Are people satisfied that WvW has devolved into zerg v zerg fest?

Zergs are the thing to do in WvW but it might be the thing that is destroying the mode.The main issue for me is that you can't counter giant blob of people for that you need a bigger blob and at the end it devolves into a PVE loot train of flipping castles instead of pvp. And another issue is that you dont get any advantage at defending a castle the walls there are a death trap, scourge just put shades on it and you cant step on them. So there isn't much point in defending you just start siege when they take it and you are in when the 5 minutes are up and you flip it. The siege mechanics the walls the doors the useless traps all feel week. The people whine that there is skill lag well the server probably can't handle 500 people on the same small spot spamming AOE people clutter on top of each other, maybe if they had collision 1 space 1 person it would strain the server less. People abandon the mode of boredom cause the zergs ruin it, 49 people follow one dorito to stoke its ego. The whole thing needs rework cause many games at the moment are being developed with the same mode in mind Mount and Blade, Kamelot unchained, Crowfall, Ashes of creation and what ever you could find with google, this could be the next BR craze or just a niche thing but the point is that Guild wars has so much potential to be so much more.

i don't think the issue is that it focuses on zerg v zerg but rather the state of zerg v zerg

also can ppl stop with the BR meme, it's gotten old long ago

I have tried to champion the ability to better defend structures against enemy invaders. Unfortunately I get the, "If you don't have enough people to defend it, you deserve to lose it." responses back every time. I hate the nerf to Arrow Carts that they did. I hate that you can't stand on the walls to try to defend the walls. The only thing you can do is either let them take it, or suicide run and try to take out their siege. Either way they are going to take it from you now unless you can manage to get a bigger blob than them to steamroll over them.

My only gripe when it comes to zergs and blobs is that not everybody is welcome in them. I feel that Anet should make specializations for the three specs you can choose from your class to be a designated zerg spec, a designated roamer spec, and a versatile utility spec. I don't feel that people should be excluded from a squad based on the class that they choose to play that is their favorite.

I have also said that I think they need to start using diminishing returns on Boons, Corrupts, and AoE's. People stack so much of that stuff on themselves or the enemies that it's just becoming overkill now. Basically whoever can stack the most wins. If they make it so that after say 5 stacks each stack after that returns less and less advantage then people will start including other classes in zergs that can help rather than just sticking with 3 classes only.

Anyways, my two coppers. I'm sure I'll get people responding to my comments about how stupid they are and that I should lrn2ply. Whatever.

This game is terrible in every mode. I haven't logged in for ~6 months, and cant even make myself play it anymore.

I recall people being concerned with it devolving into zerg vs zerg back in say 2015...but these days most folks just accept it as the way things are. no use being concerned over something that won't change.

@"Vancho.8750" said:Zergs are the thing to do in WvW but it might be the thing that is destroying the mode.The main issue for me is that you can't counter giant blob of people for that you need a bigger blob and at the end it devolves into a PVE loot train of flipping castles instead of pvp. And another issue is that you dont get any advantage at defending a castle the walls there are a death trap, scourge just put shades on it and you cant step on them. So there isn't much point in defending you just start siege when they take it and you are in when the 5 minutes are up and you flip it. The siege mechanics the walls the doors the useless traps all feel week. The people whine that there is skill lag well the server probably can't handle 500 people on the same small spot spamming AOE people clutter on top of each other, maybe if they had collision 1 space 1 person it would strain the server less. People abandon the mode of boredom cause the zergs ruin it, 49 people follow one dorito to stoke its ego. The whole thing needs rework cause many games at the moment are being developed with the same mode in mind Mount and Blade, Kamelot unchained, Crowfall, Ashes of creation and what ever you could find with google, this could be the next BR craze or just a niche thing but the point is that Guild wars has so much potential to be so much more.

This mode was primarily designed for mass player combat, so no, massive amounts of players are not "destroying the mode".

