PVE Scrapper build — Guild Wars 2 Forums

PVE Scrapper build

Hello guys, with the new balance update i've read scrapper recived a good revamp and now seems good so i just ask you for a good build for open world, better if power based.
Thanks a lot!

<1

Comments

  • stone cold.8609stone cold.8609 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 9, 2019

    I'm still optimizing, but have had really good luck so far by taking the meta power rifle holo build, swapping in scrapper line, hammer, plus 3 or so gyros:

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFACncoCtpitoC0ehlRk67UWlWh+LzyuEsWylAA-jhRBAB4pDAgLAAlq/Y8DAwMlgXt/o8DA-e

    The third utility can be bulwark gyro, rifle turret, battering ram, or whatever you need at the moment. Feels and plays very sturdy for a full glass DPS build. It does have a better burst than I would have expected (no where as good as holo, however), but does rely on keeping targets in your fields for this. The new gyros actually work now and don't die instantly or get lost due to awful AI pathing. And best of all, I can use my Juggernaut in the build!

  • titibalbon.7495titibalbon.7495 Member ✭✭
    edited March 19, 2019
  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2019

    Finally had enough money and time to rebuild my hammer scrapper. Thanks to ANet's recent patch, gyros are now wells = Superior Rune of the Chronomancer. For those of you who do not know it, this thing grants quickness upon using wells.

    Gear:
    weapon + armor = Marauder
    trinkets + backpiece = Diviner

    The bloodruby-trinkets (Bloodstone Fen) can be reset with the capacitor and select the Diviner stats. All LS3 trinkets can select Diviner stats, which is imho a lot easier/cheaper than crafting diviner inscriptions/insignias. At least for veteran players.

    [basic version]

    As long as you run with two gyros, you can maintain quickness 100 %. If you are using Bulwark by any chance, try to run with Mass Momentum (trait) as it boosts your might-generation a lot. Just use the toolbelt-dome and watch the stacks jumping. For PvE the Blast-Gyro can be a little annoying, thanks to its knockback.

    You do not need any additional might/quickness sources. Using sigils or food for that is just an overkill and a waste of resources. Pick what you like and what works for you.

    Note: I am aware that defying the Superior Rune of the Scholar as the only viable PvE power rune and ignoring another few meta-rules, results in a horrible dps benchmark. The build is not designed to show off on ArcDPS against Thieves or Elementalists. It was created to do open world PvE, Story Content, meta-events, a little WvWvW and the easier fractals. For top-endgame content, pick one of the meta builds. This one may work there too, but you may get approached by others for "not doing your part correctly" aka too low dps.

  • For PVE, I mostly use the holosmith build, except instead of holosmith it is scrapper.

    Gear: Full Berserker
    Runes: x6 Scholar
    Sigils: Force, Air/Impacting
    Weapon: Hammer

    Traits
    Explosives: Glass Cannon, Big Boomer, Orbital Command
    Firearms: High Caliber, No Scope, Modified Ammunition
    Scrapper: Perfectly Weighted, Mass Momentum, Applied Force*
    Note: Use Kinetic Stabilizers instead of Applied Force if you have a teammate that gives you quickness.

    Utilities: Healing Turret, Grenade Kit, Elixir U, Shredder Gyro, Supply Crate
    Note: Change utilities as they are needed. If you have a teammate that gives you quickness, replace Elixir U with something else.

    It does a lot of damage fairly fast. Biggest strengths of this build is all of the self-buffing that it gives, as well as the spooky-rez-at-a-distance function gyro. The weaknesses are that if you have teammates who buff you up, then it is basically just a worse holosmith.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    Finally had enough money and time to rebuild my hammer scrapper. Thanks to ANet's recent patch, gyros are now wells = Superior Rune of the Chronomancer. For those of you who do not know it, this thing grants quickness upon using wells.

    Gear:
    weapon + armor = Marauder
    trinkets + backpiece = Diviner

    The bloodruby-trinkets (Bloodstone Fen) can be reset with the capacitor and select the Diviner stats. All LS3 trinkets can select Diviner stats, which is imho a lot easier/cheaper than crafting diviner inscriptions/insignias. At least for veteran players.

    [basic version]

    As long as you run with two gyros, you can maintain quickness 100 %. If you are using Bulwark by any chance, try to run with Mass Momentum (trait) as it boosts your might-generation a lot. Just use the toolbelt-dome and watch the stacks jumping. For PvE the Blast-Gyro can be a little annoying, thanks to its knockback.

    You do not need any additional might/quickness sources. Using sigils or food for that is just an overkill and a waste of resources. Pick what you like and what works for you.

    Note: I am aware that defying the Superior Rune of the Scholar as the only viable PvE power rune and ignoring another few meta-rules, results in a horrible dps benchmark. The build is not designed to show off on ArcDPS against Thieves or Elementalists. It was created to do open world PvE, Story Content, meta-events, a little WvWvW and the easier fractals. For top-endgame content, pick one of the meta builds. This one may work there too, but you may get approached by others for "not doing your part correctly" aka too low dps.

    What trait set up do you use?

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    Well, I included a link for this reason. The [basic version]. I was using Explosives 2/2/1, Alchemy 1/2/1, Scrapper 2/3/3

    But, over the past weeks, I have made a few adjustments. Since ANet enabled Gyors/Wells for underwater-combat, I decided to improve it a little.

    [modified Scrapper PVE build]

    In order to get as many might stacks as possible (asap) I decided to run the Sanguine Array synergy again. So for the underwater-combat, you actually have two sources of might:

    • Superior Sigil of Strength: 10 s might on critical hit (1 s cooldown)
    • Sanguine Array: 6 1/4 s might for every bleed I cause. Bleed sources: Sharpshooter & Superior Sigil of Earth.

    For underwater-combat I mostly use the grenade-kit, but you can pretty much use whatever you like. You will not get to 25 might stacks with this configuration permanently, but you will maintain the 10+ without any trouble = permanent quickness.

    In addition I noticed, that my dps is actually higher when I trait Firearms with 2/1/3 instead of Explosives 2/2/1. If you run this setup on land, you can maintain your might-stacks easier = more freedom for yourself. You are for example not forced to camp the auto-attack of the hammer as long as normal.

    Why Pinpoint Distribution?

    • Most of the encounters I have are trashmobs, so I need the damage now and not in a few seconds.
    • It helps your party or the people around you instantly, because almost everyone dishes out a few conditions nowadays.

    You are not forced to run Pinpoint Distribution. If you intend to fight NPCs with larger HP pools (solo), Thermal Vision might be a better option. Even No Scope has its uses. It mostly depends on your personal preferences.

  • Warlyx.6732Warlyx.6732 Member ✭✭
    edited May 22, 2019

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    Well, I included a link for this reason. The [basic version]. I was using Explosives 2/2/1, Alchemy 1/2/1, Scrapper 2/3/3

    But, over the past weeks, I have made a few adjustments. Since ANet enabled Gyors/Wells for underwater-combat, I decided to improve it a little.

    [modified Scrapper PVE build]

    In order to get as many might stacks as possible (asap) I decided to run the Sanguine Array synergy again. So for the underwater-combat, you actually have two sources of might:

    • Superior Sigil of Strength: 10 s might on critical hit (1 s cooldown)
    • Sanguine Array: 6 1/4 s might for every bleed I cause. Bleed sources: Sharpshooter & Superior Sigil of Earth.

    For underwater-combat I mostly use the grenade-kit, but you can pretty much use whatever you like. You will not get to 25 might stacks with this configuration permanently, but you will maintain the 10+ without any trouble = permanent quickness.

    In addition I noticed, that my dps is actually higher when I trait Firearms with 2/1/3 instead of Explosives 2/2/1. If you run this setup on land, you can maintain your might-stacks easier = more freedom for yourself. You are for example not forced to camp the auto-attack of the hammer as long as normal.

    Why Pinpoint Distribution?

    • Most of the encounters I have are trashmobs, so I need the damage now and not in a few seconds.
    • It helps your party or the people around you instantly, because almost everyone dishes out a few conditions nowadays.

    You are not forced to run Pinpoint Distribution. If you intend to fight NPCs with larger HP pools (solo), Thermal Vision might be a better option. Even No Scope has its uses. It mostly depends on your personal preferences.

    so let me get this straight once u gain might 26 (1 over stack ) u gain quickness right?
    sigil of strength needed (crit proc +1might) and bleed = might , crits 33% chance for bleed + skills

    ,how fast u gain 25 might? , 820 concentration is the min required? no food needed?

    ....guess if u solo u can go No scope instead of pinpoint

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2019

    Back to square one

    Quickness

    • Scrapper gains quickness via Applied Force once it reaches 10 might stacks. It triggers every 10 seconds, if you manage to maintain 10 or higher.
    • In addition this build gains quickness from Wells/Gyros with the help of Superior Rune of the Chronomancer, by using those skills.
    • And finally with the help of Elixir U, which got its cooldown reduced by HGH.

    Might

    • Scrapper gains might on land mostly with the auto-attack-chain (positive strike and Equalizing Blow) on land.
    • Underwater the main-source is the Superior Sigil of Strength.
    • Mass Momentum causes additional might-generation whenever you are under the effect of Stability (caused by Elixir U and the Defense Field of the Bulwark Gyro).
    • However for underwater combat, the Sigil alone has too little impact to be a reliable source. So we use Sanguine Array, which grants might for every stack of bleed we cause. Bleed is caused by critical attacks via Sharpshooter and the Superior Sigil of Earth. It still does not generate as much might as the Hammer auto-attack-combo, but gets pretty close.
    • At last, you gain two stacks of Might for consuming any of the Elixirs, thanks to HGH.

    Using the Sanguine Array <> Superior Sigil of Earth <> Might synergy on land, results in better might generation and better damage. Runing Fire Arms turns out to be more efficient than Explosives, thanks to the condition-damage (in my case).

    25 Might Stacks and permanent Quickness were my personal goals when I created the build. I wanted to have an independent Scrapper for PvE, which can maintain the vital combat-buffs when doing solo content. When doing group-content, the builds boon generation is a little overpowered, so you have more freedom in combat. In all my builds, I want to leave the freedom for the user. No forced skill rotation or as less forced steps as possible. With the improved might generation, you have more options for playing the Scrapper. You have also more space to make mistakes. It is a stable build, not a dps-efficient build.

    Times (land)

    • 10 Might Stacks after 6 seconds with Hammer auto-attack-combo only, 25 after ~ 12-13 seconds
    • Using Elixirs H and U and going for the auto-attack-combo after, 3 seconds until you reach 10 stacks, ~ 6-7 seconds until you reach 25 stacks

    Times (underwater)

    • 10 Might Stacks after 7-8 seconds with Grenade Kit auto-attack only, 25 after ~ 15 seconds. Cannot maintain full 25, but always 19-22.
    • Using Elixir U and auto-attack 3 seconds until you reach 10 stacks

    All tests done with no food. I run the build like this for a few weeks now. No Scope works, too. Mass Momentum is used to maintain the stacks during phases when you have to go into range or recover. Starting with defense field at the beginning of the combat, lets you cut the initial step (till 10 stack) in half.

