Scrapper is an immortal — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home PVP

Scrapper is an immortal

KumaDXL.9124KumaDXL.9124 Member ✭✭

People, what is this balance patch?

Whoever decided these decisions in the balance patch... I wish for you to suffer the same pain we suffered in the recent PVP days, and I believe that you will suffer.

It is not PVP anymore it is Scrapper verses, Scrapper. If you don't have a Scrapper in your team against a Scrapper in the enemy time, you will 90% lose. There is nothing to counter a scrapper, there is hardly any class that can instantly kill a scrapper, and the problem with scrapper it is faster than a FB and also can provide stealth, and can provide reveal! Revvies you from Afar and finish you from Afar. Even if you try to play sides and rotate with your time, there is no point of trying! Scrapper got super speed! and stealth! so you will hardly finish any of your enemies. I'm not saying nerf Scrapper to death, I'm just saying Balance it just like what you did with Firebrand. Literally, I have gone to the hospital twice there is no class build that can kill that Scrapper or counter it somehow, but there is nothing can work! CC Daze melee range... There is nothing can work. Scrapper blocks range attack for his allies and for himself and reflects the shots, and also can block melee attacks and dodge with his hammer, so like how on Earth can you kill a bunker who can stealth and blocks everything and reveals from your own stealth?! Give me answers!

<1

Comments

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    @KumaDXL.9124 said:
    If you don't have a Scrapper in your team against a Scrapper in the enemy time, you will 90% lose. There is nothing to counter a scrapper, there is hardly any class that can instantly kill a scrapper, and the problem with scrapper it is faster than a FB and also can provide stealth, and can provide reveal!

    Literally any other sidenoder or duelist can stall a scrapper and render them pointless. Prot holo can do enough CC and pressure to push scrapper off the point for a cap, or at least a decap. I say this from experience, I do much better on prot holo than on scrapper.

    Plus, I've seen plenty of revenants, necros, thieves, and warriors take out scrappers with +1's.

    @KumaDXL.9124 said:
    Revvies you from Afar and finish you from Afar. Even if you try to play sides and rotate with your time, there is no point of trying!

    When people complain about function gyro... #feelsbadman

    @KumaDXL.9124 said:
    Literally, I have gone to the hospital twice there is no class build that can kill that Scrapper or counter it somehow, but there is nothing can work!

    Whoa, whoa, what? You've had to go to the hospital over this?

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • djoun.3425djoun.3425 Member ✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @djoun.3425 said:
    It's also useless

    Yup, I too find the barriers, condi covertion, improved shadow refuge with lower CD, self and team healing, superspeed, node sustain power and mid fight team support completely useless. They should add a skill that lets them get barrier every 3 seconds when they get hit, that way they can negate some of the damage they receive, as well as make it so that every condi they convert have no ICD like literally any other strong GM trait along those lines. Personally Im looking forward to the buffs so they can be useful for their team.

    Yes, no kill potential, unable to decap, cap or teamfight is useless.

  • djoun.3425djoun.3425 Member ✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    @djoun.3425 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @djoun.3425 said:
    It's also useless

    Yup, I too find the barriers, condi covertion, improved shadow refuge with lower CD, self and team healing, superspeed, node sustain power and mid fight team support completely useless. They should add a skill that lets them get barrier every 3 seconds when they get hit, that way they can negate some of the damage they receive, as well as make it so that every condi they convert have no ICD like literally any other strong GM trait along those lines. Personally Im looking forward to the buffs so they can be useful for their team.

    Yes, no kill potential, unable to decap, cap or teamfight is useless.

    Scrapper is ok for unorganized ranked, but the build(s) everyone is complaining about is useless

  • Griever.8150Griever.8150 Member ✭✭✭

    It has no damage and can barely move around. How Holo isn't better in every possible way?

  • Abazigal.3679Abazigal.3679 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    @Griever.8150 said:
    It has no damage and can barely move around. How Holo isn't better in every possible way?

    Quite this. It's actually good if your opponents aren't smart enough and try to 1v2 or 1v3 you, but otherwise, the carrying potential is close to none, and you're too dependent on teammates.
    That being said, it's really easy to survive with at average rating, even by using skills on recharge, and maybe the skill cap from this build could be increased a bit.

  • Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @Odik.4587 said:
    Wait for a 6months or 1-2 years until they nerf it. If any class that overperform is not thief its fine (even if thief is underperforming they must be nerfed to be unplayble)

    FTFY. This has been happening to thieves long before mesmer, and is still going.

  • HardRider.2980HardRider.2980 Member ✭✭✭

    Hammer Scrapper is useless in most fights.. Does nothing.. best to focus its allies and then out man it to death once the rest are dead
    Luckily.. Scrapper still has builds then dish out damage :p

    A City of Heroes never die... A City of Villains will never surrender... Neither City will be forgotten.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    Wait for a 6months or 1-2 years until they nerf it. If any class that overperform is not thief its fine (even if thief is underperforming they must be nerfed to be unplayble)

    FTFY. This has been happening to thieves long before mesmer, and is still going.

    I find it so funny that thieves are always complaining about how "badly" and "nerfed" they are yet in the 6 years of GW2, they have been a constant in competitive play, and are found in all ranks, always have had at least 1 viable build and despite multiple nerfs, they keep finding strong meta builds:

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_Marauder_S/D

    You can like or dislike this website all you want, but they only record the builds played by people in AT and ranked matches, it is peer reviewed and up to voting. They are on the highest tier (have had builds there for as long as the website has existed).

    But nope, thieves are poor poor creatures who have no viable builds nor role that has remained uncontested, without one of the strongest 1v1 and +1 build in existence that is the support killer, nope, not at all.
    Like, is anyone fooled by these comments anymore? I understand the complains when it comes from necros, revs and eles at different times, but thieves? Cmon..

