Warclaw killed WvW for me - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Warclaw killed WvW for me

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Comments

  • MiniMe.1960MiniMe.1960 Member ✭✭

    @KingPuki.1075 said:
    I really love WvW but we have seen so many changes noone that plays WvW asked for. First the removal of the giant lake and underwater combat (bloodlust) Then we got shield gens, were again noone asked for. Then we got the infamous gliding in wvw, and now as a cherry on the cake we got the kitten mounts. Remember folks when Anet said we were gonna have a amazing anouncement, and everyone said: Please for the love of lyssa NO MOUNTS!!!!! And we got em anyways, and they're destroying our game mode, and our mechanics we fell in love with.

    I just don't enjoy the mount in WvW, i've tryed it yesterday and today, and it just doesn't feel right..

    Please bring back old school WvW!!

    Not gonna happen mate. Gliding stayed so will the mount. But you may join me in the corner. Maybe if we cry "STEREO" we get some attention. :(

  • HazyDaisy.4107HazyDaisy.4107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @HazyDaisy.4107 said:
    They asked for new blood...

    They asked for a way to finish downs faster...

    They complained about mesmer and thief dominating roaming/ganking/whatever trendy term is used to describe that these days....

    They said wvw was lacking fights in every tier and there were never any ques...

    They got mounts and complain about:

    Pvers...

    Downs being finished faster

    Mobility classes being at a disadvantage in roaming

    Lag and ques...

    The wvw community is devided on this

    If you want to see Unity in opinion? I suggesti another place then a forum to look for IT...

    My sarcasm wasn't about unity, it wasn't about balance either which somehow another quoter managed to read into the post.

    [HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination - Sorrows Furnace

  • Mechanix.9315Mechanix.9315 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2019

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

    But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

    Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

    Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

    I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

    You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.
    I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.
    So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

    The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".
    People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

    The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

    Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

    I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

    The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

    Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)
    never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

    But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

    Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

    I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.
    But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.
    We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

    you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.
    if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

    Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

    So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

    Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

    But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

    Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

    Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

    I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

    You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.
    I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.
    So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

    The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".
    People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

    The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

    Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

    I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

    The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

    Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)
    never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

    But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

    Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

    I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.
    But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.
    We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

    you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.
    if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

    Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

    So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

    Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

    i personally dont have issues avoiding ganks, i have mostly been the ganker.
    yes the mount wont solve all issues WvW has to attract a wider audience, there is plenty more issues. so more changes need to happen, glad that you see that.

    So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to be against the mount, is 'mount doesnt solve all the problems in the mode' seems a joke, because that is meaningless to complain about something being only a step in to a more populated future than a full on solution for everything.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2019

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

    But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

    Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

    Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

    I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

    You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.
    I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.
    So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

    The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".
    People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

    The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

    Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

    I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

    The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

    Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)
    never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

    But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

    Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

    I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.
    But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.
    We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

    you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.
    if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

    Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

    So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

    Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

    i personally dont have issues avoiding ganks, i have mostly been the ganker.
    yes the mount wont solve all issues WvW has to attract a wider audience, there is plenty more issues. so more changes need to happen, glad that you see that.

    So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to be against the mount, is 'mount doesnt solve all the problems in the mode' seems a joke, because that is meaningless to complain about something being only a step in to a more populated future than a full on solution for everything.

    Thats not even my strongest argument, you just trying to flip the words that i never said, sry but you arent looking very smart atm, what i think about the mount is already posted in several other threads, even in the one that i created, suggesting specific changes to the mount in order to keep it and make the game mode viable again, for all kinds of players.
    But if you didnt get it then i wont waste more time.

    i am sorry i do not stalk other peoples posts, unless i remember reading them somewhere i wont know what you have posted somewhere else.
    here in what i quoted,. it was only specifically about having a mount or not, not potential changes to keep the mount.
    for example i am rather certain that in the future you will be able to dismount an opponent with your engage skill. in the stream before the mount the devs said that they were thinking to make the chain an alternative engage to dismount both, but didnt go for it for now. the statement in the stream:

    somehow it starts at a differnt time in the forum than if you enter the link. it starts at 36:35.

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @XECOR.2814 said:
    Mobility was balanced OMEGALUL.

    wheres my necro mobility?

    Basically what happened is that gankers need 2more brain cells to kill players by baiting their mount dodges and autoattacking them. But i guess thats too much to ask of them. Also i agree with your other points but this one gave me a good chuckle.

