Upcoming Balance Notes - Page 7 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming Balance Notes

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  • At this point chrono has been killed for raiding/ T4 fractals/CMs as a support. We put so much time and gold into building these chrono support builds and now it’s not even viable. Moreover players aren’t compensated for these drastic changes. At the very least make some improvements to your raiding content before nerfing the backbone of it. Or make boon share/chrono tank a thing again.

  • Kanok.3027Kanok.3027 Member ✭✭✭

    My favorite class, Revenant, gets the shaft again. Still love the class, but ugh. When will it ever end?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Necromancer
    We'll be pushing some of its damage higher through skill updates in PvE, but will be mostly leaving it alone in competitive modes, as all the necromancer specializations have a healthy representation in competitive game modes._

    So what you just told me is that necromancer is balanced based on popularity rather than effectiveness.

    Explains a lot about the class.

    More appropriately ... it's balanced on theme and the overall player's reaction to playing a class IS the appropriate measure for the classes health ... and if anyone thought or was hoping otherwise, they haven't been paying attention to the changes the game has been going through for the last 6+ years.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    Please... make DH 25% movement not reliant on a major trait... make it a minor. That will fix SO many issues. Buff longbow 2 dmg by 20 percent in PvP... make lb 3 knockback baseline... BOOM... DH is ready for PvP

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    Don't see something bad or wrong, only have some ideas:
    warrior:

    • Banners no longer have skills and are instead destroyed when they're picked up. ??
      so if I put banner's and kill elite someone can run near, click on my banner and it dissapear ?? I feel this is bad idea, may be will be good that rule "Banners can now only be picked up by the warrior who summoned them." just make my banner non tochable for others.

    because it looks like that I make mass boon, someone run near me, dispel it from himslef and also steal from me ..

    It says under the banner changes

    Banners can now only be picked up by the warrior who summoned them.

    The answer is no someone else cant pick up your banners

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    @MisterDapper.5984 said:
    At this point chrono has been killed for raiding/ T4 fractals/CMs as a support. We put so much time and gold into building these chrono support builds and now it’s not even viable. Moreover players aren’t compensated for these drastic changes. At the very least make some improvements to your raiding content before nerfing the backbone of it. Or make boon share/chrono tank a thing again.

    Yeah its players being penalized for how specs work in different game modes as well as players who just want things passively done for them. Although it may satisfy some players its just going to be the final nail in the coffin for a lot of players if this balance patch goes in like this. At this point they do not really care about retaining players they are doing what other companies are doing and going to the mobile and game console platforms like playstation and xbox for that next playerbase. So if they want to do this can't stop them but I'm not going to stick around for it.

  • @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @CombatEvolve.9238 said:

    @mordefelix.5826 said:
    Hey so does this mean an overall nerf to warrior banners? Because the 100% bonus wouldn't that give a 200 in terms of stats vs the 170 before? How does the math work?

    Warriors with Disclipine trait line currently have 255 stats from banners, which will be reduced to 200. Everyone else has 170 from banners, but will get only 100 from banners after patch.
    Its an overall nerf to everyone, where Disc warriors suffer slightly less. ( Loss of 55 stats rather than 70)

    Tempest got some support buff but its overall depressing . I can understand that Mirage is too strong in pvp or that Renegades condi damge is too big in PvE also DH's burst was a bit too strong but banners and Chrono ?. Banners are a core ability which exists forever also a good warrior can make more dps then a DH and Chrono isn't a over powerd PoF elite. I haven't done the number but in fractals because they take a DPS slot they are dangerously close to become obsolete with this.

    I properly will finish my legendary weapon fetch the warclaw then turn my activity in gw 2 to minimum and take a look into my steam library enough unfinished games,

    Banners have been incredibly strong since forever. 170 power/condi/prec/fero adds a lot of power to 10 people; I personally disagree with the nerfs to boon chrono and SotE . I feel like they are pushing too hard to make Mimic SoI bad when it should be an option. ToT I feel like should have been Alac going out, Quickness going in if they felt like it; cause the current CS opener has no quick alac.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    _Righteous Instincts has been an incredibly potent trait since it was reworked to grant a large boost to the player's critical-hit chance. Because of this, it has crowded out other grandmaster options for the radiance build. In this update, we're bringing down the power of this trait to be more in line with other grandmaster traits and to give a little boost to its competition.

    But what about replace Righteous Instincts (+50% crit chance with some might) and Retribution (+10% damage +250 ferocity)? Move might application from Righteous Instincts to Retribution to make it new grandmaster trait. In this case we have 2 options for power builds: deal more damage with Retribution or have some party support via signets. And old power builds will be the same

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No reason to use Radiance anymore. The only trait I find useful other than Righteous Instincts was Retribution since I didn't use F1 often enough. Amplified Wrath's change is laughable since 5% duration to burning for one skill is nothing to consider and removing its only really good effect means why use it? And when you aren't using Signets Perfect Inscriptions doesn't even matter.

