So the tank/bunker meta is back...

Every game I played today had super tanky scrappers, firebrand bunker, chronomancers and spellbreakers... Nobody was able to kill them and it was super boring...

It's not as boring as the last patch. Better a long battle than a fight with an army of clones. For the sake of battle and there is pvp.

@Maddog.3716 said:It's not as boring as the last patch. Better a long battle than a fight with an army of clones. For the sake of battle and there is pvp.

Well cancer game play, vs boring game play, both leaves players into quitting. So it's not really better.

Remember how ESL was boring with the bunker meta.

@rwolf.9571 said:

@Maddog.3716 said:It's not as boring as the last patch. Better a long battle than a fight with an army of clones. For the sake of battle and there is pvp.

I understand that you learned to kill in a duel zone. I'm sorry, but this isn't just a dueling game. Bunkers and support s not frequent guests in the dueling area. That's why it's hard for local killers to accept it.

@Maddog.3716 said:It's not as boring as the last patch. Better a long battle than a fight with an army of clones. For the sake of battle and there is pvp.

It's more boring in my opinion. Each team only had about 10 kills the entire match.. That's insane... I prefer fast paced stuff instead of long and boring fights where everyone is tanky.

@Sodeni.6041 said:

@Maddog.3716 said:It's not as boring as the last patch. Better a long battle than a fight with an army of clones. For the sake of battle and there is pvp.

I don't. So....

I think we need a middle ground; fights should last no more than 40 seconds, but no less than 10, which is enough time for most people to use heal once and MAYBE have heal ready for a second time, which by that point people should be REALLY low, so it all comes down to who can stop(CC)/diminish(poison) the opponents from applying that last breath of fresh air. It makes you be at the edge of your seat, high tension all the way from the beginning until that last moment, if concentration falters or you outplay them, suddenly you get the upper hand. That time is also around the same time most mid-high power skills come off CD, so the timing is pretty good.

However, as it is right now, we have fights that last less than 10 seconds or more than 40 seconds, either one rotation of spells, or the entire skillset comes off CD and they can just cycle through it over and over again.

I like playing supports, but I would like to see more offensive supports (like staff ele with CC fields, offensive boons, auras and minimal boons) and less sustain supports (large raw healing, protection, rej, aegis, blinds, retaliation), although i just wanna play healers, I think they are not healthy for PvP modes, or at least they havent found a way to balance them properly without nerfing the sustain of the class outside of the support (like they did with eles, they killed their sustain so that their healing support wasnt strong, but now you cant play the class offensively because you have no self sustain or defense of any other kind).

To be honest, bunker matchs are really tactical and fun, even if the end score is 100-20. Even if you lose 500-0, it can still be because opponent outplayed you better.

However, what i'm not a huge fan of is that there are too many " life savers " compared to 5 years ago. Back in time, you had to follow and anticipate enemy moves. Now, you have too many ways of holding 5 seconds until your mates are coming or running away in case of failing, and this is indeed making it a bit less tactical..

UGH....I wish they un-nerfed my BBBB (Bunker Buster Butthead build). during the last Bunker meta in PvP (S1 or 2...i dont remember) I made a scrapper build that rekt bunkers...even 2 at a time on 1 point. It was magnificent. 1 swift nerf bat (gyros lightning field causing a stun when detonated) killed it.

What I wouldn't give to have it back...It would smash any bunker meta....RIP

Honestly, I really like the changes to Scrapper and how it somewhat counters this power burst meta.

Maybe it's just me, but I think Scrapper's is fine overall, but needs some toning down to balance it.

Scrapper's have high sustain and team support with low damage.

Firebrand and a scrapper on 1 team is the only time where you will face a bunker meta style game.

I can tell you this as a Scourge, trying to fight a team with a firebrand and scrapper at mid is impossible and 100% countered.

@Maddog.3716 said:

@rwolf.9571 said:

@Maddog.3716 said:It's not as boring as the last patch. Better a long battle than a fight with an army of clones. For the sake of battle and there is pvp.

Criticizing Scrapper isn't saying there's no room for support/bunker, to a point. Don't be condescending. It's just saying it's a little over the top right now.

@Elrond.9486 said:

@Maddog.3716 said:

@rwolf.9571 said:

@Maddog.3716 said:It's not as boring as the last patch. Better a long battle than a fight with an army of clones. For the sake of battle and there is pvp.

Agree. I didn't say the scrapper was okay. There's no point in expressing ideas. There's no point in being nervous and arguing. Developers still do not listen to us.If you think they're listening. Go to the branch revenant and see how many topics about Renegade and developers make a rework Scrapper.I said that the current situation is better than in the past patch.All only care about the current scrapper and mirage in the past patch. Never except the main rev players will not say in defense of the Renegade. Why should developers listen to one-sided statements in which people are busy only discussing how best it will be for them.

@Sodeni.6041 said:Every game I played today had super tanky scrappers, firebrand bunker, chronomancers and spellbreakers... Nobody was able to kill them and it was super boring...

