Scrapper - Page 6 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Scrapper

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  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @kittyfur.6459 said:
    Yeah it's clear it's too strong. Scrapper was able to easily hold a point being challenged by 2 enemy players, by itself, no problem. I've seen it many times now and i just returned to this game after 6 months off. I highly doubt all scrappers are magically "better" in skill than all other classes. it's simply OP. It's weird how GW can't seem to just correctly balance the game and leave it alone. They just OP one class, then OP another. Ticking off all the players who are both OP ( bc they dont want to lose it) and underpowered (who are sick of getting crushed). Is this really that much of rocket science? This constant balancing act is starting to reek of incompetence if you ask me. Get it RIGHT, once and for all. That's what the players want.

    Ah yes. A tank that is good at being a tank shouldn't be good at tanking any more. So it can go back to non-existence again.

    What?

    What's so confusing? Many people don't like it when builds can hold vs 2 or even vs 1 player forever because it is boring.

    Because it's saying that scrapper shouldn't be good at the one thing it was designed to do. It's not like it's good at much else.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Ralkuth.1456 said:
    So there's a missing link in your claim, and that is, how does a Scrapper getting countered and unable to matter, contribute to winning?
    Serious question. Because I can see the correlation but not the causation?
    Does this mean we should all try Scrapper because it passively makes you win more?

    You get it. Scrapper in the MaT semi-finals and up did not greatly matter nor contribute to winning, in the finals it was a 4v4 with a pointless Scrapper 1v1. We could have literally crossed out the word Scrapper and inserted Weaver, Druid, Firebrand, Boonbeast, possibly other duelist mirror matches that don't end ever. In the semi-finals despite K I D A going negative instead of being a non-contributor to winning, his team comp being all very weird sustain duelist variations on meta builds (Duelist tanky Rev, duelist Firebrand) but still managing to still get kills when outnumbering, and the sheer amount of decaps red team gave them were great contributors.

    If you somewhat know what you're doing when you analyze a match, you can see what strategies worked and didn't work, and K I D A's rifle Scrapper clearly did not work but lots of other things worked. The point focused duelist comp vs. rotational DPS comp was huge, even with a side-noder build & player like Boyce being an unfathomable level of effectiveness over K I D A (Or R O M) playing this really bad-fad rifle decap Engi

    If teams are smart and have the resources, we'll see this more duelist style team with double Chrono, possibly even the tanky Rev & duelist Firebrand, although I'm not completely sure if these specs are optimal outside of countering roamer comps. I am sold that this comp will counter the high DPS rotational comps we saw Trama/Boyce running, even if K I D A's team would have won harder if he was a Spellbreaker.

    @kittyfur.6459 said:
    Yeah it's clear it's too strong. Scrapper was able to easily hold a point being challenged by 2 enemy players, by itself, no problem. I've seen it many times now and i just returned to this game after 6 months off. I highly doubt all scrappers are magically "better" in skill than all other classes. it's simply OP. It's weird how GW can't seem to just correctly balance the game and leave it alone. They just OP one class, then OP another. Ticking off all the players who are both OP ( bc they dont want to lose it) and underpowered (who are sick of getting crushed). Is this really that much of rocket science? This constant balancing act is starting to reek of incompetence if you ask me. Get it RIGHT, once and for all. That's what the players want.

    I get you're morally outraged at and such, as I've said multiple times in this thread Bulwark Gyro since had a 33% barrier nerf since anyone has touched Scrapper so that will reduce the the teamfight, 1vX, and 1v1 power to where it's more likely to die in all scenarios. I'm not sure how this balancing act reeks of incompetence because they acted pretty fast and pretty fairly.

    I didn't read all of it and I'm sure you have some good points, but I wanted to point out that you can't say that all builds that can hold infinite 1v1s on sidenode are equal, because there can be big discrepancies in 1) how well they can survive +1s and 2) how well they escape and how fast they can rotate.

    // Yanim

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @kittyfur.6459 said:
    Yeah it's clear it's too strong. Scrapper was able to easily hold a point being challenged by 2 enemy players, by itself, no problem. I've seen it many times now and i just returned to this game after 6 months off. I highly doubt all scrappers are magically "better" in skill than all other classes. it's simply OP. It's weird how GW can't seem to just correctly balance the game and leave it alone. They just OP one class, then OP another. Ticking off all the players who are both OP ( bc they dont want to lose it) and underpowered (who are sick of getting crushed). Is this really that much of rocket science? This constant balancing act is starting to reek of incompetence if you ask me. Get it RIGHT, once and for all. That's what the players want.

    Ah yes. A tank that is good at being a tank shouldn't be good at tanking any more. So it can go back to non-existence again.

    What?

    What's so confusing? Many people don't like it when builds can hold vs 2 or even vs 1 player forever because it is boring.

    Because it's saying that scrapper shouldn't be good at the one thing it was designed to do. It's not like it's good at much else.

    The question then becomes, do we want any builds that are as tanky as scrapper is (with little effort too) to exist in the game at all?

    // Yanim

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Didn't sind tell stream that lefrere said scrapper was op and beat everything 1v1? I think you were there.

    Yeah, Lefrere's findings were not real by my own testing, Scrapper never had a positive matchup vs. everything 1v1 even pre-last patch, that's actually a very bold claim. As far as I know Boyce's Strength War is probably something 200-5 for duels against Scrappers played in a variety of ways. Sind was also mad that ArenaNet elevated another defensive spec to be viable, kind of venting about ArenaNet choices in general.

    Regardless whether he was accurate or not, can you really say that "no teams were considering bringing scrapper"?

    // Yanim

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Didn't sind tell stream that lefrere said scrapper was op and beat everything 1v1? I think you were there.

    Yeah, Lefrere's findings were not real by my own testing, Scrapper never had a positive matchup vs. everything 1v1 even pre-last patch, that's actually a very bold claim. As far as I know Boyce's Strength War is probably something 200-5 for duels against Scrappers played in a variety of ways. Sind was also mad that ArenaNet elevated another defensive spec to be viable, kind of venting about ArenaNet choices in general.

    Regardless whether he was accurate or not, can you really say that "no teams were considering bringing scrapper"?

    Not sure what else to say.. So again, at the time, a few weeks prior to the monthly no teams I was talking to were leaning towards it, and my prediction was wrong.

    Picked or not, I'm not convinced the teams who brought Scrapper over Spellbreaker benefited from that decision.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Didn't sind tell stream that lefrere said scrapper was op and beat everything 1v1? I think you were there.

    Yeah, Lefrere's findings were not real by my own testing, Scrapper never had a positive matchup vs. everything 1v1 even pre-last patch, that's actually a very bold claim. As far as I know Boyce's Strength War is probably something 200-5 for duels against Scrappers played in a variety of ways. Sind was also mad that ArenaNet elevated another defensive spec to be viable, kind of venting about ArenaNet choices in general.

    Regardless whether he was accurate or not, can you really say that "no teams were considering bringing scrapper"?

    Not sure what else to say.. So again, at the time, a few weeks prior to the monthly no teams I was talking to were leaning towards it, and my prediction was wrong.

    Picked or not, I'm not convinced the teams who brought Scrapper over Spellbreaker benefited from that decision.

