Why kill power chrono?

The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

"• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

I have re-read this skill change few times now and I have to admit I am not sure i understand what it exactly means.

On topic of danger time. Power Chrono was strong and used even before recent changes to danger time. And if i'm not mistaken back then Improved Alacrity was taken. Danger time made it way to strong and its the change that realistically shouldn't have been introduced.

Overall, I think that power chrono is far from dead with these new changes.

First of all I knew SotEther had it coming. It was most likely unintended behaviour.

Then, power chrono is not dead yet. Focus build will suffer a lot but the GS rota (which is the more interesting one imo) will still be able to 4x cast iZerk&iDisench and 2x cast iDefender. Focus might need to stick to its current rotation and deal with the fact that it looses 1 row of phantasms which decreases the initial burst a bunch. That beeing said it is possible to do a 4x sword 3x disench and 2x defender rotation on that build.

[1x],[2x],... <--These are cast counters for the phantasms to show how often each phantasm gets cast in total.

(experimental) new Greatsword opening

It might be worth it addind Mirror Blade and Mind Stab between 17 and 18 but I didn't test that.

(experimental) new Focus opening

@kasoki.5180 said:I have re-read this skill change few times now and I have to admit I am not sure i understand what it exactly means.

On topic of danger time. Power Chrono was strong and used even before recent changes to danger time. And if i'm not mistaken back then Improved Alacrity was taken. Danger time made it way to strong and its the change that realistically shouldn't have been introduced.

Overall, I think that power chrono is far from dead with these new changes.The common interpretation is that the signet of ether continuum split phantasm refresh feature that allowed you to cast 4 sets of phantasms back to back was removed, and after patch you will only be able to cast 3 sets max. This doesn’t only affect damage via phantasms, but also clone generation and related mods and skills (e.g. mind wrack and ammo for other shatters).

Power chrono is (currently) strong within certain contexts (solo play, low buff environment) but has fundamental flaws that make it somewhat unfavourable to other options, most of which arise from the the build’s burst potential. pchrono’s dmg layout can be considered condi-like despite actually being power - its burst requires build up, doesn’t really peak but is more spread out and completely flubbers when the target dies or phases. pchrono’s burst is also fairly infrequent and risky to perform, sitting at a 60-105s cd depending on traits and alacrity uptime. A bird instab (frequent blinds), interrupts or forced dodge can ruin most of the csplit combo. This change dumbs down the flawed burst even more.

The nerf to danger time was warranted, before pchrono sat at 33-34k, DT raised that to 40k+ but now players predict pchrono is going to bench at ~26k, now with an even weaker burst.

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:The nerf to danger time was warranted, before pchrono sat at 33-34k, DT raised that to 40k+ but now players predict pchrono is going to bench at ~26k, now with an even weaker burst.

DT was unrealistic and only possible on golem. There's no way you can have perma slow on a boss under normal conditions, unless you bring a couple of condi renegades or something.

Nerfing it is one thing, but why not rework it? Make it work when chrono has quickness or alacrity or something that's more realistic anyway, so you can reliably have 100% uptime and not have to wear so many assassins pieces.

@kasoki.5180 said:I have re-read this skill change few times now and I have to admit I am not sure i understand what it exactly means.

SotE refreshes the cooldown of your phantasms before it puts itself on cooldown. So, in that small window, you could cast Continuum Split. What happened was that chrono opening was casting all phantasms and do the SotE trick I mentioned, then go to CS with at least 1 clone. During that CS, your phantasms had already reset, so you could cast them again, then after CS ends, your SotE is reset and your phantasms are still up, so your get a 3rd round of phantasms, then SotE for the 4th round.

On topic of danger time. Power Chrono was strong and used even before recent changes to danger time. And if i'm not mistaken back then Improved Alacrity was taken. Danger time made it way to strong and its the change that realistically shouldn't have been introduced.

Improved Alacrity is taken, but Danger Time could have been an option for pChrono to fall back on, since the build uses a lot of assassins pieces. If DT was a reliable way to get that crit chance, pChrono could have replaced those assassins pieces with zerkers. Well, that's not going to happen now.

Signet of Ether bugfix is fine. Danger time should not have been nerfed at least in PvP.

I really cannot understand how they buff moa in PvE but split it from PvP, even though not a single decent mesmer has used it in PvP since the nerf. Then they nerf danger time due to PvE but DON'T split it in PvP, where no meta build uses it. It should be the exact reverse.

Now bunker chrono will be even more dominant in PvP than it already was.

Are the splits completely random?

you still have Lost Time in pvp which is kitten OP

@"Quadox.7834" said:Signet of Ether bugfix is fine. Danger time should not have been nerfed at least in PvP.

I really cannot understand how they buff moa in PvE but split it from PvP, even though not a single decent mesmer has used it in PvP since the nerf. Then they nerf danger time due to PvE but DON'T split it in PvP, where no meta build uses it. It should be the exact reverse.

Now bunker chrono will be even more dominant in PvP than it already was.

Are the splits completely random?

