Chrono+ druid vs Renebrand in fotm

Soo yea I know chrono can easily maintain perma quickness and Ala with 50%bd in raids. But in fotm u need 100% and land all ur wells and tots, while any splitting can badly affect ur uptime.In the same time, fb in full zerk keep perma quickness, while doing bs dps, Rene press 1 button to keep up alacrity.Don't get me wrong, I love build diversity and fact we don't have to play chrono anymore, but renebrand is just way ahead in terms of boons, dps and survivability. Chrono comps just struggle.Another thing is the duty contribution in renebrand comp. Fb deals better dps, has higher supporting abilities-perma protect, Aegis spam and perma stab), while Renee's job is to press F4, F1 off cd, occasionally F2 if bs don't take strength runes with dumplings, and kallas elite when available. Use staff 5 off CD and boonrip with npng. I feel It kinda boring, becouse than ur just maximizing ur dps to 10-15k dps (assuming ur on Shiro). Imo fb should get toned down a bit(both in pve and pvp) while rev could get a little buffs.Now wer coming to chrono part. Hard boon maintaining, no Aegis, only source of stab is spirit of nature(none in 3 dps comp). Chronos are forced to take illusions only to shorten CD on cs. I would be fine if we could occasionally take inspi for Aegis share on 30 s CD. Also, being interrupted in beggining of cs, just screws up boon uptime A LOT.The last thing may just be l2p issue, but imo, chrono comp is just harder to play, while being less rewarding. Renebrand just needs to stack together to be effective. I'm just simply asking for a little chrono comp buffs.Only reason ppl are asking in lfg for chrono is becouse: a) they didn't play renebrand, b) they are used to old comp c) ppl are afraid to put resources in gearing new classes, if meta can change soon

Because you don't need harrier druid neither ; Berserker druid + runes of strenght. Because Chrono also earn some DPS because of Diviner gear. Because chrono (diviner or harrier inspiration) + PS war +3 DPS is still very effective. Because of pull, TP.... Because of range. Because of CC. Because that right people are used to. Because DH can take stab too.

I was really happy that people have a look to Ren+FB; which exists long before SC or discretize suggest it, but it's an error to figure META comp because of golem without looking the new instabilities. The suggested meta is heal ren + power FB (because "higher DPS"), but actually the opposite (or diviner FB) offers more utilities, more ease, more "mechanic counter" more soulcleve uptime, and so better carry > More dps.

It still need decantation and some adjustments. For now people don't know if they gear harrier or diviner or zerk or vipere, scholar or pack, RR or LL in ren spec ... if they play with PS war (and so rune of strengt and/or sigil or food)

@"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:Because you don't need harrier druid neither ; Berserker druid + runes of strenght. Because Chrono also earn some DPS because of Diviner gear. Because chrono (diviner or harrier inspiration) + PS war +3 DPS is still very effective. Because of pull, TP.... Because of range. Because of CC. Because that right people are used to. Because DH can take stab too.

I was really happy that people have a look to Ren+FB; which exists long before SC or discretize suggest it, but it's an error to figure META comp because of golem without looking the new instabilities. The suggested meta is heal ren + power FB (because "higher DPS"), but actually the opposite (or diviner FB) offers more utilities, more ease, more "mechanic counter" and so better carry > More dps.

It still need decantation and some adjustments. For now people don't know if they gear harrier or diviner or zerk or vipere, scholar or pack ...

Yea I agree, but 3 dps comp with chrono has much less sustain and worse boons than fb rev both in zerk and diviner. That's imo the problem, that I hope will be balanced

LFG are still filled with chrono+druid. This composition definitely does not need an improvement. Chronomencer is exellent if your party knows how to stack and druid has spirits which are one of the best utility skills in the game.

I assume people are more accustomed to those two professions and already have geared characters. Not to mention that revenant is least played profession, which also hurts firebrand in return

@"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:Because you don't need harrier druid neither ; Berserker druid + runes of strenght. Because Chrono also earn some DPS because of Diviner gear. Because chrono (diviner or harrier inspiration) + PS war +3 DPS is still very effective. Because of pull, TP.... Because of range. Because of CC. Because that right people are used to. Because DH can take stab too.

