Upcoming Balance Notes - Page 6 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming Balance Notes

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Comments

  • 1+1 on how to get people from enjoying chrono even less

  • Hyper Cutter.9376Hyper Cutter.9376 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Klypto.1703 said:
    I should have known we would get a retaliation patch because of the ncsoft layoffs and its here. I mean deadeye and renegade changes you might as well have just remove them from the game. Based off other posts too its pretty much anything pof if it was reworked or not is going into the garbage. Something must be coming in some form to actually be fun gameplay wise or something because it feels like buying any expansions is just a waste of money now.

    It's not "retaliation", this is the balance patch they already had planned for this week before it got delayed.

  • @Randulf.7614 said:

    @alcopaul.2156 said:
    Could you please clarify/expound on the "Breaking the channel will destroy the spell." part for the spellbreakers. Thanks.

    Sounds like it is interruptable if the caster is hit

    Sounds more like an other channeled skill, such as 100b, where the channeled skill is broken by CC or interupts.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2019

    Been running Ranger spirits for years.

    Guess i'm finally going to have to change my main build.. Really not liking the sound of these spirit changes.
    The boon spam is one of the things I relied on for survivability and support... taking that away and limiting said boons to a 20 second CD has utterly killed that for me.
    Adding degen to spirits stops them being useful for taking aggro which has thus screwed a big part of my Ranger's playstyle.
    And add to that spirits now TP to me and their skills pop on my location rather than the enemy or where I placed them before.. which means i'm going to end up having to go in close to get any actual use out of them or straight up waste them for what little boons they now give..

    Yeah looks like you just straight up killed one of my favorite builds.. :(
    Not just nerfed my survivability which would be bad enough but completely screwed how I can even play the character and it's usefulness to others..
    It's very rare a balance patch does something that messes up one of my builds but it's safe to say this very much looks like one of them..

  • • Battle Standard: Resynced the time at which a banner appears to properly line up with the effect. When planted in the ground, this banner skill now deals damage to foes within a radius of 180. Foes who are in a downed state are now finished when damaged by Battle Standard.

    This sounds very useful for wvw, where there can be a lot of downed players.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NeoN.2193 said:
    Core guard in sPVP was already struggling at high ratings and wasn't outperforming in other tiers. That NERF is NOT NEEDED at all.

    Core guardian has been confirmed by Ben to be the build with the second highest win ratio after boonbeast. It performs better than Holosmith and Mirage.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭
    edited February 28, 2019

    Don't see something bad or wrong, only have some ideas:
    warrior:

    • Banners no longer have skills and are instead destroyed when they're picked up. ??
      so if I put banner's and kill elite someone can run near, click on my banner and it dissapear ?? I feel this is bad idea, may be will be good that rule "Banners can now only be picked up by the warrior who summoned them." just make my banner non tochable for others.

    because it looks like that I make mass boon, someone run near me, dispel it from himslef and also steal from me ..

  • still no glamour trait for mesmer??

    Nothing to see here - move along.

  • Synx.3750Synx.3750 Member
    edited February 28, 2019

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:
    Is Ele staff viable in spvp - no.
    is Ele dagger/anything competitive in spvp - no
    is Ele sceptre/anything competitive in spvp - no

    This patch - do anything to address this? no and we are not even talking about meta - what metrics are you looking at ?!!!!

    After over a Year of patches in spvp. Start bloody engaging with your customer base and actually listening, your costing Anet money and not providing good service.

    Just give up Ele like I did and main another class. Almost every other profession is more fun and more viable then Ele in all game modes.

  • @RAZOR.7246 said:

    @Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946 said:

    • Inspiring Battle Standard: This trait has been renamed Doubled Standards. It no longer causes banners to apply regeneration and instead causes the warrior to gain 5 seconds of swiftness when summoning or picking up a banner. Additionally, the banner effect improvements that are gained when this trait is equipped have been increased from 50% to 100%.

    That removes pretty much ALL of the group sustain that warriors could provide. And it deletes banners from my berserker entirely - I'll get more sustain from running Dolyak Signet instead of the Banner of Discipline that I currently carry. The entire reason that I have that banner when I am at group events like Octovine is strictly because of the regen it pumps out. That regen lets me out-sustain a large mob of bad guys when I'm soloing the open world on my berserker. The little bit of precision it granted was a bonus, but the regen was what really mattered to me. Without that regen, does Berserker have any thing to offer for group sustain, because all I am seeing is group dps buffs and no sustain.