This thread has nothing to do with pvp, what is it with pvpers that feel the need to make everything a pvp rant?

This is the death of a perfectly fine and balanced pve dps build for no reason at all. So no, the "bugfix" is not fine.

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@"Quadox.7834" said:Signet of Ether bugfix is fine. Danger time should not have been nerfed at least in PvP.

I really cannot understand how they buff moa in PvE but split it from PvP, even though not a single decent mesmer has used it in PvP since the nerf. Then they nerf danger time due to PvE but DON'T split it in PvP, where no meta build uses it. It should be the exact reverse.

Now bunker chrono will be even more dominant in PvP than it already was.

Are the splits completely random?

Its been a recurring theme since launch that if PvP player want a class nerfed then they want it nerfed in PvE too out of spite.

"PvE dictates balance changes"Yeah I'm sure there was a big PvE outcry to stop a DPS class from dodging out of aoe attacks.

@Levetty.1279 said:

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@"Quadox.7834" said:Signet of Ether bugfix is fine. Danger time should not have been nerfed at least in PvP.

I really cannot understand how they buff moa in PvE but split it from PvP, even though not a single decent mesmer has used it in PvP since the nerf. Then they nerf danger time due to PvE but DON'T split it in PvP, where no meta build uses it. It should be the exact reverse.

Now bunker chrono will be even more dominant in PvP than it already was.

Are the splits completely random?

This very change we are discussing is a prime example of PvE balancing."Its been a recurring theme since launch that if PvP player want a class nerfed then they want it nerfed in PvE too out of spite."This is an outright lie if you can't provide any evidence. Why on earth would anyone want that??

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Levetty.1279 said:

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Signet of Ether bugfix is fine. Danger time should not have been nerfed at least in PvP.

I really cannot understand how they buff moa in PvE but split it from PvP, even though not a single decent mesmer has used it in PvP since the nerf. Then they nerf danger time due to PvE but DON'T split it in PvP, where no meta build uses it. It should be the exact reverse.

Now bunker chrono will be even more dominant in PvP than it already was.

Are the splits completely random?

Pro tip, if you don't want people to think you are a troll don't just burst out insulting them and proving them right. There have been hundreds of threads on the old forums and posts on reddit proving it.

@Levetty.1279 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Levetty.1279 said:

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Signet of Ether bugfix is fine. Danger time should not have been nerfed at least in PvP.

I really cannot understand how they buff moa in PvE but split it from PvP, even though not a single decent mesmer has used it in PvP since the nerf. Then they nerf danger time due to PvE but DON'T split it in PvP, where no meta build uses it. It should be the exact reverse.

Now bunker chrono will be even more dominant in PvP than it already was.

Are the splits completely random?

1. Never insulted you.
2. "Proving them right" - never happened. You made that up.
3. "There have been hundreds of threads on the old forums and posts on reddit proving it" - you haven't shown any. In either case, this is irrelevant, as I don't want a class nerfed in PvE "out of spite". This is a ridiculous idea, as I said I love for power chrono (and support chrono) to be viable in PvE.

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:

The common interpretation is that the signet of ether continuum split phantasm refresh feature that allowed you to cast 4 sets of phantasms back to back was removed, and after patch you will only be able to cast 3 sets max. This doesn’t only affect damage via phantasms, but also clone generation and related mods and skills (e.g. mind wrack and ammo for other shatters).

As I have said above we'll probably go from using (Sword, Disen, Def) in a 4 4 4 scenario to a 4 3 2 scenario. As swordsman is the highest damaging phantasm we will probably priorize this one. For GS where we did (Zerk, Disen, Def) 4 4 4 we will now probably do 4 4 2 (as we have more initial clones. Keep in mind that a 3 clone start will make it possible to still run 4 4 4 on both builds (e.g. MO Sw4 precasting).

@Me Games Ma.8426 said:As I have said above we'll probably go from using (Sword, Disen, Def) in a 4 4 4 scenario to a 4 3 2 scenario. As swordsman is the highest damaging phantasm we will probably priorize this one. For GS where we did (Zerk, Disen, Def) 4 4 4 we will now probably do 4 4 2 (as we have more initial clones. Keep in mind that a 3 clone start will make it possible to still run 4 4 4 on both builds (e.g. MO Sw4 precasting).I’m already pretending that patch already hit, so I’ve replaced mantra with mirror images. This way I get most of my entire burst back, but minus some extra dps from the periodical power spike (which could always be replaced by SoI anyway). I’ve always been playing IA focus so the DT nerf doesn’t mean much personally, and I don’t think the change isn’t completely death-of-spec drastic - maybe still be hovering around 30k, DT at 33-35k post patch, but I don’t do benchmarks. Also the highest benchmarks would likely drop a bit due to bannershave (which sadly hits pchrono harder than a lot of other specs).

