Mesmer Patch-Preview - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Mesmer Patch-Preview

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Comments

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I agree with much of what the others are saying. Here are my suggestions:

    • Keep 1s super speed on Mirage Cloak to ensure that mirage doesn't lose mobility compared to the standard dodge effect.

    • Increase Illusionary Ambush cooldown to 30s (not 35s).

    • Give back the 3rd ammo count on jaunt.

    • Increase the speed or reduce the duration of the axe 2 animation slightly to compensate for the loss of evade time on MC.

    • Find a better way to handle Elusive Mind. Exhaustion makes this trait worthless.

    In a similar vein, taking into account new 0.75s MC, I would like to see:

    Speed of Sand - keep 1s for mobility (or add some unique feature to mirage cloak to allow same forward movement speed in all directions)

    Nomad's Endurance/Critical Infusion - restore previous vigour durations.

    Illusionary Ambush - 30s (on par with blink and SoM)

    Jaunt - 20s cooldown per charge (but keep at 2 charges in pvp/wvw)

    Axe 2 - add 0.5s evade frame to the initial part of the animation (end of animation is vulnerable to damage/interrupt)

    Axe 3 - remove evade frame to compensate for giving to axe 2 (more in line with Mirage Advance which doesn't have an evade frame)

    Elusive Mind - just temporarily disable the stunbreak portion entirely until you think of a new solution for this trait. Leave it as only one condi cleanse per dodge so it is at least useable and not shooting yourself in the foot... Surely this can be done before Tuesday - just disable/turn off the stunbreak part? I'd rather have half a trait that works than a whole trait that hurts.


    I believe none of those are excessive/asking a lot, and from my layman perspective should be possible to make happen very quickly - even before the patch drops as there are still a few days (minus weekend).

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    Not a great patch for Mesmers. :s Happy about the Engineer stuff, though.

    Not gonna talk about SoI and related stuff. Tired of it. But some points that annoyed me and I disagree with:

    • MC and SoS - Okay defense-wise. But find it to be a no-no to have an elite class-mechanic to be worse than baseline doge (mobility).
    • Danger Time - Probably number-wise in line with the nerfed RI (Guardian) but harder to maintain solo. Just split it (PvE/PvP).
    • Cry of Pain - Make it a Major already (s. Shatter Storm). It is an aweful Minor for too many builds which could utilize Illusions.
  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    Just shows that the balance team doesn't have a clue with mesmer. Stuff like this is why I no longer have fun playing the class. Instead of addressing any root balance issues, they just continuously nerf over and over, but since those root issues are never addressed, the nerfs are never enough

    There are plenty of skilled players in WvW running core Mesmer and Chronomancer. Is Mirage required for you to have fun with Mesmer?

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I agree with much of what the others are saying. Here are my suggestions:

    • Keep 1s super speed on Mirage Cloak to ensure that mirage doesn't lose mobility compared to the standard dodge effect.

    • Increase Illusionary Ambush cooldown to 30s (not 35s).

    • Give back the 3rd ammo count on jaunt.

    • Increase the speed or reduce the duration of the axe 2 animation slightly to compensate for the loss of evade time on MC.

    • Find a better way to handle Elusive Mind. Exhaustion makes this trait worthless.

    In a similar vein, taking into account new 0.75s MC, I would like to see:

    Speed of Sand - keep 1s for mobility (or add some unique feature to mirage cloak to allow same forward movement speed in all directions)

    Nomad's Endurance/Critical Infusion - restore previous vigour durations.

    Illusionary Ambush - 30s (on par with blink and SoM)

    Jaunt - 20s cooldown per charge (but keep at 2 charges in pvp/wvw)

    Axe 2 - rework?
    Axe 3 -return power damage plx?
    Mirror trait - while mirage elite equipped 5s icd.
    Scepter 2 cd increased to 8s. Scepter 3 damage per strike decreased by 15% . Ideally - REWORK
    !IMPORTANT! Every ambush cast time should be 0.7s because unable to cover your own ambush (even more its not even possible because of internet lag/delay).
    Elusive Mind - just temporarily disable the stunbreak portion entirely until you think of a new solution for this trait. Leave it as only one condi cleanse per dodge so it is at least useable and not shooting yourself in the foot... Surely this can be done before Tuesday - just disable/turn off the stunbreak part? I'd rather have half a trait that works than a whole trait that hurts.


    I believe none of those are excessive/asking a lot, and from my layman perspective should be possible to make happen very quickly - even before the patch drops as there are still a few days (minus weekend).

    FTFY .Dont thank me ;)

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    Just shows that the balance team doesn't have a clue with mesmer. Stuff like this is why I no longer have fun playing the class. Instead of addressing any root balance issues, they just continuously nerf over and over, but since those root issues are never addressed, the nerfs are never enough

    There are plenty of skilled players in WvW running core Mesmer and Chronomancer. Is Mirage required for you to have fun with Mesmer?