I was really happy that people have a look to Ren+FB; which exists long before SC or discretize suggest it, but it's an error to figure META comp because of golem without looking the new instabilities. The suggested meta is heal ren + power FB (because "higher DPS"), but actually the opposite (or diviner FB) offers more utilities, more ease, more "mechanic counter" more soulcleve uptime, and so better carry > More dps.

It still need decantation and some adjustments. For now people don't know if they gear harrier or diviner or zerk or vipere, scholar or pack, RR or LL in ren spec ... if they play with PS war (and so rune of strengt and/or sigil or food)

This post makes me so angry. For one thing you are comparing what exactly? And then so much total nonsense. Higher kalla elite uptime? What? With most bosses phasing before you even run out of energy on first kalla elite? You know, 100% is cap. Berserker druid? Have you even TRIED that ever on golem? Put your pet passive and be surprised, you will barely even hit 9k. With pet thats 12k at the most. Non bursty 12k dmg. And you DO realize that you can use your tomes on power firebrand as well?

Shenanigans with switching out utilities and traits after singularity pre-stack aside, a diviner chrono most 17k, again no burst, last I checked.

So it comes down to numbers. 12k+17k -> 29k top dps from druid+chrono, with additional 4k from frost spirit. So you are at 33k.

Power firebrand is on par with power bannerwarrior, though with higher burst. So roundabout 24k on longer phases, around 30k on short phases. Power renegade is at around 22k without any burst. Kalla elite adds around 1-2k per other player. That means you are at 50-60k from renebrand. Roughly a third more dmg.

Now lets compare 1 healer comps, druid healer + diviner chrono -> 26krenegade healer + power firebrand -> 34-43k

The only reason to keep on using druid+chrono is because you are used to. Period. Just shows you can run pretty much every comp because gw2 so easy.

You are so angry because of +10K DPS for 2 supports ?? Wow, take holidays.Have you even >TRIED berserker druid to SAY it is 12K ? You're more arround 16-17k, because you may forget there were a lot of patchs after Hot Release, axe/sword/gs buffs etc. Have you even >TRIED 1 chrono 1 War comp ??The 30sec you win on a boss with ren-fb, chrono will double the time with portal to skip parts.I'm okai with FB+Ren, I love FB since Pof release and have 3 gears + a DH, but stuck *ss people "WE NEED TO KILL CHRONO META IT'S NOT OPTI" oh come on, please stop that it's really disturbing, and stupid. Why should it exists only one viable compo, and others comp is instant kick + black list ????? Praise Ren+FB, but don't bash Chrono on "-5k DPS" argument.

Edit you're the guy who take a PS war with FB-REN in fractals and talk about optimisation ? pls don't talk about comp only on the DPS criteria without a look on fractals and instabiltities.

@"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:You are so angry because of +10K DPS for 2 supports ?? Wow, take holidays.Have you even >TRIED berserker druid to SAY it is 12K ? You're more arround 16-17k, because you may forget there were a lot of patchs after Hot Release, axe/sword/gs buffs etc. Have you even >TRIED 1 chrono 1 War comp ??The 30sec you win on a boss with ren-fb, chrono will double the time with portal to skip parts.I'm okai with FB+Ren, I love FB since Pof release and have 3 gears + a DH, but stuck *ss people "WE NEED TO KILL CHRONO META IT'S NOT OPTI" oh come on, please stop that it's really disturbing, and stupid. Why should it exists only one viable compo, and others comp is instant kick + black list ????? Praise Ren+FB, but don't bash Chrono on "-5k DPS" argument.

Edit you're the guy who take a PS war with FB-REN in fractals and talk about optimisation ? pls don't talk about comp only on the DPS criteria without a look on fractals and instabiltities.

Actually vs new instabs, Renebrand is way better. Better prot, reduced received condi dmg, stability, heal from kalla elite, reflects. And kalla skill that interrupt every sec. It's op on trash mobs, they basicly doesn't attack. Chrono has skips, but rn, power chrono is in rly good spot in terms of dps AND the unused utility and elite slot, since mantra of pain and gravity well are rly small dps increase. While support chrono is forced to take woa wor soi and timewarp to upkeep 100%bd. Also Rene has much better cc than chrono.I don't know cuz I don't play druid, how much cc break it offers?

