Scrapper is an immortal

People, what is this balance patch?

Whoever decided these decisions in the balance patch... I wish for you to suffer the same pain we suffered in the recent PVP days, and I believe that you will suffer.

It is not PVP anymore it is Scrapper verses, Scrapper. If you don't have a Scrapper in your team against a Scrapper in the enemy time, you will 90% lose. There is nothing to counter a scrapper, there is hardly any class that can instantly kill a scrapper, and the problem with scrapper it is faster than a FB and also can provide stealth, and can provide reveal! Revvies you from Afar and finish you from Afar. Even if you try to play sides and rotate with your time, there is no point of trying! Scrapper got super speed! and stealth! so you will hardly finish any of your enemies. I'm not saying nerf Scrapper to death, I'm just saying Balance it just like what you did with Firebrand. Literally, I have gone to the hospital twice there is no class build that can kill that Scrapper or counter it somehow, but there is nothing can work! CC Daze melee range... There is nothing can work. Scrapper blocks range attack for his allies and for himself and reflects the shots, and also can block melee attacks and dodge with his hammer, so like how on Earth can you kill a bunker who can stealth and blocks everything and reveals from your own stealth?! Give me answers!

Wait for a 6months or 1-2 years until they nerf it. If any class that overperform is not mesmer its fine (even if mesmer is underperforming they must be nerfed to be unplayble)

It's also useless

@djoun.3425 said:It's also useless

Yup, I too find the barriers, condi covertion, improved shadow refuge with lower CD, self and team healing, superspeed, node sustain power and mid fight team support completely useless. They should add a skill that lets them get barrier every 3 seconds when they get hit, that way they can negate some of the damage they receive, as well as make it so that every condi they convert have no ICD like literally any other strong GM trait along those lines. Personally Im looking forward to the buffs so they can be useful for their team.

@KumaDXL.9124 said:If you don't have a Scrapper in your team against a Scrapper in the enemy time, you will 90% lose. There is nothing to counter a scrapper, there is hardly any class that can instantly kill a scrapper, and the problem with scrapper it is faster than a FB and also can provide stealth, and can provide reveal!

Literally any other sidenoder or duelist can stall a scrapper and render them pointless. Prot holo can do enough CC and pressure to push scrapper off the point for a cap, or at least a decap. I say this from experience, I do much better on prot holo than on scrapper.

Plus, I've seen plenty of revenants, necros, thieves, and warriors take out scrappers with +1's.

@KumaDXL.9124 said:Revvies you from Afar and finish you from Afar. Even if you try to play sides and rotate with your time, there is no point of trying!

When people complain about function gyro... #feelsbadman

@KumaDXL.9124 said:Literally, I have gone to the hospital twice there is no class build that can kill that Scrapper or counter it somehow, but there is nothing can work!

Whoa, whoa, what? You've had to go to the hospital over this?

@Fortus.6175 said:

@djoun.3425 said:It's also useless

Yes, no kill potential, unable to decap, cap or teamfight is useless.

@djoun.3425 said:

@Fortus.6175 said:

@djoun.3425 said:It's also useless

Scrapper is ok for unorganized ranked, but the build(s) everyone is complaining about is useless

It has no damage and can barely move around. How Holo isn't better in every possible way?

@Griever.8150 said:It has no damage and can barely move around. How Holo isn't better in every possible way?

Quite this. It's actually good if your opponents aren't smart enough and try to 1v2 or 1v3 you, but otherwise, the carrying potential is close to none, and you're too dependent on teammates.That being said, it's really easy to survive with at average rating, even by using skills on recharge, and maybe the skill cap from this build could be increased a bit.

@Odik.4587 said:Wait for a 6months or 1-2 years until they nerf it. If any class that overperform is not thief its fine (even if thief is underperforming they must be nerfed to be unplayble)

FTFY. This has been happening to thieves long before mesmer, and is still going.