    I'm not fond of a double posts... But kitten ?
    Yesterday 3 hours straight was on wvw. Unkillable soulbeasts 1vs5 unhindered running away ezpz half of the map while maintain permastab and truckload of kitten boons.
    Not even single core mesmer or chrono . A bit of condi mesmers (that free to kill and unable to disengage even from 1x2) and 1-2 power mesmers that sword ambush away for their lives . Way more permastealth DE and pewpew sick em SLB.
    Where the ------ are these CORE mesmers?Chronomancers

    Im wondering where the core are as well.
    Only time I see core or chrono when I'm roaming is when they are with a group of 7+.
    Are you roaming in off hours? Cause prime time core and chrono solo roaming is 0 from my experience.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    Just shows that the balance team doesn't have a clue with mesmer. Stuff like this is why I no longer have fun playing the class. Instead of addressing any root balance issues, they just continuously nerf over and over, but since those root issues are never addressed, the nerfs are never enough

    There are plenty of skilled players in WvW running core Mesmer and Chronomancer. Is Mirage required for you to have fun with Mesmer?

    I'm not fond of a double posts... But kitten ?
    Yesterday 3 hours straight was on wvw. Unkillable soulbeasts 1vs5 unhindered running away ezpz half of the map while maintain permastab and truckload of kitten boons.
    Not even single core mesmer or chrono . A bit of condi mesmers (that free to kill and unable to disengage even from 1x2) and 1-2 power mesmers that sword ambush away for their lives . Way more permastealth DE and pewpew sick em SLB.
    Where the fok are these CORE mesmers?Chronomancers ?

    Plenty of people can play them, and have played them, and continue to play them. They're not all on the same server, or playing at the same time. Same with things like Scrapper, Core Ranger, Core Ele, Tempest, DH, Berserker, Reaper, Core Necro. I see players performing very well on all of those - this does not mean I see teems of them flooding the borderlands. They have practice and are skilled and win against equally skilled opponents. In fact, the only thing I don't see any skilled players roaming on is core Engi. The reason you don't see the non-meta builds as often as things like Perma Stealth DE, Soulbeast, Holo, and Mirage is because those things are incredibly easy to perform well with. Mirage was never a class that had a remotely high skill floor - the people who are actually skilled will without a doubt continue to perform very well on Mirage regardless of the skill floor raising a bit.

    I'm sorry you incorrectly perceived the message in my post?

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    Now that they have broken most of every pof spec for competitive game play spirit weapons are now the meta against mesmers.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I agree with much of what the others are saying. Here are my suggestions:

    • Keep 1s super speed on Mirage Cloak to ensure that mirage doesn't lose mobility compared to the standard dodge effect.

    • Increase Illusionary Ambush cooldown to 30s (not 35s).

    • Give back the 3rd ammo count on jaunt.

    • Increase the speed or reduce the duration of the axe 2 animation slightly to compensate for the loss of evade time on MC.

    • Find a better way to handle Elusive Mind. Exhaustion makes this trait worthless.

    In a similar vein, taking into account new 0.75s MC, I would like to see:

    Speed of Sand - keep 1s for mobility (or add some unique feature to mirage cloak to allow same forward movement speed in all directions)

    Nomad's Endurance/Critical Infusion - restore previous vigour durations.

    Illusionary Ambush - 30s (on par with blink and SoM)

    Jaunt - 20s cooldown per charge (but keep at 2 charges in pvp/wvw)


    Axe 2 - rework? // hmm I like axe 2 animation as it is, so prefer not to change how it works aside from quality of life adjustments as mentioned - eg moving evade frame from axe 3 to axe 2 with reduced duration (0.5s down from 0.75s).
    Axe 3 -return power damage plx? // yeah this would be good, it's already laughable how easily it can be dodged or avoided.
    Mirror trait - while mirage elite equipped 5s icd. // would prefer a different solution - not a fan of simply increasing the ICD. Rather shave the mirror duration slightly instead of increased icd, or one of the different proposed solutions that have been floating around. Also given mirage cloak reduction to 0.75s I don't think it's going to be as big a deal as if used on core or chrono dodge, so maybe this should be left alone until further observation following mirage cloak nerf.
    Scepter 2 cd increased to 8s. Scepter 3 damage per strike decreased by 15% . Ideally - REWORK // yeah for sure, both of these skills are stupid and powercrept while scepter still remains a clunky weapon... happy for any changes here.
    !IMPORTANT! Every ambush cast time should be 0.7s because unable to cover your own ambush (even more its not even possible because of internet lag/delay). // _ hell yes, especially Staff ambush which is going to be painful following MC duration reduction. That stuff needs to cast faster._

    Elusive Mind - just temporarily disable the stunbreak portion entirely until you think of a new solution for this trait. Leave it as only one condi cleanse per dodge so it is at least useable and not shooting yourself in the foot... Surely this can be done before Tuesday - just disable/turn off the stunbreak part? I'd rather have half a trait that works than a whole trait that hurts.


    I believe none of those are excessive/asking a lot, and from my layman perspective should be possible to make happen very quickly - even before the patch drops as there are still a few days (minus weekend).