    Have you ever played a thief? I play 7/9 classes. At plat level. Thief is the hardest to play of the 7 I play. There's very little room for error. Since u die to most things in seconds.and your damage is inferior to every other class. U have to be constantly moving to find an opening which isn't always available since u can't 1v1 anything.

    That in it self relies on your team either having a good sidenoder or team fight. So u can +1.

    When I played war, mirage or scrap. It's much easier to carry. Since u can sit on far node n contest it for long periods of time and hop to mid and back. Allowing ur team to out number all the other nodes.u r far tankier. Die alot less because u can take far more hits. Allow rooms for lots of mistakes.

    Given that rev has super speed from shrio. It is a better thief than thief. It's only Abit slower but the dps is far superior and you can def end fights.

    On plat. There's little to no thieves.out if the 7 games I played this past sat. I saw 1 thief. You only find lots of them around gold 1. Where people cry about it because they let a thief kill them and call it op. But that's maily because they don't know how to fully play yet.

  • michelada.2947michelada.2947 Member ✭✭✭

    Reaper must be a good answear to scrappers

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    Have you ever played a thief? I play 7/9 classes. At plat level. Thief is the hardest to play of the 7 I play. There's very little room for error.

    Yup, plat too here :D, and I think there are classes that are left with even less room for error; eles, revs, necros.
     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said
    and your damage is inferior to every other class. U have to be constantly moving to find an opening which isn't always available since u can't 1v1 anything.

    Im sorry, what?! No, no no, thats just not true, cmon man, dont lie.
     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    That in it self relies on your team either having a good sidenoder or team fight. So u can +1.

    That about describes about every match in existence, also, +1 isnt only 1v1s, you can +1 2v2 and 3v3 just fine.

     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    When I played war, mirage or scrap. It's much easier to carry. Since u can sit on far node n contest it for long periods of time and hop to mid and back. Allowing ur team to out number all the other nodes.u r far tankier. Die alot less because u can take far more hits. Allow rooms for lots of mistakes.

    Well, thats because soulbeasts/spellbreakers/holos/mirages/holo/(and now scrapper too) are simply too OP good at what they do right now, but thieves eat supports like guardians and eles for breakfast, make necros life miserable, and can give non-mirage mesmer builds quite the trouble, and thieves are skillmatch up, so thats 5/9 classes > 50% the cast that thieves can fight on their terms, and no guardians/ele/necro is ever catching up to your decap shenanigans.
     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    Given that rev has super speed from shrio. It is a better thief than thief. It's only Abit slower but the dps is far superior and you can def end fights.

    Revs have damage, yes, but little sustain and their mobility depends on an enemy being there in the first place, meanwhile thieves have sustain, stealth and shortbow, meaning they just need to click #5 to a point and voila, more mobility, including the vertical mobility that thieves can use that always "forget" to mention.
     
     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    On plat. There's little to no thieves.out if the 7 games I played this past sat. I saw 1 thief. You only find lots of them around gold 1. Where people cry about it because they let a thief kill them and call it op. But that's maily because they don't know how to fully play yet.

    Man we must be playing different plat games: (last season 88th rank: https://imgur.com/YMl0cXZ, this season so far since I just came back from a 7 week break due to life: https://imgur.com/fBhyMyb) and I see a thief in almost every game, maybe a tad fewer now that scrapper is so common, but at the very least every other game. I have been playing since beta (old pict, now i got like 5.7k games: https://imgur.com/x8o0Abh) so I have seen all metas come and go, and like everything, you will have people hopping in and out, some know their stuff, some dont. Not fair to dismiss anyone who thinks thieves are strong just because they got killed by one, because I have killed plenty of people on my ele and I have yet anyone call me OP on it in the last 3 years. They are strong due to their unmatched mobility, unblockable damage on steal that prioritizes stability, unblockable attacks on sword #3 with high priority for stealing boons like protection, constant gap closers like sword 2 and steal that ignores LoS and are on REALLY low CD, or no CD, stealth is a thing, as well as lots of vertical mobility to run away, or get closer to a point like SB #5 and the double teleport on the utility one. Their +1 potential is unmatched and their damage is pretty kitten good, they have single handily driven away squishy builds in ATs and when I see one in ranked and im on damage ele, i know either I switch or it is a 4v5.

     
     
     

    edit: like, I get it, everyone is biased towards their favorite class, I know Im for eles, but you gotta take a step back (or 3) and see things through the eyes of other classes too. If you truly say that you play 7/9 I simply cant believe you when you say that they are THE weakest of all classes and THE lowest damage (when the mere existence of eles in PvP in their current state says otherwise, and no, PvE rotations are not to be brought up in PvP). Cmon man, all Im asking is for you to remove youself from the identity of your favorite class and re-read your comment and ask yourself is you can believe it.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Thief has remained meta because up till recently it was much much superior to other classes in mobility for the quick decap role and was delegated to a +1 role because it is weak garbage in a 1v1 with only ele being worse.

    Always been meta, always will be, their mobility is god tier that nobody could ever beat

    Thief brings nothing viable to most groups in wvw

    Because its a roamer?

    and non pvp modes but dps and it’s not even best at that

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/
    feel free to find who have highest dps

    a thief has one viable pvp build being s/d and that’s only cuz it’s the best it’s got not because it’s great.

    Why its meta ? Why last ToL tournament had thieves and revs but not even one mesmer ? If thief so bad as you imply why not throw all of them in favor of broken mesmers?

    Ur saying in a PvP mode u get why necros,revs and of course ele’s complain but not thiefs lmao what?

