My my main since PoF release is warrior I have even received recently my 1 year birthday gift on her. BUT! recently i was playing some other classes.. guardian, deadeye, revenant, My vanilla main ranger etc.. and also mesmer just lvl 1 in lobby for pvp.

And i learned this:

Now mostly from playing guardian i realized mesmer aren't that hard to kill.. in case that you have aoe skills teleport you can melt them up with with clones pretty quickly just by pushing two buttons. You can start with one hand sword to lure tham out of CD a bit and than burst by swap to GS. it really simple tactic and its works.you can also use blocks/aegis to avoid some deadly attacks without precisely timing.. look aegis boon or one-hard sword shield. Its just stay for quite time. not like counter witch require perfect timing and you can't do that before you get some adrenaline... so you can't use it against initial stealth->insta delete combo.

But let's begin from scratch.

if you fight mesmer you have to deal with:1) detargeting2) high mobility3) immune states4) and block insane burst dmg that coming to you all time with interrupts/dazes.

And there is how warrior have to fight:

keep target at 180/melee range with slow animation skills.keep target locked... you can't waste burst skills. you dagger skills must hit you shield super slow stun must land (btw it's ridiculous how is shield bash slow.).. you can't just aoe or auto target ON because of dash gs5 skill that require detargeting and it would be impossible to use it otherwise.mesmer is practically untouchable until you successfully land CC on them so you can use GS for some burst dmg.. Because dagger damage is nothing..seriously nothing! counter damage = nothing at all. These are only tools that help you to lock target/survive for GS swap. its shame that for example warrior's offhand dagger is so trash.. it could be great aoe dmg weapon. there is also projectile reflect on that dagger aoe skill by default i wish i could its it as shield alternative. but it's trash damage on high cd.. useless really.Even if you somehow finally get them lockdown they can use dodge and becomes immune while CCed and you are kitty Up. Completely!On other hand mesmer can randomly run around you and spam kitty amount of condition and dmg overall while you trying to chase them. BTW 19k hp warrior can be instantly deleted from start through stealth combo and your only hope is perfect block.But i would like to talk more about targeting. Because this one hello-kitty me a lot.1) targeting in gw2 isn't really good i don't know why but on other tab targeting games i never had such issue. You simply targeting a lot of trash before you get target you want.again you can't randomly pushing aoe skills/ ground skills like some toher classes. You have to target mesmer get to melee and watch mirage immunity and watch blind.. it's near impossible really. Call me noob but just try it yourself before you judge me. While you fight mesmer you are actually fight against bad targeting.warrior do not have aoe skill except greatsword which is on edge to call it aoe but yeah and counter which was nerfed so hard it no longer can be called dmg.. it's just improved block.and what happens when you face two mesmers ? tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab... ohh kitty this.

Least talk about mobility..

Warrior dashes have stupidly slow initial-animation that practically prevents them from use it properly in right time.Than after that initial animation u are stuck with running animation that is slow but most importantly bugged. yes! bugged do you know what happens when you running towards mesmer and he uses teleport ? Well if you are lucky and it's not case of average scenario thats why i call it lucky than direction of you running animation will change direction to new mesmer location. MOST OF TIME! your animation gets crazy! and you will start to run completely random and even completely opposite direction then mesmer is. And i dont even talk about situation when mesmer use stealth so you run nowhere and best way is swap weapon to stop that madness and interrupt animation.(because this is obviously intended so okay i get this one.)And now they can port to higher ground unreachable with warrior. Come on! There is nothing you can do about it.

And there is my conclusion:Well some of you might say problem is not mesmer but warrior but i don't have problem with other classes. I thing warrior is still in decent position when it comes to pvp just these mesmers are still problem.You can also say problem is me. Look im 100% aware of hate that will comes upon me after posting this. Maybe i'm not top player but trust me or not i have a lot of experience with gw2 pvp. If you want contact me and you can duel me in lobby arena. or just call me noob. whatever i thing I made some good points in that thread. I understand all of you are focused on scrappers right now. and BTW i have no issues with scrappers as warrior.