    I really like the kit changes to the banners, and the recharge reductions, BUT, stripping regen from it is BAD.

    The effect improvements are exclusive to the warrior, they don't apply to any other group memebers. Theoretically it's a buff on the warrior itself but a huge nerf for banners on groups. Regeneration isn't the main issue with the banner nerf.

    Yeah, there are lots of issues with the banner change. However, the regen removal means that instead of you only getting 100 precision from my banner of discipline at octovine, now you're going to get ZERO, because I'm running dolyak signet instead of that banner.

  • @Synx.3750 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:
    Is Ele staff viable in spvp - no.
    is Ele dagger/anything competitive in spvp - no
    is Ele sceptre/anything competitive in spvp - no

    This patch - do anything to address this? no and we are not even talking about meta - what metrics are you looking at ?!!!!

    After over a Year of patches in spvp. Start bloody engaging with your customer base and actually listening, your costing Anet money and not providing good service.

    Just give up Ele like I did and main another class. Almost every other profession is more fun and more viable then Ele in all game modes.

    I would do, but i've been playing main mage since the 80's, i'm pot committed :)

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • talprofil.5986talprofil.5986 Member ✭✭
    edited February 28, 2019

    Some thoughts on Chrono and its development in the past.
    When I first tried getting into support Chrono, we still had the trait that casted a lesser SoI on Phantasm-Cast and Sigil of Concentration was meta. In the end that meant playing around two abstract concepts, the weapon swap for 33% boon duration and having your wells, SoI and lesser SoI hit within that timeframe. Especially managing the lesser SoI was completely intransparent.
    All that combined made it awkward and I didn't really like it.

    Removing the lesser SoI and making the boon duration from SoC constant was a great move to make Chrono gameplay a better experience. Boons were easy to share, you didn't have to look out for any weird stuff and just spam your boons without holding back and focus on the other mechanics that were interesting about Chrono (CC, sharing blocks, controlling adds).
    I had a lot of fun learning Chrono during that time.

    The big problem was that the new trait made SoI more than twice as good as it was and a spell that powerful would obviously be a spell you want to use with Mimic.
    Ever since that patch it feels like they're trying to tone down the interaction of SoI and Mimic with the unannounced final goal of making Chrono play with both wells again.
    In the process the gameplay of Chrono was downgraded with the change to the SoI that we have now and that makes it difficult to see if casting it will have the desired impact. Mimic interaction with CS was downgraded in a way that has no meaningful interaction but just says "this doesn't work because".

    After this failure to balance SoI you're now reducing it to 3s duration with a lowered CD, effectively increasing the abstraction of the optimal playstyle even further through the logic of boon stacking, rendering Mimic pointless to use over Well of Recall.
    I'm not going to bore you with the details but with the maximum stacks of alacrity being 5, the maximum time of alacrity you can stack drops by 8s to 17s and eventually causes you to drop Alacrity with SoI, WoA, Mimic on 2 100% boon duration chronos unless having absolutely perfect coordination.
    So effectively another sneaky hit. Although that isn't even necessary anymore. Firebrand+Renegade as boon core has been adapted as an alternative and even an alternative that is likely to have more damage with the same uptimes. I've seen it being accepted in pugs without issues and even my guild group pretty much stopped running chronos for boons.

    The problem is that it looks like you're balancing the traited spell to make other raid setups competitive (Sand Squall on Tempest is now literally the same spell as SoI except that it also grants Protection, is a blast finisher and has more cooldown) while making the spell close to useless in any other scenario. In a party of 5, I want to use SoI to bridge the gap between my quickness wells where Time Warp can't fill it. With 3s that is never going to be possible. The spell hardly feels impactful anymore and you will never be able to reach reasonable uptimes on your 2 staple boons even with maximum investment in boon duration outside of a 10 player context where another Chrono bolsters your boons.
    A proper solution wouldve been adding an additional effect that ticks over time so that using SoI twice in succession would lose out on the trait's benefit.
    Imagine something stupid like decreasing the speed at which boons run out by 33% for 15s. That would equal 5s of boons that are lost upon pressing SoI the second time while also making the spell easier to use as boons added after the effect will still gain a small benefit. It would break up that unholy bond the spell has to Raid squads right now. If you followed further down that road it would make the spell a ton easier to use with no need to play the bad squad UI. And it would pretty much have the same benefit that the old lesser SoI had except that it doesn't have the bad gameplay mechanic of being hidden behind some internal cooldown.

