What if Revenants had access to 4 legends at once?

Just curious what you think of this. And although I know this is not how Revenant was designed I just want to theorize and hear others' opinions. Would you feel more Revenentsy?There are 4 core legends: Jalis, Ventari, Mallyx, Shiro. With E-Spec it would be Glint/Kalla + 3 core specs.

So, as the title says: What if Revenants had access to 4 legends at once?

My theories, etc. :PROS

• Further focus on energy management - even greater as you can use more skills which means some might prove more useful when comboed
• The problem of having access to too many things wouldn't be a problem because of energy - so, no spamming utilities
• Some Specs that are underperforming in competitive modes could really benefit from being more versatile while still keeping their identity
• A lot more versatility when it comes to PvE; Open World, Fractals, Raids, and so on.
• The theme of Revenant being able to channel and mix powers of most legends would be great; thematically very cool

CONS

• Although Energy system would prevent from using Ventari's heal, Shiro's evade, Mallyx condi transfer and Jalis taunt at once some might say this is a power-creep (but hey, Ele has acces to 4 different things at once too and all of the elements are focused on different roles)
• Imagine using Kalla's F-abilities and (3 of them) and having 4 legends to choose from, so it's 7 buttons just for the legends
• Energy system would suffer because it's not meant to do so much at once
• Crazy idea

What are your opinions?

it would be useless. you will always aniway have a 9 second cooldown to swap between legends right?And you can't compare ele to revenant, ele is build to not have cooldown problems and not have to thinking but just spamming, i don't want rev to be that way.

i was always for a 3 legend swap

so kinda like an ele attunement type situation?hmmm... sounds interesting. 4 sounds a bit ridiculous, maybe 3 like the guy above me said. with 3 only two buttons would be needed (next and previous legend).

Honestly i dont want another elementalist, i dont know if im saying this because im not perfect at elementalist rotation or just because i dont want to play a spec that my carpal tunnel can't handle.

3 would be interesting but that would really buff sustain and could lead to some pretty cancer bunker specs, or even extreme dps builds with a natural kitten ton of sustain.

I want something that combines our legends, similar to Weaver.

@Kain Francois.4328 said:I want something that combines our legends, similar to Weaver.

That would be a dream come true.

The glint/shiro rev starts running malyx to deal with the weakness to condi. Then people start screaming for nerfs cause that is not balanced at all.

Playing Glint/Shiro don't feel the need of any other legend, at least in PvP and roaming: Jalis makes you slow at the exchange of giving you no perceptible tankiness, and Mallyx gives you condi damage but overall reduces your dps, so is a bad trade; Venturi and Kalla I don't even known what they are made for...

Since legends tie in to the rev’s utility skills, more than 2 heal skills might be too much.Unless they made it so the legend skills share cooldowns, I don’t see it happening.

@Shala.8352 said:it would be useless. you will always aniway have a 9 second cooldown to swap between legends right?And you can't compare ele to revenant, ele is build to not have cooldown problems and not have to thinking but just spamming, i don't want rev to be that way.

Ele was built to have 50% more cooldowns on skills compared to other classes because it has more skills in total, get your facts straight. Rev spams skills until it gets out of energy so it can legend swap..it's already that way lol

@Buran.3796 said:Venturi and Kalla I don't even known what they are made for...

Pve and/or wvw.

As interesting as it could be to have access to one or two more legends, the entire class has been designed and balanced around only having two at a time, so such a change would require a massive overhaul to the class. I imagine either skills would be heavily nerfed or the energy system would be significantly changed.

Personally, I would rather see:-One additional utility skill introduced per legend. This could be a movement skill for Ventari, a vigor facet with a group heal consume effect for Glint, etc. Having the default three skills is part of what restricts build diversity and cross-legend synergy. Having more options could help bridge the gaps that currently exist for certain builds.-Skills/effects that enhance single legends or mix two legends. Since Revenant has similarities to Elementalist, overload and attunement-mixing mechanics show interesting potential for making our class design more engaging and complex. So far our e-specs have simply added an additional legend and random F-skills. Personally I find this quite boring, and if you don't take the new legend, you are missing out on a significant portion of the e-spec. I would like to see our next e-spec actually encourage using two core legends and take inspiration from how Ele's e-specs are done.

