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Why all the hostility?


Zexanima.7851

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I understand the frustration, it's a competitive mode played by competitive people who want to win. When it comes down to it though, it's just a game, a way to burn time and have fun. If it's making you mad enough that you're being unkind to other people maybe you need to find something else to play or take a break and watch the joy of painting for a while. Not everyone is good at pvp, some people are slow learners, this doesn't mean they don't deserve to play it.

Some people are just there for the mount, they paid for the game and deserve to acquire it just like you. I see the problem of them "taking up spots" as a problem that anet needs to solve and I put the blame there, not on the people who just want to play the game the way they want to play it. All the people throwing a fit over current WvW just need to git gud at life. I just hate to see people in a game I enjoy and generally find to have a good community acting the way they are. You're not the sole owner of the game, people are not NPC's.

Learn some social skills, you'll be better for it. That's all, just figured I would add my input for what its worth.

EDIT:I would also like to clarify, addressing other's posts, that I think the GW2 community as a whole is pretty awesome. Just that lately, because of changes, the WvW community has been more toxic. The frustration is expected, I think people just need to reflect and redirect their qualms to Anet and not the other players who are just trying to enjoy the game. I personally have not been the target of the toxicity but there has been a noticeable increase that I've seen.

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There is no excuse for rudeness or open hostility, but at the same time, what do you think the reaction would be from the Fractal or Raiding community if players could just enter their game mode, play however they want, negatively impact the overall play experience, and there was nothing they could do about it?

Do you think Raiders would be happy to have 'new blood' coming into their raid, running core ranger with soldier gear, and having zero knowledge of the fight mechanic and no willingness to follow directions?

And while I agree with you that ANET is partly responsible for this, fault also lies with some of the players. I've seen many a new / PvE player come in and ask questions, advice, etc, while just as many (if not more) are coming in without a care about how they will impact the game mode for everyone else, and when people get salty about it, they come here and post about how toxic WvW players are.

If I jumped into a Raid having no experience, I would keep my mouth shut, listen to direction, and follow those directions.

Consideration goes both ways....

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I play a little of the new episodes when they come out but WvW is the only mode that can let me do a lot in a shorter amount of time if I know what I'm doing. I have to move my reward tracks and manage my inventory to save up for stuff and I like to work on my build and team play over time. I can't just go to other modes as a noob for a week or more when WvW queues kill 2/3 of my play time. What other mode can that player base be suddenly inundated and literally locked out of their mode during the time of day they can log on for players who care nothing for that mode and if that did happen, what do you think the player base reaction would be and be honest, how do you think Anet would respond and how quickly?

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It goes for any game mode in this game, it's just that people don't really see the misbehaviour of people in their own clique as easily.

There are nice and toxic players irrespective of what they enjoy to play. If anything, these past few weeks should have taught you that. Overall WvW players has had a fairly poor reputation, and not necessarily warranted, while PvE players in GW2 has been given a fairly good reputation through community effort and developer interaction. What we've seen here lately though is more like two peas in a pod tbh.

It's just that the PvE players are more protective of the developers and the WvW players are more dismissive, for obvious reasons.

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@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:There is no excuse for rudeness or open hostility, but at the same time, what do you think the reaction would be from the Fractal or Raiding community if players could just enter their game mode, play however they want, negatively impact the overall play experience, and there was nothing they could do about it?

Do you think Raiders would be happy to have 'new blood' coming into their raid, running core ranger with soldier gear, and having zero knowledge of the fight mechanic and no willingness to follow directions?

And while I agree with you that ANET is partly responsible for this, fault also lies with some of the players. I've seen many a new / PvE player come in and ask questions, advice, etc, while just as many (if not more) are coming in without a care about how they will impact the game mode for everyone else, and when people get salty about it, they come here and post about how toxic WvW players are.

If I jumped into a Raid having no experience, I would keep my mouth shut, listen to direction, and follow those directions.

Consideration goes both ways....

People doing what you might consider to be inconsiderate is not an excuse to be toxic, just ignore them and move on then. If this is an issue in raids (I don't know, don't play them) then the same applies there. People don't have to shut up and listen to anyone or follow directions. If they are playing bad and don't want to get better, let them and do your best.