  • Pagio.3029Pagio.3029 Member ✭✭
    edited May 23, 2019

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 I have a question about runes:
    You are using [Superior Rune of the Chronomancer]. It's good but i also found really usefull [Superior Rune of Fireworks].
    Which one do you propose? [Superior Rune of Fireworks] gives you 6 stacks of might instantly.

  • Pagio.3029Pagio.3029 Member ✭✭

    I have to say @""HnRkLnXqZ.1870" that i'm impressed from your research which is amazing. I was looking for a great scrapper dps build and i haven't found any.
    Thank god i found your post and made me give it a try. I'm a guy that i like experiments in the game and i'm also searching to improve things that worth trying like your great build.
    Three things that you said took my attention, especially the first one:
    - Most of the encounters I have are trashmobs, so I need the damage now and not in a few seconds.
    Indeed. In open world PVE (which i run most) you need instant DPS not in a few seconds. I want fast killing to continue to the next mob, not to take 10 - 15 secs to kill a mob. I tried your build and it was amazing.
    - You have also more space to make mistakes / We are all humans, mostly adults who play this game in their freetime. Mistakes happen and should be allowed to happen. At least that is what I believe in. / No forced skill rotation or as less forced steps as possible
    I couldn't agree most to you. Some of us are playing this game for fun. We all make mistakes and as far as my gaming experience taught me, if you are not a hardcore gamer, you care less about rotation. You only want to play freely and keep a good score killing mobs. I really like your gaming philosophy.
    - But I focus on survivability and freedom of playstyle, as less restricted as possible
    Many people don't understand that survivability is, by my opinion, the most important thing in this game. Everyone is focusing on DPS. How much dps, top dps etc.
    If i have to make a build and i also need to carry a healer all the time with me then i do nothing. I have to play freely and also survive from the combats.

    The best thing in this game is (and the biggest difference with my previous gaming experience in other MMO) that you don't have a clear healer or tank role. If your gaming style is like mine (Open world PVE, farming, stories, leveling) then you need, somehow, to survive. That's why i chose a long time ago to play MM Reaper.
    It is the first time another Profession and build really impressed me. That's why all day, today i was playing with my new Scrapper.
    Thanks to you i have a great build and a great new profession to try and play.
    You are doing amazing work and i'm really happy that i little helped you.
    I will look forward for your next amazing tips.
    Keep up the good work.

  • I too am thankful for all the work and tips from this thread. I started out playing Mesmer mirage and was spoiled a bit to be able to avoid open world mechanics. Then started a Guardian. Was very difficult learning to use skills to absorb/avoid. With Mesmer the "Dodge roll" doesn't move your character so position became very important with rolling and such.

    My engineer is Holosmith which is very forgiving with someone learning but I love the idea of my big beautiful Norn with a huge kitten hammer. Tried to play her in open world but was struggling with HP/vets and such.
    I'm now 2 pieces away from full ascended on her so I'm excited to play her with this build.
    Right now Ive had the best luck in Marauder's gear but with ascended its easy to change.

    Thank you again.

    Also, what is the current build/skills as you've continued testing?

  • Hi! Thanks for the mention I really enjoyed our convo and thank you for the lovely mail, I just wanted to add a few points and my own personal build and experience onto this.

    I've played Engineer since vanilla and I really enjoy the class as whole, I love the utility and variations you can get with this class - I'm not a huge fan of holosmith as it feels like a poor mans reaper with not many benefits.

    Anyway here is my personal MAXIMUM damage build for scrapper in PVE:

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoCFpitpCmXB0ehl7ii+2j9cHsBjwA47/GwCE-jxRBQBG7CAgHdEmRJIAeAAXR53/2f4vq/AA-e

    So with this build you can maintain a near 100% uptime on quickness, there is a small problem with building might but I'll get to that in a moment, here are some variations.

    Traits:
    Explosives.
    In the first tier, I tried moving off glass cannon but honestly that 5% extra damage is just too good.
    You can change Big boomer in explosives for Aim-assisted rocket if you want more burst and less sustain (Perfect for open world PVE/running around)
    You can change Orbital command for Minesweeper if you want to use your dodge roll as an attack - these mines when used with the correct amount of might can easily do over 12k damage if you move the mob a little bit.

    Firearms.
    For the first 2 tiers I've honestley never really liked using conditions during open world so I always stick with High Caliber and no scope for near 90% crit .
    For tier 3 however, you can have a little bit of movement - If you are doing a big open world boss with a lot of players (Teqatul) you really don't need Juggernaut and will get more use out of Modified Ammunition

    Scrapper.
    Now, here is where things get tricky. There are soooo many things you can do here that can help you.
    For the first tier I'd honestly not bother moving off Perfectly weigthed, It's a great trait and is strong all the time.
    For the second tier, Rapid Regen is great if you need some more survivabillity which goes hand in hand with....

    Third tier, Adaptive armor again is great if you find yourself taking too much damage but the real star here is not Applied force, nope. The real winner is Kinect stabilizers, the reason for this is because you have SO MANY STUNS, Your 5 skill on the hammer is 1 stun, it produces a lightning field which then if you use skill 3 is dazing strike, then you have the toolbelt skill from the shredder gyro which is ANOTHER stun. If you couple this with Rapid regen you have some serious staying power and burst, you can also swap out Elixir U here for Personal battering ram which has a toolbelt skill of 12 second cooldown with a nice damage stun (6-7k on crit)

    Skills:
    Healing skills.
    As the point of this build is quickness from the Chrono runes I'd suggest leaving healing gyro on, but if you need condi cleanse then use the turret.
    Not much room here, I'd only suggest swapping Elixir U out for personal battering ram but that's your choice.
    For the elite skill you can use either Supply drop (Damage boost, heal + stun) Sneak gyro (Quickness and any thief will love you) or Mortar kit. Personally I use mortar kit for the extra toolbelt skill on F5 which is a huge damage increase and gives you the 1500 range attack (Also has a heal skill + a blind for normal pve killing)

    Lastly are runes and sigils.

    After much experimenting I found the only runes worth switching out on armor might be either Pack runes or Strength, but I don't sadly have numbers for this - I'd stick with Chrono for now.

    For sigils? You can swap out the Sigil of Impact for Sigil of Strength (Might on crit) if you are having might gain issues, which if you aren't auto attacking - You will, it's not a huge DPS loss for keeping 25 stacks of might though.

    Sorry if the format of this post was kitten I haven't posted on these forums in about 5 years.

    Here's the sour part: You will never top DPS meter's, you won't ever raid with this, you MIGHT do T4 Fractals with this but that's it

    Scrapper is a hard nut to crack in PVE and I really don't think you will get better damage than what I've posted here, I also tried the toolbelt build for holo with this but it was "Meh" this build brings a lot of utility and stuns though!

    Good luck and remember - Have fun!

  • Warlyx.6732Warlyx.6732 Member ✭✭
    edited May 24, 2019

    doble post ><

  • Warlyx.6732Warlyx.6732 Member ✭✭
    edited May 24, 2019

    thanks for the explanations @HnRkLnXqZ.1870

    i wanted a build for open world content when i want to relax , not being afraid of dying = good , dps is "ok" at best and thats fine.

    just last question , i want to add a ranged dps option to this build for world bosses to avoid being restricted to melee (not always an option) , any advice?

  • @Warlyx.6732 Just use the mortar kit

  • Pagio.3029Pagio.3029 Member ✭✭

    @Flame Of The Titan.3649 said:
    @Warlyx.6732 Just use the mortar kit

    Same....

  • Pagio.3029Pagio.3029 Member ✭✭
    edited May 26, 2019

    I have a question: Why to choose Bulwark Gyro? How does it helps you?
    I see many of you, you are using it.
    As it sais it redirects damage to you.
    i'm confused.

    @Flame Of The Titan.3649 said:

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoCFpitpCmXB0ehl7ii+2j9cHsBjwA47/GwCE-jxRBQBG7CAgHdEmRJIAeAAXR53/2f4vq/AA-e

    So with this build you can maintain a near 100% uptime on quickness, there is a small problem with building might but I'll get to that in a moment, here are some variations.

    How you keep 100% uptime on quickness? I tried your build with Strength Runes and it doesn't even open.

  • I'm sure someone who knows way more than me but I use it because it gives me a barrier to absorb the damage I take from others.> @Pagio.3029 said:

    I have a question: Why to choose Bulwark Gyro? How does it helps you?
    I see many of you, you are using it.
    As it sais it redirects damage to you.
    i'm confused.

    @Flame Of The Titan.3649 said:

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoCFpitpCmXB0ehl7ii+2j9cHsBjwA47/GwCE-jxRBQBG7CAgHdEmRJIAeAAXR53/2f4vq/AA-e

    So with this build you can maintain a near 100% uptime on quickness, there is a small problem with building might but I'll get to that in a moment, here are some variations.

    How you keep 100% uptime on quickness? I tried your build with Strength Runes and it doesn't even open.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    One by one

    @Pagio.3029 said:
    I have a question: Why to choose Bulwark Gyro? How does it helps you?
    I see many of you, you are using it.
    As it sais it redirects damage to you.
    i'm confused.

    The Bulwark Gyro helps with a few things.

    1.) The regular gyro generates barrier over time, starting with 3,328 and adding up a stack of 1,088 per pulse (values taken from the wiki). Duration is 5 seconds, each stack of barrier lasts a total of 5 seconds. Most of the complaints about the Scrapper have been about this Gyro, because of this feature. The biggest problem is, barrier does not work like heal. It is just a very weak block, which can broken through with too much damage.

    Bulwark Barrier Chart (3 cycles, 1 minute)


    There are a lot of misconceptions about the Bulwark Gyro and its barrier around at the moment. Many people just look into the wiki add up the numbers and think we have 7,680 barrier for 5 seconds. Some people also tend to believe that the barrier works exactly like a heal skill, which would mean that we cannot lose the barrier once it was granted. The truth is, as you can see in the graph, that the barrier is a temporary buff or temporary additional HP bar at best.

    Each stack vanishes after exactly 5 seconds. The entire barrier-phase is ~ 9 seconds long. The skill has a cooldown of 20 seconds, so we are half the time without protection.