@"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:You are so angry because of +10K DPS for 2 supports ?? Wow, take holidays.Have you even >TRIED berserker druid to SAY it is 12K ? You're more arround 16-17k, because you may forget there were a lot of patchs after Hot Release, axe/sword/gs buffs etc. Have you even >TRIED 1 chrono 1 War comp ??The 30sec you win on a boss with ren-fb, chrono will double the time with portal to skip parts.I'm okai with FB+Ren, I love FB since Pof release and have 3 gears + a DH, but stuck *ss people "WE NEED TO KILL CHRONO META IT'S NOT OPTI" oh come on, please stop that it's really disturbing, and stupid. Why should it exists only one viable compo, and others comp is instant kick + black list ????? Praise Ren+FB, but don't bash Chrono on "-5k DPS" argument.

Edit you're the guy who take a PS war with FB-REN in fractals and talk about optimisation ? pls don't talk about comp only on the DPS criteria without a look on fractals and instabiltities.

Yes, I tried berserker druid, quite recently in fact. So yes, I know EXACTLY how much dps it does at the most on golem. So you can stop pulling random numbers out of your ass.

This thread is about DRUID + chrono, so you are offtopic with your 3 dps comp anyway.

And what the FUCK are you on about with PS? WHICHEVER trait would you INSTEAD bring on a power bannerwarrior? Synergy for 20 more dps? But only if theres a firefield to combo? Or... shout trait for that onetime healshout you are using as opener - if at all? Stop trying to defend your stupid idiotic traitline choices by trying to mock my very logical suggestion that all bannerwarriors should just stop being fucking idiots and just bring PS trait instead of renegades fucking over their alacrity uptime.And if theres still a problem with might - shouldnt be but there sometimes is... then bannerwarrior can just use cheap dumpling food without much dps loss, after all in groups that have might problems you dont phase fast enough for your max dps anyway. So what the fuck are you on about there?

Please start to use your brain before posting.

I'm quite interested how you rotate with druid, because I got 10K IN INSTANCE, and because if you look benchmark on YT and website berserker druid was 17k last year, I didn't see nerf since, so I'm concerned. I confess with strength runes you can lose 2k, but 12k ? May be swap weapons ?

And what the kitten are you on about with PS? WHICHEVER trait would you INSTEAD bring on a power bannerwarrior? Synergy for 20 more dps? But only if theres a firefield to combo? Or... shout trait for that onetime healshout you are using as opener - if at all? Stop trying to defend your stupid idiotic traitline choices by trying to mock my very logical suggestion that all bannerwarriors should just stop being kitten idiots and just bring PS trait instead of renegades kitten over their alacrity uptime.

That funny because all your posts on others topics were about berserker FB + diviner Ren, but you are scared about alacrity and not taking RR in a static group, and your "logical suggestion" to say to others who bring 25 mights and perma uptime alacrity on boss is that they are "wrong", but the clumsy loop of quickness of zerk FB ... don't worry it's okai!?? I'm a bit confused in that choice of priorities. Very low quickness margin ... convenient for CC phase at Artsariiv or where you kite a lot because of instabilities or aoe.And why not take more boon duration, equip mantra of liberation and Weighty term ? No need when you can lose seconds to dodge, jump, turn back etc, and don't forget your support lose 3k DPS on golem. What a logical suggestion.You made a compo for a static group, and that's great, but bash chrono+druid because you want to impose your choice to others, or bashing Diviner/Harrier/Vipere FB because of an idiot golem, no matter how you can carry the whole group in all fractals ... it makes me so angry.And all players don't have static, ( and knowledge, and skill...) and don't have patience to make 2 or 3 gears AND wait for a Ren or a FB to join with the ancillary gear. They want quickness, they want fury, they want aegis, they want to be babysitted when there are conditions, projectiles, daze/stun, they don't want to die because of little mistakes or clumsy coordination, they really don't care if you carry them to heaven but make 8k instead of 11k.Edit: chrono/druid have utilities and ease that FB and ren don't, and inversely. I don't see why there will not be place for both compo and we should absolutely ERASE from the game one of them.

