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Is Sharur worth the "Legendary Weapon" title?


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I was wondering, comparing, observating and I thought - is Sharur actually worth the title of a legendary weapon?

Now, don't get me wrong because I truly love this weapon and its theme. I really like the whole concept of Orr and I think it fits very nicely into that concept. But looking at it now, in comparison to other legendaries I started to wonder. Does it actually reflect the Orr or is tied to its theme? (Artists made a great job bringing this weapon to life.)I just don't see this weapon having real legendary features and I don't mean things like pillars of light or bomb dropping when you unsheath it. I think it actually helps the weapon stand out in terms of unsheath effects - the delicate sound during day and Zhaitan-like sound during night. The footsteps are very distinct from other legendaries and again - + for diiferentiation.

What I'm trying to say is that Sharur feels a bit unfinished. Though its effects are very polished, they are very subtle and unnoticable when you use it in combat, especially when you use it melee as except the projectile effect there is literally no other effect.I really like the day version of Sharur because you see that the magic of Orr infuses you, you hear it and your arms start to flow with magic - That's great! The night version (even thought it's really cool when you look at it standing still) is barely noticable in combat. The effect itself is very dark + the night makes it worse.Where is Zhaitan? The weapon is great but it doesn't embrace its full potential as others do. Claw of the Khan-Ur is a very similar legendary in terms of visual effects but you can clearly see that unsheathing is actually a special moment - you see the cubs and the Khan-Ur, thick orange mist, etc. I'd love to see the actual echo of Zhaitan, its actual infulence, not only corals and bones.

Now I want to highlight some of the features legendary weapons tend to have (i'll say which effects are minor and major for me, there are legendaries nailing it down though):

  • major - custom footsteps
  • minor - on-crit visual effect
  • minor - custom unsheath visual effect
  • minor custom arm/s effects for the one wielding the weapon
  • major on-swing effects (not all legendaries have that) - great for melee weapons, f.e. Incinerator, Frostfang, Sunrise, Juggernaut
  • major(for ranged weapons) - custom projectile effects - great for both ranged and melee weapons, f.e. Sharur, Predator, Nevermore, Claw of the Khan-Ur
  • minor - custom player aura that stays one the player after unsheathing the weapon - present in the Two-Handed weaponsFor me, major features have the biggest impact on the overall weapon feel when you use it. What's weird about Sharur is that there is no weapon aura which Twho-handed weapons tend to have. There are only arm effects which are pretty underwhelming for a big hammer.

What's present in Sharur:

  • custom footsteps
  • custom unsheath visual effect (present during day, with sound - no visual effect during night)
  • custom arm/s effects for the one wielding the weapon
  • custom projectile effects (only for 1 Revenant and 2 Scrapper skills)

So, what effects do melee users have (Guardian, Warrior, Scrapper)?

  • custom footsteps
  • custom unsheath visual effect (present during day, with sound - no visual effect during night)
  • custom arm/s effects for the one wielding the weaponAre these effects satisfying enough?

Let's compare Sharur to the Juggernaut.SHARUR vs. JUGGERNAUT

  • (Juggernaut) You've got a big visual tell upon unsheathing the weapon as your player is surrounded by the liquid metal, your armor material changes, you see the serpentine of liquid that falls rapidly. Pipe and orbs are emptied of liquid metal. When you swing your weapon, the liquid metal drops off your weapon and spills around you. Projectiles are the liquid metal itself. Footsteps are identical - you leave drops of liquid metal behind you.

  • (Sharur) DAY: Upon unsheathing, player is infused with the light aura followed by the magical sound. The orbs from the hammer's head are present and then everything but the arm effects disappears. NIGHT: Upon unsheathing, you hear the Zhaitan-like sound and your arms are surrounded by the corals, bones and Zhaitan stuff. Hammer cahnges slightly during day/night - most noticable are the orbs. The mechanism of the hammer starts to work and moves. Projectiles are identical - it's part of the mechanism from the hammer's head. During night the moving mechanism is replaced by on-grown necrotic bones scratching the head of hammer. Footseps vary - you leave drops of ghostly water and occassionally tentacles.

