Suggestion : "Rise!" change

Change "Rise!" so that it, instead of summoning minions that absorb damage, it grants a stacking damage reduction effect on the reaper. (Said buff stacks based on number of targets struck).Damage reduction per stack : 10%.Duration : 8 seconds ?

Or perhaps it could grant 50% damage reduction and, like "Nothing Can Save You!", the duration increases per enemy struck.Duration : 4 seconds.Duration increase per enemy struck : 1 second.

"Rise!" got synergy with the death magic traitline and in it's current form give a deep "necro" feel, why would ANet ever do what you suggest here?

@"Dadnir.5038" said:"Rise!" got synergy with the death magic traitline and in it's current form give a deep "necro" feel, why would ANet ever do what you suggest here?

That is but a single use of the skill. One that is quite weird in my eyes, considering you usually would want to keep your minions alive so they can transfer conditions and apply damage (condie remov if traited).

I am confused by your argument…

Is this single usage of this skill enough justification to not change anything?

EDIT: I assume the synergy you speak of is with the grandmaster trait "Death Nova" that rewards minion deaths with a short lasting poison cloud.Now that I think about it, I remember that that trait is bugged : when the cloud is first summoned, it deals a fixed amount of damage, but upon actively sacrificing minions (such as bone minions, blood fiend, wurm) that damage is not dealt. it only seems to function upon external sources of death.

@killfil.3472 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:

"Rise!"

got synergy with the death magic traitline and in it's current form give a deep "necro" feel, why would ANet ever do what you suggest here?

"flesh of the master" and "Necromantic Corruption" seem more likely candidates

Indeed, just like Derd said I was thinking of 3 traits not just a single one.

I see and understand your point, (as well as agree with it on some regards) but the fact that this skill also has 2 classifications (technically, being that it grains benefits from Minion augments and Shout augments) kind of bugs me….

And also because I am disappointed by its general uselessness in PvP, given the fact that those minions usually get obliterated the second they apear and barely have time to absord any damage…

I would much preffer if, at least, the shambling horrors had an invulnerable-like state for their first moments of existance, only being vulnerable to the damage they absorb.

This change would delete the only fun and unique PvE build the necro have, the 15 minion reaper.

That this suggestion would be coming from necros is quite shocking.

Good for pvp modes, but anet have said all necro specs are fine in the pvp modes so GG.

Yh this change would ruin some of the fluff factor for open world pve players I guess.

I mean now that I think about it, just make it summon the minions as well, but without the damage reduction from the minions part.

i have to go with no on your suggestion because it's the lazy/easy band-aid solution to a bigger issue with necro. i'd rather have anet address the issues with minions and DM then remove minions from "Rise!"

@"Dadnir.5038" said:"Rise!" got synergy with the death magic traitline and in it's current form give a deep "necro" feel, why would ANet ever do what you suggest here?

Great. Synergy with a (dead) traitline, that you can only use in open world pve (where anything is viable)

Sure the traitline got a little buff, with the protection thing.But immediately got nerfed hard the next patch by removing passive spectral armor from soulreaping

Biggest problem of rise is following passage of the skills description: "shambling horrors absorb damage for their master as long as they're attacking"

As soon as you get outfight, the dmg reduction is gone, and even if you get back infight, you won't get the reduction again. That's at least what happened, when I last tested it

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:

"Rise!"

got synergy with the death magic traitline and in it's current form give a deep "necro" feel, why would ANet ever do what you suggest here?

wouldn't it make more sense then to reworks death magic instead of rise

@derd.6413 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:

"Rise!"

got synergy with the death magic traitline and in it's current form give a deep "necro" feel, why would ANet ever do what you suggest here?

Well, guess both would be perfect, but yeah I guess you're right.Deathmagic badly needs a rework, as well as focus 4^^

@Nimon.7840 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:

"Rise!"

got synergy with the death magic traitline and in it's current form give a deep "necro" feel, why would ANet ever do what you suggest here?

it's probably on their "to rework" list (but who knows at what spot in the queue it is)

A death magic rework would be welcome!

@derd.6413 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:

"Rise!"

got synergy with the death magic traitline and in it's current form give a deep "necro" feel, why would ANet ever do what you suggest here?

I hope so though, considering the old Guardian focus 4 was mechanically identical to Necro focus 4 and was revamped a few months back, I'm a bit doubtful.

Damage absorb should be constant imo.. not just when minions are attacking.

Tbh I only bother with the skill for the minions themselves not the damage absorb which I never notice anyway.All about the multi source damage, bonus toughness per minion and additional condi removal.. the mass death nova when they all expire is also fun to have.

Really what needs to happen here is these particularly minions should not be able to take damage or very much damage at all by normal means. They should only take realistic damage when the summoner takes damage outside of their normal decay.

They possibly have their auto attacks removed and traded for explosion on death instead so that they simply follow the necro or the necros target around un till they die in which they go boom.