@"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:I'm quite interested how you rotate with druid, because I got 10K IN INSTANCE, and because if you look benchmark on YT and website berserker druid was 17k last year, I didn't see nerf since, so I'm concerned. I confess with strength runes you can lose 2k, but 12k ? May be swap weapons ?

And what the kitten are you on about with PS? WHICHEVER trait would you INSTEAD bring on a power bannerwarrior? Synergy for 20 more dps? But only if theres a firefield to combo? Or... shout trait for that onetime healshout you are using as opener - if at all? Stop trying to defend your stupid idiotic traitline choices by trying to mock my very logical suggestion that all bannerwarriors should just stop being kitten idiots and just bring PS trait instead of renegades kitten over their alacrity uptime.

I will tell once again. In fight guardian can play dh or fb and he has to decide before fight what he's doing. If wer coming to chrono utilities, skips and pulls it can be done both by dps and a support, which means fb/Rev can still use it in t4s and rec.Btw I don't have in mind any utilities that druid has and Renebrand doesn't. (maybe range dmg to push away balls on skorvald)Edit: to sum up renebrand don't lose anything that chrono druid has

@Safandula.8723 said:

@"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:I'm quite interested how you rotate with druid, because I got 10K IN INSTANCE, and because if you look benchmark on YT and website berserker druid was 17k last year, I didn't see nerf since, so I'm concerned. I confess with strength runes you can lose 2k, but 12k ? May be swap weapons ?

And what the kitten are you on about with PS? WHICHEVER trait would you INSTEAD bring on a power bannerwarrior? Synergy for 20 more dps? But only if theres a firefield to combo? Or... shout trait for that onetime healshout you are using as opener - if at all? Stop trying to defend your stupid idiotic traitline choices by trying to mock my very logical suggestion that all bannerwarriors should just stop being kitten idiots and just bring PS trait instead of renegades kitten over their alacrity uptime.

Frost and sun spirits, spotter, GoE, against assassin presence and Soulcleave.Ren is not that easy to play, or more accurate it does not always correspond to group skill or situation, because of its energy management; like if you need CC, anti-proj, F2-F4,... you can sometimes be stucked in a latence waiting for energy or legend swap; FB is easier in this way, and druid too.Druid+chrono is still very effective todays, for simples reason : they are extremely accessible builds and safe for others members; range, aoe visibility... habits, also because of effectivness in 10 man squad + The most important : there are not a lot of ren. And if you find one + FB, this is not clear for all what gear to use, if healer needed and which one should be. So you can see situation where you expected reflects or long stab uptime but the guys are(see Yasi) zerk with few support skills, or not enough quickness/alacrity due to placement/range issue, or on the contrary you have 2 harriers/minstrel guys with heal oriented builds and so no dps, no bane signet etc. I 've also seen a Ren+FB, but ren was Condi DPS, and FB was 100% healing skills and traits, without quickness...

The meta is present, it is what people play with most efficiency and with ease, the meta is not hypothetical, like "people should play like that", nor on the single DPS criteria, nor effective for only few players/static, because it means it's not accessible for all ( otherwise people should play chrono +war since 3 years )And for now, chrono+druid/healer is still meta, Ren+FB has very strong potential and, with no doubt, should surpass chrono+druid, but it needs some adjustments to be better defined and accessible, and popularize. I'm not sure you understand my position : I love FB, I try hard FB and ren, but very often I don't find my complement or he's blind and useless, so I go harrier FB to carry players to heaven, like siren's reef with "We bleed fire" + "Birds", or deepstone etc, or I relog to chrono or DPS and the group in LFG fills 10 times faster ... It doesn't encourage to tryhard.

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:I'm quite interested how you rotate with druid, because I got 10K IN INSTANCE, and because if you look benchmark on YT and website berserker druid was 17k last year, I didn't see nerf since, so I'm concerned. I confess with strength runes you can lose 2k, but 12k ? May be swap weapons ?

And what the kitten are you on about with PS? WHICHEVER trait would you INSTEAD bring on a power bannerwarrior? Synergy for 20 more dps? But only if theres a firefield to combo? Or... shout trait for that onetime healshout you are using as opener - if at all? Stop trying to defend your stupid idiotic traitline choices by trying to mock my very logical suggestion that all bannerwarriors should just stop being kitten idiots and just bring PS trait instead of renegades kitten over their alacrity uptime.

