Warclaw killed WvW for me — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Warclaw killed WvW for me

KingPuki.1075KingPuki.1075 Member ✭✭

I really love WvW but we have seen so many changes noone that plays WvW asked for. First the removal of the giant lake and underwater combat (bloodlust) Then we got shield gens, were again noone asked for. Then we got the infamous gliding in wvw, and now as a cherry on the cake we got the kitten mounts. Remember folks when Anet said we were gonna have a amazing anouncement, and everyone said: Please for the love of lyssa NO MOUNTS!!!!! And we got em anyways, and they're destroying our game mode, and our mechanics we fell in love with.

I just don't enjoy the mount in WvW, i've tryed it yesterday and today, and it just doesn't feel right..

Please bring back old school WvW!!

<134

Comments

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:

    @HazyDaisy.4107 said:
    They asked for new blood...

    They asked for a way to finish downs faster...

    They complained about mesmer and thief dominating roaming/ganking/whatever trendy term is used to describe that these days....

    They said wvw was lacking fights in every tier and there were never any ques...

    They got mounts and complain about:

    Pvers...

    Downs being finished faster

    Mobility classes being at a disadvantage in roaming

    Lag and ques...

    PVErs where 90% of them join only to get a mount aka karma train to finish reward track. Durr hurr.

    No personal skill requirement + extremely high reward for finishing downies by a mount - balanced according to you. Might as well remove downie status and instantly die when your HP is gone.

    Classes being at disadvantage is either players poor build/class choice or simply poor balancing.

    Lag wont be removed cause cashing in for gemstore via mounts is more important.

    Just for the sake of argument - a mount is suppose to be a simple transport tool, not a freaking sports car with the capability to kill everyone on a large scale.

    You still have to put ability points in the mount. That’s not going to happen overnight.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:

    @HazyDaisy.4107 said:
    They asked for new blood...

    They asked for a way to finish downs faster...

    They complained about mesmer and thief dominating roaming/ganking/whatever trendy term is used to describe that these days....

    They said wvw was lacking fights in every tier and there were never any ques...

    They got mounts and complain about:

    Pvers...

    Downs being finished faster

    Mobility classes being at a disadvantage in roaming

    Lag and ques...

    PVErs where 90% of them join only to get a mount aka karma train to finish reward track. Durr hurr.

    No personal skill requirement + extremely high reward for finishing downies by a mount - balanced according to you. Might as well remove downie status and instantly die when your HP is gone.

    Classes being at disadvantage is either players poor build/class choice or simply poor balancing.

    Lag wont be removed cause cashing in for gemstore via mounts is more important.

    Just for the sake of argument - a mount is suppose to be a simple transport tool, not a freaking sports car with the capability to kill everyone on a large scale.

    You still have to put ability points in the mount. That’s not going to happen overnight.

    Except a truck load of players have been running around with thousands of ability points for years cause theres simply nothing else to put them on.
    Even i got somewhat extra 800 spare ability points remaining regardless having every other ability maxed out.

    Sure for WvW players, but a PVE who never stepped foot into WvW wont have access.

  • Drecien.4508Drecien.4508 Member ✭✭✭

    They not that fast. Running on a herald with speed skill Active is barely slower. All this hyperbole.

    New mount skins?! Anet take my money!

  • Fish.2769Fish.2769 Member ✭✭✭

    @Drecien.4508 said:
    They not that fast. Running on a herald with speed skill Active is barely slower. All this hyperbole.

    When in an enemy zone sure, not when in a zone you own, people on foot even with swiftness get left in the dust.

  • Drecien.4508Drecien.4508 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fish.2769 said:

    @Drecien.4508 said:
    They not that fast. Running on a herald with speed skill Active is barely slower. All this hyperbole.

    When in an enemy zone sure, not when in a zone you own, people on foot even with swiftness get left in the dust.

    Then time to mount up

    New mount skins?! Anet take my money!

  • Dragonzhunter.8506Dragonzhunter.8506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fish.2769 said:

    @Drecien.4508 said:
    They not that fast. Running on a herald with speed skill Active is barely slower. All this hyperbole.

    When in an enemy zone sure, not when in a zone you own, people on foot even with swiftness get left in the dust.

    No, they are not so fast, they are fast but not too fast. I am Soulbeast, with speed buff on me, and 2 swoop (1 from Eagle and 1 from Greatsword) I can run shoulder to shoulder with Warclaw. I bet the thief with shortbow can run faster than me, and I think also the warrior with Greatsword and Sword and some utilities can run faster too.
    So, for a mount, Warclaw is not so faster or faster than some classes can be. He is faster than 33% speed, but not faster than some classes with some special abilities.

  • pls reduce warclaw endurance bars

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

    @coro.3176 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

    I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

    Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

    The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

    I would suggest the following:

    • Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
    • Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.