    If you look closely, you can see two borders I have placed, one at 5,000 and one at 3,000. When you are traveling level 80 zones, the mobs hit pretty hard. Veterans, Elites and Champions have powerful attacks at thier disposal. When the barrier is above 5,000 points, you can consider it a strong block. It does not mean you are invulnerable, but it is more difficult to be killed during that time. Which is 3 seconds in total. That is not much.

    When the barrier is below 3,000 you are resistant to auto-attacks of weaker mobs, but that is it. Any powerful attack or if you are surrounded by more mobs, the damage goes through the barrier very fast.

    In competitive (sPvP and WvW) this is even worse. @ our enemies: Barrier is a block. Fight us like a warrior or a guardian and stop hitting us when we activated the block. As you can see in the graph, the ugly phase is over after 4 seconds. If you want to go double safe, wait 7 seconds and then unload your bursts.

    This feature helps us to sustain an average amount of damage for an extended period of time and extreme damage for a short time. It requires some training and experience to time it well. But when you are diving into a blob or see your opponent (e. g. boss) channel a massive attack, it is time to start it. So you end up with most, if not all, of your HP left after the attack. It is also quite useful when fighting several trash-mobs at once.

    2.) Watchful Eye actually hurts us, yes. It is a buff that is applied to every player within a range of 240, which is still quite narrow. This is helpful if we fight in groups or with allies back-to-back. If the other guy is playing glasscannon or has already low HP, you can "protect" him with this move. If the damage is not too much, the barrier you get from the skill should be enough to maintain the increased damage you receive.

    3.) The toolbelt skill Defense Field creates a portable dome around you, which blocks projectiles.

    4.) In addition, the Defense Field generates 3 Stacks of Stability.

    Stability triggers two effects:

    • via Mass Momentum it generates additional might stacks
    • those might stacks help you maintaining Applied Force, which serves as one of your main quickness-sources

    @Pagio.3029 said:
    @Flame Of The Titan.3649 said:

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoCFpitpCmXB0ehl7ii+2j9cHsBjwA47/GwCE-jxRBQBG7CAgHdEmRJIAeAAXR53/2f4vq/AA-e

    So with this build you can maintain a near 100% uptime on quickness, there is a small problem with building might but I'll get to that in a moment, here are some variations.

    How you keep 100% uptime on quickness? I tried your build with Strength Runes and it doesn't even open.

    The build from the link works not with Strength Runes, it works with Superior Rune of the Chronomancer. The reason is simple, the Chronomancer rune generates Quickness upon using a Gyro. And that is why his build's skills are the Medic Gyro, the Shredder Gyro, the Bulwark Gyro and the Elixir U. The Gyros have pretty low cooldowns so you get some Quickness from using just them. In addition you gain Quickness from Elixir U.

    So when you try it with Strength Runes, you will only have Elixir U and Applied Force as quickness sources, which is too less to maintain almost 100 % uptime of quickness. If you follow the build in the link 1:1, you will not end up with 100%. You will be close to that.


    @Lady Vanithy.6495
    [PVE Scrapper Build V2.5] is my current build, which I am using for regular PvE.

  • @HnRkLnXqZ.1870

    Your reply is what I would of said with 1 addition

    100% quickness uptime is done by using a sigil of strength and using sneak gyro over mortar kit.

    Also, something I didn't add in my long post was you can get a FULL SET of diviners gear from the new Dragonfall map and it is VERY easy to make, costing about 250 mistborn motes for an entire set or just doing the achievements and getting an entire set for free. It's not Ascended though but I don't see why you would want it Ascended for open world pve

  • Yazeed.4971Yazeed.4971 Member ✭✭
    edited May 28, 2019

    I also want to share my version of PVE open world scrapper

    Build :
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoCVXhlYBmXBsehlJjCs6yuQi+vz7AX8ZOgAA-jBSBQBk7CAEYlOA4BAQk9HMjSwroMqv6A+r6PAA-e

    with this build, u can very easily achieve 100% quickness uptime by only pair with elixir U and Applied Force

    90.67% boon duration is perfect amount to reach 100% quickness uptime

    elixir U = (6 x 1.2 x 1.9067)/ 32 = 0.429
    +
    Applied Force = (3 x 1.9067) /10 = 0.572
    =
    1.0001 = 100% uptime

    for opening, just simply press elixir B + U, and u can get 14 stack of might immediately, so Applied Force is on in one second. plus every second grant 1 stack of might with stability, so 25 stack of might and 100% quickness uptime is a promise.

    u can also get perma swiftness which u still very need because u can't mount all the time when combat, fury and retaliation
    even some nice vigor for extra favor

    for DPS

    i use grenade, it got super high DPS tool belt for trash mob clean, also grenade 2+4+5 for more DPS boost, especially when u pair hammer 2 with grenade 2, u just switch to grenade kit every time u use hammer 2 skill, that mean grenade 2 is ready too

    a big note: hammer 3 won't increase ur dps, so save it for leap combo in lighting and water field, so u can provide more cc or heal urself.

    also u got grenade for range attack, so u don't need poor mortal to waste ur useful elite slot
    we have better skill for that!

    sneaky gyro for running around map without notice
    elixir X for open world meta, u can CC the kitten out of any BOSS, tool belt also provide 360 cc bar damage
    supply crate for solo, this one can do like 4 second stun on the beginning 2s from drop + 2s from net turret over charge, tool belt skill med pack drop also a huge live saver, it heal for 7800! save me a lot of time with no doubt.

    for sustain

    protection is the key to alive, it can reduce 33% of damage which is way more than u can heal!!

    u got very high protection uptime(45% cover) just from medic gyro tool belt which also provide to u r ally, this is one of the reason i choice medic gyro over healing turret

    another source of protection is from Protection Injection, pair this trait with stability, u got no cc effect and free protection every time! almost every BOSS's big attack come with cc effect, this trait got u protection before u take damage, which ease a lot of damage when u accidentally mess up

    stability is the key to stand ur ground! u won't be hit down like 3 second and wait for death come to u

    Elixir U give u almost 14s stability, when Elixir U CD count down to 19s, u use Elixer B tool belt to extend it for another 9s!
    u can also got stability when u evade an attack for 7s

    u also got tons of way to heal ur self too!

    Compounding Chemicals heals little every time u grant boon
    Backpack Regenerator for better healing out put when u got ally who can give u regeneration and when use supply crate
    medic gyro for best heal/s , 4560+460x5 area heal for ally / 20s = best skill! plus water field pair with hammer 3, it's insane of healing out put = 9460 / 20s, healing turret or elixir H can't even reach a bit, and don't forget the tool belt is super long water field too!!

    and it's not over yet! we also got hammer 4 for block and hammer 3 for evade!!

    with all the damage reduce from protection, no cc from stability, tons of healing from trait and medic gyro, block evade for hammer, it's really hard to mess up!!

    AND

    for the secret of this build , i use sigil of cleansing, to perfectly cover up the big flaw of no condition cleans skill of this build, so u don't even have to use any skill , u just switch to grenade or switch back to hammer, then u got 3 conditions done!! perfect for open world running! on/off mount also clean conditions!!

    for support

    rune can porvide 5 stack of might + fury + switfness to ally
    Exilir B tool belt can provide 9s stability + 2 stack of might
    medic gyro too belt can provide 11.4s protection
    medic gyro for 2300 area heal
    Exilir U tool belt can area stun break and give superspeed

    i really enjoy this build, it can do everything, even DPS is really high, i can see my name on the DPS meter everytime!! even on top of it several times no kidding
    especially the 100% quickness uptime for open AB chest, harvest node, wood and weed etc... all the action can get done 50% faster !! what a wonderful world~

    before it ends , i want to share a cheap food : Cup of Light-Roasted Coffee, it gives u quickness for 9s every time u got off mount, which make ur open world running life so much happier :) enjoy!

    thanks for watching ! hope u like this build like i do !

  • Yazeed.4971Yazeed.4971 Member ✭✭

    i want to say something about rune of chronomancer, it's just not worth it to use ur slot skill for quickness only, i want to save heal skill when i need heal , or barrier gyro when huge damage may come out, not just for quickness...

  • I don't use my heal skill offensively @Yazeed.4971 .

    I find your build to be lacking literally any utility, the point of my build is that you still bring a lot of utility through stuns/projectile deflection/projecting destroy/ Soft CC and evasion, using alchemy +grenades is pointless, you might as well drop scrapper all together if you are doing that and just go holo.

  • Yazeed.4971Yazeed.4971 Member ✭✭

    @Flame Of The Titan.3649 said:
    I don't use my heal skill offensively @Yazeed.4971 .

    I find your build to be lacking literally any utility, the point of my build is that you still bring a lot of utility through stuns/projectile deflection/projecting destroy/ Soft CC and evasion, using alchemy +grenades is pointless, you might as well drop scrapper all together if you are doing that and just go holo.

    utility stuff that u mentaion " stuns/projectile deflection/projecting destroy/ Soft CC and evasion " is just another word of sustain for me

    the main goal here is easily keeping urself alive no matter what u do

    my build has good damage reduction source from protection, and good healing ability from passive heal and healing skill + water leap combo, also 3 condis clean /9s CD
    so there r no problem to keep myself alive, and don't forget medic gyro tool belt also provides protection to ally which is a damage reduction source similar with barrier gyro

    after I can keep myself alive, the second thing i need is Strong DPS to crash any enermy ASAP
    and to max out DPS output, grenade is the best slot skill choice which does not pair with alchemy, alchemy is for Eixlir B + U for 100% quickness uptime
    firearms trait is also for DPS, 332 is the best DPS output

    of cause u can switch grenade to other uitility skill for better sustain if u want, but other things u choose just drag ur DPS down
    I don't like long long fight with trash mobs, they must die in 5s

    also, i can switch Elite skill for better counter, not stuck in mortal kit and lose ur steath or CC ability

    holo got very high DPS if group can provide 25 stack of might ,fury and quickness for u , but is very weak fight strong enermy like meta boss which can one hit KO u or even croud mobs with cc ability compare to scrapper

    this build shine bacause it can not only very strong for sustain, but also got pretty high DPS output when fight alone, plus the variety of elite skills for different counter to use, i got 14K DPS for AB boss down the hole after meta is over.

  • Pagio.3029Pagio.3029 Member ✭✭

    Just to inform you guys @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 @Yazeed.4971 and @Flame Of The Titan.3649 that with the new patch the stats of the armors have been changed.
    Maybe you should update your builds.
    Thanks

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 18, 2019

    [UPDATE]

    The new patch has arrived and I've already got a couple of requests to "rework" my build. I cannot perform miracles, but I found a nice trade-off that works out. Sadly GW2skills.net is not updated yet, so I gonna write and explain.