Frost-psb, spotter becomes useless at some point, goe-it's the only one that's rly missing in fb Ren. Firebrand even in zerk can take reflection wall for the times when slb is not spinning.Yea it's clear Rene should heal, unless ur team is running from tablet. Ppl just are not interested in that becouse they are used to old comp. But set Renebrand comp just works better. (imo dps should be pchrono, and pslb, phases well enough while having highest utilities)

You trade Glyth of Empowerment for Bane Signet and Kalla's Fervor. You lose Frost Spirits but that can be taken care of by a Soulbeast given a perfect composition. Might, Fury and other boons you can handle easily. All of this has been said before. And the argument about which member of the FB / Renegade combo should be the Harrier support if needed mostly comes down to which build each individual has mastered themselves and about the bad experiences they have made with their complementory class. I obviously have my own preference but that is beside the point.

Arguing on the forums will do very little to speed up how things are done by PuGs. Consider that most groups on the LFG aren't filled with people who are able to have multiple supportive and offensive ascended sets and builds ready per class, let alone who are able to play them well. They go with what they know, what they have and what they expect from other players. New builds might be quickly picked up by certain people and statics but the majority is rather slow in adjusting.Pretty sure smoothly clearing content, even if a little slower than the speedclear META, is what PuG groups prefer which means they will eventually pick up FB / Renegade more frequently. But that will take time. People often assume something is best simply because it's what everyone plays. Which, at least to a certain degree, isn't the worst way of thinking even if it makes said changes in the PuG META a little slow and tedious.

@Safandula.8723 said:Imo fb should get toned down a bit(both in pve and pvp) while rev could get a little buffs.

I guess I'm fine with FB getting tuned down further in terms of 5 Man content (although, considering the amount of nerfs it has gotten, I'm not sure how to really do that anymore without breaking the spec), if Druid get's massively nerfed in terms of 10 man content with some further Chrono nerfs.

Yes, FB+Ren outperforms Druid+Chrono in Fractals, but looking at meta Raid comps, it's still 2-8 Mesmers + Druid on every single boss.I'm just glad there is the option for variety now, even it it might not be optimal.Doesn't really matter if you are running Chrono+Druid, FB+Rev, FB+Chrono etc, you will get through Fractals just fine, including CM's.

Considering how stupid vastly superior Chrono+Druid was in every single piece of PvE content compared to anything else for years, I'm just glad for every day were that's not the case anymore/again.

E:On a side node, with how vastly superior Chrono's utility is, such as skips, be it portal, blinks or stealth or even pulls for trash, Rev+FB should be the better in combat supports, as they are lacking the out of combat skips etc.

In fractals with long bossfights such as 99CM and 100CM renegade and firebrand (either harrier ren or diviner) is supperior to chrono + druid/3dps.

Chrono comes ahead in fractals with alot of small fightts with ads thanks to focus pull andthe fact that in those fights boons dont need to be perma but just few seconds and chronos boons are applied in longer interval so chrono chrono skipping once pulling and provading boons even if enemies are not slain yet

@Asum.4960 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Imo fb should get toned down a bit(both in pve and pvp) while rev could get a little buffs.

IMO fb needs further nerfs both in pvp and pve, it just has to much kits to let other supports be viable. 30 skills in total which gives to many possibilities. Or just rework the class

@"Safandula.8723" said:IMO fb needs further nerfs both in pvp and pve, it just has to much kits to let other supports be viable. 30 skills in total which gives to many possibilities. Or just rework the class

Right.. I feel like there's a pretty long list of "just rework x", which is easier said than done, and I personally feel FB is far from being on top of that list.

For sPvP, as long as the Meta is so incredibly bursty, I don't see Firebrand holding down any other supports. If you were to cripple FB further, the result would just be that no support is viable instead.For WvW, Guardian has always been the core of any zerg, and if you nerf FB to a point of being unplayable, it's core Guard again. Stab etc. is just too important, and a trademark of Guard, while lacking on other supports.For PvE, Firebrand isn't anywhere near as dominant as Chrono was for 3 years, or even still is, especially when taking into account Raids. Other supports and healer's are still perfectly fine to run in Fractals, and those that aren't are so because of their own deficiencies, not because of FB holding them down, imo.