But let's end it here. i think i said everything i wanted to in hope its gets better in future patches. I'm glad that warrior survived last patch without nerfs which makes him a bit stronger and it's just something that wasn't happen a long time. .. i'm really used to that every patch warrior gets some major hits in balance.

So.. go on! mesmers hate me .. cry how mesmers were nerfed already but it's not enough.

um...that's a weird analogy because spellbreakers counter mirage

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:um...that's a weird analogy because spellbreakers counter mirage

Excuse me? Power mirage I would say maybe, but condi, seriously?

@Crozame.4098 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:um...that's a weird analogy because spellbreakers counter mirage

In my opinion, it is not a counter but I'd say it's winnable/bunkerable.

@"Luna.6203" said:1) detargeting

For those not in the know, there is a keybind you can set in menu called "Previous Enemy."

Bind it to something.

It's pretty simple. If you detarget something manually, or are forced a detarget by a mesmer, or target something else it will retarget your previous enemy for you. A mesmer uses detarget? You can retarget them with 100% guarantee with the push of a button immediately. No tab targeting through clones.

Mesmer thief or anything else stealths? You can retarget them once they've left with with 100% effectiveness. No tabbing through clones or other enemy team members. Always just get your previous enemy 100% of the time.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:um...that's a weird analogy because spellbreakers counter mirage

Condi mirage eats spellbreakers alive unless heavily outskilled in my experience. The only normal skill I find seriously threatening I feel is Whirlwind Blade because of how fast it comes out and how much damage it can do if they've ramped 20+ might stacks. Rampage can be threatening if caught off guard but even then chances are you have stun breaks, stealth, Phase Retreat, Blink, and if they managed to CC you you can still dodge while stunned. Frankly more often than not rampage is more an opportunity to counter pressure them and win the fight because they abandon access to condition cleanses and resistance. Like there have been so many times where the Spellbreaker is sustaining really well or landed a good hit on me and had me worried I might lose and then threw the fight because they rampaged and gave me an opportunity to dump all my damage into them for free. Doubly so because Warriors in rampage are usually in such a rush to dump out damage in Rampage form that they frequently don't bother to dodge..

Like the only Spellbreakers I lose to are guys who hang out in the top 25 really consistently.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Luna.6203" said:1) detargeting

This is actually pretty interesting advice.. i don't really expected anything constructive. This kitty is what i expected:

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:um...that's a weird analogy because spellbreakers counter mirage

I was really searching for some "targeting fix" settings or advices.

There are usually some options for targeting .. like take target from middle of screen or just circle target.. i dont really know why i have such problem there. In other games like wow or ff14 it just works well by default.

But that clouds of clones is just mess.. many times i can see clones stuck in shatter animation. Well you can clearly see it glitch not real player and it cannot be tab targeted so ok... just graphic bug... whatever...

Anyway thanks for advice... it could help a bit.

No spellbreaker doesn't counter mirage because there is NOTHING warrior can do vs. z-axis teleports you can legit reset the fights all day. You may get pushed out but you will probably out-rotate the warrior if you had half a brain and new how to blink.

hahahahha

the class is already dead and you still have people crying that it's op. But i knew that's gonna happen anyway.

The developers only nerfed the skill based weapons and mechanics on mirage and left the brain-afk things in the game. Axe nerfed beyond any reason whatsaoever the wep is 3 times weaker than before. But what is axe? Axe is a 120 range (melee) weapon that requires a lot of stamina to do CONDITIONAL DAMAGE (can be countered) (need stamina to use mirage ambush). It's a melee higher risk weapon which can also be higher reward, but it's skill based how to use axe. Same with cry of confusion - a melee shatter which requires illusion management and proper comboing with it and it was also nerfed.