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:Wait for a 6months or 1-2 years until they nerf it. If any class that overperform is not thief its fine (even if thief is underperforming they must be nerfed to be unplayble)

I find it so funny that thieves are always complaining about how "bad" and "nerfed" they are yet in the 6 years of GW2, they have been a constant in competitive play, and are found in all ranks, always have had at least 1 viable build and despite multiple nerfs, they keep finding strong meta builds:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquesthttps://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_Marauder_S/D

You can like or dislike this website all you want, but they only record the builds played by people in AT and ranked matches, it is peer reviewed and up to voting. They are on the highest tier (have had builds there for as long as the website has existed).

But nope, thieves are poor poor creatures who have no viable builds nor role that has remained uncontested, without the unmatched decaping capabilities, one of the strongest 1v1 and +1 build in existence that is the support killer, nope, not at all.Like, is anyone fooled by these comments anymore? I understand the complains when it comes from necros, revs and eles at different times, but thieves? Cmon..

Thief has remained meta because up till recently it was much much superior to other classes in mobility for the quick decap role and was delegated to a +1 role because it is weak garbage in a 1v1 with only ele being worse. Thief brings nothing viable to most groups in wvw and non pvp modes but dps and it’s not even best at that.a thief has one viable pvp build being s/d and that’s only cuz it’s the best it’s got not because it’s great. Ur saying in a PvP mode u get why necros,revs and of course ele’s complain but not thiefs lmao what? U sound like someone that has been playing the game for a month

as plat 2 player who usually get my ass whoop by Top 10 players

my 2nd game on Scrapper i could easily hold 1 v 1 against " the said " player.

another thing about this ... It's goddam easy to play ..........................

Hammer Scrapper is useless in most fights.. Does nothing.. best to focus its allies and then out man it to death once the rest are deadLuckily.. Scrapper still has builds then dish out damage :p

@Odik.4587 said:Wait for a 6months or 1-2 years until they nerf it. If any class that overperform is not mesmer its fine (even if mesmer is underperforming they must be nerfed to be unplayble)

Whoa there friend. Mesmer is still doing just fine.

@Fortus.6175 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:Wait for a 6months or 1-2 years until they nerf it. If any class that overperform is not thief its fine (even if thief is underperforming they must be nerfed to be unplayble)

Have you ever played a thief? I play 7/9 classes. At plat level. Thief is the hardest to play of the 7 I play. There's very little room for error. Since u die to most things in seconds.and your damage is inferior to every other class. U have to be constantly moving to find an opening which isn't always available since u can't 1v1 anything.

That in it self relies on your team either having a good sidenoder or team fight. So u can +1.

When I played war, mirage or scrap. It's much easier to carry. Since u can sit on far node n contest it for long periods of time and hop to mid and back. Allowing ur team to out number all the other nodes.u r far tankier. Die alot less because u can take far more hits. Allow rooms for lots of mistakes.

Given that rev has super speed from shrio. It is a better thief than thief. It's only Abit slower but the dps is far superior and you can def end fights.

On plat. There's little to no thieves.out if the 7 games I played this past sat. I saw 1 thief. You only find lots of them around gold 1. Where people cry about it because they let a thief kill them and call it op. But that's maily because they don't know how to fully play yet.

Reaper must be a good answear to scrappers

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Thief...is weak garbage in a 1v1wat?

@TorQ.7041 said:Have you ever played a thief? I play 7/9 classes. At plat level. Thief is the hardest to play of the 7 I play. There's very little room for error.

Yup, plat too here :D, and I think there are classes that are left with even less room for error; eles, revs, necros.  

@TorQ.7041 saidand your damage is inferior to every other class. U have to be constantly moving to find an opening which isn't always available since u can't 1v1 anything.

Im sorry, what?! No, no no, thats just not true, cmon man, dont lie.  

@TorQ.7041 said:That in it self relies on your team either having a good sidenoder or team fight. So u can +1.

That about describes about every match in existence, also, +1 isnt only 1v1s, you can +1 2v2 and 3v3 just fine.

@TorQ.7041 said:When I played war, mirage or scrap. It's much easier to carry. Since u can sit on far node n contest it for long periods of time and hop to mid and back. Allowing ur team to out number all the other nodes.u r far tankier. Die alot less because u can take far more hits. Allow rooms for lots of mistakes.