    Mobility in regards to attrition warfare.

    Signet of the Locust
    Spectral Walk
    Locust Swarm
    Death's Charge
    Quickening Thirst
    Trail of Anguish
    Sand Swell

    Oh ok the gankers now need 2 more brain cells, but the idiots that ran in a straight line from point a to point b before, I guess it was too much as ask them to put in a little more effort to be smarter and go around to avoid gankers huh.

    Enjoy your laugh at wvw's expense.

    Yes avoid gankers with far more superior mobility. Mobility on ranger/thief/mesmer is busted in wvw and you know it but since this is forums anyone can write anything and get away with it because people dont have much knowledge of whats the case anyway.

    Btw muh roamer muh big brain1button rapid fire, backstab, coronoburst and aa stealth and disengage. Literally uses 1 combo from stealth or out of range of enemy skills. Stop spreading the narrative that roamers are any greater skilled than any other player. In fact ive only seen people like these use cheap ways to win a fight 5v1'ing a player and running away 1v1 or even 2v1 because they are scared that they might die.

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

    But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

    Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

    Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

    I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

    You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.
    I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.
    So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

    The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".
    People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

    The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

    Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

    I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

    The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

    Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)
    never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

    But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

    Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

    I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.
    But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.
    We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

    you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.
    if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

    Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

    So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

    Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

    Trust me on this an average ganker group who put half effort in killing off people from spawn by singling them out can make most of necros not reach tag. The game is just busted that way. Unless you change you build to core and go trailblazer with core and get ready to duel 1v3 etc and slowly kill enemy over 30mins you are not going alive. Power burst damage in game is just too high and necro has no direct sustain nor from mobility.

  • GaijinGuy.8476GaijinGuy.8476 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nidome.1365 said:
    Today I saw enemies bypass walls using warclaw leaps. I am not going to say which walls as I'm not going to help exploiters.
    The mounts needs to be disabled until the exploit is fixed. The easiest option would be to reduce the leap distance slightly but knowing anet it will probably lead to redesigns of the affected areas.

    Why is this not getting any attention? Seriously, I saw a post about this last night on the WvW forum but it has since disappeared.

  • Mechanix.9315Mechanix.9315 Member ✭✭✭

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

    But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

    Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

    Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

    I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

    You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.
    I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.
    So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

    The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".
    People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

    The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

    Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

    I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

    The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

    Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)
    never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

    But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

    Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

    I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.
    But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.
    We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

    you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.
    if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

    Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

    So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

    Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

    Trust me on this an average ganker group who put half effort in killing off people from spawn by singling them out can make most of necros not reach tag. The game is just busted that way. Unless you change you build to core and go trailblazer with core and get ready to duel 1v3 etc and slowly kill enemy over 30mins you are not going alive. Power burst damage in game is just too high and necro has no direct sustain nor from mobility.

    I do trust you, i know it, i been doing my self too, with my guild, i been in both sides, so i perfectly know what im talking about, you can always find an alternative, just only talking about spawn, you already have 3 exits, thats actually a factor that you should consider, that gank group is buying time, thats the way of how cutting reinforcements works.
    Im not gonna deny about the power creep balance, i know it, but you cant just respawn and walk outside alone if you see 3-5 guys waiting, mindless zerglings just go and feed, can wait for a few more on respawn, or like i said just move around, map awareness.

  • Magnus Godrik.5841Magnus Godrik.5841 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally i like the mount in wvw. Makes it way easier to get back into the fight if you wp. Now it has become more action oriented. I hated the long trek to zerg thats on the other side. Now it not too bad.

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 8, 2019

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

    But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

    Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

    Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

    I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

    You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.
    I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.
    So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

    The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".
    People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

    The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

    Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

    I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

    The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

    Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)
    never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

    But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

    Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

    I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.
    But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.
    We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

    you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.
    if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

    Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

    So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

    Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

    Trust me on this an average ganker group who put half effort in killing off people from spawn by singling them out can make most of necros not reach tag. The game is just busted that way. Unless you change you build to core and go trailblazer with core and get ready to duel 1v3 etc and slowly kill enemy over 30mins you are not going alive. Power burst damage in game is just too high and necro has no direct sustain nor from mobility.

