GW2 (MMORPG's in general) & Mental Health

First, some disclaimers:

1. I am not currently, nor even recently have been, in danger of harming myself or others (this has to be said for legal reasons)
2. This post has been on my mind for a while, and if the mods feel something is wrong with it, I'm fine with it's removal, but would appreciate the opportunity to correct what is wrong. This is an important subject, and I'd rather edit it so it is acceptable than just throw it out completely (not that I have any intent for it to violate community standards)
3. While the examples given and some of the subject content is related to WvW, this post is being placed in general because it's not specifically about WvW or any given game mode.

There is no particular blame to be placed in this situation that I'm going to relate here. There's not "this one mesmer" or "that change in game mechanics", or "ragerage anet rage" (yeah, I know, that's my norm).A little history that I feel is relevant. I first signed up just before Halloween 2012, right after launch, and have played around 7000hours. Overall, for the amount of time I've played GW2, I am pretty much an average level player. I've done dungeons, one raid, and tier 2 fractals, but beyond that, my primary activity is open world PvE and map completion (currently at 16). I am also a crafting oriented player (not just in GW2).The love of crafting is what got me into trouble.

The best skins in the game, excluding gem store items, usually have a bit of crafting involved, and a lot of them involve collections. If you choose to craft legendary weapons, this is no different (even more-so now that you can craft the precursors). Many years ago, world map completion required the maps in World vs. World (three alpine and EBG). I was fortunate enough when I started to choose a server that changed colors a bit, so while there was some waiting involved, I was eventually able to get world completion done 5 times under that model. This got me accustomed to using WvW as a game mode, even though I detest PvP. Years of playing Eve Online taught me 2 basic principles with PvP: First, I will never be proficient at it to the point where I am the victor. Second, because of the first thing I simply just need to sit down and let them kill me, do their corpse dancing, and respawn when I can.WvW did have the zerg aspect, and with that I've been able to get the maps done, and grind my way through obtaining several Gift of Battles for crafting legendary weapons.

When Arenanet removed the map requirement, the only reasons I had at that point to enter WvW were the Gift of Battle, and, later, the longbow skins. I know that most average players and even the below average players can crank out the reward tracks to where it takes maybe a day to get a Gift of Battle, but, I am not that good. Changes to WvW have affected me a lot over the years, both good and bad. The only time in my experience in WvW that I ever felt like I was useful to any given group, and not just "a zergling" was during the "no downed-state" week, because as a ranger I could actually take people out from a keep wall.

Fast forwarding to late 2018. I was in an okay space in RL and in GW2. While I've never been the most exuberant person, I was just cruising along. My wife and I decided that we would craft Dusk, Twilight, Dawn, Sunrise, and Eternity. This required two Gift of Battles. Around the time we finished obtaining those, I had started to notice that I spent a LOT more time dying in WvW than progressing. After we finished unlocking Eternity, my wife chose to leave GW2 for the most part, other than doing dailies occasionally, and mostly logging in for the log-in rewards. She was burned out because she was trying to also finish her bachelors degree.

My mistake was that out of being stubborn, I chose to try and get a third Gift of Battle on my own, and to attempt to get the 700+ skirmish tickets I needed to unlock two longbow skins.

I can't recall, and perhaps this is a blessing, the chain of events that put me into that very dark place, but sometime late last year deep into the Pacific/SEA timezones, I logged off one night and realized that for a period of a week or more, I was logging out of WvW with a very very strong desire to kill myself. It may in fact be that lack of options to do such a thing played a part in my decision to make sure I got help, as well as to quit GW2 for a while, but I can't really psychoanalyze myself to that point without the conclusions potentially being incorrect.

To be clear, I am not writing this out to try and say that "WvW is so bad, I wanted to kill myself!". There are way too many factors involved with the situation for there to be just one bad guy in this scenario. Did the current state of the game mode contribute to it? Possibly. It's kind of humiliating when you're reduced to nothing but bag delivery and fully aware that it's because you simply don't have the skills to make it with the current mechanics. And yes, there's something to be said about this being the only way to obtain a Gift of Battle.

This is, again, not really about the specifics of why I reached that low point, but I do believe this is something that should be spoken of openly, because while my experience is specific to WvW, it does not mean that there isn't someone else out there who has been where I have been because of Raids, or because of Dungeons, or because of Open World, etc. Among hundreds of thousands of players, you cannot come up with a prediction on what will cause someone to fall into a pit.

The very nature of almost every game in history is to present a challenge. Whether that challenge is presented by another player, or computer code, or natural obstacles, etc., it is a challenge. With challenges come both success and failure. When you add rewards for success, there is a natural increase to the desire for succeeding in overcoming the challenge, but at the same time, for a portion of people, this also intensifies the "pain" associated with failure. Whether the pain is emotional distress, feelings of humiliation, inadequacy, or whatever, the fact that these feelings exist means there is also a probability that some people will begin to spiral downward because of them.