    I dont understand why rev would complaint (actually the only class that kill them is a thief lol), necro complaint? I'm surprised as well , scourge fb always been meta since PoF launch .

    U sound like someone that has been playing the game for a month

    Indeed, you are

  • Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    Wait for a 6months or 1-2 years until they nerf it. If any class that overperform is not thief its fine (even if thief is underperforming they must be nerfed to be unplayble)

    FTFY. This has been happening to thieves long before mesmer, and is still going.

    I find it so funny that thieves are always complaining about how "bad" and "nerfed" they are yet in the 6 years of GW2, they have been a constant in competitive play, and are found in all ranks, always have had at least 1 viable build and despite multiple nerfs, they keep finding strong meta builds:

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_Marauder_S/D

    You can like or dislike this website all you want, but they only record the builds played by people in AT and ranked matches, it is peer reviewed and up to voting. They are on the highest tier (have had builds there for as long as the website has existed).

    But nope, thieves are poor poor creatures who have no viable builds nor role that has remained uncontested, without the unmatched decaping capabilities, one of the strongest 1v1 and +1 build in existence that is the support killer, nope, not at all.
    Like, is anyone fooled by these comments anymore? I understand the complains when it comes from necros, revs and eles at different times, but thieves? Cmon..

    Play the class for longer than a year and figure out just how significantly hard it is to actually kill another player around a similar skill level. Then quickly figure out that currently many classes do what you're supposed to do better with fewer sacrifices. And less need for glassy builds.

    No thief is asking to be OP. No thief feels like they should be able to kill an entire team alone and call it fair like mesmer. We're fine with not getting anything, if everyone else is realed in to our level. We just want to actually feel like a kitten threat, and not have another moment of...

    I took our half of your HP by burning a mug, a heart seejer, and a backstab and did half of your health in damage! Annnd its gone! I backstab again for a fourt of your health! And thats gone too! I guess Ill just run away.

    But sure. I guess all we're good for is decapping. God can kitten us with the earth its self for wanting to be worth more than a rock in a shoe.

    Another note. Metabuilds for thief is a bit of a joke. Theres nothing in the kit that can carry you. There are one hit builds and things like that, but learning how they work will make them useless. Really, its damage control, and mechanical abuse. And hoping the enemy is stupid enough to not realize whats happening when you do something like whirlaxing a warrior in a smoke field.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    Have you ever played a thief? I play 7/9 classes. At plat level. Thief is the hardest to play of the 7 I play. There's very little room for error.

    Yup, plat too here :D, and I think there are classes that are left with even less room for error; eles, revs, necros.
     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said
    and your damage is inferior to every other class. U have to be constantly moving to find an opening which isn't always available since u can't 1v1 anything.

    Im sorry, what?! No, no no, thats just not true, cmon man, dont lie.
     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    That in it self relies on your team either having a good sidenoder or team fight. So u can +1.

    That about describes about every match in existence, also, +1 isnt only 1v1s, you can +1 2v2 and 3v3 just fine.

     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    When I played war, mirage or scrap. It's much easier to carry. Since u can sit on far node n contest it for long periods of time and hop to mid and back. Allowing ur team to out number all the other nodes.u r far tankier. Die alot less because u can take far more hits. Allow rooms for lots of mistakes.

    Well, thats because soulbeasts/spellbreakers/holos/mirages/holo/(and now scrapper too) are simply too OP good at what they do right now, but thieves eat supports like guardians and eles for breakfast, make necros life miserable, and can give non-mirage mesmer builds quite the trouble, and thieves are skillmatch up, so thats 5/9 classes > 50% the cast that thieves can fight on their terms, and no guardians/ele/necro is ever catching up to your decap shenanigans.
     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    Given that rev has super speed from shrio. It is a better thief than thief. It's only Abit slower but the dps is far superior and you can def end fights.

    Revs have damage, yes, but little sustain and their mobility depends on an enemy being there in the first place, meanwhile thieves have sustain, stealth and shortbow, meaning they just need to click #5 to a point and voila, more mobility, including the vertical mobility that thieves can use that always "forget" to mention.
     
     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    On plat. There's little to no thieves.out if the 7 games I played this past sat. I saw 1 thief. You only find lots of them around gold 1. Where people cry about it because they let a thief kill them and call it op. But that's maily because they don't know how to fully play yet.

    Man we must be playing different plat games: (last season 88th rank: https://imgur.com/YMl0cXZ, this season so far since I just came back from a 7 week break due to life: https://imgur.com/fBhyMyb) and I see a thief in almost every game, maybe a tad fewer now that scrapper is so common, but at the very least every other game. I have been playing since beta (old pict, now i got like 5.7k games: https://imgur.com/x8o0Abh) so I have seen all metas come and go, and like everything, you will have people hopping in and out, some know their stuff, some dont. Not fair to dismiss anyone who thinks thieves are strong just because they got killed by one, because I have killed plenty of people on my ele and I have yet anyone call me OP on it in the last 3 years. They are strong due to their unmatched mobility, unblockable damage on steal that prioritizes stability, unblockable attacks on sword #3 with high priority for stealing boons like protection, constant gap closers like sword 2 and steal that ignores LoS and are on REALLY low CD, or no CD, stealth is a thing, as well as lots of vertical mobility to run away, or get closer to a point like SB #5 and the double teleport on the utility one. Their +1 potential is unmatched and their damage is pretty kitten good, they have single handily driven away squishy builds in ATs and when I see one in ranked and im on damage ele, i know either I switch or it is a 4v5.

