[Discussion/Suggestion] The state of "Sic 'Em!" in PvP and WvW. - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Discussion/Suggestion] The state of "Sic 'Em!" in PvP and WvW.

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  • DuckDuckBOOM.4097DuckDuckBOOM.4097 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    you repeat yourself quite a lot. Just so you can get the idea the game is not designed to provide dumb weakness and artificial limitations to classes . Your mantra of nerfing soulbeast just for the sake of it is ridiculous.

    No other class in game has the limitations or how you call them weakness because it does not fit with the game itself. This game is not WoW with their rigid class system, so stop pushing your agenda to make it so.

    Sic'em doesnt need to be nerfed, the increased damage in wvw is a 25% for 6 seconds. The core utilities don't need no nerf, it needs buffing. Ranger still keeps outdated skills and mechanics which has been nerfed and never balanced again for a fun gameplay.

    What is should be looked upon is the soulbeast itself and make sure damage the extra damage isnt applied when the foes are over 600 units away. As general design it seems the soulbeast was designed with this burst damage in mind but more melee oriented.

    But for that the trait line should be redesigned so the traits reinforce that gameplay.

    You are wrong. It clearly says 40% dmg increase, and the dmg buff lasts for 10 WHOLE SECONDs. The reveal effect is what lasts 6 seconds.
    Seriously. If you can't play an entire class without sicem, you are just not a good ranger in the first place. I've been playing for so many years without using it. I use it for lulz dmg, but when I want to duel people I swap it out with either QZ or protect me.

    This means that sicem isn't necessarily OP in all scenarios cus it's not the end all and be all, but it is "broken" in the sense that it's really unhealthy for the game. 1shots aren't really funny for everyone else except the ranger himself.

    I really don't get why some people keep getting this wrong. That wrong 25% number has been floating around for too long. It's so easy to test that it's 40% in WvW. Walk up to NPC. Hit LB2, hit sic'em half way through. Factor in vulnerability and it's easy to tell sic'em is a 40% buff on the following hits from lb 2.

    I would total be fine with a PvE split with WvW/PvP where sic'em is only 25% in PvP/WvW. Maybe split the duration and CD to both be shorter. I'm thinking of the endure pain PvP split. 2 second 30 sec CD in PvP vs 4 second 60 second CD in WvW.

    @jcbroe.4329 said:
    These threads are just so exhausting now.

    Look, I get it, being "pew pew'd" is annoying.
    So are the Firebrand boon and support spam overlords.
    So are the Scourge massive spam of AoEs; that when stacked create a sea of cancer.
    So is the Spellbreaker Rampage faceroll dodge perfectly or die fights with extra sustain to boot.
    So is the Chrono phantasm/clone visual cancer.
    So are the Mirages spamming target drops.
    So are the Heralds rolling their face into offhand sword and oneshotting you.
    So are the Scrappers forehead smashing their keyboard and winning.
    So is the pressure/CC and visual spam of Holos.
    Even Weaver is obnoxiously overtuned but it's hard to complain about with everything else on the list.

    Let's face it, PvP and WvW have been hot garbage since PoF. Powercreep was already massive in HoT and in need of further culling before PoF was tossed on top of it.

    So I get the complaints, I really do. I can't say I'm inclined to disagree.
    But seriously, going after individual classes is just whack-a-mole'ing the cancer of this game away one biased complaint at a time.

    Personally, I see it as less going after individual classes and more looking at your own class and deciding what is a reasonable nerf instead of what breaks the fun/play style of the class. Ideally everyone is able to do that for their own class. This makes it less whack a mole and more reduced power creep across all classes. Reducing sic'em to 25-20% in WvW/PvP wouldn't change the overall class or how fun it is for me to play.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    you repeat yourself quite a lot. Just so you can get the idea the game is not designed to provide dumb weakness and artificial limitations to classes . Your mantra of nerfing soulbeast just for the sake of it is ridiculous.

    No other class in game has the limitations or how you call them weakness because it does not fit with the game itself. This game is not WoW with their rigid class system, so stop pushing your agenda to make it so.

    Sic'em doesnt need to be nerfed, the increased damage in wvw is a 25% for 6 seconds. The core utilities don't need no nerf, it needs buffing. Ranger still keeps outdated skills and mechanics which has been nerfed and never balanced again for a fun gameplay.

    What is should be looked upon is the soulbeast itself and make sure damage the extra damage isnt applied when the foes are over 600 units away. As general design it seems the soulbeast was designed with this burst damage in mind but more melee oriented.

    But for that the trait line should be redesigned so the traits reinforce that gameplay.

    You are wrong. It clearly says 40% dmg increase, and the dmg buff lasts for 10 WHOLE SECONDs. The reveal effect is what lasts 6 seconds.
    Seriously. If you can't play an entire class without sicem, you are just not a good ranger in the first place. I've been playing for so many years without using it. I use it for lulz dmg, but when I want to duel people I swap it out with either QZ or protect me.

    This means that sicem isn't necessarily OP in all scenarios cus it's not the end all and be all, but it is "broken" in the sense that it's really unhealthy for the game. 1shots aren't really funny for everyone else except the ranger himself.

    I really don't get why some people keep getting this wrong. That wrong 25% number has been floating around for too long. It's so easy to test that it's 40% in WvW. Walk up to NPC. Hit LB2, hit sic'em half way through. Factor in vulnerability and it's easy to tell sic'em is a 40% buff on the following hits from lb 2.

    I would total be fine with a PvE split with WvW/PvP where sic'em is only 25% in PvP/WvW. Maybe split the duration and CD to both be shorter. I'm thinking of the endure pain PvP split. 2 second 30 sec CD in PvP vs 4 second 60 second CD in WvW.

