those do not get to afk Dhuum like some of the dps. The only thing you are proving here is that one can't take people with no experience along since some are to stubborn to even listen to advice and explanations.

  • Agrippa Oculus.3726Agrippa Oculus.3726 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @CountMozenrath.7631 said:
    Nothing about exp but there were a couple with ping kp , but my point is how can you even gain exp if no one wants you in the group

    The KP and LI is the demand for proof of experience. Or at least successful boss kills.

    Especially Dhuum and Qadim are bosses where you will not just get to tag along. Way to many mechanics which unless practiced will wipe your entire raid.

    You getting kicked had nothing to do with being on necromancer but more with not pinging the relevant kill proof and/or LI.

    It has to do with necro.
    I recently joined some groups as necro, because I got kps on him.
    Instantly got kicked before I even had the chance to ping kps.

    Well, who is to blame?
    -necro has low single target DPS
    -and only average support
    The only thing necro is good at is rezzing people, but in my opinion, if you need to rezz someone, you failed your job as a support/healer

    Problem:
    If scourge gets more DPS, scourge stacking will be a thing again, so you don't need healers due to barrier overflow. Well there would be solutions

    No it doesn't. If you do not have the raid experience as to why TC got kicked, read my explanation above.

    TC was not kicked due to being necromancer in this instance. If you want to make this about necro in general, fine. But that has nothing to do with this specific instance and situation.

    Ok your post sounded more like: it's only his fault, but it's clearly not all the time this players fault.

    The community (and anet) in general is pretty much ignoring a lot of things

    (Yes normally I'm also more like: I want to do my kills fast, but then, I'm not allowed to play my favourite class because it benches 4-6k below meta classes)

    Go read what I wrote. This is a very specific situation. If you do not understand how Wing 5 works and what the fights require, I explained that up top.

    If you can find a wing 5 group which is looking for experienced players and is willing to take a fully inexperienced heal scourge to Dhuum, great. I doubt that will ever be the case. Dhuum is among the 2 hardest bosses with the most instant wipe mechanics in the game. It makes no difference with which class you join when you have no experience, you will get removed. Ergo, it was not due to him being on necromancer.

    He wasn't there as dps, he was on a support slot. Those do not get to afk Dhuum like some of the dps. The only thing you are proving here is that one can't take people with no experience along since some are to stubborn to even listen to advice and explanations.

    I think that Nimon is not questioning your focus on the OP's particular case (and I wasn't either), although it's still a very specific focus (like you also mention yourself, btw), where you clearly jump into assumptions, which might be completely right, but still assumptions. You were not there with him/her while he/she was kicked (multiple times). And again, you might be completely right, and it sounds more than viable to me, that he/she was kicked at least once, for the reasons you mention. But he/she mentions multiple kicks! And to be fairly honest, being pre-kicked before you can even show your KP's, LI, etc. happens as well! And I don't even have to explain to you (I hope) for which reasons these particular pre-kicks happen, and which professions are mostly affected by these so called pre-kicks. It's a thing, you know! It happens! It's probably very hard for you to acknowledge it, but believe me, it happens!!!