The First Sin of WvW Balance - Lack of "An Equal Playing Field" (Important)

(The following is my 2nd Problem with WvW out of my Top 5) (Also, sorry for the length, but felt each part is necessary)

Gear Influences Experience

You know, one thing I really tend to love about games in general... Are the piece's it takes to play them. Now, these of coarse are important, because they Strongly influence mine, yours or anyone's Experience playing the game; outside of just pure skill. Which can ether elicit a Positive or Negative (somewhere in that spectrum) feeling/understanding regarding games. This outcome can easily occur when those pieces are coupled with those various skill sets that us Players, more uniquely possess. As well as our (as Players) processes in the experience's around those pieces (like how to get those pieces). Not just skill alone.However, I want to talk about the in game pieces. More specifically... Gear.Now, how much influence can these various pieces of "Gear" offer? Depends. It really depends on how well the Gear is balanced. Alongside how well the things (like Professions) are being influenced, by Gear, are balanced. Feeding ultimately into each of our own individual experiences.This is important because our "experiences" are how we directly value our time playing the game. Is the experience Good, Bad or somewhere in between?

However, that's Not actually the kinds of balance I wish to talk about here. No... Instead, what I wish to talk about is another balance. Related to Gear and overall balance. I would like to call this..."The Balance of Reasonable Opportunity". Otherwise known as "An Equal Playing Field" (you'll see). That is also in Strong relation to Gear, but involving a focus on "Gear Stats". Including the opportunities it provides towards better ("Good") experiences. Basically, how we go about obtaining our desired Gear Stats. Across our "x" amount of characters. And the Impact that process has, without a shadow of a doubt, onto overall WvW Balance. Thus, again, ultimately "into each of our own individual experiences". Again asking the question we always ask ourselves... "Is the experience Good, Bad or somewhere in between?"

Well, the answer to that question is more or less unique. Firstly, are all of our experiences in obtaining our desired gear stats the same? No, obviously not. If I want to play 7 of the 9 professions (with desired builds) vs. someone who only wants to 2 of the 9. Guess what? I am going to have the experience of having to grind (aka Work...) harder. Than that other player. Simply because I want to try to have fun playing more builds on professions. And that's 1 example. Before we could go into the next extreme. That is, having at least a couple or more viable builds per profession. However you get the point. So the fact of the matter is... The Players that wish to experience/enjoy the game further, on builds. Quite literally, have to pay an absurd amount (aside from time spent), just to be able to experience it.Now initially, this sounds a bit weird and really just counterproductive by limiting that experience. Though, the grind has an end at least... Right? Yes, of course... Legendary's. However, is it Reasonable? That's a BIG "NO". Not for this reason. Why? Simply because it turns Legendary's into a Complete (VERY EXPENSIVE/Time Gated) "MUST HAVE" to play WvW "Stat Worry Free". And to have to do that across "x" professions/builds just to be able to experience WvW "Stat Worry Free" (At least as close we can currently get to it)... is pure insanity & Imbalanced. This is in part, what can make it harder for players to become accustomed to WvW. They have to "Worry" about their experience. The more they wish to explore it. Leading to other experience's (like fights involving overall balance) that they don't even know if they'll even enjoy. And this is primarily, if not Exactly, why People who go for legendary gear... Go for legendary gear. So that they don't have to really "Worry" about being able to play in a manner that they may enjoy. However, still only for the characters that own it/can use it. With far less Stress and Worry. (@Anet, please try to take that near continuous toxic "Worry" away)That said, I'm going to prove all this further with a quote from a link. That will recognize all this and more...

"An Equal Playing Field"

The Link https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Structured_PvP. The Quote is from the "Gear and builds" section reads as follows:

"The attributes, runes, and sigils from a character's PvE equipment are not used in structured PvP maps. Instead, equipment attributes are normalized, and players select a rune set, a sigil set, a PvP-specific amulet, and a set of specializations in the PvP Build panel. This build is maintained separately from the player's normal PvE or WvW build, and is automatically applied whenever a character enters the structured PvP lobby map. This mechanic allows players to be on an equal playing field with the same attributes, skills, and equipment options as other players. Players need to equip chest, legs and foot armor to achieve the base armor value, but hands, shoulders and head may be ignored."

I went ahead and put the main take away there in bold. Which again states:

• "This mechanic allows players to be on an equal playing field with the same attributes, skills, and equipment options as other players".

So the Fact is... WvW does NOT have such a considerate "mechanic". Therefore, we are by no means considered on an "equal playing field", from the moment you or we step into WvW. And every time after. So the next time you or anyone else has any feelings towards the "overall balance" ... Remember, you/I/they weren't even on "an equal playing field" to begin with.And that goes beyond being outnumbered or vice versa.

More Justification as to why this is important... Another Link and another Quote...