Let's say you're a serious lazer tag player and go to the local lazer tag place. If you get thrown in a game of lazer tag with a bunch of random people who don't take it seriously do you just tell them to "gtfo and learn how to play first"? I would hope not, and the same applies to this game.

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@Zexanima.7851 said:

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:There is no excuse for rudeness or open hostility, but at the same time, what do you think the reaction would be from the Fractal or Raiding community if players could just enter their game mode, play however they want, negatively impact the overall play experience, and there was nothing they could do about it?

Do you think Raiders would be happy to have 'new blood' coming into their raid, running core ranger with soldier gear, and having zero knowledge of the fight mechanic and no willingness to follow directions?

And while I agree with you that ANET is partly responsible for this, fault also lies with some of the players. I've seen many a new / PvE player come in and ask questions, advice, etc, while just as many (if not more) are coming in without a care about how they will impact the game mode for everyone else, and when people get salty about it, they come here and post about how toxic WvW players are.

If I jumped into a Raid having no experience, I would keep my mouth shut, listen to direction, and follow those directions.

Consideration goes both ways....

People doing what you might consider to be inconsiderate is not an excuse to be toxic, just ignore them and move on then. If this is an issue in raids (I don't know, don't play them) then the same applies there. People don't have to shut up and listen to anyone or follow directions. If they are playing bad and don't want to get better, let them and do your best.

Let's say you're a serious lazer tag player and go to the local lazer tag place. If you get thrown in a game of lazer tag with a bunch of random people who don't take it seriously do you just tell them to "gtfo and learn how to play first"? I would hope not, and the same applies to this game.

As I said in my post, I'm not defending toxic behavior, but you seem to think that the way these players choose to act has no impact on the game mode. You're wrong.

There are WvW players WHO CANNOT PLAY, as in, they cannot even get into a map to play their desired game mode, because the maps are full of players, many of whom don't care about WvW, don't want to learn the game mode, they just want to get their mount and leave.

Go ahead and defend that.

Now having a full map is not a bad thing at all, in fact, many players love to see a map full of players to fight with or against. But now you have a sizeable portion of those players who aren't interested in what WvW is or how to play it, so those in the map can't even enjoy the game mode that they love.

Obviously you're not a WvW player, but we all appreciate your virtue signaling, and coming here and telling us all how we should feel about something that doesn't impact you. :trollface:

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In my opinion, the argument that newbie players are detrimental to veterans because they dont know how to play is rather slim at best.

True experts use clueless players as bait or meatshields. They dont complain because they cannot control them, they simply account for the fact they Wont control them, and simply assume they'll draw attention of opponents regardless, which gives experienced players opportunities to strike elsewhere.

That said, taking the time to mentor new blood is a much more interesting outcome. My point is that there really is no downside to it, provided you're clever about the situation.

Fair enough, the queues are an issue, but it'll normalize in a few days. If anything, it's a signal that the limit should be increased, and performance should be improved. If it takes that little to make the server kneel, then the wishes of the WvW communities for more players, and eventually a thriving, experienced playerbase is dead in the water. Use it to push for infrastructure improvement.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:There is no excuse for rudeness or open hostility, but at the same time, what do you think the reaction would be from the Fractal or Raiding community if players could just enter their game mode, play however they want, negatively impact the overall play experience, and there was nothing they could do about it?

Do you think Raiders would be happy to have 'new blood' coming into their raid, running core ranger with soldier gear, and having zero knowledge of the fight mechanic and no willingness to follow directions?

And while I agree with you that ANET is partly responsible for this, fault also lies with some of the players. I've seen many a new / PvE player come in and ask questions, advice, etc, while just as many (if not more) are coming in without a care about how they will impact the game mode for everyone else, and when people get salty about it, they come here and post about how toxic WvW players are.

If I jumped into a Raid having no experience, I would keep my mouth shut, listen to direction, and follow those directions.

Consideration goes both ways....

People doing what you might consider to be inconsiderate is not an excuse to be toxic, just ignore them and move on then. If this is an issue in raids (I don't know, don't play them) then the same applies there. People don't have to shut up and listen to anyone or follow directions. If they are playing bad and don't want to get better, let them and do your best.

