Could heal thief be built into a viable tank?

so, i was mucking around with some buildcrafting on an alt of mine... and stumbled upon a "heal thief" build, asking for apothecaries gear, runes of the water, and the legit only healing skill that is sent out o others is shadow refuge, from what i understand. the Tankiness, however, well over 1.5k toughness, with almost instantaneous regen, even though i was sitting at 11.5Khealth, was pretty impressive. what i'd like to know, fellow thieves... is can a thief be built as a tank, and can it be considered a viable build in raids or other group content?

tbh heal thief is underrated future meta tank. ppl are just to blind how much party support it brings. all this healing and boons it apply makes it competable to fb, but ppl are underestimating it

Only if they had some mechanic that turned all of their stealth into something else, like some sort of "Shadow Shroud" that makes those affected harder to hit, but not invisible.

@Safandula.8723 said:tbh heal thief is underrated future meta tank. ppl are just to blind how much party support it brings. all this healing and boons it apply makes it competable to fb, but ppl are underestimating itI agree . i mean... after playing it and watching the few vids on YT about it.. the tankiness is incredible. but do you have to stick on apothecarys? can it be adjusted in any way?the big reason why i am asking is... for a while now, thief has been regrettably seen as a condi(not so much anymore) CC machine, or dps machine.And up until i started messing with heal thief, i was absolutely convinced that a support variant was not possible

Care to link a build?

Most thief builds that heal others need to rely pretty strongly on venoms. Other support options include Fire for Effect on Deadeye for lots of might and various other boons.

The trick is you need to build around concentration as well as healing power and I’m not sure how much you can stuff into the build before you need to start making trade offs.

this is the vid i based mine on. but i made the change of using runes of the water instead of runes of the undeadgw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl8MhenYxTw7JQ/ELUFlXIkCDwc139lfXPFANAA-jRyDABXq+jeaCK4IA40+DM8AA49QAAoSQAOBAYp8DA-eand this is what i have been experimenting withthe runes of the undead add toughness to the build and crank toughness to 2088

@"blackheartgary.8605" said:

this is the vid i based mine on. but i made the change of using runes of the water instead of runes of the undeadgw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl8MhenYxTw7JQ/ELUFlXIkCDwc139lfXPFANAA-jRyDABXq+jeaCK4IA40+DM8AA49QAAoSQAOBAYp8DA-eand this is what i have been experimenting withthe runes of the undead add toughness to the build and crank toughness to 2088

I don't see why this build wouldn't work. If it's mainly for PvE, then fine even though being tanky in PvE isn't really necessary unless you struggle with some of the HoT and PoF areas.

I dig that concept. i have played that version, as a healing role... and sometimes i manage to get more than 2 people rezzed before i get spotted in wvw. but can it tank?

I know SA + mercy runes makes a pretty dank rez thief. Another undocumented thing is that Shadow refuge also heals downed people by 5% hp per tick too. I don't know if Resilience of Shadows applies to other people, but if it does, it could make your rezzes even better. Pretty sure other classes running meme skills (battle standard, etc) will still be more effective, but playing a heavy support/rez thief is a good change of pace and can be fun.

@"blackheartgary.8605" said:I dig that concept. i have played that version, as a healing role... and sometimes i manage to get more than 2 people rezzed before i get spotted in wvw. but can it tank?

If you want to tank, you need to do it through evasions and spot heals and extended boon for as long as you can. To do this, you need Durability Runes and Minstrel gears. Sacrificing some healing power for durability.

You can either spec for DD for more endurance, or you can spec for DE for crazy amount of boons (M7). I personally would pick DD since Staff gives you access to 2 evade skills.

Here's a mock up build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYWn8lC9OhFOBGmC0PhlriqbBmuAYe6v+v3bDGhPA-jxxDQBQU5HAOFAAU9n4t/A8eCAfUJIe0HAA-e

Thanks to everyone for the amazing responses! i love toying around with the different classes, thief(my main for 6 years) specifically, and just being able to push it to it's limits on what thief can actually pull off is indeed a fun time! again, thank you!

I have had a Dblossom build, Tank Thief for some years. DBlossom with signet of malice is a significant heal source as the heals run at 197 per attack just for signet up to 3 targets meaning just SOM can heal for 9x 193 if against three enemy per Dblossom. The Assassins reward gives 825 heal ber dblossom, Regen is full time at 287 per second. Throw in daggerstrom heal and drop a Caltrops and these become sources of heals as well.

Given it condition not you sit at a base of around 1300 which given the staying power is not all that bad. Single Dblossom against one opponet will heal ~1400 per dblossom even as you output 3 bleed stacks. Throw in regen and things like sigil of water and heals really come in at a rapid clip. GI out of acro combined with the DD evade plus PR out of acro flushes conditions in a hurry .

Holy shit I was trolling and u all say its good.

Only way for thief support to work is with są as rally bot and venoms share. + shadow refugee. But it doesn't provide any good healing or boons and can't get any close even to blood Necro that spam with condies

@"Safandula.8723" said:Only way for thief support to work is with są as rally bot and venoms share. + shadow refugee. But it doesn't provide any good healing or boons and can't get any close even to blood Necro that spam with condies

“Good” is relative. Will it be immortal and also solo kill people? Probably not. Whether that is helpful depends on the opponent.

I’d suggest a DE based support build might be able to add in support boons and healing with some CC. However, I’ve not built that out so I can’t say it would work super well.