     
     
     

    edit: like, I get it, everyone is biased towards their favorite class, I know Im for eles, but you gotta take a step back (or 3) and see things through the eyes of other classes too. If you truly say that you play 7/9 I simply cant believe you when you say that they are THE weakest of all classes and THE lowest damage (when the mere existence of eles in PvP in their current state says otherwise, and no, PvE rotations are not to be brought up in PvP). Cmon man, all Im asking is for you to remove youself from the identity of your favorite class and re-read your comment and ask yourself is you can believe it.

    Maybe it's just because I am not at your level then. I am only plat 1. Or maybe it's cos I suck at thief. I played it the most and couldn't get to plat 1. Just simply went the other classes using most of the other meta builds. From 1 dps to tank. My win ratio drastically improved instantly, literally in 1 week, these include mirage to sic em to scrapper etc. Have not touched thief since.i don't see why I shld play it when I win more playing other classes. As fun as the mechanics are. I just don't like that it either dies too quick or can't kill people in seconds like Holo or rev or sic em.

    I have not played ele. But I actually think it would play it similarly to how I played scrapper or mesmer and be ok. Sit n bunker node n help mid when needed which wins me the most games. Esp when u get put with gold players. Making their team waste time on you on far is by far the easiest way to carry.

    I get that ele is weak but man can it bunker.

    I did reread my own comment and I fully believe it. I believe thief is either under powered or everything else is over powered. How ever you put it. I think it's much harder to play than the other ones. Esp d/p. D/p needs it's nerfs undone.

    I am only saying this for solo q. Since I don't do ATs.

    And people say war is underpowered. I 9/10 would rather be on my tether breaker than on my thief. Because I know for sure if I get into a lower tiered game I can carry with it. Not to say it isn't because I also think war is underpowered. Can't kill a clone with FC... kitten...

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @michelada.2947 said:
    Reaper must be a good answear to scrappers

    More likely, anything that got the ability to stunlock is a good answer to scrapper. Scrapper rely heavily on combo field and finisher not so much on boons, the reaper probably isn't the proper answer to them. If I had to guess an answer to scrapper, I'd most likely turn myself toward warrior and/or some unpopular variant builds of the mesmer. (Thought terrormancer might be able to put on a fight)

  • Don Vega Van Kain.9842Don Vega Van Kain.9842 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    To come-back to the initial discussion, i've began this saison quite late and i tried the scrapper after the patch.

    It's really broken as bunker but all you do is wasting your time and the time of your opponents if they have the good idea to stay fighting you at point.

    I don't play Meta (no damage) so i can have some damage + some bunker aspects (Gyro), i roam between 2 points to decap or help and i can keep point againt at least 2 ppl (if i 1vs2 good power classes, i die), the only classes that can chalenge me are Bunker weaver s+d, Firebrand and the new tempest. We'll fight eternally.

    In my main account, i still play protc Holo if i want play engineer but in my others accounts, it's scrapower.

    Troll since 1988.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:
    To come-back to the initial discussion, i've began this saison quite late and i tried the scrapper after the patch.

    It's really broken as bunker but all you do is wasting your time and the time of your opponents if they have the good idea to stay fighting you at point.

    I don't play Meta (no damage) so i can have some damage + some bunker aspects (Gyro), i roam between 2 points to decap or help and i can keep point againt at least 2 ppl, the only classes that can chalenge me are Bunker weaver s+d, Firebrand and the new tempest. We'll fight eternally.

    In my main account, i still play protc Holo if i want play engineer but in my others accounts, it's scrapower.

    I assume u r taking top all for scrap line. And using mortar for combos. Which is what I do. A good warrior or reaper can def end u if u used ur stab n stun break. N they get u. > @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @michelada.2947 said:
    Reaper must be a good answear to scrappers

    More likely, anything that got the ability to stunlock is a good answer to scrapper. Scrapper rely heavily on combo field and finisher not so much on boons, the reaper probably isn't the proper answer to them. If I had to guess an answer to scrapper, I'd most likely turn myself toward warrior and/or some unpopular variant builds of the mesmer. (Thought terrormancer might be able to put on a fight)

    Can confirm. I play scrap alot. Reaper can end u in seconds. War can also end you. Just not many people play it as much as boonbeast or mes. Hopefully we see more wars because of this. I love my warrior.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    Have you ever played a thief? I play 7/9 classes. At plat level. Thief is the hardest to play of the 7 I play. There's very little room for error.

    Yup, plat too here :D, and I think there are classes that are left with even less room for error; eles, revs, necros.
     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said
    and your damage is inferior to every other class. U have to be constantly moving to find an opening which isn't always available since u can't 1v1 anything.

    Im sorry, what?! No, no no, thats just not true, cmon man, dont lie.
     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    That in it self relies on your team either having a good sidenoder or team fight. So u can +1.

    That about describes about every match in existence, also, +1 isnt only 1v1s, you can +1 2v2 and 3v3 just fine.

     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    When I played war, mirage or scrap. It's much easier to carry. Since u can sit on far node n contest it for long periods of time and hop to mid and back. Allowing ur team to out number all the other nodes.u r far tankier. Die alot less because u can take far more hits. Allow rooms for lots of mistakes.

    Well, thats because soulbeasts/spellbreakers/holos/mirages/holo/(and now scrapper too) are simply too OP good at what they do right now, but thieves eat supports like guardians and eles for breakfast, make necros life miserable, and can give non-mirage mesmer builds quite the trouble, and thieves are skillmatch up, so thats 5/9 classes > 50% the cast that thieves can fight on their terms, and no guardians/ele/necro is ever catching up to your decap shenanigans.
     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    Given that rev has super speed from shrio. It is a better thief than thief. It's only Abit slower but the dps is far superior and you can def end fights.