    I do trust you, i know it, i been doing my self too, with my guild, i been in both sides, so i perfectly know what im talking about, you can always find an alternative, just only talking about spawn, you already have 3 exits, thats actually a factor that you should consider, that gank group is buying time, thats the way of how cutting reinforcements works.
    Im not gonna deny about the power creep balance, i know it, but you cant just respawn and walk outside alone if you see 3-5 guys waiting, mindless zerglings just go and feed, can wait for a few more on respawn, or like i said just move around, map awareness.

    If im zerging as a necro i just stay dead and hope our zerg wins and rezzes if tag is really really far away from spawn. I had enough of gankers LUL.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 8, 2019

    Now allows you to catch up with tagged commanders, but leaving other players without mounts behind is perfectly fine? :anguished:

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

    But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

    Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

    Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

    I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

    You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.
    I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.
    So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

    The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".
    People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

    The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

    Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

    I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

    The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

    Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)
    never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

    But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

    Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

    I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.
    But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.
    We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

    you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.
    if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

    Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

    So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

    Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

    Trust me on this an average ganker group who put half effort in killing off people from spawn by singling them out can make most of necros not reach tag. The game is just busted that way. Unless you change you build to core and go trailblazer with core and get ready to duel 1v3 etc and slowly kill enemy over 30mins you are not going alive. Power burst damage in game is just too high and necro has no direct sustain nor from mobility.

    I do trust you, i know it, i been doing my self too, with my guild, i been in both sides, so i perfectly know what im talking about, you can always find an alternative, just only talking about spawn, you already have 3 exits, thats actually a factor that you should consider, that gank group is buying time, thats the way of how cutting reinforcements works.
    Im not gonna deny about the power creep balance, i know it, but you cant just respawn and walk outside alone if you see 3-5 guys waiting, mindless zerglings just go and feed, can wait for a few more on respawn, or like i said just move around, map awareness.

    If im zerging as a necro i just stay dead and hope our zerg wins and rezzes if tag is really really far away from spawn.

    We all knew that

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ~ System in place favors established WvW'ers
    ~ Clearly PvEr biased

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    Now allows you to catch up with tagged commanders, but leaving other players without mounts behind is perfectly fine? :anguished:

    It's fine because it doesn't take that long to get a mount. Right now you have all sorts of imbalances in things with new players, even so much as taking less damage from siege damage, or taking less damage from guards or doing more damage to guards. Getting a mount won't take that long, even for relatively new players.

    Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.

  • @Vayne.8563 said:
    Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.

    I support the sentiment, but in practice...
    WvW already had major attrition problems. I favor addressing that first, before giving some people another reason to opt out.

    That said, it might be that the Warclaw actually brings more people to WvW than it loses. It's far too soon to tell though. Things aren't anywhere near equilibrium yet, so it's impossible to say whether the new status quo will be better or worse than the old one.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.

    I support the sentiment, but in practice...
    WvW already had major attrition problems. I favor addressing that first, before giving some people another reason to opt out.

    That said, it might be that the Warclaw actually brings more people to WvW than it loses. It's far too soon to tell though. Things aren't anywhere near equilibrium yet, so it's impossible to say whether the new status quo will be better or worse than the old one.

    Those bolder points have not been followed, and quite honestly, the reverse has been done.

    As to your point of wait and see, I agree. The mount has shown itself to be a ‘need’ to this point, but it is still too early to draw that as a conclusion. (Strong theory? Yes)

    I am truly hoping they will be faster to fix the issues than before. To date, they have implemented two quick fixes which have been positive. (Quick by our standards. It likely cost them significant dev time)

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.

    I support the sentiment, but in practice...
    WvW already had major attrition problems. I favor addressing that first, before giving some people another reason to opt out.

    That said, it might be that the Warclaw actually brings more people to WvW than it loses. It's far too soon to tell though. Things aren't anywhere near equilibrium yet, so it's impossible to say whether the new status quo will be better or worse than the old one.

    Those bolder points have not been followed, and quite honestly, the reverse has been done.

    I was more responding to the theory that it's okay to require PoF, because "people should just support the game." Again, I admire the sentiment; I just don't think it necessarily was bound to be a good move in practice.

    As to your point of wait and see, I agree. The mount has shown itself to be a ‘need’ to this point, but it is still too early to draw that as a conclusion. (Strong theory? Yes)

    Sure, that's fair.