For people who actually care about other players in a game, it is important to recognize the signs that someone may be headed that way. Not everyone is going to say "I hate this! I hate myself! I'm going to end my life!" (in fact that's very unlikely to happen). Some suffer in silence, and quietly disappear (sadly, some never return because they follow through on their feelings). The urgent question in this is "what are the signs"? We don't have a "mood indicator" above our characters heads, etc.

The truth is, the signs really can't be categorized when it comes to the more subtle indicators. Obsessing over certain things may be one. A drastic change in online time and in a certain game mode could be one indication, or for people in guilds, a change in ones attitude can be another (though this one is a bit more obvious). Yet both of those examples are things that could easily be due to something completely different. In the end, the initial conclusion might be that there is nothing that is a good indicator, and this conclusion can then lead to an issue of "we can't do anything". This is wrong. You can do something. It's just something that has been slowly disappearing from society in general .

Love.

-Rescue that downed person.-Rez that player at the bottom of that cliff, even though "they should know better."-Tell them if you think their character looks amazing.-Tip your mesmer, commander, guide.-Kill the trash mobs before harvesting if someone else is already fighting them.-Help players find the answers to their questions instead of just saying "wiki it" in map chat.-Give someone directions on how to find something, and then offer to help them if it's an event they need to complete.-Think about whether or not running through that trash mob is going to train it into someone else that is not currently in it's aggro range.-Thank someone for helping you.

There are dozens of things that can be added to this list, and I know a few players that could certainly add to it because this is their core attitude in the game.

It is so easy today to think only of ourselves. It is so easy to not care whether or not that dead player who "should know better" isn't just a player who "should know better". People make mistakes. That dead guy may be in the middle of a real life crisis, and in a dark place mentally, laying at the bottom on the rocks, looking at his characters broken body, pondering if that might be a good idea in RL. Yes, you're more likely to drop 5 precursors in a row from trash mobs, but never assume that you know.

I know this. Because I've been there. I have survived because I have a long history with mental health that is not always shiny, but because of this history I also was aware of my situation enough to know it was time to take a break and get some help in RL.

I know this isn't well written, I rarely write well. I'm writing from my heart. I'm writing this here because out of all the games available, and in spite of some individuals, GW2 does have a community that is generally more player friendly and helpful than other communities.

That's .. all. I guess. it's an abrupt end. I'm not a speech writer. :)

tl;dr: Love.

Thanks for posting. If your effort helps a single other player recognize the signs in themselves, it will have been worth it.

Whilst I think your reaction was extreme I'm not surprised you found yourself logging out and feeling deeply unhappy. You set yourself a huge challenge (seriously Eternity is probably the most time consuming item in the entire game) and having just completed the part you found most difficult and least enjoyable (getting the Gift of Battle) you then set out to do it again, and set another hugely demanding goal requiring a lot of time in the same game mode. That's enough to bring anyone down and honestly I'm surprised you got as far as you did before it began to affect you. (I want to say I'm impressed you got that far, but under the circumstances I really don't think that word is appropriate...I'm sure there's another word which implies the same thing without suggesting it's something to aspire to, but I can't think of it right now.)

Sadly I think your experience is not uncommon. I've been talking about this a lot with people on the Elder Scrolls Online forum because they've recently ramped up their 'festivals' and special events so there's one happening every few weeks (including one scheduled to last 5 weeks) and because they've previously been very short and rare players have 'trained' themselves to grind it as much as possible, for as long as possible, to maximise the rewards. Unsurprisingly a lot of them are now feeling incredibly burned out and really not looking forward to another 10 months of that experience but also struggling to pace themselves when the possible rewards are right there encouraging them to keep going.

Although you're right that games are designed to present a challenge and MMOs in particular are designed to encourage players to keep going, keep looking for the next challenge and the next thing, and the next thing to keep us playing I highly doubt the developers want people ending up so burned out that they quit the game completely, or worse make themselves sick trying to keep going.

However it's a very difficult thing for developers to regulate because everyone is different. What one person finds incredibly stressful another may actually enjoy (for example I'm one of the weirdos who likes games where I die on my first, and maybe second, attempt to kill the boss and have to re-think my tactics to get it right) and what one person will struggle to ever finish another will blitz in a day and complain they're bored. It's absolutely worth developers considering how a variety of different people may feel but I think it's also on us as players to look out for those times when we're pushing ourselves into something we don't actually enjoy and to take steps to put a stop to that - as you have.