    FTFY .Dont thank me ;)

    Thanks anyway. :) Put some responses in there, some I agree, some I don't. But whatever the case it's clear more stuff is needed, hopefully some other changes can make it into this patch rather than waiting another 3+ months for anything else... :/ I seriously hope the restructuring at Anet will allow for more frequent balance releases from now on.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Plenty of people can play them, and have played them, and continue to play them.

    This is true. The only problem is that unlike mirage, they dont really compete with superior PoF generation roaming specs (holos, spellbreakers, soulbeasts, dead... wait, its still daredevils lol, other mirages etc). I dont even see a vanilla mesmer as a threat when roaming on my mirage. Sometimes they get lucky, sometimes they got skills but no... there's a reason most people run PoF specs.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2019

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    Just shows that the balance team doesn't have a clue with mesmer. Stuff like this is why I no longer have fun playing the class. Instead of addressing any root balance issues, they just continuously nerf over and over, but since those root issues are never addressed, the nerfs are never enough

    There are plenty of skilled players in WvW running core Mesmer and Chronomancer. Is Mirage required for you to have fun with Mesmer?

    I'm not fond of a double posts... But kitten ?
    Yesterday 3 hours straight was on wvw. Unkillable soulbeasts 1vs5 unhindered running away ezpz half of the map while maintain permastab and truckload of kitten boons.
    Not even single core mesmer or chrono . A bit of condi mesmers (that free to kill and unable to disengage even from 1x2) and 1-2 power mesmers that sword ambush away for their lives . Way more permastealth DE and pewpew sick em SLB.
    Where the fok are these CORE mesmers?Chronomancers ?

    Plenty of people can play them, and have played them, and continue to play them. They're not all on the same server, or playing at the same time. Same with things like Scrapper, Core Ranger, Core Ele, Tempest, DH, Berserker, Reaper, Core Necro. I see players performing very well on all of those - this does not mean I see teems of them flooding the borderlands. They have practice and are skilled and win against equally skilled opponents. In fact, the only thing I don't see any skilled players roaming on is core Engi. The reason you don't see the non-meta builds as often as things like Perma Stealth DE, Soulbeast, Holo, and Mirage is because those things are incredibly easy to perform well with. Mirage was never a class that had a remotely high skill floor - the people who are actually skilled will without a doubt continue to perform very well on Mirage regardless of the skill floor raising a bit.

    I'm sorry you incorrectly perceived the message in my post?

    No , you didnt understand his post . (I dont even need to explain it ,just read it again?)
    I'm making emphasis on CORE mesmer which is simply inferior to chrono/mirage in every possible way, there is not even single reason to play core instead of mirage/chrono. 'non' meta builds are underperforming compared to other class/specs/builds = not played
    People can have fun with w/e they want but when anet endlessly nerf chrono and make it unfun and frustrating to play AND make renegade/fb to be way more efficent, no wonder most mesmers just quit

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    At this point they should just change EM so that it turns MC into a short range blink in the direction you dodge that enables an ambush attack. Done.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In light of base mirage cloak revert to 0.75s, regarding Elusive Mind - how about the following change:

    • remove stunbreak entirely
    • replace with "increase mirage cloak duration from all sources by 33%"

    That could provide a meaningful choice at least between IH and EM (can deal with DC separately) in that IH would have shorter cloak but share with illusions (plus ambush) and EM would have longer cloak but selfish on player (plus condi cleanse).

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    In light of base mirage cloak revert to 0.75s, regarding Elusive Mind - how about the following change:

    • remove stunbreak entirely
    • replace with "increase mirage cloak duration from all sources by 33%"

    That could provide a meaningful choice at least between IH and EM (can deal with DC separately) in that IH would have shorter cloak but share with illusions (plus ambush) and EM would have longer cloak but selfish on player (plus condi cleanse).

    I don't like that because timing attacks after dodges would be inconsistent and very annoying

    // Yanim

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    In light of base mirage cloak revert to 0.75s, regarding Elusive Mind - how about the following change:

    • remove stunbreak entirely
    • replace with "increase mirage cloak duration from all sources by 33%"

    That could provide a meaningful choice at least between IH and EM (can deal with DC separately) in that IH would have shorter cloak but share with illusions (plus ambush) and EM would have longer cloak but selfish on player (plus condi cleanse).

    I don't like that because timing attacks after dodges would be inconsistent and very annoying

    Inconsistent only between different players - would be consistent for a single player/opponent and in terms of IH/EM immediately recognisable if seeing clone ambush or not.

    One issue would be what happens to Dune Cloak and potential confusion between that and Elusive Mind if it were to behave like this, not being able to easily tell which is being used from the outset

    Another issue would be 2+ enemy mirages, one using IH one using EM, etc - could be pretty confusing if not identifying which player is which in terms of mc duration.

    So yes I can appreciate if it would be annoying - probably more the lack in change of the audio effect rather than the visual effect - and so while still being in support of this change can certainly accept reasons why it likely won't or shouldn't happen.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    In light of base mirage cloak revert to 0.75s, regarding Elusive Mind - how about the following change:

    • remove stunbreak entirely
    • replace with "increase mirage cloak duration from all sources by 33%"

    That could provide a meaningful choice at least between IH and EM (can deal with DC separately) in that IH would have shorter cloak but share with illusions (plus ambush) and EM would have longer cloak but selfish on player (plus condi cleanse).