We can see that the amount of effects is similar in both cases. Juggernaut has on-swing effect but doesn't have sounds - Sharur has sounds but no on-swing effects.Now, you might already noticed what I'm getting at. Sharur isn't what it could be (thematically). Looking at people who have Sharur I think - Wow, this weapon's rare to see. When someone's using it don't see anything different but the on-arms effect, nothing else. Revenants being the only ranged users having the benefit of projectiles (+Scrappers) can only look at the tiny projectile during combat. Melee users don't have any in-combat benefits.

My suggestions:

  • give Sharur the aura that stays on player after the initial burst
  • give Sharur subtle on-swing effect (for the melee users)
  • embrace the Zhaitan theme during night

This weapon has a great potential and even though effects are very polished, the weapon feels rushed and skipped when it comes to a legendary weapon.

So, the final question - is Sharur worth the "Legendary Weapon" title?

Thanks for reading

@ArenaNet

EDIT: Added on-crit visual effect.

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Ive never seen sharur in action so it is tricky to judge it. I often find though, my fav legendaries are more understated in effects - Moot (original before the cartoony update), Chuka and Champawat, Rodgort, Kraitkin - all retain legendary effects without going over the top.

Ill have to look at Sharur a bit more. Like the new Mace, it doesnt scream legendary to me, but i might be missing some subtleties.

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one feature for legendary weapons that you have missed is on critical hit effect.for example the spear has a giant spirit shark appear when you crit with many of its attacks or the claw of khan ur does some flash on crit.so yeah that would be another option to add another effect to the weapon.

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@Randulf.7614 said:Ive never seen sharur in action so it is tricky to judge it. I often find though, my fav legendaries are more understated in effects - Moot (original before the cartoony update), Chuka and Champawat, Rodgort, Kraitkin - all retain legendary effects without going over the top.

Ill have to look at Sharur a bit more. Like the new Mace, it doesnt scream legendary to me, but i might be missing some subtleties.

That's my point. A legendary doesn't have to be screaming that it's a legendary. But there are some features which make the weapon special and the ones you mentioned are a great example of it. What was the Moot like before update?

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@MUDse.7623 said:one feature for legendary weapons that you have missed is on critical hit effect.for example the spear has a giant spirit shark appear when you crit with many of its attacks or the claw of khan ur does some flash on crit.so yeah that would be another option to add another effect to the weapon.

That's right, my bad. There are many cool effects which Sharur could have but just doesn't. The on-crit effect is a great thing and it makes the weapon special without the whole visual tell - I'm legendary, look at me!

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@"DonArkanio.6419" said:What I'm trying to say is that Sharur feels a bit unfinished.Some people prefer that. Some people want flash everywhere; some people want no flash. Given that there's only two legendary skins per weapon type, I think it's impressive that ANet has done as well as they have pleasing the community generally.

I think the "best" pair is probably Bolt + Shining Blade. One has literal flash; the other has stated elegance. Most people seem to like one and dislike the other (often passionately).

In the end, it's a matter of taste... and there's no accounting for it.

