Mass Invisibility request

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Can we see some buffs happen to Mass invis. Since you buffed stealth gyro to be the best stealth elite in game. Can we at least see a cooldown reduction for mass invis. I think pulling it to 35s would put it in line.

Also.Master of Manipulation needs to give some other benefit besides reflect. It makes mass in his useless in most situations. ( reflected projectiles reveal you)Credit to @Kiroshima.8497 and @K Then for reminding me how bad this trait is.

I'd rather have stealth gyro nerfed to 180 cd.But if ANet insists on maintaining the current values than yes, MI should be 35sec.

Not just cooldown, can we change the manipulation trait to not have reflect/mirror and do something else instead. Nothing worse than using MI and the watching a random projectile bounce back and reveal you.

I'd appreciate if they would at least change the master of manipulation trait and its interaction with Mass Invis cause in it's current state...since release...if you cast MI while running the trait, then it "buffs" you with projectile reflect...on an invisibility skill...where all it takes is 1 longbow auto to be reflected and reveal you which completely negates the purpose of Mass Invis altogether

@Kiroshima.8497 said:Not just cooldown, can we change the manipulation trait to not have reflect/mirror and do something else instead. Nothing worse than using MI and the watching a random projectile bounce back and reveal you.

I'm adding that to the OP

Players have been complaining and asking for a change to 'master of manipulation' for years now. I would say its going to happen eventually buuuut . . . . . surprisingly it hasn't happened yet. Just give them 3 or 4 more years to work out the kinks.

They will release it when it is ready!!!!

@Solori.6025 said:@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Can we see some buffs happen to Mass invis. Since you buffed stealth gyro to be the best stealth elite in game. Can we at least see a cooldown reduction for mass invis. I think pulling it to 35s would put it in line.

Also.Master of Manipulation needs to give some other benefit besides reflect. It makes mass in his useless in most situations. ( reflected projectiles reveal you)Credit to @Kiroshima.8497 and @K Then for reminding me how bad this trait is.

All they do is vomit 'content' in the 'content-shop' .1 glace at patchnotes is enough to understand they have no clue what is a problem,what is not a problem, reasonable changes being ignored in favor of whining ,never admit their mistakes because they cant be wrong etc

Is impossible do some additional stack invis wiht some combo blast ? If yes, no matter you or someone o another class near Mesmer ? If yes - no any improve needed. If someone need spam that skill - he can use c-split

@lare.5129 said:Is impossible do some additional stack invis wiht some combo blast ? If yes, no matter you or someone o another class near Mesmer ? If yes - no any improve needed. If someone need spam that skill - he can use c-split

I want to try and respond to this, but I can't because it's too hard to understand....

try again?

@Solori.6025 said:

@lare.5129 said:Is impossible do some additional stack invis wiht some combo blast ? If yes, no matter you or someone o another class near Mesmer ? If yes - no any improve needed. If someone need spam that skill - he can use c-split

I'm not sure but ... he ask if mass invis as much broken as sneak gyro and also produce smoke fields on 1200 radius or not. Cant be so sure about it

Odik is on the right track.I think he meant if mass inv creates a field that you can blast for more stealth. And if that's the case you don't need to buff it.If you want to spam mass inv you can use continuum split.

Mass invis is available to every Mesmer spec. Can be traited to last 50% longer and grant boons by any spec. Can be used twice by one spec.

Not saying it might not be deserving a little love, but more perspective might help understand where.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I'd rather have stealth gyro nerfed to 180 cd.But if ANet insists on maintaining the current values than yes, MI should be 35sec.

Sneak Gyro deserves a 240 second cooldown if you're balancing around being comparable to Mass Invisibility.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I'd rather have stealth gyro nerfed to 180 cd.But if ANet insists on maintaining the current values than yes, MI should be 35sec.

True.I mentioned 180 because, except some racials, that's the max amount of elite cd if I'm not mistaken.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Odik is on the right track.I think he meant if mass inv creates a field that you can blast for more stealth. And if that's the case you don't need to buff it.If you want to spam mass inv you can use continuum split.

Ahhh ok. Yea I saw that at 4am and was not going to attempt to decipher lol.

Anyway. No mass invis is not a blast field it's a one and done.Two @Tinnel.4369 I believe when traited with Prismatic the duration is increased by one whole second.Continuum Split could be easily changed to Not work with mi similar to what they did with mimic.Comparatively between Sneak Gyro and Mass Invisibility, it's clear as day that the gyro is better in any given situation.I agree with @mortrialus.3062 if the CD for MI won't go down then 240cd for the gyro given its benefits would be a better alternative

@Solori.6025 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Odik is on the right track.I think he meant if mass inv creates a field that you can blast for more stealth. And if that's the case you don't need to buff it.If you want to spam mass inv you can use continuum split.

I disagree with CS thing.Even improvisation works with elites.Plus chrono is already trash, the only thing who keeps it afloat is chaos.

@Solori.6025 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Odik is on the right track.I think he meant if mass inv creates a field that you can blast for more stealth. And if that's the case you don't need to buff it.If you want to spam mass inv you can use continuum split.

Mass invis is 5 seconds. Prismatic understanding increases stealth duration by 50%. 50% of 5 is 1?!?

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Odik is on the right track.I think he meant if mass inv creates a field that you can blast for more stealth. And if that's the case you don't need to buff it.If you want to spam mass inv you can use continuum split.

