Bulwark Gyro/Guard! are multiplicative - Dolyak Stance is additive — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Bulwark Gyro/Guard! are multiplicative - Dolyak Stance is additive

Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭
edited February 18, 2019 in PVP

Basically what this means is that bulwark gyro/guard! will only ever give 33% dmg reduction if you don't have protection. If you have protection, you only get about a 9% dmg reduction or so. A massive waste of a utility slot.

Dolyak stance is additive. This means 66% dmg reduction with just dolyak stance and prot. Becomes even more disgusting in WvW. Soulbeast is a well balanced class.

Comments

  • Interesting. I read on gw2 wiki that all damage increase %s and damage reduction %s are multiplicative. Sounds like it could be a bug if what you say is true, and a gamechanging bug at that.

    If this effect intended and not unique, a list of which traits/abilities are multiplicative vs which are additive would be very helpful for creating new builds.

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭

    Was testing with friends in guild hall the other day. You can achieve literal -100% dmg reduction under the right circumstances. Didn't test scrapper runes but we assume they are additive since it's only 7%:

    Prot - Additive/Baseline
    Frost Aura - Additive
    Dolyak Stance - Additive
    Iron Blood - Additive
    "Guard!" - Multiplicative
    Bulwark Gyro - Multiplicative
    Food - Additive/Baseline if no Prot
    Light Density Amplifier - Additive
    Spectrum Shield - Additive
    Rite of the Great Dwarf - Multiplicative
    Second Skin, Dolyak Stance - Additive for Condi

  • @Ruufio.1496 said:
    Was testing with friends in guild hall the other day. You can achieve literal -100% dmg reduction under the right circumstances. Didn't test scrapper runes but we assume they are additive since it's only 7%:

    Prot - Additive/Baseline
    Frost Aura - Additive
    Dolyak Stance - Additive
    Iron Blood - Additive
    "Guard!" - Multiplicative
    Bulwark Gyro - Multiplicative
    Food - Additive/Baseline if no Prot
    Light Density Amplifier - Additive
    Spectrum Shield - Additive
    Rite of the Great Dwarf - Multiplicative
    Second Skin, Dolyak Stance - Additive for Condi

    beautiful work thank you mate

  • Kraljevo.2801Kraljevo.2801 Member ✭✭✭

    Why did dolyak stance even get buffed? It was a pretty good skill before the buff.

    Why do we need more skills that do 20 different things at once?

  • Crystal Paladin.3871Crystal Paladin.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019

    @Kraljevo.2801 said:
    Why did dolyak stance even get buffed? It was a pretty good skill before the buff.

    Why do we need more skills that do 20 different things at once?

    It's not buffed Imo... They removed retaliation(coz DE suicide themselves by getting retaliated) and increased a flat 10 secs cool down from existing 30 secs to total 40 secs cool down... Once used up, need to wait a looong time...

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

    @Kraljevo.2801 said:
    Why did dolyak stance even get buffed? It was a pretty good skill before the buff.

    Why do we need more skills that do 20 different things at once?

    It's not buffed Imo... They removed retaliation(coz DE suicide themselves by getting retaliated) and increased a flat 10 secs cool down from existing 30 secs to total 40 secs cool down... Once used up, need to wait a looong time...

    They also made it reduce condition damage by 33% in that same patch, funny how you forgot that.

    Dolyak Stance: This skill no longer applies retaliation. Instead, it now reduces incoming condition damage and physical damage by 33% for the duration of the stance in addition to its other effects.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62731/game-update-notes-december-11-2018#latest

    Curiously they didn't increase the cool down in WvW, I guess there's a lot of ranger main devs in WvW if you subscribe to GW2 conspiracy theories!

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

    @Kraljevo.2801 said:
    Why did dolyak stance even get buffed? It was a pretty good skill before the buff.

    Why do we need more skills that do 20 different things at once?