    Revs have damage, yes, but little sustain and their mobility depends on an enemy being there in the first place, meanwhile thieves have sustain, stealth and shortbow, meaning they just need to click #5 to a point and voila, more mobility, including the vertical mobility that thieves can use that always "forget" to mention.
     
     
     

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    On plat. There's little to no thieves.out if the 7 games I played this past sat. I saw 1 thief. You only find lots of them around gold 1. Where people cry about it because they let a thief kill them and call it op. But that's maily because they don't know how to fully play yet.

    Man we must be playing different plat games: (last season 88th rank: https://imgur.com/YMl0cXZ, this season so far since I just came back from a 7 week break due to life: https://imgur.com/fBhyMyb) and I see a thief in almost every game, maybe a tad fewer now that scrapper is so common, but at the very least every other game. I have been playing since beta (old pict, now i got like 5.7k games: https://imgur.com/x8o0Abh) so I have seen all metas come and go, and like everything, you will have people hopping in and out, some know their stuff, some dont. Not fair to dismiss anyone who thinks thieves are strong just because they got killed by one, because I have killed plenty of people on my ele and I have yet anyone call me OP on it in the last 3 years. They are strong due to their unmatched mobility, unblockable damage on steal that prioritizes stability, unblockable attacks on sword #3 with high priority for stealing boons like protection, constant gap closers like sword 2 and steal that ignores LoS and are on REALLY low CD, or no CD, stealth is a thing, as well as lots of vertical mobility to run away, or get closer to a point like SB #5 and the double teleport on the utility one. Their +1 potential is unmatched and their damage is pretty kitten good, they have single handily driven away squishy builds in ATs and when I see one in ranked and im on damage ele, i know either I switch or it is a 4v5.

     
     
     

    edit: like, I get it, everyone is biased towards their favorite class, I know Im for eles, but you gotta take a step back (or 3) and see things through the eyes of other classes too. If you truly say that you play 7/9 I simply cant believe you when you say that they are THE weakest of all classes and THE lowest damage (when the mere existence of eles in PvP in their current state says otherwise, and no, PvE rotations are not to be brought up in PvP). Cmon man, all Im asking is for you to remove youself from the identity of your favorite class and re-read your comment and ask yourself is you can believe it.

    I realize from your other post you are very adamant on people lying about their rank. That's why you post pics to show off your rank to make your point more "valid".

    I am not at home right now but feel free to add my tag to check my badge because other wise my experiences don't matter. Or that playing other classes can basically push me into plat doesn't matter. Thief is still "meta".

    Also it's not really just me that thinks thief is under powered. Plenty of YouTube thieves that are much higher ranked than me think so too. Not mentioning any names.

  • Mathias.9657Mathias.9657 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    Wait for a 6months or 1-2 years until they nerf it. If any class that overperform is not thief its fine (even if thief is underperforming they must be nerfed to be unplayble)

    FTFY. This has been happening to thieves long before mesmer, and is still going.

    I find it so funny that thieves are always complaining about how "bad" and "nerfed" they are yet in the 6 years of GW2, they have been a constant in competitive play, and are found in all ranks, always have had at least 1 viable build and despite multiple nerfs, they keep finding strong meta builds:

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_Marauder_S/D

    You can like or dislike this website all you want, but they only record the builds played by people in AT and ranked matches, it is peer reviewed and up to voting. They are on the highest tier (have had builds there for as long as the website has existed).

    But nope, thieves are poor poor creatures who have no viable builds nor role that has remained uncontested, without the unmatched decaping capabilities, one of the strongest 1v1 and +1 build in existence that is the support killer, nope, not at all.
    Like, is anyone fooled by these comments anymore? I understand the complains when it comes from necros, revs and eles at different times, but thieves? Cmon..

    Play the class for longer than a year and figure out just how significantly hard it is to actually kill another player around a similar skill level. Then quickly figure out that currently many classes do what you're supposed to do better with fewer sacrifices. And less need for glassy builds.

    No thief is asking to be OP. No thief feels like they should be able to kill an entire team alone and call it fair like mesmer. We're fine with not getting anything, if everyone else is realed in to our level. We just want to actually feel like a kitten threat, and not have another moment of...

    I took our half of your HP by burning a mug, a heart seejer, and a backstab and did half of your health in damage! Annnd its gone! I backstab again for a fourt of your health! And thats gone too! I guess Ill just run away.

    But sure. I guess all we're good for is decapping. God can kitten us with the earth its self for wanting to be worth more than a rock in a shoe.

    Another note. Metabuilds for thief is a bit of a joke. Theres nothing in the kit that can carry you. There are one hit builds and things like that, but learning how they work will make them useless. Really, its damage control, and mechanical abuse. And hoping the enemy is stupid enough to not realize whats happening when you do something like whirlaxing a warrior in a smoke field.

    S/D is far superior to D/P. Thief is perfectly fine, if you want to be a brawler you are on the wrong class.

    MESMER MAIN SPOTTED

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anet needs to be quick with scrapper nerfs. Lots of people leave with such garbage in game

  • Don Vega Van Kain.9842Don Vega Van Kain.9842 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    I assume u r taking top all for scrap line. And using mortar for combos. Which is what I do. A good warrior or reaper can def end u if u used ur stab n stun break. N they get u. > @Dadnir.5038 said:

    Not even close :) , i take Explosive instead of alchemy 2 2 3 (2250 power, ~60% precision, 200% criti, ~20k health) also sneak Gyro specially for detection pulse (very usefull against mesmers and some thiefs)

    have no trouble with reaper, the same animation all the time before they burst you, Elixir gun 4 to get away or hammer 4 + f1 + bulwark gyro (all the block/damage reduc. u have) if u chilled, otherwise, yep war can be a pain in the ***, you have to temper and pay attention to all his movement, he hit too hard.

