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Sorem.9157

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What do we think?


GuardianRighteous Instincts has been an incredibly potent trait since it was reworked to grant a large boost to the player's critical-hit chance. Because of this, it has crowded out other grandmaster options for the radiance build. In this update, we're bringing down the power of this trait to be more in line with other grandmaster traits and to give a little boost to its competition. Furthermore, we are giving a small boost to staff and torch weapons and enhancing Hallowed Ground to help it achieve its purpose: to help allies manage crowd control.


• Symbol of Vengeance: Fixed a bug that caused this skill to function improperly with the Symbolic Avenger and Symbolic Power traits.• True Shot: This skill's range has been increased from 1,200 to 1,500.• Tome of Justice—Chapter 2: Igniting Burst: Fixed a bug that could cause this skill to fail to hit foes at the center of its radius.• Cleansing Flame: Increased this skill's damage per hit by 21%. The final hit of this attack inflicts 2 stacks of burning for 4 seconds.• Hallowed Ground: Increased this skill's radius to 360.• Amplified Wrath: Instead of burning foes that the guardian blocks, this trait now increases the duration of the burning passive effect applied by Virtue of Justice by 20%.• Honorable Staff: This trait now grants 120 concentration, plus an additional 120 concentration while wielding a staff, in addition to reducing staff skill recharge times.• Lesser Smite Condition: The damage of this trait has been reduced by about 40% in PvP only.• Perfect Inscriptions: This trait now applies its shared signet passive effect to the guardian in addition to their allies.• Radiant Fire: Fixed a bug that caused this trait to occasionally fail.• Righteous Instincts: This trait's critical-chance bonus has been reduced from 50% to 25%.

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PvP -

Core Guard is donezo probably. It's main appeal was the ability to run what was essentially berserker with vitality stats due to RI. With the RI nerfs, Marauders should, on average, do more damage than Valkyrie so the entire backbone of the build is pretty much irrelevant now. Once again, they "buff" DH with True Shot but then nerf it with Smiters Boon so nothing will change. People are either going to move to support FB or off the class entirely. We might see more DHs who are Core Guard refugees, but neither spec will be relevant anyways.

I also don't see the point of the TS change. Extra range wasn't necessary - 1200 was already plenty for that skill when you consider DH playstyle. It's not a max range sniper like Deadeye or Sic Em Ranger and I really don't think anyone asked for it over other changes. They really just need to bite the bullet and make Heavy Light baseline which is what people have been asking for, then you can reevaluate and see if there are any further changes necessary, but the range increase of TS isn't going to change how LB performs or how people feel about it.

Finally, I'm glad they didn't nerf Monk's Focus or Meditations. It was fairly certain that Core Guard was going to get nerfed because it dominates newbies and is easy to play. I don't agree with nerfing the spec in general, but decreasing the effects of RI was the best nerf you could make should you decide the class had to be shaved.

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Core guardian in sPvP is dead. This is a significant damage loss.

TS range increase what the fuck is the this supposed to do? Is this supposed to make DH a possible roaming build or something?!

Cleansing flame, cool I guess. Probably rotational for condi builds. Overall does not really matter much.

Hallowed ground aoe increase, who cares. It is not like the aoe is the problem with this skill.

Amplified wrath is a nerf in PvP.

Perfect inscription, still cannot compete with righteous instinct in PvE. Still useless in pvp.

Man, anet has been targeting any possible hint of build diversity and smashing it.

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@"Derm.4932" said:PvP -

Core Guard is donezo probably. It's main appeal was the ability to run what was essentially berserker with vitality stats due to RI. With the RI nerfs, Marauders should, on average, do more damage than Valkyrie so the entire backbone of the build is pretty much irrelevant now. Once again, they "buff" DH with True Shot but then nerf it with Smiters Boon so nothing will change. People are either going to move to support FB or off the class entirely. We might see more DHs who are Core Guard refugees, but neither spec will be relevant anyways.