Let's say you're a serious lazer tag player and go to the local lazer tag place. If you get thrown in a game of lazer tag with a bunch of random people who don't take it seriously do you just tell them to "gtfo and learn how to play first"? I would hope not, and the same applies to this game.

As I said in my post, I'm not defending toxic behavior, but you seem to think that the way these players choose to act has no impact on the game mode. You're wrong.

I never said it didn't, I was suggesting not to be toxic just because it does.

There are WvW players WHO CANNOT PLAY, as in, they cannot even get into a map to play their desired game mode, because the maps are full of players, many of whom don't care about WvW, don't want to learn the game mode, they just want their mount and leave.

That sounds like something that Anet needs to fix, not the players.

Go ahead and defend that.

Okay.

Now having a full map is not a bad thing at all, in fact, many players love to see a map full of players to fight with or against. But now you have a sizeable portion of those players aren't interested in what WvW is, so those in the map can't even enjoy the game mode that they love.

Obviously you're not a WvW player, but we all appreciate your virtue signaling, and coming here and telling us all how we should feel about something that doesn't impact you. :trollface:

I do play WvW and sPvP and I enjoy them both.

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@Naxos.2503 said:In my opinion, the argument that newbie players are detrimental to veterans because they dont know how to play is rather slim at best.

True experts use clueless players as bait or meatshields. They dont complain because they cannot control them, they Simply account for the fact they Wont control them, and simply assume they'll draw attention of opponents regardless, which gives experienced players opportunities to strike elsewhere.

That said, taking the time to mentor new blood is a much more interesting outcome. My point is that there really is no downside to it, provided you're clever about the situation.

Fair enough, the queues are an issue, but I'll normalize in a few days. If anything, it's a signal that the limit should be increased, and performance should be improved. If it takes that little to make the server kneel, then the wishes of the WvW communities for more players, and eventually a thriving, experienced playerbase is dead in the water. Use it to push for infrastructure improvement.

This is exactly how people should be thinking about things. I don't understand the queue argument myself, like you said it's a performance issue and not the players. Anet needs to increase their limit and beef up their servers.

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@Naxos.2503 said:In my opinion, the argument that newbie players are detrimental to veterans because they dont know how to play is rather slim at best.

True experts use clueless players as bait or meatshields. They dont complain because they cannot control them, they simply account for the fact they Wont control them, and simply assume they'll draw attention of opponents regardless, which gives experienced players opportunities to strike elsewhere.

That said, taking the time to mentor new blood is a much more interesting outcome. My point is that there really is no downside to it, provided you're clever about the situation.

Fair enough, the queues are an issue, but it'll normalize in a few days. If anything, it's a signal that the limit should be increased, and performance should be improved. If it takes that little to make the server kneel, then the wishes of the WvW communities for more players, and eventually a thriving, experienced playerbase is dead in the water. Use it to push for infrastructure improvement.

Anet should allow us to see the rank of allied players. New blood is good, but it's also good to know beforehand who's more likely to die fast and easy.

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Anet can't fix queues wvw servers can't even handle a fight between 3 servers at a spot so increasing the map limit will only do bad

Anet should just never have added stupid mount into wvw. People who wanna pvp or wvw will find their way rather quick to this game mode. When I started gw2 I lvled in wvw map I thought wvw map at start was open world ffa map. Which give me the joy of getting ganked while I was trying to lvl on mobs :smile: quickly I realised it wasn't like this and I had to cap stuff and I never really left wvw.

But last few updates haven't done anything good to wvw.Hot was badGliding is badPof is bad

And now on top of cake making me wonder if I should quit the mounts none wanted this none asked for this but yet we get it and we get invaded by people who don't give a rats ass about game type they just hope their mount unlocks asap and never come back. While I log and hope mounts make no impact on wvw but today I saw and realised they make a huge impact and it sucked joy out of me

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@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Naxos.2503 said:In my opinion, the argument that newbie players are detrimental to veterans because they dont know how to play is rather slim at best.

True experts use clueless players as bait or meatshields. They dont complain because they cannot control them, they simply account for the fact they Wont control them, and simply assume they'll draw attention of opponents regardless, which gives experienced players opportunities to strike elsewhere.