I've definitely made that mistake before and now I always try to catch myself before I start. For example just before writing this post I got a 'no deaths' character killed making a stupid mistake and I actually came to the forum to give myself some time before deciding how to proceed - did I start over or did I give it up at least for tonight and see how I felt about carrying on in the morning. Previously I would have forced myself to start over immediately and resented having to do all the same stuff again.

I'm impressed (and I mean it this time) that you managed to recognise what was happening and put a stop to it. At the risk of sounding like a rehab sponsor that's the first step in being able to address it, so it doesn't keep happening.

Whatever you decide to do, whether you stick with GW2 or not, I hope you're able to find something you do enjoy to focus on. :)

I would say it's a symptom of the times. Not too long ago I used to read a lot more about other people's lives online, they would pour themselves at strangers because that gave them a sense of not being alone. The world has some pretty dark places, some societies are riddled with stress (some more than others), and in a perhaps tragic twist, people are increasingly looking towards entertainment as a way to escape from it.

Like an alcoholic that drinks only to forget, we have people who delve online, maybe obsessively, as a way to forget their reality. For some of these people, "winning" in a game is their sole measure of success in an otherwise bleak existence. These are the people at highest risk of committing suicide, specially when a change in game threatens their safety net (that is, their perceived chance of winning).

However, life isn't this bad. Or at least, not everybody believes it just is that bad. Regardless of how bleak humanity and the future might be, a person who has a more cheerful outlook on life will have a healthier life, even if it is an illusion (or not). Yet, changing one's outlook on life is not easy at all, it can take some people years of therapy, and few people have the willingness (or resources) to undergo that.

As for the people mocking others and being bile to you? Who's to say the very reason they are this way is because this is their only way to feel worth something in this game?

It may just be that we have really stressed players raging at each other in a sort of zero sum game, where for one to feel good, someone else must feel miserable. The way out of this is to change one's mentality about life, not an easy task.

Or who knows, nobody really knows the story behind some random player's actions.

If you can afford to be kind, do so. Not enough people can.

Though, I wouldn't be sure how exactly you can be kind while slaughtering and bathing in the blood of your enemies. ^_^;

A game addiction, like any other addiction, stems from personal unresolved issues. Mentally healthy people quite rarely end in an obsessive state like this. Game didn't do anything wrong, without you being so much willing to delve into it and stick to it, it wouldn't keep you playing it to such extent. That much obsession with accumulating some digital goodies in a project which won't (realistically) even last for a while, doesn't seem to me like very healthy behavior, in the first place. The rest seem more like the development of a "disease" (let's call it that) which was present before you even started playing. At that point I'm doing psychoanalysis over TCP/IP, so let's stop at this.

@"Skotlex.7580" said:The world has become a pretty dark place, some societies are riddled with stress (some more than others), and in a perhaps tragic twist, people are increasingly looking towards entertainment as a way to escape from it.

That makes me laugh every time I hear it. During the last 100 years world has become so immensely better, that it does look like a pure miracle. A typical average citizen of the developed part of the world has quality of life kings of the past couldn't even imagine, when it comes to the most parts of their everyday life. Never ever they have been living in such secure and comfort environment. If anything really has changed is that people become less and less psychologically stable and resilient, capable of facing reality without breaking into tears - what again is direct consequences of (comparatively) extremely high life standards and super-secure environment.

Yes, even with all those terror attacks, everyday murders and jet crashes, school shootings etc it can't be compared even remotely to what a regular people would face on everyday basis a few hundreds years ago, or even to what the previous generation, including those who had to fight in the WWII, had to live through.

If anything really changed lately, it's access to information. World became much better and secure place, but at the same time every internet user now can get access to all its filth and horrors with a few mouse clicks - something that never was possible until last few decades. That contributes greatly to that false feeling the world "is getting worse rapidly". Nah, you just have learned how the world has been for thousands of years (and will stay like this for a while), nothing really changed that much since Roman Empire, only the scale got bigger.

There seems to be especially in this game the concept that challenge = entertainment.ie if something isnt challenging , its not entertaining.I play the game purely for the fun , not to be challenged.This means that its not necessary to log in everyday, or spend 1000s of hours trying to achieve some kind of in game outcome.Life is far too short to spend it playing MMOs all the time.

@MoriMoriMori.5349 said:

@Skotlex.7580 said:The world has become a pretty dark place, some societies are riddled with stress (some more than others), and in a perhaps tragic twist, people are increasingly looking towards entertainment as a way to escape from it.

That's the spirit! However, mental issues aren't related that directly to medical advances itself or life expectation, otherwise they would have diminished ever since after the second world war. Instead, the number of people who need help doesn't dwindle, it's just their problems seem to change.

