Just ranting... And making drama out of It.

NO, the game Is not gonna die, we are not gonna go back to play Tetris and Pacman, it's not the end of the world, no drama queens pls, no salty balls, keep It chill.

Imo this buisness model of Gw2 it's not working really well. (https://i.redd.it/6px5scnx64g21.png)

Other big mmorpgs have monthly subscription or paid contents + 50€ expansion every year.And Gw2? LW, released Little by Little for free and two 40€ expansions in 7 years. I mean, wtf? How are you supposed to earn money and invest in better content? Selling Eye Candy? This Is not a friking moba, It doesn't work that way.

Imagine what would be to release (and sell for 30/40/50€) a full LW season or expansion every year, all at once, new story, 5 new Maps, new raid, new fractal, new collection, new achievments, instead of 1 map and few hours of gameplay every 3 months. It would be 10 times more impacting and satisfying, and provide more incomes to develop more and better contents.

And you know what's the best part? Despite all of this, in my personal experience, Gw2 still the best mmorpg, best gameplay, best combat system, best arts, best community.WoW? Most boring combat system ever. ESO? Class system/diversification/flavour unexistent. FF? Flat and slow and limited. (This Is Just my personal experience obv, played all of them until end game content)

Sell It ffs! sell It! Stop giving It for free! And use those Money to make It better and get rid of DirectX9... In 2019...

the game isn't dying the layoffs had nothing to do with gw2 not making money (because it does make money)

Whilst a sub would be no problem for me, i suspect it would be a huge issue for a lot of players

Wow can get away with it as it is the biggest, with the most marketing by farFF 14 has the legacy of final fantasy to draw upon

I am not sure what other MMO's do subs?

@shoegaze.3482 said:How Is it possible, after all these years, that ANET didn't understand this buisness model of Gw2 just doesn't work?Look at the mmorpg scene, All of them have monthly subscription or paid contents + 50€ expansion every year.

And Gw2? LW, released Little by Little for free and two 40€ expansions in 7 years. I mean, kitten? How are you supposed to earn money and invest in better content? Selling Eye Candy? This Is not a friking moba, It doesn't work that way.

Imagine what would be to release (and sell for 30/40/50€) a full LW season or expansion every year, all at once, new story, 5 new Maps, new raid, new fractal, new collection, new achievments, instead of 1 map and few hours of gameplay every 3 months. It would be 10 times more impacting and satisfying, and provide more incomes to develop more and better contents.

Dear ANET really, you can't give almost for free a videogame and then kitten up the job of +100 ppl because you don't earn enough money from It.

And you know what's the best part? Despite all of this, in my personal experience, Gw2 still the best mmorpg, best gameplay, best combat system, best arts, best community.WoW? Most boring combat system ever. ESO? Class system/diversification/flavour unexistent. FF? Flat and slow and limited. (This Is my personal experience obv, played all of them until end game content)

Im so pissed. >_> Don't let this game die, and sell It kitten! sell It! Stop giving It for free! And use those Money to make It better and get rid of DirectX9... In 2019...

Are u a shareholder?

The business model is working for them though.

I may not be a fan of it myself, but I am 100% certain they understand the industry and the business than anyone on the forums. Not business is going to change its model based on a forum rant after all

@Randulf.7614 said:The business model is working for them though.

I may not be a fan of it myself, but I am 100% certain they understand the industry and the business than anyone on the forums. Not business is going to change its model based on a forum rant after all

True.It's just a fake drama.

Fake but not too fake. (:

@derd.6413 said:the game isn't dying the layoffs had nothing to do with gw2 not making money (because it does make money)

I dont know, i just saw the PDF with the various ncsoft games revenue and GW2 doesn't seem to be doing great, compared with other ncsoft titles and with other mmorpgs.

And i really think It deserve more.

But ye, the game Is not dying at all, lot of players, lot of contents, im sure with more founds would be even better.