    ALCHEMY: 1-3-1*
    TOOLS: 1-1-1
    SCRAPPER: 3-3-3

    Gear and Runes: Trinkets + Backpiece = Diviner, Weapon + Armor = your choice (mine Marauder's), Superior Rune of the Chronomancer

    SIGILS: 1 Superior Sigil of Concentration

    SKILLS: Hammer + Elixir H + Blast Gyro + Elixir U + Bulwark Gyro + Motar Kit


    Mechanics

    Object in Motion - This trait applies + 5 % damage when we have Swiftness, Superspeed or Stability. Maximum is 15 % = all three. That is our goal.

    • Permanent Swiftness can be achieved by using the Heal Skill and swapping Motar Kit once in a while. That is the good old kit-engineer 101 Streamlined Kits function.
    • Stability comes from the Defense Field (Bulwark Gyro Toolbelt), Elixir U & Function Gyro.
    • Superspeed is generated via Bypass Coating (Blast Gyro Toolbelt), Throw Elixir U (Elixir U Toolbelt), Kinetic Battery (after using 5 Toolbelt skills), Leaping Through Lightning Fields (Hammer 5 = Thunderclap, Function Gyro) via Rocket Charge.

    Stability and Superspeed cannot be maintained permanently, but the uptime is pretty good.

    Excessive Energy - This trait applies + 10 % damage when we have vigor. Thanks to the above mentioned Motar Kit <-> Stremlined Kits synergy, we can get a nice uptime of vigor. With a little training, you can synchronize Stability+Superspeed+Vigor uptime. That means we get to + 25 % damage output in total - for a short time-window. Before the patch we had 10 % from Perfectly Weighted + 5 % from Impact Savant - all the time.

    Downside - Maintaining 25 Might stacks is no longer guaranteed. You can still remain above 20 without problems. But it is no longer 25 all the time. The Concentration Sigil is used to balance this out without replacing any of your gear. You could increase the might stacks with replacing more parts of your gear with Diviner's stats. You also lose the cirt-chance improvements from Fire Arms, as well as a Fury source.

    Positive Side Effects
    - Better access to Quickness, thanks to Kinetic Battery. That allows you to focus more on the battle itself and timing Stability with Superspeed and Vigor.
    - Improved cooldowns of all Toolbelt Skills, which include the Function Gyro ^^.
    - Bonus Damage via Static Discharge.

    Notes: Alchemy 1-3-1 could also be 1-2-1. In my case Backpack Regenerator makes more sense, since I switch to Motar Kit whenever I have low health. Then I stay ranged until my health is ~ 70 % again. If you are more into barrier, you can also use Emergency Elixir.

    You are also free to pick another Sigil of your choice.

    There is also an option to replace Mass Momentum with Gyroscopic Acceleration, which boost your Superspeed uptime significantly. This new trait generates Superspeed at the end of Wells/Gyros and upon using Function Gyro. However replacing Mass Momentum will result in lower might stacks. You also lose the stability source from the Function Gyro. This depends on your preferences. I stick to Mass Momentum.


    Sadly I do not have a cure for the - 300 Vitality.

  • What do you think of the "drunk scrapper" using elixirs? Saw it posted and gave it a try. Had some laughs and it was stupid fun in bitterfrost doing my daily berries runs but of course did no hard things.
    I have been waiting on your update here though so thank you!

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lady Vanithy.6495 said:
    What do you think of the "drunk scrapper" using elixirs? Saw it posted and gave it a try. Had some laughs and it was stupid fun in bitterfrost doing my daily berries runs but of course did no hard things.
    I have been waiting on your update here though so thank you!

    I toyed around with my "surprise mechanic" variant in the raid DPS arena. Obviously made some modifications for PvE. I was able to sustain about 20kDPS.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Lady Vanithy.6495 said:
    What do you think of the "drunk scrapper" using elixirs? Saw it posted and gave it a try. Had some laughs and it was stupid fun in bitterfrost doing my daily berries runs but of course did no hard things.
    I have been waiting on your update here though so thank you!

    I toyed around with my "surprise mechanic" variant in the raid DPS arena. Obviously made some modifications for PvE. I was able to sustain about 20kDPS.

    Sadly, 20k - 25k is all you'll be able to muster with Scrapper Power damage. With Condi Scrapper, you can hit around 30k+, but I'm pretty sure core condi or holo condi is better, but that's for raids, Open World, you can do whatever build, but just saying :D

  • Virtuality.8351Virtuality.8351 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    Something I am running at the moment in Open World.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdIQFASncT5miyrkXZ1VqrwNVBWQ7lNRLTG14IUBxnYzUABA9fn3BOA-jxxXABhcBB8QHBDKB1R9ncfQAAo8b09HECQJ-e

    First of all, this build offers 100% Quickness uptime without and Concentration equipment. The sources are as follow, with duration all at base value:

    • Elixir U with HGH: 7.2s / 32s (22.5% base coverage)
    • Applied Force: 3s / 10s (~33.3% base coverage)
    • Superior Sigil of Celerity with Spare Capacitor: 5s / 21.5s (~23.2% base coverage)

    These add up to 75%+ base coverage of Quickness uptime, assuming every source is procced on cool down. This means that it takes only 33% bonus in Boon Duration (BD) in order to achieve 100% coverage, which is fairly achievable without allocating attribute points in Concentration. As you can see here, I managed to reach 46.33% with Superior Sigil of Concentration (10% BD), Superior Runes of Surging (15% BD), Compounding Chemicals (240 Concentration, or 16% BD) and Chocolate Raspberry Cream (80 Concentration, or 5.33% BD).

    Furthermore, I took Tools specialization for Excessive Energy (10% damage bonus) for I already have permanent Vigor via Elixirs with HGH and Invigorating Speed. Kinetic Battery also makes it a bit easier to manage Quickness uptime. Takedown Round is an interesting double of Orbital Command in the Explosives line. Wikipedia contributors suggest that the Skill Coefficient of Takedown Round is actually 2.0 instead of 1.5, as shown in the tooltip, which means that, while the attack is blockable, it deals more damage on a shorter cool down. In terms of damage potential, I'd say Tool is not as far behind Explosives as generally perceived.

    If Quickness uptime is not at all a problem for you and the need to break stun presents, swap Kinetic Battery for Gadgeteer and Static Discharge for Reactive Lenses.

    As for the ascended trinkets in Captain attributes, those are more of a personal preference of myself. One can certainly run with a full set in Berserker while still remaining fairly tanky, thanks to Alchemy specialization. For group contents, switch Elixir B for Bulwark Gyro for better group sustainability, as you should receive plenty of Might and Vigor from allies.

    My main point here though, is that permanent Quickess (in additional to Might, Fury, Vigor and Swiftness) is fairly achievable without Diviner or Harrier gear. I hope this would relief the suggested necessity of PoF expansion for access to the relevant attribute combinations from people with only HoT.

  • Yazeed.4971Yazeed.4971 Member ✭✭

    @Virtuality.8351 said:
    Something I am running at the moment in Open World.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdIQFASncT5miyrkXZ1VqrwNVBWQ7lNRLTG14IUBxnYzUABA9fn3BOA-jxxXABhcBB8QHBDKB1R9ncfQAAo8b09HECQJ-e

    First of all, this build offers 100% Quickness uptime without and Concentration equipment. The sources are as follow, with duration all at base value:

    • Elixir U with HGH: 7.2s / 32s (22.5% base coverage)
    • Applied Force: 3s / 10s (~33.3% base coverage)
    • Superior Sigil of Celerity with Spare Capacitor: 5s / 21.5s (~23.2% base coverage)

    These add up to 75%+ base coverage of Quickness uptime, assuming every source is procced on cool down. This means that it takes only 33% bonus in Boon Duration (BD) in order to achieve 100% coverage, which is fairly achievable without allocating attribute points in Concentration. As you can see here, I managed to reach 46.33% with Superior Sigil of Concentration (10% BD), Superior Runes of Surging (15% BD), Compounding Chemicals (240 Concentration, or 16% BD) and Chocolate Raspberry Cream (80 Concentration, or 5.33% BD).

    Furthermore, I took Tools specialization for Excessive Energy (10% damage bonus) for I already have permanent Vigor via Elixirs with HGH and Invigorating Speed. Kinetic Battery also makes it a bit easier to manage Quickness uptime. Takedown Round is an interesting double of Orbital Command in the Explosives line. Wikipedia contributors suggest that the Skill Coefficient of Takedown Round is actually 2.0 instead of 1.5, as shown in the tooltip, which means that, while the attack is blockable, it deals more damage on a shorter cool down. In terms of damage potential, I'd say Tool is not as far behind Explosives as generally perceived.

    If Quickness uptime is not at all a problem for you and the need to break stun presents, swap Kinetic Battery for Gadgeteer and Static Discharge for Reactive Lenses.

    As for the ascended trinkets in Captain attributes, those are more of a personal preference of myself. One can certainly run with a full set in Berserker while still remaining fairly tanky, thanks to Alchemy specialization. For group contents, switch Elixir B for Bulwark Gyro for better group sustainability, as you should receive plenty of Might and Vigor from allies.

    My main point here though, is that permanent Quickess (in additional to Might, Fury, Vigor and Swiftness) is fairly achievable without Diviner or Harrier gear. I hope this would relief the suggested necessity of PoF expansion for access to the relevant attribute combinations from people with only HoT.

    U maybe can use firework or pack rune for better result since shocking aura is useless...

  • Virtuality.8351Virtuality.8351 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2019

    @Yazeed.4971 said:

    @Virtuality.8351 said:
    These add up to 75%+ base coverage of Quickness uptime, assuming every source is procced on cool down. This means that it takes only 33% bonus in Boon Duration (BD) in order to achieve 100% coverage, which is fairly achievable without allocating attribute points in Concentration. As you can see here, I managed to reach 46.33% with Superior Sigil of Concentration (10% BD), Superior Runes of Surging (15% BD), Compounding Chemicals (240 Concentration, or 16% BD) and Chocolate Raspberry Cream (80 Concentration, or 5.33% BD).

    >
    U maybe can use firework or pack rune for better result since shocking aura is useless...

    Yes, those two are certainly great alternatives, providing more consistent boon uptime. The choice is another thing, aside from the Captain trinkets, of my personal preference, just to merely match the theme of Scrapper.

  • Pagio.3029Pagio.3029 Member ✭✭

    @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 ArenaNet › 12:07AM edited 12:08AM

    Engineer

    When the scrapper's profession ability was changed to an F5 skill, the tool belt skill from Sneak Gyro, Detection Pulse, was replaced. That skill was sorely missed as it >provided useful and skilled counterplay if well timed. As the profession mechanic needed to remain on the F5 key, we looked elsewhere and saw that Purge Gyro, an >inherently defensive and utility-centric ability, had a tool belt skill that did not fit its intent. Scrapper is also getting a bit of a tune-up with its hammer skills and a >reduction to the vitality loss of the Impact Savant trait, which was leaving them a bit squishier than we intended for a bruiser style of play.