    Troll since 1988.

  • @TorQ.7041 said:
    I am not at home right now but feel free to add my tag to check my badge because other wise my experiences don't matter. Or that playing other classes can basically push me into plat doesn't matter. Thief is still "meta".

    Also it's not really just me that thinks thief is under powered. Plenty of YouTube thieves that are much higher ranked than me think so too. Not mentioning any names.

    Thief is not OP, all what he have of OP is his mobility, he's much more...annoying with his builds (sword build with the 2 2 2 2 and the staff one with all the evades)

    Thief is more like a fly who harass and you kill you with wear.

    Troll since 1988.

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    words

    Hey man, i remind you YOU are the one that brought rank TWICE in your post, you will notice that i only post my rank picts when thats the case......

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    words

    Hey man, i remind you YOU are the one that brought rank TWICE in your post, you will notice that i only post my rank picts when thats the case......

    I bought it up because. It shows that changing your class movies you up a rank quite easily. To me that's shows how much harder thief is to play compared to other classes

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    I am not at home right now but feel free to add my tag to check my badge because other wise my experiences don't matter. Or that playing other classes can basically push me into plat doesn't matter. Thief is still "meta".

    Also it's not really just me that thinks thief is under powered. Plenty of YouTube thieves that are much higher ranked than me think so too. Not mentioning any names.

    Thief is not OP, all what he have of OP is his mobility, he's much more...annoying with his builds (sword build with the 2 2 2 2 and the staff one with all the evades)

    Thief is more like a fly who harass and you kill you with wear.

    I think you misunderstood what I meant. I was basically being scarastic to that guy who thinks thief is great and meta.

    I fully support what you say. That it's just an annoyance. Unless it's some God tier player like Sindrener. But that guy basically plays any class well. As much as I don't like him. I admit he is good.

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    words

    Hey man, i remind you YOU are the one that brought rank TWICE in your post, you will notice that i only post my rank picts when thats the case......

    I bought it up because. It shows that changing your class movies you up a rank quite easily. To me that's shows how much harder thief is to play compared to other classes

    And thats fine, but dont expect someone to not use the same argument back. I actively try to detract discussions to go in the direction of rank, and the reason I made that thread is TO STOP that from happening by having everyone showing bare. If you talk about rank, i will talk back about rank, it is only fair <3
    Im only hoping that people that bring rank into the discussion back it up with picts too, because anyone can lie about it, or better yet, rank is never brought up to discussion unless it is about problems about certain classes at certain ranks

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    I assume u r taking top all for scrap line. And using mortar for combos. Which is what I do. A good warrior or reaper can def end u if u used ur stab n stun break. N they get u. > @Dadnir.5038 said:

    Not even close :) , i take Explosive instead of alchemy 2 2 3 (2250 power, ~60% precision, 200% criti, ~20k health) also sneak Gyro specially for detection pulse (very usefull against mesmers and some thiefs)

    have no trouble with reaper, the same animation all the time before they burst you, Elixir gun 4 to get away or hammer 4 + f1 + bulwark gyro (all the block/damage reduc. u have) if u chilled, otherwise, yep war can be a pain in the ***, you have to temper and pay attention to all his movement, he hit too hard.

    Interesting. I might have to try that out. I prefer mortar for it's combos. I get that sneak let's u get out Scott free. But my aim is to tank as much as possible and waste other teams time as much as possible.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    words

    Hey man, i remind you YOU are the one that brought rank TWICE in your post, you will notice that i only post my rank picts when thats the case......

    I bought it up because. It shows that changing your class movies you up a rank quite easily. To me that's shows how much harder thief is to play compared to other classes

    And thats fine, but dont expect someone to not use the same argument back. I actively try to detract discussions to go in the direction of rank, and the reason I made that thread is TO STOP that from happening by having everyone showing bare. If you talk about rank, i will talk back about rank, it is only fair <3

    Ok then. I misunderstood. My reference to my rank isn't about that I am better and my argument is more valid than a gold.

    It's more of a reference to that to get to g3 to P1. Simply don't play thief and play some else that's meta. And to me that's why it's unfair.

    And yes I am biased and it's entirely possible that I am bad as thief. But from my own games this is what I observed.

  • @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    I am not at home right now but feel free to add my tag to check my badge because other wise my experiences don't matter. Or that playing other classes can basically push me into plat doesn't matter. Thief is still "meta".

    Also it's not really just me that thinks thief is under powered. Plenty of YouTube thieves that are much higher ranked than me think so too. Not mentioning any names.

    Thief is not OP, all what he have of OP is his mobility, he's much more...annoying with his builds (sword build with the 2 2 2 2 and the staff one with all the evades)

    Thief is more like a fly who harass and you kill you with wear.

    I think you misunderstood what I meant. I was basically being scarastic to that guy who thinks thief is great and meta.

    I fully support what you say. That it's just an annoyance. Unless it's some God tier player like Sindrener. But that guy basically plays any class well. As much as I don't like him. I admit he is good.

    I got you. Now let me go jump ibto a pile of pointy horns for my defensive stupidity.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ah, it's funny to see the shoe on the other foot and how quickly people switch tones when it's their class people raise concerns about.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Thief...is weak garbage in a 1v1

    wat?

    Apart from Yolo de that relys on 1 shot, melee thief isn't really good at 1v1, may be vs rev or power mesmer but thats about it.