"WvW is first and foremost, a Player vs. Player game-mode"

This time, taking a quote from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World from under the "Combat" sub-section within the "Mechanics" section reads as follows:

• "WvW is first and foremost, a Player vs. Player game-mode. You are rewarded with both loot and Points-Per-Kill (PPK) for killing enemy players."

"First and foremost"... WvW is about the Combat. That Player vs. Player interaction. @Anet, you trivialize that Greatly, by disregarding "an equal playing field" mechanic. As previously discussed. WvW isn't about the Gear Stat Grind... Never was. Again, it's about that Player vs. Player interaction... "First and foremost".

Lastly, for clarity...

• This is post is NOT advocating for specifically an Amulet System. Only a "Mechanic" that would achieve "an equal playing field" in regards to WvW's environment and respect to its Playerbase. Ideas are of coarse welcome.
• Legendary's: This post is NOT meant to undermine efforts towards Legendary's. I believe that there are other mean's (ideas) in which Legendary's could still be very beneficial to players in WvW. Reminder: PvP Players got Legendary's well and long before WvW Players ever did... Yet they cannot make good use of it in PvP because of that environment. Though, I'm willing and would like to hear discussions/idea's around this.
• Economical Impact: Is Not limited to Gear and operates (considering supply/demand) primarily on a "potential to buy/sell" Not a "guaranteed to buy/sell". So it would seem appropriate to discuss where gold could go still... As it could go places now. Also, the Impact (if any) PvP has on the Economy already... Since that is a mode that already bypasses the need for most gear and higher tier gear as is. And to what degree @Anet considers the economy to be bad. Compared to whatever degree (good or bad) it is now. So, by all means... Discuss.
• This post is NOT to undermine any work @Anet has done. Once upon a time there were crafting stations, certain land masses, place-able cannons, no reward tracks etc. that shaped WvW... Now, things are different in (what should be) an effort to strive for better. The "strive" and effort in this post is no different.
• This post IS about the Importance of the Player vs. Player aspect of WvW "First and foremost". And the Lack of "An Equal Playing Field" that trivializes the Balance around it.

To conclude. Firstly, sorry about the length. Tried to make it as short as possible. Secondly, @Anet... Please, in the name of all that is good. Implement "an equal playing field" mechanic in WvW... So that people can more significantly and meaningfully experience what is supposed to be WvW's main Element... The Player vs. Player Combat.

Thank You, for taking the time to read.

P.S. Just like "Alliances" are a "WvW" related attempt at "an equal playing field" regarding numbers. Same should go for the Gear involved in that PvP interaction.

@"Swagger.1459" said:Accessibility to start… https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_level_80_exotic_armor

Work on leveling crafting... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting to make https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_equipment

Play wvw and buy Ascended gear... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmish_Supervisor

…Anet has created a gear system that's easier to obtain max level gear. There are many convenient processes to crafting. Gear you make isn't devalued and you can even stat swap Ascended weapons and armor...and certain newer trinkets.

Over 6 years I have made or bought 400 Ascended gear pieces. Obtained Raid Legendary Armor. Made or bought https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bolt. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Dreamer. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frenzy_(weapon). https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Howler. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incinerator. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kudzu. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kamohoali%27i_Kotaki. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Predator. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rodgort. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sunrise. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Twilight. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eternity. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Astralaria. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chuka_and_Champawat. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eureka. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/HOPE. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nevermore. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sharur. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pharus. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warbringer. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aurora. For WvW play... And I'm obviously not the only one who has made gears for WvW over the course of years... And the devs aren't going to screw over players, or change the gear system for matter.

I'm generally not a fan saying it like this, but those that want the amulet system need to not be lazy.... Everyone can easily start wvw with cheap exotics, or play forever in exotics. Other gears can be made or obtained over time, and the dev WANT players playing over time... Go participate in STRUCTURED pvp if you want a structured amulet gear system and to fight over small circles in 5v5s. WvW is modeled after "open world" DAoC Realm vs Realm gameplay, and the current gear system will not change because some of you do not want to put in the time to gear up...

This request from some of you isn't about "balance", it's about not wanting to put in the effort to making gears. And it's kinda silly that some of you are trying to impose a pvp amulet system on wvw and claiming "balance", when pvp is far from balanced... even with the amulet system. The amulet system was a logical design choice for spvp because Anet wanted to break into the e-sports scene... https://www.eslgaming.com/, but this is wvw we are talking about here.

You peeps are not getting an amulet system inside of wvw for a plethora of reasons. Sorry.

The cost in numbers for 1 set of gear, for 1 player. Now multiply this over 6 years and thousands upon thousands upon thousands of players... who have made or obtained gears for wvw play...

The devs are not going to change the gearing system now and devalue player efforts, time, game resources, real money... to change. WvW is an "open world" RvR experience based off of DAoC RvR gameplay. WvW was never meant to be an "equal playing field". WvW is not about structured gear or gameplay. SPvP was made structured in those ways in an effort to make it as an E-Sport. Balance is not made through gear, it's made through profession development.