@steki.1478 said:

@Shala.8352 said:it would be useless. you will always aniway have a 9 second cooldown to swap between legends right?And you can't compare ele to revenant, ele is build to not have cooldown problems and not have to thinking but just spamming, i don't want rev to be that way.

@Buran.3796 said:Venturi and Kalla I don't even known what they are made for...

well i have never seen an ele run out of cds, but i've seen plenty of rev running out of energy :D

@Shala.8352 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Shala.8352 said:it would be useless. you will always aniway have a 9 second cooldown to swap between legends right?And you can't compare ele to revenant, ele is build to not have cooldown problems and not have to thinking but just spamming, i don't want rev to be that way.

@Buran.3796 said:Venturi and Kalla I don't even known what they are made for...

Maybe because ele has tons of skills and no restrictions to cast them (like energy, initiative and similar) while rev can easily go out of energy with only a couple of skills.

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:As interesting as it could be to have access to one or two more legends, the entire class has been designed and balanced around only having two at a time, so such a change would require a massive overhaul to the class. I imagine either skills would be heavily nerfed or the energy system would be significantly changed.

Personally, I would rather see:-One additional utility skill introduced per legend. This could be a movement skill for Ventari, a vigor facet with a group heal consume effect for Glint, etc. Having the default three skills is part of what restricts build diversity and cross-legend synergy. Having more options could help bridge the gaps that currently exist for certain builds.-Skills/effects that enhance single legends or mix two legends. Since Revenant has similarities to Elementalist, overload and attunement-mixing mechanics show interesting potential for making our class design more engaging and complex. So far our e-specs have been simply added an additional legend and random F-skills. Personally I find this quite boring, and if you don't take the new legend, you are missing out on a significant portion of the e-spec. I would like to see our next e-spec actually encourage using two core legends and taking inspiration from how Ele's e-specs are done.

Well, I get what you're saying but then the E-Spec that would mix Rev a bit - just like Weaver or Tempest, could be a good opportunity to add the E-Spec legend on the bar, so you can now choose from 3, but the third one is a bit of a "ghost legend", so it doesn't really have that much impact like other.

So now, you'll have for example Ventari, Mallyx and E-Spec legend that enables you to enhance and mix these spells while the core ones stay clean. Just an idea. Because the existing E-Spec are, as u said, boring. Boring to the point that I don't feel any change between swapping my legends. The biggest change I feel is when I swap to Ventari or Jalis, their playstyle is a whole lot different. But I don't see them adding any new E-Specs soon as E-Specs come with a lot of powercreep, so most likely ANet will focus on what's present and hopefully bring Revenant to the point that every legend has its own feeling, not dmg dmg dmg more dmg and party dmg.

What I think is that Revenant could really use a legend that would work perfectly like Invocation. The legend that isn't present but gives you that taste of energy and its management. Additional utilities are also very welcome.

@steki.1478 said:

@Shala.8352 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Shala.8352 said:it would be useless. you will always aniway have a 9 second cooldown to swap between legends right?And you can't compare ele to revenant, ele is build to not have cooldown problems and not have to thinking but just spamming, i don't want rev to be that way.

@Buran.3796 said:Venturi and Kalla I don't even known what they are made for...

yes thats exactly the defintion of spamming skills instead of managing and thinking before cast a skill.

@Shala.8352 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Shala.8352 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Shala.8352 said:it would be useless. you will always aniway have a 9 second cooldown to swap between legends right?And you can't compare ele to revenant, ele is build to not have cooldown problems and not have to thinking but just spamming, i don't want rev to be that way.

@Buran.3796 said:Venturi and Kalla I don't even known what they are made for...

If you ever played pve and wvw (zerging) on these two classes you'd know what I'm talking about.

@DonArkanio.6419 , if actually this happened i would request the removal of the weapon swap, put back Rev weapon just like it was suposed to be.