Well, thats because soulbeasts/spellbreakers/holos/mirages/holo/(and now scrapper too) are simply too OP good at what they do right now, but thieves eat supports like guardians and eles for breakfast, make necros life miserable, and can give non-mirage mesmer builds quite the trouble, and thieves are skillmatch up, so thats 5/9 classes > 50% the cast that thieves can fight on their terms, and no guardians/ele/necro is ever catching up to your decap shenanigans.  

@TorQ.7041 said:Given that rev has super speed from shrio. It is a better thief than thief. It's only Abit slower but the dps is far superior and you can def end fights.

Revs have damage, yes, but little sustain and their mobility depends on an enemy being there in the first place, meanwhile thieves have sustain, stealth and shortbow, meaning they just need to click #5 to a point and voila, more mobility, including the vertical mobility that thieves can use that always "forget" to mention.   

@TorQ.7041 said:On plat. There's little to no thieves.out if the 7 games I played this past sat. I saw 1 thief. You only find lots of them around gold 1. Where people cry about it because they let a thief kill them and call it op. But that's maily because they don't know how to fully play yet.

Man we must be playing different plat games: (last season 88th rank: https://imgur.com/YMl0cXZ, this season so far since I just came back from a 7 week break due to life: https://imgur.com/fBhyMyb) and I see a thief in almost every game, maybe a tad fewer now that scrapper is so common, but at the very least every other game. I have been playing since beta (old pict, now i got like 5.7k games: https://imgur.com/x8o0Abh) so I have seen all metas come and go, and like everything, you will have people hopping in and out, some know their stuff, some dont. Not fair to dismiss anyone who thinks thieves are strong just because they got killed by one, because I have killed plenty of people on my ele and I have yet anyone call me OP on it in the last 3 years. They are strong due to their unmatched mobility, unblockable damage on steal that prioritizes stability, unblockable attacks on sword #3 with high priority for stealing boons like protection, constant gap closers like sword 2 and steal that ignores LoS and are on REALLY low CD, or no CD, stealth is a thing, as well as lots of vertical mobility to run away, or get closer to a point like SB #5 and the double teleport on the utility one. Their +1 potential is unmatched and their damage is pretty damn good, they have single handily driven away squishy builds in ATs and when I see one in ranked and im on damage ele, i know either I switch or it is a 4v5.

edit: like, I get it, everyone is biased towards their favorite class, I know Im for eles, but you gotta take a step back (or 3) and see things through the eyes of other classes too. If you truly say that you play 7/9 I simply cant believe you when you say that they are THE weakest of all classes and THE lowest damage (when the mere existence of eles in PvP in their current state says otherwise, and no, PvE rotations are not to be brought up in PvP). Cmon man, all Im asking is for you to remove youself from the identity of your favorite class and re-read your comment and ask yourself is you can believe it.

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Thief has remained meta because up till recently it was much much superior to other classes in mobility for the quick decap role and was delegated to a +1 role because it is weak garbage in a 1v1 with only ele being worse.Always been meta, always will be, their mobility is god tier that nobody could ever beatThief brings nothing viable to most groups in wvwBecause its a roamer?and non pvp modes but dps and it’s not even best at thathttps://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/feel free to find who have highest dpsa thief has one viable pvp build being s/d and that’s only cuz it’s the best it’s got not because it’s great.Why its meta ? Why last ToL tournament had thieves and revs but not even one mesmer ? If thief so bad as you imply why not throw all of them in favor of broken mesmers?Ur saying in a PvP mode u get why necros,revs and of course ele’s complain but not thiefs lmao what?I dont understand why rev would complaint (actually the only class that kill them is a thief lol), necro complaint? I'm surprised as well , scourge fb always been meta since PoF launch .U sound like someone that has been playing the game for a monthIndeed, you are

Come on, not everything is bad for thieves. Thieves are the undisputed kings of qq, arrogance and delusionalism.

Thief will always be in meta range because they aren't bound by weapon skill cooldowns in a game that is entirely balanced by cooldowns. Slap a low effort teleport skill onto any of those weapons, and it's in the meta for free every day.