    The 50% from Righteous Instincts along with the other traits was just barely enough to get to 80% Crit chance in total, but since the nerf is bringing my Guardian to 55% I'm just going to use a different line. Virtues or Zeal with Honor seems alright, even with the Honorable Staff trait nerf.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Also I get that Chronomancer is overpowered and needs reworks. But can you stop and just release the reworks at once? Every. Single. Patch. We have to deal with some extremely disruptive balance changes that require us to shift out our gear stats, runes, sigils and trinket and learn a completely new rotation. It's exhausting. Can you just slow down and release a major rework when it's good and ready? Chronomancer has received more radical changes, reworks, and aggressive balance approaches to it's skills and abilities as well as targeted nerfs to the gear it uses than any other class or build in the game. Like can we just get it dealt with in one go? Having to change gear and learn an entirely new rotation every. single. patch is unfun, obnoxious and oppressive.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • hmmm, last time I checked Thief was in a bad spot for pvp (and somewhat in pve due to lack of utility). I don't think this will fix that at all.

  • Dediggefedde.4961Dediggefedde.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    The gyro change sounds awsome!

    Interestingly, the proposal for "wells" (moving AoE effect without HP bars) was made some weeks ago in the engi-forum for the function gyro.
    And I only the function gyro is not changed now. ^^

    • shredder gyro is now the new laser-disc.
    • WvW-Healscrapper might be running purge or blast gyro in addition to EG & bulwark, depending on their strength.
    • If blast gyro does enough might stacking and CC to push the spec more in PvE, it might also be worth it in WvW guild setups.
    • If purge gyro does something like 1 group cleanse per 2 seconds at moderate CD, it's a nice addition, (even though a bit unneeded).
    • Bulwark-gyro might be dropped, though... If this works like retaliation, it's also unblockable and unavoidable damage depending on your group's movement. in a 1vs1 it might be nice for the barrier and in WvW zergs for the dmg reduction, but it highly depends on if the barrier to dmg-redirection ratio will instantly kill you in a zerg.
    • Medic gyro will probably still be less usefull than medikit, since it lacks condi-clear and burst-heal.
    • sneak gyro is really nice for pvp/wvw. though, I guess the CD will drastically change, since a 30s long moving smoke field is a bit OP. ^^

    The change on flameblast seems nice, but feels kind of random in this update...

  • No wonder people refuse to play chronos anymore . At this point either kill the class permanently and replace it with another class or let it be. Every single patch...

    It feels like instead of doing a proper change to chrono it gets small hotfixes ever single patch. Every single patch people need to regear and learn complete new rotation.

  • rank eleven monk.9502rank eleven monk.9502 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just realized Dagger Storm is getting a free pass. Lmao

  • Jables.4659Jables.4659 Member ✭✭

    "Exhaustion: This boon now stacks in duration up to 3 times." As others have mentioned, this is not a boon. When I first read this I thought "Oh cool, this must mean that they're finally tinkering with Elusive Mind." I wonder if the devs even realize that Mirage only has one option only for its Grandmaster trait. Sand Shards has the potential to reveal you on dodge as well as being underwhelming compared to Infinite Horizon on condition builds. Elusive Mind is already really bad. 6 seconds of exhaustion is just too much to cope with for a spec that relies so heavily on its dodges. Can't wait to test out the potential 18 second exhaustion meme. In all seriousness, the fact that this isn't seen as a problem to Anet means the balance team is either completely incompetent or genuinely hasn't noticed the issue. Either way, its a problem.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mumumu.1683 said:
    No wonder people refuse to play chronos anymore . At this point either kill the class permanently and replace it with another class or let it be. Every single patch...

    It feels like instead of doing a proper change to chrono it gets small hotfixes ever single patch. Every single patch people need to regear and learn complete new rotation.

    Not if you don't raid with it. A power shatter Chrono is still great for general use.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Jables.4659Jables.4659 Member ✭✭

    @veslarius.8425 said:
    Why nerf core guard? It's already countered by Core War, Spellbreaker, Bunk Druid, Boonbeast, Condi-Mirage, Holosmith, and Scrapper. The only thing its good at fighting is all Thief classes, Necros, Condi-Engi, and Power Mes. It used to counter Rev but not since their dps buff.

    If you want to nerf something nerf the pet dps of bunk ranger builds especially referring to Bunk Druid and Boon Beast. Nerf Deadeye stealth, engi turret heal, Mesmer damage mitigation aka -Blocks-Blinds-Invuln-Evades-Stealth-Teleport- all these together are a bit much.

    They did nerf Mesmer damage mitigation. Reducing the evade time to that of a normal dodge is going to be significant. Any mirage with a brain is already running energy sigils on both weapon sets, that with the longer evade is the main reason they feel so cancerous to fight (that and the conditions which is also being nerfed).

