Regarding Core Guard

What is the point of Anet making Elite Specs explicitly stronger than their core counterparts if there are exceptions? I thought the idea was to make people feel like they NEED to buy expansions in order to be the most effective.

fireband is way better than core guard in pretty much every way.. even radiant one but it's hard to play.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with people sticking to just core guard as well. i rather not see anyone below plat playing fireband.

@Liza.2758 said:fireband is way better than core guard in pretty much every way.. even radiant one but it's hard to play.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with people sticking to just core guard as well. i rather not see anyone below plat playing fireband.

I see very good bunker FBs in Platinum but I think I've only ever seen one burn FB who was in any way effective. Scarcely a game goes by without there being 2 core guards on both teams. Because of my experience encountering bunker FBs, I know people will go to the effort to learn FB; so it's hard to believe when you say that damage FB is at all comparable to core guard. This is only anecdotal though ofc.

It's good that a core class is still strong and viable in PvP.

Unfortunately, that is not the case for most classes. But as long as they are not overpowered then this is a good thing.

I always get upset when I see Core Necros and ask whether they are high or just stupid for not picking Scourge or Reaper.

@Ovark.2514 said:

@"Liza.2758" said:fireband is way better than core guard in pretty much every way.. even radiant one but it's hard to play.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with people sticking to just core guard as well. i rather not see anyone below plat playing fireband.

the beauty of hybrid FB is the AOE which is effective against Mesmer.

you don't have to deal with " Re targeting " at all

everytime i saw Messy on stream. i don't think he can lose anyone 1 v 1.

@OutOfOrder.3719 said:It's good that a core class is still strong and viable in PvP.

Unfortunately, that is not the case for most classes. But as long as they are not overpowered then this is a good thing.

I always get upset when I see Core Necros and ask whether they are high or just stupid for not picking Scourge or Reaper.

Yes I agree it is a good thing that a core class is viable in PvP. Problems arise however when that core class is effective against almost every other build' as core guard is. I feel like the jury is still out on how overpowered the build is. . . As for core necros, one of the builds I play get super shut down by a core necro but has little problem against Scourge or Reaper. Core neco has a place.

uhm, I am pretty sure ANet has stated before they meant elite specs to be "sidegrades" to core ones, not upgrades.

The powercreep with expansions is real, but probably not intentional. So it makes sense that after a round of balances some core specs manage to perform better than others.

Considering that firebrand is either support or condition based, is it any surprise it may not do better than a power spec? (of course, dragon hunter needs a little help here as well).

I don't understand why people are upset that core builds can compete?

It would be great to see more core builds viable, and more HoT builds too.

@Ovark.2514 said:

@OutOfOrder.3719 said:It's good that a core class is still strong and viable in PvP.

Unfortunately, that is not the case for most classes. But as long as they are not overpowered then this is a good thing.

I always get upset when I see Core Necros and ask whether they are high or just stupid for not picking Scourge or Reaper.

Core guard effective against almost every build? That's an L U L from me buddy. Have you tried dodging one of the two damaging abilities?

core guard is weak.there was 0 core guards in tol finals, winrate of most core guards in Season 10.232 is around 50%, no core guard in top 10,also gets hardcountered by dp thiefs. core guard just gets cyberbullied by Mirage mains.

@dominik.9721 said:core guard is weak.there was 0 core guards in tol finals, winrate of most core guards in Season 10.232 is around 50%, no core guard in top 10,also gets hardcountered by dp thiefs. core guard just gets cyberbullied by Mirage mains.

Last season core guard winrate was second place after boonbeast ! got the stat from Ben live on twitch like some weeks ago !

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@dominik.9721 said:core guard is weak.there was 0 core guards in tol finals, winrate of most core guards in Season 10.232 is around 50%, no core guard in top 10,also gets hardcountered by dp thiefs. core guard just gets cyberbullied by Mirage mains.

So im guessing DH will get nerfed then...