These minons need to be pretty resistant to being attacked directly because it defeats their purpose and mechanic if a single weapon skill can kill them as soon as they spawn ontop of the decay time damage + damage the necro takes its really heavily weighted in risk over beneficial reward even when you stack it with death magic thats a whole nother conversation though. Overall this shout is bad. IF it had more than 1 charge it could be ok as is but with it being a 1 shot utility that provides not life force, little damage, and questionable rules that work against its main intent as damage reduction its just not good.

Shouts are one of the few things reaper still has on its list that are less than ok in my opinion "rise" and "nothing can save you" are the worst two with "your soul is mine" being put in 3rd place

rise, Fix the minions summoned or give it more than 1 chargeNothing can save you, Add 3s reveal when hits more than 1 charge here might be questionable but not a bad idea

Suffer has use even if its only got 1 charge (should have 2 imo)You are all weaklings has use with 1 charge (should have 2 imo over the damage increase it go)Chilled to the bone is solid as is

Shouts in general across almost all professions except the recent warrior need some looking into.

I think a fair number of shouts across reaper and tempest would be ok with having 2 charges like many of the warrior ones do now.

I am not sure whether everyone knows how Rise! does work (can't blame anyone as the mechanic is clunky).

Once casted the skill applies the "Dark Bond" effect to the caster for 5 seconds. The Dark Bond effect has to be active to be able to tansfer 33% of damage to the horrors. Each time when one of the risen horrors completes an attack the Dark Bond Effect is resetted to another 5s.

So Rise! is at least a 5 second 33% damage reduction right after it was casted and for additional intervals of 5s each time when a horror successfully attacks.

The skill is fine in PvE and WvW where the cooldown is 40s and can be reduced when traited. Unfortunately is was nerfed in PvP to a 60s cooldown as a band aid fix during the time when perma chilling mercenary condi reaper was a thing. Like usual for ANet they never reverted it when condi reaper became garbage.

I would change rise! as follows:

1 Standard cast = 6 horrors regardless of number of enemies.

2 Horrors gain dubble thier current HP and toughness

3 50% of all incoming damage (including condi) to the necromancer is transferred to the horrors regarless of if they attacking or not.

4 Horrors remove Condi from necro and transfer them to enemy without being traited.

5 Duration of horrors and cool down timer not split between game modes and reduced to the PvE version in all game modes. Add a second charge to this shout.

Some might says these are Over powered changes, i just say: "mesmer"...

Jus change rise so they absorb dmg regardless of action. And make them cause blind in a aoe for 2 seconds upon death

@"KrHome.1920" said:I am not sure whether everyone knows how Rise! does work (can't blame anyone as the mechanic is clunky).

Once casted the skill applies the "Dark Bond" effect to the caster for 5 seconds. The Dark Bond effect has to be active to be able to tansfer 33% of damage to the horrors. Each time when one of the risen horrors completes an attack the Dark Bond Effect is resetted to another 5s.

So Rise! is at least a 5 second 33% damage reduction right after it was casted and for additional intervals of 5s each time when a horror successfully attacks.

The skill is fine in PvE and WvW where the cooldown is 40s and can be reduced when traited. Unfortunately is was nerfed in PvP to a 60s cooldown as a band aid fix during the time when perma chilling mercenary condi reaper was a thing. Like usual for ANet they never reverted it when condi reaper became garbage.

IT should be clear how bad of a design this is for anything other than pve.They should have either not made it a requirement (if the minions can die so quickly anyways to direct damage)Or made it sow that the necro is the who needs to continue attacking to keep the dark bond effect not the minions.

Im sure the majority of people know how it works its just bad design on execution in attempts to nerf it cause it was crazy strong before hand.

@ZDragon.3046 said:IT should be clear how bad of a design this is for anything other than pve.They should have either not made it a requirement (if the minions can die so quickly anyways to direct damage)Or made it sow that the necro is the who needs to continue attacking to keep the dark bond effect not the minions.

Im sure the majority of people know how it works its just bad design on execution in attempts to nerf it cause it was crazy strong before hand.

Yet this is how ANet implements such kinds of buff. The previous scrapper bunker gyro worked this same way (the gyro gives a buff to those nearby, the presence of the buff causes the damage reduction, even if the gyro was already destroyed), and the previous phantasmal defender worked that way as well.

I imagine the reason the necromancer buff is updated whenever a minion attacks is the way to keep it working as long as the minions are alive, as otherwise the damage reduction would take place regardless of minions being alive or not.

As for the topic, perhaps ANet an apply in PvP the same rule of minions in PvE: they receive 99% less damage from all cleave attacks (that is, when the skill wasn't targeted at the minion itself).

un-nerfing it would be really nice, so that the minions don't have to be attacking. otherwise its kinda useless.

I like "rise!" As it is in Pve, but in PvP I wouldn't mind if it stayed the same except Anet should add an extra ability to the minions that make them detect any invisible enemies within a 600 field range by rushing up to them and dry humping their legs like a horny poodle!