Having life threatening issues (such as disease and murder) doesn't seem to correlate as highly to mental health, whereas a sense of belonging and purpose in life do (hence why the levels of depression in modern cities by folks who feel like they don't fit in).

In other words, mental health doesn't has to do with quality of life as much as the perceived value of one's life.

im a really freaking depressed person but ive never had a game make me want to kill myself..other things??yeah..but gw2??

@"Danikat.8537" said:Whilst I think your reaction was extreme I'm not surprised you found yourself logging out and feeling deeply unhappy. You set yourself a huge challenge (seriously Eternity is probably the most time consuming item in the entire game) and having just completed the part you found most difficult and least enjoyable (getting the Gift of Battle) you then set out to do it again, and set another hugely demanding goal requiring a lot of time in the same game mode. That's enough to bring anyone down and honestly I'm surprised you got as far as you did before it began to affect you. (I want to say I'm impressed you got that far, but under the circumstances I really don't think that word is appropriate...I'm sure there's another word which implies the same thing without suggesting it's something to aspire to, but I can't think of it right now.)

I understand your meaning here, but I disagree that this was an issue of too much challenge, but too much ..hmm... tenacity in completing a given challenge (specifically obtaining a third Gift of Battle for use in a weapon that I had not, at the time, chosen to make yet). The drive to excel collided with my personal skill limitations. As crafting goes there isn't really, to me, any challenge that I see as "too much" beyond whether or not I have the patience and time to complete it. I have played Eve Online on and off for a decade because of the insane depth and variety of the industry system, including solo building freighters. The specific component here for me was the PvP aspect of WvW (again, this is relative to me specifically and is not a condemnation of WvW as a mode in general. I do have opinions on that, but that's not relative here). WvW is just my Achilles heel.

Sadly I think your experience is not uncommon. I've been talking about this a lot with people on the Elder Scrolls Online forum because they've recently ramped up their 'festivals' and special events so there's one happening every few weeks (including one scheduled to last 5 weeks) and because they've previously been very short and rare players have 'trained' themselves to grind it as much as possible, for as long as possible, to maximise the rewards. Unsurprisingly a lot of them are now feeling incredibly burned out and really not looking forward to another 10 months of that experience but also struggling to pace themselves when the possible rewards are right there encouraging them to keep going.

Burning out is another issue in which I would tentatively say that simply being kind to people would go a long way to help, but yes, it can be a trigger for the depression and suicidal thoughts that some people fall into. Though I would point out, for those reading, not just you, that burnout can be it's own animal too, and doesn't necessarily mean an individual is having a mental health crisis. Some people just need a break :)

Although you're right that games are designed to present a challenge and MMOs in particular are designed to encourage players to keep going, keep looking for the next challenge and the next thing, and the next thing to keep us playing I highly doubt the developers want people ending up so burned out that they quit the game completely, or worse make themselves sick trying to keep going.

That's a given for sure. Burned out players, as far as anything I've ever read to this day, do not increase revenue. So even from my normal jaded "business only" standpoint, yeah, I completely agree there.

However it's a very difficult thing for developers to regulate because everyone is different. What one person finds incredibly stressful another may actually enjoy (for example I'm one of the weirdos who likes games where I die on my first, and maybe second, attempt to kill the boss and have to re-think my tactics to get it right) and what one person will struggle to ever finish another will blitz in a day and complain they're bored. It's absolutely worth developers considering how a variety of different people may feel but I think it's also on us as players to look out for those times when we're pushing ourselves into something we don't actually enjoy and to take steps to put a stop to that - as you have.This is also true, though it is a bit too focused on the seeking the source of the problem. My point in bringing up WvW was to draw from my own experience to point more specifically at the solution where players can be empowered to do something about it themselves, without demanding that games change. :)

I'm impressed (and I mean it this time) that you managed to recognise what was happening and put a stop to it. At the risk of sounding like a rehab sponsor that's the first step in being able to address it, so it doesn't keep happening.I am, have been, and always be both an introvert, and an outcast. :) Learning to spot such things early on was a point of self preservation. :) Thank you though. :)

Whatever you decide to do, whether you stick with GW2 or not, I hope you're able to find something you do enjoy to focus on. :)Oh I'm staying around when I have time. I haven't finished Pharus yet, and I have at least one character that does not have world map completion. I took a break for a couple months to step back and talk to the important people in my real life (spouse, doctor, etc.). As I stated in another recent thread somewhere, I usually am here when I'm bored. Joined my old guild so that I can use the guild hall instead of going into WvW at all when "WvW big spender" is the daily, etc.