    Equalizing Blow: Increased damage by 9%.
    Electro Whirl: Increased damage by 9%.
    Rocket Charge: Increased damage by 10%.
    Shock Shield: Reduced recharge from 20 seconds to 18 seconds.
    Thunderclap: Increased damage by 6%. Reduced recharge from 24 seconds to 20 seconds.
    Corona Burst: Reduced might gained in WvW to the same amount as granted in PvP. Reduced the damage of this skill by 20% in PvP and WvW.
    Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
    Function Gyro: Increased damage by 100%. Increased land radius to 240 and underwater radius to 360. Added clarification to skill description to clarify that function gyros >are destroyed when their skill is interrupted. Reduced recharge from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
    Shaped Charge: This trait now increases damage by 0.5% per stack of vulnerability instead of by a flat amount.
    Solar Focusing Lens: This trait now also grants 2 stacks of Afterburner when deactivating photon forge. Increased stacks granted from overheating from 5 to 6.
    Chemical Field: This skill has been replaced by Detection Pulse as the tool belt skill for Purge Gyro.
    Detection Pulse: This skill replaces Purge Gyro's previous tool belt skill, Chemical Field. The radius of this skill has been reduced from 1200 to 900, and its targeting has been >improved in large group settings.
    Purge Gyro: The tool belt skill for Purge Gyro has changed from Chemical Field to Detection Pulse.
    Sneak Gyro: Increased the cooldown of this skill from 45 to 60 seconds in WvW.
    Med Kit: This kit can now be used underwater.
    Med Blaster (Med Kit): Increased healing to match tooltip.
    Cleansing Field (Med Kit): Fixed a bug that caused this skill to remove more conditions than intended.
    Elixir U: Fixed a bug that could cause this skill to give endurance.
    Supply Crate: Fixed a bug in which the Healing Turret created from this skill would not overcharge.
    Health Insurance: Updated description and tooltips to accurately reflect the functionality of this trait. This trait increases incoming healing by 10% and increases outgoing >healing by 20% while using Med Kit.
    Mechanized Deployment: Fixed a bug that caused this trait to grant less than the listed 15% recharge reduction.
    Mass Momentum: Increased stability duration from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.
    Impact Savant: Reduced the vitality loss from this trait from 300 to 180.

    These are the newest changes fo our beloved Scrapper. Maybe we should change our builds now?

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    Here we go again.

    I've been experimenting with all kinds of builds since patch day. Sadly the barrier-situation is still unsatisfying, we are miles away from being a tank. Opposite to my previous attempts, I gave other rune-sets a try, as well as Adaptive Armor, even ran an entire test-line with the Superior Rune of Sanctuary. The results are not world-changing, but should work for now. Big thanks to @Virtuality.8351 with the Sigil of Celerity, this finally gave me the freedom to think outside my box!

    1.) Adaptive Armor Build
    Basically my old build with a few improvements. Thanks to the above mentioned Sigil of Celerity, I was able to replace 3 of the Diviner's Pieces (Backpack + Earrings) and get entirely rid of the Sigil of Concentration. So except for the amulet and the rings, you can choose your own stats. I go with Marauder's, because of the extra Vitality, which results in 18,622 HP at the moment.

    Boon uptime:
    + Quickness 100 %
    + 25 Might Stacks 100 %
    + Stability: At the beginning of the fight, almost 100 %. The longer the fight takes, you may run into breaks with 8-10 seconds without stability. Open World PvE should be no problem.
    + Vigor 100 %
    + Swiftness 100 %
    + Superspeed: ~ 16 seconds in a row, then 8-10 seconds cooldown. If you want to go for another long Superspeed phase, you may have to wait a few seconds longer.

    Barrier:
    3,500 - 5,500 depending on how many damage multipliers are active. During peak times, when Bulwark Gyro is active, you can reach almost 10k. Adaptive Armor has one major flaw, it is not a multiplier although the tooltip appears like one. AA triggers after every barrier that was granted to you, adding the 15 % of it with the source Adaptive Armor = your system chat will be flooded with barrier messages. I ran a few tests with the Superior Rune of Sanctuary, it was one giant mess.

    Damage output:
    Compared to the original one, it is almost identical. Slightly higher, but wasted potential. With my Marauder's gear I get somewhere near 4-4,4k. With more offensive stats, the result might be better. But as the barrier generation is not really high, running with low HP is risky.

    Playstyle:

    • Toolbelt skills to access Kinetic Battery. Superspeed from Bypass Coating, Throw Elixir U and Thunderclap + Leapfinisher (see below).
    • Thunderclap whenever it is ready and Rocket Charge to access Superspeed. If Thunderclap is on cooldown, you can also use the Rocket Charge inside the Funcion Gyro or active Bulwark Gyro.
    • Stability via Elixir U, Function Gyro and Defense Field
    • Swiftness via Motarkit swapping. If done correctly, it will not interrupt your rotation at all.
    • You can camp the auto-attack for damage, use Electro Whirl when ready and Shock Shield if you have to block an attack or need more barrier.
    • Permanent Vigor allows you to dodge almost every time you want to.

    2.) Strength Build
    Back to the roots, I used the Superior Rune of Strength ages ago in one of my early Scrapper builds. For the Might Generation, it is kind of an overkill, but you can build up the stacks in no time. This build is the first that gets rid of the Superior Rune of the Chronomancer, which is quite expensive nowadays. I wonder who buys all those. However Strength Runes are a lot cheaper at the moment. You get an additional damage multiplier of + 5 % whenever you have Might = always. Gear is the same, but instead of Adaptive Armor we return to Applied Force.

    Boon uptime:
    + Quickness 100 % (still)
    + 25 Might Stacks 100 %
    + Stability: Almost permanent, with only small gaps of a few seconds.
    + Vigor 100 %
    + Swiftness 100 %
    + Superspeed 100 %

    Barrier:
    3,600 - 4,500 depending on how many damage multipliers are active. This build still uses a Bulwark Gyro, so you can reach Barrier Peaks of ~ 10,000. (single target)

    Damage output:
    Tested with my Marauder's setup against the golem, increased by ~ 1,500 DPS. Again with other stats, the gap might be greater.

    Playstyle:

    • Toolbelt skills to access Kinetic Battery. NOTE: Start with the Gyro, else you overwrite its Superspeed.
    • Make sure to cast the Gyros by turn and between the Leapfinisher phases. To close the gaps, you can Throw Elixir U.
    • Thunderclap whenever it is ready and Rocket Charge to access Superspeed. If you are at low health, you can also cast the Medic Gyro and use the Rocket Charge for greater HP recovery. If Thunderclap is on cooldown, you can also use the Rocket Charge inside the Funcion Gyro or active Bulwark Gyro.
    • Stability via Elixir U, Defense Field and Toss Elixir B.
    • Swiftness via Motarkit swapping. If done correctly, it will not interrupt your rotation at all.
    • You can camp the auto-attack for damage, use Electro Whirl when ready and Shock Shield if you have to block an attack or need more barrier.
    • Permanent Vigor allows you to dodge almost every time you want to.

    3.) Furious Build
    Slightly higher damage output with another Rune and an additional buff. Barrier generation is almost as high as with the Adaptive Armor Build.

    Boon uptime:
    + Quickness 100 %
    + 25 Might Stacks
    + Stability: Not permanent. Can be extended to ~ 22 seconds. But this results in a gap of 10-15 seconds.
    + Vigor 100 %
    + Swiftness 100 %
    + Superspeed: Almost permanent, with only small gaps.
    + Fury 100 %

    Barrier:
    3,800 - 5,000 depending on how many damage multipliers are active. No Bulwark Gyro. (single target)

    Damage output:
    Slightly higher than with the Strength Rune set, although you do not have as many multipliers as with the other builds. The Ferocity boost from Fury and the Runes boost your damage output drastically. Even on my Marauder's setup, I got close to 5k.

    Playstyle:

    • Elixir B and Utility Goggles for Fury uptime, cast when ready or in need of a stun-breaker.
    • Toolbelt skills to access Kinetic Battery. NOTE: Start with the Gyro, else you overwrite its Superspeed.
    • Thunderclap whenever it is ready and Rocket Charge to access Superspeed. If you are at low health, you can also cast the Medic Gyro and use the Rocket Charge for greater HP recovery.
    • Stability via Elixir U and Toss Elixir B.
    • Swiftness via Motarkit swapping. If done correctly, it will not interrupt your rotation at all.
    • Analyze always at the beginning of a fight, to increase your damage output early by 10 %.
    • You can camp the auto-attack for damage, use Electro Whirl when ready and Shock Shield if you have to block an attack or need more barrier.
    • Permanent Vigor allows you to dodge almost every time you want to.

    GEAR: As with my previous builds, what you put in the slots for Armor, Weapon and 2x Earring + Backpack is totally up to you. For the buff-uptime as discribed above, you only need a Diviner's Amulet and 2 Diviner's Rings. You can also try out other gear with boon duration stats, the requirement is 345 Concentration / 23 % Boon Duration (without Alchemy traited). I use Marauder's for the extra Vitality to increase my survivability.

    BARRIER: As you can see in my builds, the barrier-gain is quite unsatisfying. Nothing to tank anything for real, you are just a better bruiser. Thanks to how Impact Savant works atm, it is often better to boost your damage output and ignore Adaptive Armor completely. Using Applied Force allows you to pick more powerful Rune sets than the Chronomancer, which usually results in more barrier-gain than sticking with Chronomancer and Adaptive Armor. I do not like that. This is opposite to the tank-philosophy of the Scrapper. This is not the end of the road, especially for the balance team.

    About Shaped Charge: Most of us still ponder about this fix. Why? Explosives was often taken as a multiplier-source, because it only required 1 stack of vulnerability. So it was a nerf to the Holosmith? That was my first thought. During the tests with Impact Savant I also made a few tries with the Bombkit, because I remembered our old abandoned Elixir infused Bombs trait. For those of you who have not been here so long, that trait allowed us to heal partymembers and ourselves by just spamming bombs. It was quite effective back then, long before HoT. The sad part is, bomb kit works with Impact Savant. Dealing with several enemies at once, it generates a lot of barrier quickly. And that is probably the 2nd reason why Shaped Charge got "balanced." Especially when dealing with multiple enemies, the 20 stacks are a joke. Even when I tried it against the golem, I was not able to go beyond 19. Feels almost like ANet does not want us to have access any easy damage-multipliers.

    Superior Rune of Sanctuary: No build about that? I ran tests with it, but the barrier gain is not that much better. 20 % of the heals sounds good in theory. But I am currently running a full analysis of all classes & skills to see what truly works with the rune and what not. Yesterday I did Thief and I have to admit, I have an idea why the wiki entry is not detailed - IT IS A GIANT MESS! Thief has so many different sources of heals, barely half work with the rune. In my opinion, the Rune does not work with enough heals on Engineer to be useful to us. When I have the list completed, I'll post it on the forums.