    @jcbroe.4329 said:
    These threads are just so exhausting now.

    Look, I get it, being "pew pew'd" is annoying.
    So are the Firebrand boon and support spam overlords.
    So are the Scourge massive spam of AoEs; that when stacked create a sea of cancer.
    So is the Spellbreaker Rampage faceroll dodge perfectly or die fights with extra sustain to boot.
    So is the Chrono phantasm/clone visual cancer.
    So are the Mirages spamming target drops.
    So are the Heralds rolling their face into offhand sword and oneshotting you.
    So are the Scrappers forehead smashing their keyboard and winning.
    So is the pressure/CC and visual spam of Holos.
    Even Weaver is obnoxiously overtuned but it's hard to complain about with everything else on the list.

    Let's face it, PvP and WvW have been hot garbage since PoF. Powercreep was already massive in HoT and in need of further culling before PoF was tossed on top of it.

    So I get the complaints, I really do. I can't say I'm inclined to disagree.
    But seriously, going after individual classes is just whack-a-mole'ing the cancer of this game away one biased complaint at a time.

    Personally, I see it as less going after individual classes and more looking at your own class and deciding what is a reasonable nerf instead of what breaks the fun/play style of the class. Ideally everyone is able to do that for their own class. This makes it less whack a mole and more reduced power creep across all classes. Reducing sic'em to 25-20% in WvW/PvP wouldn't change the overall class or how fun it is for me to play.

    Exactly man. 1+. Like I said before, sicem isn't a skill all ranger builds NEED. It's just 1 of many viable tools. Soulbeast is lucky it has at least 1 utility slot where you can pick about 4 different things and make it work. One of those 4 being sicem.

    As much fun as I've had this weekend 1hitting ppl after slotting in sicem, it's just not healthy for the game overall. It's a bad and toxic gimmick. I mean it even happened to me once! I laughed it off, but if I got 1hit by RF every time I saw a ranger, not being able to use stealth, not being able to use blocks.. I'd be pretty pissed off.
    The fact that the skill isn't even a must for the build just gives anet all the more reason to nerf it.

  • jcbroe.4329jcbroe.4329 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    you repeat yourself quite a lot. Just so you can get the idea the game is not designed to provide dumb weakness and artificial limitations to classes . Your mantra of nerfing soulbeast just for the sake of it is ridiculous.

    No other class in game has the limitations or how you call them weakness because it does not fit with the game itself. This game is not WoW with their rigid class system, so stop pushing your agenda to make it so.

    Sic'em doesnt need to be nerfed, the increased damage in wvw is a 25% for 6 seconds. The core utilities don't need no nerf, it needs buffing. Ranger still keeps outdated skills and mechanics which has been nerfed and never balanced again for a fun gameplay.

    What is should be looked upon is the soulbeast itself and make sure damage the extra damage isnt applied when the foes are over 600 units away. As general design it seems the soulbeast was designed with this burst damage in mind but more melee oriented.

    But for that the trait line should be redesigned so the traits reinforce that gameplay.

    You are wrong. It clearly says 40% dmg increase, and the dmg buff lasts for 10 WHOLE SECONDs. The reveal effect is what lasts 6 seconds.
    Seriously. If you can't play an entire class without sicem, you are just not a good ranger in the first place. I've been playing for so many years without using it. I use it for lulz dmg, but when I want to duel people I swap it out with either QZ or protect me.

    This means that sicem isn't necessarily OP in all scenarios cus it's not the end all and be all, but it is "broken" in the sense that it's really unhealthy for the game. 1shots aren't really funny for everyone else except the ranger himself.

    I really don't get why some people keep getting this wrong. That wrong 25% number has been floating around for too long. It's so easy to test that it's 40% in WvW. Walk up to NPC. Hit LB2, hit sic'em half way through. Factor in vulnerability and it's easy to tell sic'em is a 40% buff on the following hits from lb 2.

    I would total be fine with a PvE split with WvW/PvP where sic'em is only 25% in PvP/WvW. Maybe split the duration and CD to both be shorter. I'm thinking of the endure pain PvP split. 2 second 30 sec CD in PvP vs 4 second 60 second CD in WvW.

    @jcbroe.4329 said:
    These threads are just so exhausting now.

    Look, I get it, being "pew pew'd" is annoying.
    So are the Firebrand boon and support spam overlords.
    So are the Scourge massive spam of AoEs; that when stacked create a sea of cancer.
    So is the Spellbreaker Rampage faceroll dodge perfectly or die fights with extra sustain to boot.
    So is the Chrono phantasm/clone visual cancer.
    So are the Mirages spamming target drops.
    So are the Heralds rolling their face into offhand sword and oneshotting you.
    So are the Scrappers forehead smashing their keyboard and winning.
    So is the pressure/CC and visual spam of Holos.
    Even Weaver is obnoxiously overtuned but it's hard to complain about with everything else on the list.

    Let's face it, PvP and WvW have been hot garbage since PoF. Powercreep was already massive in HoT and in need of further culling before PoF was tossed on top of it.

    So I get the complaints, I really do. I can't say I'm inclined to disagree.
    But seriously, going after individual classes is just whack-a-mole'ing the cancer of this game away one biased complaint at a time.

    Personally, I see it as less going after individual classes and more looking at your own class and deciding what is a reasonable nerf instead of what breaks the fun/play style of the class. Ideally everyone is able to do that for their own class. This makes it less whack a mole and more reduced power creep across all classes. Reducing sic'em to 25-20% in WvW/PvP wouldn't change the overall class or how fun it is for me to play.

