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Warclaw killed WvW for me


Puki.2465

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I really love WvW but we have seen so many changes noone that plays WvW asked for. First the removal of the giant lake and underwater combat (bloodlust) Then we got shield gens, were again noone asked for. Then we got the infamous gliding in wvw, and now as a cherry on the cake we got the kitten mounts. Remember folks when Anet said we were gonna have a amazing anouncement, and everyone said: Please for the love of lyssa NO MOUNTS!!!!! And we got em anyways, and they're destroying our game mode, and our mechanics we fell in love with.

I just don't enjoy the mount in WvW, i've tryed it yesterday and today, and it just doesn't feel right..

Please bring back old school WvW!!

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@"KingPuki.1075" said:First the removal of the giant lake and underwater combat (bloodlust)Actually, some people explained how they didn't like aquatic combat in WvW, that it favored certain classes, and wasn't very fun.

Then we got shield gens, were again noone asked for.Again, people asked for a way to protect siege & walls. (Maybe not Shield Gens specifically, but those do get that particular job done.)

Then we got the infamous gliding in wvw,Tons of people asked for that, especially for Desert.

and now as a cherry on the cake we got the kitten mounts.And again, lots & lots of people have been asking for WvW mounts since PoF was announced.

Remember folks when Anet said we were gonna have a amazing anouncement, and everyone said: Please for the love of lyssa NO MOUNTS!!!!!Some people said, "please, Balthazar, give us mounts."

And we got em anyways,At the point they made the announcement, it was a done deal. It was going to happen regardless of feedback at that point.

I just don't enjoy the mount in WvW, i've tryed it yesterday and today, and it just doesn't feel right..You spent 2 hours on it and compared it to your 3000 hours of experience? you might want to give some more time before coming to any conclusions, especially since you were set against it before yesterday.

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I don't think ArenaNet, during development, knew that WvW would have had such a cult following. It was the players that made WvW great and many of those players no longer play the game. All we do is hope for changes to bring those players back but many of the changes just drive remaining players away.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

I would suggest the following:

  • Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
  • Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.
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They asked for new blood...

They asked for a way to finish downs faster...

They complained about mesmer and thief dominating roaming/ganking/whatever trendy term is used to describe that these days....

They said wvw was lacking fights in every tier and there were never any ques...

They got mounts and complain about:

Pvers...

Downs being finished faster

Mobility classes being at a disadvantage in roaming

Lag and ques...

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@st elmos fire.2987 said:I think warclaw fits very nicely in wvw. They are not too fast or op in some way. Just a bit more fun stuff to play with. So far for me the only bad thing is that ppl can jump over some walls with them but I guess it will get fixed. But they are so new that cant really tell yet. :P

How are they not to fast? They are way too fast to have a spot in wvw. Yes I have mount before one nags and I agree with the first post all this crap got added for no reason beside shield gens.

Mount should run at swiftness run speed anywhere and no faster but tbh I prefer to see em go.

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@HazyDaisy.4107 said:They asked for new blood...

They asked for a way to finish downs faster...

They complained about mesmer and thief dominating roaming/ganking/whatever trendy term is used to describe that these days....

They said wvw was lacking fights in every tier and there were never any ques...

They got mounts and complain about:

Pvers...

Downs being finished faster

Mobility classes being at a disadvantage in roaming

Lag and ques...

PVErs where 90% of them join only to get a mount aka karma train to finish reward track. Durr hurr.

No personal skill requirement + extremely high reward for finishing downies by a mount - balanced according to you. Might as well remove downie status and instantly die when your HP is gone.

Classes being at disadvantage is either players poor build/class choice or simply poor balancing.

Lag wont be removed cause cashing in for gemstore via mounts is more important.

Just for the sake of argument - a mount is suppose to be a simple transport tool, not a freaking sports car with the capability to kill everyone on a large scale.

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@Arctisavange.7261 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:They asked for new blood...

They asked for a way to finish downs faster...

They complained about mesmer and thief dominating roaming/ganking/whatever trendy term is used to describe that these days....

They said wvw was lacking fights in every tier and there were never any ques...