@Skotlex.7580 said:Though, I wouldn't be sure how exactly you can be kind while slaughtering and bathing in the blood of your enemies. ^_^;That is something that has been lost for the most part in society, I believe. Consider playing a game of volleyball on the beach with friends, or a game of football on a field with a group of other people from your neighborhood. With rare exception, the challenge of the game is taken on with great fervor, but perhaps beyond some friendly jeers, the opposing teams are out there to have fun, and those who win are not lording it over those who lost, nor are those who lost trying to start fights or verbally abusing people. In video games, I have seen the same. I've participated in multiplayer games where it was a melee free-for-all, or strategic, etc. It is completely possible to play something like WvW and yet maintain good sportsmanship. The reasons it doesn't happen that way not is because society in general threw out good sportsmanship and replaced it. The glory of playing the game was replaced with the glory of winning, and, in my opinion, things went down hill from there.

Warning: Somewhat negative post ahead.

To be honest, this game used to be alot better about mental and physical health. it feels like over the years, the developers stopped caring that anything other than able-bodied, neurotypical people exist.. for example, the game has become really hard to play for those of us with vision problems due to all the flashing effects, despite probably hundreds of threads being posted on the subject, nothing was ever done about it.,

People thinking "its because the players aren't better to each other" runs the risk of making them feel even worse. Be as good to other people as you can, but don't see kindness as the magic carrot to chase that will fix the critical flaws in the game, like having virtually no accessibility, or encouraging excessive grinds for shinies. The only way that will ever change is if they hire consultants who understand player health concerns.

I'm not here to complain, and I do agree with you, that everyone needs to be alot nicer to each other. However, its also important to recognise that some games are more toxic than others, and alot of the time that has everything to do with poor development decisions.

Community wellness is not a band-aid for the lack of professional oversight.

@"Neural.1824" said:-Rescue that downed person.-Rez that player at the bottom of that cliff, even though "they should know better."-Tell them if you think their character looks amazing.-Tip your mesmer, commander, guide.-Kill the trash mobs before harvesting if someone else is already fighting them.-Help players find the answers to their questions instead of just saying "wiki it" in map chat.-Give someone directions on how to find something, and then offer to help them if it's an event they need to complete.-Thank someone for helping you.

There are dozens of things that can be added to this list, and I know a few players that could certainly add to it because this is their core attitude in the game.

These points are of course based on the individual player. This community has some nice people and ... some not-so-nice-people.But i can tell, after ~ 6 years of playing, that the comunity hasnt changed the behavior much - and in a good way!I still see people doing these things to othersI still behave like this tooI still experience those things because of othersthis love has never been gone, and never will. i also dont feel that love is decreasing or increasing. everyone has it, some more some less. its just .... people.(sry for bad english)

I suspect a much more widespread issue with MMOs is the feeling of uselessness - eventually almost everyone asks themselves "Why am I wasting my life on goals that don't translate to real life benefits?"
I think GW2 is better than most when it comes to affording every player challenges that are possible to overcome.As for getting depressed about not doing well at something, this could happen in any pursuit. Say you try to learn guitar and find you aren't good at it. It would have the same impact. The difference is that for some reason the bar for how good a player is expected to be in GW2 is set by the very best players in the world. Everyone's expected to adopt their builds/tactics, and to perform as well as they do - or they're berated. I can't think of any other sort of contest (sports, board games, etc.) where everyone HAS to be as good as the best or else they're considered shit.So while I think there are elements of the game that can contribute to feelings of depression, I don't think they're worse than in any other arena, and the causes are mostly not due to the game itself but rather to outside, uncontrollable elements such as other players' rudeness.I laud your call for more courtesy in the game. It's something everyone should aspire to.

I have been through a similar experience with a truly rude, immature, sexist and racist community: that of CS:GO. As a woman, I would feel worse and worse the more I would play the game over the years. Not because I did not have the skill required (on the contrary, I was in the upper ranks) but because 90% of the time some extremely angry, misogynist, pubescent male teenagers (or even young men) would bully me because of my gender, especially when I would ignore questions like "Are you a grill?", "How old are you?", "Do you have a boyfriend?", or would respond along the lines of "This is not a dating platform, so let's focus on the match, guys." There would be verbal abuse as well as abusing the in-game mechanics to get me killed etc. It got to a point where I would get extreme depression because of this, and as much as I love the game per se, I quit it. I just couldn't take it anymore.

The probably worst part about it was that most of my male CS:GO gaming buddies wouldn't get how hurt I felt in a situation like that, that I was taking it personal (how can you not take something like that personal?). Their advice would be to just "ignore them" (or mute them on voice chat), but, as mentioned before, ignoring them would lead to in-game abuse instead, trolling me for the whole 35-90 minutes of the match, or deliberately throwing the match. My gaming buddies just didn't get how it would affect me mentally.