    Exactly man. 1+. Like I said before, sicem isn't a skill all ranger builds NEED. It's just 1 of many viable tools. Soulbeast is lucky it has at least 1 utility slot where you can pick about 4 different things and make it work. One of those 4 being sicem.

    As much fun as I've had this weekend 1hitting ppl after slotting in sicem, it's just not healthy for the game overall. It's a bad and toxic gimmick. I mean it even happened to me once! I laughed it off, but if I got 1hit by RF every time I saw a ranger, not being able to use stealth, not being able to use blocks.. I'd be pretty pissed off.
    The fact that the skill isn't even a must for the build just gives anet all the more reason to nerf it.

    I obviously don't disagree with nerfing it. I said as much in my original post you both quoted (this'll tag Duck, responding to him too).

    It wasn't for the people who are having an objective discussion, it was for the people who have a long posting history of making outrageous power claims about ranger and suggest outrageous nerfs or bandwagon on any nerf thread that gains traction because they have a biased dislike for the class.

    This isn't really a thread or forum that they can be called out in either without repercussions, but you'll recognize them if you jump into any ranger targeted balance discussion that's calling for nerfs.

    Just as it's important to identify the objective and valuable contributions and discussions, it's equally important to identify the people or contributions that troll or skew the discussion.

    Me personally? I don't prefer the Sic Em build, although I acknowledge it's power. It's a strong utility skill that's too one dimensional and sacrifices a slot where defensive utilities are much stronger on Ranger in those slots. If I could keep the 3 slots and slot Sic Em on the elite, than yeah I'd run it, otherwise it gets crowded off my bar for other skills.

    Jroh | Former SOAC Ranger Podcaster | Top 100 PvP
    https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat
    www.twitch.tv/itsJROH

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    I've been playing alot of cheddar cheese beast in wvw to counter other cheese beasts lately and have some thoughts

    1)Ain't gunna lie it's fun as hell even if the rotation and skill is boring. You can finally be useful in picking out targets like an actual bowman. And I've had a crazy amount of fun of supprising enemies by running in like a Highlander and cleaving everything. Im pretty torn on nerfs one hand it's OP and sucks to be on the receiving end, especially if you don't have your anti ranger; On the other wow it's great to finally pick of targets especially since melee is super dangerous in wvw.

    2) unstoppable union for 4 seconds is pretty OP, I personally think it should only be 1 or next weapon damage packet in wvw only so you have to actually have to think hmm do I cc or stealth ect. If you get CCd during this time well you lost your chance, it gives counterplay when people see a merge occur.

    3) I know, I know, but I think a good Nerf would be that sic em only worked on melee in wvw only. You can still do really good range damage especially with one wolf, but the melee with sic em actually gives ranger some great cleave. Make it high risk high reward

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eleazar.9478 said:

    I've been playing alot of cheddar cheese beast in wvw to counter other cheese beasts lately and have some thoughts

    1)Ain't gunna lie it's fun as hell even if the rotation and skill is boring. You can finally be useful in picking out targets like an actual bowman. And I've had a crazy amount of fun of supprising enemies by running in like a Highlander and cleaving everything. Im pretty torn on nerfs one hand it's OP and sucks to be on the receiving end, especially if you don't have your anti ranger; On the other wow it's great to finally pick of targets especially since melee is super dangerous in wvw.

    2) unstoppable union for 4 seconds is pretty OP, I personally think it should only be 1 or next weapon damage packet in wvw only so you have to actually have to think hmm do I cc or stealth ect. If you get CCd during this time well you lost your chance, it gives counterplay when people see a merge occur.

    3) I know, I know, but I think a good Nerf would be that sic em only worked on melee in wvw only. You can still do really good range damage especially with one wolf, but the melee with sic em actually gives ranger some great cleave. Make it high risk high reward

    Overall agree yea. However, ranger has multiple hard hitting melee skills that you can use in stealth. Even if sicem was only melee, and honestly I already tend to only use it in melee already, it's still too much dmg. Enemies have to spend 2 dodges cus they can't block both maul and WI.

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    I can go full dps and have people face tank my damage in pvp without sic em. That's completely ridiculous. Sic em means that for 10s on one target I can actually do enough dmg they have to react. All of my dmg can be mitigated by line of sighting, or even body blocking.

    There are sooo many ways to counter sic em. I get that it's annoying but without it I think we'd have a lot less build diversity in PvP and would be forced into roles we are even more subpar at.

    See in pvp its totally fine for a few reasons
    1) The amount of area and terrain, allows for the target to break line of site easier and counter

    2) A scholar zerk soulbeast merged with power pet in PVP can only reach 2.7k power, with 250% ferocity and only 55% crit chance While a wvw Ranger with dps loadout can reach 3.1kish 255% ferocity and 65% crit chance (with cheap power food and that's not even with blood lust stacks or full infusions or major bloodlust or tower buffs. My rapid fires go from 15k damage to 32k damage on glass targets lol thats players health pools twice over! and for 10 seconds! Unblockable! for 4 of em! thats pretty nutty

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    Overall agree yea. However, ranger has multiple hard hitting melee skills that you can use in stealth. Even if sicem was only melee, and honestly I already tend to only use it in melee already, it's still too much dmg. Enemies have to spend 2 dodges cus they can't block both maul and WI.