Not saying there isn't still room to shave a bit off of FB, but it isn't anywhere near as much of an issue as Chrono was.I would rather like to see careful support Tempest, Scourge etc. buffs, with minor shaves to FB and Chrono at this point, than major swings.Balance of supports has come a long way since Anet dared to nerf the almighty chrono already.

@Asum.4960 said:

@"Safandula.8723" said:IMO fb needs further nerfs both in pvp and pve, it just has to much kits to let other supports be viable. 30 skills in total which gives to many possibilities. Or just rework the class

Yea I agree list of needed nerfs is long, but let's focus on supports. I didn't play all these classes so plz correct me if I'm wrong.In pve the must be boons are: quickness, fury, might and alacrity. Only classes that can provide alacrity are chrono and renegadeChrono provides quickness and ala, so 2nd support needs to cover fury and might(or at least part of it since bs can go strength runes). Scourge can cover only might, scrapper has highest healing, and I'm not sure what else does it bring-I never played it. Tempest has might, prot and druid covers perma might and fury.Rene covers some might(not perma), prot, can cover stab, and ofc alacrity. So we need rest of might, quickness and fury. Only 2 supports that I have in mind that covers quickness are fb and chrono. Chro o can't cover fury so choice is simple.The problem of comparing fb to many other support, is that it provides much more unique boons like prot stab Aegis spam. Same in pvp. It has just way to many boons that put other supports far far away.Also I didn't mention class specific buffs that are only offered by renegade and druid.IMO to solve this is to give more class specific buffs, give other classes ways to cover quickness and fury, but only if specifficly traited, which would prevent these classes from boon spamming in pvp/wvw as a dps

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:IMO fb needs further nerfs both in pvp and pve, it just has to much kits to let other supports be viable. 30 skills in total which gives to many possibilities. Or just rework the class

Yea, currently support Firebrand is almost like old Chrono, except without Alacrity, very low Vigor, weaker add pulls, no boon strip, vastly lower CC and no portal blink skips, but healing instead.I'm just not sure what boons you would "remove" from FB in particular, without crippling the comp as a whole too much or screwing other Guardian Builds/Specs by nerfing the core.

Something easier is, what boons need to be added to other supports instead to make them competitive.Scourge's boon support for example is laughable, but it wouldn't take too much creativity to make it competitive with Druid as a 10 man Might and Fury provider and healer. Tempest already isn't far off.Another thing that keeps them from competing are the mentioned unique buffs, or lack thereof. So they either need competitive unique buffs, unique buffs being removed from other supports (Druid), or have a kit strong enough that it competes despite of not having unique buffs.

Boons like Quickness are a dangerous thing to add to anything, considering it's power, so I'm kind of glad they are doing it sparingly. Not sure we will ever see it added to already existing Elite Specs as major component of their kit.Alacrity is in a similar spot.

But that leads us to the biggest reason other supports aren't viable, which is lack of Quickness and Alacrity, and with that, competing with Druid.If a spec doesn't have access to either one of those, the only support it can be paired with is Chrono, as it's the only spec providing both, which then means competing with Druid, which provides too many unique buffs to compete with, while being completely untouchable in Raids due to access to 10 man support like nothing else.

So we have a situation of either,a support provides Alacrity - can be paired with FB and technically Chrono, but has to compete with Renegade and to some extend Chrono (currently keeping no support from being viable)a support provides Quickness - can be paired with Renegade and technically Chrono, but has to compete with Firebrand and to some extend Chrono (currently keeping no support from being viable)a support provides both - can be paired with Druid etc, but has to compete with Chrono (currently keeping no support from being viable)a support provides neither - can be paired with Chrono, has to compete with Druid (the situation all the other supports are in)

As you can see, Firebrand isn't directly keeping any other support from being viable currently, in PvE at the very least. Quickness and Alacrity availability is.Once other specs have access to at least on of those boons in form of team support, FB, Renegade or Chrono might very well need more nerfs, but at this point, there isn't anything keeping other supports from being used, aside from them being lacklustre themselves.