@Fortus.6175 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:Wait for a 6months or 1-2 years until they nerf it. If any class that overperform is not thief its fine (even if thief is underperforming they must be nerfed to be unplayble)

Play the class for longer than a year and figure out just how significantly hard it is to actually kill another player around a similar skill level. Then quickly figure out that currently many classes do what you're supposed to do better with fewer sacrifices. And less need for glassy builds.

No thief is asking to be OP. No thief feels like they should be able to kill an entire team alone and call it fair like mesmer. We're fine with not getting anything, if everyone else is realed in to our level. We just want to actually feel like a damn threat, and not have another moment of...

I took our half of your HP by burning a mug, a heart seejer, and a backstab and did half of your health in damage! Annnd its gone! I backstab again for a fourt of your health! And thats gone too! I guess Ill just run away.

But sure. I guess all we're good for is decapping. God can fuck us with the earth its self for wanting to be worth more than a rock in a shoe.

Another note. Metabuilds for thief is a bit of a joke. Theres nothing in the kit that can carry you. There are one hit builds and things like that, but learning how they work will make them useless. Really, its damage control, and mechanical abuse. And hoping the enemy is stupid enough to not realize whats happening when you do something like whirlaxing a warrior in a smoke field.

@Fortus.6175 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:Have you ever played a thief? I play 7/9 classes. At plat level. Thief is the hardest to play of the 7 I play. There's very little room for error.

@TorQ.7041 said

and your damage is inferior to every other class

. U have to be constantly moving to find an opening which isn't always available since u

can't 1v1 anything.

@TorQ.7041 said:That in it self relies on your team either having a good sidenoder or team fight. So u can +1.

@TorQ.7041 said:When I played war, mirage or scrap. It's much easier to carry. Since u can sit on far node n contest it for long periods of time and hop to mid and back. Allowing ur team to out number all the other nodes.u r far tankier. Die alot less because u can take far more hits. Allow rooms for lots of mistakes.

@TorQ.7041 said:Given that rev has super speed from shrio. It is a better thief than thief. It's only Abit slower but the dps is far superior and you can def end fights.

@TorQ.7041 said:On plat. There's little to no thieves.out if the 7 games I played this past sat. I saw 1 thief. You only find lots of them around gold 1. Where people cry about it because they let a thief kill them and call it op. But that's maily because they don't know how to fully play yet.

Maybe it's just because I am not at your level then. I am only plat 1. Or maybe it's cos I suck at thief. I played it the most and couldn't get to plat 1. Just simply went the other classes using most of the other meta builds. From 1 dps to tank. My win ratio drastically improved instantly, literally in 1 week, these include mirage to sic em to scrapper etc. Have not touched thief since.i don't see why I shld play it when I win more playing other classes. As fun as the mechanics are. I just don't like that it either dies too quick or can't kill people in seconds like Holo or rev or sic em.

I have not played ele. But I actually think it would play it similarly to how I played scrapper or mesmer and be ok. Sit n bunker node n help mid when needed which wins me the most games. Esp when u get put with gold players. Making their team waste time on you on far is by far the easiest way to carry.

I get that ele is weak but man can it bunker.

I did reread my own comment and I fully believe it. I believe thief is either under powered or everything else is over powered. How ever you put it. I think it's much harder to play than the other ones. Esp d/p. D/p needs it's nerfs undone.

I am only saying this for solo q. Since I don't do ATs.

And people say war is underpowered. I 9/10 would rather be on my tether breaker than on my thief. Because I know for sure if I get into a lower tiered game I can carry with it. Not to say it isn't because I also think war is underpowered. Can't kill a clone with FC... Wtf...

@michelada.2947 said:Reaper must be a good answear to scrappers

More likely, anything that got the ability to stunlock is a good answer to scrapper. Scrapper rely heavily on combo field and finisher not so much on boons, the reaper probably isn't the proper answer to them. If I had to guess an answer to scrapper, I'd most likely turn myself toward warrior and/or some unpopular variant builds of the mesmer. (Thought terrormancer might be able to put on a fight)