  • JMaarse.7086JMaarse.7086 Member ✭✭

    Thank you for sharing the notes early!

    I would like to give some feedback from a raid perspective:

    • I really like the change to Perfect Inscriptions, it might make it compete with Righteous Instincts, and provide more active gameplay.
    • I'm not sure about Amplified Wrath, is the 15% modifier on burn damage still there? Is the 20% burn duration base or is it affected by condition duration cap? This trait could be a buff or a huge nerf to condition firebrand, depending on the answers.
    • I am really sad about the change to Signet of the Ether, not because of the dps nerf, but because it was a really satisfying trick to pull off, and now chrono gameplay is just dumbed down even more.
    • About support chrono, the boon uptimes don't change at all, the rotation is just different and the opening is now really annoying (you need to wait until ToT returns before you can cast SoI, or you won't extend alacrity, which probably means you can't use ToT in your opening CS). I don't understand why support chrono gameplay gets changed every patch, without actually changing the result. If permanent quickness and alacrity with 2 chronos is the goal, might as well make it less annoying to play (not easier), Just remove SoI at this point and make wells give boons on the first pulse or something like that, or give back the old SoI but 5 man and don't let it share resistance maybe.
    • Power reaper buffs are nice, but I think they can get even more.
    • I love the ranger spirit changes! Only thing that has me worried is the change to Nature's Vengeance, because sun spirit was the only reliable source of vigor, and it is now no longer 100% uptime. I don't know if this is an oversight, or if we are not supposed to have 100% vigor, but I really suggest giving more classes access to (AoE) vigor.
    • About power revenenant, again it is acknowledged that it is under performing, but again the changes are nowhere near enough, 2.5% point damage increase and a buff to shackling wave is not enough and also at the same time the dps against large hitboxes is nerfed with Inspiring Reinforcement.
    • The change to Song of the Mists is laughable unfortunately, even with these buffs no one will run this over Roiling Mists on power dps and Charged Mists on condi or support builds.
    • I like the banner change, but I'm not sure about the reasoning behind it. Power warrior with banners really does not do a lot of damage, so perhaps that deserved a buff, while condi berserker does a lot of damage and taking banners is only a small sacrifice, so maybe that deserved a nerf. Also it seems strange to me that the recharge is reduced by 60 seconds on pickup regardless of the time the banner was been in place.

    Overall the meta won't change at all after this patch, which is slightly disappointing, but overall I like most of the changes. I would love to see a big shakeup at some point. I really think support chrono needs a clear vision, because right now it is changing every patch but the boon stay the same, which just annoys chrono players more than anything else.

    Small side note on WvW: I think it would be good if firebrand and scrourge (and perhaps herald) would be tuned down a bit to make room for more classes in the meta, which I'm sad didn't happen this patch.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Necromancer
    We'll be pushing some of its damage higher through skill updates in PvE, but will be mostly leaving it alone in competitive modes, as all the necromancer specializations have a healthy representation in competitive game modes._

    So what you just told me is that necromancer is balanced based on popularity rather than effectiveness.

    Explains a lot about the class.

    More appropriately ... it's balanced on theme

    While every other class isn't? Seems fair.

    and the overall player's reaction to playing a class IS the appropriate measure for the classes health ... and if anyone thought or was hoping otherwise, they haven't been paying attention to the changes the game has been going through for the last 6+ years.

  • The Soulbeast changes should make their way to WvW as well.

    I completely agree with nerfing the stealth gained from Silent Scope. However, thanks to Shadow Arts trait Meld with Shadows (+1s to your stealth granting skills), they might still be able to stay in stealth for an extended period, before cutting you down with Assassin's Signet + Malicious Backstab anyway. Tying stealth to dodging was never a good idea, and we'll still be reminded of that after the patch goes live.

  • Lord of the Fire.6870Lord of the Fire.6870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2019

    @CombatEvolve.9238 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @CombatEvolve.9238 said:

    @mordefelix.5826 said:
    Hey so does this mean an overall nerf to warrior banners? Because the 100% bonus wouldn't that give a 200 in terms of stats vs the 170 before? How does the math work?

    Warriors with Disclipine trait line currently have 255 stats from banners, which will be reduced to 200. Everyone else has 170 from banners, but will get only 100 from banners after patch.
    Its an overall nerf to everyone, where Disc warriors suffer slightly less. ( Loss of 55 stats rather than 70)

    Tempest got some support buff but its overall depressing . I can understand that Mirage is too strong in pvp or that Renegades condi damge is too big in PvE also DH's burst was a bit too strong but banners and Chrono ?. Banners are a core ability which exists forever also a good warrior can make more dps then a DH and Chrono isn't a over powerd PoF elite. I haven't done the number but in fractals because they take a DPS slot they are dangerously close to become obsolete with this.