    See if they nerfed the unblockable duration, they wouldn't, also being melee skills you can also position out of range,
    Personally, I'm all for melee big numbers (zerk necro, and dh can get 20-30k bursts easy with proper rotations with way less tells), as melee is already too dangerous due to necros, warriors, and guards. If you cant burst hard in melee your gunna get run over. although I would be all for WI to hit wider 360 but with less damage (make it real cleave) and would want them to cement soul beast as an-your-face frontliner

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    Personally, I've never had any problems playing against this build ranger with most professions, before wvw warclaw was implemented with necro I had problems, now no more.
    The fact that sickem within the build for someone may be an option and for others an obligation does not justify a nerf. The build has weaknesses, has counters and does not allow rangers to do things that other classes cannot do. It looks like another post made by people asking for nerf for something they don't like to play against.

  • UmbraNoctis.1907UmbraNoctis.1907 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 10, 2019

    Most ranger players in WvW are absolutely terrible and have no clue about how to properly build and play the class. Being able to kill players like this is hardly meaningful.
    Sic'Em provides ridiculous burst for builds that also have access to unblockable, reveal, huge range, high mobility, evades, block, stealth, blind, cc, stab, prot + additional dmg reduction, decent healing, condi clear, ... So what weakness is there?
    Yes, other classes have some broken stuff too, which should get adressed obviously. I can also see how Sic'Em might not be as bad in sPvP. But there is nothing that justifies it in it's current state in WvW and if the powercreep gets toned down eventually, it should be one of the first things to target.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    Just an FYI, skills can be split. We've seen it done. That's easily done with numbers. How could sic em be changed for wvw but still be effective for PvP?

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:
    Most ranger players in WvW are absolutely terrible and have no clue about how to properly build and play the class. Being able to kill players like this is hardly meaningful.
    Sic'Em provides ridiculous burst for builds that also have access to unblockable, reveal, huge range, high mobility, evades, block, stealth, blind, cc, stab, prot + additional dmg reduction, decent healing, condi clear, ... So what weakness is there?
    Yes, other classes have some broken stuff too, which should get adressed obviously. I can also see how Sic'Em might not be as bad in sPvP. But there is nothing that justifies it in it's current state in WvW and if the powercreep gets toned down eventually, it should be one of the first things to target.

    Part of the damage multipliers that the ranger uses to obtain large bursts are present in MM and not in WS, this means that the build does not have conditions clean.
    If you use MM instead of WS you have damage and 0 sustain. If you use WS instead, you have sustain and clean condition but less damage, potentially it can have everything but not in the same build.
    However, every build has to evade, great damage, blockages and not to forget my favorite https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chapter_3:_Valiant_Bulwark
    and with the implementation of Warclaw in game it is no longer possible to kill unprepared people as the mount allows you to conquer targets, from an additional 10k hp and 3 dodges to force the ranger to fight melee range.
    it's an annoying build because you have to pay attention to it, but defining it as OP is exaggerated.

  • UmbraNoctis.1907UmbraNoctis.1907 Member ✭✭✭

    BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.
    Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:
    BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.
    Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

    I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

    It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

  • UmbraNoctis.1907UmbraNoctis.1907 Member ✭✭✭

    Cleansing Sigil, Signet of Renewal, Brown Bear, Jacaranda, some runes ...
    Wouldn't recommend to run those things except from the sigil and maybe the signet though. Which should be enough in most cases.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 10, 2019

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:
    BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.
    Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

    I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

    It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

    I have been able to 1 hit necros while running WS while using sicem. Or rather, scourges.

    And revenants.. and holos :)

    The worst part is you can perfectly time both your pet swap for quickness.. merge to beastmode for unblockable..
    Pop sicem.. and if you don't have stability you're basically dead in the blink of an eye unless you have lots of armor and protection.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 10, 2019

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:
    BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.
    Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

    I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

    It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

    I have been able to 1 hit necros while running WS while using sicem. Or rather, scourges.

    And revenants.. and holos :)

    The worst part is you can perfectly time both your pet swap for quickness.. merge to beastmode for unblockable..
    Pop sicem.. and if you don't have stability you're basically dead in the blink of an eye unless you have lots of armor and protection.

    A Power Herald in its rotation has the necessary to eliminate a ranger with simplicity, using Infuse Light is able to completely absorb the damage of the ranger at that point it will be enough to use Phase Traversal and the ranger will die. Or look at the numbers a rev is able to do with CoR without anything with a 4 second CD, and maybe you will realize that there is no such difference of damage but only bad players and good players.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:
    BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.
    Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

    I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

    It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

    I have been able to 1 hit necros while running WS while using sicem. Or rather, scourges.

    And revenants.. and holos :)

    The worst part is you can perfectly time both your pet swap for quickness.. merge to beastmode for unblockable..
    Pop sicem.. and if you don't have stability you're basically dead in the blink of an eye unless you have lots of armor and protection.

    A Power Herald in its rotation has the necessary to eliminate a ranger with simplicity, using Infuse Light is able to completely absorb the damage of the ranger at that point it will be enough to use Phase Traversal and the ranger will die. Or look at the numbers a rev is able to do with CoR without anything with a 4 second CD, and maybe you will realize that there is no such difference of damage but only bad players and good players.

    But ranger can do it from 1500 range away. Rev has to jump into melee where he is also vulnerable.

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:
    BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.
    Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

    I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

    It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

    I have been able to 1 hit necros while running WS while using sicem. Or rather, scourges.

    And revenants.. and holos :)

    The worst part is you can perfectly time both your pet swap for quickness.. merge to beastmode for unblockable..
    Pop sicem.. and if you don't have stability you're basically dead in the blink of an eye unless you have lots of armor and protection.