This is a personal YOU issue, nothing more... "The main issue for me is that you can't counter giant blob of people for that you need a bigger blob". Again, this mode was mainly designed for "giant blob".

Fights happen all the time, so this is not true... "at the end it devolves into a PVE loot train of flipping castles instead of pvp.".

Yes there are issues with defending against larger numbers, but that why you counter with numbers, not just siege.

Yes, there is lag, and needs to be addressed because it makes playing unfun.

This is not true... "People abandon the mode of boredom cause the zergs ruin it"... People abandon wvw based off of the following...

• Lag
• Lack of regular, and major, updates to the mode.
• Lack of meaningful profession improvements to make gameplay better for pvp play.
• Rewards are super far behind the rest of the game.
• Uneven matches. No, there will never be perfect balance when you are dependent on humans to log-in and play, but World Restructuring should help some.
• The mode, maps, limited pool of usable profession builds, tactics, fights... basically everything surrounding wvw is overly repetitive, and there is only so much repetitiveness players can handle.

IMO, Anet has made the best "feeling" combat system of any game, in addition to having some of the best open world gameplay designs across the entire game.. So yes, wvw in GW2 "has so much potential to be so much more.". Hopefully the devs can see the players are really wanting "so much more" out of this RvR mode, and that it's worth to invest resources to make wvw "so much more".

@Fallesafe.5932 said:This game is terrible in every mode. I haven't logged in for ~6 months, and cant even make myself play it anymore.

How can you know about the state of the game?

@"oOStaticOo.9467" said:I have tried to champion the ability to better defend structures against enemy invaders. Unfortunately I get the, "If you don't have enough people to defend it, you deserve to lose it." responses back every time. I hate the nerf to Arrow Carts that they did. I hate that you can't stand on the walls to try to defend the walls. The only thing you can do is either let them take it, or suicide run and try to take out their siege. Either way they are going to take it from you now unless you can manage to get a bigger blob than them to steamroll over them.

My only gripe when it comes to zergs and blobs is that not everybody is welcome in them. I feel that Anet should make specializations for the three specs you can choose from your class to be a designated zerg spec, a designated roamer spec, and a versatile utility spec. I don't feel that people should be excluded from a squad based on the class that they choose to play that is their favorite.

I have also said that I think they need to start using diminishing returns on Boons, Corrupts, and AoE's. People stack so much of that stuff on themselves or the enemies that it's just becoming overkill now. Basically whoever can stack the most wins. If they make it so that after say 5 stacks each stack after that returns less and less advantage then people will start including other classes in zergs that can help rather than just sticking with 3 classes only.

Anyways, my two coppers. I'm sure I'll get people responding to my comments about how stupid they are and that I should lrn2ply. Whatever.

No, you are 100% right. Defense is far far harder than attacking, which is kitten-backwards from the way that fortifications and siege worked in real life. While this is just a game, trying to defend from the wall should not be a death sentence. It's like no one has heard of crenelations and battlements and what they are for over at ANet. But until there is better balance, defense will always be the losers game, and the warclaw has just helped to turn WvW into the next gen of EotM Karma Train.

All the elephants that no one wants to talk about needs to be added to the mode to actually make it a World PvP/GvG mode that will never happen;

1) Walls need to make you CC immune and reduce damage by 50-90% based on tier of structure. Don't tell me they can't, Warclaw.2) AoE and boonshare need to cap at 3 in WvW.2.5) On side note for whole game, boons and condi applicaiton needs to be toned down, period, not only for PvP modes but for the health of end-game content. Alacrity and Quickness were bad ideas, the endgame should not need to be balanced assuming near 100% uptime of these broken affects.3) To make people think about siege spam, it needs to stop being coded to the genetics of the worlds. If you leave it out, it can be used against you. Maybe add a skill to each to self destruct. (For that matter, now that we're stuck with mounts, the Warclaw should be able to tow seige around instead of that useless chain pull skill)4) As much as 'veterans' push back, PvP like Amulets need to come to WvW. However, they need to have one to select for weapon stats, armor stats, and trinket stats, so we can still mix and match, and it needs to include all stat types. Also needs to still let infusion slots count for those that have Ascended and Legendary.