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I tend to not notice any of the legendary weapons I have when I am in group combat. Even The Dreamer and Quip can get lost with all the combat noise.
What I notice the most are the swap-too/wield effects, the footfalls, and so on. When I'm solo and in combat against trash mobs and such, the effects are more noticeable, but even then there are a few of them that just don't stand out at all. For example, other than the footfalls, I notice nothing about Kudzu. There is more floral action going on with a druid using a staff. Frenzy has some great wielded effects, but you have to be zoomed in a bit to see it, and since we don't walk under water, no foot falls. You have to look for the little fish effects when you are in motion.On the other end, I would say the ones I notice the most are going to be HOPE and Eternity. Eternity not only has the footfalls, but the blade effects are hard to miss, even out of combat. HOPE has nice footfalls, but isn't noticeable out of combat (which is fine). It's in combat effects are great though. The glow on the arm when using it, along with the visual and audio effects make it stand out more than others, but, again, in small-group/group/zerg situations, it just gets lost in all the other "noise".It's fine that in group settings that the weapons are not as easy to notice. The fact that they have all the effects going on has actually added to the visual noise issue.People have been asking for visual improvements to Kudzu for a long time (years), so I am doubtful anything will ever be changed with it. With the newer weapons, and some of the gen1, they do tend to hide.
I know I've noticed other players who have The Bifrost, or the Juggernaut, but I can't say I've ever seen a player who has The Minstrel, or The Shining Blade, etc.I'm not saying they all need to be made more noticeable, but I do add this as another reason I support having titles associated with having crafted these weapons.Currently the "prestige" of having a legendary is more likely to only impress the owner, not other players. I think Arenanet has failed a bit here with their idea of legendary weapons, in that the draw of owning one doesn't exist if people don't know they exist at all.

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@DonArkanio.6419 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Ive never seen sharur in action so it is tricky to judge it. I often find though, my fav legendaries are more understated in effects - Moot (original before the cartoony update), Chuka and Champawat, Rodgort, Kraitkin - all retain legendary effects without going over the top.

Ill have to look at Sharur a bit more. Like the new Mace, it doesnt scream legendary to me, but i might be missing some subtleties.

That's my point. A legendary doesn't have to be screaming that it's a legendary. But there are some features which make the weapon special and the ones you mentioned are a great example of it. What was the Moot like before update?

The original Moot had no square coloured footfalls (I dont think any gen 1 Legendary launched with footfalls), no rainbow sheen to the disco ball and no weird coloured streamers flying out.

I'll admit the rainbow tint is actually quite nice, altho the original was more silvery and reflective and really suited the game better without being too overt given what it was. The coloured trails are utterly awful and should never have been added or signed off on and footfalls are a bit of an unnecessary extravagance to keep adding in imo.

It was during their stage of taking Legendaries and messing with them and in my opinion, did more to take away from the original looks than enhance in most cases.

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I have Sharur and while its one of the best looking hammers, it would be nice to at least get some more visible footprints or something. During the day it is lacking in visual effects. According to gw2efficiency, its the rarest legendary with less than 0.3% of players owning one, while being one of the most expensive. I do agree that it shouldn't become a shiny beacon of particle effects like some other legendaries, but it is lacking visually in some way.

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@"Trise.2865" said:With thread after thread after thread after thread (ad nauseam) complaining about visual noise in the game, it only makes sense they'd try to reduce over-the-top flashy effects from Legendary Weapons moving forward.

Well the visual noise is something GW2 struggles with a lot. I understand that legendaries add to the pile of shiny effects but partly because of the visual noise legendaries are barely noticable in combat. I was totally shocked when I saw the effects of Elementalist's Sword autoattack which look like they were of "legendary weapon quality". This kind of things can outshine the weapon itself. What's the point in having Bolt on Elementalist if you'd actually limit yourself to 1 element, when you can have 3 4 cooler, on demand effects.I'm getting off my point, but I hope you get what I mean. In my opinion it should be legendaries that stand out in the croud and all the effects but I totally get what you mean.

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@Khisanth.2948 said:Such a long post for a simple thing. Make it if you like how it looks otherwise don't. If you just need stat swapping then get The Juggernaut, its cheaper.

Well, I don't think you actally got my point.What I'm saying is that some legendaries, and our subject - Sharur, tend to have very underwhelming effects when it comes to a legendary weapon. There is no need for it to scream with shiny particle effects but if it's not about the stat-swap, then its about the look. And I think it's hard to enjoy the way your legendary weapon works when in comparison to other, it hardly makes it feel legendary.It's just not about the shiny stuff but getting the weapon and its design to its fullest potential.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"DonArkanio.6419" said:What I'm trying to say is that Sharur feels a bit unfinished.Some people prefer that. Some people want flash everywhere; some people want no flash. Given that there's only two legendary skins per weapon type, I think it's impressive that ANet has done as well as they have pleasing the community generally.