    I am truly hoping they will be faster to fix the issues than before. To date, they have implemented two quick fixes which have been positive. (Quick by our standards. It likely cost them significant dev time)

    Yes, I was impressed they acted that quickly. Let's see if people are still finding exploitable uses of the new mount and if ANet can keep up with tweaks to keep it from being too overwhelming.

    I'd also like to see how ZvZ and GvG evolves to deal with the feature. I think it's going to be longer than most of us think before we have a stable equilibrium.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Stinja.9612Stinja.9612 Member ✭✭

    All these years later and there's still so many "not in my back yard types!" lol.... WvWers and PvErs will now have more mount skins to buy to support the company to keep developing their game and mode BooHoo. If you're playing an mmo that has expansions at some point you have to also realize you are expected to buy said expansion, its been on sale constantly if you cant afford it you need to re-prioritize things in your life, a game might not be what you should be worrying about at all.

    People who are down die instantly but also keep their precious downstate, they were going to die anyway and soaked up my aoes i wanted to kill standing people with but now lets blame the mount for the death not misplays or bad builds! It just honestly seems like the mindless zergers will never be happy regardless of what they get, why do they even keep playing the game if they hate it so much at this point?

    You want new blood? More pvpers? those people want a meaningful reward they're not going to run around to grind wvw ranks that mean nothing to them and there's better ways to farm karma compared to back in the day. For new blood they have to start somewhere, Alliances are still coming at some point and im sure this was just an update that was ready to go live vs whatever else they were working on.

    You get something, act like its nothing, because its not exactly what you wanted and then complain as if they have no intention to add anything else to the mode. Why would a company respond to that? Its beyond obvious that pvers pay the bills that keep the lights on think about it for more than 2 seconds..

    At the end of the day they should just run in-game community polls like Rune-scape does so you can visibly see metrics as a player without hoping the Devs will give you that information and know exactly what people voted on thus tempering your expectations accordingly.

    Questions as basic as

    Do you feel WvW is rewarding enough Yes/No/Undecided

    Do you feel the WvW xp rates are good enough Yes/No/Undecided

    Do you prefer Large fights (25+) Yes/No/Undecided

    Do you prefer small(5 or less players) pvp encounters Yes/No/Undecided

    Does the Warclaw improve your WvW experience Yes/No/Undecided

    You then know where the majority's stand outside of the many bubbles that exist within game communities. Believe it or not there's people that play all the game modes in the game and don't just tunnel WvW that also have opinions!

    The last point of bring back old wvw, it was vastly worse people used to fly around with hacks and steal the orb with teleports do you recall? The rose tinted goggles are obscuring what actual wvw was like years ago vs what you felt it was like. By that logic elite specs and many stat combos were a mistake and shouldn't exist as well in wvw ect. You don't have to use the mount, but you'll just be left behind and easy pickings for gankers, it is a simple choice really

    I may be harsh but i care deeply about the game.

    https://twitch.tv/phenomatron

  • zionophir.6845zionophir.6845 Member ✭✭✭

    well, adapt or goto obsidian sanctum and whine incessantly about the warclaw on teamchat.

    Guild Wars 2: Your Math Tèacher [MATH]
    Guild Wars 1: Scout of Your Math Teacher [MATH]
    Guild Wars 2: Digital Headhuntaz [aBrA]

  • Colly.4073Colly.4073 Member ✭✭✭

    @zionophir.6845 said:
    well, adapt or goto obsidian sanctum and whine incessantly about the warclaw on teamchat.

    PVE this way -->https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/categories/guild-wars-2-discussion

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 8, 2019

    @GaijinGuy.8476 said:

    @Nidome.1365 said:
    Today I saw enemies bypass walls using warclaw leaps. I am not going to say which walls as I'm not going to help exploiters.
    The mounts needs to be disabled until the exploit is fixed. The easiest option would be to reduce the leap distance slightly but knowing anet it will probably lead to redesigns of the affected areas.

    Why is this not getting any attention? Seriously, I saw a post about this last night on the WvW forum but it has since disappeared.

    One of the devs posted on a Reddit thread that they are working to fix as many of these exploits as possible, as fast as possible.

    EDIT: linkz0r5 => https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/aydzal/new_day_new_abuse/ei0atui/

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.

    I support the sentiment, but in practice...
    WvW already had major attrition problems. I favor addressing that first, before giving some people another reason to opt out.