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@dominik.9721 said:core guard is weak.there was 0 core guards in tol finals, winrate of most core guards in Season 10.232 is around 50%, no core guard in top 10,also gets hardcountered by dp thiefs. core guard just gets cyberbullied by Mirage mains.

It does cuz it’s very effective against clueless. I am woundering what is the win rate above 1600 rating games. You see how this win rate across the board is not representative of much.

@dominik.9721 said:core guard is weak.there was 0 core guards in tol finals, winrate of most core guards in Season 10.232 is around 50%, no core guard in top 10,also gets hardcountered by dp thiefs. core guard just gets cyberbullied by Mirage mains.

Dude, dp thiefs and mirages specifically would not like to fight core guardian. Ask any mirage what is their worst matchup. It is guaranteed to be core guardian.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@OutOfOrder.3719 said:It's good that a core class is still strong and viable in PvP.

Unfortunately, that is not the case for most classes. But as long as they are not overpowered then this is a good thing.

I always get upset when I see Core Necros and ask whether they are high or just stupid for not picking Scourge or Reaper.

I agree with you, but considering most core guardians are using GS now, it is not that simple. Especially, if you are playing a melee build.

Bottom line is, it is a strong build, that could be used effectively in most sPvP conditions. It surely is not top tier. It struggles heavily from boon rip and CC. It is not a strong solo. It does not do well against focus fire and has no out of combat mobility. It’s strong suit is high damage and strong healing. It can be countered as long as you do not face tank.

your name obviously must be otto to not get the irony of this post to meme flänby's mirage posts

@otto.5684 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@dominik.9721 said:core guard is weak.there was 0 core guards in tol finals, winrate of most core guards in Season 10.232 is around 50%, no core guard in top 10,also gets hardcountered by dp thiefs. core guard just gets cyberbullied by Mirage mains.

@dominik.9721 said:core guard is weak.there was 0 core guards in tol finals, winrate of most core guards in Season 10.232 is around 50%, no core guard in top 10,also gets hardcountered by dp thiefs. core guard just gets cyberbullied by Mirage mains.

Well it depends ... DP thief can survive quite easily if they have their heal up to remove the immob. And mirage can still dodge while immob (but first you need to catch them) soo ... really it depends but i don't really feel like mirage is one of the easiest target to put down :D but yeah mirage scares me less on Core guard than on any other spec in term of dmg output.

@otto.5684 said:

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@dominik.9721 said:core guard is weak.there was 0 core guards in tol finals, winrate of most core guards in Season 10.232 is around 50%, no core guard in top 10,also gets hardcountered by dp thiefs. core guard just gets cyberbullied by Mirage mains.

@dominik.9721 said:core guard is weak.there was 0 core guards in tol finals, winrate of most core guards in Season 10.232 is around 50%, no core guard in top 10,also gets hardcountered by dp thiefs. core guard just gets cyberbullied by Mirage mains.

As a Mirage player, I would say that Holo would be my worst matchup. I have a close guildie that runs a hurtful core guard build so maybe ive dueled him enough times for it to not be so bad. Damn Drop The Bass holo builds that CC's everything within a 900 unit radius lol.

Ghost DE's are also not fun to vs but thats pretty much also applies to Ghost DE vs 95% of builds lol.

@"Skotlex.7580" said:uhm, I am pretty sure ANet has stated before they meant elite specs to be "sidegrades" to core ones, not upgrades.

The powercreep with expansions is real, but probably not intentional. So it makes sense that after a round of balances some core specs manage to perform better than others.

Considering that firebrand is either support or condition based, is it any surprise it may not do better than a power spec? (of course, dragon hunter needs a little help here as well).

-_-" Every MMO who has payed expansions makes their new classes/specs stronger than the rest. This is common knowledge. If Anet really did intend for them to be sidegrades they would have said it and then, more importantly acted on it. As it stands, has there even been a meta since HoT where more than 2 core specs were even competitive at all?

@Liza.2758 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@Liza.2758 said:fireband is way better than core guard in pretty much every way.. even radiant one but it's hard to play.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with people sticking to just core guard as well. i rather not see anyone below plat playing fireband.