@Swagger.1459 said:For @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 @"Raymond Lukes.6305" and Systems Team

Some additional perspectives related to this topic…

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28024/increasing-ttk-undoing-old-split-changes-and-eliminating-skill-splitting

A player running Exotics, while using a high damage oriented build, can destroy a player in any gear set up. This is more than obvious against low toughness builds, but also includes mid to high range toughness builds as well… And now we have mount “nukes” to contend with too… So a player can follows the game systems of gearing up and improving their builds, just to be destroyed within seconds during combat regardless of any personal efforts or factors, when an opponent is given the tools to blow you up in a few keypresses…

But let’s look at the actual costs a player incurs to build up gear, and let’s consider it can be completely wasted when a high damage build comes along... Not to mention the frustration players will feel..

Average cost to level up crafting to make Ascended gear on a Scholar class…

• 500 Tailor… 63 Gold
• 500 Artificer… 78 Gold
• 500 Weaponsmith… 95 Gold
• 500 Huntsman… 105 Gold

Costs (gold, mats, currencies) to make Dire Ascended gears for a Condi Necro…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_equipment

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Morbach%27s_armor

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Morbach%27s_Masque

• 245 Spool of Gossamer Thread
• 20 Pile of Crystalline Dust
• 5 Glob of Dark Matter
• 1 Dire Intricate Gossamer Insignia
• 1 Augur's Stone
• 200 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
• 12 Obsidian Shard
• 100 Thermocatalytic Reagent
• 200 Dragonite Ore
• 200 Empyreal Fragment
• 200 Wool Scrap
• 100 Cotton Scrap
• 200 Linen Scrap
• 9 Glob of Ectoplasm
• 160 Thin Leather Section
• 80 Coarse Leather Section
• 160 Rugged Leather Section
• 1500 Silk Scrap
• 800 Thick Leather Section

Total cost 38g 89s 60c

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Morbach%27s_Epaulets

• 245 Spool of Gossamer Thread
• 20 Pile of Crystalline Dust
• 5 Glob of Dark Matter
• 1 Dire Intricate Gossamer Insignia
• 1 Augur's Stone
• 200 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
• 12 Obsidian Shard
• 100 Thermocatalytic Reagent
• 200 Dragonite Ore
• 200 Empyreal Fragment
• 200 Wool Scrap
• 100 Cotton Scrap
• 200 Linen Scrap
• 9 Glob of Ectoplasm
• 160 Thin Leather Section
• 80 Coarse Leather Section
• 160 Rugged Leather Section
• 1500 Silk Scrap
• 800 Thick Leather Section

Total cost 39g 05s 00c

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Morbach%27s_Doublet

• 320 Spool of Gossamer Thread
• 20 Pile of Crystalline Dust
• 5 Glob of Dark Matter
• 1 Dire Intricate Gossamer Insignia
• 1 Augur's Stone
• 500 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
• 30 Obsidian Shard
• 190 Thermocatalytic Reagent
• 500 Dragonite Ore
• 500 Empyreal Fragment
• 320 Wool Scrap
• 160 Cotton Scrap
• 320 Linen Scrap
• 12 Glob of Ectoplasm
• 160 Thin Leather Section
• 80 Coarse Leather Section
• 160 Rugged Leather Section
• 2400 Silk Scrap800 Thick Leather Section

Total cost 50g 20s 34c

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Morbach%27s_Wristguards

• 245 Spool of Gossamer Thread
• 20 Pile of Crystalline Dust
• 5 Glob of Dark Matter
• 1 Dire Intricate Gossamer Insignia
• 1 Augur's Stone
• 200 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
• 12 Obsidian Shard
• 100 Thermocatalytic Reagent
• 200 Dragonite Ore
• 200 Empyreal Fragment
• 200 Wool Scrap
• 100 Cotton Scrap
• 200 Linen Scrap
• 9 Glob of Ectoplasm
• 160 Thin Leather Section
• 80 Coarse Leather Section
• 160 Rugged Leather Section
• 1500 Silk Scrap
• 800 Thick Leather Section

Total cost 39g 01s 80c

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Morbach%27s_Breeches

• 320 Spool of Gossamer Thread
• 20 Pile of Crystalline Dust
• 5 Glob of Dark Matter
• 1 Dire Intricate Gossamer Insignia
• 1 Augur's Stone
• 200 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
• 12 Obsidian Shard
• 90 Thermocatalytic Reagent
• 200 Dragonite Ore
• 200 Empyreal Fragment
• 320 Wool Scrap
• 160 Cotton Scrap
• 320 Linen Scrap
• 11 Glob of Ectoplasm
• 2400 Silk Scrap
• 120 Thin Leather Section
• 60 Coarse Leather Section
• 120 Rugged Leather Section
• 600 Thick Leather Section