    That said, it might be that the Warclaw actually brings more people to WvW than it loses. It's far too soon to tell though. Things aren't anywhere near equilibrium yet, so it's impossible to say whether the new status quo will be better or worse than the old one.

    I think most WvW players, anyone serious, would have purchased PoF for the elite specs anyway. I doubt very many people serious about WvW are free to play players in the first place. I don't suspect they're a significant enough portion of the playerbase to make a dent. It's likely new players from this will outweigh free to play players. But it might encourage some of those free to play players to buy the expansion as well.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 9, 2019

    @alain.1659 said:
    The frustrating thing is not the mount itself but the priority of it. There were already bugs and problems in wvw, wishes from player base, issues that needed addressing, balance needs, ideas, suggestions. And what Anet did was to give a mount. OK. There are a lot of ideas on that, personally i hate the current version of it (needs speed reduce, should not be cap points on mount etc) but the real problem is not that either. Anet did not fix the necessary parts, did not bring any proper balance. They did bring a mount with full of bugs and exploits. This is the part where it gets me frustrated. They are constantly nerfing and trying to fix it now. For the love of god not even one staff tried the mount before release? Shouldn't they know about their own game, at least more than a casual wvw player?

    I keep seeing this but what people don't realize is that mounts ARE a solution to many of the things people were asking to get fixed, including people that avoided WvW for those issues. Yup, game changes, some people like and some don't, that's how it works but the overall here is that many issues have been addressed. Maybe not SPECIFICALLY the way people wanted them, but still, they have been. The balance issue ... that's never going away. in fact, as the game adds more choice for players, it can only get worse, at best stay at some 'fringe' level of broken; people should be making decisions based on the history of the game, not what they hope will happen.

    What is really important here is to take away the general trend that Anet listens to players and continually improves the game with novel ideas that make it enjoyable for more people. If you don't like mounts in WvW, simply don't use them .. or adapt to 'deal' with people using them (I've already seen some discussion on how to do so ... they don't make players immune to roamers)

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.

    I support the sentiment, but in practice...
    WvW already had major attrition problems. I favor addressing that first, before giving some people another reason to opt out.

    That said, it might be that the Warclaw actually brings more people to WvW than it loses. It's far too soon to tell though. Things aren't anywhere near equilibrium yet, so it's impossible to say whether the new status quo will be better or worse than the old one.

    I think most WvW players, anyone serious, would have purchased PoF for the elite specs anyway. I doubt very many people serious about WvW are free to play players in the first place. I don't suspect they're a significant enough portion of the playerbase to make a dent. It's likely new players from this will outweigh free to play players. But it might encourage some of those free to play players to buy the expansion as well.

    I don't think it's that many people either. I just don't support the statement "let them support the game if they want to play the game" as a sufficient argument for not making Warclaw available. Again, I admire the sentiment; I just don't think it's a great move by ANet if there goal is achieving a vibrant WvW that attracts more people to play.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 9, 2019

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.

    I support the sentiment, but in practice...
    WvW already had major attrition problems. I favor addressing that first, before giving some people another reason to opt out.

    That said, it might be that the Warclaw actually brings more people to WvW than it loses. It's far too soon to tell though. Things aren't anywhere near equilibrium yet, so it's impossible to say whether the new status quo will be better or worse than the old one.

    I think most WvW players, anyone serious, would have purchased PoF for the elite specs anyway. I doubt very many people serious about WvW are free to play players in the first place. I don't suspect they're a significant enough portion of the playerbase to make a dent. It's likely new players from this will outweigh free to play players. But it might encourage some of those free to play players to buy the expansion as well.

    I don't think it's that many people either. I just don't support the statement "let them support the game if they want to play the game" as a sufficient argument for not making Warclaw available. Again, I admire the sentiment; I just don't think it's a great move by ANet if there goal is achieving a vibrant WvW that attracts more people to play.

    I don't disagree with you but if it comes to that, most of the best specs for WvW, including some of the best stat sets is locked behind expansion content anyway. They'd already at this point be better off buying the expansion in most cases.

    Edited for clarity

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    The frustrating thing is not the mount itself but the priority of it. There were already bugs and problems in wvw, wishes from player base, issues that needed addressing, balance needs, ideas, suggestions. And what Anet did was to give a mount. OK. There are a lot of ideas on that, personally i hate the current version of it (needs speed reduce, should not be cap points on mount etc) but the real problem is not that either. Anet did not fix the necessary parts, did not bring any proper balance. They did bring a mount with full of bugs and exploits. This is the part where it gets me frustrated. They are constantly nerfing and trying to fix it now. For the love of god not even one staff tried the mount before release? Shouldn't they know about their own game, at least more than a casual wvw player?