I also don't see the point of the TS change. Extra range wasn't necessary - 1200 was already plenty for that skill when you consider DH playstyle. It's not a max range sniper like Deadeye or Sic Em Ranger and I really don't think anyone asked for it over other changes. They really just need to bite the bullet and make Heavy Light baseline which is what people have been asking for, then you can reevaluate and see if there are any further changes necessary, but the range increase of TS isn't going to change how LB performs or how people feel about it.

Finally, I'm glad they didn't nerf Monk's Focus or Meditations. It was fairly certain that Core Guard was going to get nerfed because it dominates newbies and is easy to play. I don't agree with nerfing the spec in general, but decreasing the effects of RI was the best nerf you could make should you decide the class had to be shaved.

I think Core Guard can survive the RI nerf but Harrier Firebrand probably won't. Core Guardian though was in a tough spot where it needed it skill floor raised, instead of straight up nerfed, since most of its mechanics affects other builds. You can't nerf meditations without nerfing whatever is left of DH in PvP so they went for RI and nerfed most builds that use it for crit chance. Honestly, i think a more complex change that would make it harder to play would be better, such as having to target binding blades, not allowing you to use JI through channeled abilities or something.

I might be biased, since i main Harrier FB and the RI nerf will really hit it hard, considering it only has 4% base crit chance. Burning Guardian might have a harder time, considering the Amplified Wrath harsh nerf for PvP aswell.

As for the DH changes, yeah, they made no sense.

In general, it is a hard hit on build diversity, if you ask me.

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Core guard in PvP can still run marauder and be successful. RI was always way to OP of a trait, people just got accustomed to it. In reality, a profession that's based around active defenses never should've had a build where it can have 20k HP and near guarantee critical strikes. It was either that or change to valkyrie set which is unrealistic. Or change to active defenses that would even more hurt the class overall. Of all possible options, this was the best one. And similar changes should be done to other professions that have similar traits.

Cleansing flame is a great change and will most likely influence dps of condi builds since it addresses issues that the skill had all this time - no condi application and way to low dps for its channel time. This change addresses it in a good way.Amplified wrath is IMO is a positive change in design philosophy. Defensive gameplay shouldn't apply offensive effects via traits. On guardian this trait basically meant passive condi application. Which is bad design philosophy.Honorable Staff. I dont think that buff to concentration is significant enough to take this trait over its alternative, most noteably Pure of Heart.Lesser Smite Condition. Again, another good change. Being able to kill someone with a healing skill (and we all did it most likely at one point) is again not a great design philosophy.True Shot. Meh.Hallowed Ground. I am in favour of any change that increases radius of supportive skills since they create a "breathing space" for PUGs. But other than that, this isn't something awe worthy.Perfect Inscriptions. Very reasonable effect that should've been here from the start.

Overall, I would say these were pleasant changes, contributing to more healthy game design.

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@"kasoki.5180" said:Core guard in PvP can still run marauder and be successful. RI was always way to OP of a trait, people just got accustomed to it. In reality, a profession that's based around active defenses never should've had a build where it can have 20k HP and near guarantee critical strikes. It was either that or change to valkyrie set which is unrealistic. Or change to active defenses that would even more hurt the class overall. Of all possible options, this was the best one. And similar changes should be done to other professions that have similar traits.

Cleansing flame is a great change and will most likely influence dps of condi builds since it addresses issues that the skill had all this time - no condi application and way to low dps for its channel time. This change addresses it in a good way.Amplified wrath is IMO is a positive change in design philosophy. Defensive gameplay shouldn't apply offensive effects via traits. On guardian this trait basically meant passive condi application. Which is bad design philosophy.Honorable Staff. I dont think that buff to concentration is significant enough to take this trait over its alternative, most noteably Pure of Heart.Lesser Smite Condition. Again, another good change. Being able to kill someone with a healing skill (and we all did it most likely at one point) is again not a great design philosophy.True Shot. Meh.Hallowed Ground. I am in favour of any change that increases radius of supportive skills since they create a "breathing space" for PUGs. But other than that, this isn't something awe worthy.Perfect Inscriptions. Very reasonable effect that should've been here from the start.

Overall, I would say these were pleasant changes, contributing to more healthy game design.