    A Power Herald in its rotation has the necessary to eliminate a ranger with simplicity, using Infuse Light is able to completely absorb the damage of the ranger at that point it will be enough to use Phase Traversal and the ranger will die. Or look at the numbers a rev is able to do with CoR without anything with a 4 second CD, and maybe you will realize that there is no such difference of damage but only bad players and good players.

    But ranger can do it from 1500 range away. Rev has to jump into melee where he is also vulnerable.

    Now now rev still has a skill that hits from 1200 range, is not a projectile, has better power scaling, and better base damage than worldly impact or mail.

    Plus a good rev can cover 1500 range easy running staff/sword hearld, shiro. and can chain dogdes/blocks nearly the whole time especially if they're running speed runes.

    So here's this if ranger gets Nerfed so should hammer Rev

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:
    BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.
    Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

    I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

    It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

    I have been able to 1 hit necros while running WS while using sicem. Or rather, scourges.

    And revenants.. and holos :)

    The worst part is you can perfectly time both your pet swap for quickness.. merge to beastmode for unblockable..
    Pop sicem.. and if you don't have stability you're basically dead in the blink of an eye unless you have lots of armor and protection.

    A Power Herald in its rotation has the necessary to eliminate a ranger with simplicity, using Infuse Light is able to completely absorb the damage of the ranger at that point it will be enough to use Phase Traversal and the ranger will die. Or look at the numbers a rev is able to do with CoR without anything with a 4 second CD, and maybe you will realize that there is no such difference of damage but only bad players and good players.

    But ranger can do it from 1500 range away. Rev has to jump into melee where he is also vulnerable.

    This has nothing to do with it, every class has different mechanics, the ranger remains an archer and it is right that it has a greater range, compared to other classes, that thief has easy access to invisibility etc.

    Currently what makes WvW unbalanced in my opinion is not the presence of skills as sickem, the professions can increase the stacks of might too easily and the presence of some foods that reinforce these situations, I look forward to this update and I hope the situation is resolved without destroying specifications
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eleazar.9478 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:
    BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.
    Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

    I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

    It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

    I have been able to 1 hit necros while running WS while using sicem. Or rather, scourges.

    And revenants.. and holos :)

    The worst part is you can perfectly time both your pet swap for quickness.. merge to beastmode for unblockable..
    Pop sicem.. and if you don't have stability you're basically dead in the blink of an eye unless you have lots of armor and protection.

    A Power Herald in its rotation has the necessary to eliminate a ranger with simplicity, using Infuse Light is able to completely absorb the damage of the ranger at that point it will be enough to use Phase Traversal and the ranger will die. Or look at the numbers a rev is able to do with CoR without anything with a 4 second CD, and maybe you will realize that there is no such difference of damage but only bad players and good players.

    But ranger can do it from 1500 range away. Rev has to jump into melee where he is also vulnerable.

    Now now rev still has a skill that hits from 1200 range, is not a projectile, has better power scaling, and better base damage than worldly impact or mail.

    Plus a good rev can cover 1500 range easy running staff/sword hearld, shiro. and can chain dogdes/blocks nearly the whole time especially if they're running speed runes.

    So here's this if ranger gets Nerfed so should hammer Rev

    I agree! Both should!! Not just individual classes but the TTK on zerker builds should go up a bit while sustain builds TTK should go down so they aren't invincible..

  • Acyk.9671Acyk.9671 Member ✭✭
    edited April 13, 2019

    Sic Em is clearly too strong when merged and requires a nerf. Remorseless is also problematic on a spec that can get so much fury on high duration.

  • UmbraNoctis.1907UmbraNoctis.1907 Member ✭✭✭

    Fury duration is irrelevant for Remorseless, application is what matters for this trait. And yes, ranger does have a fair amount of Fury sources, which makes this trait strong in certain builds. However, taking MM usually comes with a considerable trade-off and is not optimal for most builds, and nerfs would make the traitline not worth taking at all in the current state of the game.

  • Acyk.9671Acyk.9671 Member ✭✭

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:
    Fury duration is irrelevant for Remorseless, application is what matters for this trait. And yes, ranger does have a fair amount of Fury sources, which makes this trait strong in certain builds. However, taking MM usually comes with a considerable trade-off and is not optimal for most builds, and nerfs would make the traitline not worth taking at all in the current state of the game.

    In PvP sure. In WvW, not much of a trade off.

  • UmbraNoctis.1907UmbraNoctis.1907 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2019

    How is it different in WvW? The most obnoxious ranger builds in WvW are Sic'Em Pew Pew builds and tanky boon spam builds, neither benefits much from Remorseless.

  • Acyk.9671Acyk.9671 Member ✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:
    How is it different in WvW? The most obnoxious ranger builds in WvW are Sic'Em Pew Pew builds and tanky boon spam builds, neither benefits much from Remorseless.

    I am not saying there isn't any trade off but it doesn't feel as much as a sacrifice as it does in PvP. Thanks to open field LB shines so you can reliably OS enemies at 1500+ Range and the different balance on stances, runes, sigils and gear partly makes up for the loss of sustain from WS on "Sic'Em Pew Pew", as you call it.

    On a general note, damage modifiers are too high and numerous in this game especially when you can stack them.

  • UmbraNoctis.1907UmbraNoctis.1907 Member ✭✭✭

    The thing is, other traits grant more dmg to players pew pewing from 1,5k range. Remorseless mainly shines in combination with GS burst and certain pets, not so much on LB.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2019

    It's not overpowered but it also has no place in PvP and is really silly.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:
    The thing is, other traits grant more dmg to players pew pewing from 1,5k range. Remorseless mainly shines in combination with GS burst and certain pets, not so much on LB.

    Have you guys ever heard of the skirmishing traitline ......? Oh no.