That said, taking the time to mentor new blood is a much more interesting outcome. My point is that there really is no downside to it, provided you're clever about the situation.

Fair enough, the queues are an issue, but it'll normalize in a few days. If anything, it's a signal that the limit should be increased, and performance should be improved. If it takes that little to make the server kneel, then the wishes of the WvW communities for more players, and eventually a thriving, experienced playerbase is dead in the water. Use it to push for infrastructure improvement.

Anet should allow us to see the rank of allied players. New blood is good, but it's also good to know beforehand who's more likely to die fast and easy.

Ruthless, and while not necessarily a bad idea at all, it may easily be exploited with players artificially walling off less experienced players who Want to get properly involved into bad roles, or simply refusing to play with them. As unfortunate as it sounds, the raid Community does so, I see no reason why the WvW wouldn't, if they had the tool to do so. We all know how the raid Community is seen and faring.On the flip side, seeing the level of allies is useful when it comes to knowing where the lines are likely to falter. Not a bad idea, but with a pretty large abuse outcome possible.

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The problem is when people like me, solo roamers and wvw only players wanted to play the gamemode they like and have to wait 2 hours queue because the slots are occupied by pve heroes who just want the mount.

Why I have to wait 2 hours to play my gamemode?

Yesterday it was over 100 manQ, today 50-60 manQ and still I had to give up and exit the game because too long wait.Hopefully tomorrow and the next day the majority of those pve heroes who just afk in the spawn area go back to kill their trash mobs and leave space for the people who actually wana play the gamemode.

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@whoknocks.4935 said:The problem is when people like me, solo roamers and wvw only players wanted to play the gamemode they like and have to wait 2 hours queue because the slots are occupied by pve heroes who just want the mount.

Why I have to wait 2 hours to play my gamemode?

Yesterday it was over 100 manQ, today 50-60 manQ and still I had to give up and exit the game because too long wait.Hopefully tomorrow and the next day the majority of those pve heroes who just afk in the spawn area go back to kill their trash mobs and leave space for the people who actually wana play the gamemode.

Again, that kind of wording and blaming is not really helpful in any way. I'm in the same boat, I'm just being patient and seeing the positive points of it. It also reinforce my belief that the game having had queues whenever the reset occurs is a Bad Thing that is not meant to be normal. The fact it was not addressed led us to having the same queue problem now. More maps would have also helped split the queues. But the lag present in any WvW map itself shows that even if you're in, when queues dont matter, the servers are unable to bear the maximum load they're allowed, which in itself is an issue.

Again, the fault doesn't lie in the players who want their armored cats, and the people who are genuinely enjoying their time and discovering the mode, it falls on the infrastructure shortcoming, and if the WvW Community want overall improvement, blaming the potential new blood it so wanted will not help. What we should do is use the outcome to point and ask for improvement to capitalize on the publicity, as well as getting new blood, to get better performance and more map variety.Moaning doesn't help in any way, constructive criticism and ideas, at least carry the discussion toward Something meaningful.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:There is no excuse for rudeness or open hostility, but at the same time, what do you think the reaction would be from the Fractal or Raiding community if players could just enter their game mode, play however they want, negatively impact the overall play experience, and there was nothing they could do about it?

Fractals and Raids are both instanced gameplay for self-selected groups. WvW is basically the PvP equivalent of OW, and it's designed to be accessible to anyone. If someone doesn't like being kicked out of raid groups, they can make their own raid group that's open to all (and fail repeatedly). There's no equivalent option for WvW, you are assigned a match, and you can take it or leave it.

If we were talking about a true GvG mode, or at least a 20v20 stronghold sPvP map or something, maybe it would be a different argument.

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I agree with OP. I wish the lot of you understood some of us who came to get our Warclaw don't actively play WvW but we have been there for Gifts of Battle or armor (or Map Completion.. yes I'm an old player) so we do know a tiny bit about it and what the goal of the game mode is. Treating everyone like an unwashed n00b there to ruin your world score or to be used as a meatshield or to purposely deny you WvW access isn't going to foster further interest or better play. Yeah, there's that handful of bad players no one can help just like there's that handful of toxic WvWers no one can help. We keep getting told not to let them define WvW for us, that should go both ways.