The real deal here is that Core Guardian was NOT OP in PvP. It was balanced at best. Yes, nerfing this would force the build to run Marauder. Yes it can still work it is not gonna be butchered, but it is gonna change a build that was balanced to subpar. Running a Spellbreaker or a Holosmith or a Ranger would be better for the same role.

The problem is that Core Guardian is very one dimentional and that will not carry you through higher rating games. You need the complexity. You can't simply look at RI and say it is OP, you need to look at the build or the profession as a whole and when you do, you'll realize that core guardian is very limited.

You mentioned active defenses. What active defenses Core Guardians have other than utilities that heal and one hit deniers such as blocks and blinds that most people use for retaliation anyway? Maybe Renewed Focus. Most active defenses on core guardian are sacrificed for damage in order to provide retaliation, extra damage or mobility and the real deal was making sure you'd use them in proper situations to take advantage of both the defensive and offensive aspects. That is most of the skill involved in being a successful Core Guardian.

These changes do not enhance that aspect, but instead simply nerf an ok spec. A newbie killer spec. Wanna change that? Raise the skill floor, not straight up nerf.

That is not even the main problem.

You are looking JUST at core guardian. It will probably live (crippled) through the nerf anyway. Radiance Firebrand and many guardian variation builds got hit because of this change. That is not smart design. In fact, it is the very opposite. They targetted a straight nerf to core guardian (which itself wasn't a smart idea to being with) and ended up butchering several other builds while core guardian still survives the patch, though weaker.

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@"kasoki.5180" said:Core guard in PvP can still run marauder and be successful. RI was always way to OP of a trait, people just got accustomed to it. In reality, a profession that's based around active defenses never should've had a build where it can have 20k HP and near guarantee critical strikes. It was either that or change to valkyrie set which is unrealistic. Or change to active defenses that would even more hurt the class overall. Of all possible options, this was the best one. And similar changes should be done to other professions that have similar traits.

Cleansing flame is a great change and will most likely influence dps of condi builds since it addresses issues that the skill had all this time - no condi application and way to low dps for its channel time. This change addresses it in a good way.Amplified wrath is IMO is a positive change in design philosophy. Defensive gameplay shouldn't apply offensive effects via traits. On guardian this trait basically meant passive condi application. Which is bad design philosophy.Honorable Staff. I dont think that buff to concentration is significant enough to take this trait over its alternative, most noteably Pure of Heart.Lesser Smite Condition. Again, another good change. Being able to kill someone with a healing skill (and we all did it most likely at one point) is again not a great design philosophy.True Shot. Meh.Hallowed Ground. I am in favour of any change that increases radius of supportive skills since they create a "breathing space" for PUGs. But other than that, this isn't something awe worthy.Perfect Inscriptions. Very reasonable effect that should've been here from the start.

Overall, I would say these were pleasant changes, contributing to more healthy game design.

Absolutely agree with this assessment. Even though I wasn't vocal about Lesser smite condi, I think the nerf to it and to RI were deserved.

I'll add that the torch buff in particular might make scepter/torch a viable power weapon combo and alternative choice for longbow DH in pvp. This is a change I've been hoping they would implement for a very long time since torch 5 was such a terrible skill in all 3 game modes.

Also.... Anet pls!!!! Just make the knockback on deflecting shot baseline already! The weapon just does not feel complete without that knockback and that limits a longbow DH in competitive game modes to one GM trait and generally limits them to medi-trapper or something similar.

Overall good changes :)

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I'll add that the torch buff in particular might make scepter/torch a viable power weapon combo and alternative choice for longbow DH in pvp. This is a change I've been hoping they would implement for a very long time since torch 5 was such a terrible skill in all 3 game modes.

Torch might be viable if Torch 4 didn't bug out and miss a quarter of the time

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@Sorem.9157 said:

The real deal here is that Core Guardian was NOT OP in PvP. It was balanced at best. Yes, nerfing this would force the build to run Marauder. Yes it can still work it is not gonna be butchered, but it is gonna change a build that was balanced to subpar. Running a Spellbreaker or a Holosmith or a Ranger would be better for the same role.

