Warclaw has improved the Quality of Roaming — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Warclaw has improved the Quality of Roaming

EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited March 11, 2019 in WvW

What does roaming mean to you?

  • Scouting Keeps and Towers?
  • Flipping and Defending Supply camps?
  • Shadowing enemy Zergs?
  • Walking or killing Dolyaks?
  • Refreshing Siege?
  • Repairing walls and gates?
  • Ninja-ing enemy Towers and Keeps?
  • Picking on the tails of enemy Zergs?
  • Tapping Keeps to contest Waypoints?
  • Trolling?
  • +1 a fight?
  • More diverse builds because MS traits/runes are now not mandatory?
  • Testing your skills against other Roamers who want to fight?
  • Stomping Zerglings who don't want to fight?

All of this has been improved with the Warclaw!
Be it the increased movement, to the extra HP, or the anti-downstate.
Increased efficiency in everything!
All improved!

Except the last one.
You can't catch and stomp on Zerglings who don't want to fight that easily anymore!
And I say that is a GOOD thing!

Where is the honor in stomping a Zergling who isn't able to fight back!?
Where is the glory in jumping on someone who isn't built for roaming!?
Pick on someone your size!

Gone are the days when roamers get to gank Zerglings easily and chest thump and howl in victory.
The quantity of cheap easy ganks has decreased but the quality of roaming overall has improved!

3 cheers for Warclaw!
A toast to Warclaw!

In the distance, a Necro Zergling can be seen riding on a big cat and running off into the sunset howling in glee as a few enemy roamers chase futilely behind.

A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

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Comments

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    Well, the Warclaw deserves more than one discussion. It's that good...

    Not just roaming, it makes keeping up with the zerg easier. Now everyone in the zerg can stay close to the Pin, regardless of their classes. I like that <3

  • HazyDaisy.4107HazyDaisy.4107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This week and probably for the next few weeks everyone's roles have kind of changed.

    As far as improving roaming, eh depends on the size of your roaming group. It's defiantly easier to get to the warg though, of course it's dead by the time you get there.

    [HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination - Sorrows Furnace

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    And also using a necro zergling as a base for how roaming has changed is like saying Fallout 76 is the best MMO ever and then suddenly be impressed by other games.

    You almost owed me a new keyboard on that one. Nearly spit out my morning coffee.

    Leader of PvE/WvW Havoc Guild - Tyrian Adventure Corporation [TACO] - Kaineng since the start, and till KN is no more.

    Do not fear simplification of the game, there is elegance in simplicity that allows more time for playing and less time building.

  • Raap.9065Raap.9065 Member
    edited March 11, 2019

    Just my personal thoughts as a dirty casual checking out WvW again after a long time; I see both the benefits and the negatives of the WvW mount, it seems to be more of an addition aimed at the casual WvW player, and act as a possible blob-catch-up mechanic as well (which is where most casual WvW players are). More experienced blobs mostly do not use the mount in fights in favor of being more capable of responding to what other blobs are doing. But here are my personal issues, dirty casual point of view:

    • I do find it weird why they decided to gate it behind a ~4-6h reward track that forces new players to frustratingly follow a blob on foot and get killed for falling behind over and over again. If WvW was frustrating to some people before, this process only made this worse. Not having a mount in WvW right now, is a serious mobility disadvantage. I get that the collection achievement is a way to introduce PvE players to a few WvW mechanics, but that reward track does not need to be the same time-length as regular reward tracks for them to learn how this works, it can do that job even at 25% the current participation requirement.
    • A lot of classes end up having to unload their main ability salvo on mounted players just to dismount them, only for the real fight to begin there and then, but the player whom you just dismounted will still have all ability cooldowns available, creating an unfair advantage. Either mounts need to use player health pools - meaning being downed from a mount would down the player as well - or the stun from being dismounted by health bar depletion needs to be longer and uninterruptible.
    • Some special CC types that logically make sense that they should dismount a player, should... Dismount a player. The main CC type that comes to mind here is the "Pull" type, as you logically expect that to pull a driver off his mount. Other CC types that should apply for this effect are "Push", Immobilize, Stun, and Fear. Conditions such as Slow, Chilled or Crippled should also affect mount movement speed. Torment and Weakness should be especially effective against mounts as niche conditions.
    • Mount ability #3, the chains on gates, lacks a purpose beyond targeting gates. My suggestion is that while targeting a mounted player (600 range), you throw those chains at that mounted player to act like a "Pull" CC - successfully doing so would dismount that player and apply a 2 second stun (enough time for the other player to also dismount and initiate a fair fight).
  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Don't you share the same hp pool as golems? Shame they can't do the same to mounts