Let's see what was left in the game tho - staff, completely untouched. Still has the same playstyle as before (summon 3 illusions and watch them spam slowly bouncing auto attack that does huge damage) with 1200 range and vigor/protection boons which keep you safe with a low cd blink which can be used to kite melees and ofcourse with chaos storm which is not a skill that can be ignored. So they nerfed axe which was higher risk and required skill but staff was untouched, which is the opposite of axe. Instead of promoting skillful gameplay they're doing the exact opposite.Then there's the actual problem with mesmer and it is that sage's amulet on mesmer is busted cus it gives too much healing. They should've nerfed how much mesmer abilities are influenced by healing (as they have done for other classes and skills) but they didn't, so mesmer with staff and sage basically can run in circle with 0 skill and heal for 400k+ every game. XD.

Mirage is trash, i wouldn't pick the class any more if i were building a "really good team and aiming to win" because the class was simply nerfed out of this game. Nerfed every single patch consistently until this last one completely destroyed axe. Staff/sword are still good tho but the gameplay and the style is incredibly boring and the role is inferior to other classes in the same role and depends on its team too much.

Instead of getting a more balanced/more fun game what we got was a way more boring game and the only viable classes in the current meta are literally snoozefest afk bunkers like scrapper and running in circle on a point and waiting for a +1 and not actually playing the game. They nerfed the fun mirage gameplay/build for no reason but left the toxic/boring one so if people wanted to troll they could still do it but they simply wouldn't be viable any more. Also for the generic "QQ MIRAGE " i suppose there's nothing more to say than l2p, mirage hasn't been op for half a year now but it's people like you that peer pressured arena net's developers into destroying the only fun class in this game. Now instead of gw2 keeping up with other games of 2019, it feels like a 2009 game to me because they even thought it's a good idea to make skills clunkier and harder to use as a nerf, instead doing the exact opposite to make the game feel more fluid and modern. Lol.

So to sum it up, no , mirage is nowhere near op. Mirage is the worst class in the game now (officially worse than elementalist) and the only semi-viable build for mirage is a boring slow one with sustain and bad dmg

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Luna.6203" said:1) detargeting

Huh I think this is the first time I have actually used the Helpful button and mean it, I think. Thanks for the tip!

@incisorr.9502 said:

So to sum it up, no , mirage is nowhere near op. Mirage is the worst class in the game now (officially worse than elementalist) and the only semi-viable build for mirage is a boring slow one with sustain and bad dmg

We all saw it coming, only those that played it were in denial, but you know whats the funny part? Mirage players adapted and are now playing staff, and guess what, they are still as obnoxious and strong as before, although it does take slightly longer to build up the condis but they still build up.

Worse than ele, really? Man, I dont even know where to begin, all I can tell you is to go play one and see it for yourself, I think you need a reality check. I mean, I get it, you are angry and frustrated that your fav free rating class was touched slightly, but there is no need to have a mental breakdown on the forums. Try new stuff, adapt like most mirage players have, learn how to play it properly, dunno, but know you wont get any pity from anyone who has been on the receiving end of these builds, and still are. /cheers

Targeting is pretty good i always use tab to target (never click) and it targets the mesmer 100% of the time you just have to learn how to use it properly.

Incissor posts its something I'd never read...But after seeing 2 first rows I have to agree . Its pretty much D E A D.
The only build is still good is scepter chrono , once someone realize scepter does damage this build will be dead too

@Luna.6203cry how mesmers were nerfed already but it's not enough.Funny but thats you crying claiming its easy to kill and hard to kill in same time. Bravo !L2p is never an option , they should delete X class because you suck :joy:

I mean I think Mirage is better than ele but I have actually seen more weavers than mirages over the last few days in EU 1700+ rating.

@"incisorr.9502" said:hahahahha

the class is already dead and you still have people crying that it's op. But i knew that's gonna happen anyway.

The developers only nerfed the skill based weapons and mechanics on mirage and left the brain-afk things in the game. Axe nerfed beyond any reason whatsaoever the wep is 3 times weaker than before. But what is axe? Axe is a 120 range (melee) weapon that requires a lot of stamina to do CONDITIONAL DAMAGE (can be countered) (need stamina to use mirage ambush). It's a melee higher risk weapon which can also be higher reward, but it's skill based how to use axe. Same with cry of confusion - a melee shatter which requires illusion management and proper comboing with it and it was also nerfed.

