[Discussion/Suggestion] The state of "Sic 'Em!" in PvP and WvW. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Discussion/Suggestion] The state of "Sic 'Em!" in PvP and WvW.

Lottie.5370Lottie.5370 Member ✭✭✭

The current skill gives a 40% damage and movement boost for 8 seconds, with a 35 second recharge (28s when traited, also providing swiftness and regen). It also has 2000 range and applies revealed.

I don't really see a problem with this skill in PvE, it gives Soulbeast a huge damage boost that is needed for it to compete with other roles damage-wise.

In PvP and WvW however, I feel like it is too high of a damage buff. I can sit on top of a hill somewhere, see someone running about below: merge with pet, "Sic 'Em!" and Longbow 2 and that guy is dead. The whole thing is unblockable. I've been able to down squishier classes with just "Sic 'Em!" and one longbow auto, doing over 15k dmg. Because of the movement speed, it's also pretty hard to outrun.

Suggestion: Reduce the damage and movement buff in PvP and WvW to 20% or 30%. I think the duration/recharge is fine, however the range also seems a bit too high and should be scaled down to 1500 or 1200.

How do you guys feel about this skill at the moment? Do you find the revealed mechanic useful?

I don't think it's the biggest problem with Ranger, but I don't think it's particularly fun to play as, or against. I was surprised to see boonbeast nerfs in the patch and having this staying untouched.

<13

Comments

  • Lottie.5370Lottie.5370 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    I don't think it's really a problem, but this is coming from someone who's not played WvW for a couple months. You have to consider things in tandem with what other classes can do. First off rangers are not really useful in zergs so that pushes them to roamers. Other roamers, lets say deadeye, can do something similar bursting you from stealth. Warrior, another good roaming class, will most likely have defy pain slotted and survive your burst and chase your kitten down.

    I think this is a separate issue and because of the kit, and not really related to Sic Em.

    True, it seems over powered when you catch a squishy wandering out in the middle of no where and snipe them but then again that player probably shouldn't have been positioned where they were in a glass squishy build. It's more their fault than the ranger's builds fault. If boonbeast and sic 'em sniper both get nerfed to be in a 'reasonable' state ranger wouldn't stand a chance against other 'unreasonable' classes and have no place in WvW/PvP at all. (i put those words in quotes because where things stand in terms of power/reason is only relative to how powerful/reasonable other professions are)

    I think the build would still be viable with a slight nerf to the damage %, it doesn't take catching someone unaware to kill them. Ranger also has a lot of mobility when using Greatsword, and has CC and Stealth on the Longbow. It also has a decent amount of defensive options whilst maintaining the damage.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lottie.5370 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    I don't think it's really a problem, but this is coming from someone who's not played WvW for a couple months. You have to consider things in tandem with what other classes can do. First off rangers are not really useful in zergs so that pushes them to roamers. Other roamers, lets say deadeye, can do something similar bursting you from stealth. Warrior, another good roaming class, will most likely have defy pain slotted and survive your burst and chase your kitten down.

    I think this is a separate issue and because of the kit, and not really related to Sic Em.

    True, it seems over powered when you catch a squishy wandering out in the middle of no where and snipe them but then again that player probably shouldn't have been positioned where they were in a glass squishy build. It's more their fault than the ranger's builds fault. If boonbeast and sic 'em sniper both get nerfed to be in a 'reasonable' state ranger wouldn't stand a chance against other 'unreasonable' classes and have no place in WvW/PvP at all. (i put those words in quotes because where things stand in terms of power/reason is only relative to how powerful/reasonable other professions are)

    I think the build would still be viable with a slight nerf to the damage %, it doesn't take catching someone unaware to kill them. Ranger also has a lot of mobility when using Greatsword, and has CC and Stealth on the Longbow. It also has a decent amount of defensive options whilst maintaining the damage.

    I don't really think it will make a difference though. If someone was going to die to Sic 'Em at 40% damage that same player is probably still going to die even if it only did 20%, it might just take a few seconds longer to get the job done. At best it might make it harder for new rangers. I think it's a matter of game sense and awareness. You should know it's a possibility you could get sniped from 1500 range (or from stealth, or charged by an invincible juggernaut) and tailor your build accordingly.

    TL;DR
    I think Sic 'em is fine where it is but I'm also fine with a nerf because I don't think it would make that much of a difference. It's more of a l2p issue for the people dying to it in my opinion

    "Maining" necromancer now but I play all professions really.
    Lets work together to improve the player's experience.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    From my point of view no, it is not OP, many classes can one-shot players with low armor, DE, Power Mirage, Revenant for example and do not require sickem.