    This is the current state of my experiments. I reworked my build and tried to make use of the changes. Some things work well, others not. If I find something better, I give you an update. If you have any ideas yourself, please let us know. There are no stupid ideas.

  • Aooogah.1673Aooogah.1673 Member ✭✭
    edited October 5, 2019

    The best thing for open world is to run the scrapper equivalent of the raid build for holosmith, changing impact sigil to strength

    Hammer/force/strength and then laser disk becomes shredder gyro; holo 3 2 2 becomes scrapper 1 3 3 (1 is for the superspeed for damage bonus, really any of the 3 work well); in explosives, you can turn big boomer over to short fuse to allow your grenades to help you maintain fury.

    You can swap rifle turret to bulwark gyro or personal battering ram, as appropriate, or even blast gyro; it's pretty much a free slot.

    I hate to come off as condescending but of all the builds ive read through on this thread, this one blows them out of the water for sustain. 25 might stacks, something like 9-11K dps by yourself (25-26K on the raid golem), upwards of 25-30K burst when up against a bunch of mobs, and with it comes around 6800 barrier just...all the time. Constantly. Not to mention if you somehow go down, if your shredder gyro is still going at the time, it can rally you by finishing the kill just like we've all done with laser disk before. Run bulwark gyro over rifle turret? You become nigh unstoppable.

    You can even cycle in your medic gyro for more superspeed, and its water fields are longer than those of the heal turret which allows for much stronger heals - lower cast time as well.

    I love theorycrafting as much as anyone else, but it seems like overthinking the kitten out of things has robbed you of half your dps, and with it, all of your sustain. Your barrier comes from damage, so you need to focus on damage as your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th priorities.

    Oh, and as far as shaped charge goes, bomb kit is never worth it over grenade kit anymore; grenades are 3 explosions at a time instead of 1 allowing a much easier time maintaining vuln stacks, and before the buff to hammer skills last week, hammer autos were already about 5% stronger than bomb autos anyway. Cast grenade 2, 4, 5 off cooldown, and cast at least one of those or grenade 1 after every single hammer auto chain.

  • @Aooogah.1673 said:
    The best thing for open world is to run the scrapper equivalent of the raid build for holosmith, changing impact sigil to strength

    Hammer/force/strength and then laser disk becomes shredder gyro; holo 3 2 2 becomes scrapper 1 3 3 (1 is for the superspeed for damage bonus, really any of the 3 work well); in explosives, you can turn big boomer over to short fuse to allow your grenades to help you maintain fury.

    You can swap rifle turret to bulwark gyro or personal battering ram, as appropriate, or even blast gyro; it's pretty much a free slot.

    I hate to come off as condescending but of all the builds ive read through on this thread, this one blows them out of the water for sustain. 25 might stacks, something like 9-11K dps by yourself (25-26K on the raid golem), upwards of 25-30K burst when up against a bunch of mobs, and with it comes around 6800 barrier just...all the time. Constantly. Not to mention if you somehow go down, if your shredder gyro is still going at the time, it can rally you by finishing the kill just like we've all done with laser disk before. Run bulwark gyro over rifle turret? You become nigh unstoppable.

    **i don't even know how u going to get 25 might stacks, sigil of strength only give u 10 stack of might after 10 sec, without quickness, ur action is pretty slow, maybe only get 8 stack of might from sigil of strength

    yes, hammer AA do give u 4 stacks of might each chain for 8 sec, u probabily need 2 chain to stack up for 10 might, however , for opening, it's always hammer 5 + 3 + 2 + grenade 2 + 4 + 5, then u start to hammer AA, so u basicly can't even reach 10 might for the first 10 sec.**

    **without might, fury and quickness, just not possible reach 9K dps only by urself on golem

    u only get alot barrier when full boons like meta event, solo? not really.**

    You can even cycle in your medic gyro for more superspeed, and its water fields are longer than those of the heal turret which allows for much stronger heals - lower cast time as well.

    I love theorycrafting as much as anyone else, but it seems like overthinking the kitten out of things has robbed you of half your dps, and with it, all of your sustain. Your barrier comes from damage, so you need to focus on damage as your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th priorities.

    Oh, and as far as shaped charge goes, bomb kit is never worth it over grenade kit anymore; grenades are 3 explosions at a time instead of 1 allowing a much easier time maintaining vuln stacks, and before the buff to hammer skills last week, hammer autos were already about 5% stronger than bomb autos anyway. Cast grenade 2, 4, 5 off cooldown, and cast at least one of those or grenade 1 after every single hammer auto chain.

    Sad note: even after patch, bomb AA still beats hammer AA

    ppl above , they want 100% quickness uptime, so they trade some damage for it. just different of play style

    full serker build need others to provide boons to hit hard, without it , also hit like wet noodle

  • Aooogah.1673Aooogah.1673 Member ✭✭
    edited October 5, 2019

    Sad note: even after patch, bomb AA still beats hammer AA

    I stand corrected. On the raid golem, hammer AA got 15,861 dps and bomb autos got 17,865 (tested about 3 minutes ago).

    ppl above , they want 100% quickness uptime, so they trade some damage for it. just different of play style

    The goal for a lot of people seems to be sustain, and they seem to be cutting their damage for sake of maintaining quickness by a larger amount than quickness restores, for a net loss of damage and sustain. I am trying to point out that chasing quickness is lower dps than taking what quickness you do get (30% uptime) and chasing damage.

    Possible exception might be something like BD runes vs Scholar runes, but even then, you have to remember that the ferocity alone from Scholar runes raises your crit damage by like 7% (15% out of ~230% total; 215% without the rune), and even on raid golem conditions where you're rocking around 4000 Power, 175 power from Scholar runes is another 4.5% (175 added to the 3856 power you have without the runes), and THEN you consider the flat 5% damage bonus. So even boon duration runes increasing quickness uptime from 30% to 34.5% wont matter to the roughly 12.5% DPS increase from Scholar runes (excluding the 175 power since that is contained in Pack runes too).

    These numbers are for raid golem conditions, so keep in mind all those percentages get even bigger in open world, because your power isn't boosted by banner of strength, you're not jammed up to 25 Might stacks constantly, no Empower Allies, etc. So the ferocity increase is even higher as a percentage, the power matters more, etc.

    Also, I am fairly certain rocket charge is lower DPS than even the hammer auto if you divide the total damage by the cast time, but I believe this gets outweighed if you use it to maintain your superspeed by always using it in a lightning field.

    Prior to the buffs to hammer, right when they made the last big changes in July or so that introduced the controversial Impact Savant rework, I found myself really enjoying the new scrapper, and testing it on the fractal golem ("by yourself" conditions instead of the raid golem), arcDPS was reporting peaks of about 7800 with sustain closer to 7500-7600 dps. With the hammer buffs, and with you pointing out that bomb autos are even more damage than hammer autos, I believe 9K should be very achievable for solo content. Basically you would do Hammer 2 off cooldown right after Bomb 2, then one hammer auto chain (for might/vuln), then back to bomb autos and repeat, casting hammer 5/3 and grenade 2/4/5 and the toolbelts/shredder gyro off cooldown and weaved between that sequence. I'll test it out later, if I remember, though I will be using Impact sigil over Strength Sigil since I can't be bothered using an Upgrade Extractor on it.

    I wonder, though, since Bombs costs you a utility slot that currently I run rifle turret in:

    What is more DPS? Bomb autos, or Hammer autos + surprise shot + rifle turret?

    EDIT: I just ran a single raid golem test using only the above Hammer autos + surprise shot + rifle turret and got 17,630 DPS, compared to the bomb autos at 17,865. I would describe that as close enough to Bomb autos that hammer becomes preferable a) due to less kit swapping and b) due to better might generation for open world. Notably, however, the rifle turret prevents you from chasing after targets, and the bombs hit 5 targets instead of 3. But single target, I'm running hammer and rifle turret.

  • @Aooogah.1673 said:

    Sad note: even after patch, bomb AA still beats hammer AA

    I stand corrected. On the raid golem, hammer AA got 15,861 dps and bomb autos got 17,865 (tested about 3 minutes ago).

    ppl above , they want 100% quickness uptime, so they trade some damage for it. just different of play style

    The goal for a lot of people seems to be sustain, and they seem to be cutting their damage for sake of maintaining quickness by a larger amount than quickness restores, for a net loss of damage and sustain. I am trying to point out that chasing quickness is lower dps than taking what quickness you do get (30% uptime) and chasing damage.

    After damage to barrier patch, u do get great sustsin from all the output damage, so istead of invest hp or toughness, u can simply invest damge and get both.

    Possible exception might be something like BD runes vs Scholar runes, but even then, you have to remember that the ferocity alone from Scholar runes raises your crit damage by like 7% (15% out of ~230% total; 215% without the rune), and even on raid golem conditions where you're rocking around 4000 Power, 175 power from Scholar runes is another 4.5% (175 added to the 3856 power you have without the runes), and THEN you consider the flat 5% damage bonus. So even boon duration runes increasing quickness uptime from 30% to 34.5% wont matter to the roughly 12.5% DPS increase from Scholar runes (excluding the 175 power since that is contained in Pack runes too).

    For solo with full zerker build, u normally has 10 might with poorly cover of quickness means no 200 power for u.
    U can Only count on 3000 power which is 150 power for 5% damage.
    Its like 175+225+150=550 point from scholar rune

    On th other hand

    Pack rune only give u 175+125+225(BD) =525 point, however, it gives u might fury and swiftness(which also increase damage), 5 stack of might boost ur quickness up time, it also covers fury

    Really not a bad choice for solo scrapper

    But for pve meta ,full zerker is the best.

    These numbers are for raid golem conditions, so keep in mind all those percentages get even bigger in open world, because your power isn't boosted by banner of strength, you're not jammed up to 25 Might stacks constantly, no Empower Allies, etc. So the ferocity increase is even higher as a percentage, the power matters more, etc.

    Also, I am fairly certain rocket charge is lower DPS than even the hammer auto if you divide the total damage by the cast time, but I believe this gets outweighed if you use it to maintain your superspeed by always using it in a lightning field.

    Rocket charge is a hard to tell skill, cast time is around 2 sec with 3.3 damage modify. Hammer AA is 0.88+0.88+1.2=2.96 but cast time might be little bit faster.
    However, 2 leap could be a 2 daze with lighting field or 2640 healing which is a great bonus for sure. Also a 7 second of superspeed. So only use it on the field, without it, just AA will be fine.