Total cost 43g 67s 66c

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Morbach%27s_Footwear

• 245 Spool of Gossamer Thread
• 20 Pile of Crystalline Dust
• 5 Glob of Dark Matter
• 1 Dire Intricate Gossamer Insignia
• 1 Augur's Stone
• 200 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
• 12 Obsidian Shard
• 110 Thermocatalytic Reagent
• 200 Dragonite Ore
• 200 Empyreal Fragment
• 200 Wool Scrap
• 100 Cotton Scrap
• 200 Linen Scrap
• 10 Glob of Ectoplasm
• 200 Thin Leather Section
• 100 Coarse Leather Section
• 200 Rugged Leather Section
• 1500 Silk Scrap
• 1000 Thick Leather Section

Total cost 43g 14s 48c

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Morbach%27s_Cloth_Breather

• 245 Spool of Gossamer Thread
• 20 Pile of Crystalline Dust
• 5 Glob of Dark Matter
• 1 Dire Intricate Gossamer Insignia
• 1 Augur's Stone
• 200 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
• 12 Obsidian Shard
• 100 Thermocatalytic Reagent
• 200 Dragonite Ore
• 200 Empyreal Fragment
• 200 Wool Scrap
• 100 Cotton Scrap
• 200 Linen Scrap
• 9 Glob of Ectoplasm
• 160 Thin Leather Section
• 80 Coarse Leather Section
• 160 Rugged Leather Section
• 1500 Silk Scrap
• 800 Thick Leather Section

Total cost 38g 41s 00c

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_of_Grenth

• 50 Icy Runestone
• 10 Glacial Lodestone
• 1 Augur's Stone
• 600 Wool Scrap
• 300 Cotton Scrap
• 600 Linen Scrap
• 15 Glob of Ectoplasm
• 375 Spool of Gossamer Thread
• 500 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
• 30 Obsidian Shard
• 150 Thermocatalytic Reagent
• 500 Dragonite Ore
• 500 Empyreal Fragment
• 4500 Silk Scrap

Total cost 102g 98s 65c

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mathilde%27s_weapons

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mathilde%27s_Wand

• 20 Pile of Crystalline Dust
• 360 Thermocatalytic Reagent
• 10 Glob of Dark Matter
• 1 Dire Orichalcum Imbued Inscription
• 1 Augur's Stone
• 500 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
• 30 Obsidian Shard
• 500 Dragonite Ore
• 500 Empyreal Fragment
• 320 Soft Wood Log
• 240 Seasoned Wood Log
• 480 Hard Wood Log
• 11 Glob of Ectoplasm
• 1200 Elder Wood Log
• 270 Iron Ore
• 30 Lump of Coal
• 120 Platinum Ore
• 60 Lump of Primordium
• 300 Mithril Ore

Total cost 50g 23s 83c

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mathilde%27s_Herald

• 20 Pile of Crystalline Dust
• 350 Thermocatalytic Reagent
• 10 Glob of Dark Matter
• 1 Dire Orichalcum Imbued Inscription
• 1 Augur's Stone
• 500 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
• 30 Obsidian Shard
• 500 Dragonite Ore
• 500 Empyreal Fragment
• 200 Soft Wood Log
• 150 Seasoned Wood Log
• 300 Hard Wood Log
• 10 Glob of Ectoplasm
• 450 Iron Ore
• 50 Lump of Coal
• 200 Platinum Ore
• 100 Lump of Primordium
• 750 Elder Wood Log
• 500 Mithril Ore

Total cost 43g 90s 38c

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mathilde%27s_Spire

• 20 Pile of Crystalline Dust
• 370 Thermocatalytic Reagent
• 10 Glob of Dark Matter
• 1 Dire Orichalcum Imbued Inscription
• 1 Augur's Stone
• 500 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
• 30 Obsidian Shard
• 500 Dragonite Ore
• 500 Empyreal Fragment
• 360 Soft Wood Log
• 270 Seasoned Wood Log
• 540 Hard Wood Log
• 12 Glob of Ectoplasm
• 1350 Elder Wood Log
• 270 Iron Ore
• 30 Lump of Coal
• 120 Platinum Ore
• 60 Lump of Primordium
• 300 Mithril Ore

Total cost 54g 42s 32c

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mathilde%27s_Impaler

• 20 Pile of Crystalline Dust
• 360 Thermocatalytic Reagent
• 10 Glob of Dark Matter
• 1 Dire Orichalcum Imbued Inscription
• 1 Augur's Stone
• 500 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
• 30 Obsidian Shard
• 500 Dragonite Ore
• 500 Empyreal Fragment
• 540 Iron Ore
• 60 Lump of Coal
• 240 Platinum Ore
• 120 Lump of Primordium
• 11 Glob of Ectoplasm
• 200 Soft Wood Log
• 150 Seasoned Wood Log
• 300 Hard Wood Log
• 600 Mithril Ore
• 750 Elder Wood Log