    I don't like that because timing attacks after dodges would be inconsistent and very annoying

    Inconsistent only between different players - would be consistent for a single player/opponent and in terms of IH/EM immediately recognisable if seeing clone ambush or not.

    One issue would be what happens to Dune Cloak and potential confusion between that and Elusive Mind if it were to behave like this, not being able to easily tell which is being used from the outset

    Another issue would be 2+ enemy mirages, one using IH one using EM, etc - could be pretty confusing if not identifying which player is which in terms of mc duration.

    So yes I can appreciate if it would be annoying - probably more the lack in change of the audio effect rather than the visual effect - and so while still being in support of this change can certainly accept reasons why it likely won't or shouldn't happen.

    This is also a reason why I want MC to be 0.75 seconds. Muscle memory for timing attack after dodge.

    // Yanim

  • TwiceDead.1963TwiceDead.1963 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah, Mesmers got nerfed. Gonna take a wild guess and say you're still going to be a solid pick for every gamemode. New players will probably struggle with the changes. Good players probably won't.

  • Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

    Those who didn't struggle in game will be struggling in reality from mental issues soon, because nerfs are never enough, and anet will always nerf Mesmer "randomly" with random numbers/changes, and from time to time buff condi Mesmer "randomly" again, and when condi is OP power have to suffer with it in their eyes.

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭

    0.75s MC is a huge nerf. The remaining .25s was a blanket cover for nearly all skillcasts. Not to mention it evaded AoEs and attacks in general. Mirage will be having more trouble. Glad to see Axe being put back on the shelf--will make WvW and PvP more manageable now.

    Elusive Mind... it's honestly shocking how good this used to be compared to its current state. Is it even a GM trait anymore? Lol. Dune Cloak is also very weak, hope it improves in the future.

    Mirror Images could've used a shave and all would be well.

    Noobs playing these builds will have a harder time due to the face-target change.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Abelisk.4527 said:
    0.75s MC is a huge nerf. The remaining .25s was a blanket cover for nearly all skillcasts. Not to mention it evaded AoEs and attacks in general. Mirage will be having more trouble. Glad to see Axe being put back on the shelf--will make WvW and PvP more manageable now.

    Elusive Mind... it's honestly shocking how good this used to be compared to its current state. Is it even a GM trait anymore? Lol. Dune Cloak is also very weak, hope it improves in the future.

    Mirror Images could've used a shave and all would be well.

    Noobs playing these builds will have a harder time due to the face-target change.

    Either mirage will die entirely ...or... chaos will still carry dead elite spec.
    Anything else will be borderline unplayble .
    Hail scepter demolisher chrono eksde

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2019

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    In light of base mirage cloak revert to 0.75s, regarding Elusive Mind - how about the following change:

    • remove stunbreak entirely
    • replace with "increase mirage cloak duration from all sources by 33%"

    That could provide a meaningful choice at least between IH and EM (can deal with DC separately) in that IH would have shorter cloak but share with illusions (plus ambush) and EM would have longer cloak but selfish on player (plus condi cleanse).

    Why not additionally merge it with Mirage Mantle and instead add a none-dodge condition removal to the Master tier?

    Nice side effect: All GM traits would have an 'on Mirage Cloak' effect comparable to DD.

    Still hate Speed of Sand and feel it should be baseline, though. Mirage is just full of underwhelming traits. :s

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    In light of base mirage cloak revert to 0.75s, regarding Elusive Mind - how about the following change:

    • remove stunbreak entirely
    • replace with "increase mirage cloak duration from all sources by 33%"

    That could provide a meaningful choice at least between IH and EM (can deal with DC separately) in that IH would have shorter cloak but share with illusions (plus ambush) and EM would have longer cloak but selfish on player (plus condi cleanse).

    Why not additionally merge it with Mirage Mantle and instead add a none-dodge condition removal to the Master tier?

    Nice side effect: All GM traits would have an 'on Mirage Cloak' effect comparable to DD.

    Still hate Speed of Sand and feel it should be baseline, though. Mirage is just full of underwhelming traits. :s

    From personal bias perspective I'd rather not have condition removal trait be mutually exclusive with Axe trait - it's bad enough with Warden's Feedback and Restorative Illusions.

    Oh do you mean additional condi removal, so EM still has it on dodge? Sorry if I was mistaken - Hmm, that would need to be carefully balanced if so otherwise could have so much to trivialise condis given how much removal EM can generate in its current state. Not sure what kind of trait could be there.

    And yeah SoS is completely stupid - it's like saying "here's half your class mechanic" in one minor trait and "here's your other half" in another minor trait - when they should be in the same first trait. Especially once it becomes 0.75s, such a pathetic minor trait. I still recall unlocking mirage and just how bad it is with only mirage cloak but no superspeed unlocked. xD

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    And yeah SoS is completely stupid - it's like saying "here's half your class mechanic" in one minor trait and "here's your other half" in another minor trait - when they should be in the same first trait.