Let's see what was left in the game tho - staff, completely untouched. Still has the same playstyle as before (summon 3 illusions and watch them spam slowly bouncing auto attack that does huge damage) with 1200 range and vigor/protection boons which keep you safe with a low cd blink which can be used to kite melees and ofcourse with chaos storm which is not a skill that can be ignored. So they nerfed axe which was higher risk and required skill but staff was untouched, which is the opposite of axe. Instead of promoting skillful gameplay they're doing the exact opposite.Then there's the actual problem with mesmer and it is that sage's amulet on mesmer is busted cus it gives too much healing. They should've nerfed how much mesmer abilities are influenced by healing (as they have done for other classes and skills) but they didn't, so mesmer with staff and sage basically can run in circle with 0 skill and heal for 400k+ every game. XD.

Mirage is trash, i wouldn't pick the class any more if i were building a "really good team and aiming to win" because the class was simply nerfed out of this game. Nerfed every single patch consistently until this last one completely destroyed axe. Staff/sword are still good tho but the gameplay and the style is incredibly boring and the role is inferior to other classes in the same role and depends on its team too much.

Instead of getting a more balanced/more fun game what we got was a way more boring game and the only viable classes in the current meta are literally snoozefest afk bunkers like scrapper and running in circle on a point and waiting for a +1 and not actually playing the game. They nerfed the fun mirage gameplay/build for no reason but left the toxic/boring one so if people wanted to troll they could still do it but they simply wouldn't be viable any more. Also for the generic "QQ MIRAGE " i suppose there's nothing more to say than l2p, mirage hasn't been op for half a year now but it's people like you that peer pressured arena net's developers into destroying the only fun class in this game. Now instead of gw2 keeping up with other games of 2019, it feels like a 2009 game to me because they even thought it's a good idea to make skills clunkier and harder to use as a nerf, instead doing the exact opposite to make the game feel more fluid and modern. Lol.

So to sum it up, no , mirage is nowhere near op. Mirage is the worst class in the game now (officially worse than elementalist) and the only semi-viable build for mirage is a boring slow one with sustain and bad dmg

This is lff topic. But try sheathing your weapon to leave that running animation.> @mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Luna.6203" said:1) detargeting

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:um...that's a weird analogy because spellbreakers counter mirage

Wait. What the fuck.

It retargets the real mesmer?

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@"incisorr.9502" said:hahahahha

the class is already dead and you still have people crying that it's op. But i knew that's gonna happen anyway.

The developers only nerfed the skill based weapons and mechanics on mirage and left the brain-afk things in the game. Axe nerfed beyond any reason whatsaoever the wep is 3 times weaker than before. But what is axe? Axe is a 120 range (melee) weapon that requires a lot of stamina to do CONDITIONAL DAMAGE (can be countered) (need stamina to use mirage ambush). It's a melee higher risk weapon which can also be higher reward, but it's skill based how to use axe. Same with cry of confusion - a melee shatter which requires illusion management and proper comboing with it and it was also nerfed.

Let's see what was left in the game tho - staff, completely untouched. Still has the same playstyle as before (summon 3 illusions and watch them spam slowly bouncing auto attack that does huge damage) with 1200 range and vigor/protection boons which keep you safe with a low cd blink which can be used to kite melees and ofcourse with chaos storm which is not a skill that can be ignored. So they nerfed axe which was higher risk and required skill but staff was untouched, which is the opposite of axe. Instead of promoting skillful gameplay they're doing the exact opposite.Then there's the actual problem with mesmer and it is that sage's amulet on mesmer is busted cus it gives too much healing. They should've nerfed how much mesmer abilities are influenced by healing (as they have done for other classes and skills) but they didn't, so mesmer with staff and sage basically can run in circle with 0 skill and heal for 400k+ every game. XD.