    I keep seeing this but what people don't realize is that mounts ARE a solution to many of the things people were asking to get fixed, including people that avoided WvW for those issues. Yup, game changes, some people like and some don't, that's how it works but the overall here is that many issues have been addressed. Maybe not SPECIFICALLY the way people wanted them, but still, they have been. The balance issue ... that's never going away. in fact, as the game adds more choice for players, it can only get worse, at best stay at some 'fringe' level of broken; people should be making decisions based on the history of the game, not what they hope will happen.

    What is really important here is to take away the general trend that Anet listens to players and continually improves the game with novel ideas that make it enjoyable for more people. If you don't like mounts in WvW, simply don't use them .. or adapt to 'deal' with people using them (I've already seen some discussion on how to do so ... they don't make players immune to roamers)

    I understand what you are saying, but sorry friend you are wrong. Warclaw is just %1 of what people have been asking. It is a temporary solution and in a couple of months it will be seen. But again, all would be "oh, ok, maybe this is a beginning" if there were not so many bugs. Not a single argumeny in the world can cover anet's first mount release. Some exploits were(and some still are) so fundamental that one wonders if they ever really thought about this well. Still I hope it is a good start for wvw.

    Ps: As for adapting I will try and find a build after the smoke clears. Will swap to a different profession. Maybe we can share ideas about it in a different topic. I love buildcrafting.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 9, 2019

    @alain.1659 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    The frustrating thing is not the mount itself but the priority of it. There were already bugs and problems in wvw, wishes from player base, issues that needed addressing, balance needs, ideas, suggestions. And what Anet did was to give a mount. OK. There are a lot of ideas on that, personally i hate the current version of it (needs speed reduce, should not be cap points on mount etc) but the real problem is not that either. Anet did not fix the necessary parts, did not bring any proper balance. They did bring a mount with full of bugs and exploits. This is the part where it gets me frustrated. They are constantly nerfing and trying to fix it now. For the love of god not even one staff tried the mount before release? Shouldn't they know about their own game, at least more than a casual wvw player?

    I keep seeing this but what people don't realize is that mounts ARE a solution to many of the things people were asking to get fixed, including people that avoided WvW for those issues. Yup, game changes, some people like and some don't, that's how it works but the overall here is that many issues have been addressed. Maybe not SPECIFICALLY the way people wanted them, but still, they have been. The balance issue ... that's never going away. in fact, as the game adds more choice for players, it can only get worse, at best stay at some 'fringe' level of broken; people should be making decisions based on the history of the game, not what they hope will happen.

    What is really important here is to take away the general trend that Anet listens to players and continually improves the game with novel ideas that make it enjoyable for more people. If you don't like mounts in WvW, simply don't use them .. or adapt to 'deal' with people using them (I've already seen some discussion on how to do so ... they don't make players immune to roamers)

    I understand what you are saying, but sorry friend you are wrong. Warclaw is just %1 of what people have been asking. It is a temporary solution and in a couple of months it will be seen. But again, all would be "oh, ok, maybe this is a beginning" if there were not so many bugs. Not a single argumeny in the world can cover anet's first mount release. Some exploits were(and some still are) so fundamental that one wonders if they ever really thought about this well. Still I hope it is a good start for wvw.

    Ps: As for adapting I will try and find a build after the smoke clears. Will swap to a different profession. Maybe we can share ideas about it in a different topic. I love buildcrafting.

    You don't know what percentage of what people have been asking. That's ridiculous. It's also not a temporary solution, as mounts aren't going away.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @alain.1659 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    The frustrating thing is not the mount itself but the priority of it. There were already bugs and problems in wvw, wishes from player base, issues that needed addressing, balance needs, ideas, suggestions. And what Anet did was to give a mount. OK. There are a lot of ideas on that, personally i hate the current version of it (needs speed reduce, should not be cap points on mount etc) but the real problem is not that either. Anet did not fix the necessary parts, did not bring any proper balance. They did bring a mount with full of bugs and exploits. This is the part where it gets me frustrated. They are constantly nerfing and trying to fix it now. For the love of god not even one staff tried the mount before release? Shouldn't they know about their own game, at least more than a casual wvw player?