If you eliminate scrappers, almost everything else remained the same as pre-patch. Scrappers are the problem. FB heal scaling should be nerfed regardless.

I'll take anything over last meta. I am enjoying it a lot more than I thought I would.

I’d rather have a more diverse meta like for example a couple bunker classes with mediocre damage,slow sustain dps’rs,fragile/quick and hit like a truck,all arounder type and mix of range/melee classes where all have their roles. Instead we have sustainy dps’rs with great mobility in the mojority of classes,bunker builds with low dps and fast/fragile hits with wet noodle classes. Seems bout right lol

DELETE ELITES

Bunkers will probably need a shave (Scrapper, FB, etc), if anything. Not gutted, More damage is healthier for the game after all, but at least were not fighting obnoxious evade spamming while attacking with AI classes as much as before anymore.

A meta with both Bunkers and power builds dominant is probably the best meta and is somewhat close to pre-HoT 2015.

I'd rather deal with scrapper than with mirage tbh.

I have to agree with the people that say "I prefer this over the 1-shot meta".Scrapper at least is fair when you take their tankiness-to-damage-ratio into account.A demolisher scrapper can do good dmg while being beefy. Yet they can't infinitely resustain themselves in outnumbered situations.Menders variants are extremely hard to kill (even when outnumbering) but, at best, will only be able to stalemate any other 1v1er. which makes them pretty much useless when they just get outrotated.

Chrono and Soulbeast are far more obnoxious in that regard, simply because they don't have to make these types of trade-offs.

@"Zenix.6198" said:I have to agree with the people that say "I prefer this over the 1-shot meta".Scrapper at least is fair when you take their tankiness-to-damage-ratio into account.A demolisher scrapper can do good dmg while being beefy. Yet they can't infinitely resustain themselves in outnumbered situations.Menders variants are extremely hard to kill (even when outnumbering) but, at best, will only be able to stalemate any other 1v1er. which makes them pretty much useless when they just get outrotated.

Chrono and Soulbeast are far more obnoxious in that regard, simply because they don't have to make these types of trade-offs.

When did we have oneshot meta, do you mean?

People really will never not complain. I mind this meta way less than the cancer that was 4 mirages per game.

Let's count up all the times we've complained and what they were about:

1. "It's a 1-shot meta! Tone down the dmg"
2. "It's a condi meta! Tone down the condi"
3. "It's a bunker meta! Tone down the bunker"
4. "It's a bruiser meta! Tone down the bruiser!"

Just play the game, or if you don't enjoy it, don't play the game.

@"Mbelch.9028" said:People really will never not complain. I mind this meta way less than the cancer that was 4 mirages per game.

Let's count up all the times we've complained and what they were about:

1. "It's a 1-shot meta! Tone down the dmg"
2. "It's a condi meta! Tone down the condi"
3. "It's a bunker meta! Tone down the bunker"
4. "It's a bruiser meta! Tone down the bruiser!"

Just play the game, or if you don't enjoy it, don't play the game.

Absolutely this.

@otto.5684 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:Every game I played today had super tanky scrappers, firebrand bunker, chronomancers and spellbreakers... Nobody was able to kill them and it was super boring...

well, the thing is pretty much most DPS classes prepatch was way too overpowered, especially burst mirages, takes you down with a blink of an eye

Bunker scrapper can be taken down easily with two burst classes by overwhelm the scrapper with so much damage that the scraper cannot react in time

even post patch mirage cloak's nerf havent gone far enough, still can evade while stunned :\

plus, mirage bunkers are way worst than scraper bunker, mirage bunker can output loads of damage while evading most attackswhile scraper bunker can do barely any damage; they can switch to more dps utilities, but they loss more sustain compare to the dps gain

Hahaha! Bring it on then! I love it!

Power era has reigned SUPREME for a long time now. You PKers and DPSers have gotten your way for too long with builds like Holo, Mirage, Deadeye, Weaver & Reaper. How about changing it up? Also, you guys complain but you're not even getting the full bunkers. There's no more cleric or minstrel to contend with. You anti-bunkers GOT what you want. At least with bunker, there's a chance to counter. You don't get that with going against power builds, where you can taken get out in 1-2 hits.

I do you all one further. Instead of getting mad at bunkers, get mad at the POWERCREEP that has come into this game.

@rwolf.9571 said:

@Maddog.3716 said:It's not as boring as the last patch. Better a long battle than a fight with an army of clones. For the sake of battle and there is pvp.

Imho ESL season 1 bunker meta was far more interesting and game-wise better than what we have/had during last months. Up to start of PoF, meta in my opinion was ~balanced, after expansion we got more cancerous builds, then less cancerous, then more etc etc. And as an example, do you remember teams of 4 mirages or sth like that, just because this spec was so balanced ? I do, and as far as i remember there was never such a thing during HoT, max was 2 same classes in one team.

Just my opinion, dont get your feelings be hurt in any way :)