  • Lottie.5370Lottie.5370 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2019


    *taken from a guildie

    So a Soulbeast can get these stats (full asc berserker plus 25 might, easily doable in a roaming party) and then can get a 40% dmg buff from Sic 'Em. How can you not think that is too much of a damage boost? ANYTHING you hit with is going to do insane damage, I can dismount a guy with 2 autos, then rapid fire and he's dead. It is still going to do a lot of damage if you halve the skill to say... 20% dmg for 8 seconds
    +and not be as obnoxious as it is now.

  • Lottie.5370Lottie.5370 Member ✭✭✭

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @Lottie.5370 said:

    *taken from a guildie

    So a Soulbeast can get these stats (full asc berserker plus 25 might, easily doable in a roaming party) and then can get a 40% dmg buff from Sic 'Em. How can you not think that is too much of a damage boost? ANYTHING you hit with is going to do insane damage, I can dismount a guy with 2 autos, then rapid fire and he's dead. It is still going to do a lot of damage if you halve the skill to say... 20% dmg for 8 seconds
    +and not be as obnoxious as it is now.

    "2268 armor, 17k health"

    Have you considered just, I don't know, actually attacking the person?

    Do you read????

    That is the soulbeast's stats, they are then getting 40% dmg on top of that. Almost 4k power plus a 40% dmg boost.

  • Wondrouswall.7169Wondrouswall.7169 Member ✭✭✭

    The way I see it, if/when Anet does nerf it, I hope it would be done in a way that doesn't indirectly screw the pet over, too. A reduction of this skill due to how potent it can be with Soulbeast also reduces the utility's potency when used for its original purpose of buffing the pet.

    Skill split is also an option, but higher bonuses should remain if used for the pet. Never forget about our pets. <3

    PET PRECISION & DPS DATA (DPS outdated)
    Back in Black... Desert Online.

  • Lottie.5370Lottie.5370 Member ✭✭✭

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:
    I mean a lot of what I see here is people saying it's OP without taking into consideration how squishy Soulbeast is.

    Part of what will make or break Sic' Em is how great or terrible the player is. Yeah it's quite a powerhouse but think about it, all that damage and the one thing you're sacrificing is defense. You eat enemy HP as fast as they eat yours. If Soulbeasts screw up their play, any other profession can destroy them in a matter of seconds with the amount of HP and armor.

    Bad argument, it's no squishier than ANY other class wearing zerker gear. You can do this damage and still be running signet of stone/trait or dolyak stance, kinda removes the squishy aspect. You have insane mobility with greatsword and Gazelle F2 so you can disengage whenever you want, also stealth on LB3.

    If any profession in zerker gear screws up their play, any profession can destroy that person.

    Soulbeast doesn't need a 40% damage boost to kill something, you still do 6-8k lb auto crits, your gs2 still hits 8-10k and you can do it twice in 2 seconds whilst stunning the enemy. Nothing makes or breaks Sic 'Em, a terrible player is still terrible with it, a good player is still good without it.

  • Lottie.5370Lottie.5370 Member ✭✭✭

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @Lottie.5370 said:

    Bad argument, it's no squishier than ANY other class wearing zerker gear. You can do this damage and still be running signet of stone/trait or dolyak stance, kinda removes the squishy aspect. You have insane mobility with greatsword and Gazelle F2 so you can disengage whenever you want, also stealth on LB3.

    If any profession in zerker gear screws up their play, any profession can destroy that person.

    Soulbeast doesn't need a 40% damage boost to kill something, you still do 6-8k lb auto crits, your gs2 still hits 8-10k and you can do it twice in 2 seconds whilst stunning the enemy. Nothing makes or breaks Sic 'Em, a terrible player is still terrible with it, a good player is still good without it.

    If you think the sos and dolyak position allows a berserker ranger to survive and be more resistant, you probably have never played ranger. There is a reason they use 1 or none of these skills, and it's because they are useless (or almost) on that build. The only real advantage is the range, most classes have better tools to survive on berserker builds, perma stealth for example.

    Ye disengage when they want but Thief, Mirage and Spellbreaker have the same mobility as Soulbeast and Revenant can prevent the class from escaping with Phase Traversal.

    The skill you refer to is swoop of birds and not the f2 of gazelle.

    Probably dps ranger will be dead even before launching the first maul, forcing this build in close combat and losing, doesn't make the OP build but the people, bad players.
    Many builds are capable of one-shot in game, even more efficiently, but people like to complain about rangers xD

    No, the skill I refer to is F2 on Gazelle since you run the Gazelle with this build. If you use it without a target, you will instead dash forwards a distance and can combine it with GS3. It seems like all the people like you on this thread expect ranger to win every single match up? Every class has its counters, and classes that out mobilise SLB or classes that can't be killed in the 4 second unlockable window are of course going to be much harder to kill.

    In match-ups like power chrono or power reaper, SoS can be pretty nice to give you extra time for the last 1-2 autos you need to down them.

    I have 8k hours on ranger and spent a considerable amount of time playing this build, maybe you shouldn't assume. I am not complaining about ranger, I consider Sic 'Em too strong and so made a thread suggesting a change to it.

  • Wondrouswall.7169Wondrouswall.7169 Member ✭✭✭

    I suggest altering your suggestion, at the very least, so the interaction of Sic 'Em is reduced with Soulbeast but only in Beastmode like Attack of Opporunity. Otherwise, it also screws over the pet and further diminishes its effectiveness with builds/specs that might incorporate it outside of Soulbeast.