    Ok

    // Yanim

  • I honestly believe that the glass cannon meta is healthier for the game than the bunker meta. Bunkers should be nothing but punching bags.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @kittyfur.6459 said:
    Yeah it's clear it's too strong. Scrapper was able to easily hold a point being challenged by 2 enemy players, by itself, no problem. I've seen it many times now and i just returned to this game after 6 months off. I highly doubt all scrappers are magically "better" in skill than all other classes. it's simply OP. It's weird how GW can't seem to just correctly balance the game and leave it alone. They just OP one class, then OP another. Ticking off all the players who are both OP ( bc they dont want to lose it) and underpowered (who are sick of getting crushed). Is this really that much of rocket science? This constant balancing act is starting to reek of incompetence if you ask me. Get it RIGHT, once and for all. That's what the players want.

    Ah yes. A tank that is good at being a tank shouldn't be good at tanking any more. So it can go back to non-existence again.

    What?

    What's so confusing? Many people don't like it when builds can hold vs 2 or even vs 1 player forever because it is boring.

    Because it's saying that scrapper shouldn't be good at the one thing it was designed to do. It's not like it's good at much else.

    The question then becomes, do we want any builds that are as tanky as scrapper is (with little effort too) to exist in the game at all?

    I mean, then it boils down to simple preference to answer that question. All I can say is that scrapper hasn't been a particularly good spec for engineer, because it wasn't until the med kit rework that it was relevant in PvE or WvW, and it wasn't until the gyro rework that it's been relevant in PvP since HoT days. It's been one of the more disappointing specs over time when compared to other elite specs.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • kittyfur.6459kittyfur.6459 Member ✭✭
    edited April 3, 2019

    "tanky" is just another word for unkillable. After witnessing 3-v-1 scrapper scenario and they STILL couldn't get rid of him, it's simply broken. Anyone arguing otherwise is being disingenuous or a troll. Pvp isn't meant to have 1 "tank" totally dominate a point. otherwise rename it to scrapperwars and then go back to wow. I don't see any other "tanks" being able to pull this off. That said i'm rolling a scrapper because i love abusing OP. (it's still broken though).

  • kittyfur.6459kittyfur.6459 Member ✭✭
    edited April 3, 2019

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Ralkuth.1456 said:
    So there's a missing link in your claim, and that is, how does a Scrapper getting countered and unable to matter, contribute to winning?
    Serious question. Because I can see the correlation but not the causation?
    Does this mean we should all try Scrapper because it passively makes you win more?

    You get it. Scrapper in the MaT semi-finals and up did not greatly matter nor contribute to winning, in the finals it was a 4v4 with a pointless Scrapper 1v1. We could have literally crossed out the word Scrapper and inserted Weaver, Druid, Firebrand, Boonbeast, possibly other duelist mirror matches that don't end ever. In the semi-finals despite K I D A going negative instead of being a non-contributor to winning, his team comp being all very weird sustain duelist variations on meta builds (Duelist tanky Rev, duelist Firebrand) but still managing to still get kills when outnumbering, and the sheer amount of decaps red team gave them were great contributors.

    If you somewhat know what you're doing when you analyze a match, you can see what strategies worked and didn't work, and K I D A's rifle Scrapper clearly did not work but lots of other things worked. The point focused duelist comp vs. rotational DPS comp was huge, even with a side-noder build & player like Boyce being an unfathomable level of effectiveness over K I D A (Or R O M) playing this really bad-fad rifle decap Engi

    If teams are smart and have the resources, we'll see this more duelist style team with double Chrono, possibly even the tanky Rev & duelist Firebrand, although I'm not completely sure if these specs are optimal outside of countering roamer comps. I am sold that this comp will counter the high DPS rotational comps we saw Trama/Boyce running, even if K I D A's team would have won harder if he was a Spellbreaker.

    @kittyfur.6459 said:
    Yeah it's clear it's too strong. Scrapper was able to easily hold a point being challenged by 2 enemy players, by itself, no problem. I've seen it many times now and i just returned to this game after 6 months off. I highly doubt all scrappers are magically "better" in skill than all other classes. it's simply OP. It's weird how GW can't seem to just correctly balance the game and leave it alone. They just OP one class, then OP another. Ticking off all the players who are both OP ( bc they dont want to lose it) and underpowered (who are sick of getting crushed). Is this really that much of rocket science? This constant balancing act is starting to reek of incompetence if you ask me. Get it RIGHT, once and for all. That's what the players want.

    I get you're morally outraged at and such, as I've said multiple times in this thread Bulwark Gyro since had a 33% barrier nerf since anyone has touched Scrapper so that will reduce the the teamfight, 1vX, and 1v1 power to where it's more likely to die in all scenarios. I'm not sure how this balancing act reeks of incompetence because they acted pretty fast and pretty fairly.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @bbop.9706 said:

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    You can tell people are figuring out how to deal with scrapper, last night my scrapper was constantly getting destroyed, never before have i had so many deaths on a scrapper in a single match

    No, this is probably because they hotfixed the bulwark barrier last night so it is just over half as good as it was.

    No. That's prob not it. Even with out fix a sic em ranger, fc warrior, burst mesmer, deadeye etc etc can basically 1 shot a scrapper when his cool downs are gone.

    You can literally see videos of this on you tube or twitch. It's also in the forums. This is pre fix.

    Just bad players don't understand when to use their skills write all these scrapper post.

    Which is why EU MAT the winning team was two chrono bunk, 1 scrapper, 1 support firebrand, and a Shiro+Glint Herald. The losing team had a holosmith instead of a 2nd chronobunker.

    Everyone assured me that Scrapper is garbage, that it'll never win a Monthly Automated Tournament, and that they die so easily if you play a build that can dump 30k damage into them in the span of three seconds. So why couldn't all those "EU Better than NA" pros who are MAT veterans and previous winners do anything about it?

    So you are going to compare corodinated teams to solo q? And you are basing the entire balance on 1 game? And 1 representation via a tiny sample size of a few players. Very logical...

    I am no pro. I am at plat. I play holo,scrap, warrior and ranger. I have zero problems demolishing scrapers on ranger and warrior. Sic really shoots through any block and finish with 11k whirling impact. This was against top 100 players that play scrap in solo q. There's more going on in ATs than just dps. Scrapper is totally killable and can be out rotated. I ve been testing rev lately too. Not as effective but can out dps scrap heals.

    I find that at no point in any of the post do you even consider some one else's opinions and really did not bother looking at videos that kills scrappers. Instead of suggesting x y z isn't viable you solely based your assuming on 1 AT game.

    At the same time you have previous wrote against all the classes and their skills that kill a scrapper calling for nerfs. While saying scrapper is Op. Insanely ironic.

    Instead of "every one assured me" maybe just maybe. Watch the kitten YouTube videos that show scrap being killed in seconds. Maybe you might learn something and just maybe see that there are multiple builds that can destroy scrap.

    Since it seems like you have an in ability to find such thing this is a YouTube vid. Showing you how it's done

    These players r plat 1-2. Which I feel really should translates to them knowing how to use thier skills mechanically with map awareness. Compared to say below g1 where players with the wrong builds smash into scrapper and do nothing then come on forums crying for nerfs

    And yes this is 1 dude. But there are many more videos. I d make a video but I don't have the time. And it's also a waste of time making it to show some one that you. You will find another excuse to want to Nerf a class that's not your main.

    Dismisses mAT and responds with plat 1 youtube video. What in the?

    Cos mATs are different.