This does however make the pchrono rotation somewhat more interesting because the combo is now longer (3s -> 4.5/6s) with only 1 or 2s of distort to cover because dodging breaks the combo (hello perma-blind birds, consta-rupt molten zerker, siren’s reef and now brazen gladiator, I’ve always hated you since I play this spec), and requires 2 or 3 clones as opposed to 1. The spec definitely won’t be as braindead compared to before.

Now I’m just waiting for patch to hit to see the differences between ~6 ish variants of pchrono, dom/illu (gs/focus), DT/IA and mantra/images, if people are willing to test them all...

On a random note, even if the phantasm refresh bug/feature was existent for some time, I don’t think the double heal from SoE was intended. Also for the extra crit chance on DT, I believe it would be better to place it within core mes (maybe duel) so all power mes variants, including future ones, aren’t pigeonholed into assassin gear. The dmg mod could be increased and split two-way between quickness on self and slow on foe, or three-way with quickness, alacrity and slow. And well of calamity, does it even exist anymore?

@"RabbitUp.8294" said:The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

"• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

I never liked Chrono DPS. Chronomancer is the support build that buffs allies with quickness and alacrity as well as having tons of defensive options. Mirage is the DPS spec. Elite specializations need to be balanced around unique niches for them to be in a healthy state. This is like if Druids were suddenly the best ranger DPS build. It's not healthy for the game's balance if Druid does both it's role and Soubleast's role better than Soulbeast did.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"RabbitUp.8294" said:The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

"• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

Yea it's definitely not healthy if support build would make high dps, but what's ur problem with chrono in zerk dealing meta dps? I don't think chronophantasma was meant to be support trait. It s good for game if 1 spec can do multiple roles

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"RabbitUp.8294" said:The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

"• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

Chronophantasma was originally built in a way that was only good on support because for PvE Power mesmer before Path of Fire you never wanted to shatter your phantasms. You let them ramp up with Phantasmal Force and leave them be. Where as support frequently did shatter for things like Continuum Split, Distortion, and Distraction.

Chronophantasma effectively doubling the damage of phantasms was a poorly thought out attempt to try and keep the flavor of old chronophantasma and never really made sense. A lot of things about the phantasm update weren't particularly well thought out.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"RabbitUp.8294" said:The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

"• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

OK but still what's ur problem with specs having more than 1 role. It would be bad for build diversity

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"RabbitUp.8294" said:The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

"• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

What's going to be bad for diversity is if the next mesmer elite spec is a dedicated high DPS less bursty power spec and has absolutely no place in the game because if you want Power DPS Chronomancer will be better.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"RabbitUp.8294" said:The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

"• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

There's something called balance patches, that should make benchmarks equal. If someone like playing chrono than let him play, heal, dps or boonsupport as this class. Don't force him to go mirage cuz it's "dps class"

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"RabbitUp.8294" said:The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

"• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

Because then there's no point in having specializations, elite or otherwise, at all.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"RabbitUp.8294" said:The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

"• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

ofc there is. its a game style. some ppl want to be dodgy thief, some want to abuse stealth and pew pew from far away, some ppl want to manipulate time and cd, some want to be invincible fuckers, some ppl want to be fking reaper, some want to manipulate area with shades, some want to read tomes, and some want to put traps and pull enemies into it. but forcing certain playstyle to a role is a mistake

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"RabbitUp.8294" said:The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

"• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

Okay but what if I want permanent stealth but don't want to take Shadow Arts?! I should be able to have permanent stealth while taking all max damage specializations it's not fair. Why can't I play the way I want to play?!

And yeah, guess what with Reaper Condi Reaper is not good in PvE or PvP. It's a dedicated power spec. In fact when condi reaper was good people hated it because they wanted the specialization to be power melee orientated and it was terrible at that. Now it's great at that in PvP and workable in PvE. Scourge is a long ranged, AoE condi bomber. It's would be terrible design if reaper was both the best condition spec, the best power damage spec and better at both than Scourge. Scourge would have no place in the game.

The point of different specializations is that they excel at different unique things. That's where flavor comes from, what you're good at and what you're not so good at. Chronomancer has always been a defensively orientated support spec. There can never be a new Power Damage spec so long as Power Chronomancer exists.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"RabbitUp.8294" said:The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

"• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

in first place permastealth shouldnt exist, 2nd off all if u want perma stealth, u should deal no dmg at all and in the last, u dont need sa for perma stealth.

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"RabbitUp.8294" said:The initial class burp was all focused on support chrono and mirage, and then you have this here sneaky little change:

"• Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged."

Why? Why completely kill dps chrono without any compensatory buff? Even a nerf to Danger Time without at least reworking it so that it becomes a lot more realistic to take in pve scenarios, since slow uptime is quite limited.

The dps numbers were perfectly in-line with the rest of the meta, the rotation was fun and engaging, and we are not going to get a new expansion for quite a while, so it's not like mesmer was going to get a power spec any time soon. So of course the most logical thing to do was kill power chrono. To say that I'm extremely disappointed is putting it lightly.

You're hurting my flavor. I should have permanent stealth and meta DPs at the same time always. It's not like it's hurting anybody. What do you have against my flavor?