Total cost 47g 17s 23c

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mathilde%27s_Trident

• 20 Pile of Crystalline Dust
• 350 Thermocatalytic Reagent
• 10 Glob of Dark Matter
• 1 Dire Orichalcum Imbued Inscription
• 1 Augur's Stone
• 500 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
• 30 Obsidian Shard
• 500 Dragonite Ore
• 500 Empyreal Fragment
• 450 Iron Ore
• 50 Lump of Coal
• 200 Platinum Ore
• 100 Lump of Primordium
• 10 Glob of Ectoplasm
• 200 Soft Wood Log
• 150 Seasoned Wood Log
• 300 Hard Wood Log
• 500 Mithril Ore
• 750 Elder Wood Log

Total cost 44g 03s 68c

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Pendant

• 260 WvW Skirmish Claim Tickets
• 250 Memories of Battle

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Band_(Infused)

• 350 WvW Skirmish Claim Tickets
• 250 Memories of Battle

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Band_(Infused)

• 350 WvW Skirmish Claim Tickets
• 250 Memories of Battle

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Talisman

• 175 WvW Skirmish Claim Tickets
• 250 Memories of Battlehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Talisman
• 175 WvW Skirmish Claim Tickets
• 250 Memories of Battle

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WvW_Skirmish_Claim_Ticket

• “The maximum number of WvW Skirmish Claim Tickets that can be obtained in one week, requiring 1450 pips: 365”

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion

• Would Take 22 Infusions to complete the build for this gear example…

There are two versions of Attribute WvW Infusions, Offensive and Defensive. Both types can be purchased from WvW Laurel Merchants for 5 Laurels PLUS 125 Badges of Honor, or from a Skirmish Supervisor for 45 WvW Skirmish Claim Ticket PLUS 20 Memories of Battle.

• So going the Laurel route it would cost 110 Laurels and 2,750 Badges of Honor.
• Going the WvW Skirmish Claim Ticket route it would cost 990 WvW Skirmish Claim Tickets and 440 Memories of Battle…

Not going to go into other build items like…

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Food
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Utility_item

And I’m not going to go into time spent working toward gear, time gates and grinds for items…But overall it's months of playing, using a bunch of currencies and around 1k gold to make this 1 gear set up...

This threads was just an example to highlight the costs of making gear, and how useless this effort could be if you are just wiped out quickly due to low health, and by extension, how near useless toughness can be in the equation. And it's not a surprise how stats are/have been working, nor is it a surprise that the game favors Damage builds, but something needs to be looked at please?

*I will have some edits...

Another "I want the Amulet thread?" Are they going to reimburse me for everything I spent including Xpacs?

Long and convoluted story short: You want a system like the pvp amulet system (but you aren't advocating for it?) so you don't have to spend time/effort to get gear for your characters?

@WraithOfStealth.1624 said:Long and convoluted story short: You want a system like the pvp amulet system (but you aren't advocating for it?) so you don't have to spend time/effort to get gear for your characters?

The only benefit in this world be for new players, such as the current influx of PvE'rs that don't want to work/grind for another specific mode set of gear...

Maybe we should have a gear rental NPC...

If you want something for nothing, just say so. It appears you want equipment just provided to you with no effort. If GW2 is about zero effort, what is the point in playing?

I like the amulet system for sPvP. It's a game mode that is very controlled. The maps are tiny with 5 players on each side, paired by a matchmaking system. It's all about trying to make it a fair fight.

WvW is a different animal. There's no such thing as a fair fight there and you never know what you're going to get. An amulet system could work, but the reasons for having it aren't as relevant in this game mode. Given that, I prefer the flexibility of a system that allows me to use any gear I want.

@"Loosmaster.8263" said:Another "I want the Amulet thread?" Are they going to reimburse me for everything I spent including Xpacs?

@"WraithOfStealth.1624" said:Long and convoluted story short: You want a system like the pvp amulet system (but you aren't advocating for it?) so you don't have to spend time/effort to get gear for your characters?

No. This post is about "an equal playing field" "mechanic" for WvW. Not specifically an amulet system as I've mention originally in the post...

@Whiteout.1975 said: "This is post is NOT advocating for specifically an Amulet System. Only a "Mechanic" that would achieve "an equal playing field" in regards to WvW's environment and respect to its Playerbase."

So as long as the mechanic achieves what I mention there. That would be the more healthy means of going about it.

I understand I typed a lot and don't blame anyone for missing... But now you know

Also, You have to stay relevant in your builds to keep up with the meta. Which 9/10 times forces you to change your gear/runes etc. to some degree if not completely... Nearly every time a Balence Patch hits. It already devalue's my efforts by compelling me to switch my builds to stay relevant enough to have fun. Same goes for others. This is also why like I also said before...

@"Whiteout.1975" said: "this is primarily, if not Exactly, why People who go for legendary gear... Go for legendary gear. So that they don't have to really "Worry" about being able to play in a manner that they may enjoy. However, still only for the characters that own it/can use it. With far less Stress and Worry."

@Loosmaster.8263 said:Maybe we should have a gear rental NPC...

This is could be really good idea. Thank You.