  • Rusty.9348Rusty.9348 Member ✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    I llllove this community. Before the patch they were like "OMG, the power creep is so awful! Ppl die too fast! Poor scrapper is underpowered!" Now they complain "OMG, we dont wanna fight for too long! Ppl don't wanna die when we press 12345! Scrapper is an immortal!" And you want Anet listen to your demands.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rusty.9348 said:
    I llllove this community. Before the patch they were like "OMG, the power creep is so awful! Ppl die too fast! Poor scrapper is underpowered!" Now they complain "OMG, we dont wanna fight for too long! Ppl don't wanna die when we press 12345! Scrapper is an immortal!" And you want Anet listen to your demands.

    That's the eternal circle of balance. Players are never happy with the "meta". They die? To much damage/powercreep. They can't kill something? Bring down the bunker meta!! CC become meta to counter the bunker meta? CC are OP, please nerf!... etc.

  • Rusty.9348Rusty.9348 Member ✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    That's the eternal circle of balance. Players are never happy with the "meta". They die? To much damage/powercreep. They can't kill something? Bring down the bunker meta!! CC become meta to counter the bunker meta? CC are OP, please nerf!... etc.

    The problem is that it never ends and you have no chance to really nail your class. As a newbie player, I have already seen three engi rebalances.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rusty.9348 said:
    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    That's the eternal circle of balance. Players are never happy with the "meta". They die? To much damage/powercreep. They can't kill something? Bring down the bunker meta!! CC become meta to counter the bunker meta? CC are OP, please nerf!... etc.

    The problem is that it never ends and you have no chance to really nail your class. As a newbie player, I have already seen three engi rebalances.

    All the skills and match ups you learned on one build will continue to serve you if your build gets changed or even completely taken out of the meta.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    Wait for a 6months or 1-2 years until they nerf it. If any class that overperform is not thief its fine (even if thief is underperforming they must be nerfed to be unplayble)

    FTFY. This has been happening to thieves long before mesmer, and is still going.

    I find it so funny that thieves are always complaining about how "bad" and "nerfed" they are yet in the 6 years of GW2, they have been a constant in competitive play, and are found in all ranks, always have had at least 1 viable build and despite multiple nerfs, they keep finding strong meta builds:

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_Marauder_S/D

    You can like or dislike this website all you want, but they only record the builds played by people in AT and ranked matches, it is peer reviewed and up to voting. They are on the highest tier (have had builds there for as long as the website has existed).

    But nope, thieves are poor poor creatures who have no viable builds nor role that has remained uncontested, without the unmatched decaping capabilities, one of the strongest 1v1 and +1 build in existence that is the support killer, nope, not at all.
    Like, is anyone fooled by these comments anymore? I understand the complains when it comes from necros, revs and eles at different times, but thieves? Cmon..

    Of course Thief remains Meta. They have Shortbow 5. However, you are critically wrong on one aspect. "One of the strongest 1v1 builds in existence". The correct wording would be "the single weakest 1v1 build in existence". Unless the enemy thief is much better than you are, you should never be losing the 1v1 on any build that wants to 1v1. Hell, even most teamfighting builds that usually struggle in 1v1 still should not lose to thief. The problem with thief is that while it will always be strong, because being able to move around the map twice as fast as any other class, in a gamemode where standing on points is the best thing you can do, is incredibly strong, its arguably not very engaging or satisfying. The class was pitched as the standin for assassin. A rogue class. A class you expect to be very strong in 1v1s in exchange for being very weak in teamfights. Instead, you get sPvPs Janitor. Always neccessary, but I imagine not the job most people find fulfilling.

    Edit: Oh and since I forgot, the reason people complain about thief nerfs, is what they target. Any time a thief build appears, that actually can win some 1v1s, it immideatly gets nerfed. Sometimes even builds that arent even good enough for that randomly get nerfed. Those nerfs obviously do nothing about Thieves meta status because none ever touched shortbow 5, but they make trying to play thief as a dueling class even more pointless.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    Wait for a 6months or 1-2 years until they nerf it. If any class that overperform is not thief its fine (even if thief is underperforming they must be nerfed to be unplayble)

    FTFY. This has been happening to thieves long before mesmer, and is still going.

    I find it so funny that thieves are always complaining about how "bad" and "nerfed" they are yet in the 6 years of GW2, they have been a constant in competitive play, and are found in all ranks, always have had at least 1 viable build and despite multiple nerfs, they keep finding strong meta builds:

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_Marauder_S/D

    You can like or dislike this website all you want, but they only record the builds played by people in AT and ranked matches, it is peer reviewed and up to voting. They are on the highest tier (have had builds there for as long as the website has existed).

    But nope, thieves are poor poor creatures who have no viable builds nor role that has remained uncontested, without the unmatched decaping capabilities, one of the strongest 1v1 and +1 build in existence that is the support killer, nope, not at all.
    Like, is anyone fooled by these comments anymore? I understand the complains when it comes from necros, revs and eles at different times, but thieves? Cmon..

    Of course Thief remains Meta. They have Shortbow 5. However, you are critically wrong on one aspect. "One of the strongest 1v1 builds in existence". The correct wording would be "the single weakest 1v1 build in existence". Unless the enemy thief is much better than you are, you should never be losing the 1v1 on any build that wants to 1v1. Hell, even most teamfighting builds that usually struggle in 1v1 still should not lose to thief. The problem with thief is that while it will always be strong, because being able to move around the map twice as fast as any other class, in a gamemode where standing on points is the best thing you can do, is incredibly strong, its arguably not very engaging or satisfying. The class was pitched as the standin for assassin. A rogue class. A class you expect to be very strong in 1v1s in exchange for being very weak in teamfights. Instead, you get sPvPs Janitor. Always neccessary, but I imagine not the job most people find fulfilling.

    Edit: Oh and since I forgot, the reason people complain about thief nerfs, is what they target. Any time a thief build appears, that actually can win some 1v1s, it immideatly gets nerfed. Sometimes even builds that arent even good enough for that randomly get nerfed. Those nerfs obviously do nothing about Thieves meta status because none ever touched shortbow 5, but they make trying to play thief as a dueling class even more pointless.