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    Don't you share the same hp pool as golems? Shame they can't do the same to mounts

    You dont though.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    Don't you share the same hp pool as golems? Shame they can't do the same to mounts

    You dont though.

    That's weird. Got ganked by 2 mesmers on my warrior once, got to below half health so I got out and was at the same health as what golem was. (Very rarely do I use golems)

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Henry.5713 said:
    In short, mounts clearly favour one side of the argument.

    Of course it does, but when you favour one side of the argument when previously the other side was being favoured, you hit.......balance.

    Speaking in generalities, zerg (DPS) players are geared for max damage, while support players max healing/ boon uptime and survivability. This includes gear, traits, utilities, runes and sigils. Roamers for the most part choose more defensive choices, including mobility, while some can get away with running full glass with the strategy of 'blow up your enemy before they can sneeze you to death'.

    Roamers are skilled at 1v1 and 1vX.
    Zerg players are skilled at positioning/movement and bomb placement / support rotations.

    There is crossover of course, as some players are skilled at both (and skill actually does matter in WvW), and a full zerk zerg player can certainly win a 1v1 against a roamer.

    But again generally speaking, up until now, Roamers had all the advantages for a 1v1:
    Mobility (including stealth) allowed them to control whether a fight would take place, and allowed them to disengage.
    Build/gear gave them an advantage in 1v1

    Mounts change that, because now zerg players have greater mobility allowing them to escape an unwanted/unfavourable 1v1 encounter.

    So roamers are basically upset that things are now balanced, and no longer tilted their way? You'll find my sympathy card in your in-game mailbox.

    I do acknowledge that in enemy territory the mount screws over a roamer, because it moves slower than their opponent's mounts, and their own mobility abilities cannot overcome the speed difference a player gets from mounting in friendly territory. I do maintain though that a properly led zerg isn't going to squirrel after 1 roaming player trying to evade them, unless they are acting as a scout, in which case fair game.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    Don't you share the same hp pool as golems? Shame they can't do the same to mounts

    You dont though.

    That's weird. Got ganked by 2 mesmers on my warrior once, got to below half health so I got out and was at the same health as what golem was. (Very rarely do I use golems)

    Did you have the full mastery for the golem at the time?

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    Don't you share the same hp pool as golems? Shame they can't do the same to mounts

    You dont though.

    That's weird. Got ganked by 2 mesmers on my warrior once, got to below half health so I got out and was at the same health as what golem was. (Very rarely do I use golems)

    Did you have the full mastery for the golem at the time?

    I am mithral recruit.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    Don't you share the same hp pool as golems? Shame they can't do the same to mounts

    You dont though.

    That's weird. Got ganked by 2 mesmers on my warrior once, got to below half health so I got out and was at the same health as what golem was. (Very rarely do I use golems)

    Did you have the full mastery for the golem at the time?

    I am mithral recruit.

    Ah, I'm just guessing, because I know some high ranked people who don't put all their points in sometimes.

  • UmbraNoctis.1907UmbraNoctis.1907 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    Can't mount while in combat. Zerglings don't have to be unmounted outside of their zerg.
    I got to choose to attack lonely players on zerg builds. They got to choose to run arround alone with builds not suited for running arround alone.

    And again, why is it YOU who gets to decide, what is "fair game" and what not?

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    All things considered, mounts have done more good than harm.