Most people I ran into were interested in trying WvW or at least returning after they got their mount. Me included. A commander said "Don't take supply from here" while a bunch grinding for Warclaw were playing, all but 3 people listened. Most people in my server were willing to listen, most times we got done what we needed to get done. I'm sorry if other servers aren't experiencing this and I wish you could because it's been fun.

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@Naxos.2503 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:The problem is when people like me, solo roamers and wvw only players wanted to play the gamemode they like and have to wait 2 hours queue because the slots are occupied by pve heroes who just want the mount.

Why I have to wait 2 hours to play my gamemode?

Yesterday it was over 100 manQ, today 50-60 manQ and still I had to give up and exit the game because too long wait.Hopefully tomorrow and the next day the majority of those pve heroes who just afk in the spawn area go back to kill their trash mobs and leave space for the people who actually wana play the gamemode.

Again, that kind of wording and blaming is not really helpful in any way. I'm in the same boat, I'm just being patient and seeing the positive points of it. It also reinforce my belief that the game having had queues whenever the reset occurs is a Bad Thing that is not meant to be normal. The fact it was not addressed led us to having the same queue problem now. More maps would have also helped split the queues. But the lag present in any WvW map itself shows that even if you're in, when queues dont matter, the servers are unable to bear the maximum load they're allowed, which in itself is an issue.

Again, the fault doesn't lie in the players who want their armored cats, and the people who are genuinely enjoying their time and discovering the mode, it falls on the infrastructure shortcoming, and if the WvW Community want overall improvement, blaming the potential new blood it so wanted will not help. What we should do is use the outcome to point and ask for improvement to capitalize on the publicity, as well as getting new blood, to get better performance and more map variety.Moaning doesn't help in any way, constructive criticism and ideas, at least carry the discussion toward Something meaningful.

I'm not against new fresh meat who just discover the gamemode and probably will become a long term player of it, I just hate how they did it... a stupid mount to grab pve players who are sitting in the spawn for the 90% of the time and occupy spots and don't make me play the gamemode.

Today i logged in, more than 1 hour queue, alt f4 and didn't play.

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@whoknocks.4935 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:The problem is when people like me, solo roamers and wvw only players wanted to play the gamemode they like and have to wait 2 hours queue because the slots are occupied by pve heroes who just want the mount.

Why I have to wait 2 hours to play my gamemode?

Yesterday it was over 100 manQ, today 50-60 manQ and still I had to give up and exit the game because too long wait.Hopefully tomorrow and the next day the majority of those pve heroes who just afk in the spawn area go back to kill their trash mobs and leave space for the people who actually wana play the gamemode.

Again, that kind of wording and blaming is not really helpful in any way. I'm in the same boat, I'm just being patient and seeing the positive points of it. It also reinforce my belief that the game having had queues whenever the reset occurs is a Bad Thing that is not meant to be normal. The fact it was not addressed led us to having the same queue problem now. More maps would have also helped split the queues. But the lag present in any WvW map itself shows that even if you're in, when queues dont matter, the servers are unable to bear the maximum load they're allowed, which in itself is an issue.

Again, the fault doesn't lie in the players who want their armored cats, and the people who are genuinely enjoying their time and discovering the mode, it falls on the infrastructure shortcoming, and if the WvW Community want overall improvement, blaming the potential new blood it so wanted will not help. What we should do is use the outcome to point and ask for improvement to capitalize on the publicity, as well as getting new blood, to get better performance and more map variety.Moaning doesn't help in any way, constructive criticism and ideas, at least carry the discussion toward Something meaningful.

I'm not against new fresh meat who just discover the gamemode and probably will become a long term player of it, I just hate how they did it... a stupid mount to grab pve players who are sitting in the spawn for the 90% of the time and occupy spots and don't make me play the gamemode.

Today i logged in, more than 1 hour queue, alt f4 and didn't play.