    Adding to this, you would think the one with the mobility, and the role of being an assassin would not only be responsible for going deep into enemy lines to decap/cap. But also eliminate anyone they find roaming alone, weakened, or far from their group in team fights. But nope, can't do that. Thief can't out trade any reasonable build.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    It's a matter of perspective.
    If you take into account thieves regularly suggest stuff as an F skill that does shortbow 5, dd dodge costing 15 endurance, backstab insta kill, death blossom marking a target and teleporting to the target at will with 10000 range, rifle 2000 range on deadeye, etc, yes they're really really weak.
    On the other hand if you have a minor clue about balance they're not weak.

    Also laughing at worst 1v1 build in existence. Typical "we're so weak, we only win because we're so skillfull" talk thieves love to spew.

    The degenerate

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    It's a matter of perspective.
    If you take into account thieves regularly suggest stuff as an F skill that does shortbow 5, dd dodge costing 15 endurance, backstab insta kill, death blossom marking a target and teleporting to the target at will with 10000 range, rifle 2000 range on deadeye, etc, yes they're really really weak.
    On the other hand if you have a minor clue about balance they're not weak.

    Also laughing at worst 1v1 build in existence. Typical "we're so weak, we only win because we're so skillfull" talk thieves love to spew.

    That would imply that a good thief goes for 1v1s. You dont. There is a reason why the first thing new thieves learn is "avoid even fights". Thieves win because points > kills, and decapping does a lot to give your team points.

    But, if youre so sure that thieves are good at 1v1s, then surely you would be willing to play thief in ranked without shortbow, yes? Or make it even more interesting. No shortbow, no Daredevil. Just core SD with whatever alternative weaponset you want. Or would that be when you admit that thief in fact cannot 1v1 reasonably?

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    It's a matter of perspective.
    If you take into account thieves regularly suggest stuff as an F skill that does shortbow 5, dd dodge costing 15 endurance, backstab insta kill, death blossom marking a target and teleporting to the target at will with 10000 range, rifle 2000 range on deadeye, etc, yes they're really really weak.
    On the other hand if you have a minor clue about balance they're not weak.

    Also laughing at worst 1v1 build in existence. Typical "we're so weak, we only win because we're so skillfull" talk thieves love to spew.

    That would imply that a good thief goes for 1v1s. You dont. There is a reason why the first thing new thieves learn is "avoid even fights". Thieves win because points > kills, and decapping does a lot to give your team points.

    But, if youre so sure that thieves are good at 1v1s, then surely you would be willing to play thief in ranked without shortbow, yes? Or make it even more interesting. No shortbow, no Daredevil. Just core SD with whatever alternative weaponset you want. Or would that be when you admit that thief in fact cannot 1v1 reasonably?

    There are more +1 builds in game, thieves just do better than those.
    There are some builds that are countered by thieves, so no, you're not the weakest build in existence.
    Also ds is one of the most broken stuff in game.

    The degenerate

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    Wait for a 6months or 1-2 years until they nerf it. If any class that overperform is not thief its fine (even if thief is underperforming they must be nerfed to be unplayble)

    FTFY. This has been happening to thieves long before mesmer, and is still going.

    I find it so funny that thieves are always complaining about how "bad" and "nerfed" they are yet in the 6 years of GW2, they have been a constant in competitive play, and are found in all ranks, always have had at least 1 viable build and despite multiple nerfs, they keep finding strong meta builds:

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_Marauder_S/D

    You can like or dislike this website all you want, but they only record the builds played by people in AT and ranked matches, it is peer reviewed and up to voting. They are on the highest tier (have had builds there for as long as the website has existed).

    But nope, thieves are poor poor creatures who have no viable builds nor role that has remained uncontested, without the unmatched decaping capabilities, one of the strongest 1v1 and +1 build in existence that is the support killer, nope, not at all.
    Like, is anyone fooled by these comments anymore? I understand the complains when it comes from necros, revs and eles at different times, but thieves? Cmon..

    Of course Thief remains Meta. They have Shortbow 5. However, you are critically wrong on one aspect. "One of the strongest 1v1 builds in existence". The correct wording would be "the single weakest 1v1 build in existence". Unless the enemy thief is much better than you are, you should never be losing the 1v1 on any build that wants to 1v1. Hell, even most teamfighting builds that usually struggle in 1v1 still should not lose to thief. The problem with thief is that while it will always be strong, because being able to move around the map twice as fast as any other class, in a gamemode where standing on points is the best thing you can do, is incredibly strong, its arguably not very engaging or satisfying. The class was pitched as the standin for assassin. A rogue class. A class you expect to be very strong in 1v1s in exchange for being very weak in teamfights. Instead, you get sPvPs Janitor. Always neccessary, but I imagine not the job most people find fulfilling.

    Edit: Oh and since I forgot, the reason people complain about thief nerfs, is what they target. Any time a thief build appears, that actually can win some 1v1s, it immideatly gets nerfed. Sometimes even builds that arent even good enough for that randomly get nerfed. Those nerfs obviously do nothing about Thieves meta status because none ever touched shortbow 5, but they make trying to play thief as a dueling class even more pointless.

    Adding to this, you would think the one with the mobility, and the role of being an assassin would not only be responsible for going deep into enemy lines to decap/cap. But also eliminate anyone they find roaming alone, weakened, or far from their group in team fights. But nope, can't do that. Thief can't out trade any reasonable build.

    Mr delusional thief main stop quotting me . Amount of nonsense you spit is so insane that I dont even want to prove you are wrong in every sentence