Core radiance guardian is probably one of the classes where most players will agree that ratio of effort to output is disproportionate. It takes zero effort to have great output, The fact that there are professions that are also strong, the fact that good players know how to counterplay the build does not change this.

@Sorem.9157 said:The problem is that Core Guardian is very one dimentional and that will not carry you through higher rating games. You need the complexity. You can't simply look at RI and say it is OP, you need to look at the build or the profession as a whole and when you do, you'll realize that core guardian is very limited.

I agree. And way to solve this is to add new possibilities to guardian, not necessarily keep a broken one.

@Sorem.9157 said:You mentioned active defenses. What active defenses Core Guardians have other than utilities that heal and one hit deniers such as blocks and blinds that most people use for retaliation anyway? Maybe Renewed Focus. Most active defenses on core guardian are sacrificed for damage in order to provide retaliation, extra damage or mobility and the real deal was making sure you'd use them in proper situations to take advantage of both the defensive and offensive aspects. That is most of the skill involved in being a successful Core Guardian.

Core guardian will have three meditations, possible elite Renewed focus, Virtues F2 and F3, Focus#5. There are also guardians that run with some combination of mace and/or shield. Valor grants you aegis when you drop to 50% HP. Blind on F1 etc etc... There is abundance of defense on guardian, most of which isn't used for retaliation upkeep.

@Sorem.9157 said:These changes do not enhance that aspect, but instead simply nerf an ok spec. A newbie killer spec. Wanna change that? Raise the skill floor, not straight up nerf.

There is no "raising the skill floor" for a profession that can be semi bunker and give itself 80% crit chance within seconds and teleporting mid casting. That's the cheese that prevents it to be a skill oriented class in the first place. Removing traits like RI is step one of changing the game into a game where raising a skill floor is even a thing for certain professions.

@Sorem.9157 said:You are looking JUST at core guardian. It will probably live (crippled) through the nerf anyway. Radiance Firebrand and many guardian variation builds got hit because of this change. That is not smart design. In fact, it is the very opposite. They targetted a straight nerf to core guardian (which itself wasn't a smart idea to being with) and ended up butchering several other builds while core guardian still survives the patch, though weaker.

Even though I agree on radiance firebrand, its a weird argument since its a build that actually only exist because of the trait, literally proving the point why traits like these are bad for the game.

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@kasoki.5180 there is a fundamental lack of depth on your comments. I am not argueing that if you look at RI isolated it isn't a strong trait, but you need to look at context. The way Guardian is designed right now, it needs RI to perform well in PvP.

Yes, traits like RI can be bad for the game, but you can't simply do a decisive nerf like they did without redistributing the strengths of the trait. You can't do step one remove RI then step 2 add something else and step 3 add something else and then it is fine when steps are potentially 4 months appart.

Guardian is not overperforming as it currently is. Core Guardian has a low skill floor and THAT is the issue (the fact that it is also very one dimensional too but, i won't argue that here, for the sake of time). Changing the way of some funcionalities is what is important here. A good simple idea would be to change the way retaliation is distributed. Core Guardian maybe has too much of it. Throw it somewhere else maybe. Make Core Guardians think twice before activating defensive cooldowns for damage. Don't allow players to cast JI midspells but make something hit harder. Do things that will make it harder to play in order to tackle the real problem they should be addressing: the low skill floor. There is plenty you can do, you just gotta be more creative.

As you mentioned, some builds only exist because of the trait and nerfing it like that will do nothing but lower build diversity due to collateral damage. There is a fundamental design problem with Guardian that needs to be addressed BEFORE removing the foundations where it is built on. Otherwise more and more people will migrate from the spec or, worse, from the game.

We don't want that in a time like this.

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The profession is way to much slave to that trait. Even though I agree that they should've introduced more consequential changes in a patch where they nerf the trait, nerfing this trait is absolutely first step in any change to guardian because the entire core profession is completely based around this trait. This trait IS the fundamental design problem because it functions as a singularity for power builds. Its big part of the reason why core guardian is like a one skill pony low skill profession.