    PET PRECISION & DPS DATA (DPS outdated)
    Back in Black... Desert Online.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lottie.5370 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @Lottie.5370 said:

    Bad argument, it's no squishier than ANY other class wearing zerker gear. You can do this damage and still be running signet of stone/trait or dolyak stance, kinda removes the squishy aspect. You have insane mobility with greatsword and Gazelle F2 so you can disengage whenever you want, also stealth on LB3.

    If any profession in zerker gear screws up their play, any profession can destroy that person.

    Soulbeast doesn't need a 40% damage boost to kill something, you still do 6-8k lb auto crits, your gs2 still hits 8-10k and you can do it twice in 2 seconds whilst stunning the enemy. Nothing makes or breaks Sic 'Em, a terrible player is still terrible with it, a good player is still good without it.

    If you think the sos and dolyak position allows a berserker ranger to survive and be more resistant, you probably have never played ranger. There is a reason they use 1 or none of these skills, and it's because they are useless (or almost) on that build. The only real advantage is the range, most classes have better tools to survive on berserker builds, perma stealth for example.

    Ye disengage when they want but Thief, Mirage and Spellbreaker have the same mobility as Soulbeast and Revenant can prevent the class from escaping with Phase Traversal.

    The skill you refer to is swoop of birds and not the f2 of gazelle.

    Probably dps ranger will be dead even before launching the first maul, forcing this build in close combat and losing, doesn't make the OP build but the people, bad players.
    Many builds are capable of one-shot in game, even more efficiently, but people like to complain about rangers xD

    No, the skill I refer to is F2 on Gazelle since you run the Gazelle with this build. If you use it without a target, you will instead dash forwards a distance and can combine it with GS3. It seems like all the people like you on this thread expect ranger to win every single match up? Every class has its counters, and classes that out mobilise SLB or classes that can't be killed in the 4 second unlockable window are of course going to be much harder to kill.

    In match-ups like power chrono or power reaper, SoS can be pretty nice to give you extra time for the last 1-2 autos you need to down them.

    I have 8k hours on ranger and spent a considerable amount of time playing this build, maybe you shouldn't assume. I am not complaining about ranger, I consider Sic 'Em too strong and so made a thread suggesting a change to it.

    A nerf is not a suggestion.

    I don't expect the rangers to win every game, in my comments in this post you'll see that I say the opposite, the build has enough counters and I'm fine with that.

    There is no need to show you that the ranger with sickem has damage equal to other professions and not superior, you say it yourself in the initial post, you need it to get the same dps as other professions and in wvw it's the same, I don't understand because it should be different.
    So if a ranger gets 20k rapid fire it's OP, and revenant with 15k dps every 4 seconds with CoR or elementalist with 10k hits with meteor shower is normal, and this is contradictory for me.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2019

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    you repeat yourself quite a lot. Just so you can get the idea the game is not designed to provide dumb weakness and artificial limitations to classes . Your mantra of nerfing soulbeast just for the sake of it is ridiculous.

    No other class in game has the limitations or how you call them weakness because it does not fit with the game itself. This game is not WoW with their rigid class system, so stop pushing your agenda to make it so.

    Sic'em doesnt need to be nerfed, the increased damage in wvw is a 25% for 6 seconds. The core utilities don't need no nerf, it needs buffing. Ranger still keeps outdated skills and mechanics which has been nerfed and never balanced again for a fun gameplay.

    What is should be looked upon is the soulbeast itself and make sure damage the extra damage isnt applied when the foes are over 600 units away. As general design it seems the soulbeast was designed with this burst damage in mind but more melee oriented.

    But for that the trait line should be redesigned so the traits reinforce that gameplay.

    You are wrong. It clearly says 40% dmg increase, and the dmg buff lasts for 10 WHOLE SECONDs. The reveal effect is what lasts 6 seconds.
    Seriously. If you can't play an entire class without sicem, you are just not a good ranger in the first place. I've been playing for so many years without using it. I use it for lulz dmg, but when I want to duel people I swap it out with either QZ or protect me.

    This means that sicem isn't necessarily OP in all scenarios cus it's not the end all and be all, but it is "broken" in the sense that it's really unhealthy for the game. 1shots aren't really funny for everyone else except the ranger himself.

    dude stop with the parody already, somebody tested the actual damage and defined the increase as 25% in pvp modes
    The tip can say whatever you want, its not like the first time we have a worng tip... Do you want another example? Check invigorating bond and how it does not shows the increased healing when investing in healing power.

    If you think that person was wrong, go do some tests in wvw and share the results. We have ArcDPS now that works pretty well for testing. And from my personal testing i can assure you its 25%

    The soulbeast dont need no nerf on any of the skills. What i would do is to rework the traitline so the soulbeast get the benefits of the specialitation while the target is close, lets say like 600 units.

    Over than that and the damage lose all the extra benefits. Soulbeast the same as the druid is a complete mess with no clear direction of what should excel at.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lottie.5370 said:

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:
    I mean a lot of what I see here is people saying it's OP without taking into consideration how squishy Soulbeast is.

    Part of what will make or break Sic' Em is how great or terrible the player is. Yeah it's quite a powerhouse but think about it, all that damage and the one thing you're sacrificing is defense. You eat enemy HP as fast as they eat yours. If Soulbeasts screw up their play, any other profession can destroy them in a matter of seconds with the amount of HP and armor.

    Bad argument, it's no squishier than ANY other class wearing zerker gear. You can do this damage and still be running signet of stone/trait or dolyak stance, kinda removes the squishy aspect. You have insane mobility with greatsword and Gazelle F2 so you can disengage whenever you want, also stealth on LB3.

    If any profession in zerker gear screws up their play, any profession can destroy that person.