    If both teams in mAT final use scrapper then it's probably pretty kitten good, you can't just dismiss it. Do you have an argument why, specifically, scrapper would be worse in a coordinated setting with voicecomms.

    Plat 1 and gold 3 are most of where people are. And this is what balance should be placed around.

    Fundamentally disagree on that. You can take lower rankings into consideration, but balance around higher-levels. In the same way, the majority of players are in PvE but I still think PvP balance is more important than PvE, because it is harder to get right and a lack of it negatively affects players more. I've reached plat 1 with core mes, it really means nothing.

    Further more. This shows that there are builds with enough bursts that can kill a scrapper in seconds. Regardless of rank.

    There are builds that can kill heavy golems in seconds, that's all you are saying. (if you are talking about power slb I would like to add that I personally think it is overtuned).

    The reference for plat1 is that these players know what skills they are using. N yet they can be 1 shotted. It doesn't matter if you are legendary. If the other class can 1 shot u thru before u can do anything. U r dead. Can't press buttons when dead.

    Co ordinationed MaTs are different. Since you can just play around the scrapper. You can watch and see that a team full of scrappers lost, which was done before on stream. You can also see that one was out rotated due to effective communication. You can also see if you actually watch some of these ATS. That scrappers are effectively killed in certain matches.

    There is diff a difference between different ranks. A silver 3 or gold 1 player will absolutely smash a build that doesn't kill scrapper into a scrapper then cry about it. A plat 1 player will more likely understand that it won't work and either go else where or use a build that will kill a scrapper.

    So you are telling me that scrapper is Op and can't be killed and when I tell you builds that can kill it with you tell me those builds are over turned? That doesn't make sense lol. Think about it? Logic much? "It's op because it can't 1vX except it can't 1vX against several builds but it doesn't matter because those builds are op" what? Lol. Like "rockets' can't fly, yes it can here's a video. Na it still can't fly. I am done. You can believe it's op all you want I don't care. I know many silvers that think it's op. They are still in silver it's hilarious.

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2019

    Actually chaith, what i heard was that boyce dueled angeels on his demoscrapper build. Also if you'd run a str spb in a 1v1 vs scrapper that war build would get punished by a +1 from rev/thief incredibly hard since they are very very squishy

    Now i haven't played but I heard anet touched bulwark etc? Which is good

    But all in all i don't personally care about how scrapper was in at/mat it's obnoxious in ranked and that's what you play most of the time.
    And yes I feel anet's way of balancing is wrong since powercreep/defensecreep needs to be toned down.

    The fact that a scrapper pre bulwark nerf could legit stand 1v2 and not dodge anything important and still survive kinda tells me how bad the balance is, if you can eat damage on purpose and not get punished for it is just l o l.

    The whole concept of having 1v1 builds that are endless stalemates is nothing but dumb. Give back cele shoutbow or any sort of 1v1 that actually ends due to the other one being better/outplaying etc.

    That's why I kinda liked phantarams idea behind copying wow with dampening or whatever its called eventually in 1v1's so they actually do end

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2019

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @bbop.9706 said:

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    You can tell people are figuring out how to deal with scrapper, last night my scrapper was constantly getting destroyed, never before have i had so many deaths on a scrapper in a single match

    No, this is probably because they hotfixed the bulwark barrier last night so it is just over half as good as it was.

    No. That's prob not it. Even with out fix a sic em ranger, fc warrior, burst mesmer, deadeye etc etc can basically 1 shot a scrapper when his cool downs are gone.

    You can literally see videos of this on you tube or twitch. It's also in the forums. This is pre fix.

    Just bad players don't understand when to use their skills write all these scrapper post.

    Which is why EU MAT the winning team was two chrono bunk, 1 scrapper, 1 support firebrand, and a Shiro+Glint Herald. The losing team had a holosmith instead of a 2nd chronobunker.

    Everyone assured me that Scrapper is garbage, that it'll never win a Monthly Automated Tournament, and that they die so easily if you play a build that can dump 30k damage into them in the span of three seconds. So why couldn't all those "EU Better than NA" pros who are MAT veterans and previous winners do anything about it?

    So you are going to compare corodinated teams to solo q? And you are basing the entire balance on 1 game? And 1 representation via a tiny sample size of a few players. Very logical...

    I am no pro. I am at plat. I play holo,scrap, warrior and ranger. I have zero problems demolishing scrapers on ranger and warrior. Sic really shoots through any block and finish with 11k whirling impact. This was against top 100 players that play scrap in solo q. There's more going on in ATs than just dps. Scrapper is totally killable and can be out rotated. I ve been testing rev lately too. Not as effective but can out dps scrap heals.

    I find that at no point in any of the post do you even consider some one else's opinions and really did not bother looking at videos that kills scrappers. Instead of suggesting x y z isn't viable you solely based your assuming on 1 AT game.

    At the same time you have previous wrote against all the classes and their skills that kill a scrapper calling for nerfs. While saying scrapper is Op. Insanely ironic.

    Instead of "every one assured me" maybe just maybe. Watch the kitten YouTube videos that show scrap being killed in seconds. Maybe you might learn something and just maybe see that there are multiple builds that can destroy scrap.

    Since it seems like you have an in ability to find such thing this is a YouTube vid. Showing you how it's done

    These players r plat 1-2. Which I feel really should translates to them knowing how to use thier skills mechanically with map awareness. Compared to say below g1 where players with the wrong builds smash into scrapper and do nothing then come on forums crying for nerfs

    And yes this is 1 dude. But there are many more videos. I d make a video but I don't have the time. And it's also a waste of time making it to show some one that you. You will find another excuse to want to Nerf a class that's not your main.

    Dismisses mAT and responds with plat 1 youtube video. What in the?

    Cos mATs are different.

    If both teams in mAT final use scrapper then it's probably pretty kitten good, you can't just dismiss it. Do you have an argument why, specifically, scrapper would be worse in a coordinated setting with voicecomms.

    Plat 1 and gold 3 are most of where people are. And this is what balance should be placed around.

    Fundamentally disagree on that. You can take lower rankings into consideration, but balance around higher-levels. In the same way, the majority of players are in PvE but I still think PvP balance is more important than PvE, because it is harder to get right and a lack of it negatively affects players more. I've reached plat 1 with core mes, it really means nothing.

    Further more. This shows that there are builds with enough bursts that can kill a scrapper in seconds. Regardless of rank.

    There are builds that can kill heavy golems in seconds, that's all you are saying. (if you are talking about power slb I would like to add that I personally think it is overtuned).

    The reference for plat1 is that these players know what skills they are using. N yet they can be 1 shotted. It doesn't matter if you are legendary. If the other class can 1 shot u thru before u can do anything. U r dead. Can't press buttons when dead.

    Co ordinationed MaTs are different. Since you can just play around the scrapper.

    Such a general statement can be said about any class.

    You can watch and see that a team full of scrappers lost, which was done before on stream.

    So?

    You can also see that one was out rotated due to effective communication. You can also see if you actually watch some of these ATS. That scrappers are effectively killed in certain matches.

    I love how you tried to subtly shame with the "if you actually watch these ATs".

    So you didn't give any good reasons why you can just dismiss AT winning teams out of convenience, got it. Basing your viewpoint simply on how you feel about it in gold ranked or on a youtube video is just madness.