You keep saying that guard is low skill and one dimensional profession. I completely agree with you. Its just that I think this trait is the main culprit behind that. It implements a play style that is unhealthy for the game and prevents players from picking an alternative simply because of how strong it is.

I'm not sure what you have in mind when you say that they should've redistributed the strenght of the trait and how would it look without introducing new types of powercreep.

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@Sorem.9157 said:@"kasoki.5180" there is a fundamental lack of depth on your comments. I am not argueing that if you look at RI isolated it isn't a strong trait, but you need to look at context. The way Guardian is designed right now, it needs RI to perform well in PvP.

Yes, traits like RI can be bad for the game, but you can't simply do a decisive nerf like they did without redistributing the strengths of the trait. You can't do step one remove RI then step 2 add something else and step 3 add something else and then it is fine when steps are potentially 4 months appart.

Guardian is not overperforming as it currently is. Core Guardian has a low skill floor and THAT is the issue (the fact that it is also very one dimensional too but, i won't argue that here, for the sake of time). Changing the way of some funcionalities is what is important here. A good simple idea would be to change the way retaliation is distributed. Core Guardian maybe has too much of it. Throw it somewhere else maybe. Make Core Guardians think twice before activating defensive cooldowns for damage. Don't allow players to cast JI midspells but make something hit harder. Do things that will make it harder to play in order to tackle the real problem they should be addressing: the low skill floor. There is plenty you can do, you just gotta be more creative.

As you mentioned, some builds only exist because of the trait and nerfing it like that will do nothing but lower build diversity due to collateral damage. There is a fundamental design problem with Guardian that needs to be addressed BEFORE removing the foundations where it is built on. Otherwise more and more people will migrate from the spec or, worse, from the game.

We don't want that in a time like this.

I agree with you on your points, There wasn't a need for the Righteous Instincts nerf, and they power guardian to give us more retaliation in places.On its own Righteous Instincts allows is for a power based guardian/Base to activate a crit which is needed in wvw/pvp considering how low HP base it has, Guardian NEED to kill quickly, futhermore with power creep and unblockables that many professions have now, it can be steamrolled easily since stuff goes thru aegis. Power Guardian is right now, very one dimensional and can easily be countered.This nerf is going to make people turn away from guardian. Without Power guard in general, Guardian will become is a support class. Then no one will want to use because the only damaging option is bad and it'll be easier and more effective to use something else. It'll only be know for support class, Remember how before Ranger was before PoF, only know as the "support" if you on a ranger you were healing or some sort of support.

Secondly it's made DH a little harder to play. Now that you don't have a 100% crit in raids anymore, which it needed, It would not be so bad if gave Dragonhunter love, but they've pretty much neglected Dragonhunter for 2 years (could be 3 at this point). The VERY odd tweak to literally 1 move or triat once every 6-8 months isn't keeping it relvant. I am not joking you can look in the update logs. 1500 range on true shot... What about the rest of the longbow? Doesn't the rest of it get extended range like ranger's longbow? What getting rid of that pause for the True shot, because it feels awkward. Big game hunter got slight damage buff, but what we really needed is Dull senses and Heavy light to be reworked, they're rather useless traits needing of an overhaul or replacing.Dragonhunter NEEDS retaliation with the elite spec itself NOT FROM ANY BASE LINE TRAITS. They made Righteous Instincts right before Path of fire so Dragonhunter could use it and it's been within the meta build for Dragonhunter since then, BUT they've not updated Dragonhunter at all for this change. Retaliation but we only have two ways of getting it, Greatsword 4 or heal skill. There is "Stand your ground" as well but As a DPS we should not have to run that.They need to get rid of heavy light trait and give use a damage option or ways to get more retaliation.

They've been focusing WAY too much time on Base guardian and Firebrand.It feels like they are ignoring Dragonhunter on purpose, only Drip feeding tweaks and fixes to it. I feel like they're trying to push Base guardian out relvance and move all Guardian's into playing Firebrands. All that will do is Force people to use another class and Dragonhunter will become more dead than it already is.

It's not viable in WvW, Dragonhunter has kinda become a meme to many people. Which is kinda sad, and i feel like I am not really help my team with what i want to play.