    That's a good point. With your permission will add it into the other thread :)

    The degenerate

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    And yeah SoS is completely stupid - it's like saying "here's half your class mechanic" in one minor trait and "here's your other half" in another minor trait - when they should be in the same first trait.

    That's a good point. With your permission will add it into the other thread :)

    Please do, I think a lot of people here share that opinion that Superspeed should be automatically built in to mirage cloak for its function, not a separate minor trait. :)

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    In light of base mirage cloak revert to 0.75s, regarding Elusive Mind - how about the following change:

    • remove stunbreak entirely
    • replace with "increase mirage cloak duration from all sources by 33%"

    That could provide a meaningful choice at least between IH and EM (can deal with DC separately) in that IH would have shorter cloak but share with illusions (plus ambush) and EM would have longer cloak but selfish on player (plus condi cleanse).

    I don't like that because timing attacks after dodges would be inconsistent and very annoying

    ? The timing window for ambush attacks won't be changing, that's in the patch notes. This doesn't affect timing attacks at all for mesmers

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    In light of base mirage cloak revert to 0.75s, regarding Elusive Mind - how about the following change:

    • remove stunbreak entirely
    • replace with "increase mirage cloak duration from all sources by 33%"

    That could provide a meaningful choice at least between IH and EM (can deal with DC separately) in that IH would have shorter cloak but share with illusions (plus ambush) and EM would have longer cloak but selfish on player (plus condi cleanse).

    I don't like that because timing attacks after dodges would be inconsistent and very annoying

    ? The timing window for ambush attacks won't be changing, that's in the patch notes. This doesn't affect timing attacks at all for mesmers

    No relevance to my comment.

    // Yanim

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    lol @ the people who think this will in any way remove mesmer from top tier in sPvP.

    The core mechanics are broken and have been broken since the phantasm rework. Until they revisit that the class will continue to be busted and people playing it will continue to be class carried to the sky and back.

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    lol @ the people who think this will in any way remove mesmer from top tier in sPvP.

    The core mechanics are broken and have been broken since the phantasm rework. Until they revisit that the class will continue to be busted and people playing it will continue to be class carried to the sky and back.

    The core mechanics were broken before the rework. Please take your contrarianism elsewhere.

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    From personal bias perspective I'd rather not have condition removal trait be mutually exclusive with Axe trait - it's bad enough with Warden's Feedback and Restorative Illusions.

    Oh do you mean additional condi removal, so EM still has it on dodge? Sorry if I was mistaken - Hmm, that would need to be carefully balanced if so otherwise could have so much to trivialise condis given how much removal EM can generate in its current state. Not sure what kind of trait could be there.

    I probably should have been more specific. EM would lose the condition removal.

    I don't see it competing with the Axe trait a problem. Either you want offense or defense. It's a choice. But yes, I do see the parallels.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    From personal bias perspective I'd rather not have condition removal trait be mutually exclusive with Axe trait - it's bad enough with Warden's Feedback and Restorative Illusions.

    Oh do you mean additional condi removal, so EM still has it on dodge? Sorry if I was mistaken - Hmm, that would need to be carefully balanced if so otherwise could have so much to trivialise condis given how much removal EM can generate in its current state. Not sure what kind of trait could be there.

    I probably should have been more specific. EM would lose the condition removal.

    I don't see it competing with the Axe trait a problem. Either you want offense or defense. It's a choice. But yes, I do see the parallels.

    Yeah sadly this is something I wouldn't like. After the changes, untraited axe will simply be kitten, so would hate it if condi removal is in the same tier.

    On a completely separate note - I just realised about Mimic - being manipulation, traited with MoM that is 24s cooldown skill duplication with reflect!! :open_mouth:
    Oh kitten, I think I will be switching to Blink/IA/Mimic for utilities.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    Well, RIP DPS Mesmer. Was nice having one for a little while.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anyone able to comment on the changes to things like MC? I can't play till tomorrow evening...

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Anyone able to comment on the changes to things like MC? I can't play till tomorrow evening...

    Only played power mirage, it's still playable but the mc cut can be felt both on movement and evade.
    IA nerf cuts the survival a ton.

    The degenerate

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Anyone able to comment on the changes to things like MC? I can't play till tomorrow evening...

    Only played power mirage, it's still playable but the mc cut can be felt both on movement and evade.
    IA nerf cuts the survival a ton.

    Thanks, sad to have to only read info tonight instead of test.

    Anyone comment on axe ambush tracking - specifically if a target starts off in front of you but moves behind you during the time it takes for flying axes to travel? Do they still track or does the target have to be in front of you the whole time until they hit?

    Any masochists want to test how the new exhaustion stacking makes EM even worse? More feedback for Anet on how stupid this trait is would be helpful.

    Anyone tried Mimic buff to make up for IA nerf?

    Any more feedback on mobility and survivability with 0.75 mc. Including mirror pickups.

    :)

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    Exhaustion I said was a poor mechanic when it was applied to thief, I stand by that for Elusive Mind and even more so now with it now stacking. I feel so sorry for thieves.