They got mounts and complain about:

Pvers...

Downs being finished faster

Mobility classes being at a disadvantage in roaming

Lag and ques...

PVErs where 90% of them join only to get a mount aka karma train to finish reward track. Durr hurr.

No personal skill requirement + extremely high reward for finishing downies by a mount - balanced according to you. Might as well remove downie status and instantly die when your HP is gone.

Classes being at disadvantage is either players poor build/class choice or simply poor balancing.

Lag wont be removed cause cashing in for gemstore via mounts is more important.

Just for the sake of argument - a mount is suppose to be a simple transport tool, not a freaking sports car with the capability to kill everyone on a large scale.

You still have to put ability points in the mount. That’s not going to happen overnight.

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:They asked for new blood...

They asked for a way to finish downs faster...

They complained about mesmer and thief dominating roaming/ganking/whatever trendy term is used to describe that these days....

They said wvw was lacking fights in every tier and there were never any ques...

They got mounts and complain about:

Pvers...

Downs being finished faster

Mobility classes being at a disadvantage in roaming

Lag and ques...

PVErs where 90% of them join only to get a mount aka karma train to finish reward track. Durr hurr.

No personal skill requirement + extremely high reward for finishing downies by a mount - balanced according to you. Might as well remove downie status and instantly die when your HP is gone.

Classes being at disadvantage is either players poor build/class choice or simply poor balancing.

Lag wont be removed cause cashing in for gemstore via mounts is more important.

Just for the sake of argument - a mount is suppose to be a simple transport tool, not a freaking sports car with the capability to kill everyone on a large scale.

You still have to put ability points in the mount. That’s not going to happen overnight.

Except a truck load of players have been running around with thousands of ability points for years cause theres simply nothing else to put them on.Even i got somewhat extra 800 spare ability points remaining regardless having every other ability maxed out.

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@Arctisavange.7261 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:They asked for new blood...

They asked for a way to finish downs faster...

They complained about mesmer and thief dominating roaming/ganking/whatever trendy term is used to describe that these days....

They said wvw was lacking fights in every tier and there were never any ques...

They got mounts and complain about:

Pvers...

Downs being finished faster

Mobility classes being at a disadvantage in roaming

Lag and ques...

PVErs where 90% of them join only to get a mount aka karma train to finish reward track. Durr hurr.

No personal skill requirement + extremely high reward for finishing downies by a mount - balanced according to you. Might as well remove downie status and instantly die when your HP is gone.

Classes being at disadvantage is either players poor build/class choice or simply poor balancing.

Lag wont be removed cause cashing in for gemstore via mounts is more important.

Just for the sake of argument - a mount is suppose to be a simple transport tool, not a freaking sports car with the capability to kill everyone on a large scale.

You still have to put ability points in the mount. That’s not going to happen overnight.

Except a truck load of players have been running around with thousands of ability points for years cause theres simply nothing else to put them on.Even i got somewhat extra 800 spare ability points remaining regardless having every other ability maxed out.

Sure for WvW players, but a PVE who never stepped foot into WvW wont have access.

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@Fish.2769 said:

@Drecien.4508 said:They not that fast. Running on a herald with speed skill Active is barely slower. All this hyperbole.

When in an enemy zone sure, not when in a zone you own, people on foot even with swiftness get left in the dust.

No, they are not so fast, they are fast but not too fast. I am Soulbeast, with speed buff on me, and 2 swoop (1 from Eagle and 1 from Greatsword) I can run shoulder to shoulder with Warclaw. I bet the thief with shortbow can run faster than me, and I think also the warrior with Greatsword and Sword and some utilities can run faster too.So, for a mount, Warclaw is not so faster or faster than some classes can be. He is faster than 33% speed, but not faster than some classes with some special abilities.

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I think the way it is now, Warclaw is almost perfect. Now roamers and small groups can make different strategy, different way to play, without being afraid that all the times zerg will catch them :P (I am talking here specially in the name of those classes like necro, who can't run faster like range, thief, warrior etc ).