    Prior to the buffs to hammer, right when they made the last big changes in July or so that introduced the controversial Impact Savant rework, I found myself really enjoying the new scrapper, and testing it on the fractal golem ("by yourself" conditions instead of the raid golem), arcDPS was reporting peaks of about 7800 with sustain closer to 7500-7600 dps. With the hammer buffs, and with you pointing out that bomb autos are even more damage than hammer autos, I believe 9K should be very achievable for solo content. Basically you would do Hammer 2 off cooldown right after Bomb 2, then one hammer auto chain (for might/vuln), then back to bomb autos and repeat, casting hammer 5/3 and grenade 2/4/5 and the toolbelts/shredder gyro off cooldown and weaved between that sequence. I'll test it out later, if I remember, though I will be using Impact sigil over Strength Sigil since I can't be bothered using an Upgrade Extractor on it.

    Bomb is really hard to pair with hammer for me, althought bomb AA do have better damage than hammer AA, however, u cant use hammer 2 + grenade 2 everytime when its on because ur on the bomb skill, its really hard to count cd time. so u lose some damage for it

    I wonder, though, since Bombs costs you a utility slot that currently I run rifle turret in:

    What is more DPS? Bomb autos, or Hammer autos + surprise shot + rifle turret?

    EDIT: I just ran a single raid golem test using only the above Hammer autos + surprise shot + rifle turret and got 17,630 DPS, compared to the bomb autos at 17,865. I would describe that as close enough to Bomb autos that hammer becomes preferable a) due to less kit swapping and b) due to better might generation for open world. Notably, however, the rifle turret prevents you from chasing after targets, and the bombs hit 5 targets instead of 3. But single target, I'm running hammer and rifle turret.

    Thanks for testing though. A great note.

    Bomb also has powerful toolbelt, so it beats rifle turret even more for sure on golem, however for open world, u dont want to bomb ur enermy away, its just waste more time to kill it I guess.

  • Aooogah.1673Aooogah.1673 Member ✭✭
    edited October 6, 2019

    Bomb also has powerful toolbelt

    Ignoring your points about open world, which do make it even worse, for sake of testing, the bomb toolbelt is once every 20 seconds for around a 25K hit in raid golem conditions; call it a boost of about 1250 DPS. Surprise shot hits around 7-8K every 8 seconds, and is instant cast, making it easier to use, but call it about 1000 DPS. The rifle turret itself, which similar to the Big Ol Bomb you also cannot use that well in open world, would only have to hit a 500 every other second to outmatch the the difference between toolbelt skills, and on the raid golem I believe it hits closer to about a 3K.

    Either way, they are both very close in damage, but as you point out the bomb autos rob you of precise timing on some of your harder hitting skills and in general cost you a lot of might generation when you're running around on your own, and these two factors make it hard to justify running bomb kit over rifle turret.

    Pack rune only give u 175+125+225(BD) =525 point, however, it gives u might fury and swiftness(which also increase damage), 5 stack of might boost ur quickness up time, it also covers fury

    The point about fury is interesting in a way you don't bring up: running pack firework runes (6/20 fury vs 8/30) and traiting Explosives for Big Boomer instead of Short Fuse allows a 94% uptime on Fury with the built-in BD (would be 86% uptime on pack), which is plenty for open world and gets you that big increase to ferocity. I have conducted pretty hefty testing on different rune combos with full berserk however and the effective power is still significantly lower running Firework or Pack instead of Scholar, even with the extra might from pack or firework, and even with the partial swiftness from pack:

    http://puu.sh/Ept77.png

    Note the scrollbar on the right, though most of it is from writing out different variations of traits and utilities to test theoretical fury uptime (No Scope, pack/firework/rage, utility goggles traited with gadgeteer and not traited with gadgeteer, and elixir b traited with HGH and not traited with HGH).

    Here's the latest part I added, with some more details on my rotation for the raid golem (which I acknowledge is not the same conditions as in open world for solo):
    http://puu.sh/Eptdw.png

    As it turns out, that rotation (with stability added to the raid golem despite this boon not being supported by official benchmarks) now generates around 25,500 DPS—more than the extrapolated 25,100. The best I could get using bombs came out to around 24,000, though I am happy to test it out again, and again, and again, because I love Scrapper.

  • @Aooogah.1673 said:

    Bomb also has powerful toolbelt

    Ignoring your points about open world, which do make it even worse, for sake of testing, the bomb toolbelt is once every 20 seconds for around a 25K hit in raid golem conditions; call it a boost of about 1250 DPS. Surprise shot hits around 7-8K every 8 seconds, and is instant cast, making it easier to use, but call it about 1000 DPS. The rifle turret itself, which similar to the Big Ol Bomb you also cannot use that well in open world, would only have to hit a 500 every other second to outmatch the the difference between toolbelt skills, and on the raid golem I believe it hits closer to about a 3K.

    Since bomb AA only fill the gap when all skills on CD which is not that much time. So the actually different may be smaller than u compare pure AA for both, or even rifle turret is better than bomb kit. But u do get extra field for leap finisher which is nice to me!

    Either way, they are both very close in damage, but as you point out the bomb autos rob you of precise timing on some of your harder hitting skills and in general cost you a lot of might generation when you're running around on your own, and these two factors make it hard to justify running bomb kit over rifle turret.

    I have done some open world running, bomb kit actually match the rotation nicely, hammer 5+3+ spin gyro + grenafe belt+ hammer 2 +grenade 2+4+5+bomb belt+bomb 2+ hammer 2+grenade 2+fgyro+hammer3+5+spin gyro

    Kinda connect with each other, better than I thought actually.

    Pack rune only give u 175+125+225(BD) =525 point, however, it gives u might fury and swiftness(which also increase damage), 5 stack of might boost ur quickness up time, it also covers fury

    The point about fury is interesting in a way you don't bring up: running pack firework runes (6/20 fury vs 8/30) and traiting Explosives for Big Boomer instead of Short Fuse allows a 94% uptime on Fury with the built-in BD (would be 86% uptime on pack), which is plenty for open world and gets you that big increase to ferocity. I have conducted pretty hefty testing on different rune combos with full berserk however and the effective power is still significantly lower running Firework or Pack instead of Scholar, even with the extra might from pack or firework, and even with the partial swiftness from pack:

    http://puu.sh/Ept77.png

    Pack rune got extra 125 pre, thats why I choose it. With eixlier build which is nice to have extra 6% critical rate.

    For full zerker, firework might be better, or just use scholar.

    Buy from ur list, pack actually beats scholar, and not even consider swiftness 5% buff?!

    Note the scrollbar on the right, though most of it is from writing out different variations of traits and utilities to test theoretical fury uptime (No Scope, pack/firework/rage, utility goggles traited with gadgeteer and not traited with gadgeteer, and elixir b traited with HGH and not traited with HGH).

    I have to say, all the data build on 15 might is not going to happen on full zerker build, without it , u struggle to even reach 10 might which means no 30% quickness and +200 power for u from the trait! It a big damage lose have to count it in as well.

    If someone can provide boons to u, why bother even use strength sigil or other rune?

    With Boon duration build, u can keep 25 stack of might fury and quickness uptime to 100%, thats why it has the chance to beat full zerker build which even hard to reach 10 might and has poorly quickness uptime when solo.

    Here's the latest part I added, with some more details on my rotation for the raid golem (which I acknowledge is not the same conditions as in open world for solo):
    http://puu.sh/Eptdw.png

    As it turns out, that rotation (with stability added to the raid golem despite this boon not being supported by official benchmarks) now generates around 25,500 DPS—more than the extrapolated 25,100. The best I could get using bombs came out to around 24,000, though I am happy to test it out again, and again, and again, because I love Scrapper.

    According to wiki, full hammer AA chain cost 2.75 sec, even with quickness, its at least need 1.83 to finish the chain, hammer 3 should be slightly faster than it with quickness. This data is also confirmed by discord group. So after patch, I think hammer 3 is worth using now since it got extra superspeed buff.

    Funny note:

    hammer 1-1 actually has the highest dps than 1-2 1-3 ,since the cast time is pretty short.

    Hammer 1-2 1-3 has the same damage output because 1-3 has the longest cast time.

    So It doesnt matter if u break the chain , it wont cost u any dps lose, actually u gain dps if u just finished hammer 1-1 and stop the chain! Funny.

    Golem dps could be higher, as bad as me, can almost reach 27k with stability. I use rifle turret for it. Maybe bomb kit is something new to try it. Eixlier gun 4 is too hard for me

    Thanks for all ur reserch, great data thought!

  • I have to say, all the data build on 15 might is not going to happen on full zerker build, without it , u struggle to even reach 10 might

    I'm willing to test it again but I'm pretty sure you hang out at around 14-15 stacks of might permanently doing one hammer auto chain between every other skill

    from ur list, pack actually beats scholar, and not even consider swiftness 5% buff

    Pack never beats scholar in open world. Scholar has around 6% stronger hits (in full berserk gear) due to all the ferocity, and another 5% from the listed damage boost above 90% health (which should be always, because barrier); the swiftness from pack runes has a 26% uptime resulting in an overall 1.3% boost to dps instead of the 5% advertised by the scrapper trait. The extra 6 5% critical chance from 125 precision points does not outweigh the ferocity from scholar runes.

    According to wiki, full hammer AA chain cost 2.75 sec

    I'm really not sure how this data is generated. As far as I can tell the aftercast only affects your next hammer 1, but you can go right into another ability with no problem—especially if it is coming from another kit. I think things like surprise shot or shredder gyro cancel this aftercast as well. I'll have to run some tests to confirm that delay.

    Golem dps could be higher, as bad as me, can almost reach 27k with stability

    What boons are you applying to yourself, which conditions to golem, and what is your build and rotation? I've spent...a long time in front of that thing (close to 40 hours based on how much food/utility ive used up) and I'm pretty confident that my rotation has very little to improve on.

    If you apply all of the possible conditions to the golem, that results in 6% higher DPS than standard benchmark conditions due to the modified ammunition trait; if you apply all possible boons to yourself, that gets a few extra profession mechanics that raise your DPS as well. Standard benchmark conditions are bleed, burn, poison, torment, confusion, chill, cripple, blind, slow, and 25x vuln; standard boons are 25x might, fury, vigor, alacrity, quickness, regeneration, swiftness (and since scrappers uniquely get dps boost from stability, we add stability even though a raid group cant maintain perma stab); standard profession mechanics are spotter, sun spirit, frost spirit, empower allies, banner of discipline, and banner of strength. Our food is sweet and spicy butternut squash soup and our utility is potent superior sharpening stone.

    I am very interested to see your rotation that generates 27K DPS under those conditions on the raid golem.