Even if you strip away every boon from Firebrand but Quickness, it still would be the only Support to work with Renegade, aside from the omni tool that is Chrono, and wouldn't help any other support to become viable.It's not the same situation as old Chrono directly keeping FB+Ren (as only other Quickness + Alacrity alternative) from being viable, by providing literally everything and better.

TL;DRNerfing Firebrand won't make any other support in their current state viable.

@"Safandula.8723" said:Soo yea I know chrono can easily maintain perma quickness and Ala with 50%bd in raids. But in fotm u need 100% and land all ur wells and tots, while any splitting can badly affect ur uptime.In the same time, fb in full zerk keep perma quickness, while doing bs dps, Rene press 1 button to keep up alacrity.Don't get me wrong, I love build diversity and fact we don't have to play chrono anymore, but renebrand is just way ahead in terms of boons, dps and survivability. Chrono comps just struggle.Another thing is the duty contribution in renebrand comp. Fb deals better dps, has higher supporting abilities-perma protect, Aegis spam and perma stab), while Renee's job is to press F4, F1 off cd, occasionally F2 if bs don't take strength runes with dumplings, and kallas elite when available. Use staff 5 off CD and boonrip with npng. I feel It kinda boring, becouse than ur just maximizing ur dps to 10-15k dps (assuming ur on Shiro). Imo fb should get toned down a bit(both in pve and pvp) while rev could get a little buffs.Now wer coming to chrono part. Hard boon maintaining, no Aegis, only source of stab is spirit of nature(none in 3 dps comp). Chronos are forced to take illusions only to shorten CD on cs. I would be fine if we could occasionally take inspi for Aegis share on 30 s CD. Also, being interrupted in beggining of cs, just screws up boon uptime A LOT.The last thing may just be l2p issue, but imo, chrono comp is just harder to play, while being less rewarding. Renebrand just needs to stack together to be effective. I'm just simply asking for a little chrono comp buffs.Only reason ppl are asking in lfg for chrono is becouse: a) they didn't play renebrand, b) they are used to old comp c) ppl are afraid to put resources in gearing new classes, if meta can change soon

Okay, first of, Renegade + Firebrand will never outperform Chrono/Druid or Chrono + 3 dps in terms of clearing time. While your analysis is good, and that Firebrand + Renegade does provide many more boons, you are not taking into consideration the skips which chrono can do. And just for that chrono will always be way ahead of Renebrand. On top of that, Renebrand works in CM's but tend to perform less good if fights are too long, assuming that your renegade is running full diviner, either your renegade or firebrand will have to switch to healer.

Overall, if the Firebrand + Renegade are a pair and know how to play their class then yes. It is a good alternative. Since the last chrono CC nerfs, Firebrand + Renegade also provide way more CC

I had actually written a post about that a while ago https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/41897/how-long-should-you-take-to-clear-daily-fractals/p1

yeah lol, the other day when Amala had birds+fire+last laugh I had a DH in pug that was asking to get crono+duid. Like dude, wake up, what you crono +druid going to do here?

People want to nerf Firebrand in PvE? Am I dreaming? The class is barely taken in Raids and people still want Chrono + Druid everywhere!

@tim.4596 said:

@"Safandula.8723" said:Soo yea I know chrono can easily maintain perma quickness and Ala with 50%bd in raids. But in fotm u need 100% and land all ur wells and tots, while any splitting can badly affect ur uptime.In the same time, fb in full zerk keep perma quickness, while doing bs dps, Rene press 1 button to keep up alacrity.Don't get me wrong, I love build diversity and fact we don't have to play chrono anymore, but renebrand is just way ahead in terms of boons, dps and survivability. Chrono comps just struggle.Another thing is the duty contribution in renebrand comp. Fb deals better dps, has higher supporting abilities-perma protect, Aegis spam and perma stab), while Renee's job is to press F4, F1 off cd, occasionally F2 if bs don't take strength runes with dumplings, and kallas elite when available. Use staff 5 off CD and boonrip with npng. I feel It kinda boring, becouse than ur just maximizing ur dps to 10-15k dps (assuming ur on Shiro). Imo fb should get toned down a bit(both in pve and pvp) while rev could get a little buffs.Now wer coming to chrono part. Hard boon maintaining, no Aegis, only source of stab is spirit of nature(none in 3 dps comp). Chronos are forced to take illusions only to shorten CD on cs. I would be fine if we could occasionally take inspi for Aegis share on 30 s CD. Also, being interrupted in beggining of cs, just screws up boon uptime A LOT.The last thing may just be l2p issue, but imo, chrono comp is just harder to play, while being less rewarding. Renebrand just needs to stack together to be effective. I'm just simply asking for a little chrono comp buffs.Only reason ppl are asking in lfg for chrono is becouse: a) they didn't play renebrand, b) they are used to old comp c) ppl are afraid to put resources in gearing new classes, if meta can change soon