Edit: something like this maybe?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVnMJCVOhtFDePB0PhFtCj/O+HLkeVgJQGoLmMjCAA-jRCBQBoSfwQ2fAAPAAVp+DEOCAJ4EAcsDBg1U+tSlgkCwZpWA-e

Zealots gear with runes of mercy? cool combo! :) and i know, i know, i am plain out of my head thinking a thief can possibly be a bonafide raid tank... the real question is... why not? I have heard the mantra a thousand times, every profession can fit every "role". and i have always heard the addendum "except thief. thief does damage." i am glad we get to do one job, maybe even two, maybe even a little of the third as a support role with boonstealing and boonsharing... but being a tanking thief is a rare thing and i really think it is possible. thank you for all your input.

A lot of our game play involves 600 to 1200 port or arch, things get dicey once we anchor ourselves and we're still thieves once we get focused. We can pack some countermeasures and flak but it has to stand up to what's going to be around people we're trying to rescue or cover. I like fast rez and black power over Refuge and Snipers Cover is good all around but especially for blinds. Part of my rescue build is Basilik Venom and interrupts/pulls because once I get one or two people up, I want to turn it around into a push unless my side has a composition that can let us peel out under more control.

I keep a threshold though where I want to still hold on to a base line thief build and budget for a few tools that I'll need but I'd feel like I'd be wasting time and building too much agro with a full on bunker/healing build.

Thief/daredevil has been a thing to tank : full berserker (with a captain backpack for aggro for example) + the trait that heals you to a percentage of your critical hits; with mights fury etc you're full life with a single AA chain.

But why we chose others classes to tank ? Because they can tank and bring a large support to their allies: chronotank is just a chronosupport but with toughness, same as FB or others. What does thief bring to the group if it's not DPS ? Thief doesn't have heals for the group, nor a lot of boons.

I know there is a sniper build with Deadly art and trickery that can share 25 mights and fury. It's fun in wvw or pve if your group s**k to cap the 25 mights. It could be interesting to share the stolen item with allies ... but no ... pity.

Long ago I wrote this idea. Would love something like it to be implemented one day.

The Chief Bandit

Class Role:Tank and support through self-administered ally healing.

Weapon:Hammer.

Profession Mechanic:Chief Bandit Presence: You become revealed instead of gaining stealth. When you are revealed gain flip-over skills.(All abilities that work while stealth, now work while revealed).

Minor Traits:Chief Bandit Presence: You become revealed instead of gaining stealth. When you are revealed gain flip-over skills. Gain alacrity when revealed. Alacrity also affects your traits.Quick tongue: Gain quickness when you Shout while revealed. Shouts have increased range.Bandit’s Endurance: Gain 1 stack of Bandit’s Endurance every 3 seconds after you been hit. Max stack: 5Bandit’s Endurance: +70 toughness.

Adept:1. Leader not Boss: Copy 3 of your boons to 3 random allies within the threshold. (If they already had them, stack duration). CD: Pulse every 15 secs.2. Clear Orders: Allies heal for a set amount when they abandon the threshold. 400 units. CD: 10secs per ally.3. The Best Defense: Become revealed when your initiative is below 5. If you have revitalization when this occurs, consume the boon for it's total healing.

Master:1. Fierce Leader:Gain: 1/2 sec of protection for each ally within 300 units. (Up to 5).1/2 sec of retaliation for every foe within 300 units. (up to 5).CD:15 secs.2. Bringer of Havoc: Allies within the threshold heal for 15% of their critical hits. Exactly in between 400-500 units. Max: 5.3. Advanced Bandit’s Defense:Gain a block when your endurance is below 30. If you block something, gain back some endurance.

Grandmaster:1. Render to Caesar: Copy all boons of a random ally within the threshold to yourself. (If you already had them, stack duration) CD: 20secs.2. Blood of a Martyr: Allies around you heal for 50% of the damage you receive. Exactly in between 300 to 400 units. Max count: 5, CD: 10secs.3. Bandit’s Reprisal: Gain retaliation if you have the max stack of Bandit’s Endurance.

Weapon skills:1. Melee-Aoe attack chain. 3rd one steals a boon from one target.2. Headblow: Swing your hammer in an arc, inflicting vulnerability and interrupting skills.3. Hammer Spin: Spin in place along with your hammer, destroying projectiles and damaging foes.4. Battlefield Presence: Stow your hammer for 3 seconds, becoming unable to attack. Become revealed. Downed allies in an area gain 2secs of stealth.5. Shadow Vortex: Strike your hammer with force in front of you, pulling enemies in. Blast combo.

Utilities:6. Never surrender!: Heal for x. The healing skill cooldown of nearby allies is reduced by x%.Flip-over: Heal for less. This skill CD is halved.7. Pillage!: The next two critical hits of you and your allies heals for 100% of damage. Ammunition: 3. CD: 30secs.Flip-over: Self-heal for every ally affected.8. Arm yourselves!: Grant two explosive kits to up to 5 allies. Their next two attacks deal more damage and burn.Flip-over: When an ally does any combo, they also do a blast finisher.9. Together we stand!: You and up to 5 people heal x for every ally around you. Also gain some protection for every foe in the threshold. Breaks stun.Flip-over: Allies around you breaks stun.10. Ambush: You and allies around you gain stealth. Their next attack copies two boons from the target.Flip-over: Lose a condition for every boon copied.Elite- Assault!: Allies affected by this shout cannot have their boons stripped or corrupted. Boons already on them last 50% more. Duration: 5 secs.Flip-over: Lose all damaging conditions.CD: 40secs.

All 1, boonshare.All 2, healing.all 3, tank.