I duelled one a few days ago. Had no chance without the mentioned skill and facerolled him with it. So unblockables are the build's nemesis.

@Ovark.2514 said:

@"Skotlex.7580" said:uhm, I am pretty sure ANet has stated before they meant elite specs to be "sidegrades" to core ones, not upgrades.

The powercreep with expansions is real, but probably not intentional. So it makes sense that after a round of balances some core specs manage to perform better than others.

Considering that firebrand is either support or condition based, is it any surprise it may not do better than a power spec? (of course, dragon hunter needs a little help here as well).

Core, Elite, who cares? What matters is that

1. Every profession has at least one build that can be played at the meta level. Everything past 1 is gravy. We aren't even here yet until Elementalist gets buffs.
2. There are multiple viable options for every single role in conquest; Multiple viable Support, multiple viable Team Damage, Multiple viable roamers, and multiple viable 1vX dueling builds. Right now we need more support builds desperately.

@Ovark.2514 said:

@"Skotlex.7580" said:uhm, I am pretty sure ANet has stated before they meant elite specs to be "sidegrades" to core ones, not upgrades.

The powercreep with expansions is real, but probably not intentional. So it makes sense that after a round of balances some core specs manage to perform better than others.

Considering that firebrand is either support or condition based, is it any surprise it may not do better than a power spec? (of course, dragon hunter needs a little help here as well).

Well, here's the forum thread about it:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/12805/elite-specializations-sidegrade-or-upgrade

In the end, ANet did not state elite specs are an upgrade or a sidegrade, just that they play your profession differently.

Frankly, if elite specs were always meant to be better, that hurts the game's diversity because then, for instance, every mesmer would run mirage with axe and deception utilities, greatly hurting variety, as now you only get a choice of off weapon and two trait lines.

Now, you could argue that only the trait line was meant to be superior, but that's only part of an elite spec, not the whole of it. Anyway, it really would be healthier for the game if elites were not meant to be outright upgrades.

I exclusively use burn firebrand and it’s much better than Core. Better AoE, better support, better solo play. Good build to solo queue with.

Regarding core guard! It’s one of the few where all specs are viable,that is a good thing that arenet should try and emulate with other classes

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Liza.2758 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@Liza.2758 said:fireband is way better than core guard in pretty much every way.. even radiant one but it's hard to play.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with people sticking to just core guard as well. i rather not see anyone below plat playing fireband.

This goes for fighting any Guardian, use unblockable attacks and you cut right through it like cheese... Guardian sustain was built around blocking after all.

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Liza.2758 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@Liza.2758 said:fireband is way better than core guard in pretty much every way.. even radiant one but it's hard to play.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with people sticking to just core guard as well. i rather not see anyone below plat playing fireband.

This might catch a good player off guard once. Radiance fb should take the weakness/blind mantra which makes necro power damage a waste of time.

The build only really loses to some very glassy ranged burst builds. Mantra chrono/fresh air ele. Even then losing is subjective, because they can't die if they have a good no port and column to kite around.

@Skotlex.7580 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:

@Skotlex.7580 said:uhm, I am pretty sure ANet has stated before they meant elite specs to be "sidegrades" to core ones, not upgrades.

The powercreep with expansions is real, but probably not intentional. So it makes sense that after a round of balances some core specs manage to perform better than others.

Considering that firebrand is either support or condition based, is it any surprise it may not do better than a power spec? (of course, dragon hunter needs a little help here as well).

Indeed it would be far healthier for the game if they were sidegrades only. Unfortunately we live in a capitalist society where short term gains are prioritized over long-term success. Anet aren't going to come out and say "yeah, these are meant to be strictly better than core specs" because people would be much less willing to even try the game knowing they will be at a disadvantage. Likewise they won't come out and say they AREN'T supposed to be upgrades, because they will look untrustworthy when anyone can look at the meta in any given season and see that the over-performing builds are almost always Elite specs. Anet did exactly what was most beneficial for them, keep things as vague as possible so that no one can complain.