I think the "best" pair is probably Bolt + Shining Blade. One has literal flash; the other has stated elegance. Most people seem to like one and dislike the other (often passionately).

In the end, it's a matter of taste... and there's no accounting for it.

True, it is a matter of taste.But objectively - do you think that legendaries such as Flames of War or Sharur are the best they could be? In my opinion not. These are the kinds weapon that have a great theme, they are actually tied to the Tyria in some way. They feel like an actual artifacts because we don't know of other Sharurs or etc. Yet they kind of fail to deliver the feel of its theme.My statement - if there's something that makes a legendary good, make it better and capture that momentum of unsheathing it. When you use Claw of the Khan-Ur you literally see the Charr and footsteps are also theirs. If you make a staff named Bifrost, make it an actual rainbow bridge to Valhalla. Using Bolt literally infuses you with electricity and lightning.

So what I'd expect from legendaries is to make you feel the presence of Balthazar when you use Flames of War (I'm exaggrating here a bit) and think of Orr when you use the Sharur.

Although I don't like the Shining Blade because of its footsteps I think this is a gorgeous design. The sound and visual effects are absolutely fantastic when it comes to the theme of weapon.

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@"Neural.1824" said:I tend to not notice any of the legendary weapons I have when I am in group combat. Even The Dreamer and Quip can get lost with all the combat noise.

What I notice the most are the swap-too/wield effects, the footfalls, and so on. When I'm solo and in combat against trash mobs and such, the effects are more noticeable, but even then there are a few of them that just don't stand out at all. For example, other than the footfalls, I notice nothing about Kudzu. There is more floral action going on with a druid using a staff. Frenzy has some great wielded effects, but you have to be zoomed in a bit to see it, and since we don't walk under water, no foot falls. You have to look for the little fish effects when you are in motion.On the other end, I would say the ones I notice the most are going to be HOPE and Eternity. Eternity not only has the footfalls, but the blade effects are hard to miss, even out of combat. HOPE has nice footfalls, but isn't noticeable out of combat (which is fine). It's in combat effects are great though. The glow on the arm when using it, along with the visual and audio effects make it stand out more than others, but, again, in small-group/group/zerg situations, it just gets lost in all the other "noise".It's fine that in group settings that the weapons are not as easy to notice. The fact that they have all the effects going on has actually added to the visual noise issue.People have been asking for visual improvements to Kudzu for a long time (years), so I am doubtful anything will ever be changed with it. With the newer weapons, and some of the gen1, they do tend to hide.

I know I've noticed other players who have The Bifrost, or the Juggernaut, but I can't say I've ever seen a player who has The Minstrel, or The Shining Blade, etc.I'm not saying they all need to be made more noticeable, but I do add this as another reason I support having titles associated with having crafted these weapons.Currently the "prestige" of having a legendary is more likely to only impress the owner, not other players. I think Arenanet has failed a bit here with their idea of legendary weapons, in that the draw of owning one doesn't exist if people don't know they exist at all.

That's what I'm also getting at. There is a problem in getting the right feel of some of the legendaries. As I mentioned above - Shining Blade is a great example of a design well done. There is a clear visual tell, nearly a flag-like effect that fits perfectly to the weapon's theme. The sound is fantastic because it's a raw metal sword that makes you feel and hear - blade. And I know it's also hard to notice but this is the one that I immediately recognise and see when the sound pops.There are legendaries that you mention which technically disappear when there is a larger group of allies or even enemy NPCs.Talking about effects of the Spec-weapons, I was shocked when I saw the Elementalist's Sword effects. I immediately thought - "What? These look better than the Bolt!". Why would you equip Bolt if you can have 4 separate, on demand effects that look even better and make the legendary feel lacking features when compared. This all adds to the unneccesery visual noise. These should be the legendaries that stand out of the crowd, not random effects that make it disappear. And I know - there are some great effects in the game but the problem is that they make legendaries less exciting and ANet could think of it and balance it out.Btw, the titles connected with legendaries would be a great idea. That is very little work for greater effect, and you can always just switch it if you don't like it.