    There is diff a difference between different ranks. A silver 3 or gold 1 player will absolutely smash a build that doesn't kill scrapper into a scrapper then cry about it. A plat 1 player will more likely understand that it won't work and either go else where or use a build that will kill a scrapper.

    And plat 3/legend player will be even more likely to do that. And AT players too. Yet you wish to look at gold3-plat1.

    So you are telling me that scrapper is Op and can't be killed and when I tell you builds that can kill it with you tell me those builds are over turned?

    Power slb has overtuned damage, this is obvious. Saying that "slb can kill scrapper just look at this kitten youtube video" is like saying "slb can kill svanir really quickly look!".

    That doesn't make sense lol. Think about it? Logic much? "It's op because it can't 1vX except it can't 1vX against several builds but it doesn't matter because those builds are op" what? Lol. Like "rockets' can't fly, yes it can here's a video. Na it still can't fly.

    And about 3 sentences of irrelevant nonsense, just repeats of what you already wrote.

    Why are you putting quotes around your own imagination? Pretty sure I didn't write that scrapper can 1vX vs everything.

    I am done. You can believe it's op all you want I don't care.

    Then why the essay?

    I know many silvers that think it's op. They are still in silver it's hilarious.

    Are you proud of being better than silvers, or what.

    This is legitimately a comment that you made:

    they can be 1 shotted. It doesn't matter if you are legendary. If the other class can 1 shot u thru before u can do anything. U r dead. Can't press buttons when dead.

    As if scrappers being oneshot is a realistic thing that happens in legend.

    // Yanim

  • megilandil.7506megilandil.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    problem is not scrapper can hold 1v1 1v2 1v3 or 1v50, problem is the same of cele ele, tank druid and mirage: they can live forever just runing in circles and ciclyng their skills in and infinite loop just as a PvE rotation and this is not how a pvp class have to work pvp is a mode of action/reaction not a kitten raid boss

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @megilandil.7506 said:
    problem is not scrapper can hold 1v1 1v2 1v3 or 1v50, problem is the same of cele ele, tank druid and mirage: they can live forever just runing in circles and ciclyng their skills in and infinite loop just as a PvE rotation and this is not how a pvp class have to work pvp is a mode of action/reaction not a kitten raid boss

    Exactly

    // Yanim

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bluri.2653 said:
    Actually chaith, what i heard was that boyce dueled angeels on his demoscrapper build. Also if you'd run a str spb in a 1v1 vs scrapper that war build would get punished by a +1 from rev/thief incredibly hard since they are very very squishy

    Now i haven't played but I heard anet touched bulwark etc? Which is good

    But all in all i don't personally care about how scrapper was in at/mat it's obnoxious in ranked and that's what you play most of the time.
    And yes I feel anet's way of balancing is wrong since powercreep/defensecreep needs to be toned down.

    The fact that a scrapper pre bulwark nerf could legit stand 1v2 and not dodge anything important and still survive kinda tells me how bad the balance is, if you can eat damage on purpose and not get punished for it is just l o l.

    The whole concept of having 1v1 builds that are endless stalemates is nothing but dumb. Give back cele shoutbow or any sort of 1v1 that actually ends due to the other one being better/outplaying etc.

    That's why I kinda liked phantarams idea behind copying wow with dampening or whatever its called eventually in 1v1's so they actually do end

    I agree with everything you're saying in this post. Its just that you found out how a proper matchup between Scrapper and a Strength Spellbreaker went after you said on stream that Scrapper was on the hype train beating everything 1v1 after talking to LeFrere. Some people were quoting you on that

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2019

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    Actually chaith, what i heard was that boyce dueled angeels on his demoscrapper build. Also if you'd run a str spb in a 1v1 vs scrapper that war build would get punished by a +1 from rev/thief incredibly hard since they are very very squishy

    Now i haven't played but I heard anet touched bulwark etc? Which is good

    But all in all i don't personally care about how scrapper was in at/mat it's obnoxious in ranked and that's what you play most of the time.
    And yes I feel anet's way of balancing is wrong since powercreep/defensecreep needs to be toned down.

    The fact that a scrapper pre bulwark nerf could legit stand 1v2 and not dodge anything important and still survive kinda tells me how bad the balance is, if you can eat damage on purpose and not get punished for it is just l o l.

    The whole concept of having 1v1 builds that are endless stalemates is nothing but dumb. Give back cele shoutbow or any sort of 1v1 that actually ends due to the other one being better/outplaying etc.

    That's why I kinda liked phantarams idea behind copying wow with dampening or whatever its called eventually in 1v1's so they actually do end

    I agree with everything you're saying in this post. Its just that you found out how a proper matchup between Scrapper and a Strength Spellbreaker went after you said on stream that Scrapper was on the hype train beating everything 1v1 after talking to LeFrere. Some people were quoting you on that

    If you mean me, I was only using it to question your claim that "no teams were considering bringing scrapper", not to suggest that sind/lefrere were accurate.

    // Yanim

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2019

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @bbop.9706 said:

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    You can tell people are figuring out how to deal with scrapper, last night my scrapper was constantly getting destroyed, never before have i had so many deaths on a scrapper in a single match

    No, this is probably because they hotfixed the bulwark barrier last night so it is just over half as good as it was.

    No. That's prob not it. Even with out fix a sic em ranger, fc warrior, burst mesmer, deadeye etc etc can basically 1 shot a scrapper when his cool downs are gone.

    You can literally see videos of this on you tube or twitch. It's also in the forums. This is pre fix.

    Just bad players don't understand when to use their skills write all these scrapper post.

    Which is why EU MAT the winning team was two chrono bunk, 1 scrapper, 1 support firebrand, and a Shiro+Glint Herald. The losing team had a holosmith instead of a 2nd chronobunker.

    Everyone assured me that Scrapper is garbage, that it'll never win a Monthly Automated Tournament, and that they die so easily if you play a build that can dump 30k damage into them in the span of three seconds. So why couldn't all those "EU Better than NA" pros who are MAT veterans and previous winners do anything about it?

    So you are going to compare corodinated teams to solo q? And you are basing the entire balance on 1 game? And 1 representation via a tiny sample size of a few players. Very logical...

    I am no pro. I am at plat. I play holo,scrap, warrior and ranger. I have zero problems demolishing scrapers on ranger and warrior. Sic really shoots through any block and finish with 11k whirling impact. This was against top 100 players that play scrap in solo q. There's more going on in ATs than just dps. Scrapper is totally killable and can be out rotated. I ve been testing rev lately too. Not as effective but can out dps scrap heals.

    I find that at no point in any of the post do you even consider some one else's opinions and really did not bother looking at videos that kills scrappers. Instead of suggesting x y z isn't viable you solely based your assuming on 1 AT game.

    At the same time you have previous wrote against all the classes and their skills that kill a scrapper calling for nerfs. While saying scrapper is Op. Insanely ironic.

    Instead of "every one assured me" maybe just maybe. Watch the kitten YouTube videos that show scrap being killed in seconds. Maybe you might learn something and just maybe see that there are multiple builds that can destroy scrap.

    Since it seems like you have an in ability to find such thing this is a YouTube vid. Showing you how it's done

    These players r plat 1-2. Which I feel really should translates to them knowing how to use thier skills mechanically with map awareness. Compared to say below g1 where players with the wrong builds smash into scrapper and do nothing then come on forums crying for nerfs

    And yes this is 1 dude. But there are many more videos. I d make a video but I don't have the time. And it's also a waste of time making it to show some one that you. You will find another excuse to want to Nerf a class that's not your main.