I shouldn't feel bad for my main class but looking at this update it makes feel like its near the end for dragonhunter and base guardian in general, Tempest and Scrapper got MAJOR buffs and reworks. Both are HoT specs, a little while back Herald got revamped too. So uh... When is it going to be Dragonhunter's time for a little revamp because there is a quite a bit to change.

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I'm alright with these changes. I do wish the RI change had been to 33% instead of 25%.Also I wouldn't have minded if they gave us some more sustained damage in the form of longer duration Might/Retaliation or Hammer damage buffs as they reduce the burstiness provided by RI. This is a big nerf for the hammer build while being a moderate nerf to the GS variant. Not being able to reliably crit with Mighty/Glacial Blow drops the builds viability unless you go Marauder which is then a sustain nerf. For the GS variant I'm not even seeing a real reason to drop Valkyrie. It's around a 10-15% total damage nerf which isn't too bad.Can't really estimate what the effects of this nerf will be for other builds as I haven't really played them. Or even looked at them much.Lesser Smite Condition nerf is great, there is nothing lesser about it currently. In fact it hits harder than the utility does.Torch buff sounds good but I'm wondering why they didn't do this years ago?Staff change is meh, still not a competitor for Pure of Heart.True Shot 1500 range? Uhm, sure. Now give it a small projectile speed increase and make Heavy Light baseline, and we may start seeing DH back in the (PvP) game.

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@crazyhusky.2985 said:There wasn't a need for the Righteous Instincts nerf, and they power guardian to give us more retaliation in places.

There was a need. The problem people should be having is not getting anything in return.

Secondly it's made DH a little harder to play. Now that you don't have a 100% crit in raids anymore, which it needed,

I don't see how this would even happen. You are easily overcapping crit chance currently by about 140% with party buffs and it'll be just 115% after the patch.Missing the retal duration is an entirely different issue. Which should be fixed, this is true.The way they are messing with Chrono is an indirect nerf to DH that's much more influential than this change to RI.

They need to get rid of heavy light trait and give use a damage option or ways to get more retaliation.

Heavy Light needs to be made baseline for LB3. Big Game Hunter is already the DPS trait. I don't see how adding a competing DPS or a retal trait does anything for DH.

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@Sorem.9157 said:Because of this, it has crowded out other grandmaster options for the radiance build. In this update, we're bringing down the power of this trait to be more in line >with other grandmaster traits and to give a little boost to its competition.

As someone who prefers Core Guard in PvE group content (so I can run Virtues trait line) I can appreciate that they reworked the other 2 GM traits, but they still cannot hold a candle to +25% Crit chance when retaliation is up.

So after the patch I'll have to swap out my Sigil of Air for Accuracy, and that with Spotter and burning on the target my crit chance will hit 95% with retaliation up, which I can live with in a T4 fractal, and anywhere else it doesn't matter. I'm also playing Quickbrand more and more in T4s so raw damage output isn't really my major concern these days.

But this sounds to me like the issue was Core Guard in PvP, so that leaves me wondering why they didn't just split it between modes.

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Not sure how to raise skillcap/floor of dps guard in PvP; maybe some changes like

  • Move damage from easy-to-hit, instant skills/procs to weapon skills.
  • Make retaliation stronger but shorter duration to make it more active and scary to hit a guardian with it instead of passive annoying damage.
  • Maybe make monk's focus heal more depending on how effective you are with your meditiations (how many boons you convert for example)?

Problem is a roamer these days must have extreme mobility and preferably unblockable attacks and/or boonstrip in order to compete with thief/rev.