    Aside from that I'm quite intrigued but also a bit worried about the Gyro changes. While these will be a great thing for WvW and most likely also PvE, removing an almost spammable source of Weakness and the passive damage reduction from the Bulwark Gyro may put a dent into scrapper versus power specs in PvP. The barrier numbers on Bulwark Gyro will make or break the skill in that context.

  • All awesome.

    Now delete the Warclaw and your game will be fine. Revenue from skins for your mounts won't compare to how much you'll lose when players move to your competitors because you've changed the one thing the game-mode is based on: Movement.

    Preaching to the Loyalists who argued against this change at Anet.

  • I love that you are keeping the community informed and hope you do more of this in the future. I really like hearing the reasons behind the balance decisions and would love if you all did this for other types of patches as well.

  • Dear AnenaNet devs,

    Thank you for giving us this type of communication, we really appreciate it. Seeing the reasoning behind the changes and keeping comments open is something that will only do good for the game in the long run. I look forward to the patch going live and getting my kitty cat Warclaw., and whatever you decide to do in the future!

    P.S. I agree that cheese on beans on toast is amazing :)

  • Nice and informative communication - the outline of design thought/process is tremendous step forward. Keep up the hard work.

  • Even though you killed my enjoyment of chronomancer. T'is was a good patch anyways. Thanks.

  • good job slugger keep it up

  • Loving the communication :+1:

  • Thanks for the open communication! Keep it up :)

  • Amazin! B)

    Looking forward to more

  • Maik.7089Maik.7089 Member
    edited February 28, 2019

    Check if u have twitch Prime. If u do consider using it on your favourite Guild Wars 2 Streamer. Nice Patch and thanks for the Heads up.
    Subscribe to Mightyteapot with Twitch Prime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :+1:

  • Thank you for displaying the information in advance. It helps us feel connected and actually attempt to see your reasoning. Even for someone like me who is bad at understanding balance. Much more insightful than just looking at numbers going up / down.

    Also agreed Cheese on Beans on toast is good. But have you tried it in a Toastie

  • Great changes! :) Thank you for sharing your reasoning behind the changes and keeping the possibility for discussions open.

  • Amazin'!!!

  • Those are some really nice and refreshing changes! :o Especially the Winds Of Change look very interesting. Would love to hear about changes like this ahead of the actual patch more often, all the theory crafting is super exciting. Thanks for that!

  • Great changes and communication! B)
    I also find cheese on beans to be a delight on my tongue

  • Gweat changes ^w^ :) Wegawdwess of the exact nyumbews, thank you fow posting youw weasonying behind the changes as weww as keeping comments enyabwed. Communyication and discussions between the pwayewbase and devewopews awe a fantastic thing fow the communyity.

    Awso, cheese on beans on toast is weawwy good.

    Amazin'

  • I'm kind of feeling half-hearted about the game currently, but this patch is interesting. It makes me think some devs still hold on to hope. Good. My spending may be absent for a while, but I do hope for your success.

  • I wish there would be a slight slap on some bunker Chrono gameplay in pvp that may be slightly unfun to deal with, other than that the changes look really good escpecially the druid ones; rewarding active gameplay seems good and fun :) :+1:

  • Thanks for the update and the communication.
    Great work :)

  • I like this a lot, you are being very creative with the design of these balance changes. Personally, I like that you reintroduce the repeater skill for thief. I've only ever used it while leveling up a low level character, but now I could possibly use it in endgame content, without suffering from lack of stats from a off-hand weapon.

  • Gaberen.4325Gaberen.4325 Member ✭✭✭

    Literally unplayable

  • Buff shatterstone. Please and thank you.

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    Love the ranger and warrior changes. More active gameplay, yay ! :)

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RAZOR.7246 said:

    @Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946 said:

    • Inspiring Battle Standard: This trait has been renamed Doubled Standards. It no longer causes banners to apply regeneration and instead causes the warrior to gain 5 seconds of swiftness when summoning or picking up a banner. Additionally, the banner effect improvements that are gained when this trait is equipped have been increased from 50% to 100%.