@"Whiteout.1975" said:

No. This post is about "an equal playing field" "mechanic" for WvW. Not specifically an amulet system as I've mention originally in the post...

@Whiteout.1975 said: "This is post is NOT advocating for specifically an Amulet System. Only a "Mechanic" that would achieve "an equal playing field" in regards to WvW's environment and respect to its Playerbase."

Equal playing field through gear is only achievable through the Amulet system or something very similar. So that is basically what you want.

Also, You have to stay relevant in your builds to keep up with the meta. Which 9/10 times forces you to change your gear/runes etc. to some degree if not completely... Nearly every time a Balence Patch hits. It already devalue's my efforts by compelling me to switch my builds to stay relevant enough to have fun. Same goes for others. This is also why like I also said before...

WvW meta doesn't change that much. Even if it did, ascended gear is easy to obtain and can swap stats through forge. Legendary gear is a Quality of Life investment, not mandatory.

@"Ni In.6578" said:If you want something for nothing, just say so. It appears you want equipment just provided to you with no effort. If GW2 is about zero effort, what is the point in playing?

No. That is not why I play WvW. I play specifically for that PvP interaction in WvW. As talked about in the post apart from just me. I want specific gear stats reliably. It doesn't have to look fancy or anything regarding the equipment. Also, equipment is not the only thing this game can (because PvP) have someone working for. I could be spending money on guild hall decorations, Better food, More siege, Legendary's still (Like some PvPer's still go for) etc. There is plenty of value elsewhere. Also, most gear can still be mixed/gambled in the mystic for whatever relates. Also, salvaged... There are plenty a things.

It looks silly for anyone to complain about balance when their not even on "an equal playing field" to begin with.

I want specific gear stats reliably

Then make them. What's so difficult about that? Your post indicates you want gear stats at no cost, aka the PvP amulet system. You want to be given the gear stats. No grind, no nothing. If that is what you need from GW2, perhaps it isn't the game for you as gear grind is part of it. And the gear grind in this game is incredibly minimal. There is no further step other than ANet giving free handouts.

@WraithOfStealth.1624 said:

@"Whiteout.1975" said:

No. This post is about "an equal playing field" "mechanic" for WvW. Not specifically an amulet system as I've mention originally in the post...

@Whiteout.1975 said: "This is post is NOT advocating for specifically an Amulet System. Only a "Mechanic" that would achieve "an equal playing field" in regards to WvW's environment and respect to its Playerbase."

Also, You have to stay relevant in your builds to keep up with the meta. Which 9/10 times forces you to change your gear/runes etc. to some degree if not completely... Nearly every time a Balence Patch hits. It already devalue's my efforts by compelling me to switch my builds to stay relevant enough to have fun. Same goes for others. This is also why like I also said before...

Opinions aside for the moment... Let me ask you simply:

Do you want to be on "an equal playing field" for balance. Yes or No? And why?

No class should be equal. A class should have it's strengths and weaknesses. The gear choice should be up to the player as many choose to play differently and there is no one gear-fits-all with regards to even a specific play type for a class.

@Ni In.6578 said:No class should be equal. A class should have it's strengths and weaknesses. The gear choice should be up to the player as many choose to play differently and there is no one gear-fits-all with regards to even a specific play type for a class.

Well I was trying to answer your previous reply... But this will do. I agree with you here... so what's the issue?

@"Whiteout.1975" said:

Do you want to be on "an equal playing field" for balance. Yes or No? And why?

Balance can never be 100% equal, so no i guess.

Everyone has equal opportunity to get gear however. I prefer build diversity over equal stat access, which is why i play WvW instead of PvP.If we were forced to use specific stat combinations i'd quit the game honestly. The balance i desire limits extremes. Tone down over-performing builds, make under-performing builds at least semi-viable. Rarely if ever, are stats/gear the issue.

This theory is false because it relies on the false assumption that sPvP is balanced or that an equal playing field has anything to do with sPvP.You can't take a design manifesto for granted and ignore the realities of the game.I would argue that sPvP is as unbalanced as it is partly because of the Amulet system and how inflexible it is.WvW is way more balanced gear wise,exotics are extremely easy to get and you can do just fine with them and ascended gear is still easy to acquire.The gear system in WvW and PvE is also way more fun to get involved with as it adds a minimal sense of progression-an important aspect of RPGs- without even coming close to being as oppressive and obligatory as it is in proper gear grinders and gear treadmill games.PvP should go away with the Amulet system instead and allow us to play with our normal gear.It would be noticeably more balanced and certainly more fun.

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:I like the amulet system for sPvP. It's a game mode that is very controlled. The maps are tiny with 5 players on each side, paired by a matchmaking system. It's all about trying to make it a fair fight.

WvW is a different animal. There's no such thing as a fair fight there and you never know what you're going to get. An amulet system could work, but the reasons for having it aren't as relevant in this game mode. Given that, I prefer the flexibility of a system that allows me to use any gear I want.