    Something to consider is that mounted players have 11k health with no condi cleanse, which is easy pickings for a condi build. I'm playing a low stealth condi trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD, on my P/D set I have geomancy and doom sigils. So one of my burst combos is steal -> weapon swap -> P/D 3, this applies 6 stacks of poison and confusion, 4 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of bleed, which is enough to reliably dismount the rider in 4-5 ticks. The durations are high enough to still be ticking after they dismount unless they run cleansing sigil, forcing a cleanse straight off, and I've only burnt steal and weapon swap. So yeah, the way to force a dismount is a good condition spike.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Drecien.4508Drecien.4508 Member ✭✭✭

    .

    Then people come in here and make fun of wvw'ers, you all need to change with the times man! they're great I can avoid everyone! I can one shot downs! producing more dumb excuses to defend it than gliders, an hour later they're probably sitting afk on their warclaw in lion's arch fishing for compliments with the cat and their outfit. Meanwhile it's the second day 8pm est and there's only a 15 man queue to ebg, business back to usual, yeah great job getting people to wvw, first skin should be out next week, enjoy.

    The mounts won't tear down a gate with out help. And yes it should make people play in new ways. I'm tired for years now logging into a siege/repair war. Or try to get to a tower to defend and have some cheese build troll killing you or contesting the wp. If they want to play trash builds they can, but now we can bypass them. If they keep the wp contested forever, we can still get to the tower on time. So new strategies and builds will have to be used. Let all that stale air out.

    New mount skins?! Anet take my money!

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    30 Beautiful new mount skins?! Anet take my money!

    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon."
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WoAH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Was doubtful about the mount (and my main concern about lag is still a concern), but I love it. Now to wait for my Maine kitten warclaw skin.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    if all u Mount hating Wvwler are such a huge and united group im sure u can just not use them the 1-3 pveler who accidently came into ur game mode will not bother u much.

    What no u all use that mount now because its faster than running ? oh what a surprise

    btw where is ur huge mount lag ?

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2019

    @jakt.9381 said:
    My opinion... this mount is complete garbage.

    No more kiting.
    No more picking the tail of zergs.
    No more havoc stopping reinforcements.

    Nope, these things still happen, not as frequent, but they still happen.

  • Warkind.6745Warkind.6745 Member ✭✭✭

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    if all u Mount hating Wvwler are such a huge and united group im sure u can just not use them the 1-3 pveler who accidently came into ur game mode will not bother u much.

    What no u all use that mount now because its faster than running ? oh what a surprise

    btw where is ur huge mount lag ?

    He who rants against unreasonable players risks becoming an unreasonable player himself.

    All is vain.

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    @Warkind.6745 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    if all u Mount hating Wvwler are such a huge and united group im sure u can just not use them the 1-3 pveler who accidently came into ur game mode will not bother u much.

    What no u all use that mount now because its faster than running ? oh what a surprise

    btw where is ur huge mount lag ?

    He who rants against unreasonable players risks becoming an unreasonable player himself.

    I just give Credit to who credit deserves

  • Nidome.1365Nidome.1365 Member ✭✭✭

    Today I saw enemies bypass walls using warclaw leaps. I am not going to say which walls as I'm not going to help exploiters.
    The mounts needs to be disabled until the exploit is fixed. The easiest option would be to reduce the leap distance slightly but knowing anet it will probably lead to redesigns of the affected areas.

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    @jakt.9381 said:
    My opinion... this mount is complete garbage.

    No more kiting.
    No more picking the tail of zergs.
    All fights are now consensual.
    No more havoc stopping reinforcements.

    This has basically ruled out an entire playstyle from WvW. Its zerg or die at this point. The evade, cc immunity, and high hp in combination is too much. I get the need for some classes to have extra mobility but this is much more than just a faster method of travel. This is a complete get out of jail free card.

    High hp? You mean 2 autoattack from ranger?

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    I can't even say I'm angry like some of the people in here, just beyond sad.
    Wvw has gone through so many changes that have removed it's original concept and balance of battle.
    Res double down only if out of combat.
    Glider which allows you to take advantage of vertical drops, instead of actually making people pay for making bad drops off walls or cliffs into combat.
    Specs that have driven the meta to be mostly about pumping boons and conditions.
    Conditions unlocked and it's damage driven to the point of one shot, and having to be toned down multiple times.
    More direct damage pushed to greater than players health, and needing more boons, shields, and auto traits to compensate.
    Now we get the mount that allows fast travel on maps, avoiding mid travel fight hassles, faster to return to a fight area, faster to run out of a fight, faster to responding to defend an area, one shot down state on multiple targets, mobile siege that just needs 1 supply per hit.
    They've destroyed the last piece of the balance with mobility.