    I properly will finish my legendary weapon fetch the warclaw then turn my activity in gw 2 to minimum and take a look into my steam library enough unfinished games,

    Banners have been incredibly strong since forever. 170 power/condi/prec/fero adds a lot of power to 10 people; I personally disagree with the nerfs to boon chrono and SotE . I feel like they are pushing too hard to make Mimic SoI bad when it should be an option. ToT I feel like should have been Alac going out, Quickness going in if they felt like it; cause the current CS opener has no quick alac.

    In raids its will still work sthe problem is 5 man content you have bring enough boost for DPS with you to compensate for your lose by having a warrior carrying banners. This was already questioned if this is enough in the past because you effectively only boosting 2 other dps classes in this setup.

    On the other side I have seen warriors with absolute insane DPS leaving DH in the dust and basically have 2x of the dps as a good staff weaver. Rarely seem them but I doubt they will share their build ^^

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    Could you please not do the inspiring reinforcement change? Litterally all this change does is make sure pve power rev DPS is kitten on all hit-box sizes. It also hurts jalis in pvp but no one uses it there and they certainly won't after this. You are just kicking a dead build that you already killed off years ago with the facet of nature/soi nerfs. And no, the targeted destruction and shackling wave changes are not nearly adequate compensation, the basic math isn't hard to figure that out.

  • Kirin.7306Kirin.7306 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't even want to log in anymore.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Necromancer
    We'll be pushing some of its damage higher through skill updates in PvE, but will be mostly leaving it alone in competitive modes, as all the necromancer specializations have a healthy representation in competitive game modes._

    So what you just told me is that necromancer is balanced based on popularity rather than effectiveness.

    Explains a lot about the class.

    More appropriately ... it's balanced on theme

    While every other class isn't? Seems fair.

    Seems that EVERY class to me is balanced primarily on theme .. that's why none of them are inline with a common performance target. At least not yet ... maybe in 4-6 more years.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Druitt.7629Druitt.7629 Member ✭✭

    This seems like a pretty ideal patch overall. I see quite a few things that players requested in their profession forums that made it into the patch. So kudos ANet.

    The downside is that they really need to do an incremental-ish balance patch like this every month. Make smaller changes, but often, and when well-thought-out and modest suggestions are made in profession forums, give them very serious consideration.

    Not saying they didn't ignore some long-running issues, not saying they didn't tone something down that was arguably not over-the-top, not saying that they fixed everything and now it's good. Quite the opposite: a lot needs to be done. BUT the point is they definitely made good and requested changes without rocking the boat too much and if they could do this every month, in six or 8 months they'd have an amazingly-polished product.

    Overall, I'm very happy with the patch. Though if it's 3 months until the next one, that will pretty much have wasted the good will and the opportunity. Hopefully, the recent, painful shake-up will refocus efforts so smaller, more frequent patches will guide the professions to a long-term goal.

  • RAZOR.7246RAZOR.7246 Member ✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    @Druitt.7629
    Overall, I'm very happy with the patch. Though if it's 3 months until the next one, that will pretty much have wasted the good will and the opportunity. Hopefully, the recent, painful shake-up will refocus efforts so smaller, more frequent patches will guide the professions to a long-term goal.

    The problem is that these types of changes have been made in the past and taken months before any fix is made. It's becoming a common theme to nerf something into oblivion and then wait months before it becomes viable again. The was a poll done a while back where the majority response was that people want to play their main class but switch occasionally for certain things. With these kinds of changes you're looking at players being forced off classes that they want to play for certain content.

    This is not the only issue. Changes such as the warrior banner nerf are being done without any viable alternatives being provided to players. It is an integral part of the current meta as banners affect even gear compositions for certain classes. This kind of change is in line with previous nerfs to chronos and druids which appear to be done without any regard for how they'll affect the meta and the fact that it has even taken this long for them to be nerfed to the point of no viability is indicative of a rudderless ship just sailing with the wind. This is not the first time that such a major change has been done that ultimately just nerfs everything and quite frankly reduces the enjoyability of the game for players.

    Sure people have been calling for banners to be altered in some way because they've been too important in the meta for too long. But these changes just leave it as just as important a part of the meta as it previously was but with a reduced effectiveness. The main problem is that it takes too long for certain classes to be buffed to the point where they replace the existing meta while concurrently the current approach is to just nerf everything until something else becomes moderately viable. Ultimately what we get is a diminished game experience for months on end.

    To replace the effectiveness of banners something could have been done with guardian or chrono signets for example where signet sharing could become the new replacements for banners and EA while at the same time buffing warrior DPS in accordance to what they've said they've wanted to do. These patch notes in it's current state are just poor and are just going to annoy a lot of people. I can only speculate that those in charge of balancing don't play this game as frequently as some of us do because these changes are unaccepted from certain perspectives and they keep happening.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    1) Good job in breaking Dragonhunter and core guardian!
    2) Get a test server already! Paper notes don't work.