    Only main rangers require nerfs for their profession. ☺

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    The issue is the 4 second unblockable ( and the ability to get 3k power easy)

  • Crystal Paladin.3871Crystal Paladin.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2019

    @Lottie.5370 said:
    The current skill gives a 40% damage and movement boost for 8 seconds, with a 35 second recharge (28s when traited, also providing swiftness and regen). It also has 2000 range and applies revealed.

    Idk if the tooltip is right about the 40% dmg... Will check it out today compare it with and without sicem. Coz, I couldn't find that much of a difference while using it TBH.

    The whole thing is unblockable.

    I'm confused here... Did u try it? Or it's just the word "sicem" is a bit overwhelming/misleading/exaggerating? Or the skill has a bug?

    Anyway, I won't equip sicem in PVP unless there's a thief/Daredevil in the opposite team to trap them with "revealed". If that's a DE, then I'd think twice about equipping it coz they would kick the whole skill slot to the trashcan with a simple shadow meld and twice

  • Lottie.5370Lottie.5370 Member ✭✭✭

    Then make them viable in zergs, no one is playing this build in a zerg and it's part of the reason people hate rangers in them xD

  • oOStaticOo.9467oOStaticOo.9467 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lottie.5370 said:
    Then make them viable in zergs, no one is playing this build in a zerg and it's part of the reason people hate rangers in them xD

    Actually people are playing them in zergs. Only they aren't in zergs. They are clouding on the skirts of zergs. The reason they are not in a squad is because they can do what they need to do by themselves and do not need the benefit of all the boons that the zerg itself needs. Druid needs to be reworked to be included in zergs and benefit in squads. I know plenty of commanders that want Soulbeasts to follow them around and even instruct them to focus their ranged attacks on certain enemies or to take out siege that other players cannot reach, except for Ele's with Meteor Shower.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lottie.5370 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    I don't think it's really a problem, but this is coming from someone who's not played WvW for a couple months. You have to consider things in tandem with what other classes can do. First off rangers are not really useful in zergs so that pushes them to roamers. Other roamers, lets say deadeye, can do something similar bursting you from stealth. Warrior, another good roaming class, will most likely have defy pain slotted and survive your burst and chase your kitten down.

    I think this is a separate issue and because of the kit, and not really related to Sic Em.

    True, it seems over powered when you catch a squishy wandering out in the middle of no where and snipe them but then again that player probably shouldn't have been positioned where they were in a glass squishy build. It's more their fault than the ranger's builds fault. If boonbeast and sic 'em sniper both get nerfed to be in a 'reasonable' state ranger wouldn't stand a chance against other 'unreasonable' classes and have no place in WvW/PvP at all. (i put those words in quotes because where things stand in terms of power/reason is only relative to how powerful/reasonable other professions are)

    I think the build would still be viable with a slight nerf to the damage %, it doesn't take catching someone unaware to kill them. Ranger also has a lot of mobility when using Greatsword, and has CC and Stealth on the Longbow. It also has a decent amount of defensive options whilst maintaining the damage.

    It's not a separate issue. Can you explain to me how it is a separate issue?
    Rangers that use Sicem do not live in a bubble all alone.
    Rangers skill set will compete and be compared to other classes that can do similar things.

    Why would Ranger need a 'slight nerf' to sic'em?

    Let's look at a few classes that can do what Rangers do
    Mesmers, Warriors and Revenants can all chase a player down

    Mesmers have DMG, Mobility, stealth and defensive options.

    Warriors have mobility, dmg and defensive options

    Revenant doesn't need the greatest defensive options and they can easily chase
    any one down and finish them with very strong power based dmg.

    So that I could understand your perspective, I looked at what class you play and
    it seemed from your posts, your choice of class is druid. Correct me if I am wrong.
    Druid was a favorite of mine too, for quite some time.

    Cute looking toon.

    I personally had many fights on my druid vs a friend who played a GS/LB Soulbeast.
    And although I had a menders druid and could do well vs most classes, that Soulbeast
    would wreck me.

    ps-This post is not rude.
    It is not meant to attack another member or single out a player for ridicule.
    I am not accusing anyone of inappropriate behavior.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Kolisch.4691Kolisch.4691 Member ✭✭

    Sick em should just be made a finishing move. A cat with red eyes comes out and kills the other guy.