    Then people come in here and make fun of wvw'ers, you all need to change with the times man! they're great I can avoid everyone! I can one shot downs! producing more dumb excuses to defend it than gliders, an hour later they're probably sitting afk on their warclaw in lion's arch fishing for compliments with the cat and their outfit. Meanwhile it's the second day 8pm est and there's only a 15 man queue to ebg, business back to usual, yeah great job getting people to wvw, first skin should be out next week, enjoy.

    Mobility was balanced OMEGALUL.

    wheres my necro mobility?

    Basically what happened is that gankers need 2more brain cells to kill players by baiting their mount dodges and autoattacking them. But i guess thats too much to ask of them. Also i agree with your other points but this one gave me a good chuckle.

  • Warlord.9074Warlord.9074 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2019

    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2019

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

    But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

    Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

    Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

    I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

  • no problem

    i dont have PoF

  • Mechanix.9315Mechanix.9315 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2019

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

    But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

    Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

    Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

    I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

    You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.
    I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.
    So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

    The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".
    People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KhainPride.3987 said:

    no problem

    i dont have PoF

    Good luck.

  • L A T I O N.8923L A T I O N.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    @HazyDaisy.4107 said:
    They asked for new blood...

    They asked for a way to finish downs faster...

    They complained about mesmer and thief dominating roaming/ganking/whatever trendy term is used to describe that these days....

    They said wvw was lacking fights in every tier and there were never any ques...

    They got mounts and complain about:

    Pvers...

    Downs being finished faster

    Mobility classes being at a disadvantage in roaming

    Lag and ques...

    The wvw community is devided on this

    If you want to see Unity in opinion? I suggesti another place then a forum to look for IT...

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

    But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

    Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

    Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

    I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

    You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.
    I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.
    So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

    The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".
    People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

    The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

    Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

    I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

  • Mechanix.9315Mechanix.9315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

    But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

    Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

    Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

    I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

    You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.
    I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.
    So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

    The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".
    People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

    The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

    Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

    I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

    The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

    Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)
    never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

    But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

    Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

    Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

    I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

    You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.
    I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.
    So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

    The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".
    People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

    The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

    Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

    I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

    The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

    Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)
    never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

    But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

  • Mechanix.9315Mechanix.9315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

    But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

    Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

    Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

    I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

    You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.
    I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.
    So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

    The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".
    People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

    The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

    Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

    I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

    The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

    Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)
    never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

    But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

    Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

    I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.
    But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.
    We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

  • Redponey.8352Redponey.8352 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2019

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    I don't think the mount was a good idea for WvW, but I don't think it's all that harmful either.

    My singular concern is the impact it has vis a vis by creating a gap between players who have the mount, and those who don't. If you didn't have HoT or even points put into gliding, it wasn't a big deal for most of the maps aside from desert BL. Gliding is convenient, but you could find yourself playing for an hour without using it. I don't think the same will be said for the mount, given it's a speed increase over what you can attain with swiftness.

    Anyone without a mount will be at a disadvantage against those who do, or even playing with/beside friendly players who do, which shortly will be everyone, so this will be a big hurdle for new players.

    this add is market strategy for gemstore skin and "force" people to buy PoF to be able to play decently in WvW. WvW? they dont care about it, otherwise they would have been fix major issue long time ago and could had real content in WvW.

    That why WvW actually remain only on PoF Class (FB Scourge, Mirage etc) and Mount.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2019

    @Redponey.8352 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    I don't think the mount was a good idea for WvW, but I don't think it's all that harmful either.

    My singular concern is the impact it has vis a vis by creating a gap between players who have the mount, and those who don't. If you didn't have HoT or even points put into gliding, it wasn't a big deal for most of the maps aside from desert BL. Gliding is convenient, but you could find yourself playing for an hour without using it. I don't think the same will be said for the mount, given it's a speed increase over what you can attain with swiftness.

    Anyone without a mount will be at a disadvantage against those who do, or even playing with/beside friendly players who do, which shortly will be everyone, so this will be a big hurdle for new players.

    this add is market strategy for gemstore skin and "force" people to buy PoF to be able to play decently in WvW. WvW? they dont care about it, otherwise they would have been fix major issue long time ago and could had real content in WvW.

    That why WvW actually remain only on PoF Class (FB Scourge, Mirage etc) and Mount.

    And in the wake of the firings this is what people have been desperate for more ways to monetize the game... then when its there the entire forum is pikachu face.

    I dont really mind that part. PoF and the mount is now mandatory, end of story. Everything else is a "here is WvW, this is what you could be doing if you buy PoF" trial. Fine by me. Dont care. Most WvWers already have it (because we all know why, yes).

    I dont know if this is what Anet intended, but thats what they get by this implementation.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

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