    Most of they key points that needed to be addressed such as speed were addressed, and the remaining ones like sneaky exploits and non-pof players being left behind should be taken care of in successive updates.

    Now, what we need to favor roaming is more and better reasons to keep players spread all over the map. and defending all locations, not only key locations easily defendable by making time before the zerg arrives.
    People leave supply lines undefended too often, because it's more fun and profitable to follow the tag, and if you stick around chances are nobody may come along or if someone comes you'll be outnumbered.

    A roamer shouldn't spend most of their time flipping camps. There should be decent reasons for players to stick around a supply line from camps to keeps and towers without losing their participation if no one comes along, so when someone does come along, there's someone already there, and we get fights.
    If people get bored or lose participation, they'll leave, and if no one is there, anyone who comes along will only have to face NPCs. And the amount of overall PvP in the mode decreases or gets focused mostly on zerg fights.
    Have you ever tried escorting dolyaks? Mindbogglingly boring if no players come along to fight you.

    That isn't really a problem of the warclaw, but an inherent problem with the game mode that the warclaw has made more patent.

    One possible way to address that would be a 4th faction. This faction would be mostly compromised of NPCs (aetherblades most likely) and players who choose to enlist as 'mercenaries' for the 4th faction instead going to the Edge of the Mists when all of their maps are full. This 4th faction would attempt to take over anything the other 3 factions leave undefended for too long, turning the map back to gray. NPCs in this faction would teleport away when two or more factions collide, to void disturbing fights between players. So if they are trying to take over a green tower and blue comes along, as soon as they are attacked a bit by both teams, they'd run away leaving behind only a green vs blue fight.
    Players enlisted as mercenaries would get bounties telling them what they should take (e.g.: "Take Ascension Bay"), but they can still choose what to take over. Players would never be sent to fight within their current matchup or even tier, maybe not even be able to choose where their mercenary squad or party gets sent to, to reduce possible shenanigans.
    With something like that in place, players who choose to stick around would have regular fights either against NPCs or players, keeping them around different locations, and so when enemies come, it'll be more likely that there's someone already there, thus spreading people and increasing the frequency of smaller scale fights.

    I'd be even better if each supply line was a meta-event on itself, and players who actively defend the supply line would be rewarded in kind at every tick and at the end of a skirmishm, and since supply lines overlap, more active play, patrolling a larger area and successfully taking and defending objectives gets more rewarding, even more so when fighting players.

    And yes, I'm aware that this is mostly "getting more PvP by having more PvE", but as counter-intuitive as it may seem, if you think about it, it would work if done right.
    But it can only be added in a particular way that would promore more smaller scale fights and avoid tempting players into focusing their attention on NPCs.
    The 'extra PvE' has to be scattered and in small scale, and disappear when actual PvP starts, and it has to encourage patrolling around. The goal should be getting people to stick around a bit longer instead running around playing magical chairs, so they have to face other players, not letting them sit by a camp and wait their ticks go up.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

    I got to choose to attack lonely players on zerg builds. They got to choose to run arround alone with builds not suited for running arround alone.

    And again, why is it YOU who gets to decide, what is "fair game" and what not?

    Er, no. Taking a roaming build into a zerg puts your team at a disadvantage, because while your survivability goes up, your spike damage does not. Zerg players run zerg builds because that is what is needed. An Elementalist has a very different build for roaming than they do for playing in a zerg.

    To answer your 2nd question, see again you're just not seeing it.

    Before the patch the ROAMER was the only one who had a choice. Now with the mount, both the roamer and the zerg player are given equal choice to either engage or avoid contact. Balanced.

    You can no longer gank people that are ill geared/built to fight you anymore, and that makes you upset, because best you'll get now is a fair fight against another roamer, where skill will be the most determining factor for victory. That this upsets you speaks volumes.