  • XenoSpyro.1780XenoSpyro.1780 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lottie.5370 said:
    I think this is a separate issue

    Agreed. Just get rid of "Signet of Might but its for Rangers". Problem solved.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭

    Sic'em is not an issue in wvw.

  • Simonoly.4352Simonoly.4352 Member ✭✭✭

    I usually throw in Quickening Zephyr to quickly mow people down with 22K Rapid Fires. And yes, it is far too much damage but, this is a Soulbeast issue. Sic 'Em! is of course no real issue on base Ranger or Druid.

    I agree that the Soulbeast version of Sic 'Em should provide a lowered damage buff.

  • Acyk.9671Acyk.9671 Member ✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:

    @Lottie.5370 said:
    Then make them viable in zergs, no one is playing this build in a zerg and it's part of the reason people hate rangers in them xD

    Actually people are playing them in zergs. Only they aren't in zergs. They are clouding on the skirts of zergs. The reason they are not in a squad is because they can do what they need to do by themselves and do not need the benefit of all the boons that the zerg itself needs. Druid needs to be reworked to be included in zergs and benefit in squads. I know plenty of commanders that want Soulbeasts to follow them around and even instruct them to focus their ranged attacks on certain enemies or to take out siege that other players cannot reach, except for Ele's with Meteor Shower.

    I don't know where you got that fact. No one wants Ranger around because they don't do anything else than pew pew.
    Druid is the large scale support spec for sure but isn't fit to be in a zerg because it lacks every mandatory utilities and mechanics to be part of a WvW large scale fight, can't get rid of pet and its support is the worst. It's a PvE raid support or LB/Staff havoc support at best.
    Soulbeast on the other hand has access to good unique melee and sharing utilities with stances, decent access to stab/breakstun and damage mitigation but Anet don't want to extend its duellist abilities. It would still suffer from the lack of a good 2nd weapon set beside GS but at least it wouldn't be instakicked if the sharing duration to allies was close to the base stance duration.

  • Invictorum.7643Invictorum.7643 Member ✭✭
    edited April 4, 2019

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    I said it before and got lots of hate thrown at me.
    I'll say it again because I don't really care:
    Should be reworked such that the target takes 10% more damage while under the effects of Sic 'Em.

    Buffs PvE where it'd immediately be one of the best abilities in the game for group damage, and it hard nerfs it in the competitive modes because 10-15k autoattacks is overpowered as hell.

    Are you saying you can get 10-15k auto attacks in PvP?

    For WvW I wanted to test some claims people have made.
    So, I made a fully ascended geared Soulbeast with every stat bonus you could possibly
    get, including food, trying different traits, changing out sigles/runes (for highest crits)
    while using Sicem and Remorseless procs.
    I ran tests and the highest hit I got with the Longbow Auto was 9k(thats with Sicem and the remorseless proc)
    And to be clear, it's virutally impossible to get 2 back to back shots like that.
    I was never able to get anything close to 11-15k
    The most reproducible crit with longbow was in the 6-7k Range.

    Theory crafting doesn't count.
    Go spend the coin
    Post what you find.

    In WvW yes. In PvP, no for obvious reasons. But the sPvP damage is still overdone. 10% to all incoming is still damned strong in PvP for coordinated bursts, anyways considering that's 10% amped damage for everyone. And I'm not the only one asking for more team play who thinks current fire-and-forget on every class is stupid.

    As far as 10-15k autos go, I have. I literally only play soulbeast now when I play. 12k is my max personally., but that's in exotic armor. Similarly, have hit 30k+ rapid fires pretty frequently.
    I theorycrafted 18k max potential AA's but those circumstances never happen so even I don't count them.

    There have been other posters who have posted plenty of screenshots of 12-15k.

    Odds are your build isn't optimizing for damage at all. If you have anything less than 4k power you're doing it wrong. A spec'ed out build with longbow 3->4->1 should be stacking a 3.75x modifier. which takes only a 3k base crit to reach 10k, which is nothing.

    Just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean nobody else has or can when there are tons of examples of people having done so previously.

    I know you theory crafted before you responded. We both replied to a thread where a player was complaining about a Ranger hitting him with lb1 for so much.
    I talked to the Streamer-Ranger Gladomer that did it, I got his build and I was running what he ran.

    "10-15k autoattacks is overpowered as hell",
    Autoattacks, plural--hitting for that much, does not happen back to back.