So far, I have only had positive experiences in GW2 90+ % of the time, but I do recognize an increase in what I nowadays call the "CS:GO mentality" in GW2. I hope it never gets that bad, though. And I agree with you, @Neural.1824, that empathy and social behavior have suffered severely in the online world during the past decade. I appreciate you reminding people of that kind of stuff. :)

I would say it's any game; PC, console or even phones, not MMOs-specific issue. The aspect of PvP/Grinding offers challenging aspects and for we humans hate losing as much as winning while also winning a lot gets boring.

I started playing GW2 July last year after investing all my play-time in League of Legends since end of season 1 till mid season 8 then I quit because I just couldn't get that feeling of 7-8 years of playing and I am still stuck in a specific elo, my skill level and role I played wasn't meant to carry enough at a point. There have been days when I might rage at even the mistakes I make farming waves (NPCs and terrible timing or managing). Having all these factors combined put me in a state of, why am I still doing it and do I really enjoy that anymore, and the more I try to cast a blind eye to these questions, the more the thoughts consume me. The game across the 8 years had ups and downs, the joy of finally leaving a division to the rage of stopping to play for a while, till it was last season where my skill and my class in terms of balance were literally not enough. I couldn't bring myself to enjoy the game anymore, no matter the modes that might get released or changes to my role. I always played ranked games with many fears before I quit... in my head; players, match-ups, picks and bans, etc. Now add on that the lovely surely-not-toxic-community that gets you penalized or shift blame on whoever they want for literally anything with cherry-picked choice of words which is nothing I have ever experienced in GW2 to reach half that extent. Games weren't meant for cursing and that stupid stuff going around. At first I was enjoying ranked games, then I had that fear, then I couldn't care less and gave out that laugh of 'this is funny' mixed with 'please get me out of this game', which expressed my mental health issues. Is this why we play a game? If yes, then having these issues differ nothing than real life issues because you're now forced to do this stuff, you no longer enjoy it. It's only there to pass the time. You need a change. As of now, you're most likely experiencing an obnoxious forced IRL thing but through a machine and an imaginary world. This is caused by having everything or losing too much accompanied by unwanted emotions, or no progress... What would make us humans feel any joy if there is no more progress accompanied with what we do, there is nothing that rewards that anymore, continuing would cause this thought to exist even more and more, thus, there needs to be stopping to re-think the overall situation and the main reason behind playing a 'videogame'.

GW2 was my pick for something to progress through since LoL was done to me in terms of having what I need, or the progress no longer exists filled with the fears before every game. To be honest, I won't be on the hunt for any other never-ending grind game after GW2. I would be more of a story-based console games player (once the story is over, it's all done, just the emotions that come after), there's no attachment. Investing the time to learn everything as I did in LoL would probably not happen in any other game.

My advice would be; stop if you need a break. This is not a real life urgent situation. Make use of the free time more efficiently. Once a game is accompanied by anxiety, depression or any other mental health issue, this is no longer a game. It hurts you more than you think.

I really do hope that you are in a better place. I also hope that your words can help others.

@"Ashantara.8731" said:I have been through a similar experience with a truly rude, immature, sexist and racist community: that of CS:GO. As a woman, I would feel worse and worse the more I would play the game over the years. Not because I did not have the skill required (on the contrary, I was in the upper ranks) but because 90% of the time some extremely angry, misogynist, pubescent male teenagers (or even young men) would bully me because of my gender, especially when I would ignore questions like "Are you a grill?", "How old are you?", "Do you have a boyfriend?", or would respond along the lines of "This is not a dating platform, so let's focus on the match, guys." There would be verbal abuse as well as abusing the in-game mechanics to get me killed etc. It got to a point where I would get extreme depression because of this, and as much as I love the game per se, I quit it. I just couldn't take it anymore.

The probably worst part about it was that most of my male CS:GO gaming buddies wouldn't get how hurt I felt in a situation like that, that I was taking it personal (how can you not take something like that personal?). Their advice would be to just "ignore them" (or mute them on voice chat), but, as mentioned before, ignoring them would lead to in-game abuse instead, trolling me for the whole 35-90 minutes of the match, or deliberately throwing the match. My gaming buddies just didn't get how it would affect me mentally.