4 legends would be to much.. way to much.3 could happen with a buff on some skills, but remove the weapon swap ability.

@Aeolus.3615 said:@DonArkanio.6419 , if actually this happened i would request the removal of the weapon swap, put back Rev weapon just like it was suposed to be.

4 legends would be to much.. way to much.3 could happen with a buff on some skills, but remove the weapon swap ability.

Well, Revenant used to be like this just a while - 1 or 2 Beta Weekends. I don't think taking away weapon swap would be a good idea sińce Revenant uses energy which limits it in mamy ways - whereas Ele's skills change based on attunement and cost nothing.I could see this happening if weapons didn't have energy cost because that would be a tradeoff for having this many utilities to choose from.

Legend swapping would remain at the same 9s cooldown but having access to 3 legends could improve the versatility of Revenant's gameplay without making it OP. What it would change is - expand the trait choice, force opponents to pay more attention to current legend.

If I could bring what was on Beta Rev I'd definitely choose Mallyx. It was so unique!

I guess it would be really bad. We have 4 attunements on ele accessible at any time, but do you see any ele using anything else than Fire/Air when they build for damage? No because Earth and Water are more of a disadvantage to attune to than some heals or toughness... No ele would use Fire/Air for support either. You may think it's more skills, but ele is held back by tons of high cooldowns and a lot of casting times with many delays while also having low values on things they didn't build for, all of this and they still have almost the same results as other professions. All these features are on ele and yet we make use of 2 elements only when everything was set up so we would use them all. But on Rev, it's a bit different because you have a weapon swap, something ele lacks, and you have utility swap, this would cause rev to lose the weapon swap then it would face the problem listed below.

You will be held back by energy, as an ele, we're held back by cooldowns, and low numbers that require fully gearing and traiting to make use of 1/2 attunements only (legends in rev's case) at the same time, so there is energy which is an equivalent to cooldowns (can be better if you can attack quite a lot, can be worse if not), and then lower numbers on abilities that would probably nullify the idea of having supportive legends most of the time when built for damage. An example, when playing ele and you use the useful abilities on Fire/Air, then you either auto attack for a little while, or you attune to water or earth to cast skill 2 on staff before getting back on Fire and repeating the same thing over again, so water and earth usage is really limited and still they are used mainly for their damaging abilties in a damage build.

@Shala.8352 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Shala.8352 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Shala.8352 said:it would be useless. you will always aniway have a 9 second cooldown to swap between legends right?And you can't compare ele to revenant, ele is build to not have cooldown problems and not have to thinking but just spamming, i don't want rev to be that way.

@Buran.3796 said:Venturi and Kalla I don't even known what they are made for...

I believe any Power Revenant here beside PvP as I have no idea about PvP, can tell that Herald is nothing but spamming abilities in Shiro before swapping for energy regain, and in WvW; Herald only needs to press 2, nothing else, and it's an instant cast which is completely opposite to 3 3/4s cast of MS that is still not instant damage and is also followed by other skills.

That would be a bit TOO OP in my opinion. I wouldn't mind it if Reve could have 3 legends to switch between, but they would have to balance everything in JUST the right way in order for it to also not be OP :3

I think 4 is a bit too much but 3 could work.I think the best solution would be to create invocation utility skills that we can as substitute for our Legend utilities.
And move the upkeep toggles to our elite slot!!!!

@Auburner.6945 said:

@Shala.8352 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Shala.8352 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Shala.8352 said:it would be useless. you will always aniway have a 9 second cooldown to swap between legends right?And you can't compare ele to revenant, ele is build to not have cooldown problems and not have to thinking but just spamming, i don't want rev to be that way.

@Buran.3796 said:Venturi and Kalla I don't even known what they are made for...

Like any other class is ment to be played, spam the hard hitting skill faster than target :}

@LaGranse.8652 said:The glint/shiro rev starts running malyx to deal with the weakness to condi. Then people start screaming for nerfs cause that is not balanced at all.

Remove the weapon swap ability :}