@shoegaze.3482 said:

@derd.6413 said:the game isn't dying the layoffs had nothing to do with gw2 not making money (because it does make money)

I know how you feel

I downloaded a mobile game recently, it is making good money (darkness rises)...12 million downloads in a couple of monthsIncredibly shallow game play, blatant p2w. Ridiculous 'sexy' costumes - yet it is making a lot of cash.

I dont understand how these games do so well, but i put it down to my age....

@trev.1045 said:

@shoegaze.3482 said:

@derd.6413 said:the game isn't dying the layoffs had nothing to do with gw2 not making money (because it does make money)

Well, I wouldn't assume all mobile games are like that.

Another aspect to look at, however, is overhead costs i.e. how much it costs to make and maintain these games vs how much revenue they get and over what time period.

You're wrong about "All of them having a subscription" as most of the top earners that are popular, offer a none-sub game play style."SOME of them" have subs and the biggest one that has a subscription is flopping REALLY hard and players are shifting to Guild Wars and Final Fantasy.

@shoegaze.3482 said:Look at the mmorpg scene, All of them have monthly subscription or paid contents + 50€ expansion every year.

what??? have no idea where you got that source from

• WoW = the biggest player in MMO market, paid expansion, monthly subscription, BUT you can avoid subscription with WoW Tokens
• Runescape = the cult classic, always been free to play with subscription if you want to access the hardcore contents
• SWTOR = mandatory subscription but was dumped months later
• Elder Scroll Online = mandatory monthly subscription dumped for micro transactions in March 2015
• Black Desert Online = exactly the same business model as GW2, but their pearl is ridiculously expensive, and purchased items are all character bounded after use.

AND FINALLY . . . (drum rolls) Lineage 2, the gem for NCSoftSubscription dumped for GW2 business model on November 30, 2011

NC Soft is a corporation, and as far as game companies go, a very corporate corporation, even more so than other giants of the business. People are layed off in every business even when the product is profitable. Corporations will keep the lowest workforce possible for them to achieve whatever their goals are. If you look at the numbers, GW2 isn't really ailing, is it? You can just squeeze more out of it.

@"shoegaze.3482" said:

Dear ANET really, you can't give almost for free a videogame and then kitten up the job of +100 ppl because you don't earn enough money from It.This is just ignorant. I don't mean that to be insulting; rather, I mean "ignorant" as in not informed. This is not the reason people were laid off. Perhaps people should actually read what happened before posting in hysterics?

(sigh)

@shoegaze.3482 said:How Is it possible, after all these years, that ANET didn't understand this buisness model of Gw2 just doesn't work?Largely because the game has been more successful than predicted when ANet set out to make GW2.

I think it's more likely that we, as a community, don't understand the finances or economics as well as ANet does. Not saying they haven't made major mistakes or missed big opportunities. The company has 250+ employees, the attrition in active and actively-interested players is low for a six-year old game, and the income is pretty solid.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:I think it's more likely that we, as a community, don't understand the finances or economics as well as ANet does. Not saying they haven't made major mistakes or missed big opportunities. The company has 250+ employees, the attrition in active and actively-interested players is low for a six-year old game, and the income is pretty solid.

Here is a great article on the need of reducing headcounts on LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-reducing-headcount-also-improves-productivity-need-shrivastava/

here's a 1 liner summary if people are too lazy to read; but you should read it

increasing staff numbers can lead to mismanagement, hence poor productivity, the goal of the business owner should strive for is the optimum staff number while maintaining high performance.

there are plenty of real world examples growing too fast ends badly, take for instance Japan Airline was borderline bankruptcy, General Electric had to be bailed out during GFC and recently cut share dividends down to $0.01 (disclaimer: I'm a GE shareholder)

the other thing is looking at from the macro scale

this is pretty much the norm these days, a player plays multiple micro transaction games, he/she have $50 to spend on games, he/she will need to chose how any and how much to put in that $50

he/she will most likely put that $50 into the game(s) that is the most popular or will give the most competitive advantage

Unlike gamers from western countries, players from asia countries s don't really give a damn about Pay2Win, you see people spending crazy amount of money every monthhttps://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/japanese-guy-spends-6000-on-mobile-game-then-compa-33019912/

i think a subscription fee is a problem for a lot of players. It wouldn't be for me, but it seems to be doing very well the way it is. Layoffs come with mergers and takeovers. It's the suuuucccky part of mergers.