Looking back over the past 13 years or so, there have been many times in which I've come across people asking "If you're male in real life, why do you play female characters in games?". A long time ago, my answer was "because if I'm going to look at the back of my character all day, I prefer to look at the female form." While this may be perceived as a form of misogyny, and perhaps at the time there was something there, over the years I can confidently say that because I experienced something similar to what you went through (definitely not as intense and only within the realm of the virtual worlds/games), I think I was at one point changed, and became driven to continue using female characters not because of any questionable objectification or desire, but because it forced me to remain sensitive to how women are often treated in games.I sometimes feel like I've heard it all, especially having been involved with virtual worlds like Second Life. From guys spending weeks trying to woo me (thinking I was a woman) into doing the pixel-boom-boom with them, to guys who walk right up and say "Hi, want to..." (not even going to use the filter word).I am not a huge fan of some things the womens rights movement today is doing, but I know very very well exactly why the movement is so strong. There needs to be a balance struck, and I am confident it eventually will, but wow.. men brought this on themselves. If a woman has that sort of experience commonly in games, etc., it is a given that some of them are going to get depressed and get into a dark space. A lot won't admit it, but it is not something that only one gender is susceptible to either. You put enough men through the same sort of situation of being treated in a degrading manner, and a portion of them are going to get hurt by it. It's a human thing.

So far, I have only had positive experiences in GW2 90+ % of the time, but I do recognize an increase in what I nowadays call the "CS:GO mentality" in GW2. I hope it never gets that bad, though. And I agree with you, @"Neural.1824", that empathy and social behavior have suffered severely in the online world during the past decade. I appreciate you reminding people of that kind of stuff. :)

My experience in game in GW2 has been absolutely stellar in this regard. I've seen "toxic masculinity" in map chats, etc., but in my personal interactions with individuals that don't know I'm not female in RL, I have not dealt with any of the poor behavior I've come across in other places. In fact, the majority of the issues I have run into has been more from people who do not like the fact that people can choose the opposite of their RL gender for a character here.

So, not gonna lie, I will agree that with the usual competitive hype (either through PvP, WvW, PvE and yes, even RP) that MMOs present does not help ANYONE with any previous mental health issues.

Take for example with me. PvP. As much as people in PvP joke or tease or belittle each other, it is scary how much they want to 'win'. A competitive spirit is /fine/, there is nothing /wrong/ with that, but being face with people that are at the top that belittle the average man, along with the fact PvP has a VERY large learning curve, I felt that sense of inadequency. Two, going on three years I've been trying my very hardest as a PvPer. Very hard. I rejoice when I win and I get so furious when I lost because there are factors that contributed to the loss that is out of my hands. Balance, egos, whatever. I, myself, have been improving slowly but surely but the reward of 'improving (aka moving up tiers) by myself did not improve.

Sadly, it had gotten to a point I was on the verge of tears because no matter what I did I could never seem to make it up to play on my own. Every build. Every class. Hours and hours. I felt like garbage. It's not because of have a crap life. I have a husband, get out of the house a decent amount, take care of two kitties, read, and just enjoy myself. It's just the fact the idea of 'winning' has always been important to me. Seeing progress after a certain amount of time, (A year or a couple), I would expect to be at this high tier. But I'm not. I improve with friends. I improve by queuing with other people. I feel in control and feel like I can limit the numbers.

Point is, sometimes, it is the fact people saying that 'losing' is nothing but bad things and winning is everything can create a toxic mindset. I've only have minor depression and had a long history of panic attacks, but mostly out of overwhelming stress in real life for the same reason. The concept of succeeding and winning can really take a toll on someone. And I see my issues as minor. I can only imagine how people with SERIOUS mental issues feel.

So yeah, even if people seem tough or a jokester, always check up on them. Competitive even if it is in actuality or just simply a concept, can take its toll on anyone at anyone point in time. Everyone has different tolerance levels and the ones that have low tolerance should be looked out for.

I feel somewhat uncomfortable because of your post OP. This feels very, very private. Maybe I need to apoligize because I feel uncomfortable, not sure.

I agree more love, more kindness in my words, is always good.

As other said as well, if a game brings you so low you’re thinking about stepping out of life, you really need to take a break. Not only from the game, but from the computer and being inside, probably.You should also seek professional help if you feel this bad. It’s good to open up about this, but I wonder if a public game forum is the right place.

I wish you all the best.

Mouelp, I understand what are mental issues burnout etc... but I don't see how a game can give you that, especially gw2. They are no win or lose, you are just knocked down by foes sometimes.

I would simply say, play a game when you want to play it, do the things you like doing: don't force yourself! I took my time crafting the Predator, some days I was exploring, not farming.

I'm very pessimist in general, and even if I have a kitten real life, I don't want to kill myself. Even in gw2, it's a GAME, anything could happens, I still distinguish life/game.I died for sure more than 200 times with my toon since the launch, welp that's nothing, let's continue. Legendaries are quite a challenge and should be crafted one by one. A goal, but not obscessing you everyday. Will arrive when it arrives.

The day I become more dependant and worrying about pixels I will stop playing.Game is for fun and happiness, just let sadness where it should stay, in real world. Evade, enjoy your journey!