Mirage is trash, i wouldn't pick the class any more if i were building a "really good team and aiming to win" because the class was simply nerfed out of this game. Nerfed every single patch consistently until this last one completely destroyed axe. Staff/sword are still good tho but the gameplay and the style is incredibly boring and the role is inferior to other classes in the same role and depends on its team too much.

Instead of getting a more balanced/more fun game what we got was a way more boring game and the only viable classes in the current meta are literally snoozefest afk bunkers like scrapper and running in circle on a point and waiting for a +1 and not actually playing the game. They nerfed the fun mirage gameplay/build for no reason but left the toxic/boring one so if people wanted to troll they could still do it but they simply wouldn't be viable any more. Also for the generic "QQ MIRAGE " i suppose there's nothing more to say than l2p, mirage hasn't been op for half a year now but it's people like you that peer pressured arena net's developers into destroying the only fun class in this game. Now instead of gw2 keeping up with other games of 2019, it feels like a 2009 game to me because they even thought it's a good idea to make skills clunkier and harder to use as a nerf, instead doing the exact opposite to make the game feel more fluid and modern. Lol.

So to sum it up, no , mirage is nowhere near op. Mirage is the worst class in the game now (officially worse than elementalist) and the only semi-viable build for mirage is a boring slow one with sustain and bad dmg

@"Luna.6203" said:1) detargeting

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:um...that's a weird analogy because spellbreakers counter mirage

If the real mesmer was the previous target, yes.

Condi Mirage is still the most notably noob friendly garbage. Nerf it please. Remove at least another 50% of condition application.

@BadMed.3846 said:Condi Mirage is still the most notably noob friendly garbage. Nerf it please. Remove at least another 50% of condition application.

It was already done last patch.

@Fortus.6175 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Luna.6203" said:1) detargeting

@"incisorr.9502" said:

So to sum it up, no , mirage is nowhere near op. Mirage is the worst class in the game now (officially worse than elementalist) and the only semi-viable build for mirage is a boring slow one with sustain and bad dmg

lol what are you even talking about

Staff has been meta the entire time. It has never not been meta. What "good players adapted" when it's been like this all along? Have you played the game? You don't need to play the game you can just check metabattle. Staff has been the most popular and played mirage variation because it's the easiest to play. They didn't touch staff at all, that's what my post says.

I get that you couldn't l2p how to beat mesmers and abused the forum to post toxic feedback until the class was destroyed but there's a line with false truths.

As for "adapting to the new patch". I already addressed this in my post, again, which you conveniently just ignored and quoted me to insult me. The adaptation is to play a defensive build because those weren't touched. I don't want to play a boring afk build with inflated defensive stats and unfun offense so i just won't play the game, or mirage, because it's not fun

@"mortrialus.3062" said:For those not in the know, there is a keybind you can set in menu called "Previous Target."

...... i'm ashamed, thank you.

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Condi mirage eats spellbreakers alive unless heavily outskilled in my experience.

Totally agreed, i play both and i have to be rly carefull when i face a medium/good mirage despite "shake it off" and the resistance.

Otherwise, when i play my no meta mirage axe+torch, scepter+pistol (meta is god mode), even with the axe nerf, war is already dead before we begin except a good one.

I also want to qualify my words, if the war stun me and i'm out of teleport/endurance...i'm pretty sure i'm dead.

Pretty sure it’s 50/50 matchup now. Depending on which node you are fighting on. You fight on a node where they can teleport up and kite, you lose, but since Mirage dodge got nerfed, I’m finding a lot more oppurtinities to land my skills and put Mirages on the backfoot. I think they did a good job with Mirage this patch. The 5 good Mirages in this game are still superior with it and that’s how it should be.

Since it's trash, I hope a special someone is finally back in gold again...?

@everyman.4375 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:Condi Mirage is still the most notably noob friendly garbage. Nerf it please. Remove at least another 50% of condition application.

No. Wasn't. Need it done properly.