Right, it's a different environment. So they are trying Alliances (hopefully before I'm dead) for this environment. Alliances are a mechanic that attempt's to establish "an equal playing field" regarding numbers. The thing is people care about balance in it's entirety. Not just balance between number's.

So have a "mechanic" with that "flexabily" :)

I play in full exotic and never have I blamed losing a fight because they got better gear than me.

@WraithOfStealth.1624 said:

@"Whiteout.1975" said:

Do you want to be on "an equal playing field" for balance. Yes or No? And why?

Then balance will always be more of a joke before it's actually carried out sadly.

I love build diversity as well :) The important thing is that gear has a say in the outcome. That's why people wear it... And that why we have a place like metabattle to keep up with it. I would be perfectly happy if they offered the same flexibility under this "mechanic". They could honestly have something very similar to the Hero Panel equipment section and with a similar flexibility for equipping stated gear.

@"Aenaos.8160" said:This theory is false because it relies on the false assumption that sPvP is balanced or that an equal playing field has anything to do with sPvP.You can't take a design manifesto for granted and ignore the realities of the game.I would argue that sPvP is as unbalanced as it is partly because of the Amulet system and how inflexible it is.WvW is way more balanced gear wise,exotics are extremely easy to get and you can do just fine with them and ascended gear is still easy to acquire.The gear system in WvW and PvE is also way more fun to get involved with as it adds a minimal sense of progression-an important aspect of RPGs- without even coming close to being as oppressive and obligatory as it is in proper gear grinders and gear treadmill games.PvP should go away with the Amulet system instead and allow us to play with our normal gear.It would be noticeably more balanced and certainly more fun.

Actually, that's not the theory here. I don't think PvP is balanced... Though, I do think it's more balanced in other ways... Sticking to "an equal playing field". It's about the opportunity that offers "flexibility" to play, under "an equal playing field". An being able "experience" the game to a higher degree; by not being anywhere near limited as now.

I agree. I think WvW is more balanced in gear stat flexibility. Which I'm not against.

Yea, I'm fine with PvE going about it's business, but I'm talking WvW. "WvW is first and foremost, a Player vs. Player game-mode."... I mention this in my post with a link. When I go into WvW... that is what I go in there to do. Nothing else really. That's my focus and the focus of WvW. Aside from that. In regards to other games, you're right overall, but better doesn't mean ideal.

The "flexibility" can be fun. The grind not so much. You have plenty of PvE for that.

@"Whiteout.1975" said:(The following is my 2nd Problem with WvW out of my Top 5) (Also, sorry for the length, but felt each part is necessary)

Gear Influences Experience

You know, one thing I really tend to love about games in general... Are the piece's it takes to play them. Now, these of coarse are important, because they Strongly influence mine, yours or anyone's Experience playing the game; outside of just pure skill. Which can ether elicit a Positive or Negative (somewhere in that spectrum) feeling/understanding regarding games. This outcome can easily occur when those pieces are coupled with those various skill sets that us Players, more uniquely possess. As well as our (as Players) processes in the experience's around those pieces (like how to get those pieces). Not just skill alone.However, I want to talk about the in game pieces. More specifically... Gear.Now, how much influence can these various pieces of "Gear" offer? Depends. It really depends on how well the Gear is balanced. Alongside how well the things (like Professions) are being influenced, by Gear, are balanced. Feeding ultimately into each of our own individual experiences.This is important because our "experiences" are how we directly value our time playing the game. Is the experience Good, Bad or somewhere in between?

However, that's Not actually the kinds of balance I wish to talk about here. No... Instead, what I wish to talk about is another balance. Related to Gear and overall balance. I would like to call this..."The Balance of Reasonable Opportunity". Otherwise known as "An Equal Playing Field" (you'll see). That is also in Strong relation to Gear, but involving a focus on "Gear Stats". Including the opportunities it provides towards better ("Good") experiences. Basically, how we go about obtaining our desired Gear Stats. Across our "x" amount of characters. And the Impact that process has, without a shadow of a doubt, onto overall WvW Balance. Thus, again, ultimately "into each of our own individual experiences". Again asking the question we always ask ourselves... "Is the experience Good, Bad or somewhere in between?"