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    Not sure what was wrong with Chrono btw. Someone enlighten me please? I never found them difficult to fight. Mirage, on the other hand, is hands down broken to the core and that infinite clone spam + condi application definitely needs to go.

  • Apokriphos.7042Apokriphos.7042 Member ✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Necromancer
    We'll be pushing some of its damage higher through skill updates in PvE, but will be mostly leaving it alone in competitive modes, as all the necromancer specializations have a healthy representation in competitive game modes._

    So what you just told me is that necromancer is balanced based on popularity rather than effectiveness.

    Explains a lot about the class.

    More appropriately ... it's balanced on theme

    While every other class isn't? Seems fair.

    Seems that EVERY class to me is balanced primarily on theme .. that's why none of them are inline with a common performance target. At least not yet ... maybe in 4-6 more years.

    So you believe Anet doesnt care about comparative performance between the classes in modes such as PvP, WvW and Raids, they only care about the % of each class representated in each mode.

    Two things: This concept invalidates the idea of balance in PvP, and says that we as players should only keep following the flavor of the month to win most often.
    It also says the balance developers have chosen to continue to chase their own tail, since they lack a common performance target for each class. This means they waste time, resources, and money to constantly rebalance against player interest, which will be as constantly changing as fashion trends do.

    It's not difficult to see why this method doesnt bode well for GW2.

  • Loosmaster.8263Loosmaster.8263 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    1) Good job in breaking Dragonhunter and core guardian!
    2) Get a test server already! Paper notes don't work.

    How did it break DH? They increased range on one bow skill. The bow still sucks in WvW unless you cloud the zerg and don't run in it. It's more useful in PvE, lol.

    Playing the PvE scene because WvW is just "BAD"...

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    1) Good job in breaking Dragonhunter and core guardian!
    2) Get a test server already! Paper notes don't work.

    How did it break DH? They increased range on one bow skill. The bow still sucks in WvW unless you cloud the zerg and don't run in it. It's more useful in PvE, lol.

    They broke it by removing it's main source of damage, which was Righteous Instincts... Without that, power guard will lose most it's damage. That's how they broke it.

  • Loosmaster.8263Loosmaster.8263 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    1) Good job in breaking Dragonhunter and core guardian!
    2) Get a test server already! Paper notes don't work.

    How did it break DH? They increased range on one bow skill. The bow still sucks in WvW unless you cloud the zerg and don't run in it. It's more useful in PvE, lol.

    They broke it by removing it's main source of damage, which was Righteous Instincts... Without that, power guard will lose most it's damage. That's how they broke it.

    But that is not affecting the Elite. I don't run that trait line. I guess it's how you play. If you follow the Meta's all the time you'll end up getting screwed on every balance patch.

    Playing the PvE scene because WvW is just "BAD"...

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    1) Good job in breaking Dragonhunter and core guardian!
    2) Get a test server already! Paper notes don't work.

    How did it break DH? They increased range on one bow skill. The bow still sucks in WvW unless you cloud the zerg and don't run in it. It's more useful in PvE, lol.

    They broke it by removing it's main source of damage, which was Righteous Instincts... Without that, power guard will lose most it's damage. That's how they broke it.

    But that is not affecting the Elite. I don't run that trait line. I guess it's how you play. If you follow the Meta's all the time you'll end up getting screwed on every balance patch.

    Well, i'll bow to your obvious expertise and refrain from commenting.

  • Loosmaster.8263Loosmaster.8263 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    1) Good job in breaking Dragonhunter and core guardian!
    2) Get a test server already! Paper notes don't work.

    How did it break DH? They increased range on one bow skill. The bow still sucks in WvW unless you cloud the zerg and don't run in it. It's more useful in PvE, lol.

    They broke it by removing it's main source of damage, which was Righteous Instincts... Without that, power guard will lose most it's damage. That's how they broke it.

    But that is not affecting the Elite. I don't run that trait line. I guess it's how you play. If you follow the Meta's all the time you'll end up getting screwed on every balance patch.

    Well, i'll bow to your obvious expertise and refrain from commenting.

    Nah, you can keep commenting. I was just kind of pointing out the change screwed Guardian as a whole and not just affecting the DH trait line.

    Playing the PvE scene because WvW is just "BAD"...

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    I bet 10 Gold Unhireted combat will stack these seconds now so DD will end up with 30 min of exhaustion after he dodges first time in the fight xD

  • spartan.9421spartan.9421 Member ✭✭✭

    @DarkEagle.7381 said:

    @spartan.9421 said:
    The best part about this update is everyone freaking out and overreacting despite the patch not even being live yet.