"But what about mah prestige! I earned those armors and weapons!Yes you did, and you get the real endgame of GW2 out of it, the skins that add more particle effects and make WvW lag just a little more. Congrats.5) EotM needs to stop being treated like the Hall of Forgotton toys and actually go back to being USED TO TEST NEW WVW IDEAS. BOth Gliding and the Warclaw should be enabled there, and frankly both should have been tested there before coming to core WvW maps. For that matter, let Pips happen there and all dailes be possible (like supply depots counting as camps. Let PvE casuals (or even us regulars on a time constraint) pop in there to finish a daily as opposed to maybe taking a regular slot up.6) To encourage people to learn to play and to build for a bit more defense, if killed in any map but your home BL you can't re-spawn there for 5-10 minutes. You have to go home. Would also encourage people to defend home instead of zerg only on EBG.7) If Gliding and Mounts were added to WvW to try and encourage F2P to buy the expacs, well then the base first rank of each mastery needs to be accessible without the XPacs. The rest of the mastery should be inaccessible until they own the relevant XPac though. But that at least lets them preview it and keeps the F2P folks in WvW from holding up their team quite as much.8) The big one - Delete SMC. Too many commanders think that having that dumb castle is the win button. Just take it out, and replace it with that featureless flat plain. If all these 'fight' guilds that insist on holding it "to draw the fight" still want their fights, well, they can meet in the spot and get right to their fights without that messy waiting on siege.Narrator: They won't, it's not about fights, it's about PPT except these people can't math as SMC alone isn't even half a home BL.9) And agree with @MUDse.7623, the matches need to be less than a whole week. If they don't want to change up how often they change the matchups, then maybe the week is 7 24-hour matches, with the 'winner' being the best of 7. Might actually work better with the 1 up 1 down method as well.

So, yeah, all the elephants that will never get addressed, which will keep the mode slowly dying, is why people in my guild keep leaving the mode (or game) and I keep playing less and less...

@Batdogi.7142 said:I recall people being concerned with it devolving into zerg vs zerg back in say 2015...but these days most folks just accept it as the way things are. no use being concerned over something that won't change.

They were right. And not only did it devolve into more Zerg v Zerg, those have devolved into 3 classes only or kick.

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:1) Walls need to make you CC immune and reduce damage by 50-90% based on tier of structure. Don't tell me they can't, Warclaw.... so you want to mount a wall?

Essentially. I am just saying the tech is there so that defenders can fire down and not just get deleted immediately.

People want less arrow carts they say, well, then defending from on the walls needs to not be a guaranteed death. That's why we use arrow carts to defend as they get OVER the walls.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:1) Walls need to make you CC immune and reduce damage by 50-90% based on tier of structure. Don't tell me they can't, Warclaw.... so you want to mount a wall?

They mean if u can immune a mount u can immune a wall Doh!

Don't need a bigger blob to counter a blob. You do need SOME people tho.. and some skill players.

Like right now with the PvE people joining in I see groups doing 10 vs 30 and winning. Don't be fooled by your personal experience a lot of it depends on the avg of your players.

@"Fallesafe.5932" said:This game is terrible in every mode. I haven't logged in for ~6 months, and cant even make myself play it anymore.

Why are you posting on the forums of a game that shouldn't concern you whatsoever anymore?

Also saying it devolved into a zergfest like it ever was anything else is just lol

What IS WvW to you, OP? 15v30 fights that you now "can't win anymore" as many others have claimed? Roaming? Genuine question. Because zerg v zerg has always been part of this and that didn't change at all.

Ok the why not have multiple 15 to 20 man squads battling over the whole map instead of the mega blob vs mega blob server crash galore on 3 meters of dirt.