    Don't be, at least for now, it depends on the interpretation.
    My interpretation is that if you remove the 3 MICs you get 9sec exhaustion. But according to thieves the maximum amount is 4 sec, which makes kind of sense because it was suggested on a thief thread that it should depend on the MIC removed, so all in all it's a buff.

    • Unhindered Combatant: The duration of exhaustion that this trait applies when dodging is now 2 seconds if crippled is present, 3 seconds if chilled is present, and 4 seconds if immobilized is present. Exhaustion will now be applied when the dodge is initiated.

    To me it means that given the prevalence of certain conditions it's made UC worse vs necro in general as you're likely to be hit by a 5s exhaustion hit per dodge. To put it bluntly you will have no regen from vigor at all. Ele will shut down your dodge regen with chill because they have double passive frost aura on their support build so that's now 6s exhaustion.

    It's basically increasing the punishment from exhaustion for thieves and mesmers on certain traits and as I said exhaustion in my opinion is a really poor mechanic.

    I've the same interpretation as you.

    But according to thieves, if cripple is removed you get 2 seconds of exhaustion, if cripple and chilled are removed or just chilled - you get 3 seconds and if immobilize you get 4 sec independently if other MICs are present. In this view it's a buff because you get lesser overall exhaustion.
    Their interpretation makes sense considering that the change was suggested like that.

    TBH I would prefer my interpretation out of the two, I don't think UC needs a buff. Thief already bypass a ton of mechanics on these game.

    I don't think it will work like that, I think it will essentially apply a stack of exhaustion per condition removed so removing all 3 hits you with 9s. At least it would then be on par with EM :lol:

    Well it seems thieves had it right, can only get maximum 4sec exhaustion.
    A trait that was already awesome got buffed.
    Meanwhile EM that was trash is still trash, gotta love to be ANet's favourite child!

    The degenerate

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    Exhaustion I said was a poor mechanic when it was applied to thief, I stand by that for Elusive Mind and even more so now with it now stacking. I feel so sorry for thieves.

    Don't be, at least for now, it depends on the interpretation.
    My interpretation is that if you remove the 3 MICs you get 9sec exhaustion. But according to thieves the maximum amount is 4 sec, which makes kind of sense because it was suggested on a thief thread that it should depend on the MIC removed, so all in all it's a buff.

    • Unhindered Combatant: The duration of exhaustion that this trait applies when dodging is now 2 seconds if crippled is present, 3 seconds if chilled is present, and 4 seconds if immobilized is present. Exhaustion will now be applied when the dodge is initiated.

    To me it means that given the prevalence of certain conditions it's made UC worse vs necro in general as you're likely to be hit by a 5s exhaustion hit per dodge. To put it bluntly you will have no regen from vigor at all. Ele will shut down your dodge regen with chill because they have double passive frost aura on their support build so that's now 6s exhaustion.

    It's basically increasing the punishment from exhaustion for thieves and mesmers on certain traits and as I said exhaustion in my opinion is a really poor mechanic.

    I've the same interpretation as you.

    But according to thieves, if cripple is removed you get 2 seconds of exhaustion, if cripple and chilled are removed or just chilled - you get 3 seconds and if immobilize you get 4 sec independently if other MICs are present. In this view it's a buff because you get lesser overall exhaustion.
    Their interpretation makes sense considering that the change was suggested like that.

    TBH I would prefer my interpretation out of the two, I don't think UC needs a buff. Thief already bypass a ton of mechanics on these game.

    I don't think it will work like that, I think it will essentially apply a stack of exhaustion per condition removed so removing all 3 hits you with 9s. At least it would then be on par with EM :lol:

    Well it seems thieves had it right, can only get maximum 4sec exhaustion.
    A trait that was already awesome got buffed.
    Meanwhile EM that was trash is still trash, gotta love to be ANet's favourite child!

    I really don't understand why they didn't at least do the exact same contextual change to EM, if they're really adamant about not redesigning it.

    I would have been ok if daze did 2s, fear/taunt 3s and stun/knockdown/etc gave 6s.

    Seriously don't understand why this wasn't done at the same time...

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    Exhaustion I said was a poor mechanic when it was applied to thief, I stand by that for Elusive Mind and even more so now with it now stacking. I feel so sorry for thieves.

    Don't be, at least for now, it depends on the interpretation.
    My interpretation is that if you remove the 3 MICs you get 9sec exhaustion. But according to thieves the maximum amount is 4 sec, which makes kind of sense because it was suggested on a thief thread that it should depend on the MIC removed, so all in all it's a buff.

    • Unhindered Combatant: The duration of exhaustion that this trait applies when dodging is now 2 seconds if crippled is present, 3 seconds if chilled is present, and 4 seconds if immobilized is present. Exhaustion will now be applied when the dodge is initiated.

    To me it means that given the prevalence of certain conditions it's made UC worse vs necro in general as you're likely to be hit by a 5s exhaustion hit per dodge. To put it bluntly you will have no regen from vigor at all. Ele will shut down your dodge regen with chill because they have double passive frost aura on their support build so that's now 6s exhaustion.

    It's basically increasing the punishment from exhaustion for thieves and mesmers on certain traits and as I said exhaustion in my opinion is a really poor mechanic.