    Well, some "freak outs" are justified such as the lack of Mirage nerfs in PvE. Tell me how waiting for the patch will magically manifest in PvE Mirage nerfs?

    Tell me how freaking out is going to help with anything. Answer: it won't. Constructive criticism and helpful feedback after the patch is what will help ANET make the right adjustments.

    Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be answered.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    @Apokriphos.7042 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Necromancer
    We'll be pushing some of its damage higher through skill updates in PvE, but will be mostly leaving it alone in competitive modes, as all the necromancer specializations have a healthy representation in competitive game modes._

    So what you just told me is that necromancer is balanced based on popularity rather than effectiveness.

    Explains a lot about the class.

    More appropriately ... it's balanced on theme

    While every other class isn't? Seems fair.

    Seems that EVERY class to me is balanced primarily on theme .. that's why none of them are inline with a common performance target. At least not yet ... maybe in 4-6 more years.

    So you believe Anet doesnt care about comparative performance between the classes in modes such as PvP, WvW and Raids, they only care about the % of each class representated in each mode.

    I'm not sure I would say they don't care about comparative performance, but it's pretty obvious it's not the primary reason they make changes. If it was primary, then why don't we have performance balance yet? I mean, how long do you think it should take them to give you that kind of balance because it's over 6 years now ...

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • RAZOR.7246RAZOR.7246 Member ✭✭

    @spartan.9421 said:
    Tell me how freaking out is going to help with anything. Answer: it won't. Constructive criticism and helpful feedback after the patch is what will help ANET make the right adjustments.

    While freaking out doesn't help anyone, there's no reason why this format of feedback before an actual patch hits can't work. There are a lot of points made on here that are valid. There's no point waiting another 3 months for a change when some feedback can be given now to prevent some of these changes. This kind of open communication with players regarding changes is important for the future of the game so that players aren't left in the dark for months on end. As hard as some on here may find it to believe not all balance decisions are the best thing for the game and the player experience and some players may have something worthwhile to contribute.

  • Aloha, namaste! #love4arenanet

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    in general I like the direction these change are headed.
    praise be trollnet:
    • Repeater: For builds that use a pistol in their main hand with no off-hand weapon, the damage of this skill has been increased by 20%. Striking a foe with this skill now applies 4 seconds of bleeding per hit.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Hyper Cutter.9376Hyper Cutter.9376 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Not sure what was wrong with Chrono btw. Someone enlighten me please? I never found them difficult to fight. Mirage, on the other hand, is hands down broken to the core and that infinite clone spam + condi application definitely needs to go.

    Chronomancer being the end-all-and-be-all of PVE support is what's wrong with it. That should never have been allowed in the first place, and there's no way around nerfing it now.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2019

    Basically zero change. Even the gyro "rework" just plays into how Scrapper is already a spammy, low effort, PBAoE facetanker They'll just press an extra button or two and deal more damage (or be more immune to incoming effects) while doing the exact same thing that they've always done. Ranger spirits merely received a basic boi QoL change which itself doesn't really address how the skill subtype is hopelessly bland and outclassed, bringing neither movement to combat nor providing anything useful to any team or individual player. The only remotely interesting patch changes are:

    • Harbinger Shroud because it a proper mechanical alteration to an existing skill with a delayed pay-off (which implies positioning and timing) rather than just being more boons or an increased duration slapped onto already-existing effects
    • Banner changes which aren't even really that good in the end since they don't really alter how the banners are used in any way outside of the Battle Standard (which probably won't see play in PvP anyway because Rampage is just too low effort for its returns)

    Man, I can't believe that that's really it. Neat that these were spoiled prior to the update, but the whole patch could have dropped and it probably wouldn't have ended up affecting the game beyond a few days of PvP meme builds running their course before things fell back into the usual stale meta.

  • So all the ridiculous one shot builds in wvw haven't been nerfed yet.

    Cya next patch i guess.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Not sure what was wrong with Chrono btw. Someone enlighten me please? I never found them difficult to fight. Mirage, on the other hand, is hands down broken to the core and that infinite clone spam + condi application definitely needs to go.

    Chronomancer being the end-all-and-be-all of PVE support is what's wrong with it. That should never have been allowed in the first place, and there's no way around nerfing it now.

    It's not Chrono's fault that GW2 is an incredibly shallow game that has 5-6 too many classes for its own good. It was the first build in the game to provide a unique buff to parties in PvE content, of course it was going to take command of every PvE instance amidst a sea of generic DPS classes.

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2019

    Another hit on Mesmer? I personally feel like if a Mesmer succeeds they are going to be nerfed. it's my favorite class but I find I can't play it effectively.

    The bar on Mesmer is being set so high that only a young video gamer with the concomitant reaction times can play it.

    I've been playing this game for more than 6 years. Mesmer is my favorite class, both GW1 and GW2.... Please consider making a relatively easy-to-play build.