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The problem that they have with RI is that it was tied to Retaliation which isn't that hard to keep up most of the time if not 100% of the time , there alot of classes that gain 100% or at least a 50% bonus but they are also gated so to speak behind something that prevents them from being up and available at all times. Warriors: Burst Precision, Ranger:Precise Strike, Thief: Hidden Killer, and even the Necromancer:Decimate Defenses. Now what they could have done is either brought the value down to 33% or placed an Internal Cool Down on its bonus after each Critical or added another gating requirement like possible tied one of the passive virtues triggering. The problem with RI core guardian pushing most alternative builds out is simply that they have so overtuned alot of other builds and they are not that viable and the overtuning comes down to how the Guardian was first designed which is as low mobility, low health, high defensive, high close range damage but as the game has change this heavy bunker type build has become something they seem to want to move away from but they can't seem to determine how to rebuild or redefine the class without running into issues of being to powerful in certain types of game play but very weak in others and our defensive strength isn't remotely the same as it was from when the game was first released. Please bear in mind I'm not saying that the class isn't playable at all but I am saying is that we seem to be in recurring pattern of lopsided small buffs followed by some rather heavier nerfs and until they come to a decision on how to address the design conflict these will probably continue. Granted this just my personal opinion.

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@crazyhusky.2985 said:

1500 range on true shot... What about the rest of the longbow? Doesn't the rest of it get extended range like ranger's longbow? What getting rid of that pause for the True shot, because it feels awkward. Big game hunter got slight damage buff, but what we really needed is Dull senses and Heavy light to be reworked, they're rather useless traits needing of an overhaul or replacing.

I agree that some of the LB skills should be 1500 range if they're taking it that direction with trueshot. Ranger LB has 1500 range on every one of their skills except the knockback shot on LB 4, but their effective range is around 1700-1800 with auto attack and rapid fire due to the range buffer which DH doesn't get on anything except auto attack.

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While in principal I agree with you on the change for both Amplified Wrath and Smiter's Boon with regard to both a defensive skill and healing skill being turned into a offensive effect being contrary to improved game play, there removal/change failed to fill the void of a viable trait commensurate with where were and it is also ignoring other skills that are doing the exact same thing at least with regard to the defensive aspect of it such as Warrior's Reckless Dodge which does damage to up to 5 targets is unblockable and I believe can still critical all off a defensive dodge roll, or you have the Engineer's Evasive Powder Keg which pretty much the same as the Warrior's except it isn't unblockable. What I'm pointing out is there seems to be a selective targeting of some of these changes with regard skills or traits that are viewed as passive effects , bonuses or damage I'm not saying this being done with intent I just pointing out that it is rather uneven on its implementation and in there removal or modification has often left us with void or a rather underwhelming replacement(and I'm not only speaking of the Guardian here many other classes have been hit with this). I do understand that this is a work in progress I'm just hoping that we see a little more creative rebalancing versus the heavy nerfs

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@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:The problem that they have with RI is that it was tied to Retaliation which isn't that hard to keep up most of the time if not 100% of the time , [...] The problem with RI >core guardian pushing most alternative builds out [...]

What alternate builds would those be? If you play DPS Power Guardian in PvE you have roughly two options for competitive DPS:1- Dragonhunter, which would take RI, and has no reason to take either of the other 2 GM traits2- Core Guard (Zeal/Radiance/Virtues) which would also take RI, and has no reason to take either of the 2 GM traits.

You can add a 3rd if we're talking Fractals with Quickbrand Hybrid, which also would take RI, though some could opt for Perfect Inscriptions - I don't know the math on that one.

So the issue isn't that RI is too good, it's that the other 2 GM traits are comparatively useless to a Power DPS build.

A Condi FB for example would never take RI, right? A support FB/Guard would never take RI.

An OP trait would be something that every build would take, and RI certainly doesn't meet that description.

TLDR: RI as a trait didn't limit alternative builds, the absence of other worthwhile GM traits in that traitline did.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:The problem that they have with RI is that it was tied to Retaliation which isn't that hard to keep up most of the time if not 100% of the time , [...] The problem with RI >core guardian pushing most alternative builds out [...

TLDR: RI as a trait didn't limit alternative builds, the absence of other worthwhile GM traits in that traitline did.

And we are still facing a lack of any real alternative in GM traits, my apologies if I was less than clear on my point (I kind of rambling there) . I looking back on the earlier patch notes and the last patch that gave the Guardian a major buff was back when we got our revamped Staff all of the rest have been more text correction , nerf, bug fix or a minor buff at best

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