    In the end it was ANETs decision, it's done, and I'm done talking about it because it evened the playing field, which is better for everyone. That people will be upset that they lost an advantage they used to have is understandable, but I suspect a low turn out for the pity party; most players I know have no issue with solo roamers, but all despised gankers who would attack from ambush, but if things didn't go their way, scampered off to safety or to reset, rather than stay and fight. So skilled lol. GG.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I roam because I like to play with things like

    • projectiles - you literally cannot use these in zerg fights because a few players cycling bubbles nullify ALL projectiles for EVERYONE. You just cannot use projectiles (unless they're unblockable) in organized zerg fighting. They still work in small fights though.
    • conditions - same idea - the amount of cleanse in the game was never reduced back when the great condi nerf patch hit. condi has struggled to keep up ever since. You've got supports cleansing condi from 5 players around them every few seconds. It means you're putting out maybe 1/10th of the damage you'd normally deal.
    • single-target skills - these are a liability in group play too - if you have a single target attack that hits 1 player, you are "wasting" your attack in a zerg when you could be attacking 5 players.

    now .. if you can't force a fight in small engagements, what is even the point of having these skills in WvW?

  • These discussions really show just how many "roamers" spend all their time picking soft targets with no real challenge. Or used to.

    I know most of the real talent left the game long ago but this is just sad.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @displayname.8315 said:
    These discussions really show just how many "roamers" spend all their time picking soft targets with no real challenge. Or used to.

    I know most of the real talent left the game long ago but this is just sad.

    Uh. No. First thing I do when I get in WvW is go run toward the enemy's home camps, flip them, then defend them against more and more enemies until I'm eventually overwhelmed.

    I'm fighting usually 1v2, sometimes 1v3 or 1v4.

    It beats sitting in a blob pressing 1.

  • @coro.3176 said:

    @displayname.8315 said:
    These discussions really show just how many "roamers" spend all their time picking soft targets with no real challenge. Or used to.

    I know most of the real talent left the game long ago but this is just sad.

    Uh. No. First thing I do when I get in WvW is go run toward the enemy's home camps, flip them, then defend them against more and more enemies until I'm eventually overwhelmed.

    I'm fighting usually 1v2, sometimes 1v3 or 1v4.

    It beats sitting in a blob pressing 1.

    Nice. Getting fights, making a difference on the map. Not greifing or BM'ing. Need more roaming like this to come back. One of the last of a dying breed.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    In short, mounts clearly favour one side of the argument.

    Of course it does, but when you favour one side of the argument when previously the other side was being favoured, you hit.......balance.

    Balance would mean mounts come with a downside to everyone, including those who run as a part of a zerg. Which isn't the case at all. Neither do I consider strong ganking builds being able to kill off a zerg player an imbalance. I understand people are upset when they get ganked, but come on.
    Why should I blame a ganker for picking off solo zerglings while those blobs pick on smaller groups or solo targets more often than not.
    Seems a little silly to me. Hence my previous remark about the silliness of pointing fingers.

    Back to the topic then. The former more balanced state meant zerglings were good as a part of a blob, while roamers were strong solo or in small groups which happened include having higher mobility than almost everyone else. A mobility that was needed to stay alive against far larger groups as well as to be able to pick off those who usually hide behind said groups. Thus a harsh increase in the base speed of all builds clearly favours one side over the other.
    The other rather broken aspects of the mount have already been looked at which means any gankers or roamers will continue to be bad at running as a part of a blob. That's how it should be. They will not have that huge upside thanks to the mount that allows them to do something they weren't able to do before. Unlike zerglings who are now able to move at a speed they could have never reached without making sacrafices and compromises within their builds. Speed that gives them an advantage that is not mirriored by any advantages to the other side.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • As a solo roamer and ganker-to-charge-bloodlust-sigil, I like the Warclaw.

    I've changed my build, I don't need all the mobility, I need to deliver a big burst to dismount, then sustain until CD, and then it's a duel. I get to try more builds now. I can adjust my build before fights. I actually enjoy the 'circling' before a fight, it's games imitating (animal) life. Those without Warclaw are the softest targets, so it's almost too easy.

    I love being able to escape and even run through the middle of a zerg. If someone really doesn't want to fight me, they can usually run away. I get it. I gank to build bloodlust, otherwise it's a waste of time. And especially w/ warclaws on the prowl, you don't want to waste time dismounted...