    I feel that ANET has catered too much to a narrow demographic of players.. making the game more and more difficult to play and enjoy.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    As a quick note: It is easy to judge a change in isolation – I ask that you consider how the full set of changes in tandem will affect Tyria.

    Sincerely,
    GW2 Systems team

    Love how this was added. I'm going to go and say thanks for the update and heads up, but I feel that everything up until now for mesmer was done to cater to the crowd that whines the loudest.
    There have been super questionable balance changes since Feb. of last year, and every time things were changed it seemed like it was done to cater to the wrong complaints.
    Maybe other feedback identifying outliers and more direct nerfs to issues never made it to your team?

    General
    • Fixed a bug in which some ring effects with a range of 600 were appearing larger than they should.
    • Exhaustion: This effect now stacks in duration up to 3 times.

    So Elusive Mind has a very hefty Exhaustion penalty making the trait unusable. You can check your own statistics in PvP and WvW. Currently what I ( and most likely the majority of mesmer mains ) have discovered is the only functional grandmaster trait mirage has is Infinite Horizon, as the other two are basically unusable.
    Will you add a tiered system like you have done for thieves to make using Elusive mind during a Daze NOT be as punishing vs using it on a stun, like thieves will have with cripple, chill, and immobilize?

    Mesmer
    After watching mesmer builds develop following our last update, we have a few more adjustments for both chronomancers and mirages.
    While we think that Signet of Inspiration's new functionality is working well, it's a little too strong, so we're slightly reducing both the recharge time and the extension of the boon duration. This still leaves it a little on the strong side, but we don't want to remove it entirely. Similarly, the Danger Time trait ended up being too strong; we've been seeing some very high damage numbers coming out of chronomancers who are also bringing support skills.

    I dont understand the need for a danger time nerf, (and from the listed benchmarks on snowcrows, power chrono isn't anywhere near the top of the DPS charts.)
    So I am wondering where the "very high" is coming from...

    While we are on the subject of Chrono. What is it supposed to do?
    You guys keep nerfing its support, wells are impractical to use because of the way the function, and it seems that you are going to begin nerfing power as well?
    What's the idea for chrono?

    Finally, we're slightly reducing the duration of the Mirage Cloak dodge in order to make it more like the normal dodge move. When we first built the mirage specialization, we felt that the dodge window had to be larger than a normal dodge in order to compensate for the fact that the player doesn't move with the dodge. As players have become more accustomed to the specialization, we've found that this advantage is no longer necessary. Coupled with the superspeed that's granted by the other minor trait, mirages can travel significantly farther than a normal dodge while attacking. This change does not affect the window for an ambush attack, which has always been on a separate timer.

    So, the problem that a lot of people found in beta is going to be repeated?
    The problem, if I recall correctly from the pre-launch of PoF complaints about your original iteration, was that it was impossible to move out of AoE's. With this change you are returning the original clunkiness back to Mirage Cloak, while not fixing what the majority of people have been asking for and that is to not dodge while CC'd
    So now we get a mirage cloak that will still be complained about AND feel clunky.
    That isn't the only issue I have with this change.
    The previous nerfs to vigor and jaunt were done because you felt the evasion windows were too high. Now that you are effectively lowering Mirage Cloak will we see some type of reversion done to those traits and skills so that the statement given on Dec. 11, 2018 "We want mirages to excel in longer combat engagements" still holds true?

    Right now, Power mesmer has very little vigor uptime, thus lowering its overall ability to avoid damage to have those longer engagements, and you already nerfed the burst of power. What will be done about that spec in pvp and wvw
    Will you address the issue of Condi burst and/or Scepter?
    Those are things that should have been addressed, yet continue to be ignored.
    Again, we have given feedback on that issue and it continues to be overlooked.

    • Well of Recall: Reduced the recharge time of this skill from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.

    Honestly, if the well continues to only give it's benefits at the end of the channel it will still be clunky and ineffective to use.
    You have a game where you want people Actively playing, yet these wells require the mesmer AND any party member to sit still inside of the well for its full duration ( or watch a timer to jump back into it for the ending channel) to receive the benefit.
    It's unusable in WvW, no one uses it in PvP and it's clunky to use in PvE. This isn't the only well that exhibits this behavior either.
    Why can't these be changed to function like other well skills in the game?

    • Signet of Humility: Reduced the recharge time of this skill from 180 seconds to 120 seconds in PvE only.

    Why not do this in all game modes?

    • Speed of Sand: Superspeed's duration has been reduced to match Mirage Cloak's duration.

    This change is what will hurt the most and I and others are pleading that you keep the Superspeed at least 1s so that MC doesn't feel as bad to use.

    • Imaginary Axes: Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer.

    This was a good change- but scepter- which is now the superior condi 1handed weapon- will just replace this weapon.

    • Ambush Assault: This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer.