I was thinking about the masteries what if they weren't play a lot and get them all but a special traitlines for WvW on top of you class, so you get to be builder, sieger, grunt(zergling), scout/spy ( roamer) for one to don't muck up the abilities for the rest of the game example WoD it became completely useless for PVE or the Scourge shades which are bad if they don't push the numbers in PVE but are the hell for pvp modes. So instead of killing that dolyak who somehow knows the way on his gps you kill the patrol with the caravan and steal the doly, you don't flip camps but you pillage it to gain its resource and stop its help to the castle or you are Bob the builder and you build some defenses around the camp.

@Vancho.8750 said:Ok the why not have multiple 15 to 20 man squads battling over the whole map instead of the mega blob vs mega blob server crash galore on 3 meters of dirt.

there is no incentive to play to win the match. if there was, then monoblob wouldnt be the most efficient thing and people might also stop having this vulnerability called commander they use to position.(right now to avoid improving, they just agree not to snipe the commander). we need balanced matches and rewards for winning instead of 'participating' for that to happen, but it is unlikely to happen as long as the match remains at 168 hours.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Ok the why not have multiple 15 to 20 man squads battling over the whole map instead of the mega blob vs mega blob server crash galore on 3 meters of dirt.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Ok the why not have multiple 15 to 20 man squads battling over the whole map instead of the mega blob vs mega blob server crash galore on 3 meters of dirt.

Also true, adding to my list above.

@displayname.8315 said:Don't need a bigger blob to counter a blob. You do need SOME people tho.. and some skill players.

Like right now with the PvE people joining in I see groups doing 10 vs 30 and winning. Don't be fooled by your personal experience a lot of it depends on the avg of your players.

Is true story.

If you can't get any kills this week, I don't know what to say. Probably try an easier game.

this is a massive combat gamemode. I don't mind a massive blob to fight either.

I don't know, these days I see more and more smaller groups easily dismantling big blobs and leaving a trail of bodies in their wake.

Its part of a much bigger picture in my opinion. The entire game is an illustration of what untapped potential looks like. There was a podcast by a big GW2 streamer recently who made the point that Anet really doesnt know what they have in this game. Why it struggles to compete with the absolute garbage competition in this market is beyond me considering its foundation is spectacular. But they just continue coming out with unwanted changes, pushing the living story, and completely ignore their player base when it comes to feedback. Give the raiders more raids, give the casuals more open world metas, , give the PvPers regular balance and new maps/tournaments, and give us a reason to WvW. By all accounts this game should be outselling every other MMO on the market, especially with how frustrated people are with WoW, but games like Black Desert and ESO just show up and mean business when its time while Anet continues to let their fans down at every update. Maybe its beyond Anets control...maybe NCSoft is pulling the strings but I'd bet the problem is lack of vision within the company coming from the top. They dont know where they are, they dont know where they are going, and they have a mess of unfinished, forgotten features that people once loved and actually sold their game for them that have been left to rot.

The game is free, and it has a lot of great initial first impression, but if it cant hold on to players long term its never going to be the Guild Wars it could have been.

Negative AoE effects should be worthless within a Keep/Tower etc. This would help to inhibit Red-Circles-Of-Death optimisations, which leads to Pacman gameplay. And to really mix it up to prevent narrow optimisation either health or toughness or both should increment with each wxp gained in the session for the same map.

un nerf the aoe cap!for the zerg!

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Ok the why not have multiple 15 to 20 man squads battling over the whole map instead of the mega blob vs mega blob server crash galore on 3 meters of dirt.

It might be harder to reward winners when that could mean giving a benefit to the whole server (including those who didn't participate).

maybe participation rewards could be boosted based on the global territory owned across the four maps, so having 100% of all maps would translate to 100% participation / pip progress rewards with every tick (that's obviously the maximum). That would encourage groups to keep as much territory as possible at all possible times.