If thieves can chain three Daggerstorms back to back for 12.75 seconds straight of evade and damage then double Mass Invisibility won't be a problem.

I mean heck, core engineer's Toolbelt skill for Elixir S is a stealth as good as Mass Invisibility, that's 5 targets, has 1/4th the cast time, half the cooldown and the trait to reduce it's cooldown is meta and almost always going to be run so it's practically 1/3 the cooldown.

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Odik is on the right track.I think he meant if mass inv creates a field that you can blast for more stealth. And if that's the case you don't need to buff it.If you want to spam mass inv you can use continuum split.

7.5s at 90 seconds still ain't no 18 seconds in far more useful pulsing increments plus blasting and leaping on an 45 second cooldown at less than half the cast time.

Problem One: Target Cap

First let's talk about target cap:Mass invisibility has a maximum of 10 targets. In most gamemodes that won't be useful at all!

• PvP: 5 Players vs 5 Players extra stelth goes to Pets, Minions and Illusions.
• PvE Raids: Stelath... haha.
• PvE Fractals/Dungeons: 5 Players... I see a pattern...
• WvW Roaming: In rare cases you'll have more than 5 players you'll need to stealth up.
• WvW Zerging: 10 Player target cap is not enough here so the skill is essentially useless except for personal stealth.

Problem 2: Cast time

Stealth skills are used in clutch moments where you want to disengage / rezz / surprise the enemy with a sudden burst. In PvE you'll want stealth to avoid aggro and skip mobs.

Mass invisibility has a cast time of almost 2s, 1.75s to be exact, which makes it hard to use in clutch moments. In PvP and WvW this cast time leaves you exposed to danger and makes it hard to finish the cast. Especially when you're the player that needs the stealth to be saved.

Problem 3: The TraitThis has been here for ages and it will keep returning until they fix it. Traiting Mass invisibility with Master of Manipulation will often lead to reflection while you're in stealth and unwillingly reveal you.

Random Sidenote:Mass Invisibility has been the same skill since release. It has never been touched aside from becoming a manipulation.

I personally would like them to turn mass invisibility into a Mantra like this:Channel effect: 3s of stealth in 1200 units on 10 targetsCharge effect: 3s of stealth in 240 units on 5 targets.Stock recharge 30sCooldown 45s

This way you would keep the vulnerability on the channel, enhance the skill in uptime, accessibility and utility as well as remove the anti interaction from Master of Manipulation.

Maybe stealth gyro needs a nerf, not mas invis needing a buff.

@mortrialus.3062

True that, I'm just trying to keep the facts straight.

Sneak gyro does indeed seem a lot better than mass invis on paper and I won't be shocked to see it nerfed. However, comparing skill to skill in a vacuum is a slippery slope.

If the most dangerous thing a scrapper has is that gyro I'm not too concerned (WvW wise anyhow). It's a pigeonholed barely functioning spec that struggles to stay on target and do any significant burst damage.

Mesmer, though, has a comparitively giant tool kit it can use around mass invis. They can already instagib from what stealth they have and have oppressive condi application with scrapper like sustain.

Again, I think you have to consider the skill in the context of the whole class.

@Tinnel.4369 said:@mortrialus.3062

True that, I'm just trying to keep the facts straight.

Sneak gyro does indeed seem a lot better than mass invis on paper and I won't be shocked to see it nerfed. However, comparing skill to skill in a vacuum is a slippery slope.

If the most dangerous thing a scrapper has is that gyro I'm not too concerned (WvW wise anyhow). It's a pigeonholed barely functioning spec that struggles to stay on target and do any significant burst damage.

Mesmer, though, has a comparitively giant toll kit it can use around mass invis. They can already instagib from what stealth they have and have oppressive condi application with scrapper like sustain.

Again, I think you have to consider the skill in the context of the whole class.

Considering the skill in context of the whole class I'd say it is a good skill indeed it's just not a skill worth an Elite slot.I would rather take Decoy or SoMidnight in the elite slot if I could. The value of 5s stealth is just not enough considering the cooldown cast time and trait interaction.This skill (and other elites that weren't changed since 2012) need some serious love.

Odik made a thread not long ago about this.All core elites are trash, and this is the only reason jaunt is used on mirage.The only good elite mesmer has access to is grav. well.

Can we also compare toss elixir X and Signet of Humility pls?

Passive: Reduces duration of incoming stuns, dazes, fears, and taunts.Active: Transforms your foe into a moa bird.(Defiant foes will have their defiant bar reduced instead.)

Decreased: 20%Duration: 6sRange: 1,2001s Cast180s Recharge base, cannot be reduced.The signet's casting effect will now occur at the beginning of the ability.This ability can no longer target enemies behind the mesmer who casts it.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility

Toss Elixir XMorphed (3s): Transformed into a moa bird.Number of Targets: 3Range: 9001/2s Cast120s Recharge base, can be reduced as low as 80sCan be tossed behind and anywhere you want really

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X

Elixir X's parent skill gives rampage or tornado, the first being incredibly strong and the second not so strong but arguably better than the signet passive which is barely noticeable.

Is it me or does Engineer pretty much have better elites than the classes that originally had equivocal elites? As you say MI compared to stealth gyro is very jarring but if you also look at elixir X it's also generally giving too much also.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Odik made a thread not long ago about this.All core elites are trash, and this is the only reason jaunt is used on mirage.The only good elite mesmer has access to is grav. well.

True.