@"incisorr.9502" said:words

No man, I swear it, play eles without a healing amulet and try to do half of the stuff mesmers can still do, you will know what true lack of sustain and reliable damage is. I'm not trying to insult you, no need to take everything as a personal attack, nobody is out to get you. But I do hope you realize you are starting to build quite the somewhat negative reputation in this subforum already, and I do hope you reflect as to why it might be.

We can play to be blinded all day (well, mesmer's shatter certainly spam it... hehe, ok sorry, had to make that joke) but the meta is there whether you want to recognize it or not, and it is on the ranked games, the AT and it is aaaaaall being collected in websites like this:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

Look at the top builds there. Again, you might like or dislike this website, but the entries are done by users, voted by users, updated based on ranked and ATs, so it isnt some giant conspiracy to make a certain particular class get nerfed or anything. Maybe your build is just not effective, maybe you are not playing it effectively, but you cant deny that it is strong and meta, because the meta, like the Earth being round, wont change from being true and there just because you dont believe in it.

@BadMed.3846 said:

@everyman.4375 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:Condi Mirage is still the most notably noob friendly garbage. Nerf it please. Remove at least another 50% of condition application.

Cry of frustration cut in half and axe cut in half, that's the majority of mirage's damage cut in half.

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:um...that's a weird analogy because spellbreakers counter mirage

Spellbreaker isn't what it says on the tin.

It's more like "Anyone not using spells" breaker.Still strong, to be sure, just not at the one thing its marketed as being good at.

To be honest I absolutely loathe fighting mirage as warrior because of the things mentioned in OP. I have all of this setup I need to do continuously just to be sure I'm hitting the right target, and all the while I am clearly visible with one block and a couple of evades, easily exploitable by this mesmer at range. While Mort is right and "previous target" works wonders, its still wasted time that I have to devote to target the mes, only for taunt from defender to rip it again or one of their skills that forcibly shifts target, that I have to manage while avoiding the mesmer's bursts and setups. And if I manage to do all that (at least before the last patch), any stun contact could have more than a second of dps time just flat out mitigated by mirror cloak, no questions asked as long as they have 50 endurance.

It's doable but it's hella frustrating, just mechanically. I haven't tried as of late and the new balancing looks promising, but as a warrior that matchup succcccccks.

Mesmer was nerfed in mostly the wrong areas. Confusion was never the issue.

"Yeah 18 confusion is balanced /s hurr durr" - If you're being hit by axes of symmetry and cry of frustration at the same time you are a potato and deserved it. Wait 3s or cleanse for a 3.5k damage hit, EZ.

"Yeah but should anyone stack 18 confusion?? [smugface]" -at 1400 condition damage confusion does 186 damage on activation, that's just shy of 3.5k damage at 18 stacks. Any power hit will do more, from any power class. You can also wait 3s for it to go and they can't do it for 22s and even cleanse it at the cost of barely any damage.

Confusion had more counterplay than most skills on power builds.

CONFUSION WAS NEVER THE PROBLEM

The problem was the combination of torment and confusion shutting you down if you make a mistake as well as imaginary axes applying so much the latter was addressed.

Here's what should have been addressed:

Torment removed from most mirage skills, change it to bleed for lower ramp up of damage.Axes of Symmetry should have a CD in line with core, 15s. (note this should be on all elite specs, their number 3 skills are all on much lower cool downs than core)Scepter block should be increased to 8s, reduce clone count to 1, maybe remove torment and add bleed or reduce it to 3 stacks.Scepter 3 should be reworked, I don't know what though, I'll admit that's bad feedback but 6 confusion on a 15s cool down with no channel would be good.Illusionary Ambush 25s, then next patch 30s while addressing similar really low CD defences on other classes so they all become more in line at the same time.Remove Auspicious Anguish distortion reset, make it a flat distortion cool down reduction of 5s or something.Evasive Mirror should have been tied to on heal and have a 20s ICD or something. Either way tie it to a skill use not on evading an attack, too much reflect uptime.