  • @Aooogah.1673 said:

    I have to say, all the data build on 15 might is not going to happen on full zerker build, without it , u struggle to even reach 10 might

    I'm willing to test it again but I'm pretty sure you hang out at around 14-15 stacks of might permanently doing one hammer auto chain between every other skill

    from ur list, u write 25 stack of might on strength sigil and rest for 15 ...?

    It should be 14-15 for strength and 6-7 for the rest I guess

    However, for solo, ur opening burst is pretty weak, because u have no quickness + low might for first 7 second, it really hurts for most of situation for open world pve which combat ends pretty fast.

    from ur list, pack actually beats scholar, and not even consider swiftness 5% buff

    Pack never beats scholar in open world. Scholar has around 6% stronger hits (in full berserk gear) due to all the ferocity, and another 5% from the listed damage boost above 90% health (which should be always, because barrier); the swiftness from pack runes has a 26% uptime resulting in an overall 1.3% boost to dps instead of the 5% advertised by the scrapper trait. The extra 6 5% critical chance from 125 precision points does not outweigh the ferocity from scholar runes.

    Ur data says

    Scholar 8364

    Pack 8419

    ???

    I guess u should count pack for 80% crit only?

    According to wiki, full hammer AA chain cost 2.75 sec

    I'm really not sure how this data is generated. As far as I can tell the aftercast only affects your next hammer 1, but you can go right into another ability with no problem—especially if it is coming from another kit. I think things like surprise shot or shredder gyro cancel this aftercast as well. I'll have to run some tests to confirm that delay.

    Golem dps could be higher, as bad as me, can almost reach 27k with stability

    What boons are you applying to yourself, which conditions to golem, and what is your build and rotation? I've spent...a long time in front of that thing (close to 40 hours based on how much food/utility ive used up) and I'm pretty confident that my rotation has very little to improve on.

    If you apply all of the possible conditions to the golem, that results in 6% higher DPS than standard benchmark conditions due to the modified ammunition trait; if you apply all possible boons to yourself, that gets a few extra profession mechanics that raise your DPS as well. Standard benchmark conditions are bleed, burn, poison, torment, confusion, chill, cripple, blind, slow, and 25x vuln; standard boons are 25x might, fury, vigor, alacrity, quickness, regeneration, swiftness (and since scrappers uniquely get dps boost from stability, we add stability even though a raid group cant maintain perma stab); standard profession mechanics are spotter, sun spirit, frost spirit, empower allies, banner of discipline, and banner of strength. Our food is sweet and spicy butternut squash soup and our utility is potent superior sharpening stone.

    I usde excactly the same thing u wrote with 10 conditions, but I do remenber I used a assissan stance from revenant by mistake, I dont know if this one effect of any dps?

    I am very interested to see your rotation that generates 27K DPS under those conditions on the raid golem.

    I think the different is hammer 3, i use it all the time, I use it on the field everytime even with heal skill belt, and I only use spin gyro belt to pair with hammer 3, I also use f gyro to fill the gap for superspeed.

    Opening burst could even reach 28k

    There r not rotation, but I do have opening burst

    Hammer 5+3, rifle belt ,spin gyro , grenade belt, hammer 2, grenade 2+4+5, hammer AA x1 , hammer 2+ grenade 2, spin gyro belt + hammer3

    After that, I have no rotation.

    Good luck on trying!

  • Aooogah.1673Aooogah.1673 Member ✭✭
    edited October 9, 2019

    Ur data says

    Scholar 8364

    Pack 8419

    At the top is the effective power running short fuse for 100% fury uptime which gets scholar to 8669 (assuming 80% uptime on 90%+ health, which should be closer to 100% uptime on our nice barrier-rich scrapper). 50% fury uptime by not running short fuse is definitely a big loss to DPS, and short fuse vs big boomer is the main thing we're examining when we look at "scholar rune" vs "rune that helps fury uptime"

    Assassin's presence:

    Putting it together in the build editor, full meta scrapper build using infusions has you at 100% crit chance (on the raid golem) with 3797 power and 1467 ferocity for a 247.8% critical damage. Assassin's presence adds 150 ferocity to allies, which equates to 10% critical damage at 1% every 15 points of ferocity, for a total of 257.8% critical damage. This is a 4% increase in DPS which would translate your reported 27K to 25,952—a good 1.8% above the 25,500 I have been able to achieve; I would say we are at the same level but using hammer 3 in lightning fields as a replacement of that auto chain, as well as practice at cycling the med/shredder/stealth/function gyro to also maintain super speed (scrapper 1 3 3 is group-meta because might is provided and that way you get superspeed), should result in maybe 26,500 as peak sustained DPS and bursts of around 30K for the first few seconds of the fight.

    On another note, running firearms 3 3 2, explosives 3 2 2, tools 1 3 3, with rifle/bombs/throw mine/grenades/elite mortar kit, I have been able to sustain 26-27K DPS with the highest burst I saw being around an incredible (ignoring holosmith) 33K opener. As a power core engi without even using the benchmark hack of adding stability. You don't get the barrier running core engi, but wow, surely that's a sign that scrapper needs some significant buffs if the core spec can beat it despite being designed for condi DPS. It honestly blows my mind and really highlights just how much diversity this class really does have; I thought I already knew how diverse we are!

    EDIT: thought I would clarify that, from what I can tell, the reason core power engineer does more DPS than scrapper on the raid golem is because of static discharge, which helps on your toolbelts (as infrequent as they are), and because you get +10% damage when you have vigor (100% uptime on vigor on raid golem); the comparison would be object in motion for scrapper which is 100% uptime on swiftness (+5%) and...maybe 50% uptime on superspeed? 60%? If it is 60% uptime on superspeed that's 60% of a +5% modifier for an aggregate of +3% and a total of +8% damage from object in motion. The tools trait outweighs it in intensity and simplicity.

  • @Aooogah.1673 said:

    Ur data says

    Scholar 8364

    Pack 8419

    At the top is the effective power running short fuse for 100% fury uptime which gets scholar to 8669 (assuming 80% uptime on 90%+ health, which should be closer to 100% uptime on our nice barrier-rich scrapper). 50% fury uptime by not running short fuse is definitely a big loss to DPS, and short fuse vs big boomer is the main thing we're examining when we look at "scholar rune" vs "rune that helps fury uptime"

    Assassin's presence:

    Putting it together in the build editor, full meta scrapper build using infusions has you at 100% crit chance (on the raid golem) with 3797 power and 1467 ferocity for a 247.8% critical damage. Assassin's presence adds 150 ferocity to allies, which equates to 10% critical damage at 1% every 15 points of ferocity, for a total of 257.8% critical damage. This is a 4% increase in DPS which would translate your reported 27K to 25,952—a good 1.8% above the 25,500 I have been able to achieve; I would say we are at the same level but using hammer 3 in lightning fields as a replacement of that auto chain, as well as practice at cycling the med/shredder/stealth/function gyro to also maintain super speed (scrapper 1 3 3 is group-meta because might is provided and that way you get superspeed), should result in maybe 26,500 as peak sustained DPS and bursts of around 30K for the first few seconds of the fight.

    nuh, not this one, it's Facet of Nature—Assassin, turns out also a dps increase, so i redo the golem again

    and the hightest number i can get is 26475... most of it was around 26K, peak is around 32k which is really bad

    few notes from testings:

    1. bomb kit is a huge dps lose, down the number to around 24.5k

    2. hammer 3 is still a bad skill for dps if u don't need leap for combo effect, cant even reach 26k...

    3. hammer AA chain is useless if u don't need might, fell free to break it when other skill is up to use

    4. Function gyro is really powerful DPS skill because the short cast time, so use it on CD

    5. spin gyro tool belt can also increase few dps, but not so much

    On another note, running firearms 3 3 2, explosives 3 2 2, tools 1 3 3, with rifle/bombs/throw mine/grenades/elite mortar kit, I have been able to sustain 26-27K DPS with the highest burst I saw being around an incredible (ignoring holosmith) 33K opener. As a power core engi without even using the benchmark hack of adding stability. You don't get the barrier running core engi, but wow, surely that's a sign that scrapper needs some significant buffs if the core spec can beat it despite being designed for condi DPS. It honestly blows my mind and really highlights just how much diversity this class really does have; I thought I already knew how diverse we are!

    EDIT: thought I would clarify that, from what I can tell, the reason core power engineer does more DPS than scrapper on the raid golem is because of static discharge, which helps on your toolbelts (as infrequent as they are), and because you get +10% damage when you have vigor (100% uptime on vigor on raid golem); the comparison would be object in motion for scrapper which is 100% uptime on swiftness (+5%) and...maybe 50% uptime on superspeed? 60%? If it is 60% uptime on superspeed that's 60% of a +5% modifier for an aggregate of +3% and a total of +8% damage from object in motion. The tools trait outweighs it in intensity and simplicity.

    scrapper trait is pretty lame for any dps , stability and superspeed buff should atleast give 12% buff instead 5% since u can't have it all the time
    also quickness should give +300 power since other class can easily get +300 attibute from trait
    and hammer should get +10% damage buff from the trait as well !
    hammer skill 2 should get more dps buff compare to other class, 2.4 coefficent still so far behind, should at least be 3.5!
    spin gyro should also get 25% more damage buff and a blast finisher on the end, whirl finisher is pretty useless, can't even hit anyone lol

    26.4K with stability is just gross...

  • It's tricky. I want to say a flat, simple, "core engineer shouldn't get more power DPS than scrapper because scrapper was designed to be the melee specialization of engineer" but it isn't that simple. Power scrapper gets all that barrier to compensate for being about 10% behind core power engineer. I don't know if I would rather see a 30K dps power scrapper through further buffs to the hammer skills/scrapper traits, or if I would prefer to see elixir gun be buffed to let you apply might and quickness to allies. I am leaning toward the latter because that would cement scrapper healer's awesomeness without encroaching on holosmith's DPS space.

  • @Aooogah.1673 said:
    It's tricky. I want to say a flat, simple, "core engineer shouldn't get more power DPS than scrapper because scrapper was designed to be the melee specialization of engineer" but it isn't that simple. Power scrapper gets all that barrier to compensate for being about 10% behind core power engineer. I don't know if I would rather see a 30K dps power scrapper through further buffs to the hammer skills/scrapper traits, or if I would prefer to see elixir gun be buffed to let you apply might and quickness to allies. I am leaning toward the latter because that would cement scrapper healer's awesomeness without encroaching on holosmith's DPS space.

    u already trade 1800 hp for ur barrier, that is all. DPS shouldn't be the thing to trade, or give 1800 hp back!

    also , compare core engi to scrapper is just sad, core engi shouldn't be this bad also! 26-27k? really?? GROSS!
    u should at least compare to reaper which also grant self healing from damage!
    for scrapper, near 30K should be a must! or make scrapper like druid to be a pure support! then dps won't matter anymore

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