    Seems opinions have changed quite a bit now for you since I last read this thread.

    Actually not just you by the looks of it...

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @bbop.9706 said:

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    You can tell people are figuring out how to deal with scrapper, last night my scrapper was constantly getting destroyed, never before have i had so many deaths on a scrapper in a single match

    No, this is probably because they hotfixed the bulwark barrier last night so it is just over half as good as it was.

    No. That's prob not it. Even with out fix a sic em ranger, fc warrior, burst mesmer, deadeye etc etc can basically 1 shot a scrapper when his cool downs are gone.

    You can literally see videos of this on you tube or twitch. It's also in the forums. This is pre fix.

    Just bad players don't understand when to use their skills write all these scrapper post.

    Which is why EU MAT the winning team was two chrono bunk, 1 scrapper, 1 support firebrand, and a Shiro+Glint Herald. The losing team had a holosmith instead of a 2nd chronobunker.

    Everyone assured me that Scrapper is garbage, that it'll never win a Monthly Automated Tournament, and that they die so easily if you play a build that can dump 30k damage into them in the span of three seconds. So why couldn't all those "EU Better than NA" pros who are MAT veterans and previous winners do anything about it?

    So you are going to compare corodinated teams to solo q? And you are basing the entire balance on 1 game? And 1 representation via a tiny sample size of a few players. Very logical...

    I am no pro. I am at plat. I play holo,scrap, warrior and ranger. I have zero problems demolishing scrapers on ranger and warrior. Sic really shoots through any block and finish with 11k whirling impact. This was against top 100 players that play scrap in solo q. There's more going on in ATs than just dps. Scrapper is totally killable and can be out rotated. I ve been testing rev lately too. Not as effective but can out dps scrap heals.

    I find that at no point in any of the post do you even consider some one else's opinions and really did not bother looking at videos that kills scrappers. Instead of suggesting x y z isn't viable you solely based your assuming on 1 AT game.

    At the same time you have previous wrote against all the classes and their skills that kill a scrapper calling for nerfs. While saying scrapper is Op. Insanely ironic.

    Instead of "every one assured me" maybe just maybe. Watch the kitten YouTube videos that show scrap being killed in seconds. Maybe you might learn something and just maybe see that there are multiple builds that can destroy scrap.

    Since it seems like you have an in ability to find such thing this is a YouTube vid. Showing you how it's done

    These players r plat 1-2. Which I feel really should translates to them knowing how to use thier skills mechanically with map awareness. Compared to say below g1 where players with the wrong builds smash into scrapper and do nothing then come on forums crying for nerfs

    And yes this is 1 dude. But there are many more videos. I d make a video but I don't have the time. And it's also a waste of time making it to show some one that you. You will find another excuse to want to Nerf a class that's not your main.

    Dismisses mAT and responds with plat 1 youtube video. What in the?

    Cos mATs are different. Plat 1 and gold 3 are most of where people are.

    Actually Ben P has confirmed that Gold 1 is the middle of the bell curve.

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    I don't think I can actually post a screen of the bell curve, but it's pretty standard bell curve in general with the middle being between 1200-1250. While there are actually more bronze than legendary. But as a part of the whole population, the number of bronze players is very small.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/811056#Comment_811056

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive.

    Between Scrappers being on both finalist teams in the last MAT and two scrapper mains showings currently in the top 10 on NA we're well beyond only mirages having trouble with them but okay.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive.

    Between Scrappers being on both finalist teams in the last MAT and two scrapper mains showings currently in the top 10 on NA we're well beyond only mirages having trouble with them but okay.

    So if that's the criteria, it means that every single class in top 10 on NA and on both teams in the last MAT are OP. Nice logic! Boy am I glad you're not in the balance team.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive.

    Between Scrappers being on both finalist teams in the last MAT and two scrapper mains showings currently in the top 10 on NA we're well beyond only mirages having trouble with them but okay.

    So if that's the criteria, it means that every single class in top 10 on NA and on both teams in the last MAT are OP. Nice logic! Boy am I glad you're not in the balance team.

    Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive.

    Between Scrappers being on both finalist teams in the last MAT and two scrapper mains showings currently in the top 10 on NA we're well beyond only mirages having trouble with them but okay.

    So if that's the criteria, it means that every single class in top 10 on NA and on both teams in the last MAT are OP. Nice logic! Boy am I glad you're not in the balance team.

    Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel.

    I like the fact that you feel the need to try and derail the topic when you're clearly loosing the argument. But by all means, talk about me.

    Edit: calling me names next would suit you well.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive.

    Between Scrappers being on both finalist teams in the last MAT and two scrapper mains showings currently in the top 10 on NA we're well beyond only mirages having trouble with them but okay.

    So if that's the criteria, it means that every single class in top 10 on NA and on both teams in the last MAT are OP. Nice logic! Boy am I glad you're not in the balance team.

    Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel.

    I like the fact that you feel the need to try and derail the topic when you're clearly loosing the argument. But by all means, talk about me.

    You point initial point was that only mirages are complaining about scrapper. I pointed out how it's performing well in the meta as a whole, with a MAT win under its belt and excellent showings in the top 250 and in the top 10 in particularly and therefor by definition, it's not only mirages complaining about scrappers, its doing well against most things in general.

    You saying "Who cares if it's performing well!? That doesn't matter." is far more of a derail than my post. All I did was acknowledge that you were derailing.

    Edit: calling me names next would suit you well.

    That's really more your style.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive.

    Between Scrappers being on both finalist teams in the last MAT and two scrapper mains showings currently in the top 10 on NA we're well beyond only mirages having trouble with them but okay.

    So if that's the criteria, it means that every single class in top 10 on NA and on both teams in the last MAT are OP. Nice logic! Boy am I glad you're not in the balance team.

    Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel.

    I like the fact that you feel the need to try and derail the topic when you're clearly loosing the argument. But by all means, talk about me.

    You point initial point was that only mirages are complaining about scrapper. I pointed out how it's performing well in the meta as a whole, with a MAT win under its belt and excellent showings in the top 250 and in the top 10 in particularly and therefor by definition, it's not only mirages complaining about scrappers, its doing well against most things in general.

    You saying "Who cares if it's performing well!? That doesn't matter." is far more of a derail than my post. All I did was acknowledge that you were derailing.

    Edit: calling me names next would suit you well.

    That's really more your style.

    OK then you're not a mesmer main, who is saying that scrapper is OP?
    It's not only scrapper in top 10 and/or top 250. Why is scrapper being there means that it's OP? I don't get it. By that logic, again, every class in top 10 (which changes btw) is OP? Please say no.

    No It's not my style. I don't care how do you feel about me so I don't start judging you as a person. Trying my best to stay on topic here. Unlike you.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive.

    Between Scrappers being on both finalist teams in the last MAT and two scrapper mains showings currently in the top 10 on NA we're well beyond only mirages having trouble with them but okay.

    So if that's the criteria, it means that every single class in top 10 on NA and on both teams in the last MAT are OP. Nice logic! Boy am I glad you're not in the balance team.

    Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel.

    I like the fact that you feel the need to try and derail the topic when you're clearly loosing the argument. But by all means, talk about me.