    In the same thread I mentioned before, I think it bears repeating
    every class in this game has a 'one shot' / 'bear bow' build
    When any class invests that heavily into dmg, there are distinct disadvantages.

    There aren't Zerk Rangers running Rampant in WvW

    I've found that many of the disadvantages that come along with very full frontal damage builds are heavily mitigated by the Soulbeast specialization. The sheer access to so many boons within most builds I've seen, including Protection, regen, and vigor, makes most Soulbeast's take far less damage than a normal marauder/zerker build would be taking. I feel like limiting how much protection uptime there is could work, since any class without a lot of boonrip (Basically anything that isn't Scourge) can try to keep up, but the boon application is through the roof.

    Mind you, I'm speaking from an outside perspective. I don't personally play Soulbest. I usually play Renegade, Deadeye, Every style of Warrior, and a spattering of Engineer. I've been running into Soulbeasts right and left as of late, about as much as other Deadeyes, and Scourges.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    Okay so after reading this thread at work I wanted to try out sicem in wvw. I just used my regular build and swapped moastance with sicem. As a top tier ranger I have to say it ought to be nerfed lol

    It works well even against non stealth classes like warrior. I was dueling a friend of mine on his warrior. Popped sicem after his EP and stab passive was over but didn't do anything fancy cus he's good and I had to manage my rotation carefully. He slips up a little bit, gets hit by my counter attack on GS, and I kid you not it crit him 10k.

    Imagine making 1 mistake and getting hit with the counter attack on GS and 60% of your HP is gone. LOL.

    At first I kinda lacked the boons from moa but I learned to live without it.

    I suggest you either Nerf dmg to 20% or reduce the duration to like 3 seconds. The current duration is just too long. It lasts so long that people can blow their defense after a RF lb combo and you have plenty of time to set up a GS burst and the sicem buff is still on. It's ridiculous.

    Personally I never really had much of an issue with sicem before but I guess that's because 90% of the rangers in wvw are terrible. But I had the same experience in spvp..

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2019

    The damage modifier needs to be toned down without a doubt. The modifier is far to high as was RI guard trait,funny how arenanet catches that but leaves sic em lmao

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    The damage modifier needs to be toned down without a doubt. The modifier is far to high as was RI guard trait,funny how arenanet catches that but leaves sic em lmao

    I agree either nerf the dmg or reduce duration. 2-3 seconds of 40% dmg would be acceptable I think, as someone who tends to run without sicem. At least now they only have 1 rapid fire and a few AAs or a single gs burst. Leave the "revealed" duration at full but reduce dmg buff to 3 seconds.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    The damage modifier needs to be toned down without a doubt. The modifier is far to high as was RI guard trait,funny how arenanet catches that but leaves sic em lmao

    I agree either nerf the dmg or reduce duration. 2-3 seconds of 40% dmg would be acceptable I think, as someone who tends to run without sicem. At least now they only have 1 rapid fire and a few AAs or a single gs burst. Leave the "revealed" duration at full but reduce dmg buff to 3 seconds.

    Do we also reduce the CD or just straight up nerf a utility that only has 1 purpose AND needs a target?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2019

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    The damage modifier needs to be toned down without a doubt. The modifier is far to high as was RI guard trait,funny how arenanet catches that but leaves sic em lmao

    I agree either nerf the dmg or reduce duration. 2-3 seconds of 40% dmg would be acceptable I think, as someone who tends to run without sicem. At least now they only have 1 rapid fire and a few AAs or a single gs burst. Leave the "revealed" duration at full but reduce dmg buff to 3 seconds.

    Do we also reduce the CD or just straight up nerf a utility that only has 1 purpose AND needs a target?

    Target requirement isn't to detrimental to skills like sic em, not like needing a target on teleport etc is, target one opponent any opponent with sic em and once activated u can reap its benefits vs any target. A 25% 6 sec damage buff that synergize with soulbeast skills and other traits the way it does now with reveal on top would be more in line with the game.cd doesnt need reduced.

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    I might've agreed about nerfing Sic 'Em before bunker scrapper was a thing.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2019

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:
    Sic'Em basically turns everything a soulbeast does into burst for 10s, even more so when paired with OWP, which means to counter it you need to be invulnerable for the whole duration, and can't even rely on blocks, reflects or stealth for the most part. Combined with the overall strong package of ranger/sb, it is far from balanced and certainly not necessary in order to kill other players. If players wouldn't waste their skills so often it would be a guaranteed kill against almost anything. Luckily most rangers in WvW are terrible at playing this game, which is the only thing that makes it somewhat bareable.