    I keep seeing this but what people don't realize is that mounts ARE a solution to many of the things people were asking to get fixed, including people that avoided WvW for those issues. Yup, game changes, some people like and some don't, that's how it works but the overall here is that many issues have been addressed. Maybe not SPECIFICALLY the way people wanted them, but still, they have been. The balance issue ... that's never going away. in fact, as the game adds more choice for players, it can only get worse, at best stay at some 'fringe' level of broken; people should be making decisions based on the history of the game, not what they hope will happen.

    What is really important here is to take away the general trend that Anet listens to players and continually improves the game with novel ideas that make it enjoyable for more people. If you don't like mounts in WvW, simply don't use them .. or adapt to 'deal' with people using them (I've already seen some discussion on how to do so ... they don't make players immune to roamers)

    I understand what you are saying, but sorry friend you are wrong. Warclaw is just %1 of what people have been asking. It is a temporary solution and in a couple of months it will be seen. But again, all would be "oh, ok, maybe this is a beginning" if there were not so many bugs. Not a single argumeny in the world can cover anet's first mount release. Some exploits were(and some still are) so fundamental that one wonders if they ever really thought about this well. Still I hope it is a good start for wvw.

    Ps: As for adapting I will try and find a build after the smoke clears. Will swap to a different profession. Maybe we can share ideas about it in a different topic. I love buildcrafting.

    You don't know what percentage of what people have been asking. That's ridiculous. It's also not a temporary solution, as mounts aren't going away.

    Please read my post again. I said mount is the %1 of what people have been asking. Not %1 of the population asked for mounts.
    And again bugs and exploits make us more angry but I never proposed to remove them altogether as I know Anet will commit suicide before accepting the mistakes.

  • Mount exploits aside, I think it needs a little more work. I like the idea of mounts but to witness a mount take out all gate guards with no problem at the blink of an eye, and the speed for which an entire map can be flipped is insane, and the list can go on. Someone mentioned CC should be capable of dismounting; this I believe is a great solution. When a percentage of damage has been inflicted... off the mount you go. Yes I have a mount and it is maxed but tbh, I use it only for detection and a quick speed increase when responding to inc calls as this negates the need to use skills etc to increase movement speed. Just my opinion and it may well turn out incorrect over time when the mount achievement zergs settle.

  • Arioch.6507Arioch.6507 Member ✭✭

    I thought cherry's went on top of sundae's?? Change is painful, even in a video game. Give it a few weeks (month?) and meta's will emerge. Tags will develop new tactics and everything will be right (as it gets) in WvW again. The hope is new players will come and stay and existing players will adapt and continue. As with everything in life, decisions must be made on whether this game mode is "For You" or not. (You of course meaning the reader not just O.P.) I am not a fan of the mount, but I am willing to give it a go and see if/when it becomes game breaking or not. They (Anet) have stated that it will be tweaked as needed when problems arise. We have seen that in practice already with the multiple updates related to Warclaw. (jump distance, target reduction).

  • Arioch.6507Arioch.6507 Member ✭✭

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    How about no? Im sick of this. Every problem that exists was predicted way in advance of them announcing it was a mount. It happens in mainstream triple A titles too. Its alpha man don't judge it yet. Its beta man give them some time it will be fixed by release. It just released man let them fix it first. Its only been a week man give it a month. Its only been a month man give it more time.

    or don't, that's your choice.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @alain.1659 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @alain.1659 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    The frustrating thing is not the mount itself but the priority of it. There were already bugs and problems in wvw, wishes from player base, issues that needed addressing, balance needs, ideas, suggestions. And what Anet did was to give a mount. OK. There are a lot of ideas on that, personally i hate the current version of it (needs speed reduce, should not be cap points on mount etc) but the real problem is not that either. Anet did not fix the necessary parts, did not bring any proper balance. They did bring a mount with full of bugs and exploits. This is the part where it gets me frustrated. They are constantly nerfing and trying to fix it now. For the love of god not even one staff tried the mount before release? Shouldn't they know about their own game, at least more than a casual wvw player?