    Basically, their is no real reason to run Axe over scepter now, how will you and the team address this?

    • Signet of Inspiration: Lowered the extended durations of boons that this skill grants from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. Lowered the recharge time from 30 seconds to 20 seconds.

    Honestly this signet needs a new functionality, either it will be really good or really bad, and this change just makes it bad.

    • Axes of Symmetry: Reduced this skill's damage in WvW to match the PvP version of this skill. The number of confusion stacks that this applies is now 3 in all game modes.

    Comments above about scepter. It is great that the confusion is getting lowered, but it doesn't really help anything if you leave the other weapon ( scepter) as is

    • Illusionary Ambush: Increased the recharge time of this skill from 20 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW only.

    This is WAY harsh, why not just put it back to 30s like it was pre-PoF launch?

    • Cry of Pain: The number of confusion stacks that this trait allows Cry of Frustration to apply has been decreased from 2 to 1 in all game modes.
    • Ineptitude: The confusion duration of this trait has been reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    Good changes and thank you guys for finally addressing this a little, but as has been mentioned on this forum. The meta build for condi-mirage doesn't use Illusions OR ineptitude, and with the change from Axe to Scepter this does nothing to effectively change the meta or the condi burst that is currently making mirage overbearing to some people.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Overall i think the chrono changes are good. You have instant access to quickness from ToT so we're no longer shackled to Time Warp. Coupled with the buff to moa signet there's now both the option and a benefit to taking it again. I think though that the piecemeal changes to the class are irritating some people, perhaps less frequent but larger scale changes would be a possible approach to this?

    The two condition damage builds that are in the raid meta right now are mirage and renegade. I don't really understand why you'd alter renegade that only really excels on one boss compared to mirage that can do excessive damage on a number of bosses. Almost any nerf to mirage in pvp as things stand in the current meta is welcome and steps have been taken towards that. The same can be said with soulbeast. If they are enough to change the oppresive dominance of these builds and address complaits from the pvp community, I can't comment; I don't have the experience required in SPvP.

    I think the changes to banner are reasonable, warrior now has complete control and no longer has to ask a teammate to move a banner for them. Reduced stats is fair also. Still have a place in the meta but the stats they provided was a bit too much. Winds of disenchantment change an interesting move and will propably mean a resurgence of spellbreaker in WvW.

    I'm happy to see a change to ranger spirits. More interactive gameplay is something people who play druid have been asking for.

    Changes to scrapper look like they could be good and useful in a WvW scenario. I'm excited to get my hands on it.

    The change to scourge if it ends up being a nerf in WvW is a step in the right direction. Still going to end up a crucial part of zerg play but as it stands right now it's way too much. I'm concerned about is the possibility of activating the f5 skill and placing the shade after a delay so the bomb isn't telegraphed. That will cause some problems. The change to reaper utilities doesn't seem to really achieve anything because the damage on them was already next to nothing

    From a mostly raid perspective i'm excited about alot of these changes. Like I said before I really appreciate these notes being released a week early so we can have some time to consider the changes before they hit. More and earlier communication is really appreciated and I hope to see more in the future.

  • Vegeta.2563Vegeta.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    How will Harbinger Shroud work with Soul Barbs, since it's going to be a single cast basically. Is this a nerf to Soul Barbs in this case?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RAZOR.7246 said:

    @spartan.9421 said:
    Tell me how freaking out is going to help with anything. Answer: it won't. Constructive criticism and helpful feedback after the patch is what will help ANET make the right adjustments.

    While freaking out doesn't help anyone, there's no reason why this format of feedback before an actual patch hits can't work. There are a lot of points made on here that are valid. There's no point waiting another 3 months for a change when some feedback can be given now to prevent some of these changes. This kind of open communication with players regarding changes is important for the future of the game so that players aren't left in the dark for months on end. As hard as some on here may find it to believe not all balance decisions are the best thing for the game and the player experience and some players may have something worthwhile to contribute.

    I would say the opposite: How can anyone have valid points without playing a classes' changes in the actual environment with all the other changes from the others classes as well?

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Titan.8215Titan.8215 Member ✭✭

    Could you consider reverting the split of Superior Elements for Weaver to be the same in all game modes please, its hard to cap crit with ele after banners nerf in pve while in other classes are so easy. I dont understand why a class that is fully glass cannon and do the same dmg as others like thief has that bad cc (I mean, you can cc but you lose all your dps doing it while with DE poison you dont, or dh elite trap) and now even cant cap critic. Consider giving elementalist a bit more utilities for pve, like more accessible cc and better crit chance or even some kind of barrier (with dh you have better defenses)

    At least tempest changes are good imo, and overall changes I like them too, but when I read that now and in the future you are going to focus on support tempest it afraid me a bit.

    Please give some love to ele (specially Weaver) in all game modes.

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