    You point initial point was that only mirages are complaining about scrapper. I pointed out how it's performing well in the meta as a whole, with a MAT win under its belt and excellent showings in the top 250 and in the top 10 in particularly and therefor by definition, it's not only mirages complaining about scrappers, its doing well against most things in general.

    You saying "Who cares if it's performing well!? That doesn't matter." is far more of a derail than my post. All I did was acknowledge that you were derailing.

    Edit: calling me names next would suit you well.

    That's really more your style.

    No It's not my style. I don't care how do you feel about me so I don't start judging you as a person. Trying my best to stay on topic here. Unlike you.

    "I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive."

    Isn't exactly a polite, reasonable, on topic way of joining discussion a thread that for the past few pages has been pretty calm overall.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive.

    Between Scrappers being on both finalist teams in the last MAT and two scrapper mains showings currently in the top 10 on NA we're well beyond only mirages having trouble with them but okay.

    So if that's the criteria, it means that every single class in top 10 on NA and on both teams in the last MAT are OP. Nice logic! Boy am I glad you're not in the balance team.

    Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel.

    I like the fact that you feel the need to try and derail the topic when you're clearly loosing the argument. But by all means, talk about me.

    You point initial point was that only mirages are complaining about scrapper. I pointed out how it's performing well in the meta as a whole, with a MAT win under its belt and excellent showings in the top 250 and in the top 10 in particularly and therefor by definition, it's not only mirages complaining about scrappers, its doing well against most things in general.

    You saying "Who cares if it's performing well!? That doesn't matter." is far more of a derail than my post. All I did was acknowledge that you were derailing.

    Edit: calling me names next would suit you well.

    That's really more your style.

    No It's not my style. I don't care how do you feel about me so I don't start judging you as a person. Trying my best to stay on topic here. Unlike you.

    "I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive."

    Isn't exactly a polite, reasonable, on topic way of joining discussion a thread that for the past few pages has been pretty calm overall.

    And I dont get part of mirage being countered by scrapper... everyone who dislike scrapper became mirage players now ? Why so aggressive

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive.

    Between Scrappers being on both finalist teams in the last MAT and two scrapper mains showings currently in the top 10 on NA we're well beyond only mirages having trouble with them but okay.

    So if that's the criteria, it means that every single class in top 10 on NA and on both teams in the last MAT are OP. Nice logic! Boy am I glad you're not in the balance team.

    Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel.

    I like the fact that you feel the need to try and derail the topic when you're clearly loosing the argument. But by all means, talk about me.

    You point initial point was that only mirages are complaining about scrapper. I pointed out how it's performing well in the meta as a whole, with a MAT win under its belt and excellent showings in the top 250 and in the top 10 in particularly and therefor by definition, it's not only mirages complaining about scrappers, its doing well against most things in general.

    You saying "Who cares if it's performing well!? That doesn't matter." is far more of a derail than my post. All I did was acknowledge that you were derailing.

    Edit: calling me names next would suit you well.

    That's really more your style.

    No It's not my style. I don't care how do you feel about me so I don't start judging you as a person. Trying my best to stay on topic here. Unlike you.

    "I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive."

    Isn't exactly a polite, reasonable, on topic way of joining discussion a thread that for the past few pages has been pretty calm overall.

    What can I say, sorry you hurt your feelings. I did not say that to you personally. And searching for an excuse for calling me names indirectly is quite cute I must admit. Now go search all my post history, find the ones that can "prove" your point and quote those.

    Still not convinced though. I'm sure I am not the only one that thinks being in top 10 or top 250 or on MAT is a reason for calling a class OP.

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive.

    Between Scrappers being on both finalist teams in the last MAT and two scrapper mains showings currently in the top 10 on NA we're well beyond only mirages having trouble with them but okay.

    So if that's the criteria, it means that every single class in top 10 on NA and on both teams in the last MAT are OP. Nice logic! Boy am I glad you're not in the balance team.

    Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel.

    I like the fact that you feel the need to try and derail the topic when you're clearly loosing the argument. But by all means, talk about me.

    You point initial point was that only mirages are complaining about scrapper. I pointed out how it's performing well in the meta as a whole, with a MAT win under its belt and excellent showings in the top 250 and in the top 10 in particularly and therefor by definition, it's not only mirages complaining about scrappers, its doing well against most things in general.

    You saying "Who cares if it's performing well!? That doesn't matter." is far more of a derail than my post. All I did was acknowledge that you were derailing.

    Edit: calling me names next would suit you well.

    That's really more your style.

    No It's not my style. I don't care how do you feel about me so I don't start judging you as a person. Trying my best to stay on topic here. Unlike you.

    "I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive."

    Isn't exactly a polite, reasonable, on topic way of joining discussion a thread that for the past few pages has been pretty calm overall.

    And I dont get part of mirage being countered by scrapper... everyone who dislike scrapper became mirage players now ? Why so aggressive

    Aggressive? Where? Also, not only mirage mains cry about scrapper, that's for sure. They are just the loudest.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2019

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive.

    Between Scrappers being on both finalist teams in the last MAT and two scrapper mains showings currently in the top 10 on NA we're well beyond only mirages having trouble with them but okay.

    So if that's the criteria, it means that every single class in top 10 on NA and on both teams in the last MAT are OP. Nice logic! Boy am I glad you're not in the balance team.

    Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel.

    I like the fact that you feel the need to try and derail the topic when you're clearly loosing the argument. But by all means, talk about me.

    You point initial point was that only mirages are complaining about scrapper. I pointed out how it's performing well in the meta as a whole, with a MAT win under its belt and excellent showings in the top 250 and in the top 10 in particularly and therefor by definition, it's not only mirages complaining about scrappers, its doing well against most things in general.

    You saying "Who cares if it's performing well!? That doesn't matter." is far more of a derail than my post. All I did was acknowledge that you were derailing.

    Edit: calling me names next would suit you well.

    That's really more your style.

    No It's not my style. I don't care how do you feel about me so I don't start judging you as a person. Trying my best to stay on topic here. Unlike you.

    "I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive."

    Isn't exactly a polite, reasonable, on topic way of joining discussion a thread that for the past few pages has been pretty calm overall.

    And I dont get part of mirage being countered by scrapper... everyone who dislike scrapper became mirage players now ? Why so aggressive

    Aggressive? Where? Also, not only mirage mains cry about scrapper, that's for sure. They are just the loudest.

    How come ? Thread was made by some rev guy from the start. I'm not keeping an eye on the thread ,sorry. Can you demonstrate that 'mirage' mains are loudest... ?
    As mirage player I'm fine for not being able to beat scrapper because it has so much tools to completely counter me meanwhile they cant chase me and oneslap me . Meanwhile if you ask me if I hate holos... I would say YES
    You became pretty much...aggresive... since mort replied to you,to him, at least

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2019

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive.

    Between Scrappers being on both finalist teams in the last MAT and two scrapper mains showings currently in the top 10 on NA we're well beyond only mirages having trouble with them but okay.

    So if that's the criteria, it means that every single class in top 10 on NA and on both teams in the last MAT are OP. Nice logic! Boy am I glad you're not in the balance team.

    Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel.

    I like the fact that you feel the need to try and derail the topic when you're clearly loosing the argument. But by all means, talk about me.