    I keep seeing this but what people don't realize is that mounts ARE a solution to many of the things people were asking to get fixed, including people that avoided WvW for those issues. Yup, game changes, some people like and some don't, that's how it works but the overall here is that many issues have been addressed. Maybe not SPECIFICALLY the way people wanted them, but still, they have been. The balance issue ... that's never going away. in fact, as the game adds more choice for players, it can only get worse, at best stay at some 'fringe' level of broken; people should be making decisions based on the history of the game, not what they hope will happen.

    What is really important here is to take away the general trend that Anet listens to players and continually improves the game with novel ideas that make it enjoyable for more people. If you don't like mounts in WvW, simply don't use them .. or adapt to 'deal' with people using them (I've already seen some discussion on how to do so ... they don't make players immune to roamers)

    I understand what you are saying, but sorry friend you are wrong. Warclaw is just %1 of what people have been asking. It is a temporary solution and in a couple of months it will be seen. But again, all would be "oh, ok, maybe this is a beginning" if there were not so many bugs. Not a single argumeny in the world can cover anet's first mount release. Some exploits were(and some still are) so fundamental that one wonders if they ever really thought about this well. Still I hope it is a good start for wvw.

    Ps: As for adapting I will try and find a build after the smoke clears. Will swap to a different profession. Maybe we can share ideas about it in a different topic. I love buildcrafting.

    You don't know what percentage of what people have been asking. That's ridiculous. It's also not a temporary solution, as mounts aren't going away.

    Please read my post again. I said mount is the %1 of what people have been asking. Not %1 of the population asked for mounts.
    And again bugs and exploits make us more angry but I never proposed to remove them altogether as I know Anet will commit suicide before accepting the mistakes.

    And you don't know that percent either. It's semantics anyways; Anet fixes problems people highlight, not implement the ideas players have to solve them. Mount does that.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Wafu.9247Wafu.9247 Member ✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    redacted..

  • I am a part-time WvW player. Today was the worst. It is impossible for runners to keep up with a mounted zerg. I spent my first half an hour just running, trying to catch up to the commander on the map before I realized I would never catch up. Runners can't afford the time to pick up supply or harvest from synthesizers, and squads are spread across the width of the map. With Arenanet's boosts, plus a WvW boost and banners, in five hours I managed just 20% of the reward track. Contrast that to a couple days ago, played 2 hours, finished 30% but people didn't have mounts yet.

    New people are going to be runners, and if they can't help capture camps and keeps they're not going to stay.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The Warclaw really tilted the balance in WvW. Gliding have it advantages BUT it didn't give the player abilities that can interfere with combat, damage and such. Eg. The result of having a fully mounted blob squad vs a blob squad without mount is very clear.

  • Redponey.8352Redponey.8352 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    The Warclaw really tilted the balance in WvW. Gliding have it advantages BUT it didn't give the player abilities that can interfere with combat, damage and such. Eg. The result of having a fully mounted blob squad vs a blob squad without mount is very clear.

    and the possibility of the mounted blob to easily cross over a wide area (3
    dodges)

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    as soon as you get into combat, you should move normal speed.

    I would place the restriction on the attacker to slow/chill/immobilize etc ... the mounted target if they want to engage in combat that bad. Let's be honest here ... the point of the warclaw is to give an edge to travelling players who DON'T want to be picked off roaming. I don't think they should be immune to roamers and maybe warclaw is tuned too much to avoid roaming encounters BUT ...

    Roamers should have to think about how they are going to engage and address players on warclaws, not just ask for Anet to screw mounted players from one of the advantages of the mount.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    as soon as you get into combat, you should move normal speed.

    I would place the restriction on the attacker to slow/chill/immobilize etc ... the mounted target if they want to engage in combat that bad. Let's be honest here ... the point of the warclaw is to give an edge to travelling players who DON'T want to be picked off roaming. I don't think they should be immune to roamers and maybe warclaw is tuned too much to avoid roaming encounters BUT ...

    Roamers should have to think about how they are going to engage and address players on warclaws, not just ask for Anet to screw mounted players from one of the advantages of the mount.

    There wuold still be advantages to the mount in the way that engaging bursts which are usually resource costly will not affect you anymore, and travel speed while out of combat is better overall. I mean yea why not, make it remain fast if engaged, but why not tie that to active play, prediction, awareness and basic combat skill? If you are prone to enemy engagement, just use your mount dodge at the right time to keep out of combat and your distance away from pursuers. Just saying.

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