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Ive never seen sharur in action so it is tricky to judge it. I often find though, my fav legendaries are more understated in effects - Moot (original before the cartoony update), Chuka and Champawat, Rodgort, Kraitkin - all retain legendary effects without going over the top.

Ill have to look at Sharur a bit more. Like the new Mace, it doesnt scream legendary to me, but i might be missing some subtleties.

That's my point. A legendary doesn't have to be screaming that it's a legendary. But there are some features which make the weapon special and the ones you mentioned are a great example of it. What was the Moot like before update?

The original Moot had no square coloured footfalls (I dont think any gen 1 Legendary launched with footfalls), no rainbow sheen to the disco ball and no weird coloured streamers flying out.

I'll admit the rainbow tint is actually quite nice, altho the original was more silvery and reflective and really suited the game better without being too overt given what it was. The coloured trails are utterly awful and should never have been added or signed off on and footfalls are a bit of an unnecessary extravagance to keep adding in imo.

It was during their stage of taking Legendaries and messing with them and in my opinion, did more to take away from the original looks than enhance in most cases.

And this is just adding the effects to the weapon that doesn't really need this. Or it could be done in a better way but they decided to go for quantity over quality and that's what bothers me.

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@Bort.8647 said:I have Sharur and while its one of the best looking hammers, it would be nice to at least get some more visible footprints or something. During the day it is lacking in visual effects. According to gw2efficiency, its the rarest legendary with less than 0.3% of players owning one, while being one of the most expensive. I do agree that it shouldn't become a shiny beacon of particle effects like some other legendaries, but it is lacking visually in some way.

That's the point, it doesn't have to be a light flash to make it legendary. Just expand its theme so upon unsheathing Sharur you can actually think of Orr. I personally like the footfalls as they are and the day version feels more legendary to me because at night I can't really notice any changes on my character. I wonder why didn't they give Sharur full aura effects like all Two-Handed weapons tend to have.So the weapon itself is expensive, people have no interest in doing it because of the lacking legendary features.

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@"DonArkanio.6419" said:True, it is a matter of taste.But objectively - do you think that legendaries such as Flames of War or Sharur are the best they could be?I don't think there can be an "objective" answer to that question.

Take the Oscar choice for best film. Academy members don't separate their emotional feelings from watching the film from whether it's well crafted. That's why some years, we see the "feel good" movie winning, other years, the envelope tells us it's one that put everything together in the best possible way.

You have expectations for what "legendary" means that don't match other people's preconceptions. And that's fine. You might even find that the vast majority of players agree and the minority that doesn't might not object much. But that's different from trying to establish some sort of objective criteria and deciding by committee whether any particular weapon meets those standards.

Regarding the specific weapons: I'm afraid I do think that Flames of War is as good as it can be for that design choice, but I happen to hate that design choice. There's absolutely no tweak that could be made at this point that would make me want to wield that. Sharur... if I used hammer, I'd choose that one over Juggernaut, but it would be close: I like both and I have no concerns about the amount of flash in each.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"DonArkanio.6419" said:True, it is a matter of taste.But objectively - do you think that legendaries such as
Flames of War
or
Sharur
are the best they could be?I don't think there can be an "objective" answer to that question.

Take the Oscar choice for best film. Academy members don't separate their emotional feelings from watching the film from whether it's well crafted. That's why some years, we see the "feel good" movie winning, other years, the envelope tells us it's one that put everything together in the best possible way.

You have expectations for what "legendary" means that don't match other people's preconceptions. And that's fine. You might even find that the vast majority of players agree and the minority that doesn't might not object much. But that's different from trying to establish some sort of objective criteria and deciding by committee whether any particular weapon meets those standards.