    Unblockable doesn't last a full 10 seconds.
    Reflects still Reflect
    Stealth- Cant hit what you cant see
    Evades/Dodges still work
    Invulns
    Line of sight

    there are 2 sic'm builds:
    1) longbow + greatsword
    2) longbow + axe/horn

    unstoppable union: 4 sec unblockable 10 seconds cooldown
    call of the wild: 4 sec unblockable

    oh noes 2 seconds without unblockable
    2 seconds later, merge again, 4 seconds unblokcable

    reflecting unblockable???
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable
    "Unblockable is a property of attack skills which prevents the attack from being blocked, and in case of ranged attacks, reflected or otherwise destroyed by effects of skills."

    stealth? we are talking about sic'm, which has revealed on 2000 range. how do you plan on stealthing? unless you are a deadeye and use 1 specific elite skill

    ye, ranger main detected that needs this cheese to win

    and regarding the 15k autos, that's easy to do. build up might, merge with ferocious pet, use greatword 2(+50% dmg) swap to longbow use sic'em (+40% dmg) with a full zerker build that uses marksmanship/beastmaster/soulbeast.

    lets list all the dmg modifiers this zerk ranger has

    1) opening strike +25% dmg (remorseless trait)
    2) farsighted +10% dmg
    3) loud whistle +10% dmg
    4) furious strenght +7% dmg
    5) oppressive superiority +10% dmg
    6) sic'm + 40% dmg
    7) attack of oportunity (gs 2 precast) +50% dmg

    ^ that is what gives the 15k autos, that are unblockable, and allways crit out of nowhere

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @jcbroe.4329 said:
    These threads are just so exhausting now.

    Look, I get it, being "pew pew'd" is annoying.
    So are the Firebrand boon and support spam overlords.
    So are the Scourge massive spam of AoEs; that when stacked create a sea of cancer.
    So is the Spellbreaker Rampage faceroll dodge perfectly or die fights with extra sustain to boot.
    So is the Chrono phantasm/clone visual cancer.
    So are the Mirages spamming target drops.
    So are the Heralds rolling their face into offhand sword and oneshotting you.
    So are the Scrappers forehead smashing their keyboard and winning.
    So is the pressure/CC and visual spam of Holos.
    Even Weaver is obnoxiously overtuned but it's hard to complain about with everything else on the list.

    Let's face it, PvP and WvW have been hot garbage since PoF. Powercreep was already massive in HoT and in need of further culling before PoF was tossed on top of it.

    So I get the complaints, I really do. I can't say I'm inclined to disagree.
    But seriously, going after individual classes is just whack-a-mole'ing the cancer of this game away one biased complaint at a time.

    Well we gotta start somewhere don't we?
    You're saying "it's all kitten up, so let's not change anything"?????? What?????

    Sicem is a toxic skill. Ppl complain about 1shots cus it's not fun to play against just like mirage and chrono. How about we actually suggest changing it then?

    Sicem isn't something ranger needs to stay competitive. I've been doing fine with my builds before I started slotting sicem for the lulz. So if it's just a lulz build then why are we defending it?

    Yea, scrapper and FB needs nerfs to their sustain too but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about a skill that lets ppl 100-0 ppl from 1500+ range away with hardly any defense other than spending all your dodges or using invulnerability because unblockable and revealed.

    And this is coming from a ranger main.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    The damage modifier needs to be toned down without a doubt. The modifier is far to high as was RI guard trait,funny how arenanet catches that but leaves sic em lmao

    I agree either nerf the dmg or reduce duration. 2-3 seconds of 40% dmg would be acceptable I think, as someone who tends to run without sicem. At least now they only have 1 rapid fire and a few AAs or a single gs burst. Leave the "revealed" duration at full but reduce dmg buff to 3 seconds.

    Do we also reduce the CD or just straight up nerf a utility that only has 1 purpose AND needs a target?

    If you can do fine without a skill that lets you instagib ppl from 1500+ range away then it ought to be nerfed.

  • oOStaticOo.9467oOStaticOo.9467 Member ✭✭✭

    What is with people who hate Ranger, using a Ranger icon to come into the Ranger forums and bash Rangers?? You think it gives you more credibility in doing so? You think it lends more weight to your arguments? So funny.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ppl who think this doesn't need to be nerfed are abusing it lol. its so obvious.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • oOStaticOo.9467oOStaticOo.9467 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    ppl who think this doesn't need to be nerfed are abusing it lol. its so obvious.