    I've the same interpretation as you.

    But according to thieves, if cripple is removed you get 2 seconds of exhaustion, if cripple and chilled are removed or just chilled - you get 3 seconds and if immobilize you get 4 sec independently if other MICs are present. In this view it's a buff because you get lesser overall exhaustion.
    Their interpretation makes sense considering that the change was suggested like that.

    TBH I would prefer my interpretation out of the two, I don't think UC needs a buff. Thief already bypass a ton of mechanics on these game.

    I don't think it will work like that, I think it will essentially apply a stack of exhaustion per condition removed so removing all 3 hits you with 9s. At least it would then be on par with EM :lol:

    Well it seems thieves had it right, can only get maximum 4sec exhaustion.
    A trait that was already awesome got buffed.
    Meanwhile EM that was trash is still trash, gotta love to be ANet's favourite child!

    I really don't understand why they didn't at least do the exact same contextual change to EM, if they're really adamant about not redesigning it.

    I would have been ok if daze did 2s, fear/taunt 3s and stun/knockdown/etc gave 6s.

    Seriously don't understand why this wasn't done at the same time...

    Better not give them ideas, that would still be an worseless trait. :)

    The degenerate

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2019

    True it would still be a bad problem.

    It's just annoying that it's 3 months each time with "half-done" changes... I sincerely hope with the new structure at Anet there may be some kind of push for more frequent and thorough balance, rather than skimming through a dozen traits/skills each time and leaving it at that. :/

    Edit - ok just been testing out new things, some feedback:

    IA double nerf is too harsh - because the mc is also only 0.75s in addition to cd increase. Seriously questioning the value of taking this skill over better options. Especially when rng fails, it just becomes useless. 30s as in beta/demo would have been fine.

    Nerf to mirage mirrors has also indirectly nerfed skills like Sand through Glass... lol like those needed it.

    Overall the 0.75 mc is most felt not so much on evade access but mobility from superspeed. Movement is more sluggish especially without 25% speed boost, and feels less dynamic to play. Also together with the past Jaunt nerfs which IMO should be partly reverted (20s cooldown instead of 30).

    The axe nerfs are lol... totally negligable in wvw - still able to hybrid burst. I see that ambush simply doesn't cast if facing away from a target. It's a bit of a joke when all these nerfs have done is reduce survivability further, but IH burst damage combos are still crazy.

    So bottom line the only thing still bugging me is the total lack of interest in changing Elusive Mind.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ok I am really digging Mirage Advance right now in place of (dead) IA.

    But it's still a bit... meh.

    Should Mirage Advance get same treatment as axe 3 with 0.75s evade built in? I think that single change would be the difference between MA being so-so and amazing.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Ok I am really digging Mirage Advance right now in place of (dead) IA.

    But it's still a bit... meh.

    Should Mirage Advance get same treatment as axe 3 with 0.75s evade built in? I think that single change would be the difference between MA being so-so and amazing.

    I tried MA too when ANet announced the patch preview, it take some time to get used to it. I still think it should be instant or grant quickness when you finish the teleport.

    The degenerate

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Ok I am really digging Mirage Advance right now in place of (dead) IA.

    But it's still a bit... meh.

    Should Mirage Advance get same treatment as axe 3 with 0.75s evade built in? I think that single change would be the difference between MA being so-so and amazing.

    I tried MA too when ANet announced the patch preview, it take some time to get used to it. I still think it should be instant or grant quickness when you finish the teleport.

    Yeah I remember, I've kind of swung back to it again and it has a nice juking potential with IH - kind of like deconstructed IA where you have to plan ahead a bit and setup but I honestly think I'm going to stick with it properly now.

    I needed a "de-aggro" utility when in staff, and because stealth is just kitten with reflects (funny all the evasive mirror hate seems to ignore the fact that stealth does not work well with high reflect uptime, often instantly breaking rendering it useless - hence detarget more useful) I can't bring myself to use SoM because so boring (I never truly liked signets), Decoy is just too high cooldown since IC deletion, Veil is lol... Mirror Images is pure kitten, and IA now is just far too long cooldown for the effect.

    MA on the other hand is lowest cooldown with reasonable complement to axe 3 for burst setup, eg when chasing, reasonable skill ceiling for creativity and overall fun to port around in combat.

    I think it's healthy to not be instant - also kind of differentiates the mirage offensive ports from say thief sword 2 and similar.
    Axe 3 though has leap finisher and evade, and for MA to become more than a meme/niche pick it ought to have similar potential - at least the same evade frame.

    Quickness seems nice idea for burst after cast though personally I wouldn't care too much here - I suppose that would help power mirage with GS/sword more though which could be worthwhile.

    Will continue using it in any case and see how things go - may find situations where its shortcomings become more apparent.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Ok I am really digging Mirage Advance right now in place of (dead) IA.

    But it's still a bit... meh.

    Should Mirage Advance get same treatment as axe 3 with 0.75s evade built in? I think that single change would be the difference between MA being so-so and amazing.