    That removes pretty much ALL of the group sustain that warriors could provide. And it deletes banners from my berserker entirely - I'll get more sustain from running Dolyak Signet instead of the Banner of Discipline that I currently carry. The entire reason that I have that banner when I am at group events like Octovine is strictly because of the regen it pumps out. That regen lets me out-sustain a large mob of bad guys when I'm soloing the open world on my berserker. The little bit of precision it granted was a bonus, but the regen was what really mattered to me. Without that regen, does Berserker have any thing to offer for group sustain, because all I am seeing is group dps buffs and no sustain.

    I really like the kit changes to the banners, and the recharge reductions, BUT, stripping regen from it is BAD.

    The effect improvements are exclusive to the warrior, they don't apply to any other group memebers. Theoretically it's a buff on the warrior itself but a huge nerf for banners on groups. Regeneration isn't the main issue with the banner nerf.

    It's not even a buff for the warrior. remember, that while the % buff will be higher than now, it will also be calculated from a much lower baseline. The end result is a 55 point stat nerf with that trait.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @NeoN.2193 said:
    Core guard in sPVP was already struggling at high ratings and wasn't outperforming in other tiers. That NERF is NOT NEEDED at all.

    Core guardian has been confirmed by Ben to be the build with the second highest win ratio after boonbeast. It performs better than Holosmith and Mirage.

    That is not a measurement matrix. Cuz the first question would be at what rating are we talking? Cuz for class balance discussion any game below 1500 average rating does not matter at all. For games with average of rating 1500+ Is core guardian the second highest win ratio, out performing mirage and holo? I dunno, but the answer is probably not. How many of the top 100 players are playing core guardian?

    Also, following the same logic, boon beast, which is supposedly the biggest offender. Yet soul beast had minuscule nerfs where core guardian lost about 15% overall damage. What is the logic here?

  • Caine.8204Caine.8204 Member ✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    @NeroBoron.7285 said:

    Mesmer
    Expected a change/nerf to Evasive Mirror here, in my opinion it gives more survivalbility then that 1/4second longer dodge. Not sure on the SoI changes.
    Most nerfs were expected there since mirage is to strong in roaming. But for group / zerg setups mesmer isn't that great. I hope we see changes there in the future.

    Evasive Mirror only blocks projectiles, which heavily limits it already. It has to be a successful evasion, which limits it again. Then, it only lasts 2s. They can do a maximum of 2 of these every 15 seconds with permanent vigor, so it has a maximum uptime of 13.33%. Lowering the mirage image duration reduces their overall "iframes" from 59% to 51.7%, taking into account Axe 3 (.75/8s), Jaunt (1s/30s), the shadowstep utility (.75s/20s) distortion (4s/42.5s), dodges now (1.5s/15s) heal skill mirage image (.75s/25s), staff 2 blink (.5s/8s), and blink (2s/30s).

  • ROMANG.1903ROMANG.1903 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    Again a bit unsatisfied by the elementalist changes... The shouts buffs are really nice but I'd like to see more things changed. A Tempest class mechanic that actually feels like a mechanic instead of a mere AOE cooldown, for example. But most importantly this update does nothing to fix the inherent problems people have been pointing out for years now. I see others classes receive reworks on their gyros or spirits... When do we get our summoned weapons rework? :/

    As a whole, I also hope to see one day new core elite skills added. The elementalist could use a signet elite and an arcane elite, the thief could get a trap elite... And so on. We are in dire need of more elite skills options, those we have right now make me feel very restricted in how I can use them.

  • @Willowsheart.7940 said:
    Wow, thank you for the update. I am a little baffled by this one though .................Repeater: For builds that use a pistol in their main hand with no off-hand weapon, the damage of this skill has been increased by 20%. Striking a foe with this skill now applies 4 seconds of bleeding per hit.............................Who does not use an off hand weapon? I mean is that a thing? Or am I misunderstanding.
    Truly though, thank you so very much for posting this.

    too true here. there isnt a serious player in the game that would go pistol main hand with no off hand. giving up two skills for a small increase in damage doesnt make any sense.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I feel a nerf to ranger spirit duration and sustainability. .. Have to try to know.