    There are far worse offenders out there than Sic'Em. And people who deny that, are abusing those. LOL. It's so obvious.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    ppl who think this doesn't need to be nerfed are abusing it lol. its so obvious.

    There are far worse offenders out there than Sic'Em. And people who deny that, are abusing those. LOL. It's so obvious.

    nice one bro. its not a contest, garbo is garbo.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2019

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    What is with people who hate Ranger, using a Ranger icon to come into the Ranger forums and bash Rangers?? You think it gives you more credibility in doing so? You think it lends more weight to your arguments? So funny.

    I main ranger since I started in 2012. Stop projecting lol. And for that exact reason, yea, yea I do think it gives my argument more weight.

    Sicem is pretty broken. Especially in wvw where you can have both good sustain with boons/rotation and deal massive 1hit dmg with sicem cus you can run full zerker.

    My next YT vid is legit gonna be called "Sicem isn't broken"
    And a bunch of clips where I get ppl anywhere from 70-100 down to 0 with a single weapon skill. Over the weekend I've already recorded like 4-5 of them.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    What is with people who hate Ranger, using a Ranger icon to come into the Ranger forums and bash Rangers?? You think it gives you more credibility in doing so? You think it lends more weight to your arguments? So funny.

    I main ranger since I started in 2012. Stop projecting lol. And for that exact reason, yea, yea I do think it gives my argument more weight.

    Sicem is pretty broken. Especially in wvw where you can have both good sustain with boons/rotation and deal massive 1hit dmg with sicem cus you can run full zerker.

    My next YT vid is legit gonna be called "Sicem isn't broken"
    And a bunch of clips where I get ppl anywhere from 70-100 down to 0 with a single weapon skill. Over the weekend I've already recorded like 4-5 of them.

    You are right but..outside the unholy sniping , the class is pretty useless in the whole gamemode, indeed the utility is even used by borderline useful sniping builds around your main zerg, I am all for nerfing sic em but can this class receive some sort of aoe affect given that all other class ( save warrior maybe and they still have spellbreaker for melee trains ) have a relevant zerg build?

    Ranger is excellent for roaming and small scale fights but yea aoe would be nice. You don't need to be all-in 1shot to do well with it while roaming.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    you repeat yourself quite a lot. Just so you can get the idea the game is not designed to provide dumb weakness and artificial limitations to classes . Your mantra of nerfing soulbeast just for the sake of it is ridiculous.

    No other class in game has the limitations or how you call them weakness because it does not fit with the game itself. This game is not WoW with their rigid class system, so stop pushing your agenda to make it so.

    Sic'em doesnt need to be nerfed, the increased damage in wvw is a 25% for 6 seconds. The core utilities don't need no nerf, it needs buffing. Ranger still keeps outdated skills and mechanics which has been nerfed and never balanced again for a fun gameplay.

    What is should be looked upon is the soulbeast itself and make sure damage the extra damage isnt applied when the foes are over 600 units away. As general design it seems the soulbeast was designed with this burst damage in mind but more melee oriented.

    But for that the trait line should be redesigned so the traits reinforce that gameplay.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lottie.5370 said:
    The current skill gives a 40% damage and movement boost for 8 seconds, with a 35 second recharge (28s when traited, also providing swiftness and regen). It also has 2000 range and applies revealed.

    I don't really see a problem with this skill in PvE, it gives Soulbeast a huge damage boost that is needed for it to compete with other roles damage-wise.

    In PvP and WvW however, I feel like it is too high of a damage buff. I can sit on top of a hill somewhere, see someone running about below: merge with pet, "Sic 'Em!" and Longbow 2 and that guy is dead. The whole thing is unblockable. I've been able to down squishier classes with just "Sic 'Em!" and one longbow auto, doing over 15k dmg. Because of the movement speed, it's also pretty hard to outrun.

    Suggestion: Reduce the damage and movement buff in PvP and WvW to 20% or 30%. I think the duration/recharge is fine, however the range also seems a bit too high and should be scaled down to 1500 or 1200.

    How do you guys feel about this skill at the moment? Do you find the revealed mechanic useful?

    I don't think it's the biggest problem with Ranger, but I don't think it's particularly fun to play as, or against. I was surprised to see boonbeast nerfs in the patch and having this staying untouched.