    You point initial point was that only mirages are complaining about scrapper. I pointed out how it's performing well in the meta as a whole, with a MAT win under its belt and excellent showings in the top 250 and in the top 10 in particularly and therefor by definition, it's not only mirages complaining about scrappers, its doing well against most things in general.

    You saying "Who cares if it's performing well!? That doesn't matter." is far more of a derail than my post. All I did was acknowledge that you were derailing.

    Edit: calling me names next would suit you well.

    That's really more your style.

    No It's not my style. I don't care how do you feel about me so I don't start judging you as a person. Trying my best to stay on topic here. Unlike you.

    "I see we're still discussing the "Omg! Scrapper counters my mirage! IMOSIBBBLU! UNACCEPTABLU!" thread. How productive."

    Isn't exactly a polite, reasonable, on topic way of joining discussion a thread that for the past few pages has been pretty calm overall.

    And I dont get part of mirage being countered by scrapper... everyone who dislike scrapper became mirage players now ? Why so aggressive

    Aggressive? Where? Also, not only mirage mains cry about scrapper, that's for sure. They are just the loudest.

    How come ? Thread was made by some rev guy from the start. I'm not keeping an eye on the thread ,sorry. Can you demonstrate that 'mirage' mains are loudest... ?
    As mirage player I'm fine for not being able to beat scrapper because it has so much tools to completely counter me meanwhile they cant chase me and oneslap me . Meanwhile if you ask me if I hate holos... I would say YES
    You became pretty much...aggresive... since mort replied to you,to him, at least

    You can have a look at similar "scrapper is op" threads, but I'm quite sure you won't.
    At least you know that it is possible to win vs scrapper, not just claim it's OP and demand the nerf, that, in my eyes, is a very good thing. Not a lot of people seem to think that it's a bad idea to fight vs a bunker in the first place.

    Edit: How would you reply to someone saying "Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel."?

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2019

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    You can have a look at similar "scrapper is op" threads, but I'm quite sure you won't.
    At least you know that it is possible to win vs scrapper, not just claim it's OP and demand the nerf, that, in my eyes, is a very good thing. Not a lot of people seem to think that it's a bad idea to fight vs a bunker in the first place.

    Edit: How would you reply to someone saying "Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel."?

    I dislike scrapper as well but I just dont care about this elite spec...somehow...
    You might hate me as well but you seems to be hostile/passive aggresive out of the blue.
    I dont know actually. its probably because of the mesmer hate and how you treat them?

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    You can have a look at similar "scrapper is op" threads, but I'm quite sure you won't.
    At least you know that it is possible to win vs scrapper, not just claim it's OP and demand the nerf, that, in my eyes, is a very good thing. Not a lot of people seem to think that it's a bad idea to fight vs a bunker in the first place.

    Edit: How would you reply to someone saying "Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel."?

    I dislike scrapper as well but I just dont care about this elite spec...somehow...
    You might hate me as well but you seems to be hostile/passive aggresive out of the blue.
    I dont know actually. its probably because of the mesmer hate and how you treat them?

    It's not out of the blue. Had several answers from him in several ropics and he's not very kind to say the least.
    I do dislike mesmers, yes. And I often argue with people who think that mesmer is not OP.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    You can have a look at similar "scrapper is op" threads, but I'm quite sure you won't.
    At least you know that it is possible to win vs scrapper, not just claim it's OP and demand the nerf, that, in my eyes, is a very good thing. Not a lot of people seem to think that it's a bad idea to fight vs a bunker in the first place.

    Edit: How would you reply to someone saying "Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel."?

    I dislike scrapper as well but I just dont care about this elite spec...somehow...
    You might hate me as well but you seems to be hostile/passive aggresive out of the blue.
    I dont know actually. its probably because of the mesmer hate and how you treat them?

    It's not out of the blue. Had several answers from him in several ropics and he's not very kind to say the least.
    I do dislike mesmers, yes. And I often argue with people who think that mesmer is not OP.

    Mesmer entirely ? Specific things? You probably would argue with me as well if you would tell me they didnt overnerf axe and nerf core every patch as well, but oh well ,this thread about scraps and even Sind replied ,you can watch his post as well

  • DaShi.1368DaShi.1368 Member ✭✭✭

    Basically, his feelings were hurt so now he hates anyone who he thinks is a mesmer main. Also, anyone he hates he accuses as a mesmer main. What's worse that being called a mesmer main, right?

  • Twilight Tempest.7584Twilight Tempest.7584 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2019

    Are there currently any specs besides Scrapper where if they play their role correctly it's basically gg if the other team lacks any of the proper builds to counter it?

  • DaShi.1368DaShi.1368 Member ✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    You can have a look at similar "scrapper is op" threads, but I'm quite sure you won't.

    You want him to find the evidence that you can't to support your claim?

    Edit: How would you reply to someone saying "Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel."?

    Personally, I'd just ignore it. It's true, so maybe think about it?

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    You can have a look at similar "scrapper is op" threads, but I'm quite sure you won't.
    At least you know that it is possible to win vs scrapper, not just claim it's OP and demand the nerf, that, in my eyes, is a very good thing. Not a lot of people seem to think that it's a bad idea to fight vs a bunker in the first place.

    Edit: How would you reply to someone saying "Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel."?

    I dislike scrapper as well but I just dont care about this elite spec...somehow...
    You might hate me as well but you seems to be hostile/passive aggresive out of the blue.
    I dont know actually. its probably because of the mesmer hate and how you treat them?

    It's not out of the blue. Had several answers from him in several ropics and he's not very kind to say the least.
    I do dislike mesmers, yes. And I often argue with people who think that mesmer is not OP.

    Mesmer entirely ? Specific things? You probably would argue with me as well if you would tell me they didnt overnerf axe and nerf core every patch as well, but oh well ,this thread about scraps and even Sind replied ,you can watch his post as well

    I think they overnerfed the damage which is not even the worst part of mesmer. So I do agree with you on the axe nerf.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    You can have a look at similar "scrapper is op" threads, but I'm quite sure you won't.
    At least you know that it is possible to win vs scrapper, not just claim it's OP and demand the nerf, that, in my eyes, is a very good thing. Not a lot of people seem to think that it's a bad idea to fight vs a bunker in the first place.

    Edit: How would you reply to someone saying "Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel."?

    I dislike scrapper as well but I just dont care about this elite spec...somehow...
    You might hate me as well but you seems to be hostile/passive aggresive out of the blue.
    I dont know actually. its probably because of the mesmer hate and how you treat them?

    It's not out of the blue. Had several answers from him in several ropics and he's not very kind to say the least.
    I do dislike mesmers, yes. And I often argue with people who think that mesmer is not OP.

    Mesmer entirely ? Specific things? You probably would argue with me as well if you would tell me they didnt overnerf axe and nerf core every patch as well, but oh well ,this thread about scraps and even Sind replied ,you can watch his post as well

    I think they overnerfed the damage which is not even the worst part of mesmer. So I do agree with you on the axe nerf.

    I'm slightly curious what is the worst part of mesmer ?

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    You can have a look at similar "scrapper is op" threads, but I'm quite sure you won't.
    At least you know that it is possible to win vs scrapper, not just claim it's OP and demand the nerf, that, in my eyes, is a very good thing. Not a lot of people seem to think that it's a bad idea to fight vs a bunker in the first place.

    Edit: How would you reply to someone saying "Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel."?