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The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

Don't forget that once you waste cool downs to get them off the mount, that player will still have their own HP bar and all their skills ready to use.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

@coro.3176 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

I would suggest the following:
  • Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
  • Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.

Something to consider is that mounted players have 11k health with no condi cleanse, which is easy pickings for a condi build. I'm playing a low stealth condi trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD, on my P/D set I have geomancy and doom sigils. So one of my burst combos is steal -> weapon swap -> P/D 3, this applies 6 stacks of poison and confusion, 4 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of bleed, which is enough to reliably dismount the rider in 4-5 ticks. The durations are high enough to still be ticking after they dismount unless they run cleansing sigil, forcing a cleanse straight off, and I've only burnt steal and weapon swap. So yeah, the way to force a dismount is a good condition spike.

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@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Drecien.4508 said:They not that fast. Running on a herald with speed skill Active is barely slower. All this hyperbole.

When in an enemy zone sure, not when in a zone you own, people on foot even with swiftness get left in the dust.

No, they are not so fast, they are fast but not too fast. I am Soulbeast, with speed buff on me, and 2 swoop (1 from Eagle and 1 from Greatsword) I can run shoulder to shoulder with Warclaw. I bet the thief with shortbow can run faster than me, and I think also the warrior with Greatsword and Sword and some utilities can run faster too.So, for a mount, Warclaw is not so faster or faster than some classes can be. He is faster than 33% speed, but not faster than some classes with some special abilities.

I meant it in more of a 'not every class has a ton of mobility' to keep up. I know Rangers can because of the double swoop and Thieves probably can with Shadowsteps, Mesmers with blinks, Engi with Rocket Boots etc, etc... This is more RIP to those poor Necros without PoF.

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While the hour-long queues, the chat whining and the EotM while waiting to get onto a real map did turn me off quite a bit I have to say that the mount itself had the opposite effect for me. The mounted mobility freeing up some builds and the added layer of cavalry skirmishes have definitely revitalised my interest in WvW.

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@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

I would suggest the following:
  • Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
  • Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.

Something to consider is that mounted players have 11k health with no condi cleanse, which is easy pickings for a condi build. I'm playing a low stealth condi trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD, on my P/D set I have geomancy and doom sigils. So one of my burst combos is steal -> weapon swap -> P/D 3, this applies 6 stacks of poison and confusion, 4 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of bleed, which is enough to reliably dismount the rider in 4-5 ticks. The durations are high enough to still be ticking after they dismount unless they run cleansing sigil, forcing a cleanse straight off, and I've only burnt steal and weapon swap. So yeah, the way to force a dismount is a good condition spike.

It's interesting to hear all these people claiming Warclaw ruined their game for roaming ... I guess they didn't consider something like ... adapting. Truly, the best competitive players are those that know how to adapt to the ever changing conditions of their game mode. Some people just aren't up for the challenge.

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I can't even say I'm angry like some of the people in here, just beyond sad.Wvw has gone through so many changes that have removed it's original concept and balance of battle.Res double down only if out of combat.Glider which allows you to take advantage of vertical drops, instead of actually making people pay for making bad drops off walls or cliffs into combat.Specs that have driven the meta to be mostly about pumping boons and conditions.Conditions unlocked and it's damage driven to the point of one shot, and having to be toned down multiple times.More direct damage pushed to greater than players health, and needing more boons, shields, and auto traits to compensate.Now we get the mount that allows fast travel on maps, avoiding mid travel fight hassles, faster to return to a fight area, faster to run out of a fight, faster to responding to defend an area, one shot down state on multiple targets, mobile siege that just needs 1 supply per hit.They've destroyed the last piece of the balance with mobility.

Then people come in here and make fun of wvw'ers, you all need to change with the times man! they're great I can avoid everyone! I can one shot downs! producing more dumb excuses to defend it than gliders, an hour later they're probably sitting afk on their warclaw in lion's arch fishing for compliments with the cat and their outfit. Meanwhile it's the second day 8pm est and there's only a 15 man queue to ebg, business back to usual, yeah great job getting people to wvw, first skin should be out next week, enjoy.

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