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • thiefs Cloak and Dagger skill made unblockable "could" bring Dagger dagger power thief back as kinda playable as well as be a small buff to the other dagger off hand builds. i dont think it would change the game completely but it would sure bring back some old builds. just a thought.

  • @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    Better than expected to be honest.

    Good changes:
    Hitting most of the mesmer nerfs towards mirage and specifically mirage cloak is a step in the right direction. Chrono is still viable so Mesmers still have something to play. It's good that most of these nerfs don't hit core.
    Deadeye stealth was one of those things that while not technically overpowered in sPvP was still non interactive and bad for the game. Gutting it was a wise change.
    Reduction of stab on Holo is possibly the biggest thing it needed
    Reduction of stances on Soulbeast to hit the boonspam said stances provide is also a good direction.
    Ele might have a viable build now

    Neutral changes:
    Warrior changes I get are for PvE only, but overall a huge nothingburger for the class as far as WvW and PvP go.
    Revenant. Sidegrading Targeted destruction for less burst but higher potential won't change much. As many Revs have stated, a better way to reduce burst damage without nerfing the class is to just revert sword 4 back to duelist prep. This change kind of works too but overall I don't see Revs current spot in the meta changing much at all with these.
    LMAO Daredevil d/p buffed

    Bad changes:
    Core guard was honestly overnerfed and Firebrand needed no buffs. 50 to 25% is a bit much. 33% would have been less overzealous.
    Most of the "bad" of this patch is what it didn't do. For instance, Fresh Reinforcement is still ridiculous. Mantra Bunk is still unkillable when played right. Renegade is still winning the prize for most neglected PoF spec.

    Overall B+

    how did dare devil dp get buffed?

  • pistol main hand dagger off hand build isnt bad because of the damage, its bad for the same reason dagger main hand dagger off hand power build is bad.

    your burst and survivability is gated behind a blockable Cloak and Dagger skill in a meta where just about everyone has active/passive blocks and invuln with a decent uptime. its very hard to play well so it isnt used often.

    making Cloak and Dagger unblockable will help your pistol dagger build as well as your dagger dagger build, and will very mildly help your sword dagger build but not really because the play style doesnt require the stealth. its better to save your innitiative for the flanking strike thats already unblockable and grants access to your main burst.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @The Mechanic.3567 said:

    @Willowsheart.7940 said:
    Wow, thank you for the update. I am a little baffled by this one though .................Repeater: For builds that use a pistol in their main hand with no off-hand weapon, the damage of this skill has been increased by 20%. Striking a foe with this skill now applies 4 seconds of bleeding per hit.............................Who does not use an off hand weapon? I mean is that a thing? Or am I misunderstanding.
    Truly though, thank you so very much for posting this.

    too true here. there isnt a serious player in the game that would go pistol main hand with no off hand. giving up two skills for a small increase in damage doesnt make any sense.

    I think this is the rare skill change for early game play. Like, new characters (level 10 or less) that might somehow not have a 2nd weapon?

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • HardRider.2980HardRider.2980 Member ✭✭✭

    Interesting balance... Curious to see how things will change.. :+1:

    A City of Heroes never die... A City of Villains will never surrender... Neither City will be forgotten.

  • melrokk.5938melrokk.5938 Member ✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Been running Ranger spirits for years.

    Guess i'm finally going to have to change my main build.. Really not liking the sound of these spirit changes.
    The boon spam is one of the things I relied on for survivability and support... taking that away and limiting said boons to a 20 second CD has utterly killed that for me.
    Adding degen to spirits stops them being useful for taking aggro which has thus screwed a big part of my Ranger's playstyle.
    And add to that spirits now TP to me and their skills pop on my location rather than the enemy or where I placed them before.. which means i'm going to end up having to go in close to get any actual use out of them or straight up waste them for what little boons they now give..

    Yeah looks like you just straight up killed one of my favorite builds.. :(
    Not just nerfed my survivability which would be bad enough but completely screwed how I can even play the character and it's usefulness to others..
    It's very rare a balance patch does something that messes up one of my builds but it's safe to say this very much looks like one of them..

    I absolutely agree with you.
    After such a nerf perfume, the druid will fly out of the meta forever.
    600 range is very small :angry: :(
    To receive gifts, you need to constantly press on the spirit! :(
    And yet, what upset me the most, is that the more goals the spirit buffs, the faster its health supply ends :(

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