Your thread is lacking the most important composition: very well played meta statics without a healer.

I know speed clear groups which do CMs in support renegade, support fb, warrior and 2 dps (none of the supports healer) pushing 20k on each damage dealer and 10k on the supports. Druid is not meta in the top tier statics, it's meta in the good statics and top tier PUG groups.

That leads nicely into the issues this thread has, people are comparing apples to oranges difficulty wise.

A.) If we are comparing absolute clear times, then which level of player skill are we talking about? Because Renebrand beats out on dps without a healer.B.) If we are talking safest composition with mediocre clear times? Then Renebrand beats out again with more utility and easier uptime on boons as well as better heals.C.) If we are talking mediocre composition which also does chrono skips? Then chono+druid comes out ahead again.

This was all pre Tuesdays nerf to SoI. While Renebrand is even stronger now since Renegade got buffed.

Both compositions are still valid (though not perfectly played chrono groups will feel the lacking alacrity and quickness even more if they miss wells) but without skips, Renebrand is the safer and stronger composition overall. With skips factored in and perfect play, Renebrand still outperforms since they just save time on fights which the chrono+x comp has to make up for first.

I have both, - sup chrno and heal rene. Also complete's cms+t4 on both.The rene heal + fb heal + hybdrid sup scrourge I pref wiht guildmates or low grade pug's, to maximise nurse style. Also wiht non skilled ppl I avoid put so little wells on it(especial with social awayk) and believe that they got buff on 3 tick .. no way - no chance.

If this is strong 250+ kp I mostly use devine chrno, and no matter who is heal, or not heal at all, and no matter that instabilities it is.

@tim.4596 said:

@"Safandula.8723" said:Soo yea I know chrono can easily maintain perma quickness and Ala with 50%bd in raids. But in fotm u need 100% and land all ur wells and tots, while any splitting can badly affect ur uptime.In the same time, fb in full zerk keep perma quickness, while doing bs dps, Rene press 1 button to keep up alacrity.Don't get me wrong, I love build diversity and fact we don't have to play chrono anymore, but renebrand is just way ahead in terms of boons, dps and survivability. Chrono comps just struggle.Another thing is the duty contribution in renebrand comp. Fb deals better dps, has higher supporting abilities-perma protect, Aegis spam and perma stab), while Renee's job is to press F4, F1 off cd, occasionally F2 if bs don't take strength runes with dumplings, and kallas elite when available. Use staff 5 off CD and boonrip with npng. I feel It kinda boring, becouse than ur just maximizing ur dps to 10-15k dps (assuming ur on Shiro). Imo fb should get toned down a bit(both in pve and pvp) while rev could get a little buffs.Now wer coming to chrono part. Hard boon maintaining, no Aegis, only source of stab is spirit of nature(none in 3 dps comp). Chronos are forced to take illusions only to shorten CD on cs. I would be fine if we could occasionally take inspi for Aegis share on 30 s CD. Also, being interrupted in beggining of cs, just screws up boon uptime A LOT.The last thing may just be l2p issue, but imo, chrono comp is just harder to play, while being less rewarding. Renebrand just needs to stack together to be effective. I'm just simply asking for a little chrono comp buffs.Only reason ppl are asking in lfg for chrono is becouse: a) they didn't play renebrand, b) they are used to old comp c) ppl are afraid to put resources in gearing new classes, if meta can change soon

Ye chrono has unreplacable skips,thats for sure. Butfor t4s, 1 dps can switch to pchrono and problem solved, portals and blinks are not something unique to diviner stats. While full dps rev or fb will be useless(well, fb will stay as it is).