I am concerned about development of new content. They say they're going to make new content, but I'm worried whatever money they're making will go into developing a phone app for the game and I DON'T WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME ON MY PHONE. I mean, COME ON!

One problem Ive noticed in this game is speed.And by that I mean everyone does everything in the game as fast as possible, and that means burning thru the content equally fast so new content becomes old really quickly and then the players complain that there isnt enuf content left for them to do.Theres simply no way that an MMO can produce new content as fast as players burn thru it .People need to stop expecting new content every 5 minutes .People also need to realise that the game isnt just for L80s.

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@shoegaze.3482 said:Look at the mmorpg scene, All of them have monthly subscription or paid contents + 50€ expansion every year.

• WoW = the biggest player in MMO market, paid expansion, monthly subscription,
  BUT
  you can avoid subscription with WoW Tokens
• Runescape = the cult classic, always been free to play with subscription if you want to access the hardcore contents
• SWTOR = mandatory subscription but was dumped months later
• Elder Scroll Online = mandatory monthly subscription dumped for micro transactions in March 2015
• Black Desert Online = exactly the same business model as GW2, but their pearl is ridiculously expensive, and purchased items are all character bounded after use.

3 cases mentioned by me, in my experience as a 3hours/day player: Impossible to achieve wow token, ESO Force you to get subs otherwise the limitation kills everything. Ff u Just Need It.

No idea about the other games you mentioned, that's why i didn't say anything about them.

@Electra.7530 said:i think a subscription fee is a problem for a lot of players. It wouldn't be for me, but it seems to be doing very well the way it is. Layoffs come with mergers and takeovers. It's the suuuucccky part of mergers.

I am concerned about development of new content. They say they're going to make new content, but I'm worried whatever money they're making will go into developing a phone app for the game and I DON'T WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME ON MY PHONE. I mean, COME ON!

You're in luck! This all seems to be because they were working on non-GW2 projects and that got canned so they're back to focusing on the MMO, with personnel shaved down to only those working on the MMO. If the new content were a phone app, that would go against everything we know about what this was all about.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"shoegaze.3482" said:

Dear ANET really, you can't give almost for free a videogame and then kitten up the job of +100 ppl because you don't earn enough money from It.This is just ignorant. I don't mean that to be insulting; rather, I mean "ignorant" as in not informed. This is not the reason people were laid off. Perhaps people should actually read what happened before posting in hysterics?

Please don't be so naive.

Try to understand what Is the point of the discussion instead of saying obvious things.Everyone know what Anet said about the lay off and the motivations, the problem may be what they didn't say, reasonably, since they have to preserve the Company.

It's not Anet doing the layoffs I don't think. I thought it was the NCSoft people that is merging operations with them that was doing the layoffs. I am very reluctant to drop money into the game right now until I'm absolutely assured my hard earned money I spend to play this game is going into development of new content and maintenance on this game and isn't going to be spent on developing phone aps. With NCSoft merging operations with them, sounds like the cash stream might be getting mingled or mixed a little too which concerns me.

We did give them money. They wasted it on unknown worthless projects that got everyone fired.

you just struck the biggest paradox there, OP. The ones who are not all about the money usually do the best.

@zionophir.6845 said:you just struck the biggest paradox there, OP. The ones who are not all about the money usually do the best.

Moba, battle royals and phone games maybe.Mmorpg are different. And the big ones (in the west) WoW, ESO and FF they all have monthly subs and/or paid content.

For 6.5 years, the payment model has indeed worked. Saying it doesn't work means you know how much profit the company is or isn't making from Guild Wars 2. What happened was that people had been syphoned off GW 2 and indeed hired extra to work on other projects that did not pan out. The company over all is not sustainable. Guild Wars 2 probably was before they side projects. But we just don't know. Saying it doesn't work is probably wrong, even if it's a few whales keeping it alive by spending ridiculous amounts of money on RNG black lion keys.