    It actually needs Sic Em the way it is now. Ever try to play a Ranger in wvw/pvp without Sic Em? It doesn't work and it ends up being so weak that it can't even down moderately good Necros while freecasting because that's how much power creep there is in everything right now. Also, if you dodge roll or block or LOS and wait out the 10s of Sic Em, then the Ranger is on a 32s CD before being able to use it again, and then his damage sucks and he is as squishy as a glass cannon Ele.

    It's good to distinguish between what is "Overpowered" and what is "Annoying" because there is a difference. A great example was the recent Deadeye. Nothing pissed people off more than dying in 1-2 hits from an opponent they didn't see coming. Eventually so many people complained about "How strong it is" that it got nerfed into the ground. But the truth is that Deadeye saw absolutely no representation in Monthly Automated Tournament wins even before the nerf, and only 2 people in NA were even capable of playing it past a plat 1 level. Deadeye, for all of that aggravation it puts on that 1 person it targets, always sucked and was too easy to kill in small skirmish situations. DE has also always been bad in 1v1s vs. anyone who is smart enough to use terrain for LOSing.

    My point being is: Be careful what you cry nerf over. Asking for "Changes or alterations" is one thing, but everyone at this point needs to be REAL SURE something is actually overpowered before they ask for straight chops to attributes, otherwise we're gonna end up with a game where only 3 classes out of 9 are even playable in competitive settings.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Lottie.5370 said:
    The current skill gives a 40% damage and movement boost for 8 seconds, with a 35 second recharge (28s when traited, also providing swiftness and regen). It also has 2000 range and applies revealed.

    I don't really see a problem with this skill in PvE, it gives Soulbeast a huge damage boost that is needed for it to compete with other roles damage-wise.

    In PvP and WvW however, I feel like it is too high of a damage buff. I can sit on top of a hill somewhere, see someone running about below: merge with pet, "Sic 'Em!" and Longbow 2 and that guy is dead. The whole thing is unblockable. I've been able to down squishier classes with just "Sic 'Em!" and one longbow auto, doing over 15k dmg. Because of the movement speed, it's also pretty hard to outrun.

    Suggestion: Reduce the damage and movement buff in PvP and WvW to 20% or 30%. I think the duration/recharge is fine, however the range also seems a bit too high and should be scaled down to 1500 or 1200.

    How do you guys feel about this skill at the moment? Do you find the revealed mechanic useful?

    I don't think it's the biggest problem with Ranger, but I don't think it's particularly fun to play as, or against. I was surprised to see boonbeast nerfs in the patch and having this staying untouched.

    It actually needs Sic Em the way it is now. Ever try to play a Ranger in wvw/pvp without Sic Em? It doesn't work and it ends up being so weak that it can't even down moderately good Necros while freecasting because that's how much power creep there is in everything right now. Also, if you dodge roll or block or LOS and wait out the 10s of Sic Em, then the Ranger is on a 32s CD before being able to use it again, and then his damage sucks and he is as squishy as a glass cannon Ele.

    It's good to distinguish between what is "Overpowered" and what is "Annoying" because there is a difference. A great example was the recent Deadeye. Nothing pissed people off more than dying in 1-2 hits from an opponent they didn't see coming. Eventually so many people complained about "How strong it is" that it got nerfed into the ground. But the truth is that Deadeye saw absolutely no representation in Monthly Automated Tournament wins even before the nerf, and only 2 people in NA were even capable of playing it past a plat 1 level. Deadeye, for all of that aggravation it puts on that 1 person it targets, always sucked and was too easy to kill in small skirmish situations. DE has also always been bad in 1v1s vs. anyone who is smart enough to use terrain for LOSing.

    My point being is: Be careful what you cry nerf over. Asking for "Changes or alterations" is one thing, but everyone at this point needs to be REAL SURE something is actually overpowered before they ask for straight chops to attributes, otherwise we're gonna end up with a game where only 3 classes out of 9 are even playable in competitive settings.

    LOL wrong. I play soulbeast without sicem all the time I only recently swapped to it to try it for lulz. Soulbeast has plenty of single target dmg. Plenty! You don't need that skill to kill people. If you do, you have just gotten carried by a one trick mechanic lol.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037

    I'm talking about when you're actually running DPS Soulbeast instead of Boonbeast. Boonbeast can still kill over the course of time because it has the sustain to do it. DPS Soulbeast setups without Sic Em however, without all that sustain from Boonbeast setups, are not capable of the type of damage output they need to drop something like a Spellbreaker or Herald before it gets to them and creates a damage/sustain/mobility vs. damage/sustain/mobility bully situation. They also need reveal granted from Sic Em.