Regarding the specific weapons: I'm afraid I do think that
Flames of War
is as good as it can be for that design choice, but I happen to hate that design choice. There's absolutely no tweak that could be made at this point that would make me want to wield that. Sharur... if I used hammer, I'd choose that one over Juggernaut, but it would be close: I like both and I have no concerns about the amount of flash in each.

In the end, everything is an opinion, except physics and biology (and people argue over these too). But there certainly is a level of quality that makes the weapon legendary. The amount of features, quality or even the prestige itself. I suppose everyone would be upset if they threw a random skin and give it 2 effects. Even some of the Fused weapons could be legendary if got a sound and footsteps, and I agree - that is of individual taste. However, as statistics say Sharur is the rarest to see amongst all legendaries which makes it 1. underwhelming or 2. not interesting enough for the amount of work it takes to make a legendary weapon.I really like that weapon and as I said - it's very polished and effects, though they are very minor, are nice.There is a category of weapons they made and called it legendary and my question is - Does Sharur fill in the standards of the other legendaries?

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@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:I actually hope the Gen 2 great sword is more subtle and smaller than Twilight/Dusk/Eternity because it'd be nice to have a legendary greatsword that doesn't have you carrying around a giant paddle/anime sword.

Yeah, the legendary doesn't have to scream: "Look at me, I'm legendary, I'm shiny!". Even if it's more subtle, it can be made a great weapon. I love Verdarach which is barely noticable when stowed, but when you unsheath it, you just know it's Grenth. The ghost, sounds and just a proper visual momentum makes it special to me.

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@"DonArkanio.6419" said:I was wondering, comparing, observating and I thought - is Sharur actually worth the title of a legendary weapon?

Are you being serious? :o It is the only decent looking one from the Generation 2.5 set. I just got it last week, in spite of the funless way of crafting it, simply because it looks so cool!

  1. Not as oversized as most other legendaries (especially those of Gen 2.5). :+1:
  2. Decent design, nothing too fancy or (as is the case with most) tacky and kitten-behind ugly. :+1:
  3. Nice, subtle "shiny water" effect on the skin. :+1:
  4. Cool drawing effect. :+1:
  5. Interesting, animated "undead themed" night skin (re: Orr).
  6. Acceptable footsteps (not like the exaggerated ones on "Eternity", which ruin the skin for me). :+1:
  7. No annoying drawing and combat sounds, also subtle and classy. :+1:
  8. No overdone combat effects that will add to the already annoying visual noise of the game.

What's there not to like?? I don't want clown skins, only so people will recognize from a mile away that I am carrying a "legendary" weapon ("Oooh! I feel so special!"). I want decent weapon designs - and Sharur delivers.

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"DonArkanio.6419" said:I was wondering, comparing, observating and I thought - is Sharur actually worth the title of a legendary weapon?

Are you being serious? :o It is the
only
decent looking one from the Generation 2.5 set. I just got it last week, in spite of the funless way of crafting it, simply because it looks so cool!
  1. Not as oversized as most other legendaries (especially those of Gen 2.5). :+1:
  2. Decent design, nothing too fancy or (as is the case with most) tacky and kitten-behind ugly. :+1:
  3. Nice, subtle "shiny water" effect on the skin. :+1:
  4. Cool drawing effect. :+1:
  5. Interesting, animated "undead themed" night skin (re: Orr).
  6. Acceptable footsteps (not like the exaggerated ones on "Eternity", which ruin the skin for me). :+1:
  7. No annoying drawing and combat sounds, also subtle and classy. :+1:
  8. No overdone combat effects that will add to the already annoying visual noise of the game.

What's there not to like?? I don't want clown skins, only so people will recognize from a mile away that I am carrying a "legendary" weapon ("Oooh! I feel so special!"). I want decent weapon designs - and Sharur delivers.

And now how different opinions are: I find it extremely underwhelming and absolutely not worth the legendary status. It's shape and size is underwhelming, the only thing I more or less like is the night-version. I think Genesis and Entropy much more legendary-like.

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