    I dislike scrapper as well but I just dont care about this elite spec...somehow...
    You might hate me as well but you seems to be hostile/passive aggresive out of the blue.
    I dont know actually. its probably because of the mesmer hate and how you treat them?

    It's not out of the blue. Had several answers from him in several ropics and he's not very kind to say the least.
    I do dislike mesmers, yes. And I often argue with people who think that mesmer is not OP.

    Mesmer entirely ? Specific things? You probably would argue with me as well if you would tell me they didnt overnerf axe and nerf core every patch as well, but oh well ,this thread about scraps and even Sind replied ,you can watch his post as well

    I think they overnerfed the damage which is not even the worst part of mesmer. So I do agree with you on the axe nerf.

    I'm slightly curious what is the worst part of mesmer ?

    You can't win now can you? I will give you my reasons, then we will talk about my rating, if you enven find my reasons to be good enough. But then there will still be a way to discredit my thoughts about mesmers even though this is a scrapper topic.
    But now you will say "no, ofc not lol" so yeah.

    The whole reason I don't like people saying scrapper is op is because I personally can beat scrapper. And trust me, if I can - anyone can.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2019

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    You can have a look at similar "scrapper is op" threads, but I'm quite sure you won't.
    At least you know that it is possible to win vs scrapper, not just claim it's OP and demand the nerf, that, in my eyes, is a very good thing. Not a lot of people seem to think that it's a bad idea to fight vs a bunker in the first place.

    Edit: How would you reply to someone saying "Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel."?

    I dislike scrapper as well but I just dont care about this elite spec...somehow...
    You might hate me as well but you seems to be hostile/passive aggresive out of the blue.
    I dont know actually. its probably because of the mesmer hate and how you treat them?

    It's not out of the blue. Had several answers from him in several ropics and he's not very kind to say the least.
    I do dislike mesmers, yes. And I often argue with people who think that mesmer is not OP.

    Mesmer entirely ? Specific things? You probably would argue with me as well if you would tell me they didnt overnerf axe and nerf core every patch as well, but oh well ,this thread about scraps and even Sind replied ,you can watch his post as well

    I think they overnerfed the damage which is not even the worst part of mesmer. So I do agree with you on the axe nerf.

    I'm slightly curious what is the worst part of mesmer ?

    You can't win now can you? I will give you my reasons, then we will talk about my rating, if you enven find my reasons to be good enough. But then there will still be a way to discredit my thoughts about mesmers even though this is a scrapper topic.
    But now you will say "no, ofc not lol" so yeah.

    The whole reason I don't like people saying scrapper is op is because I personally can beat scrapper. And trust me, if I can - anyone can.

    Dude, if you wont be offensive/hateful on me I'd like to know ,thats it . We also can talk it out in private messages to not do so In scrapper dedicated thread.
    About beating scrapper... there is 2 kind of people , from Trevor video which proves ppl indeed die when they dont dodge anything and just die or people that actually use skills and evades. (I also killed some bad scrappers even with mirage, other scrappers that were clearly better I couldnt do anything and just ran away).

  • DaShi.1368DaShi.1368 Member ✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    You can have a look at similar "scrapper is op" threads, but I'm quite sure you won't.
    At least you know that it is possible to win vs scrapper, not just claim it's OP and demand the nerf, that, in my eyes, is a very good thing. Not a lot of people seem to think that it's a bad idea to fight vs a bunker in the first place.

    Edit: How would you reply to someone saying "Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel."?

    I dislike scrapper as well but I just dont care about this elite spec...somehow...
    You might hate me as well but you seems to be hostile/passive aggresive out of the blue.
    I dont know actually. its probably because of the mesmer hate and how you treat them?

    It's not out of the blue. Had several answers from him in several ropics and he's not very kind to say the least.
    I do dislike mesmers, yes. And I often argue with people who think that mesmer is not OP.

    Mesmer entirely ? Specific things? You probably would argue with me as well if you would tell me they didnt overnerf axe and nerf core every patch as well, but oh well ,this thread about scraps and even Sind replied ,you can watch his post as well

    I think they overnerfed the damage which is not even the worst part of mesmer. So I do agree with you on the axe nerf.

    I'm slightly curious what is the worst part of mesmer ?

    You can't win now can you? I will give you my reasons, then we will talk about my rating, if you enven find my reasons to be good enough. But then there will still be a way to discredit my thoughts about mesmers even though this is a scrapper topic.
    But now you will say "no, ofc not lol" so yeah.

    The whole reason I don't like people saying scrapper is op is because I personally can beat scrapper. And trust me, if I can - anyone can.

    We really are all out to get you

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DaShi.1368 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:
    You can have a look at similar "scrapper is op" threads, but I'm quite sure you won't.
    At least you know that it is possible to win vs scrapper, not just claim it's OP and demand the nerf, that, in my eyes, is a very good thing. Not a lot of people seem to think that it's a bad idea to fight vs a bunker in the first place.

    Edit: How would you reply to someone saying "Such a hostile, petty, passive aggressive little response when all I did was point out it performs well in general. Its amusing how personally attacked you feel."?

    I dislike scrapper as well but I just dont care about this elite spec...somehow...
    You might hate me as well but you seems to be hostile/passive aggresive out of the blue.
    I dont know actually. its probably because of the mesmer hate and how you treat them?

    It's not out of the blue. Had several answers from him in several ropics and he's not very kind to say the least.
    I do dislike mesmers, yes. And I often argue with people who think that mesmer is not OP.

    Mesmer entirely ? Specific things? You probably would argue with me as well if you would tell me they didnt overnerf axe and nerf core every patch as well, but oh well ,this thread about scraps and even Sind replied ,you can watch his post as well

    I think they overnerfed the damage which is not even the worst part of mesmer. So I do agree with you on the axe nerf.

    I'm slightly curious what is the worst part of mesmer ?

    You can't win now can you? I will give you my reasons, then we will talk about my rating, if you enven find my reasons to be good enough. But then there will still be a way to discredit my thoughts about mesmers even though this is a scrapper topic.
    But now you will say "no, ofc not lol" so yeah.

    The whole reason I don't like people saying scrapper is op is because I personally can beat scrapper. And trust me, if I can - anyone can.

    We really are all out to get you

    K. Bye!

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Ario.8964 said:
    Why are you all still posting in this thread? Any relevance it had is gone. Scrapper already got the nerfs I said it needed and it's fine. Stop posting in here.

    Still super easy, boring spec that should be nerfed.

    So it can go back to uselessness again? At least now it has a place, even if it's not particularly noteworthy.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • I think it's fun.
    In the lobby I had some fights against holos and warriors which just stopped at some point and chose a different opponent.
    On the other hand, really glassy builds, which were a hunter, a reaper and a mesmer actually died against me. I felt ignored by a number of players, though. ^^

    I agree that this is problematic in hold-the-flag game modes, but even then enemies can group up to decap and easily defend against a barrier/protection based scrapper. Glassy one-shot builds should go fight someone they can one-shot. If the majority of the points is done via kills, then good scrappers will only contribute well, if enemy glass canons deny learning.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Ario.8964 said:
    Why are you all still posting in this thread? Any relevance it had is gone. Scrapper already got the nerfs I said it needed and it's fine. Stop posting in here.

    Still super easy, boring spec that should be nerfed.

    So it can go back to uselessness again? At least now it has a place, even if it's not particularly noteworthy.

    Being a part of both finalist teams in the MAT is pretty noteworthy.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

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