Well, the answer to that question is more or less unique. Firstly, are all of our experiences in obtaining our desired gear stats the same? No, obviously not. If I want to play 7 of the 9 professions (with desired builds) vs. someone who only wants to 2 of the 9. Guess what? I am going to have the experience of having to grind (aka Work...) harder. Than that other player. Simply because I want to try to have fun playing more builds on professions. And that's 1 example. Before we could go into the next extreme. That is, having at least a couple or more viable builds per profession. However you get the point. So the fact of the matter is... The Players that wish to experience/enjoy the game further, on builds. Quite literally, have to pay an absurd amount (aside from time spent), just to be able to experience it.Now initially, this sounds a bit weird and really just counterproductive by limiting that experience. Though, the grind has an end at least... Right? Yes, of course... Legendary's. However, is it Reasonable? That's a BIG "NO". Not for this reason. Why? Simply because it turns Legendary's into a Complete (VERY EXPENSIVE/Time Gated) "MUST HAVE" to play WvW "Stat Worry Free". And to have to do that across "x" professions/builds just to be able to experience WvW "Stat Worry Free" (At least as close we can currently get to it)... is pure insanity & Imbalanced. This is in part, what can make it harder for players to become accustomed to WvW. They have to "Worry" about their experience. The more they wish to explore it. Leading to other experience's (like fights involving overall balance) that they don't even know if they'll even enjoy. And this is primarily, if not Exactly, why People who go for legendary gear... Go for legendary gear. So that they don't have to really "Worry" about being able to play in a manner that they may enjoy. However, still only for the characters that own it/can use it. With far less Stress and Worry. (@Anet, please try to take that near continuous toxic "Worry" away)That said, I'm going to prove all this further with a quote from a link. That will recognize all this and more...

"An Equal Playing Field"

The Link https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Structured_PvP. The Quote is from the "Gear and builds" section reads as follows:

"The attributes, runes, and sigils from a character's PvE equipment are not used in structured PvP maps. Instead, equipment attributes are normalized, and players select a rune set, a sigil set, a PvP-specific amulet, and a set of specializations in the PvP Build panel. This build is maintained separately from the player's normal PvE or WvW build, and is automatically applied whenever a character enters the structured PvP lobby map. This mechanic allows players to be on an equal playing field with the same attributes, skills, and equipment options as other players. Players need to equip chest, legs and foot armor to achieve the base armor value, but hands, shoulders and head may be ignored."

I went ahead and put the main take away there in bold. Which again states:

• "This mechanic allows players to be on an equal playing field with the same attributes, skills, and equipment options as other players".

So the Fact is... WvW does NOT have such a considerate "mechanic". Therefore, we are by no means considered on an "equal playing field", from the moment you or we step into WvW. And every time after. So the next time you or anyone else has any feelings towards the "overall balance" ... Remember, you/I/they weren't even on "an equal playing field" to begin with.And that goes beyond being outnumbered or vice versa.

More Justification as to why this is important... Another Link and another Quote...

"WvW is first and foremost, a Player vs. Player game-mode"

This time, taking a quote from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World from under the "Combat" sub-section within the "Mechanics" section reads as follows:

• "WvW is first and foremost, a Player vs. Player game-mode. You are rewarded with both loot and Points-Per-Kill (PPK) for killing enemy players."

"First and foremost"... WvW is about the Combat. That Player vs. Player interaction. @Anet, you trivialize that Greatly, by disregarding "an equal playing field" mechanic. As previously discussed. WvW isn't about the Gear Stat Grind... Never was. Again, it's about that Player vs. Player interaction... "First and foremost".

Lastly, for clarity...

• This is post is NOT advocating for specifically an Amulet System. Only a "Mechanic" that would achieve "an equal playing field" in regards to WvW's environment and respect to its Playerbase. Ideas are of coarse welcome.
• Legendary's: This post is NOT meant to undermine efforts towards Legendary's. I believe that there are other mean's (ideas) in which Legendary's could still be very beneficial to players in WvW. Reminder: PvP Players got Legendary's well and long before WvW Players ever did... Yet they cannot make good use of it in PvP because of that environment. Though, I'm willing and would like to hear discussions/idea's around this.
• Economical Impact: Is Not limited to Gear and operates (considering supply/demand) primarily on a "potential to buy/sell" Not a "guaranteed to buy/sell". So it would seem appropriate to discuss where gold could go still... As it could go places now. Also, the Impact (if any) PvP has on the Economy already... Since that is a mode that already bypasses the need for most gear and higher tier gear as is. And to what degree @Anet considers the economy to be bad. Compared to whatever degree (good or bad) it is now. So, by all means... Discuss.
• This post is NOT to undermine any work @Anet has done. Once upon a time there were crafting stations, certain land masses, place-able cannons, no reward tracks etc. that shaped WvW... Now, things are different in (what should be) an effort to strive for better. The "strive" and effort in this post is no different.
• This post IS about the Importance of the Player vs. Player aspect of WvW "First and foremost". And the Lack of "An Equal Playing Field" that trivializes the Balance around it.

To conclude. Firstly, sorry about the length. Tried to make it as short as possible. Secondly, @Anet... Please, in the name of all that is good. Implement "an equal playing field" mechanic in WvW... So that people can more significantly and meaningfully experience what is supposed to be WvW's main Element... The Player vs. Player Combat.

Thank You, for taking the time to read.

P.S. Just like "Alliances" are a "WvW" related attempt at "an equal playing field" regarding numbers. Same should go for the Gear involved in that PvP interaction.

where is the thumbs down icon?

@Xtinct.7031 said:where is the thumbs down icon?

Lol... probably got lost with the constructive feedback.