    I tried MA too when ANet announced the patch preview, it take some time to get used to it. I still think it should be instant or grant quickness when you finish the teleport.

    Yeah I remember, I've kind of swung back to it again and it has a nice juking potential with IH - kind of like deconstructed IA where you have to plan ahead a bit and setup but I honestly think I'm going to stick with it properly now.

    I needed a "de-aggro" utility when in staff, and because stealth is just kitten with reflects (funny all the evasive mirror hate seems to ignore the fact that stealth does not work well with high reflect uptime, often instantly breaking rendering it useless - hence detarget more useful) I can't bring myself to use SoM because so boring (I never truly liked signets), Decoy is just too high cooldown since IC deletion, Veil is lol... Mirror Images is pure kitten, and IA now is just far too long cooldown for the effect.

    MA on the other hand is lowest cooldown with reasonable complement to axe 3 for burst setup, eg when chasing, reasonable skill ceiling for creativity and overall fun to port around in combat.

    I think it's healthy to not be instant - also kind of differentiates the mirage offensive ports from say thief sword 2 and similar.
    Axe 3 though has leap finisher and evade, and for MA to become more than a meme/niche pick it ought to have similar potential - at least the same evade frame.

    Quickness seems nice idea for burst after cast though personally I wouldn't care too much here - I suppose that would help power mirage with GS/sword more though which could be worthwhile.

    Will continue using it in any case and see how things go - may find situations where its shortcomings become more apparent.

    Yes, in a condi build it doesn't feel that lacking.
    I was talking from a power point of view, you can't combo mirror blade because of cast time, can't f3 as soon as you teleport because mirror blade has cast time. Perhaps using the sigil that gives quickness on swap on gs would do the trick, have to try it.

    The degenerate

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah I totally appreciate that - to follow up MA with say GS2 combo etc. Do feedback how you get on with the quickness sigil or other ways of adapting it. :)

    With axe it flows naturally as a secondary axe 3, or with staff there's nothing really to follow up with anyway save a shatter. In any case I'm tending to save the backport for use in staff as a pseudo-IA effect.

    I imagine with scepter could be followed up with a block shatter combo (depending on situation), or sword could just be immediate BF shatter.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Vincenzo.3145Vincenzo.3145 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 8, 2019

    This is the nail in the coffin for SoI for me. I wanna play a support, but I'm sick of just min/maxing Quickness and Alacrity. Mantra heals suck and there's no way to share boons effectively outside wells which no one ever stands in. Plus the work I have to do just to get another 9 seconds of Quickness and Alacrity compared to Renegade and Firebrand is absurd. Mesmer is just a portal slave to me now that is otherwise a waste of gold what with the constant over the top changes. This class needs to be changed to back when SoI could share boons rather than extend them and then left alone while buffing everything else. If the White Mantle Portal Device didn't have such a long cooldown, I would probably just delete my Mesmer.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    Strange, but I like changes and don't feel any nerf in pve or pvp on mesmer. May be you need ppl that stand in wells and understand when and how to stack? So this is not your's problem at all. Add 300kp to your's party message and get pleasure from gameplay

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Fotm players moved to this ridiculous sustain Scrapper build.

    Projectile hate is back again so as good as staff is, I don’t see it as a good matchup versus Scrapper. Power Mirage still seems to be a good option, though.

    If they tone down some of the gyros then overall this is a good patch.

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    Yeah sadly this is something I wouldn't like. After the changes, untraited axe will simply be kitten, so would hate it if condi removal is in the same tier.

    I know what you mean and that it would hurt specific builds. Conceptually, it does make sense, though.

    To be honest, I just wished Mirage got a significant review when it comes to traits. I do love the theme but the implementation was problematic from the start. I don't even want to talk about Mirrors. Now that numbers are nerfed I don't see a good reason to pick it anymore. Worse, it might see even more nerfes considering people hate playing against Mesmers due to its unarguably frustrating class mechanic. It's not trash. But it doesn't excite me.

    I'm not looking for anything meta. I just want to enjoy some tricky gameplay (with lockdowns and interrupts).

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    Yeah sadly this is something I wouldn't like. After the changes, untraited axe will simply be kitten, so would hate it if condi removal is in the same tier.

    I know what you mean and that it would hurt specific builds. Conceptually, it does make sense, though.

    To be honest, I just wished Mirage got a significant review when it comes to traits. I do love the theme but the implementation was problematic from the start. I don't even want to talk about Mirrors. Now that numbers are nerfed I don't see a good reason to pick it anymore. Worse, it might see even more nerfes considering people hate playing against Mesmers due to its unarguably frustrating class mechanic. It's not trash. But it doesn't excite me.

    I'm not looking for anything meta. I just want to enjoy some tricky gameplay (with lockdowns and interrupts).

    Oh I agree hope to see for a huge mirage rework maybe by the next expansion/LW season when they can afford a significant patch.

    Mirage is a bit of a mess at the moment - I don't like some of the design decisions in traits or skills and feel it should have been different - eg building around IH as minor trait as one thing.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭

    Chrono and core are just fine, in fact I greatly prefer my chrono builds over Mirage currently. The only big downside to core is your elite options.

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