    It's not buffed Imo... They removed retaliation(coz DE suicide themselves by getting retaliated) and increased a flat 10 secs cool down from existing 30 secs to total 40 secs cool down... Once used up, need to wait a looong time...

    They also made it reduce condition damage by 33% in that same patch, funny how you forgot that.

    Dolyak Stance: This skill no longer applies retaliation. Instead, it now reduces incoming condition damage and physical damage by 33% for the duration of the stance in addition to its other effects.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62731/game-update-notes-december-11-2018#latest

    Curiously they didn't increase the cool down in WvW, I guess there's a lot of ranger main devs in WvW if you subscribe to GW2 conspiracy theories!

    Yeah. The idea that 33% additional damage and condition damage reduction that combined with protection was this brutal, crippling nerf to Boonbeast because they lost retaliation is a joke.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • @apharma.3741 said:
    Curiously they didn't increase the cool down in WvW, I guess there's a lot of ranger main devs in WvW if you subscribe to GW2 conspiracy theories!

    :/ you say that as if it's a ranger only thing. A lot of WvW skills don't get the same changes as their sPvP counterparts, instead keeping it closer to what it is in PvE.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    Was testing with friends in guild hall the other day. You can achieve literal -100% dmg reduction under the right circumstances. Didn't test scrapper runes but we assume they are additive since it's only 7%:

    Prot - Additive/Baseline
    Frost Aura - Additive
    Dolyak Stance - Additive
    Iron Blood - Additive
    "Guard!" - Multiplicative
    Bulwark Gyro - Multiplicative
    Food - Additive/Baseline if no Prot
    Light Density Amplifier - Additive
    Spectrum Shield - Additive
    Rite of the Great Dwarf - Multiplicative
    Second Skin, Dolyak Stance - Additive for Condi

    so did they only change spectrum shield for pvp? cuz I definitely remember them changing it from additive to multiplicative.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    Was testing with friends in guild hall the other day. You can achieve literal -100% dmg reduction under the right circumstances. Didn't test scrapper runes but we assume they are additive since it's only 7%:

    Prot - Additive/Baseline
    Frost Aura - Additive
    Dolyak Stance - Additive
    Iron Blood - Additive
    "Guard!" - Multiplicative
    Bulwark Gyro - Multiplicative
    Food - Additive/Baseline if no Prot
    Light Density Amplifier - Additive
    Spectrum Shield - Additive
    Rite of the Great Dwarf - Multiplicative
    Second Skin, Dolyak Stance - Additive for Condi

    so did they only change spectrum shield for pvp? cuz I definitely remember them changing it from additive to multiplicative.

    https://imgur.com/YdWhWyj
    Sorry for bad image.

    Seems that way... 903 with prot and then halved (451) with spectrum shield. So many inconsistencies in this game...

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    Retaliation is op in WvW and with stance share people one shot themselves over someone pressing one button. Buffs are still over the top and after the nerf of SB warrior there aren't many that can deal with boonbeast on point, you aren't going to send the scourge there.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    Was testing with friends in guild hall the other day. You can achieve literal -100% dmg reduction under the right circumstances. Didn't test scrapper runes but we assume they are additive since it's only 7%:

    Prot - Additive/Baseline
    Frost Aura - Additive
    Dolyak Stance - Additive
    Iron Blood - Additive
    "Guard!" - Multiplicative
    Bulwark Gyro - Multiplicative
    Food - Additive/Baseline if no Prot
    Light Density Amplifier - Additive
    Spectrum Shield - Additive
    Rite of the Great Dwarf - Multiplicative
    Second Skin, Dolyak Stance - Additive for Condi

    My guess is that these were originally all programmed to be additive, and they were only changed to multiplicative in specific cases where the reduction of the skill is too much. Dolyak stance just reduces damage since the last patch, so I bet they forgot about the stack method and left it additive.

    Hence, hopefully the devs are now aware of this and will change it to multiplicative stacking (at least for the physical reduction part).

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.