    Soulbeast doesn't need a 40% damage boost to kill something, you still do 6-8k lb auto crits, your gs2 still hits 8-10k and you can do it twice in 2 seconds whilst stunning the enemy. Nothing makes or breaks Sic 'Em, a terrible player is still terrible with it, a good player is still good without it.

    Lots of hyperbole and hype in your argument, but honestly, running stats like you're suggesting mean that you get 1-shot by other classes running much tankier gear. I can say this because this happened to me in WvW the other day since I mainly sPvP and PvE, but tossed on a bit of marauder gear with my zerk gear to jump in wvw for a bit.

    Sic 'em does give some strong burst, but if it did anything less, there would be even less rangers in WvW since they're already kitten poor in group fights where projectile hate is too much for even windows of unblockable attacks to make much of a difference.

  • LughLongArm.5460LughLongArm.5460 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't play SB but from the perspective of someone playing against many SB in pvp, I don't think it's OP at all. Usually Sicem builds got paper defense and melt as fast as they kill like tons of other yolo builds you can find in pvp.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Every class has some cheese. Why target just Sb/Ranger?

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Flying.6509Flying.6509 Member ✭✭

    As long as they don't touch Revealed on it, I don't really care if they nerf the damage. Don't really use it too much.

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2019

    What ranger needs is a nerf to soulbeast, and a friggin viable zerg build. Druids staff is a good candidate for a zerg weapon, and with some adjustments to traits rangers might hold a place in a zerg after so many years. Soulbeast is overperforming, and we all know it. You can easily try it in wvw. But balancing a profession is not only nerfing a huge part of it to the ground. There are so many good possibilities for rangers if only anet dares to work on it.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    The fact that the skill isn't even a must for the build just gives anet all the more reason to nerf it.

    Wat.

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:
    BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.
    Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

    I agree, classes shouldn't be balanced around dismounting someone but broken combat avoidance tool should just be made not broken.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    @alain.1659 said:
    What ranger needs is a nerf to soulbeast, and a friggin viable zerg build. Druids staff is a good candidate for a zerg weapon, and with some adjustments to traits rangers might hold a place in a zerg after so many years. Soulbeast is overperforming, and we all know it. You can easily try it in wvw. But balancing a profession is not only nerfing a huge part of it to the ground. There are so many good possibilities for rangers if only anet dares to work on it.

    With the latest changes that anet has made to druid, it is far from having a zerg build.
    Staff is used only for astral force for CA without a rework it remains useless in all circumstances because it is not able to do damage.
    In any case it would be less than FB because druid has no access to bubbles or stability and the spirits are totally useless in wvw and even if they could move they would have the same problem as pets.

    I know that the classes that outperform in wvw are Scourge, FB, Revenant and SpellBreaker that occupy all the places in the zergs since the release of PoF and leave nothing to others, a build meme like soulbeast, DE, mirage, Berserker or any other profession , which kills roamers noob with few skills does not create me any problem.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    Soulbeast honestly needs to be completely redesigned from the ground up, it's a very badly designed spec in every game mode and is far too effective for how little player input and skill is required.

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    you repeat yourself quite a lot. Just so you can get the idea the game is not designed to provide dumb weakness and artificial limitations to classes . Your mantra of nerfing soulbeast just for the sake of it is ridiculous.

    No other class in game has the limitations or how you call them weakness because it does not fit with the game itself. This game is not WoW with their rigid class system, so stop pushing your agenda to make it so.

    Sic'em doesnt need to be nerfed, the increased damage in wvw is a 25% for 6 seconds. The core utilities don't need no nerf, it needs buffing. Ranger still keeps outdated skills and mechanics which has been nerfed and never balanced again for a fun gameplay.

    What is should be looked upon is the soulbeast itself and make sure damage the extra damage isnt applied when the foes are over 600 units away. As general design it seems the soulbeast was designed with this burst damage in mind but more melee oriented.

    But for that the trait line should be redesigned so the traits reinforce that gameplay.

    You are wrong. It clearly says 40% dmg increase, and the dmg buff lasts for 10 WHOLE SECONDs. The reveal effect is what lasts 6 seconds.
    Seriously. If you can't play an entire class without sicem, you are just not a good ranger in the first place. I've been playing for so many years without using it. I use it for lulz dmg, but when I want to duel people I swap it out with either QZ or protect me.

    This means that sicem isn't necessarily OP in all scenarios cus it's not the end all and be all, but it is "broken" in the sense that it's really unhealthy for the game. 1shots aren't really funny for everyone else except the ranger himself.

    dude stop with the parody already, somebody tested the actual damage and defined the increase as 25% in pvp modes
    The tip can say whatever you want, its not like the first time we have a worng tip... Do you want another example? Check invigorating bond and how it does not shows the increased healing when investing in healing power.

    If you think that person was wrong, go do some tests in wvw and share the results. We have ArcDPS now that works pretty well for testing. And from my personal testing i can assure you its 25%

    The soulbeast dont need no nerf on any of the skills. What i would do is to rework the traitline so the soulbeast get the benefits of the specialitation while the target is close, lets say like 600 units.

    Over than that and the damage lose all the extra benefits. Soulbeast the same as the druid is a complete mess with no clear direction of what should excel at.

    Sic 'Em is a 40% damage buff, not 25%, for a merged soulbeast. As you say, it's been tested, and it's a clear 40% increase in damage. I've tested it myself in both sPvP and WvW and got the same result (40%), so not sure why your own tests came up short.

  • Nora.9207Nora.9207 Member

    Leave Soulbeast as it is please - unless you gonna mess with thief as well

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