I can understand that, to be fair it was a relatively short sighted idea, that was probably too succesful for what it could realistically handle. It's very flawed. But at this point, we can still capitalize on it, provided Anet is paying properly attention. From what I noticed across all maps, players are picking up on the mechanics very fast, and being mindful of the established customs. The issue then, is not to be found within the new players, if anything, they're shining a pretty big spotlight on existing issues :

-Lack of maps means the WvW is focused heavily on the existing maps, and they have limits, and that could be seen every reset for months. It was not properly adressed by Anet. Adding one more map would redirect excess queues into a new area.-Excruciatingly strong lag in a full map is in itself a big problem that should be a red flag, because it severly impact gameplay, regardless of player skill, or existing queues. The servers need to be beefy enough to handle a full map, like they do in open world. If they dont, it's like if it's expected for the map to Never stay full, which is not a good outlook for it.-They give good incentive for new players to join in, but so far, there is not much incentive to stick around for them, aside from Genuine interest in the game mode. That's something I mentionned when Warclaw was announced, a clever publicity, but requires a follow through to have a meaningful incidence.

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It's like people don't understand that new people necessarily means a disruption of the status quo. Sure, people could do their research before going into something new, maybe try to be informed or something, but just because I do things that way doesn't mean the average player from other modes will do the same. If anything, it's an opportunity to be a mentor to a new generation of people who want to learn something. The better the reception to those first moments of interaction with the WvW community, the more likely people will stay.

I get it, it can be really rough when you see someone put up a treb to take down a wall at point blank range... which I saw and sort of laughed at in my head, but we can do better as a community. People were complaining WvW was dead, that there was no activity - and this was at T1 and T2. Of course, now that the queues are temporarily inflated it's only natural that it will be hard for people who play that mode exclusively to get in. But I have been seeing some deep vitriol and contempt for PvE players really just for playing the game mode. Isn't that what people wanted? There's no way to get experience without doing it so... I simply cannot understand the vitriol and it is not healthy for the game mode or even the game at large. We're better than this.

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@FrigginPaco.4178 said:It's like people don't understand that new people necessarily means a disruption of the status quo. Sure, people could do their research before going into something new, maybe try to be informed or something, but just because I do things that way doesn't mean the average player from other modes will do the same. If anything, it's an opportunity to be a mentor to a new generation of people who want to learn something.

If they wanted to learn they'd have spent 5m doing that research to be informed. No one has a problem with the new players who are asking questions and trying to see what the mode has to offer while they are here. The people I am seeing getting troll responses have for the most part asked a question related to the mount or made it clear with their initial comment that they just want to gtfo as quickly as possible.

On both servers I am playing on there have been almost none stop pins trying to get people their mounts as fast as possible and being very patient. Hats off to them, i've pretty much been playing with my fingers tied together so I dont upset anyone :) For every toxic comment in chat there's 10 people following a pin giving up their time and enjoyment to lead new players round. Acting like everyone's being kitten is just wrong and expecting regular wvw players to suddenly discover a vocation in mentoring instead of logging in to have fun is just as toxic.

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@Celsith.2753 said:

@"FrigginPaco.4178" said:It's like people don't understand that new people necessarily means a disruption of the status quo. Sure, people could do their research before going into something new, maybe try to be informed or something, but just because I do things that way doesn't mean the average player from other modes will do the same. If anything, it's an opportunity to be a mentor to a new generation of people who
want
to learn something.

If they wanted to learn they'd have spent 5m doing that research to be informed. No one has a problem with the new players who are asking questions and trying to see what the mode has to offer while they are here. The people I am seeing getting troll responses have for the most part asked a question related to the mount or made it clear with their initial comment that they just want to gtfo as quickly as possible.

On both servers I am playing on there have been almost none stop pins trying to get people their mounts as fast as possible and being very patient. Hats off to them, i've pretty much been playing with my fingers tied together so I dont upset anyone :) For every toxic comment in chat there's 10 people following a pin giving up their time and enjoyment to lead new players round. Acting like everyone's being kitten is just wrong and expecting regular wvw players to suddenly discover a vocation in mentoring instead of logging in to have fun is just as toxic.

I did not say that people absolutely had to drop everything and pick up mentoring. I did straight up say it was an opportunity to do so. I get it. I play the game mode as well. However, while I have not done so for as long as some of my friends who only ever do WvW, I have made some observations about our community that I think are valid. And the thing is I did witness players "having a problem" with people just being there. I know they're very invested in the game mode, but I should have taken some screenshots to show this better... and yes, of course that doesn't go for every WvW player, but man... judging by some of these posts, you wouldn't think so.