    Seems like people are forgetting that before Soulbeast showed up, allowing Sic Em to work on the Ranger during merge, LB/GS setups were in no way viable whatsoever, and were widely considered to be as weak as Renegade is now.

    ^ Consider this

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    you repeat yourself quite a lot. Just so you can get the idea the game is not designed to provide dumb weakness and artificial limitations to classes . Your mantra of nerfing soulbeast just for the sake of it is ridiculous.

    No other class in game has the limitations or how you call them weakness because it does not fit with the game itself. This game is not WoW with their rigid class system, so stop pushing your agenda to make it so.

    Sic'em doesnt need to be nerfed, the increased damage in wvw is a 25% for 6 seconds. The core utilities don't need no nerf, it needs buffing. Ranger still keeps outdated skills and mechanics which has been nerfed and never balanced again for a fun gameplay.

    What is should be looked upon is the soulbeast itself and make sure damage the extra damage isnt applied when the foes are over 600 units away. As general design it seems the soulbeast was designed with this burst damage in mind but more melee oriented.

    But for that the trait line should be redesigned so the traits reinforce that gameplay.

    You are wrong. It clearly says 40% dmg increase, and the dmg buff lasts for 10 WHOLE SECONDs. The reveal effect is what lasts 6 seconds.
    Seriously. If you can't play an entire class without sicem, you are just not a good ranger in the first place. I've been playing for so many years without using it. I use it for lulz dmg, but when I want to duel people I swap it out with either QZ or protect me.

    This means that sicem isn't necessarily OP in all scenarios cus it's not the end all and be all, but it is "broken" in the sense that it's really unhealthy for the game. 1shots aren't really funny for everyone else except the ranger himself.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @bigo.9037

    I'm talking about when you're actually running DPS Soulbeast instead of Boonbeast. Boonbeast can still kill over the course of time because it has the sustain to do it. DPS Soulbeast setups without Sic Em however, without all that sustain from Boonbeast setups, are not capable of the type of damage output they need to drop something like a Spellbreaker or Herald before it gets to them and creates a damage/sustain/mobility vs. damage/sustain/mobility bully situation. They also need reveal granted from Sic Em.

    Seems like people are forgetting that before Soulbeast showed up, allowing Sic Em to work on the Ranger during merge, LB/GS setups were in no way viable whatsoever, and were widely considered to be as weak as Renegade is now.

    ^ Consider this

    What context are you talking about? You say dps do you mean havoc? Zerg? Roaming?
    I'm talking about roaming. No I'm not running boonbeast although I do use moastance. I run gs/lb and full zerk/ assassins. Basically full dmg spec. And I have no issues.

  • Sic Em s a bad skill because it compounds the bulk of a Ranger's damage into something with a longer cooldown. It'd be better just to give a soulbeast 20% more damage while merged. This would benefit all game modes as well.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kain Francois.4328 said:
    Sic Em s a bad skill because it compounds the bulk of a Ranger's damage into something with a longer cooldown. It'd be better just to give a soulbeast 20% more damage while merged. This would benefit all game modes as well.

    You guys are absolutely nuts. In wvw / pvp context soulbeast would be completely broken with this kind of buff. You don't need that dmg. You also don't need sicem to kill people. Jesus..
    If you're just talking pve, then please specify..

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said
    Seems like people are forgetting that before Soulbeast showed up, allowing Sic Em to work on the Ranger during merge, LB/GS setups were in no way viable whatsoever, and were widely considered to be as weak as Renegade is now.

    ^ Consider this

    what I consider the issue to be with rangers, is that the ranger's actual damage is subpar, and a good deal of total damage potential comes from the pet. That, and traits that grant the pet absurd boosts. Add on top soulbeast merge, and suddenly the ranger itself becomes overpowered when effects meant for a mediocre companion affect now a competent player.

    The current damage modifiers would never had been so high if ANet had foreseen the design of soulbeast.

    Because of this I'd say ranger is the class with the highest need of a rework. increase ranger weapon damage, increase pet stats/attack speed (and allow them to reliably stick to moving targets), and lower trait/skill damage modifiers to be on par with other classes.

    may not be enough for balance, but would be a good start.

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