    That's one thing I don't like: I don't take as many sentries and camps. The price of dismounting is not worth it if you suspect adds. I used to be able to get away, now I can't. So in that regard, the actual function of roaming has diminished, but choosing 1vX fights just got easier <3 .

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    @Opal.9324 said:
    Where is the honor in a mounted zerg running down a solo roamer who either doesn't have a mount yet or is stuck in combat?
    Pick on someone your size!

    A roamer on an mount in his own territory can escape from the Zerg

  • Duckota.4769Duckota.4769 Member ✭✭✭

    @displayname.8315 said:
    These discussions really show just how many "roamers" spend all their time picking soft targets with no real challenge. Or used to.

    I know most of the real talent left the game long ago but this is just sad.

    This discussion was made by a soft target pretending to be a roamer... so.... there is that.

  • @Opal.9324 said:
    Where is the honor in a mounted zerg running down a solo roamer who either doesn't have a mount yet or is stuck in combat?
    Pick on someone your size!

    Never expect honor from your enemies. There are a few that live in the Spirit of honorable fights, but only few do. Aside from that, if you are in enemy territory, you are basically an "invader" and Need to be eliminated. And if you are in your own territory without Mount, the enemy zerg is the invader, the "bad guys", meaning to kill anyone.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    Disagree.

    None of what you call improvements are such in my opinion. The reduction of fun in the game mode means less play time in wvw and the game overall (for me). Less play time means less money spent.

    BTW, if you do not look down on zerglings then how do you justify your attitude toward them here?

  • daydreamer.3092daydreamer.3092 Member ✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    Not roaming:
    Scouting Keeps and Towers?
    Refreshing Siege?
    Repairing walls and gates?
    Ninja-ing enemy Towers and Keeps?
    +1 a fight?

    Random Tasks, if there are no real roaming things to do:
    Walking or killing Dolyaks?
    Shadowing enemy Zergs?
    Tapping Keeps to contest Waypoints?

    Tasks of Roaming imo:
    Flipping and Defending Supply camps?
    -> this is annoying with two ppl riding mouts, who rotate to contest the circle. annoying is a very friendly description to this
    Picking on the tails of enemy Zergs?
    -> is more annoying too, because you have to be unmounted to do this and zerglings will turn around and chase you with their mounts, this will promote
    invisibility even more

    More diverse builds because MS traits/runes are now not mandatory?
    - is will be less diverse, because ppl can now skip this decision (some didnt use them, some did)

    Stomping Zerglings who don't want to fight?
    - will be harder
    Testing your skills against other Roamers who want to fight?
    - nothing changed here

    Trolling?
    mounts are great for this task

  • @ventusthunder.5067 said:
    People act like roamers are actually what's wrong with this gamemode. It is perfectly fair, reasonable, and has been in the game since launch that a small-scale built player could take down a zergling easily.

    If you work off that assumption then some of the pro-gank arguments are true. In my experience a good player with a more traditional WvW build can do well enough, or can get away with ease, or can outplay sometimes.

    Most of the people who go down are newbs. Boring for both parties involved. Guys need to pay attention to rank. If I see a no-rank spamming 1 and moving terribly I let them go. I see others doing the same in fights sometimes.

    But whatever if you want to be mean to the newbs its a sandbox mode after all.

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:

    @Opal.9324 said:
    Where is the honor in a mounted zerg running down a solo roamer who either doesn't have a mount yet or is stuck in combat?
    Pick on someone your size!

    A roamer on an mount in his own territory can escape from the Zerg

    Didn't know you could mount up if you didnt own one or were stuck in combat, would you mind posting a video showing me how to do so?

    Than u may wanna get that expansion ur complain is like u can’t be top wvw because u don’t own Firebrand or Scourge. This is an Mount topic not I don’t own the xpact what u complain next u can’t follow the commander bcs u cannot glide ?

    Buy the x pact it’s not that expensive and ur mount problem is solved

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