I don't think it's fair to expect every last player to have spent time studying up on the game mode because there are many people who, for lack of a better expression, don't read the game manual before playing. They like to discover things as they go and that's no different here than it is when you learn any other skill. For those players who don't do the research before, if they like the mode they'll look at it between their next session. It's what happens at the D&D table I sometimes do for new players. They come in not understanding what's going on, but when they've had a few good sessions, the bug takes them and they do their own research later. Not everyone plays, learns, or reacts the same way to the experience they're going through. That's all I'm trying to communicate here.

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@"Naxos.2503" said:-They give good incentive for new players to join in, but so far, there is not much incentive to stick around for them, aside from Genuine interest in the game mode. That's something I mentionned when Warclaw was announced, a clever publicity, but requires a follow through to have a meaningful incidence.

I was talking about this on my guild today. The way I see it, if PvE players want the mount, they have to actively participate in WvW at least until they can complete the reward track. If we are talking about new, inexperienced WvWers, that's going to take a minimum of 10~16 hours (and afking at spawn will take considerably longer).

I would say that dabbling in the game mode for such an extensive time is sufficient to make these players make up their mind on whether they will like WvW.

In other words, those people who came for the mount and then left were never going to become WvW players anyway, and this is an opportunity to hook in everyone else into liking the mode.

The WvW regulars could see this period as an "extensive WvW advertising and recruiting" opportunity, instead of just being bothered by the temporary long queues.

It's just the second day and queues are already half of what they were yesterday. My guess is that in a day or more some of the queues will be gone and WvWers will be able to play.

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@Naxos.2503 said:In my opinion, the argument that newbie players are detrimental to veterans because they dont know how to play is rather slim at best.

True experts use clueless players as bait or meatshields. They dont complain because they cannot control them, they simply account for the fact they Wont control them, and simply assume they'll draw attention of opponents regardless, which gives experienced players opportunities to strike elsewhere.

That said, taking the time to mentor new blood is a much more interesting outcome. My point is that there really is no downside to it, provided you're clever about the situation.

Fair enough, the queues are an issue, but it'll normalize in a few days. If anything, it's a signal that the limit should be increased, and performance should be improved. If it takes that little to make the server kneel, then the wishes of the WvW communities for more players, and eventually a thriving, experienced playerbase is dead in the water. Use it to push for infrastructure improvement.

Unfortunately, it is probably the minority of players that are even able to think like that.

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@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Naxos.2503 said:In my opinion, the argument that newbie players are detrimental to veterans because they dont know how to play is rather slim at best.

True experts use clueless players as bait or meatshields. They dont complain because they cannot control them, they Simply account for the fact they Wont control them, and simply assume they'll draw attention of opponents regardless, which gives experienced players opportunities to strike elsewhere.

That said, taking the time to mentor new blood is a much more interesting outcome. My point is that there really is no downside to it, provided you're clever about the situation.

Fair enough, the queues are an issue, but I'll normalize in a few days. If anything, it's a signal that the limit should be increased, and performance should be improved. If it takes that little to make the server kneel, then the wishes of the WvW communities for more players, and eventually a thriving, experienced playerbase is dead in the water. Use it to push for infrastructure improvement.

This is exactly how people should be thinking about things. I don't understand the queue argument myself, like you said it's a performance issue and not the players. Anet needs to increase their limit and beef up their servers.

I agree 100% that anet needs to address WvW capacity issues, however, Anet has been told about this issue since day one and instead of addressing it they put band aids on it instead in the way of EotM and now the VIP lobby. That being said, I definitely feel that trying to help the new players learn the ropes and strats for WvW is a far better investment of my time while in WvW than getting angry because they threw an arrow cart down in the middle of a zerg fight or a golem at a keep wall. I'd rather try to give them a good experience that makes a portion come back for more than all of them leave in disgust. Its the reason I don't raid in this game and only do fractals with my close friends. Toxicity just serves to hurt a game types population.

Now if only we can get Anet to focus on the other aspects of WvW that will make it feel more rewarding and not simply reward idling at spawn.

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