But gonna concede, PvE is better than WvW or PvP concerning the aspect"evade, no worries..", I do like WvW a little, not abusing it, and avoiding PvP at all costs.(Hate toxicity and when everyone are just insulting each others, not a pleasure, already experienced that in other pvp games like league of legend)

@"Lilyanna.9361" said:So yeah, even if people seem tough or a jokester, always check up on them. Competitive even if it is in actuality or just simply a concept, can take its toll on anyone at anyone point in time. Everyone has different tolerance levels and the ones that have low tolerance should be looked out for.

This touches lightly on something for me in regards to World vs. World.When playing multiple game modes, a person is going to interact with people they may not see in other game modes. I know that the commanders I've followed in WvW in the past are not people I will see in Tangled Depths or farming logs at Paga's in Malchor's Leap. The majority utilize different game modes, but I think most also have a favorite that they spend a larger portion of their time in. As a result, for me at least, I don't develop the social bonds that I do within a guild. When you join a guild, you're with those people via chat whenever you are logged in. They might be at Jormag, and you might be waiting for your Vale Guardian team to fill up, and everyone can still be chattering away in guild chat. Guilds have the guild missions they can run together. They have the guild hall, and so on. In the long run, for people like me, these are the people you can lean on when you are having a heck of a time getting that achievement, or need to do a group event, etc. Yes, there is LFG, and so on, but guilds are a core of friends and people you can rely on (in most cases).Because of this aspect of the game, this is why I have been so heavily in support of the Alliances ideas that Arenanet has put forth in regards to WvW. Megaserver changed a lot with guilds in this game. I know people from all different tiers and servers. At group events, or missions, etc., there is next to no expectation of success. If we wipe, there is a group-like attitude that keeps the mood light, and fosters a mentality of humor and a tenacity to try again. For a lot of people, myself included, running solo, or even "alone in a crowd" with a zerg, is a very different experience. It's hard to nail down exactly, but when you're getting steamrolled by the other zerg, it's just not as painful when all your closest friends die with you.

I hope the new mount will require WvW gold rank of 1400 or greater to be eligible to buy the War Mount.

And cost at least 10,000 WvW shards to buy. That way everyone can become an Obsessive Compulsive Gamer and experience what it really means to have OCD.

In all seriousness, depression is real and can really hurt . Please don't be ashamed to receive professional help and talk to friends and family members about how you feel.

Life is short and every day is worth making the journey.

@"Skotlex.7580" said:The world has become a pretty dark place, some societies are riddled with stress (some more than others), and in a perhaps tragic twist, people are increasingly looking towards entertainment as a way to escape from it.

I'm sorry, but I just can't agree to this if you are living in a first world country. People are looking towards entertainment because THEY CAN.

Do you really want to go down the rabbit hole and compare our times now with ANY period of time before in human history? What is the time frame? How many years have to be "better" in succession? 10 years? 20 years?

As this century nears it's first quarter, we have seen the longest period of wealth and peace in the developed countries ever. We are actually facing problems of wealth accumulation never present in the past. There was no period in time where this tranquility was not interrupted by war, disease or strive or something else. People can look towards entertainment because their life standards have developed past hunger, exploitation, war and conflict. To assume anything else is to be absolutely uninformed about history.

Yes, there are new issues arising which need conquering. Some stem from over crowding and population centers (again only possible due to the vast over supply of food and resources.). Others from literally our technology overtaking our human ability to adapt. I would not trade any of our current problems with those of any time in the past. If escape from reality is the biggest problem one has, I dare that person go visit a country where actual starvation is taking place. It really puts things in perspective.

@TCI am happy you overcame your demons. I do think you are throwing a very wide net. Instead of assuming why you reached your low point, you should seek professional help. There is no shame in going to a psychiatrist even for consultation. I'm saying this because some of the things you describe and the fact that you were/are affected by a video game this deeply can very well be rooted in way more complex issues.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"Skotlex.7580" said:The world has become a pretty dark place, some societies are riddled with stress (some more than others), and in a perhaps tragic twist, people are increasingly looking towards entertainment as a way to escape from it.

Honest question: how interested are you in human psychology? In a previous comment I explained that mental health does not correlates as much with standards of living as it does with having a sense of purpose in life.

If you have an issue with the content of the first comment, then at least consider the follow up before objecting.

@Skotlex.7580 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Skotlex.7580 said:The world has become a pretty dark place, some societies are riddled with stress (some more than others), and in a perhaps tragic twist, people are increasingly looking towards entertainment as a way to escape from it.

I would put the stress of starvation, loss, hunger, poverty, disease, subjugation to a lord, etc. over any type of stress caused through increase of living standards.